User talk:Cutter20

Hi everyone, feel free to comment here.

Turnitin

Definitely go ahead and edit Turnitin. The great thing about Wikipedia is that everyone can edit. Just remember to verify your facts (include any sources in a references section at the bottom) and keep everything clean. If you have any more questions feel free to contact me via my talk page. I was new once too (not that long ago, to tell you the truth). Anabanana459 00:36, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, a truly "custom" paper is absolutely impossible for TurnItIn.com to detect because such a paper doesn't even exist until a customer orders it, and the freshly-written paper consists of 100% original text. If a paper already exists, it is NOT "custom." I suggest you consult with others and re-edit, because the info you have posted is incorrect. SarahTeach 20:23, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Just to clarify, Turnitin will not catch a "custom-written" paper the first time, but if such a paper were to be reused, the original paper is still in the database and will notify the teacher of matching text from another source. Thus Turnitin, unique for a student database which also earns it a lot of controversy, is able to catch reused papers instead of identifying authorship. There is no such thing as a service which can determine true authorship, only a way of identifying matching text from other sources. Cutter20 04:28, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here . . . . If you really think about it, TurnItIn.com is probably the king of all plagiarists and copyright infringers. Who grants TurnItIn.com the legal consent to publish the custom-written papers that originate from online companies and are not posted in the public domain by the company? The only people who could legally transfer copyright to Turnitin.com are the owners of the companies that created the papers, as the copywrite of each paper belongs solely to the company that created it, not to the customer who paid for it. The customer has absolutely no legal right to transfer copyright. TurnItIn.com and its ilk are basically cyber-vigilantes who steal on a grand scale and rake in millions of dollars in profit, but everyone looks the other way because TurnItIn.com is "good." Man, I feel like I just drove a stake into my own heart. SarahTeach 20:58, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Sarah thank you for your comments. If you do a search for Turnitin on Google News you will find dozens of articles now about schools that use the service to identify plagiarism. Between the Usage Agreement that the schools accept and the fact that Turnitin's numbers are growing every week, I do not think that there is any doubt that teachers are willing to embrace this technology to enforce school honor codes. Turnitin does not "publish" any custom-written papers, only identifies any matching text from these papers. Their privacy policy also spells out that teachers can not view matching sources submitted by other students without express permission of that student's teachers- it is as if one teacher asked another teacher to view a student paper, with that teacher's permission. There is no violation of copyright because archiving for this purpose appears to be fair use and at the full discretion of the schools and teachers. Please keep your comments coming. I disagree completely that Tunritin is a cyber vigilante. Clearly they exist only at the request of schools that demand such a service to combat paper mills. A highly negative view point based on common (and untrue) misconceptions clearly is not neutral for the purpose of Wikipedia. Cutter20 17:57, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Cutter, please reference both the introduction and conclusion of my previous post:

"I'm going to play the devil's advocate here . . . ."

"Man, I feel like I just drove a stake into my own heart."

Now that you understand my true viewpoint, I will reiterate that none of the following parties own the copyright of a paper written by an essay company:

customers - students - teachers - schools - Turnitin.com

The only party that owns the material is the essay company that wrote the material. The customer has absolutely no right to claim ownership of material that he/she did not write him/herself, whether or not he/she paid for an essay company's time and labor. The teacher/school has no right to grant permission to Turnitin.com, and Turnitin.com has no right to post, publish, reproduce, or otherwise profit from the material in any way.

SarahTeach 20:11, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't agree with your contention that custom writing organizations maintain a copyright on their papers. In fact, I think you are not a teacher, but rather the purveyor of a "custom writing" website. Try to prove me wrong without flaming my edit page. Cutter20 04:29, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Cutter20, thanks for the insult. It is clear that you do not understand the concept of tongue-in-cheek prose, so I'll clarify for you--yet again--in even more simple terms:

I was engaging you in antagonistic conversation, as you openly requested, playing the role of an essay company owner. Was that not obvious to everyone else? Do you not remember ASKING me to do so? Take a peak at my edit history. I've done nothing but REMOVE paper mill links throughout Wikipedia. You are unbelievable.

SarahTeach 21:45, PST, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

One small hint

I'm not going to even try to enter into this huge controversy on Turitin, but you can sign your posts by typing four tildes ("~" four times) to produce a link to your userpage and the date/time. This makes it a little easier for people to see your userpage. Anabanana459 05:17, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I have no desire to wage a flame war! All I know about SarahTeach is based on the writing style used and I must say that the style is very hot headed and not at all appropriate for someone who is really a teacher. SarahTeach please only use my page for constructive comments and not anger. Cutter20 08:24, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, from now on, please post in the appropriate section of the page. Secondly, are you saying that an educator isn't allowed to become upset when someone hurls insults and false accusations her way? Thirdly, you're not one of my students, this isn't a classroom, and none of my students call me a liar or insinuate that I am a lowlife. SarahTeach

Real teachers present themselves with maturity and rationality, and don't go flying off the handle. If you are a real teacher then I am really Mickey Mouse. Please do not use my talk page to pick fights or I will have to remove your comments. Thank you. Cutter20 17:46, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Pick fights? Cutter20, twelve times per year I receive a paycheck that proves you wrong. Also, I really think you should look at your previous posts. It is you who is insulting me left and right! Why? SarahTeach 22:12, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Pillars

4) Wikipedia follows the writers' rules of engagement: Respect your fellow Wikipedians even when you may not agree with them. Be civil. Avoid making personal attacks or sweeping generalizations. Stay cool when the editing gets hot; avoid lame edit wars by following the three-revert rule; remember that there are 948,520 articles on the English Wikipedia to work on and discuss. Act in good faith by never disrupting Wikipedia to illustrate a point, and assume the same of others in the absence of compelling evidence to the contrary. Don't use sockpuppets to do wrong or circumvent policy. Be open, welcoming, and inclusive.

-5 Pillars [1] Cutter20 08:18, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Please do not remove content from your talk page; other users will utilize this page as a way of seeing past discussion, and removing things can be seen as disruptive if you appear to be trying to hide something. You may wish to consider archiving old discussions; take a look at the move page if you would like to learn more about moving and renaming articles. Daniel Case 02:57, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. As a member of the Wikipedia community, I would like to remind you of Wikipedia's neutral-point-of-view policy for editors, which you appear to have violated at Turnitin. In the meantime, please be bold and continue contributing to Wikipedia. Thank you! Daniel Case 02:57, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the comments. I cleared my talk page because I was being spammed by another member of Wikipedia. I will try to move the comments instead.

With regards to the Turnitin page, please understand that I am not trying to violate the NPOV policy of Wikipedia. I am only trying to provide context to a controversial subject. The Wikipedia page on Turnitin is often vandalized. When I edit I am only trying to provide real facts. Cutter20 07:15, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment. I'm going to also try to tighten up the article some more and rewrite the intro. (I didn't tag it as such but it does have a slightly promotional tone to it at present). Daniel Case 15:25, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Archiving

I see you got everything back up here. See WP:ARCHIVE for how to archive a talk page, although I don't think you need to since it's hardly that big. Daniel Case 05:58, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Incessant Vandalism

I need your help. Please review my comments here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Turnitin#Vandalism_by_Pakistani_Paper_Mill_Owner

Thank you - 67.188.1.224 02:37, 19 December 2006 (UTC)