User talk:David Gerard

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This is a Wikipedia user talk page.

If you find this page on any site other than the English Wikipedia, you are viewing a mirror site. Be aware that the page may be outdated, and that I may have no personal affiliation with any site other than Wikipedia itself. The original page is located at .

Past talk: 2004 2005a 2005b 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015

Please put new stuff at the bottom, where I'll see it.

Nohat-logo-XI-big-text.png This user is one of the 400 most active English Wikipedians of all time.


Help decide the future of Wikimania[edit]

Wikimania logo with text.svg

The Wikimedia Foundation is currently running a consultation on the value and planning process of Wikimania, and is open until 18 January 2016. The goals are to (1) build a shared understanding of the value of Wikimania to help guide conference planning and evaluation, and (2) gather broad community input on what new form(s) Wikimania could take (starting in 2018).

After reviewing the consultation, we'd like to hear your feedback on on this survey.

In addition, feel free to share any personal experiences you have had at at a Wikimedia movement conference, including Wikimania. We plan to compile and share back outcomes from this consultation in February.

With thanks,

I JethroBT (WMF) (talk), from Community Resources 22:01, 12 January 2016 (UTC)


Regarding the use of primary sources, I think you are misunderstanding what these mean in the context of Wikipedia. I suggest you refer to the guidelines on Wikipedia sources. Best wishes, Tiddlypeep (talk) 23:12, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

I do know about advertising materials, and when the primary sources are to be distrusted on principle. You are literally putting up publicity materials from cryonics organisations, and that's two editors who have removed your attempts to do so so far - David Gerard (talk) 23:23, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
This is not a cryonics organization. It's a research network, non-profit. It showcases that cryonics has some scientific acceptance, which is why it is relevant. Tiddlypeep (talk) 23:45, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
It is a cryonics advocacy group, per its name. I've noted it on WP:FTN, in the quest for more eyeballs on the situation - David Gerard (talk) 23:47, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
You noted it with your own personal biases (calling it "advertising material"), but I could be mistaken about its use, so happy to seek out another opinion. Tiddlypeep (talk) 23:50, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
I have mentioned this issue in the article talk page following advice on WP:FTN. I look forward to further discussions. Tiddlypeep (talk) 11:41, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Question for regarding Natural News article[edit]

Hi are you an admin here? On the Natural News article my opinion is that the story about Adams being investigated for potential calls for violence against Monsanto is more relevant in the opening section than the story about sockpuppets, what's your take on that?-- (talk) 16:29, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Depends on third-party coverage really. Might look and opine later - David Gerard (talk) 19:45, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Transhumanist politics dispute resolution[edit]

Hello! I have made a dispute resolution request for the dispute about sources on the transhumanist politics page "too close to the subject". I hope that we can get this problem resolved! --Haptic Feedback (talk) 19:09, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Fourth round of statements are now up. Discussing the IEET sources. Please respond in 48 hrs if you won't be responding to this section. Cheers, Doctor Crazy in Room 102 of The Mental Asylum 03:35, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Cryonics links[edit]

Why is the open letter not a RS? In particular since it's a source in cryonics? Tiddlypeep (talk) 17:44, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Rolf Nelson already detailed the non-notability of the Open Letter on Cryonics at Talk:Cryonics#Cryonics_organizations, responding directly to you - David Gerard (talk) 21:36, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Towards a New Wikimania results[edit]

Wikimania logo with text.svg

Last December, I invited you to share your views on the value of Wikimedia conferences and the planning process of Wikimania. We have completed analysis of these results and have prepared this report summarizing your feedback and important changes for Wikimania starting in 2018 as an experiment. Feedback and comments are welcome at the discussion page. Thank you so much for your participation. I JethroBT (WMF), Community Resources, 22:47, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Shlivovitz listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]


An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Shlivovitz. Since you had some involvement with the Shlivovitz redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Si Trew (talk) 16:00, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Skyring and Head of State dispute[edit]

If you have time, could you help me understand a complex decision made in 2005 and what sort of decision or precedent it sets? Talk:Australian_head_of_state_dispute#AfD_continued_and_ArbCom. Thanks in advance. Travelmite (talk) 19:56, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Um, nothing. Arbcom didn't do indefinite rulings at that time at all, we limited stuff to one year - David Gerard (talk) 22:13, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Request to restore deleted page - Betty X[edit]

Betty X is an influential female musician, conceptual artist, and songwriter that first made her impact in Seattle during the 1990's. She has been described by Seattle publications as a "Dangerously sexy blend of poisonous and volatile apocalyptic-metal with sarcastic aggro female vocals." Betty X has become one of the most recognized names in conceptual art, post-apocalyptic rock - not just in Seattle, but in Austin and Los Angeles, as well. She continues to be a powerful influence for female singers/songwriters/artists/musicians and participates on many panel discussions and appearances along with Patti Quatro and others, in addition to her live performances and collaborations with such bands as Ministry and Pigface.

Betty X is currently gearing up to release her fifth solo album, which is being co-produced by the legendary Al Jourgensen of Ministry fame, confirming her presence as a current and relevant musician. This article supports the claim that Betty X has played with Ministry, [1], and removes any question of the claim's validity.

This article [2], as well as this book excerpt, [3], confirm and validate her work with Martin Atkins and Pigface: Tour Smart.

From her first band, Salon Betty, which performed with Alice In Chains and other influential Seattle bands, to being featured on the new Surgical Meth Machine (Al Jourgensen's new project) to be released April 15th on Nuclear Blast records, Betty X continues to be relevant in the music industry.

Betty X is affiliated with Salon Betty, Satan in High Heels, Ministry, Pigface, Sheep on Drugs, and Surgical Meth Machine. She has current websites and fan pages including [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]. It would be a detriment to the history of female artists and musicians, as well as the history of post-apocalyptic rock, music in Seattle, etc.

With all due respect, I am requesting that this page, which has been active for over 10 years, be fully restored. Any claims that were deemed to be without validation will be updated, as well as any other pertinent information. Not only does the removal of this page have an impact on booking agents, etc., to research Betty X, but it also hinders the education of younger generation conceptual artists, musicians, singers, and songwriters.Terivangogo (talk) 20:57, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


FYI DG this thread Wikipedia:Help desk#Deleted.2Fremoved article - Betty X has already answered this persons questions. I have directed the to WP:DRV as well. Cheers and enjoy your week. MarnetteD|Talk 21:07, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

The thing that really struck me was not just that I couldn't find "reliable" sources (ones passing WP:RS), I couldn't even find unreliable sources. No fan sites, no discussions of this purported influence. I can find better for almost anyone with five albums that weren't self-released. Her records aren't even on discogs, and I can routinely find the most obscure self-releases there if they were ever in physical form. I mean, that's amazing for someone of the level of influence and fame claimed by the original article and your writeup here. If she's "influential", there's literally no verifiable evidence of it - David Gerard (talk) 21:22, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Category:Anti-neo-Nazi activism has been nominated for discussion[edit]

Category:Anti-neo-Nazi activism, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. PanchoS (talk) 17:09, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

VisualEditor News #1—2016[edit]

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Whatamidoing (WMF) 17:46, 25 February 2016 (UTC)


Hello DG. A thread has been opened here Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#user:David Gerard. I though I better inform you about it since the OP hasn't. I hope that you enjoy the rest of your week in spite of this. MarnetteD|Talk 06:37, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Compromised account?[edit]

I mentioned you on that administrators noticeboard/i thingy. BrxBrx (talk) 07:13, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Ron Newman[edit]

A tag has been placed on Ron Newman requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G6 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an orphaned disambiguation page which either

  • disambiguates two or fewer extant Wikipedia pages and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic); or
  • disambiguates no (zero) extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Nohomersryan (talk) 03:02, 16 March 2016 (UTC)


Please don't mess with the Ethereum page. Thanks! Legionof7 (talk) 19:11, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

This contains a strange implicit accusation. Do you have any particular diff of editing you consider "messing with" it? I must note that with the recent pump'n'dump of Ethereum, the Ethereum article will need the closest of disinterested editorial monitoring - David Gerard (talk) 19:22, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
What do you mean? You have been obviously making useless edits to that page. Legionof7 (talk) 04:24, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
Please review WP:NPA, and if you have a financial position in Ethereum then WP:COI. Please note that if you have a financial interest in ETH, including a holding, or close involvement with the Ethereum Foundation, Ethereum development or any other substantive conflict of interest, you are required by the Wikimedia terms of use (section 4) to disclose it before editing - David Gerard (talk) 12:26, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
I don't. Legionof7 (talk) 14:56, 21 March 2016 (UTC) listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]


An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Since you had some involvement with the redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. -- Tavix (talk) 22:10, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.[edit]


This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The discussion is about the topic Cryonics. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! — TransporterMan (TALK) 16:46, 23 March 2016 (UTC) (DRN volunteer}}


Hi. Back in February, you removed a CSD tag from a redirect for the name CitizenCard, which points the reader to Proof of Age Standards Scheme, of which Citizencard is an example. However, the draft has been developed to the point where there appear to be enough independent sources to warrant a stand-alone article. Do you have still have an objection to deleting the redirect so that the draft can be moved to the mainspace? Onel5969 TT me 13:50, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

If it's a good enough standalone article, go for it - David Gerard (talk) 18:40, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Nomination of Curtis Yarvin for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Curtis Yarvin is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Curtis Yarvin until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Ironholds (talk) 14:47, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Information-theoretic death[edit]

Please go to the talk page of the article to explain why you keep reverting my edits.

WP:OR, cites not supporting claims - David Gerard (talk) 07:42, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
I did not list any original research, just like the conclusion that "50 + 39 = 89" is not original research despite not having a source for it. I provided a source for the claim that all information is conserved; if you accept the brain is a physical entity and not some magical entity then all the information follows pretty easily.
So I think you are lying about the original research thing, and using it as a way to keep views you don't like off the page.
That's probably not a good start to getting information into Wikipedia. In any case, your conclusion more closely resembles "2 + 2 = 22" - David Gerard (talk) 10:02, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
No, my conclusion doesn't require any leaps of logic, it follows DIRECTLY from the sourced fact that information is preserved. Many other people have attempted to put on the page the same thing as me, unfortunately your vandalism has locked the page up. You should consider whether vandalising Wikipedia is a good use of your time. This discussion should be continued on the page's talk page.
It's only a blog post, not an RS, but this post from a physicist, following up another physicist, gives a rough outline of just what a high burden of proof the claim of quantum computation in the brain faces - David Gerard (talk) 17:09, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested[edit]

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Cryonics". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 16 April 2016.

Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.
Message delivered by MediationBot (talk) on behalf of the Mediation Committee. 20:05, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Do you want one Edit tab, or two? It's your choice[edit]

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Request for mediation rejected[edit]

The request for formal mediation concerning Cryonics, to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the mediation request page, which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the Chairman of the Committee, or to the mailing list. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.

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Hello David,

I would very much appreciate if you would block someone who has been harassing me. I have tried to reason with him, but he has not responded in a favorable or mature manner. They do not even have a real name! They are: User talk: Please help me. Thank you sir! Splendidworld12 (talk) 23:58, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

I've had a word with Splendidworld12 about the need to accept criticism from other users, including IPs. ~!Acroterion (talk)

Low-Flying Aircraft listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]


An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Low-Flying Aircraft. Since you had some involvement with the Low-Flying Aircraft redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Houdinipeter (talk) 15:41, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Notice of Conflict of interest noticeboard discussion[edit]

Information icon This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard regarding a possible conflict of interest incident in which you may be involved. Thank you. NeatGrey (talk) 02:37, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Notice of Conflict of interest noticeboard discussion[edit]

Information icon This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard regarding a possible conflict of interest incident in which you may be involved. Thank you. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 09:52, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Vitalik Buterin[edit]


An article that you have been involved in editing—Vitalik Buterin —has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 16:14, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 7 May[edit]

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AfD Request for Comment[edit]

Hey there. I heard from a friend of a friend that you might be interested in weighing in on [[1]]? It's been a bit of a weird discussion, the deletion attempt may have been made in bad faith, and the thread's gotten chaotic. I heard you'd seen the page and thought it was a keep, so I'm wondering if you wanted to comment? Plankhead (talk) 00:17, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

It's an obvious keep and I'd speedy it myself if the friend of a friend hadn't asked me directly to opine on it. The actual evidence it was a bad faith nom for the specific purpose of trolling will do the nominator's reputation no good, assuming they care - David Gerard (talk) 07:32, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


I've just username blocked User:RationalWiki , thought I'd let you know in case you want to advise them - or if it really is someone representing RationalWiki. It's a routine username block and the editor can easily get a new name. The fact that there 2nd edit was to take something to AfD is interesting but that is a seriously bad article. Doug Weller talk 11:56, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

cheers :-) Not anyone I know of and certainly not an official account - David Gerard (talk) 12:03, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm guessing they're the new account which added a PROD to the article at AfD. Doug Weller talk 15:49, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

May 2016[edit]

Please stop your disruptive editing, as you did at Sorcha Faal reports.

If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing. Over 15 editors have collaborated on this article to bring it to its status quo ante bellum. Please seek out uniform consensus before making substantial re-writes. {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 17:08, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

The above is from someone edit-warring to restore a BLP violation - David Gerard (talk) 19:02, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Hi, David Gerard. Your massive removal of consensus content from a stable article was disruptive. My two reverts were not edit warring. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 16:44, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 15[edit]

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Arbitration case[edit]

Hi David Gerard Please note that you have been named as party in an arbitration case you can view and respond to here. [2] Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 10:32, 16 May 2016 (UTC)


I dunno why the AE_LIVE article is any less notable than any other band's live releases, particularly one of this scale. I mean, this has much information as Kraftwerk's Minimum Maximum album page but that is still about. I'm not saying i'm right, i'm just saying this bloke wasn't correct in his statement of lack of notability. Drneroli (talk) 20:16, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Decentralized autonomous organization[edit]


An article that you have been involved in editing—Decentralized autonomous organization—has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 17:48, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

about ifsloc in[edit] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yzyzyz1979 (talkcontribs) 02:29, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

about if SLOC including comment lines[edit]

please talk with me ! please! please!

It 'is a disputed, I dont think it edit-war. please! please talk with me !

please see



see Emacs SLOC, is including comment lines!

see they count lines, too including comment lines.

please write,help , please two points double appear on web. my english poor. no back , no The dictatorship; to Coexistence! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yzyzyz1979 (talkcontribs) 02:38, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom case request[edit]

A request for arbitration has been declined as premature at this time. For the Arbitration Committee, Miniapolis 13:11, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Request that you stop using ethnically offensive langauge[edit]

(cc @Checkingfax:@Doug Weller:) I am respectfully requesting that you immediatly cease your use of the ethnically offensive langauge you've been using on the Sorcha Faal reports article Talk Page, and as I've noted same here. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 08:13, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

The claim being objected to is that Russian media has a habit of seizing upon conspiracy theories, and in the present instance repeating claims made on the Sorcha Faal website - David Gerard (talk) 09:02, 28 May 2016 (UTC)


Have lodged a DYK nomination for "Duncan". Dan arndt (talk) 09:23, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Cheers! I was literally just going to look up how to do that ... - David Gerard (talk) 09:43, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
Your alternative hook is a little 'clunky' needs to be more 'catchy'. Also to use the image there needs to be a reference in the hook, something about the pub... Dan arndt (talk) 10:59, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm sure we can work on it! - David Gerard (talk) 11:01, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
  • If you look at the fourth post on the forum (18/04/2009) Bulion provides details of every week's No. 1 single, including "Duncan". Your comments on the DYK nomination aren't particularly helpful and may lead to the nomination being rejected. Have been through the DYK process numerous times and sometimes the final editors are 'picky', so let's keep the discussion on how to resolve it here on your talkpage. We are all trying for the same outcome so let's work together. Will buy you a beer if your ever back in Perth. Dan arndt (talk) 08:55, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

2016 Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Search Community Survey[edit]

The Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation has appointed a committee to lead the search for the foundation’s next Executive Director. One of our first tasks is to write the job description of the executive director position, and we are asking for input from the Wikimedia community. Please take a few minutes and complete this survey to help us better understand community and staff expectations for the Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director.

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Thank you, The Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Search Steering Committee via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:49, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Duncan (Slim Dusty song)[edit]

Updated DYK query.svg On 6 June 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Duncan (Slim Dusty song), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that in February 1981, "Duncan", a song about drinking beer, was the number-one single in Australia? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Duncan (Slim Dusty song). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Duncan (Slim Dusty song)), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:01, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Reverting my edit[edit]

If there is a discussion involving me, I have no right to comment? What was the logic behind your revert? X-Men XtremE 09:51, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

My apologies! I clicked the wrong link. I thought I'd caught it in time, but evidently not - David Gerard (talk) 10:02, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Withdrawing deletion nomination - who closes?[edit]

Thanks for the cheers for the citations I dug up for Haridas Chaudhuri. Since you've withdrawn the nomination, does that mean the deletion nomination template can be removed, or do we wait for someone (an admin?) to close the deletion nomination? I'm not quite sure how this works... Thanks -- Presearch (talk) 17:01, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure, which is why I left it :-) - David Gerard (talk) 17:14, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Carmen Fantasie (Waxman)[edit]

Could you please nominate Carmen Fantasie (Waxman) for deletion? (I would have done it myself, but I can't.) The main reasons are that it doesn't seem to be notable at all (I can't find internet links with discussion about the topic for example, and it's basically just an arrangement of some pieces from Carmen for a soundtrack) and that it's been suffering a lack of references for over ten years now, with little perspective for improvement. Another point to consider is that due to the extremely limited scope, it isn't likely to grow beyond one or two paragraphs. Maybe some material can be kept as a footnote in another article, but this one is a lost cause I think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 09:09, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

A trivial Google Books search shows a pile of possible sourcing, so I'm not confident to do so as yet without looking more closely. I might look later and see if this one can be rescued (or anyone else reading this page can). Carmen Fantasie (Waxman) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - David Gerard (talk) 09:16, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
Fully agree, the piece is, to freely quote two sources, still often played by violin virtuosi and the piece for which the composer is best known. I have added a few {{cite book}}s. Sam Sailor Talk! 16:06, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
Well done, rescuing an article is a better outcome than deletion where achievable :-) - David Gerard (talk) 11:30, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Topic bans[edit]

This isn't related to an article we've edited together, but I'm trying to figure out what's the first thing I'm supposed to do when I become aware that an editor is violating existing topic bans for the umpteenth time that were imposed almost 5 years ago and for which the editor has been blocked for violating multiple times over the years? I've never reported anyone for anything before, but I don't want to waste more time on a particular talkpage, because I feel like this editor and are are not having the same conversation and I can see in talkpage archives on other articles that almost identical circular conversations have been going on for the past 5+ years and they never get anywhere. I just asked Rhododendrites the same question too and then I realized afterwards that they have a banner at the top of the talkpage saying they're on a wikibreak. Just wanted to clarify that I'm not asking 2 people to see who gives me the best answer. :) PermStrump(talk) 12:10, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

I've never had cause to invoke another editor's topic ban. I suppose with an old one, the first thing would be to civilly point it out to them and suggest that if they want to continue they should get it lifted, and if they don't desist then ANI. That is, show effort before ANI. Then ANI has to take an interest ... - David Gerard (talk) 17:21, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Editing News #2—2016[edit]

Editing News #2—2016 Read this in another languageSubscription list for this multilingual newsletter

Did you know?

It's quick and easy to insert a references list.

Screenshot showing a dropdown menu with many items

Place the cursor where you want to display the references list (usually at the bottom of the page). Open the "Insert" menu and click the "References list" icon (three books).

If you are using several groups of references, which is relatively rare, you will have the opportunity to specify the group. If you do that, then only the references that belong to the specified group will be displayed in this list of references.

Finally, click "Insert" in the dialog to insert the References list. This list will change as you add more footnotes to the page.

You can read and help translate the user guide, which has more information about how to use the visual editor.

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor team has fixed many bugs. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are improving support for Arabic and Indic scripts, and adapting the visual editor to the needs of the Wikivoyages and Wikisources.

Recent changes[edit]

The visual editor is now available to all users at most Wikivoyages. It was also enabled for all contributors at the French Wikinews.

The single edit tab feature combines the "Edit" and "Edit source" tabs into a single "Edit" tab. It has been deployed to several Wikipedias, including Hungarian, Polish, English and Japanese Wikipedias, as well as to all Wikivoyages. At these wikis, you can change your settings for this feature in the "Editing" tab of Special:Preferences. The team is now reviewing the feedback and considering ways to improve the design before rolling it out to more people.

Future changes[edit]

The "Save page" button will say "Publish page". This will affect both the visual and wikitext editing systems. More information is available on Meta.

The visual editor will be offered to all editors at the remaining "Phase 6" Wikipedias during the next few months. The developers want to know whether typing in your language feels natural in the visual editor. Please post your comments and the language(s) that you tested at the feedback thread on This will affect several languages, including: Arabic, Hindi, Thai, Tamil, Marathi, Malayalam, Urdu, Persian, Bengali, Assamese, Aramaic and others.

The team is working with the volunteer developers who power Wikisource to provide the visual editor there, for opt-in testing right now and eventually for all users. (T138966)

The team is working on a modern wikitext editor. It will look like the visual editor, and be able to use the citoid service and other modern tools. This new editing system may become available as a Beta Feature on desktop devices around September 2016. You can read about this project in a general status update on the Wikimedia mailing list.

Let's work together[edit]

If you aren't reading this in your preferred language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you!

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk), 21:09, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Curtis Yarvin - Supposed editorializing[edit]

Hello David. In a recent edit of yours you reverted a change of mine, accusing me of editorializing in the edit message. In reply to your edit message: I had no issue with the source, just that there was only one source.

The belief that Yarvin is a racist who supports slavery seems controversial, but it may be widely held regardless; if so, I thought such a statement should be supported by multiple sources. In retrospect my edit, which was only a small rewording, was lazy, and I should have done what you did: add more sources.

With that said, my question is: why specifically did you think my edit was editorializing? It's not my intent to do so, but I have little experience on BLP articles on WP, so I may have done so unknowingly. Michael Reed (talk) 01:09, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

cheers on creating a user name :-) The bit where the edits were basically arguing with the source, in Wikipedia voice. If we need to do that it may not be a source worth having - David Gerard (talk) 07:25, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying. I'll try to take that into account in the future. Michael Reed (talk) 16:18, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
There's lots of discussion on Talk:Curtis Yarvin. He's clearly notable, but finding high-quality sources is very tricky, blogs aren't suitable for a controversial BLP, etc ... and we still need decent tech press sources on Urbit, and they don't seem to exist ... - David Gerard (talk) 16:47, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
Indeed, it seems that most, if not all, of the viable sources for Yarvin come up in the first 2 pages of a Google search—everything else is just blog posts. --Michael Reed (talk) 16:59, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Revert on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/EnlightenNext (2nd nomination)[edit]

Hi David, am I correct in thinking that your reversion of my AFD close at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/EnlightenNext (2nd nomination) was an accident? You undid it quickly but thought I'd check in and make sure you had no issue with the closing process. Thanks! KaisaL (talk) 21:24, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I apologise most profusely! The interface makes it way too easy to hit the wrong button ... I'm learning to check now, which is why I immediately reverted myself - David Gerard (talk) 21:32, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
No worries at all! KaisaL (talk) 21:35, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Ether (Cryptocurrency)[edit]

Hello David. I saw that you reverted almost immediately all changes made in the context of Ethereum and Ether (Cryptocurrency) articles. Can you elaborate on your action? I tried to see the history of Ether (Cryptocurrency) and it seems that it is removed as well, any reason for that? Thank you in advance. Gparalikidis 11:20, 12 July2016 (UTC)

Ether (cryptocurrency) and Ether (Cryptocurrency) are different articles - the first has no history. I noted the problems on Talk:Ether (Cryptocurrency) - all the sourced material is completely redundant with Ethereum, all sources covering Ether are also primarily about Ethereum, and everything in the article that wasn't redundant was unsourced material already removed from Ethereum for being unsourced. There's basically no separate notability. My edits to Ethereum were explained in the edit summaries - lots of ungrammatical English, lots of redundancy, lots of bad and unencyclopedic phrasing - David Gerard (talk) 15:48, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Crocker's rules[edit]

A while ago you deleted a relevant portion of LEe Daniel Crocker's biography (, because there was "no evidence for notability of concept - cite is to a blog".

Regarding evidence of notability, in addition to the fact that Crocker's rules are a really neat idea, Google provides over half a million results for the terms. A factor of 100.000:1 when compared to, a random Wikipedia page.

As to the fact that LessWrong is a blog, it is also supported by the Machine Intelligence Research Institute and the Center for Applied Rationality, and the author of the post, Eliezer Yudowsky, could be described as an authority.

Perhaps, as this Wikipedia page suggests (, keeping Crocker's rules is consistent with "our goal is to improve Wikipedia so that it better informs readers". What are your thoughts? What, if there is still something, would be required to reincorporate Crocker's rules? Do note that your edit is still standing.

Aristotles (talk) 14:39, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Did you see the talk page? It's a WP:BLP, so WP:IAR is one to apply with profound caution. A blog post on LessWrong is really just not a WP:RS for purposes of a BLP - and if that's really all you've got, and you don't have any better source, or strong evidence it's a neologism in sufficient usage to put into a living bio, then it absolutely must not be in a BLP. I strongly urge you to read WP:BLP and think why everything it says is the way it is. The phrase itself is clearly a neologism that has failed to take on, so WP:NEO applies - David Gerard (talk) 14:46, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Frederick Day[edit]

Long time no see. FredrickDay2 (talk) 03:00, 18 July 2016 (UTC)


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Hello, David Gerard. You have new messages at Talk:Ethereum.
Message added 11:38, 19 July 2016 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

N2e (talk) 11:38, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Berny Martin[edit]

Is there anyway to restore this article from deletion? It was tagged for PROD concerns (probably due to the lack of sources in-article) but there are several independent sources on him, and apparently his fashion line company Catou has international recognition as well. Listed below are the sources I have found:


Let me know if these are suffice. If deemed acceptable, I'll take it upon myself to include and get it to at least a START article. Thank you kindly. Savvyjack23 (talk) 02:05, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

No worries, I've restored it to draft space as Draft:Berny Martin - when you think it's ready, move it back to article space - David Gerard (talk) 11:40, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Great thanks! Face-smile.svg Savvyjack23 (talk) 18:11, 27 July 2016 (UTC)