User talk:DagosNavy

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The Bugle: Issue CI, August 2014[edit]

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Sam Parnia[edit]

Thanks,

No one experienced an OBE in a research area, this Parnia has said. Keith is a nice guy but his statement about target identification failing is due only to the same problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.225.63.6 (talk) 21:12, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi, see discussion here. Though there is at least one source -an abstract- that actually supports your position, it fails WP:SOURCE. Regards--Darius (talk) 21:30, 18 August 2014 (UTC)


Adda[edit]

Hi. I saw that you recently moved page Adda (river) to Adda River over a redirect, giving the reason "Unneeded disambiguation". Just a minor note about that. Adda is a disambiguation page and thus disambiguation of the river is needed. It was parenthetically disambiguated Adda (river), which I believe may sometimes be the preferred form in Europe, and maybe other places too. Then sometimes putting the river first is preferred, e.g., River Adda (Wales). You converted that to Adda River which is naturally disambiguated. That form is generally preferred in the United States. How a title is disambiguated is generally reflected in the lead sentence:

  • The Adda is a river in North Italy -or-
  • The Adda River is in North Italy

Regards, Wbm1058 (talk) 02:43, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

That move was reverted. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) #Disambiguation:
  • Rivers, lakes and mountains often include the word River, Lake or Mount in the name; national conventions and idiom should be followed in this matter. For example, rivers in the UK and Ireland follow the pattern River Thames, while those in the United States follow Mississippi River. For many countries the additional word is used when needed for disambiguation purposes, but is otherwise omitted: compare Jade (river) or Achelous River (which require disambiguation) with Rhine (which does not). See also Wikipedia:WikiProject Rivers#Naming.
Thanks, Wbm1058 (talk) 18:06, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Template:Campaignbox 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine[edit]

Hello! Could you express your opinion about the organization of the Template:Campaignbox 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine, which provoked a little controversy these days (particularly in relation to the positioning of the "Russian military intervention")? If you wish to express an opinion, there is a discussion in the Talk Page of this template. Thank you! Mondolkiri1 (talk) 19:33, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CII, September 2014[edit]

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WikiProject Military history coordinator election[edit]

Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election, which will determine our coordinators for the next twelve months. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September! Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 22:06, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

General Roca and the Conquest of the Desert[edit]

You certainly know your Argentine history. I wonder if you can read this Wikipedia page in English please: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_the_Desert

Someone has stamped it as "Genocide of Indigenous peoples". I think this is a very impartial observation considering the head of the Indian warriors was taken alive and bestowed the rank of an Argentine Army Colonel. Also the Indian warriors were supplied with rifles and horses, meaning they weren't entirely poorly armed. Roca also freed thousands of women and their very young daughters that had been forced into sexual slavery, something that is ignored by those that maintain that it was a genocide when it was not.--Waterloosunset2004 (talk) 01:24, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

This issue has sparked a huge controversy between orthodox and revisionists here in Argentine since many decades ago. Both sides seem to forget that one of the few common goals of the warring parties in the Argentine civil wars since 1820 (to say the least) was to expand the country's southern frontier towards the Andes to the west and up to the Strait of Magellan to the south, no matter how many Mapuche, Ranquel or Tehuelche people would be killed in the process. Hypocrisy and croc tears were only a retroactive twenty-century view. "Genocide" was obviously a term coined by revisionists, but unheard of until the 1980s. IMHO, they tried to drawn a parallel between what they call the "Roca's massacre" and the 1970s dirty war, which supposed the physical annihilation of the enemy. The aim of the 1879 campaign, however, was to conquest the land, not to exterminate its inhabitants. I think a mention of a number of revisionist opinions on the subject is enough. I am also for moving the two last paragraphs of the lede to a section apart, leaving only a few words explaining the two positions.
The case against ethnic cleansing is harder to defend. After being military defeated, the indigenous peoples of the Pampas and the Patagonia were forcibly moved from their ancestral domains, deprived of their nomadic way of life and press into serfdom in the new landowners' ranchs. Europeans colonies were established in the former aboriginal realm, while the native culture was despised and largely forgotten by the later generations. "Ethnic cleansing" is one of the items under the scope of the template "Genocide of Indigenous peoples", thus from my own point of view its inclusion in the article is entirely justified.
It's true that a number of "Indian" chiefs (I remember right now Catriel and Namuncurá) were given military ranks inside the Argentine Army, but these people had always considered themselves indios argentinos (Argentine Indians), loyals to the Argentine government (in contrast with those who lived or were born in Chile and stole cattle in the Pampas). This kind of interaction was not unusual; a couple of decades earlier a unitarian army's officer, Manuel Baigorria, ended up as a Ranquel chieftain at the time of Rosas. In the case of chieftain Pincén, at the time of his capture in 1878 he still preserved a flag of the Argentine Confederation, a gift from Rosas in recognition for his assistance during a previous campaign (1833-34).--Darius 02:57, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Name changes of various articles[edit]

This point is also being discussed at Talk:Chicago Race Riot of 1919#Requested move 23 October 2014.
  • The change of names of these articles make no English sense. It is correct English that a 'proper name' is capitalized and a 'proper name' is the name of a particular person, place of event. These articles are about, and thus the names must so reflect, that these are names of a particular events. These name changes need to be reverted. Thank you. Hmains (talk) 02:43, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
  • The same problem exists with your change to Illinois Coal wars that also needs to be reverted. Hmains (talk) 03:02, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
"War", "incident", "riot", "massacre", et alia are not proper names, as far as I know. The bulk of the articles in WP follows this pattern.--Darius (talk) 11:49, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Where are you obtaining these wrong ideas in the Manual of Style? And you should not be making any more such changes until this is resolved by consensus. Hmains (talk) 02:55, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Since when in the English language are these changes correct. A 'proper name' is the name of a particular person. place. or event. For proper names, correct English language capitalization is that each word in the proper name is capitalized except for little connection words like 'the', 'in', 'a' and so on. I am still waiting for the justification for these changes from the Manual of Style so that I can check it out. In the meantime, all these name changes are wrong and should not continue. Hmains (talk) 02:14, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
Darius, your edit summary on the moves of Springfield Race Riot of 1908, Cicero Race Riot of 1951, and Charleston Riot was "Rm capital per MoS." Thank you for the edit summaries. Can you please be more specific about what subsection within WP:MOS justifies these moves? Thank you. Hugh (talk) 05:13, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
Hi Hugh. Well, I concede that the right edit summary should have been "Rm capital per naming conventions", not MoS.
WP:NCCAPS is pretty clear about capitalization of titles: "Do not capitalize the second or subsequent words in an article title, unless the title is a proper noun. For multiword page titles, one should leave the second and subsequent words in lowercase unless the title phrase is a proper noun that would always occur capitalized, even in the middle of a sentence." At the end of the page, there is a section showing examples of correct capitalization. I think all the articles I renamed recently are what the guideline describes as "Multiword articles", this is, a title which combines proper names (like the places where the riots occurred) and common names ("race riot", "riot", "war", "massacre").--Darius (talk) 03:25, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the cite. That helps me understand. Certainly the 1993 Russian constitutional crisis multiword title example seems very close to the titles currently at issue. However, the lead paragraph of WP:Naming conventions (capitalization) includes the exception "unless the title phrase is a proper noun that would always occur capitalized" which I read to exhort us to consult reliable sources as to whether the subject of the article is a thing with a proper name, like World War I. What do you think? Hugh (talk) 06:15, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
It's OK for me, we should search what reliable sources say about these issues. IMHO, however, besides literature works, book titles and movies, there is little chance for an event to be an exception to multiword phrases. The example you provide is a good one, but it applies only to subjects widely known and coined by scholars (we can add "Spanish Civil War", "Wall Street Crash of 1929" or "Cold War"). Less well-known but equally important topics like the Waco siege or the 1969 Northern Ireland riots follow the multiword rule. Regards.--Darius (talk) 16:16, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
I agree you were somewhat shall we say fastidious in keeping a tidy talk page in the middle of an ongoing discussion of article-space with fellow editors. Why did you not respond on the article talk page? Hugh (talk) 02:20, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
We accommodated you by coming to your talk page to discuss multiple article-space edits of yours with you after you chose not to respond on article talk. This is your talk page but please defer editing this discussion until we achieve some resolution. Thank you. Hugh (talk) 05:08, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
OK, no problem.--Darius (talk) 12:41, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
"It is also clear from the content of Know-Nothing Riot that particular riots are being discussed, not riots in general". Good point, but instead of breaking WP:NCCAPS by capitalizing common nouns, it would be more wise to have the year of the event attached to the title.
"X is capitalized in the references provided in the article". No matter how many sources capitalize common names, Wikipedia has specific naming conventions (read citation above), and the only phrases that can be treated as proper names are books' titles, artistic works and movies. The only exceptions could be notable historic events widely known by their capitalized form ("French Revolution", "Paris Commune", as Hugh mentioned "World War I" or "Sicilian Vespers"), not minor, local incidents.--Darius (talk) 04:16, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
"No matter how many sources capitalize common names, Wikipedia has specific naming conventions..." All the specific naming conventions in WP:NCCAPS occur after noting the exception of proper names. The exception is mention in the lede sentence of WP:NCCAPS and clarified in the second sentence. If a thing has a name we are supposed to use that name for the title of its article. Hugh (talk) 04:51, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
We should request then the opinion of an administratror or something like that in order to establish if local issues such as race riots are or not an exception to the rule.--Darius (talk) 12:54, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
"local issue" May I ask, what is your basis for bringing this local dimension into our discussion? I find no reference to this local criteria in WP:NCCAPS. All of the recent moves at issue here are specific events at specific places and times. Are you positing a category of "local" events which cannot have proper names? To me the issue of local is more related to whether a topic is notable. Are you arguing that the topics of the articles you renamed are not notable because they are local? Hugh (talk) 17:56, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Iam not arguing nor asserting anything, I simply said that we should request a third-part opinion about what is the rule and what the exception.--Darius (talk) 21:51, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
"widely known" Preponderance of reliable sources is exactly what widely known means on Wikipedia. Hugh (talk) 04:51, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
What made an issue widely known to the point of becoming a proper name is not mere reliable sources, but the scholars' opinion, who focus particularly on major historic events, not minor ones.--Darius (talk) 12:53, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
"...with Ruby Murders, a particular set of murders is being discussed not all murders that have occurred in the town of Ruby..." Thank you for the reply. This post helped me understand. I think we should be careful not to run afoul of WP:NOR by naming things that do not have names, but if a thing has a name we should use that name as the title of its article. Hugh (talk) 17:35, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
"The Lager Beer Riot, Springfield Race Riot of 1908, Chicago Race Riot of 1919 Lombard Street Riot, Hough Riots, Glenville Shootout, and Gwangju Uprising are capitalized in the references provided in their articles. Philadelphia Election Riot is capitalized in the reference..." Hmains, thank you for your time on this issue and for your research and post. Darius, you posted "we should search what reliable sources say about these issues." A fellow editor has taken the time to investigate RS and share the findings. We should respect that. My understanding is this is determinative. Can you please respond to Hmains' review of RS? Thank you. Hugh (talk) 18:08, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
We should rely on the good faith of Hmains, as himself acknowledged in his original post. This fails WP:V. Furthermore, although the titles of the cited references are capitalized (see the articles you mentioned above), remember that book's titles in English are always treated as proper nouns, here in Wikipedia and elsewhere. I insist, Iam for a request for comment.--Darius (talk) 21:51, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
I find a mix of upper case and lower case in the online references in Chicago race riot of 1919. Significantly, Encyclopedia Britanica refers to the "Chicago Race Riot." The criteria for a proper noun in WP:NCCAPS is very strong: "...a proper noun that would always occur capitalized..." (emphasis added). Hugh (talk) 06:50, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Again I am disappointed to see continued deletes of comments from your talk page in the course of dialog with fellow editors, deletes falling disproportionately on one side of this disagreement. Hugh (talk) 17:43, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
Hi. There is a current request for comment here. If the conclusions are that all those titles are proper nouns, feel free to revert my changes, I will not oppose that, but I think that this discussion on my talk page is finished. Thank you.--Darius (talk) 17:54, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Chicago Race riot of 1919‎[edit]

Please join our discussion at Talk:Chicago Race riot of 1919‎. Thank you! Hugh (talk) 03:50, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

MAS vs MS[edit]

Hello. Thanks for correcting my mistake, I had indeed confused the MAS and the MS. That episode was already cited in the proper article. --Italianhistorian88 (talk) 09:15, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi man, you're welcomed. Best Regards.--Darius (talk) 12:45, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CIII, October 2014, Redux[edit]

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Rivers renamed[edit]

Hi, I see you're renaming river articles again. I think we've had that discussion before, see for instance User talk:DagosNavy/Archive 3#Rivers in Slovakia and WP:NCRIVER. Also for rivers in Spain, "River" is not part of the commonly used name, so let's move these articles back to the "River"-less names. Markussep Talk 14:13, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi Markussep, yes, there was a previous discussion, but no consensus was reached as far as I know. However, after reading again WP:NCRIVER, I concur that these articles should be move back to their original form. I've already reverted my edit renaming the page on Manadero. Thank you for assuming good faith, not like another user who accused me of "disruptive editing". Best Regards.--Darius (talk) 15:54, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your positive response. Best regards. Markussep Talk 16:24, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
You're welcome, mate.--Darius (talk) 22:59, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CIV, November 2014[edit]

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Capitalization[edit]

DN, the case fixes that you started have provoked a bit of a shitform that I inherited. I've pinging everyone involved, as agreed at withdrawn proposal Talk:Watts Riots#Requested moves, but I think you got omitted from that list. So here's what's up.

open move discussions:

moved to lower case:

not moved to upper case:

In case you care. Dicklyon (talk) 23:17, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Dicklyon, sorry for starting all this mess, but WP:NCCAPS is crystal clear regarding capitalization. The only exceptions to the rule -besides book or movie titles- are some common nouns listed by MOS:CAPS, such as MOS:COMPASS, MOS:INSTITUTIONS and MOS:MILTERMS, among a few others. IMHO there is nothing to discuss here, although some users have overreacted to this issue. Best Regards.--Darius (talk) 13:50, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
I completely agree. When I started working case fixes in the area of labor strikes, riots, massacres, etc., I didn't realize that DagosNavy had already done some of the same ones, and had been reverted by a guy claiming to be sent by God, which stirred up a mess, attracted a couple of nuts and couple of anti-WP:MOS types, so it's being discussed. So far, all that have closed have held up the usual consensus that we follow MOS:CAPS and WP:NCCAPS, but as you can see, even though there is "nothing to discuss here", they keep at it. As part of withdrawing a big RM, I had agree to ping everyone involved, but DagosNavy's involvement was far enough back that I think I left him off the ping list. Dicklyon (talk) 16:16, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

DN, while I agree with your move here, it's likely to be reverted, as two of us already tried that recently. I didn't quite understand your edit summary: Rm capital from common name per User talk:Hmains. The first part makes sense, but I don't see anything supporting this on User talk:Hmains. Did I miss something? If you want to make progress, it would be better to participate in the discussions and requested moves about caps and WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS. Some of the ones linked above are still open. Dicklyon (talk) 02:14, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Dicklyon, first of all, the summary was an automated predictive option I clicked by mistake, it came from an early summary when I reverted one of many Hmains changes that challenged WP:NCCAPS. There is a thread on his talkpage, namely "Perry Race Riot", where you and another user expressed your disagreement with him about what is a proper name and what not.
On the other hand, it's pretty clear that 1) the term massacre is a common name and 2) that the sources you provided at Talk:Lawrence massacre are enough to keep the article's title in lower case. So I performed the change per WP:BOLD. Regards.--Darius (talk) 20:35, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CV, December 2014[edit]

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Orphaned non-free image File:ApacheDown2003.jpg[edit]

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Hi, Just wanted to say: let us keep going! —Pietadè (talk) 21:58, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi Pietade, thanks for your support!. Bussiness as usual on this weekend, though a Saturday evening with my children and an (expensive) night out has distracted me from editing just a couple of hours. Cheers!.--Darius (talk) 13:42, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi DagosNavy, added on today's page (etwiki DonB) a link to the article: On Ukraine battlefield, one act of mercy becomes an Internet meme. The act of mercy took place on 22 Jan., during tank battle. Perhaps it could illustrate the battle, 'cause, if you deem it appropriate to add this, where it (link) suits. As for me, added this in et article under today's date.
BBC has published a pretty nice "thing" on LGM today too (How Russia outfoxes its enemies). Some day nothing, some day plenty of "no-nothing"... —Pietadè (talk) 19:51, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi Pietade, thanks for your suggestion. Besides the poignant overtone in Chaban's story, I concur with you, the article has the potential to illustrate some aspects of the Donbass war, such as the presence of Russian military personnel in the militias' ranks or the fact that real tank battles are raging on between the Ukrainian and the rebel armies. I will add a brief line to the timeline today.
Interesting BBC article about the Russian "maskirovka". I think they're masters of deception at different scales, from the tactical level to the propaganda battlefield. What most impressed me during this war was their ability to cover-up their decisive intervention to avoid the collapse of the rebel republics during the summer. While the whole world was expecting a full-scale Russian invasion by April-May 2014...the actual invasion by stealth became almost unnoticed in late August -with the rebel forces under pressure on all fronts- when unmarked Russian forces crossed the border at Novoazovsk and Amvrosiivka, closing the trap on Ukrainian troops in Ilovaisk and saving the separatists from disaster.--Darius (talk) 02:51, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CVI, January 2015[edit]

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Your username[edit]

Can you tell me about your user name, please? BMK (talk) 02:23, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi, it was explained a long time ago. Please try here. Best Regards.--Darius (talk) 15:41, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks very much for that, I appreciate it. BMK (talk) 18:40, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CVII, February 2015[edit]

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Invitation[edit]

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Thank you, Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:08, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Hola[edit]

Was looking through my mail archive and found a copy of that map you were looking for me to create for the article on the South Georgia operation. I'd forgotten to be honest but its now well under way. Can I get some help with the translation?


VUELOS DE HELICOPTEROS 1. Primer vuelo. 2. Aterrizaje y escape primer vuelo. 3. Segundo vuelo. 4. Segunda vuelo recibe fuego. 5. Evasión y aterrizaje forzoso. 6. Evacuación de heridos con el ALOUETTE. 7. Patrulla de reconocimiento. 8. Posible campo minado. 9. Amet. GIUSTI obre fuego sobre el enemigo. 10. Comino de marcho Cpo. GlUSJI luego de lo rendición. 11. Viajes del ALOUTTE llevando al Gpo. Mor. 12. Reunión, marcha y entrega en posicion Gpo. Mor. 13. Posición enemiga.

Argentine HELICOPTER FLIGHTS 1. First Flight. 2. Landing and escape of the first flight. 3. Second flight. 4. Second flight is fired upon. 5. Evasion and emergency landing. 6. Evacuation of wounded with Alouette. 7. Reconnaissance Patrol 8. Possible minefield. 9. Amet- GIUSTI opens fire on the British position. 10. Approach route of Cpo. GlUSJI after the surrender. 11. Alouette flights leading to Gpo. Mor. 12. Rendezvous and delivery position Gpo. Mor. 13. enemy position.

I think we need to neutralise the tone of the text. Eg British position rather than enemy position. WCMemail 14:56, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi J., a pleasure as always! Well, I have to concede that your knowledge of Spanish is becoming than my knowledge of English ;).
I have almost forgot about the South Georgia's map, too (2009 or so). The only clarification to make is about point 9; Amet is the abbreviation of Ametralladora, machine gun in Spanish. In the same way Gpo. stands for Grupo, team in Spanish. "GIUSTI" is the surname of the officer in charge of one of the teams ("GlUSJI" is apparently a typo), and Mor. stands for "mortar team". All OK for the rest of the entries.--Darius (talk) 23:42, 13 March 2015 (UTC)


Still at it, some more to check. The English is not a literal translation I've tried to make it clearer - so would welcome some feedback.

1100: La Corbeta Guerrico ingresa a Bahía Cumberland. 1104: Decolo AI03. 1115: Informa AI03 posible lugar de desembarco. 1128: Decolo Pumo sin novedad 1g ola. 1135: Guerrico informa: Personal armado detrás del hospital. 1136: Se ordenó al Puma que orbile en proximidades Bahío Paraíso. Corbeta Guerrico listo o abrir fuego. 1140: Desemborro en lo zona del muelle de la l'olo. 1141: Se ordenó al Puma dirigirse al Paraíso. 1142: finalizó 19 penetración en Bohío Grytviken sin oposicion. 1147: Decoh Puma llevando Y ola con apoyo AI03. 1148: AI03 realizó T aproximación: - Tiro de mortero a proa AI03. - Puma recibe disparos - AI03 bajo fuego - Se intenta contestar fuego desde AI03 1150: Se ordeno a la Corbeta abrir fuego sobre el hospital. - Aterrizaje del Puma y AI03. 1155: Abre fuego con montaje de 20 mm. 1156: Abre fuego con montaje de 40 mm. 1159: Abre fuego con montaje de 100 mm 1200: Viro y sale a Mx. Vd. a efecto de disminuir tiempo bajo fuego. 1225: Se abre fuego sobre el hospital desde una posición favorable

1100: ARA Guerrico enters Cumberland Bay. 1104: Helicopter AI03 launched. 1115: AI03 reports possible landing place. 1128: Puma launched safely with 1st wave. 1135: Guerrico reports: armed personnel behind the hospital. 1136: Puma is ordered to orbit near Bahío Paraíso. ARA Guerrico reports ready to open fire. 1140: First wave disembarked in the dock area. 1141: Puma ordered to Bahío Paraíso. 1142: Penetration of the first wave into Grytviken unopposed. 1147: Puma launched with second wave supported by AI03. 1148: AI03 makes 2nd approach: - Mortar team dropped by A103. - Puma is fired upon - AI03 under fire - AI03 attempts to return fire 1150 ARA Guerrico is ordered to open fire on the hospital. - Puma emergency landing and AI03 lands. 1155: ARA Guerrico opens fire with 20mm mount. 1156: ARA Guerrico opens fire with 40mm mount. 1159: ARA Guerrico 0pens Fire-mounted 100 mm 1200: ARA Guerrico moves to extend range in order to reduce time under fire. 1225: ARA Guerrico opens fire on the hospital from a more favourable position.

And update on the first piece:

Explicación 1. Primer vuelo. 2. Aterrizaje y escape primer vuelo. 3. Segundo vuelo. 4. Segunda vuelo recibe fuego. 5. Evasión y aterrizaje forzoso. 6. Evacuación de heridos con el Alouette. 7. Patrulla de Reconocimiento argentino. 8. Posible campo minado. 9. Ametralladora GIUSTI abre fuego sobre la posición británica. 10. Camino de marcho Cpo. GlUSJI luego de lo rendición. 11. Viajes del ALOUTTE llevando al Gpo. Mor. 12. Reunión, marcha y entrega en posicion Gpo. Mor. 13. Posición británica.

Key 1. First Flight. 2. Landing and escape of the first flight. 3. Second flight. 4. Second flight is fired upon. 5. Evasion and emergency landing. 6. Evacuation of Argentine wounded by Alouette helicopter. 7. Argentine Reconnaissance Patrol 8. Possible minefield. 9. Machine Gun GIUSTI opens fire on the British position. 10. Road march by Group GIUSTI after the surrender. 11. Alouette flights leading to Group. Mor. 12. Rendezvous and delivery position Group Mor. 13. British position.

What do you think? WCMemail 12:16, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
A very good translation as usual, mate. Though the current pieces are fine, maybe a couple of tweaks are not so out of place.
  • First piece: point 9 could read "GIUSTI`s team opens machine gun fire on the British position". In point 10 you can use "GIUSTI`s team" instead of "Group GIUSTI". In points 11 and 12 "Group Mor." can be replaced plainly by "mortar team".
  • Second piece: 1104 hs: you can mention the type of helicopter (an Alouette, as you know). 1200 hs: entry should read "ARA Guerrico turns round at full speed in order to reduce time under fire." Correct spelling of ship's name is Bahía Paraíso. All OK for the rest. Good work.--Darius (talk) 00:24, 23 March 2015 (UTC)


PS I've been in touch with a Royal Marine who was on the British side, he's promised me some photos of Grytviken. WCMemail 12:17, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
We are in a some sort of crisis regarding PD pics from the 1982 war since a lot of photos were deleted from commons (these are apparently PD in Argentina, but not in USA), so any source of free images is welcome.--Darius (talk) 00:24, 23 March 2015 (UTC)


Update - uploaded first draft - still working on it. WCMemail 20:56, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Overview of Battle of Grytviken 3rd April 1982.jpg

Excellent! Hope it could fit into the infobox, a map like this is badly needed there.--Darius (talk) 00:24, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CVIII, March 2015[edit]

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ARA Cabo San Antonio missing pic[edit]

Hi, I noticed that in the past you provided an adequate image for the wikiarticle about this ship. It was deleted from Commons in Jun'14. Maybe you can add another image? Thanks, DPdH (talk) 12:56, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CIX, April 2015[edit]

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IP Edits[edit]

[1] Hi mate, I see our IP friend has come to your attention. He seems to have a couple of SPS websites that he is promoting. He's been adding them as External Links. WCMemail 19:17, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Well J., I am allergic to IPs, you known. I will keep a close eye on this one. Thanks.--Darius (talk) 22:44, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CX, May 2015[edit]

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Lively Family Massacre.[edit]

I am a descendant of the son who was away hunting. I may have additional information that I can provide. Shansel@hallestill.com. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:31C6:5210:51EA:FF7A:23A4:DFAC (talk) 00:38, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXI, June 2015[edit]

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Alferez Sobral[edit]

[2] Can I just check this edit with you, the previous description seemed a little strange. WCMemail 20:14, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

[3] Don't you just love it when people revert because they can and "its sourced", never mind any common sense. See [4]. Regards, WCMemail 20:38, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
Hi mate. You're right, common sense is hard to find sometimes in WP, specially if you deal with IPs (not the case). Well, we have here two separate issues: 1) the type of ship and 2) the operational deployment of the ship.
The type of ship, as designed by the US Navy in 1944, is without any serious doubt an ocean-going tug. As far as I know, the Argentine Navy made no major upgrades to the vessel to challenge the original design of the ship.
The operational deployment of the ship(s) -remember that several USN tugs were transferred to the ARA from 1960 to 1981, not only Alferez Sobral- was as general-purpose auxiliary vessels (rescue tasks, laying and maintenance of navigational buoys, submarine tenders, light transport et alia). This use led the Argentine Navy to classify them as avisos, following an old French definition which describe this kind of ship as "small boats designed to carry orders or despatches". The Argentine avisos are small, light armed liaison ships. They had nothing to do with WWII-era avisos such as the French Boungaville, the Portuguese Afonso de Albuquerque or the Italian Eritrea, all of them long-range gunboats heavily armed and designed to overseas service, correctly compared with modern sloops or corvettes.
In my opinion, the best way out is the lede of ARA Teniente Olivieri (A-2). It reads "The ARA Teniente Olivieri (A-2) is a fleet ocean tug in service at the Argentine Navy classified as aviso.", so we take account of both the type of ship and the operational service in the Argentine Navy. Best Regards.--Darius (talk) 01:03, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXII, July 2015[edit]

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Guerra de las Malvinas[edit]

Hola! Te escribo en español ya que sos argentino :) Quería decirte que estoy ordenando la categoría de la guerra en Commons porque hay mucho material suelto, sobre categorizado o sin categorizar. ¿Qué categorías me recomendas crear? Saludos! --Gastón Cuello (talk) 18:26, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Es buena idea! Por lo que ví (de lo que hay suelto ahora) hay muchas fotos de barcos y aviones del conflicto. Después hay de elementos como cascos y vestimentas. Después hay banderas, escudos, un acto de Cristina Kirchner, una foto de la Plaza de Mayo, etc. --Gastón Cuello (talk) 19:09, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXIII, August 2015[edit]

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"colonialist crime"[edit]

I am guessing you missed the part about local government, merchants, hording food, and a world war ... . A "colonialist crime" implies thaf it was all the responsibility of the small British population over there, and that is an extreme generalization that is not supported. But I digress. OR and opinion, lacking any sources, is grounds to revert BTW.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:31, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

"OR and opinion, lacking any sources, is grounds to revert BTW." We agree on what really matters here, an unsourced personal opinion should not stand in Wikipedia. But "no" is hardly a good description of this. The rest is, in your own words, a digression. Regards.--Darius (talk) 00:52, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 5 September[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue CXIV, September 2015[edit]

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WikiProject Military history coordinator election[edit]

Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 29 September. Yours, Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 05:20, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXV, October 2015[edit]

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Artist Renderings[edit]

Over here there is a discussion about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007#Artist%20Renderings Arbalest Mike (talk) 00:21, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

I was unaware of WP:AVIMOS, particularly the section dealing with images. Thanks for your enlightenment. Best Regards.--Darius (talk) 00:56, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Irish National Liberation Army page edit[edit]

Hello there, how are you?

May I ask why you re-edited my page of the INLA? The action added was correct there's many sources to the incident that happened on the 16th of June 1994 & was of the INLA's most well known operations/attacks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tdv123 (talkcontribs) 15:50, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi Tdv123, my sincere apologies, your edit was 100 percent right. I simply mistook the 1994 Shankill Road killings with the 1993 Shankill bombing, carried out by the Provisional IRA. Again, my apologies and happy editing!. Best Regards.--Darius (talk) 16:13, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXVI, November 2015[edit]

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ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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Nominations for the Military history WikiProject historian and newcomer of the year awards now open![edit]

On behalf of the Military history WikiProject's Coordinators, we would like to extend an invitation to nominate deserving editors for the 2015 Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year awards. The nomination period will run from 7 December to 23:59 13 December, with the election phase running from 14 December to 23:59 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:05, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

a message[edit]

1st Is everything ok? No KGB hunters on tail? besides, this site does not work on some "motors"

All OK, Pietade, just a case of "war tiredness", no fear of the KGB guys or girls ;). A recent published article (Operation Halmazag), another to come, and real life, of course, kept me quite busy these days. I promise to resume business as usual this weekend, mate.
No trouble found as far as I know with any WP tools, let me know if the problems persist. Best Regards.--Darius (talk) 21:25, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
An entry
Sorry for the delay, and Happy Christmas season! @Pietade:--Darius (talk) 23:55, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the best wishes and the same from here too!@DagosNavy:Pietadè (talk) 13:08, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Operation Madusa[edit]

I was wondering why 2-4 infantry ( Delta co and Alpha co) 10th mountain div was not cited in the article. I was there through the whole operation working with the Canadian army. If you need any info I would gladly elaborate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.162.27.174 (talk) 15:35, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

May be it is a case of mistaken identity, but I have only made one edit to that article, and it was not related to the participating forces. Best Regards.--Darius (talk) 18:13, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Article on Opelousas Massacre.[edit]

Thank you for the article on this little known massacre of African Americans. I just hope you would have used stronger language to describe some of the events. For example, where you wrote "scare tactics" it would have been more accurate to say "terror tactics". The negroes, in that era, were truly being terrified by the white supremacists, they weren't merely being scared. Additionally, the article says the southerners were unable to accept racial equality. A better way to say this would be that the "southerners were unwilling to accept racial equality". In books I have read on the subject, they swore not to, even when they knew that was what should have been done.

Hi there. My only edit on this page was to perform a redirect, giving wrong capitalization on the article's name. Please, try the page's historial to identify the involved editors or the talk page to point out your concerns. Best wishes.--Darius (talk) 21:54, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Reliable source?[edit]

You've been adding this source (Bertke, Donald A.; Kindell, Don; Smith, Gordon (2011). WORLD WAR II SEA WAR: FRANCE FALLS, BRITAIN STANDS ALONE: Day-to-Day Naval Actions from April 1940 through September 1940) and related books to a variety of articles. But as a self-published book, I doubt that it meets the WP:RS criteria. I also don't think that any of these gentlemen have any professional qualifications as naval historians.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 22:46, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

YesY Replaced for more reliable sources here and here. Thank you for the tip, regards.--Darius (talk) 14:19, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Excellent, although I think you've used other books by the same guy(s) in other articles as well. No need to hunt them down, we can just change them out for more reliable sources as we find them.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 16:51, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Adding material to GA articles[edit]

When adding material to GA-level articles like HMS Gallant, please conform to the existing formats for both citation and the bibliography.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 17:15, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

YesY Done (see here).--Darius (talk) 17:24, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 22:26, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXVIII, January 2016[edit]

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Sobre River Plate[edit]

Hola, vi que revertiste una edición mía sobre el equipo de River Plate, del cual sé que sos hincha. Por favor, te pido que antes de revertir, leas atentamente QUE cambios hago en la página, porque el ser hincha de Boca no me invalidó jamás para editar la página de River con la mayor objetividad posible.

Lo que hice fue remover párrafos redundantes (donde hablaba de los 36 títulos de liga, por caso), sin intención de remover textos ni menos aún fuentes confiables. Quizás fue una omisión mía involuntaria. Sí puedo decirte que editaré o revertiré cualquier edición (como las que está haciendo un IP anónimo seguramente venido de la Wiki en español) que NO considere los títulos pre-1931, tema del cual se ha discutido largo y tendido, y se sabe bien, son oficiales y válidos.

En ese caso, hay una cuestión de discusión de café antes que enciclopedística, donde muchos hinchas de River se niegan a aceptar los 6 títulos obtenidos por Boca en aquel período, cuestionando su validez. Pero eso ya es un tema aparte, sí puedo decirte que si tenés alguna duda o discrepancia conmigo, me lo hagas saber en mi talk page y con gusto te responderé. Y vuelvo a dejar en claro, en donde no "transaré" es en contar sólo "una parte de la historia", como pasa en muchas discusiones futboleras con hinchas que sólo saben contar desde 1931 en adelante. En eso creo que estamos de acuerdo.

PD: Estos fueron los dos últimos edits que hice en el artículo: (1) y (2). Creo haber utilizado un punto de vista bastante neutral sobre la cantidad de títulos (y cómo denominarlos), como para merecer cualquier reversión. Pero estoy abierto al debate. - Fma12 (talk) 15:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

@Fma12:Hola Fma12. Si, no puedo negar mi gran simpatía por el club de Núñez, aunque por una cuestón familiar soy en realidad hincha de otro equipo. Te aclaro que aunque es verdad que globalmente River NO es el equipo más exitoso de Argentina, el párrafo en cuestión y las fuentes que lo sostienen se referían a títulos del campeonato de Primera División, por eso revertí tu edición. Concuerdo si en que había una línea redundante (sobre el noveno puesto histórico), por eso la eliminé.
En lo personal no tengo problema con los títulos de la era amateur, estoy de acuerdo con vos, eran títulos de Liga o Primera División totalmente válidos. Igualmente quiero recordarte que, aunque es válido sumarlos, hay que dejar en claro siempre que los torneos posteriores a 1931 son profesionales, la misma página de AFA hace esa distinción. Es el mismo caso que los títulos internacionales anteriores a la Copa Libertadores: la Conmebol aclaró que no los avala, pero que los acepta en cuanto hayan sido organizados por otra(s) Confederaciones o Asociaciones deportivas. Por lo tanto, deben también incluírse en la suma global de torneos oficiales (La Conmebol nunca eliminó la página donde se suman las copas rioplatenses, ni siquiera después de la aclaración), siempre destacando que los únicos títulos internacionales que avala la Confederación son los organizados por ésta a partir de 1960. En cuanto al IP anónimo no te preocupes, les tengo "alergia" y voy a apoyarte si el tipo se manda alguna edición tendenciosa, provocatiova o no-neutral.
P/D: Totalmente de acuerdo con tus dos últimas ediciones. me parece que mejoran la neutralidad del artículo. Buen trabajo. Saludos desde Mardel.--Darius (talk) 17:00, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Edición en Boca Juniors (IP)[edit]

El mismo IP que estuvo editando en la página de River como te comenté anteriormente, con puntos de vista parciales y poco sentido enciclopedístico, hizo este edit en la página History of Boca Juniors.

Esto es sólo para hacerte saber que no es la primera vez que me toca tratar con este tipo de hinchas argentinos que hacen de Wikipedia un foro de debate futbolero buscando (perdonando la expresión) "quién la tiene más larga", y cero criterio estadístico.

Saludos, Fma12 (talk) 16:51, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Si, fijate que yo casi ni edito en Wikipedia en castellano por eso; y ojo que no es solamente en el fútbol. Tenés gente que defiende sus opiniones peor que en un foro sobre temas como política, historia, ciencia, cocina, lo que te imagines. Acá también pasa, pero hay mucho mas control de los administradores y de los editores en general. Un abrazo.--Darius (talk) 17:04, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

total de titulos profesionales[edit]

Hola Dagos. Es correcto contabilizar el total de los titulos de River al inicio como lo hizo un usuario anterior, dando el total de titulos profesionales de River Plate (asi como otros clubes cuentan tambien los amateurs). La division entre profesionalismo y amateurismo es una realidad, y tanto la AFA como Conmebol y FIFA asi lo hacen, para no mezclar las cosas. Ambos periodos son igual de importantes, lo que no es correcto en mezclarlos. Considerando esto, River es el club mas ganador del profesionalismo con 57 titulos, como tambien figura en la pagina en espanol de river. Porque eliminaste esas sentencias? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jlcamenforte (talkcontribs) 19:13, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Hola. No creo que el usuario Fma12 esté mezclando nada, como tampoco creo haber eliminado ningún contenido del artículo, simplemente modifiqué su redacción. Si leés en esta misma página lo que hablamos con Fma12 sobre el tema, mi postura es que tampoco hay que mezclar amateurismo con profesionalismo, simplemente porque la mayoría de las fuentes confiables no lo hacen. Sin embargo, en los últimos años (por favor no me salgas con que es algo de los hinchas de Boca o Racing, eso a Wikipedia NO le interesa) otras fuentes suman torneos profesionales y amateurs, SIEMPRE aclarando la naturaleza de unos y de otros. Por lo tanto, acá en Wikipedia tenemos que conciliar las dos posturas. Como le dije a Fma12, es el mismo caso de los torneos internacionales; antes nadie registraba a las copas rioplatenses, que siempre fueron oficiales, porque no las organizaba Conmebol, pero en las últimas dos décadas las "redescubrieron" y muchas fuentes confiables las cuentan como títulos (incluyendo la propia Conmebol, que no las avala pero las acepta). En este caso también, la suma es válida, pero aclarando cuales son las copas anteriores a 1960 y cuales las auspiciadas por la Confederación.--Darius (talk) 19:58, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
Me permito opinar ya que el usuario User talk:Jlcamenforte me cita a mí. La AFA separa entre una era y otra, es cierto, pero también es cierto que la mayoría de fuentes confiables, ya suma los títulos de ambas épocas, para dar el total de títulos de cada club. Y esto que a algunos les parece algo novedoso, es merced a que un grupo de historiadores hicieron lo posible para que se le diera la importancia debida a los títulos desde la fundación de los clubes, no desde 1931. Nunca quise restarle ninguna importancia a los títulos de River, de hecho (y Darius lo sabe) yo mismo edité la página muchas veces, incluyendo el título 36 (Copa Campeonato de PD, oficializado por AFA en 2013) cuando la mayoría de sus hinchas aún decía "35", sin saber de esta oficialización o no contando el amateur de 1920.
Jamás modifiqué un edit que se refiera a que River es el más ganador de la era profesional; de hecho, yo mismo incluí la información que River es el más ganador de torneos domésticos (44) que el IP anónimo había revertido. A lo que sí me opongo es a la sentencia "River es el más ganador de Argentina", porque es ambigua, ya que decir eso puede también referirse a títulos internacionales. Y la otra oposición es que sólo se sumen titulos profesionales sin hacer mención a los amateurs. Eso significa ignorar una parte de la historia (nada menos que casi 40 años de fútbol, 1891-1930), y esto es Wikipedia, no un foro de discusión futbolera.
Y por último, le aclaro al amigo que el mismo IP estuvo editando tendenciosamente (y ahí pierde sentido de objetividad y respeto como usuario de mi parte) en la página de Boca, borrando información y previamente haciendo ediciones directamente vandálicas como ÉSTA (ver): Ahora le pregunto al usuario Jlcamenforte: ¿Puede dársele cierta entidad a un usuario que hace esas ediciones y luego me dice a mí que "mi fanatismo por Boca perjudica a River"? Todo dicho.
Saludos. Fma12 (talk) 13:13, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Otra vez River ....[edit]

Hola, cómo estás?

Sólo para ponerte al tanto que el muchacho que había revertido y armado tanto lío en el artículo de River, parece que ha vuelto a la carga con sus edits (bajo otra IP), pero incluyendo el mismo contenido tendencioso que sólo cuenta los títulos profesionales: Ver aquí. Te comento esto porque ya he retornado a la anterior versión, pero seguramente esto será revertido por el anónimo, y empezará otra guerra de ediciones de la cual no quiero participar: yo la hago corta, denuncio el IP y a otra cosa. De hecho, el artículo de Boca tuvieron que protegerlo sólo para usuarios registrados, porque no paraban de vandalizarlo (este mismo IP).

Si estás con un ratito de tiempo, date una vueltita por la página de River a ver cómo sigue el tema, lo ideal sería que un admin la proteja para que sólo autoconfirmados puedan editarla, y evitar este tipo de molestos. A los que le tengo tanta alergia como vos. Un abrazo, Fma12 (talk) 13:00, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Disculpá la demora, apenas si tengo un par de horas por día para editar. No soy administrador y últimamente no tengo contacto con ninguno de ellos, pero prometo monitorear la página y revertir cualquier intento por parte de usuarios IP o usuarios 'de rojo' (que se inscriben como usuarios para trollear), sino fijate el supuesto yanqui de abajo (igual ya lo borré) ;). Saludos,--Darius (talk) 23:32, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Antwerp Diamond heist[edit]

Hello there. Why capital "D"? Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:29, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi Anna, thanks for your suggestion, already fixed (link). Best regards.--Darius (talk) 23:17, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
Cheers. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:22, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi there[edit]

Made my last, or something like this, change to TofDB, for time being, and shall be "away", for some time; so, just letting You know.

Sad news, Pietade...hope you come back soon. As we say here in Argentina, un abrazo y suerte. Thanks for you hard work and best wishes.--Darius (talk) 23:53, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
Made a break, with XP, and inserted some text today.—Pietadè (talk) 14:56, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
As U can see, still partly "alive"—Toivo (talk) 07:21, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
Glad to see you back on track again, champ. Cheers! :)--Darius (talk) 11:39, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
"Eduard Basurin stated..."

Apparently, someone triggered, say, six times a pistol, and here we are, 6 violations...
So, let's try something other than TASS..., as for me, 'll try to insert, at first, maps... —Pietadè (talk) 18:31, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi Pietade, worried about you these days, nice to see that it's bussiness as usual :). Good point about Basurin, even a Ukrainian peasant shooting wildfowl counts as a ceasefire violation for him...XD.--Darius (talk) 23:58, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Some time ago wondered: if "they" state for every week at least 1,000 killed Ukrainians (according to elementary arithmetic the country should be soon deprived of inhabitants), count ricochets as violations, do they count echo of a ricochet (meaning, not only echo of a shooting) as a violation (this would be a triple violation: shooting, ricochet, and echo, or 4×violation (shooting, ricochet, and echoes of these two; the list can be expanded by counting every single instance of a bullet falling on ground, by the end of its journey;... military statistics)). —Pietadè (talk) 13:54, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi—Pietadè (talk) 19:38, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Don't worry mate, I will take care of the matter. Cheers!.--Darius (talk) 01:10, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks!—Pietadè (talk) 22:38, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
Nighty-night,"emphasized the Finnish obderver"Pietadè (talk) 01:11, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXIX, February 2016[edit]

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The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 14:14, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

FRIENDLY FIRE INCIDENT - RUSSO-JAPANESE WAR[edit]

I note you deleted the whole section about the Russo-Japanese War from List of friendly fire incidents because the British fishing boats initially fired on in the Dogger Bank Incident were not allies in the war. However, this deletion threw out a baby with the bathwater because in the confusion some Russian ships also fired upon each other - that could have stayed while the mention of the British boats could be edited to a token mention. (I thought my own details were minimal enough.)Cloptonson (talk) 22:51, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Cloptonson, good point and thanks for your suggestion. I think, however, that the notability of the incident is the Russian shelling of the British trawlers, not the FF instance. I've restored the section making clear that the incident was mainly a "fog of war" example, with the proper citation. Thanks again and cheers.--Darius (talk) 23:50, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Thank you.Cloptonson (talk) 20:12, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXX, March 2016[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue CXXI, April 2016[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue CXXII, May–June 2016[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue CXXIII, July 2016[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue CXXIV, August 2016[edit]

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