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User talk:Dawnleelynn

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Happy New Year, Dawnleelynn![edit]

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Davey2010 Happy New Years to you too! I still have almost two hours to go. Thanks for the posting. dawnleelynn(talk) 05:18, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

DYK nomination of J.W. Harris (bull rider)[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of J.W. Harris (bull rider) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 01:09, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Famousbirthdays.com as a source[edit]

Hi Dawnleelynn . I noticed that you recently used famousbirthdays.com as a source for biographical information in User:Dawnleelynn/Christopher O'Shea. Please note that there is general consensus that famousbirthdays.com does not meet the reliable sourcing criteria for the inclusion of personal information in such articles. (See Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_153#Is_famousbirthdays.com_a_reliable_source_for_personal_information). Articlebio.com is similarly unreliable. If you disagree, let's discuss it. Thanks. --Ronz (talk) 16:35, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Ronz, that link is to a userspace draft. So it's under construction. If you would like to be part of the solution and help find better sources or recommend them, that's great but a userspace draft is still in WP:DONOTDEMOLISH territory. So as these articles are not yet in mainspace, how about providing useful sources instead of just criticizing? Montanabw(talk) 17:21, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
Ronz, This topic relates to my talk page and sandbox. I see no reason for bringing the discussion to montanabw's talk page. Besides, she did give you a suggestion here. dawnleelynn(talk) 02:11, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
What is your concern with my comment? --Ronz (talk) 03:48, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
Ronz I thought I made my concerns clear, but once again, they are:
  1. Userspace drafts are people's own idea banks and sandboxes. Unless there is a serious policy violation— such as copy and paste per WP:COPYVIO or a serious BLP violation (an attack page, for example), it is very rude to go nosing into these and making critical comments absent a serious problem. It the article moved to mainspace with these sources, then your comments would be useful and fair game, but prior to that, they have a chilling effect on people's work.
  2. If you cannot help yourself and think you must comment, then don't just complain, help solve the problem while still in workspace; offer a better source, give a tip where the same material might be sourced more reliably, and so on.

So in conclusion, on the surface, your comment's tone was not the problem, it was the time and place if was made—about a userspace draft. WP:DONOTDEMOLISH is a nice guideline for you to review on this. Montanabw(talk) 22:15, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Makes perfect sense to me...helpful collaboration is always the best option. It's the glue that binds and keeps us volunteering our time. Apologies, but I can't help much beyond gravesight dates, or possibly birth/death records in newspapapers.com - oh, I also read that we do have dob/dod that we tend to ignore unless someone challenges it. Atsme📞📧 23:22, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Dawnleelynn, if you agree with any of the others' comments above, let me know and I'll address them here. Do note that BLP applies to draft articles. I didn't touch the draft as a courtesy to you. --Ronz (talk) 01:55, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
Well deserved recognition for your work organizing the PBR articles. You are doing such a great job, dawnleelynn!! Keep up the good work!! Atsme📞📧 03:39, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

These little notices in the forms of awards are so special, thank you so much Atsme (talk · contribs)! Your contributions to this project were just as important, though. dawnleelynn(talk) 16:49, 10 February 2018 (UTC)


DYK nomination of J.W. Harris (bull rider)[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of J.W. Harris (bull rider) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 20:10, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Please see new note on your DYK nomination. Yoninah (talk) 21:37, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
I'm checking out now, so I'll review your changes tomorrow. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 22:11, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
Sure thing, I just finished but one day won't make any difference. Thanks so much! dawnleelynn(talk) 22:13, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

DYK for J.W. Harris (bull rider)[edit]

Updated DYK query.svgOn 4 March 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article J.W. Harris (bull rider), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that four-time Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association World Champion Bull Rider J.W. Harris suffered five concussions in 2008? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/J.W. Harris (bull rider). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, J.W. Harris (bull rider)), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Guy Allen[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Guy Allen at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Kosack (talk) 07:57, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

FYI, the article was passed review yesterday. dawnleelynn(talk) 21:21, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Today, it was nominated. dawnleelynn(talk) 22:26, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Autopatrolled granted[edit]

Wikipedia Autopatrolled.svg

Hi Dawnleelynn, I just wanted to let you know that I have added the "autopatrolled" permission to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the autopatrolled right, see Wikipedia:Autopatrolled. Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! Alex Shih (talk) 17:41, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

One you might be interested in....[edit]

I recently created Buster Welch...fascinating story, incredible horseman, and one of the original founders of the NCHA and NCHA Futurity. Take a look at it...he wasn't what I'd call a "rodeo star" - he rode broncs to get better at being an all-around horseman. His love was cutting horses and cattle. I'll help guide you...but because I've known Buster for a long time, it's best to get editors involved who don't know him at all, that way you can simply use what the sources say. Let me know. Atsme📞📧 20:27, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

  • @Atsme: Hi there, thanks for thinking of me. I've looked at the articles and the skimmed all of the sources' content. Are you just looking to expand the article some more and/or also add some more content about his bronc riding? Are you thinking good article down the road? And obviously, avoid any COI. I've recently done two articles on my own about rodeo performers so I've branched out from doing just bucking bulls, a couple horses, and non-human/animal articles. I really enjoyed it. Let's do it. dawnleelynn(talk) 21:20, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Looking to expand...DYK...GA...possibly FA...it will be an adventure. No need to expand on the rodeo stuff. He's a cutting horse legend. Tom's article in Texas Monthly is embellished with his style of writer lingo so you'll have to skip over all that to find the meat and potatoes, but there are plenty of other RS to gather material. Buster lost his son, Greg, his granddaughter Whitney (hit by a drunk driver), and his wife, Sheila. Should probably have a section on Marriage and family considering the notability of their deaths. Atsme📞📧 21:41, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Ok, I've worked my buns off all day on an article Eternal Sun that I've been co-authoring with White Arabian Filly so I can hand it off to her for a bit (long story). We're going to try for GA again. Anyway, the point is now I have some time for Welch. I'll communicate on the article talk page from now on. I only have one other article draft to work on on the side which is very close to finished. We all multi-task I'm sure. dawnleelynn(talk) 23:59, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Atsme Oh, I just recalled that I wanted to ask you one thing, because of your rodeo background. The Pro Rodeo Hall of Fame has inducted seven bulls. Five of them have articles now; I have either created them or rewritten existing ones. I wanted all seven to have articles but I have given up trying to find enough sources on the remaining two. I have tried searching the Internet, the library, and the Newspaper Archive. (I got a membership just for rodeo.) The hall of fame bulls are all old school these days. The two remaining are Old Spec/Speck from Harry Vold and Crooked Nose from Beutler Brothers. I looked at Vold's web site but there is not enough information. Same for Beutler, who has different incarnations due to name changes and partner changes, etc. I was able to do Oscar because I found an article in an issue of a magazine on issuu.com. I did Red Rock because everybody loves Lane and Red Rock and there's lot of source. Same for the infamous Bodacious, lots of sites. Skoal Pacific Bell had enough sites for a decent article. Even Tornado, from so long ago, I managed to find a few sites. Well, I do have a few sites for both missing bulls, maybe enough for stubs. If you know of anything offhand, great. But don't spend a lot of time; I know you can't spend a lot of time on it. It's all good, just a quick question and if you have quick thoughts great, if not don't worry about it. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:11, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Check Newspapers.com for write-ups on those 2 bulls. I'm far more versed in the cutting horse industry although I still have a few connections in PBR. I found the following articles that may or may not help regarding Crooked nose: Crooked nose, Sports Illustrated on Crooked-nose, more, more, LOT 43. Didn't have much luck with "Old Spec". Just a quick FYI - I've been using Citer for citing references in articles - it does all the work for you. Not sure how you've been citing sources but a significant number of editors are using the quick and easy formats. Give it a try if you haven't already. If you don't, you'll wear yourself out trying to change all the citations. Happy editing!! Atsme📞📧 20:33, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

@Atsme: Thanks for the reply. I don't have a subscription to newspapers.com, just the newspaper archive. I can't afford newspapers.com. The bulls are PRCA not PBR, but maybe that's what you meant. They are from before there was PBR. I'm really thinking from your context that you meant PRCA and that was just a typo. Thanks for the links, I'll look those through tomorrow. I had a busy late afternoon. Yeah, I'm not surprised there is not much on "Old Spec." I use Cite > Templates on the Source Editor window to create citations since the beginning. I tried the Visual Source Editor a little bit, but it puts in several empty attributes and some cause issues. The problem earlier was me not seeing all of the way the existing citations were formatted the first time around, not the citation method. They still aren't perfect yet, but I will fix them. I have some more time to work on the article today. And tomorrow definitely some time. Let me know anything that is an issue please. Thanks! Oh, yes I will try your citation tool too. Never know what is better until you try it. dawnleelynn(talk) 22:51, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
The reason I mentioned PBR is because bull riders typically know all the bull's (legends) regardless of who hosts the circuit/event, and could possibly point me to a book or magazine article that could be researched. PRCA is more of a fishing expedition for me trying to remember who all rides bulls because of all the ropers, bronc riders, bulldoggers, etc. Anyway, regarding Newspaper.com go to the WikiLibrary and snoop around. I think you're eligible to get access to the newspaperarchive.com - you don't have to pay anything. Keep up the good work!! Atsme📞📧 23:52, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
It took me about six months to get that free access to the Newspaper Archive, and I even had to wait while they moved the registration page from Wikipedia to their own web site too. Yes, that is free. I thought they were separate though, those two newspaper entities. Owned by the same entity but separate access. Newspapers.com cost money to subscribe but I got free access to the Newspaper Archive--that's how I thought it worked. Anyway, I did lots of searching for those two old bulls in the Newspaper Archive when I finally got that access user name and password. I even got free access to Ancestry but I don't really need that.
Ok, I understand about the PRCA and the PBR now. And that makes sense. I read an article written by J.W. Harris (I did an article on him recently) where he said "I’m a history buff and idolized Harry Vold for as long as I could remember." Got himself invited to Harry Void's ranch once and spent the day with him. Saw Crooked Nose and 777 mounted on the wall. I assume he means their heads. [1]. Great article. dawnleelynn(talk) 01:22, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

A Little Help, Please[edit]

Hello there, Dawn. I recently Added the sports infobox to the Championship Bull Riding Page, but I struggled to add the association’s logo to it. I also tried to do the same with the International Professional Rodeo Association page, but that one gave me more trouble, so I pulled out of that one altogether. I was hoping you could add the CBR logo and add the IPRA Infobox if you have the chance. Since you are more experienced, this is hopefully less troublesome for you. Thank You Very Much. Uricarrillo94 (talk) 08:01, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Uricarrillo94 Hi there, long time no talk! It's all taken care of. Note that you can't use external files in the articles. I grabbed the logos from the organizations' web sites and created logo files that could be uploaded, they need to be a certain size and lesser resolution than the originals. According to fair use, we can use a logo one time in one article as long as we can make a case for the use. I've been pretty much copying the same information (and modifying the names) from the Professional Bull Riders logo (File:Professional Bull Riders logo.jpg) since I have seen one of the copyright editors okay that file. You'll have to fill in the most recent champion in the IRPA infobox because I don't know who that is. You can look that infobox over to make sure the data is correct. Happy to help. dawnleelynn(talk) 17:19, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Thank You Very Much, Dawn. I really appreciate it. I’ll be sure to add the most recent champion of the IPRA. Other than that, it looks very good. By the way, I saw the work you did for the PRCA world champions page. I’m impressed. I think I can speak for a lot of rodeo fans when I say thank you for adding it to Wikipedia! Uricarrillo94 (talk) 22:35, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Uricarrillo94 (talk · contribs) You are welcome! Also, I'm glad you like the list article of PRCA world champions article. I still have a few minor things to do to improve the page, but the meat is there. I am also thinking about what other items from the ProRodeo Media Guide might be worth adding to articles in Wikipedia. Anyway, I think it is useful. It's much easier to use than the Media Guide for quick look-ups. I'm glad that that we have that now for both the PRCA and the PBR. dawnleelynn(talk) 01:23, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Guy Allen[edit]

Updated DYK query.svgOn 30 March 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Guy Allen, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that ProRodeo Hall of Fame steer roper Guy Allen's record of 11 consecutive world titles was broken by another steer roper named Buster Record? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Guy Allen. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Guy Allen), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Another Finishing Touch[edit]

Hello there, Dawn. I just added the info box to the Women’s Professional Rodeo Association page. I was hoping you could add the organization’s logo when you had the chance. Uricarrillo94 (talk) 21:28, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Uricarrillo94 (talk · contribs) The logo is uploaded and added to the article. I'm glad we are getting all of the rodeo organizations done. Thanks! dawnleelynn(talk) 22:32, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

A bit of an issue[edit]

I'm only able to edit spotty - went to Ophthamologist today because straight lines and text is wavey in the center and sometimes I can't see all the letters. Come to find out, I have a Macular_hole on my left eye. Going to retina specialist tomorrow. Vision is still cloudy from all the crazy drops they put in my eye today. So sorry I couldn't get to the issues you asked me to do. Won't know what's going to happen until after 1:00 PM tomorrow. Atsme📞📧 19:16, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Atsme Oh my goodness, I read the article and the two articles on solutions that can be tried. Don't even worry about the rodeo article at all, forget it exists. Take care of you. I will add you to my prayers. Don't worry about updating your status until you feel up to it. dawnleelynn(talk) 19:29, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
Hi, dawnleelynn - sorry it has taken so long to get back to you...(unfortunately) I've gotten myself involved in a few political articles with my one-eyed handicap, and forgot all about your request because of all the drama over there and the drama with my sight. I'm also working on & off with the Terence Hogan bio which requires some heavy research (there's not much about him as the robber who got away) so I took a little break from that to see how you were doing and if you got your issues resolved? (ps: I've graduated to 30 min facedown and 30 min normal every hour - better than the :50/:10 last week but annoying nonetheless - eye is healing as it should - but now I have back and neck issues. *lol*) Atsme📞📧 15:14, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Atsme It's okay, thanks for getting back to me now. There were a few questions in the talk page of Buster Welch, but that one is under your time frame. I haven't worked on it in awhile, but I'm willing to do more work on it if you like. Weirdly enough, the other issue that I requested your input on involved the 2017 Media Guide on the PRCA web site. And it went down a couple days after you posted your message to me that you had your health issue. And it stayed down until this weekend. So annoying. You would not have been able to work on that article for me even if you had been completely healthy. And now, I cannot even find the message where I described to you what I wished you to take a quick look at in my article. Knowing rodeo as well as you do, it probably will not take you long to do this. But it can wait until you are at a place where you feel healthy and have time. I did say before it wasn't a rush. The article is a List article. It's the List of Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association Champions. I just hoped you could verify that you thought each list belonged in the article (was notable enough). That you thought the title of each list was correct. And glance through the Media Guide to see if I missed any (I skipped Specialty Act of the Year for example) (each section is it's own Flip Book but you could probably skip some sections like the Justin Boots Playoff, Wrangler Million Dollar Tour, etc. Just focus on the sections with Champions and Livestock awards. Also, do you feel that Circuit champs are notable? I am thinking not. That is just way too many people. That's it. This info. can sit here for as long as needed. Here's the link to the Media Guide: dawnleelynn(talk) 17:36, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
http://www.prorodeo.com/prorodeo/media/2017-prca-media-guide
Atsme I ran across where we first talked about a review to the article. It's on the article's talk page, where better to discuss it right? Just for future reference, it's here: Talk:List of Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association Champions at the "Article review notability and other" section. It's not a long talk page. It does mention a few items that I didn't recall here in this discussion. For when you do get to it. dawnleelynn(talk) 16:46, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Help please[edit]

Sorry to bother you. I have a requested move at Talk:List_of_common_misconceptions#Requested_move_20_April_2018. Could you please comment on my move request? Thanks. Brian Everlasting (talk) 08:36, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

What Are Your Thoughts?[edit]

Hello, Dawn. I just wanted to know your thoughts on something. I feel that since you’ve contributed the most to the bull riding and rodeo articles on Wikipedia, and since you’re a knowledgeable fan, you may have some thoughts on this. Do you think it would be wise to call bull riding “bucking bull riding” from now on? The sport has come a long way from when those who participated in it thought any bull would buck hard. Nowadays, with breeding programs, stock contractors are able to pick which bulls are able to buck to a certain degree and are able to participate in rodeos and futurity events. Not only that, but bulls used for said events are of very specific breeds and mixes of certain breeds, hence we have the bucking bull breed. What are your thoughts? Uricarrillo94 (talk) 03:00, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Uricarrillo94 (talk · contribs) Hello Uricarrillo94, I just happened to be online when your message came through. Kind of a bummer day with Pearl Harbor passing away yesterday. Only 6 years old. Anyway, I would suggest you read the article I wrote on the American Bucking Bull first and also check out their web site first: www.americanbuckingbull.com if you haven't already. I also have some bookmarks saved for updating the bucking bull article with more history on how bulls like Bodacious and Oscar and their owners changed the breeding of bulls, oh and Cotton Rosser too, changing the breeding of bulls to get us where we are today. You are right, it's very different now. I've talked on Facebook messenger to the breeder of Smooth Operator a couple of times, and he refers to him as a Heinz 57. He messaged me because he noticed how much I post messages whenever Chad Berger posts pictures of Smooth Operator on Facebook and he saw I was a big fan of the bull. Anyway, check that out and we can talk some more. I might also ask my mentor who I've known since I started editing here. She might not write as much in rodeo, but she is very knowledgeable enough about it. She oversees them. I know some other editors who are knowledgeable about rodeo too. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:31, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the information, Dawn. I also came across the PBR article regarding Pearl Harbor’s passing. I was disappointed and saddened, but his legacy will surely live on. Now that I can think about it, modifying the sport’s name is probably out of the question, since simply “bull riding” is deeply ingrained into the brains of those around it. I will say, however, that I am thankful for the PBR and other organizations for putting articles into their websites explaining the welfare and bull selection for their events. People who have never been exposed to the sport, especially animal rights activists, often times assume that random people pick random bulls and force them to buck, when we know that is not the case. Uricarrillo94 (talk) 03:55, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
Uricarrillo94 (talk · contribs) Yes, the term bull riding is very ingrained after about 120 years or so. But it is okay to talk about the American Bucking Bull breed when you know that is the bull's official breed. Bushwacker, Smooth Operator, Code Blue, Shepherd Hills Tested, etc., are all that breed. The PBR put out a new article a little while ago about Pearl Harbor, one that does him more justice and is much classier, just fyi. Also, I know what you mean about people who have no real knowledge about the sport or have fake knowledge like AR activists. I consider myself an animal welfare person. There's a big difference. Anyone who thinks you can make a bull buck should study physics. Anyway, after reading this new article about Pearl Harbor they make a good case for his notability; I'm trying to decide if he is notable enough for an article, even though he never won a championship. Thoughts? :) dawnleelynn(talk) 04:57, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
I consider myself an animal welfare person myself. As far as an article for Pearl Harbor, I would say he is definitely worthy of one. He was a world championship contender for years and admired for his ability. There are many bucking bulls from the past who never won a world title, and yet are considered legends like Hollywood, Locomotive Breath, Blueberry Wine, Crossfire Hurricane, Scene of the Crash, Smackdown, Mick E Mouse, etc. Articles for bucking bulls do them justice as animal athletes. Uricarrillo94 (talk) 05:28, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
Uricarrillo94 (talk · contribs) That's a good point. Mick E. Mouse still has a huge fan base to this day. And don't forget Air Time. He was listed in a list of the ten greatest PBR bulls ever which came out before he retired. Moraes said he considers Air Time one of the greatest ever. I had always planned an article for Pearl Harbor because I always believed he would win the title at least once before he retired. I even redlinked his name whenever I used it in articles. But there is still some criteria in the notability guidelines for Wikipedia that has to be met. If the subject has a lot of sources, that is usually very helpful in establishing notability. A lot of PBR sources is good, but some other sources would be good too. Some of the bulls you mention might have less sources than others. I recall Smackdown just passed recently, so that might have stirred up some sources for him. But sometimes even extremely notable subjects have little sources. For example, the ProRodeo Hall of Fame bulls, Crooked Nose and Old Speck (or Spec), have very little sources. And that has kept me from finishing all of the bulls in the Hall of Fame. Anyway, notability at its basest definition is "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list." WP:GNG So, it's just a matter of finding enough sources that claim the bull is/was notable. dawnleelynn(talk) 06:29, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Bull riding[edit]

About the Global Cup article, some rules or competition description would be nice. How are the winners decided, two judges give out points? How many competitors, why 14? How are competitors competing to each other - do they take turns, how many rides, do all team members compete or are some of them "in reserve"? What does "Bulls Ridden Ratio" mean? "The hosting country does retain a competitive advantage." - what advantage? Money is also mentioned in the article, if it's important how are the amounts decided? --Pelmeen10 (talk) 06:46, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Pelmeen10 First of all, thanks for all you've done and contributed. Sorry to get back to you so long, it's been a busy day. I had some DYK issues to resolve earlier and real life butted in, LOL. However, this weekend I'm going to spend some time on the PBR Global Cup article. I had some of those same questions you've asked and you also asked some good ones I had not thought of. I still have several sources I haven't used yet, so I hope all of the answers are in them. I do know that many of them are. I will ping you when there is something to look at again. I also saw what you did to the article with linking the team members world champion titles, and I have never done it that way, but I like it. I shall start doing that from now on. I love learning cool new things on WP. Thanks a lot. dawnleelynn(talk) 04:06, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
Pelmeen10 I made significant content additions to the article yesterday. I made significant headway in answering the questions you posed. Some of the questions I just don't have access to specific answers, such as does the PBR decide how much money goes to each team. They don't tell us that for the regular PBR events either. Anyway, you can check it out at the same link, PBR Global Cup. I do believe there is a lot more information about the competition format now. dawnleelynn(talk) 22:56, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Mary Burger[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Mary Burger at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Soaper1234 - talk 21:19, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Bruiser (bull)[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Bruiser (bull) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 22:44, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Bruiser (bull)[edit]

Updated DYK query.svgOn 27 May 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Bruiser (bull), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Bruiser and Bodacious are the only two bulls to win both the Professional Bull Riders World Champion Bull and the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association Bull of the Year titles? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Bruiser (bull). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Bruiser (bull)), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Alex Shih (talk) 01:26, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Women in Red June Editathons[edit]

Women in Red logo.svg
Welcome to Women in Red's June 2018 worldwide online editathons.



New: WiR Loves Pride

New: Singers and Songwriters

New: Women in GLAM

New: Geofocus: Russia/USSR


Continuing: #1day1woman Global Initiative

(To subscribe: Women in Red/English language mailing list and Women in Red/international list. Unsubscribe: Women in Red/Opt-out list)

--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:15, 29 May 2018 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Vital Articles horses[edit]

Arkle is the highest rated timeform steeplechaser at 212. He is considered by many to be the greatest steeplechaser of all time. Arkle has won the Cheltenham Gold Cup three times. Only Golden Miller has won the Cheltenham Gold Cup more. Arkle also won the Irish Grand National at top weight. The current handicap system was developed because of Arkle. PS Golden Miller is the only horse to win the the Cheltenham Gold Cup and Grand National in the same year (1934). There was no timeform ratings when Golden Miller was racing. Either horse could replace Jay Trump or be added to the vital articles. Mobile mundo (talk) 22:12, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Mobile mundo Hi, thank you for the information very much. I assume you saw my posting on one of the WikiHorse projects? I will share with my mentor and equine expert, Montanabw, and add the appropriate information to the Vital Articles. There is still room for additional horses or replacements could be made, as whichever makes more sense, as you suggest. I will let you know the outcome. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:39, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
Mobile mundo Hi again. We had added Red Rum to the Vital Articles list earlier. How do think he compares with the two you mentioned? According to his article, he has the greatest success at the Grand National. At this point, we will probably keep him and another 1-2 steeplechasers though. Jay Trump will probably get removed. Keep in mind that the list at Vital Articles is just in a suggestion phase right now. Nothing is final until they get to the point where they decide to finalize and vote on them. That may be awhile. dawnleelynn(talk) 18:24, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
Tough question. The Cheltenham Gold Cup wasn't always the most important race at the Cheltenham Festival. I'm not sure when it became the most important race at the Festival. The Grand National would usually get more viewers. I would say Arkle would be the best of the 3 mentioned. Red Rum would probably the most well known of the 3 although Arkle would be close. Information on Golden Miller would be difficult as his success was covered by radio while the other 2 had their success televised. (Mobile mundo (talk) 22:55, 2 June 2018 (UTC))

Where are Horse Trainers on vital articles list[edit]

Sorry I can't find any Horse Trainers on the vital articles list. Mobile mundo (talk) 23:11, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Mobile mundo I will look into this and get back to you. I haven't thought about until you mentioned it, though. I don't know if there are any. However, I think it is important to have some trainers. dawnleelynn(talk) 23:26, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
Mobile mundo Apparently, there is a category called "Equestrianism" in the Level 5 Sports People area here: [2] They have a hard quota in the sports people area for some reason. They initially had only 1 in the quota for rodeo but montanabw and I were able to persuade them to raise it to 4 people. Anyway, this Equestrianism category is composed of 4 jockeys and one dressage. This is ideally where trainers would go. I will ask the appropriate person about trainers. If you are going to include race horses, you should also include their trainers. However, we may only get 1 or 2 in the quota if I can persuade them to include any. I will get back to you. I believe the trainer role was unintentionally overlooked. They should have included at least one. This might take longer to get back to you than today. dawnleelynn(talk) 00:18, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
Mobile mundo Hi, I did post in the Level 5 talk page even though I knew who would probably answer me. Here's where the answer is and it's a positive response. I will posting a message to poll the horseracing wikiproject again, this time about trainers, jockeys, etc., as mentioned in the response from GuzzyG. See this link for the response: [3]. dawnleelynn(talk) 16:33, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
Driving by to comment... I answered at the Vital Articles talkpage, but trainers of racehorses are kind of like the coach of a sports team, whereas jockeys and other riders are like the team players. And once we get into "horse trainers" generally, we open up a big can of worms because it's not just racehorse trainers, we also have about 3000 years of equestrian masters of the art of horse training (starting with Kikkuli and Xenophon. If there's a "notable personages" or "coaches" type of category, then I think it useful to try and come up with some names, but we don't want to displace the riders. I'd actually make a case for Horse racing and rodeo to be treated as totally different sports from Equestrianism in general. Just because they all involve animals, well, most team sports all involve a ball... Montanabw(talk) 20:25, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Mary Burger[edit]

Updated DYK query.svgOn 4 June 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Mary Burger, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that having won a world title in 2016 at the age of 68, professional barrel racer Mary Burger became the oldest rodeo world champion? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Mary Burger. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Mary Burger), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 04:16, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

My sandbox for the PRCA champions article[edit]

Atsme Sorry about that, but you had one row with an extra cell in it. Some of the entries were in the wrong cells due to that as well. The cell was sticking out into another column on the right side of the table all by itself, and it was throwing all of the alignment off. I wasn't going to do anything else. It should be good now, and I leave it all to you now for the rest of the afternoon and early evening. Thanks a bunch! dawnleelynn(talk) 21:00, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Go ahead and fix what needs fixing - my bad - just can't do it one-eyed as the lines run together. Atsme📞📧 21:07, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Reserved[edit]

In the equestrian section it says 5/10 with 1-5 named and 6-10 reserved. I'm not sure what that means. I also saw User:GuzzyG/Sandbox 9 have 16/20 in the equestrian section and am a bit confused. Mobile mundo (talk) 14:04, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Mobile mundo The quota was just raised for many categories in Level 5. Sports Figures was one of them, and it's the most tightly controlled category. GuzzyG is guarding the extra spaces that were added so someone else doesn't add entries there until he is ready to add his. I can see that what he is doing in his sandbox is playing around with the category trying to decide which ones to add in as there were many suggestions from montanabw in the Level 5 talk page message and all those suggestions to my post in the WikiProject Horse racing talk page. I did just add a message that Tony McCoy seems to be the only steeplechase jockey that was suggested. Hope this helps. dawnleelynn(talk) 19:48, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. Tony McCoy has the record for most British jump racing Champion Jockey titles (20) and has also won the Grand National, Cheltenham Gold Cup, Champion Hurdle and been top jockey at the Cheltenham Festival. Ruby Walsh has the record for most Irish jump racing Champion Jockey titles (12) and has also won the Grand National, Cheltenham Gold Cup, Champion Hurdle and been top jockey at the Cheltenham Festival. Ruby Walsh has more wins than any other jockey at the Cheltenham Festival. Tony McCoy is probably a better candidate as he is retired and Ruby Walsh is still active (currently injured). (Mobile mundo (talk) 20:48, 14 June 2018 (UTC))
Mobile mundo Yes, they are trying to select people who have finished making the mark in their field for the most part. Unless they have already had an extraodinary career. For example, Tiger Woods was chosen as a Level 4 figure even though he's not done with his career. But it should be obvious why he is already extraordinary. I think some might agree that Bob Baffert could be included now that Justify has won; that's two TC horses for him. I know he's not the first TC winner, he's the second. But add in the rest of what's he is done and he possibly could be considered exceptional before finishing his career. Anyway, I agree that McCoy would probably be the one to select in this case. I will let Guzzy know there is more weight attached to his notability from the wikiproject Horse racing. Thanks. dawnleelynn(talk) 20:59, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Yes Bob Baffert is the dominant North American trainer. What happens when GuzzyG gets 20/20 in the equestrian section? I am guessing there is a vote but I am not familiar with the process. I looked for it in the frequently asked questions page but could not find it.(Mobile mundo (talk) 23:07, 14 June 2018 (UTC))
Mobile mundo Yes, there is a vote ultimately. Though Guzzy will certainly tell them that these selections came from a polling of the wikiproject. There will not be a vote any time soon. There are still many categories that need their quota filled. I know there is no place to read about it. I may ask another editor about it. I have learned much, but there is still much to learn. Oh, thanks for posting that Arkle was added to the category. I should have done that. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:13, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Sandbox[edit]

Thanks for creating the sandbox. What is the quota? Just letting you know I moved the stallions into the other section and put in Golden Millers win total and his start total. Mobile mundo (talk) 11:57, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Mobile mundo Yes, any edits to the horse information is highly welcome. Thank you. I believe the editor I spoke with about the quota is one of the ones in charge. They told me some time ago to put in at least 20 and that there would be time later to add more. However, it was been awhile, and I think I can add more now. The entire quota for animals is not even close to being met. I think we can safely add a total of 30-35 right now. Dogs is at 41, and I have talked that category over with another editor. dawnleelynn(talk) 16:31, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
My bad, dog breeds are 41, that's different. This is not breeds. dawnleelynn(talk) 16:33, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Mobile mundo Hey, since you seem to know a lot about steeplechase, can I ask you about a horse? Have you seen or are you aware of the CBS 60 Minutes Special horse, Senior Senator? I never knew about timber racing until I watched it. I became a bit of a fan of the horse after seeing that episode. So I know he has won the Grand National and Maryland Hunt Cup here in Maryland twice now. I watched the video of the race this year. Shame about that accident he had last year. Anyway, there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest here on Wikipedia about timber racing, although I know Jay Trump and Ben Nevis have articles. There has been some talk about taking Senior Senator to England if he keeps it up, though. At some point, he should be notable enough for an article. Perhaps if he wins three Maryland Hunt Cups. Another flat race horse with issues becoming a great jumps horse, it's interesting. [4] dawnleelynn(talk) 20:41, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
I hadn't heard of him. The link you sent was a good read. The vet done a good job with the broken neck. He does have potential to become notable enough for an article.(Mobile mundo (talk) 14:21, 23 June 2018 (UTC))

Talk page templates[edit]

Hi Dawn, please don't add {{Talk header}} almost everywhere ... it's only for very high-traffic talk pages like Talk:Donald Trump, per its documentation. Also please don't use {{WikiProject banner shell}} when there are less than three WikiProjects, or to hide non-WikiProject tags, again per its documentation. I have undone or partially undone many of your talk page edits for this reason. Graham87 02:27, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Graham87 (talk · contribs) One fixed example of an article I created and a warning so I could have made the changes would have been optimal. Changing articles I didn't author to your heart's content is fine. Searching out all of my articles to change only irritated me the way most other administrators have who I have run across and have forced their changes and perceptions of the rules on me in the past. The help for the banner shell says "generally three or more" wiki projects; it's not a cut and dry 3. Thus, your legalistic enforcement of there must be three is not warranted. I can use it for two projects if I want and it's no big deal if I do. So who cares if I use the banner shell feature or not. It is a small matter and does not inconvenience anyone. As for the talk header, again, I am just taking my time to learn more about regarding your perception of how it should be used. I would have liked to do that before having all of my articles changed. Again, changing other articles that I didn't author was fine; I did do quite a bit of that while I was adding the Vital Articles Template to them yesterday and today. I don't want an edit war on my own articles; please refrain from editing my articles any further as these are trivial matters and let me finish my understanding of the policy and consult my mentor on them. Thank you. dawnleelynn(talk) 06:31, 25 June 2018 (UTC) p.s. I want to archive some content on one article's talk page. I need the header for the search archive feature, btw.

Graham87 (talk · contribs) Hi, I wanted to apologize for my little rant. That was not necessary. I could have just asked nicely. I took a look at Template:Talk header today. It all makes sense except for one thing: "attract commentary from inexperienced editors". Not really sure that would make much difference there. I'm going to remove any talk headers I have on my articles as I come across them. I was going to archive some content on Eternal Sun's talk page, but I haven't figured out how to use that yet. I know how to manually archive my own talk page, but I wanted to try a different method on the horse's page. Anyway, I know you had good intentions, so thank you that I learned it now before I did too much damage out there on other articles. dawnleelynn(talk) 19:39, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

No worries, apology accepted. Re the phrasing about attracting commentary from inexperienced editors, I imagine it refers to making it easier to post new sections and to learn the conventions of posting (e.g. signing messages, etc.) Re archiving, see example 2 of User:Lowercase sigmabot III/Archive HowTo for how to set it up. The only small problem with that archiving system (which is the easiest to use) is that it requires each section to have at least one signature. While making sure of that on the "Eternal Sun" talk page, I went and set up archiving on it anyway ... hope you don't mind. It's a little smaller than the size of normal pages that are archived, but adding archives is probably OK too. I've also added {{Archive box}} to the page instead of the talk header. Graham87 03:07, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Graham87 (talk · contribs) That is super awesome! Everything you said and did I mean. Thank you for accepting my apology. It seems in these modern times, forgiveness is sometimes harder to come by. I appreciate you taking the initiative on the talk page. Yes, it may seem there is not quite enough there yet. However, I am co-authoring the page with another user. We went through one GA nomination and it failed due to an issue we did not foresee. We are working on updating the article using a new source brought to our attention which is why it failed. At any rate, we will be doing more of the chit chat back and forth on the talk page. And we will be doing another GA attempt. And hopefully, someday an FA attempt. And so forth...so greater need will arise for archiving....plus I want to try it out for my first attempt. So anyway, long story short, talk page good now. LOL. Please let me know if I can every do anything for you. I assume it's okay to ping you if I have questions trying to use it. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:54, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
No probs; glad I could assist. Feel free to ping me or message me if you need help with talk page archiving or anything else on Wikipedia. Happy editing! Graham87 04:11, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Mary Walker (rodeo)[edit]

Hi, Dawnleelynn, I just came by to promote your hook at DYK. I made a few minor tweaks to the article, but I wanted to say that all in all, you did a great job. The writing is encyclopedic and the quotes are suitable and not ubiquitous. Keep up the good work! Yoninah (talk) 14:20, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Yoninah Hi Yoninah, thanks for the message. I appreciate it. I liked the adjective you picked to describe her childhood as I was having trouble finding a neutral word for it. All of your edits were very helpful. Glad the article tone was better. Of course, it was not a PBR article. But I am still gratified to hear that it was an improvement.dawnleelynn(talk) 17:09, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
Yoninah Hi Yoninah, well the Mary Walker article has really gone through some major changes since we last talked. So, I wanted to tell you I saw your edits earlier today, and it was nice to have someone come in and work on the copy edit type stuff. They were all great improvements, so thank you very much. I did this article for Women in Red, so I'm really pleased it has finally come together and made it to prep again. It was touch and go there for a time. Thanks again. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:37, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
Yoninah I thought you had removed the text regarding the hall of fame because it was not encyclopedic. Now I see it was because I didn't source it below in the body. I took care of that, but I am not 100% pleased with the text I added regarding why the hall inducted her, which I am basing on content from her induction page. This is the type of writing I am still working on to get better. Thanks for catching that! dawnleelynn(talk) 17:15, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
Actually, the source doesn't say it gave her the award because of her struggles and accomplishment. The award page is just a short bio. I think you should revert the lead to the way I wrote it, which is more encyclopedic. Yoninah (talk) 19:21, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
Yoninah I took a refresher through WP:TONE again. Regardless of the induction paragraph content, I am trusting you are right, as well as finding support in that Wiki page and others that adding that type of content is, well, something the article should let the reader draw their own conclusions on after being presented with the facts. I changed it back to the version that just states she was inducted. I guess it also looks like fansite style writing too. So, here I am willing to learn. Thanks for helping. dawnleelynn(talk) 19:52, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
You're welcome. Anytime you can be dispassionate and state "just the facts, ma'am", you'll be writing encyclopedically. Yoninah (talk) 19:55, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Yoninah Was away for awhile. Thanks for catching those other instances I forgot about in the article. Ay-ya-ya. LOL. And that reference to Dragnet. I'm giving my age away if I say I remember my parents watching the series revival 67-70 when I was a young girl...lol. dawnleelynn(talk) 02:53, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Racehorse dates and countries[edit]

Feel free to delete or find a place in the horse sandbox for the list below:

  1. Byerley Turk (Middle east) (1680 – 1706)
  2. Darley Arabian (Middle east) (1700 – ???)
  3. Godolphin Arabian (Middle east) (1724 – 1753)
  4. Eclipse (GB) (1764 – 1789)
  5. Man o' War (USA) (1917 – 1947)
  6. Seabiscuit (USA) (1933 – 1947)
  7. Citation (USA) (1945 – 1970)
  8. Phar Lap (New Zealand) (1926 – 1932)
  9. Kelso (USA) (1957 – 1983)
  10. Secretariat (USA) (1970 – 1989)
  11. Red Rum (Ireland) (1965 – 1995)
  12. Arkle (Ireland) (1957 – 1970)

The country refers to where the horse was born. The first 3 on the list are deliberately vague because I'm not sure what the national boundaries were back then. For the dates it is year of birth and year of death. Mobile mundo (talk) 23:40, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

@Mobile mundo: Hey, sorry for the delay! I had an issue with my articles. Thanks for this compilation. I will get it incorporated into the sandbox soon. I appreciate it. dawnleelynn(talk) 19:44, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
No problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mobile mundo (talkcontribs)
@Mobile mundo: Okay, I've added the list to the sandbox. I hope more editors will vote eventually. But there really is still plenty of time. They aren't voting any time soon. They just increased quotas, so more work to do to fill them. Anyway, I'm sure the information will be helpful. Thanks! dawnleelynn(talk) 03:18, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the update. I added the other horses and note explaining what is in the brackets. Feel free to play around with it or delete if you want. The first horse on the other list I think was born in Greece but I am not 100% sure. For the second horse there are multiple claims. (Mobile mundo (talk) 23:24, 1 July 2018 (UTC))

Incomplete DYK nomination[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Mary Walker (rodeo) at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; if you would like to continue, please link the nomination to the nominations page as described in step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 08:05, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

July 2018 at Women in Red[edit]

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Regarding rewrites[edit]

Nikkimaria A few things about some of my articles. And hey yes, it would have been nice to get a heads up of what you were doing in the beginning.

  • Bodacious - I would appreciate it if you would take an extra light and judicious hand to this article or let me do it. I have been working on this article since I started editing on Wikipedia with another editor. We actually WP:TNT'd it a few months ago. This bull is from the end of the 20th century and is considered by many to be the greatest bucking bull ever. So this article is very important and will become an FA. It easy to get the citations mixed up in here.
Hi Nikkimaria I had no need to even worry. Your rewrite of Bodacious was awesome. I appreciate that you changed descriptions of bull rides and bull movements back into quotes, among others. I think I said before that it is is very difficult to paraphrase bull rides and such unless you are very proficient in the sport's terminology. I'm not going to do it anymore, regardless of who asks me to paraphrase such a quote. I'll take it out rather than try to paraphrase (or comment it out like you suggested). Any way, thank you so much. I believe you fixed some things that myself and the other writer have been trying to fix but couldn't get a solid handle on. We can hope the lead stays that way, but other editors keep adding content there. And so he's the most famous bull and one of, if not the greatest, so it's an important article. In fact, he was a question on Jeopardy a few months ago. dawnleelynn(talk) 17:19, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Charmayne James - This is a Good Article about a barrel racer which editor Atsme helped me bring to that status. In fact, most of the writing is hers. I'd appreciate if you left this article alone due to that. She did a lot of hard work on it and she is a GA writer and reviewer many times over. She also knows rodeo better than me and was a barrel racer.
Hi Nikkimaria Atsme wanted me to tell you that if you reworked this GA article to the point where you felt it needed reassessed, would you please ping her first? It would be much appreciated. Thanks. dawnleelynn(talk) 17:16, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
@Atsme: and Dawnleelynn, I'm wondering if some of the references in this article may have gotten split from the content - for example, some of the details attributed to the HoFa source do not appear in it. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:07, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
@Nikkimaria: and @Atsme: I recently discovered that the WPRA changed their web site and all of their web links need fixed. Could that be it? I will look at this tomorrow. Thanks. dawnleelynn(talk) 01:24, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
I fixed the HoFa one already. Hi, NM!! How's life treating you? Atsme📞📧 01:31, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
Pretty good thanks ;-) Nikkimaria (talk) 01:51, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
@Nikkimaria: and @Atsme: I ran Checklinks on James just now. There are no more broken links on this article. Thanks for fixing that Atsme. Thanks for the copy edit Nikkimaria. I'm glad the article looked pretty good, and didn't end up requiring reassessment. Thanks all! [5] dawnleelynn(talk) 03:07, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Bruiser Bruiser is an article I worked on a for long time. He is an actively bucking bull who is in the top 5 bulls that ever bucked. Which means this is a very important article to rodeo. It's also a very long article. I moved him into mainspace on May 1 after working on him in my userspace for about 6 months. I had to go through some reviews on him when I put him through DYK. When you work with the Professional Bull Riders press releases and feature articles, you will come to see that most of them are 50 percent or more quotations. People always wonder why I have so many quotes in my bull articles. (I also wrote one article on a PBR bull rider so far.) I usually eel pressured in a DYK doing a review, because they usually ask me to delete most of them or paraphrase them. Then I am ending up with these former quotes that now exist as comments and maybe not paraphrased as well as I could have due to the pressure. I also find that reviewers feel I have too many comments in the articles as well. So I try to strip them as out. I end up unhappy with my article because, like I said, I put a lot of work into it, 6 months for Bruiser. So, I am not saying this to complain. But, rather to make you aware before you start rewriting more PBR articles, especially the more current ones such as Bruiser, J.W. Harris, Code Blue, Shepherd Hills Tested, etc., to make you aware that I want to find a better way to approach these articles when I start writing them, a way that makes everyone happy. I mean, perhaps you could look at some source for a PBR subject and tell me how you would proceed. I mean, you say, you want me to learn how to proceed better in the future. Also, I would be happy to fix Bruiser and J.W. Harris. They are both very long articles and I am very familiar with them and you are not. I could also fix Mary Burger.
  • Eternal Sun - This is an article I am co-authoring with White Arabian Filly, and we are in the middle of it. I'd rather you let her continue her leadership role in this article, especially since the majority of the source is a hard copy book. We agreed I would work on it with the hard copy book source.
  • Cheyenne Frontier Days Hi, Nikkimaria, this is in my in progress list, but it's been there for a year. It's something I wrote a bit of, but at least half or more I did not write, but simply reorganized it. It badly needs redoing. And I can say that because I live here. Anyway, anything at all would be an improvement. I was hoping sometime to borrow the books (there's three at the library on it) and make it nice like the FA for Calgary Stampede. dawnleelynn(talk) 23:14, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, I will add any new issues here as they arise. dawnleelynn(talk) 04:05, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

A passing comment: I think your articles are tooooo long and detailed. If you are extracting every last detail from your sources, you are almost bound to get into close paraphrasing territory. In Bruiser for example, the 2015 season occupies 7kB of text, only just shorter than the entire article on Desert Orchid, considered by some people to be the best National Hunt horse of all time. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:05, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
Cwmhiraeth Here's an example I created for Yoninah in Bruiser's talk page. I agree most bull articles should not be that long. Bruiser is the equivalent of a great horse, like American Pharaoh or California Chrome. He's in the top five of the best bulls ever and he's not done with his career. Actually, California Chrome may be too long also. Bruiser falls in the middle of these examples. Although I agree, he probably does not warrant quite the length unless he was an FA. Also, steeplechase racing is far from as popular as thoroughbred racing. But bull riding is becoming more popular all the time. Bushwacker reached $1 million in value at the top of his career in 2014. And that's race horse values. He's been compared to the Secretariat or Seabiscuit of bulls and Bruiser is not far behind him in greatness or value. dawnleelynn(talk) 16:01, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
"We’ll never, ever see another Bruiser,” Lambert said. “We’re among greatness right now, and we better enjoy it and appreciate it because it won't last long."
Bruiser 85,907
Hi dawnleelynn. After MBW and CWM objected to my filing a CCI, I offered to go through all your edits and do that sort of comprehensive review myself, and withdraw the filing. I'm happy to do that still, but it does mean all edits. If an article has these sorts of issues and they aren't addressed, that presents a problem with regards to GA or possible FA status. I also agree with Cwmhiraeth's comment immediately above. Nikkimaria (talk) 10:26, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
Nikkimaria With Bruiser (and Harris), I was thinking more along the lines of I know where the text is that was quotes and I could more easily turn them back into quotes. You could still go over it after that. Charmayne James is already GA so how does it present a problem with GA? With Bodacious, you have my request to take extra care with it so I'll leave it there. dawnleelynn(talk) 16:01, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
Both GAs and FAs can be reassessed after receiving that status - see WP:GAR and WP:FAR. As to your offer, what would be most helpful is if you can go through sources that are offline or subscription-only. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:38, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Nikkimaria You are the one doing these edits and donating your time, so of course I defer to you on how. But when I mentioned Bruiser, I was thinking of the six months I had the article in my user space working on it. Well, he is still actively bucking, so some of that was just keeping the page updated with current activity. They are on hiatus now. I do realize you are giving up a lot of your own time, be sure I appreciate that.
I also saw that some of those older articles didn't really have that much close paraphrasing in them. Skoal Pacific Bell had one sentence where the first quote was not in the right spot, and that was it. I also checked an article for myself, Wyoming Pioneer Association, and found no close paraphrasing. Not saying you shouldn't check it, but I was curious. Also, I noticed that one of the wording issues you fixed in Dillinger was actually written by another editor. And also, when I first authored or expanded those articles, I would have been upset about content being deleted, would have a hard time seeing it as puffery. But to show you that I have grown in the time I've been here, I recognize that the rewriting you're doing is improving the articles. I mean where you are making the wording better, removing puffery, and unnecessary comments. And yes, even in Red Rock, my first article and favorite bull ever, it's better now. I was super touchy about it when I started. I have a todo list where I was always going to go back to them, but I just never seem to have time. And yes, I always knew that those huge lists of quotes in Dillinger and Little Yellow Jacket would have to go someday.
Oh, back to the point. Did you read my mind, I just starting to think what to do next was to work on Eternal Sun because so much of that article is sourced from a hard copy book and it's in a construction state anyway. So we agree on that then, good. And I don't feel entirely useless now. LOL Thank you, so yes I'll be working in that article. I'll let you know when you can review it for the content that is sourced online. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:45, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Nikkimaria I just remembered that Oscar and V-61 both have content that is cited from offline sources, so if you could add them to your list with Eternal Sun to wait until I review them, then I'll let you know so you can review the parts that are from online sources. These are older bulls w/ very few sources actually. Thank you. dawnleelynn(talk) 17:21, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
Adding: if in a DYK or other review you feel pressured to have fewer quotes, and you don't want to simply take the quotes out entirely, I'd suggest a good starting point would be to simply comment them out - this would allow you to come back at some later point and rework more completely. Nikkimaria (talk) 10:28, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
Great idea, thanks. This way I don't have to give up doing DYKs. dawnleelynn(talk) 16:01, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
Nikkimaria I was looking through your last batch of rewrites, and this was kind of on my mind before too. You made copyedits and other changes to Alice Greenough Orr even though the only changes I ever made to that article was cleanup of code and category changes. Are you going to cleanup every article I ever touched in the slightest way? Cause that could take a really long time? Just asking...not questioning your authority in this matter. You removed her son's name. I know we do that for privacy of minors when they are young, but I don't see why at this point as he is an adult by now. Just curious about too about removing details about her other child. I am just asking so I understand the policies. Thanks. dawnleelynn(talk) 18:01, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
I'm ignoring articles to which your only edit was adding a category, but am at least looking at all others. In that particular case my edit wasn't to do with your work on the article, just what I noticed when looking at it. Regarding the names, both BLPNAME and the infobox documentation advise against including names of non-notable children, regardless of their age; and see also MOS:SURVIVEDBY for the body text. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:07, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
Nikkimaria Yes, I thought you were just doing general cleanup in Orr, nothing to do w/ my edits, thanks for letting me know for sure. I was familiar with BLPNAME but SURVIVEDBY was new to me and my understanding needed some more clarification. I added that to my tips list that I keep. Appreciate that information, thanks.
In recalling that you edited MakeItDo, I remembered a bit ago, that last year I did a project to fix some broken links and some links that were pointed to the Internet Archive Wayback Machine (but had perfectly good live links) for all of the American Quarter Horse Hall of Fame horses. Courtesy of the IA Bot which sometimes is helpful only to a point. Two of those horses have crossover to rodeo, one of which was MakeItDo, I would expect you to need to go over; the other is Baby Doll Combs. But the rest are almost all Ealdgyth's. Since I know you know my mentor montanabw and you were once an Admin, it's pretty likely that you know her good friend Ealdgyth too, who is an Admin and is also pretty particular about her Quarter Horse articles. And a lot of them are Good Articles and Feature Articles. So, just a friendly warning to take care when coming upon those articles. I'm sure you know as well as I do about editing FA articles for good reasons. I mean this in the nicest way possible. I ticked her off myself back then by making changes to articles without telling her first. She wants things to be done in a certain way. dawnleelynn(talk) 23:01, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

National Hunt horses[edit]

Cwmhiraeth I was thinking it was odd that you mentioned Desert Orchid. So coincidental because I've been working in the Vital Articles project starting a few weeks ago. I've been getting the horse racing project editors involved by polling them in that project's talk page. All through my relationship with equine editor montanabw of course. They picked Arkle as the No. 1 National Hunt horse. Red Rum was a close second. But another editor did make a point of throwing Desert Orchid in the bunch as well. And also Golden Miller. The list is supposed to be all of the best horses from many types of racing, eras, and countries, and so it's hard to capture them all. But it's quite interesting. I was wondering how you were familiar with Desert Orchid? See [6], dawnleelynn(talk) 03:09, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Well, the name of all the horses you mention are familiar to me as being mentioned in the media as the "best" in various ways, and I only used Desert Orchid as an example because the length of its article illustrated the point I was trying to make. Are you familiar with novels by Dick Francis? I really enjoy them and they represent my greatest link with the equine world. I am much more familiar with bovines. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:18, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Cwmhiraeth Well, should I open mouth, insert foot? You are familiar with bovines? Does that include bucking bulls? There I went, sounding off like an expert about Bruiser and thoroughbreds and notability, not even thinking to establish if you were already familiar with the topic. But I have been thinking about the fact that three editors have now said the article is too long. And since he is not finished with his career, there will be more to write. So I am seriously considering making the article more concise.
Regarding the writer, Dick Francis, I had not heard of him. I did go over and read his Wikipedia page, though, as it piqued my curiosity. No wonder you have learned so much about that type of racing. It sounds pretty interesting. I do borrow books from the library to read from time to time, mostly science fiction. But I run of things to read there as I have been reading that genre for so long. This is something I put on my list to check out. Thanks! dawnleelynn(talk) 16:04, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Mary Walker (rodeo)[edit]

Updated DYK query.svgOn 4 July 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Mary Walker (rodeo), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Mary Walker overcame a tragedy and a serious injury to win the 2012 World Barrel Racing Championship? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Mary Walker (rodeo). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Mary Walker (rodeo)), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 00:12, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Precious[edit]

barrel racing and bull riding

Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg

Thank you for quality articles around barrel racing and bull riding, especially its brave women such as Charmayne James and Mary Walker (rodeo), for Code Blue (bull) and Scamper (horse), written based on knowledge, with enthusiasm, diligence and in team spirit, - Dawn, you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:23, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

My greatest award to date. Thank you Gerda Arendt, I will treasure this. dawnleelynn(talk) 23:28, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

The gold[edit]

Just an FYI - it wasn't as notable an event as her other accomplishments. Also, please see this article which confirms that it was a one-time event, therefore not notable. Atsme📞📧 21:59, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Atsme Thanks, consider it history. dawnleelynn(talk) 23:14, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

August 2018 at Women in Red[edit]

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An exciting new month for Women in Red!


August 2018 worldwide online editathons:
New: Indigenous women Women of marginalized populations Women writers Geofocus: Bottom 10
Continuing: #1day1woman Global Initiative
Notable women, broadly-construed!



For the first time, this month we are trying out our Monthly achievement initiative

  • All creators of new biographies can keep track of their progress and earn virtual awards.
  • It can be used in conjunction with the above editathons or for any women's biography created in August.
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Invitation to participate in study[edit]

Hello,

I am E. Whittaker, I am working with Wikimedia’s Scoring Team to create a labeled dataset, and potentially a tool, to help editors deal with incivility when they encounter it on talk pages. A full write-up of the study can be found here: m:Research:Civil_Behavior_Interviews. We are currently recruiting editors to be interviewed about their experiences with incivility on talk pages. Would you be interested in being interviewed? I am contacting you because of your involvement in Wikipedia’s Women in Red project. The interviews should take ~1 hour, and will be conducted over BlueJeans (which does allow interviews to be recorded). If, so, please email me at ewhit@umich.edu in order to schedule an interview.

Thank you Ewitch51 (talk) 20:22, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

New inductees being honored Saturday August 4 2018.[edit]

Hello Dawnleelynn, Not being a programmer, I just introduce ideas. The Pro Rodeo Hall of Fame in Colorado Springs, Co. has introduced their 2018 Hall of Fame inductees. They will be honored August 4th. Would you consider tackling the project? I'd be happy to research, dig, find photos for you. I just got notification that the ceremony will be broadcast on The Wrangler Network live Saturday also. Let me know if I can help if you decide on the job. Bullfighter Leon Coffee, Walt Garrison among this year's winners Marti Moser-Seddon Seddon Western Stunts MartiSeddon (talk) 00:51, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi MartiSeddon. Thanks for your message. Yes, another year of inductees coming up. I've read through your message, yet I'm not clear on what it is exactly you are asking me to do? I do write articles on rodeo performers from time to time. And I saw your thanks on the article that lists all of the ProRodeo Hall of Fame inductees. I will be adding all of the 2018 inductees to that article now that their inductee pages are available. The last time that I checked the hall of fame site, they were not. But I see now that they are up. Please clarify what you are looking for, thanks so much. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:09, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Rodeo redlist[edit]

Hi! I took a look at the Rodeo redlist and I think it looks super! Thanks for taking the time to add the new names. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 20:03, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Megalibrarygirl Ok, great and thanks! The next step is to find out if the Barrel Racing NFR Average winners are notable. And then, much harder, to find women rodeo performers back in the day when they were still performing the other events. Currently, women only perform in barrel racing at the top level, and it's men only in the other 7 events like bull riding, roping, and such. For example, I am writing on Wanda Harper Bush right now, she has 2 barrel racing championships. But she also competed in many other events, even beating out men. Onward ho! Oh, I was also wondering if I could put together some kind of resource for anyone who wanted to get into the sport to write. I know all the ropes... :)) dawnleelynn(talk) 20:16, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
I think that's a good idea to create a guide for people writing about rodeo. Most of us don't know the "ropes." ;) You can create an essay, like we did here. We started the essay in our User space. BTW, do you have access to Newspapers.com? When I wrote about Fern Sawyer, I found a lot of resources from Newspapers.com. If you don't have access, you can request it here. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 20:22, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Megalibrarygirl Well, that's cool there is already a place to put a guide. I will definitely do that. And, about newspapers.com, I already have a membership to newspapers.com as well as newspapers archive.Those are great resources I will use in my search as well as seeing if my mentor montanabw has any ideas. She has done some article work in that time period. Regarding Fern Sawyer, I have seen that article before when doing rodeo category work. It mentions that she has done rodeo performing, but gives no events. Cutting, according to our resident expert, Atsme, is not a rodeo sport, but it is a cowgirl sport of course. That's why the article is in the generic "Rodeo performers" category. If you know which events she performed in rodeo, there are categories for all 8 events, like bronc riding, barrel racing, roping, etc. There are also categories for trick riding and pole bending and other "women" events. Anyway, thanks for the great ideas. :) dawnleelynn(talk) 20:52, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Megalibrarygirl I finished my first draft of User:Dawnleelynn/Creating Rodeo Biographies. Could you glance at it to see that it makes sense? Or is there someone else I should ask? Am I supposed to move it to the same place as the others at Help Essays? Or locate it in my userspace? I should put a sentence in the redlist with a link to it when it's ready? Thanks! My first time and all that. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:46, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
I think the draft looks really good. You may want to also post a link with a request for review on the WiR talk page, especially so that people involved in sports can eyeball it, too. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:22, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Copyright problem: American Bucking Bull[edit]

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as American Bucking Bull, but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text or images from either web sites or printed works. This article appears to contain work copied from http://www.thebeefsite.com/articles/4350/why-rodeo-bull-breeding-is-bringing-in-the-big-bucks/ https://cowboylifestylenetwork.com/abbi-american-bucking-bull-inc/ http://www.unitedbuckingbulls.com/blog/a-look-at-the-bucking-bull-breeding-industry https://issuu.com/americanbuckingbullinc/docs/abbi_mediaguide_2017_sm, and therefore to constitute a violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies. The copyrighted text has been or will soon be deleted. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with our copyright policy. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators are liable to be blocked from editing.

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Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 13:38, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

September 2018 at Women in Red[edit]

Women in Red logo.svg
September is an exciting new month for Women in Red's worldwide online editathons!



New: Women currently in academics Women + Law Geofocus: Hispanic countries

Continuing: #1day1woman Global Initiative

Check it out: Monthly achievement initiative

  • All creators of new biographies can keep track of their progress and earn virtual awards.
  • It can be used in conjunction with the above editathons or for any women's biography created in September.
  • Try it out when you create your first biography of the month.

Latest headlines, news, and views on the Women in Red talkpage (Join the conversation!):

(To subscribe: Women in Red/English language mailing list and Women in Red/international list. Unsubscribe: Women in Red/Opt-out list) --Rosiestep (talk) 01:55, 26 August 2018 (UTC) via MassMessaging