User talk:Dennis Bratland/Archive 4

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Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5

this editsummary

I don't get what you are trying to say here. tedder (talk) 06:50, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, not enough room on the summary to explain. Partially I was complaining that assuming every browser has 750 px to spare for one image is not a good practice. Probably a percentage of browser width rather than a specific number is better if you want the image to span the page. My other problem with it is that there is nothing to see there. When you blow the thumbnail up to 750 pix -- or any size -- there isn't a cornucopia fascinating detail that springs to life. The H-D museum is a typical contemporary design, with a combo of parking lot + steel cage + plate glass. It might as well be a Wal-Mart or Home Depot or any one of 1,000,000 car dealerships. So my point was that nothing is gained by the unusual page layout of having the big panorama, other than to verify that indeed, this is a really unremarkable building. --Dbratland (talk) 07:04, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Gotcha. I thought it was remarkable enough to take the pic, and it's a landmark for what it means, but I can see what you are saying. The real way to handle it would be with {{wide image}}, but it's not a big deal, either. Maybe if there's an article for the HD Museum it would be appropriate to do so, but not for HD itself. tedder (talk) 07:11, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Infobox person

I missed the negative number in the Harry Hurt infobox! Thanks. -- Brianhe (talk) 04:53, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

NP. --Dbratland (talk) 23:15, 2 January 2010 (UTC)


Do you have sources for this? ISTR you keep an archive of MCN mags, it should be in there. tedder (talk) 22:16, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, not in Cycle World. According to ProQuest and General OneFile, there are no hits for DRZ at all in Cycle World. There is only one hit in Motorcyclist, mentioning Kevin Schwantz's new ride.
I don't have full text, but I think there are reviews at Dirt Bike:
  • Suzuki DRZ400. Anonymous. Dirt Bike. Valencia: Jul 2002. Vol. 32, Iss. 7; pg. 48. Abstract (Summary): The Suzuki DRZ400 motorcycle for riding trails is reviewed.
  • The middleweights. Anonymous. Dirt Bike. Valencia: Feb 2002. Vol. 32, Iss. 2; pg. 74. Abstract (Summary): Several motorcycles are reviewed, including the Honda XR400R, the Husaberg FE400E, and the Suzuki DRZ400E.
  • Lazy boy. Anonymous. Dirt Bike. Valencia: May 2002. Vol. 32, Iss. 5; pg. 116. Abstract (Summary): The Suzuki DRZ400 is reviewed.
This review of the Clews Competition Motorcycles FT35s says it is made using the engine from the DRZ400, and that it has 42bhp and 29 ft-lb of torque. They don't say whether or not the engine is dropped in exactly as stock, or if they change the tuning in some way:
  • A bit of race retro. Hull Daily Mail. Hull (UK): Mar 23, 2007. pg. 36
This is a review of another CCM bike that also uses the DRZ400 engine, three years earlier. It says 35bhp, but again doesn't say if it is stock or not:
  • Back-road blaster; [1 Edition]. Ken Seaton. Evening Times. Glasgow (UK): Sep 12, 2003. pg. 44
I've had plenty of false negatives on Cycle World articles using ProQuest and General OneFile, so it is possible I have a review somewhere, but I don't have an index saying where it is. It seems like CW would have written about the DRZ400 at least once. --Dbratland (talk) 23:20, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Sweet. I'll go add it. That's a good list, really. tedder (talk) 23:57, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Done. I put a link to the official Suzuki specs at the bottom, but I didn't list the wheelbase, width, height, etc. And they give the bore and stroke but not the displacement for some reason, and I didn't feel like calculating it.--Dbratland (talk) 23:59, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Heh. I was working on it too, so I tried to merge our versions. tedder (talk) 00:26, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

DYK for West Coast Choppers

Updated DYK query On January 3, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article West Coast Choppers, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 18:00, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

article notability

An article for you to think about: Hells Canyon Motorcycle Rally. I went through and despammed it, but I'm still not sure it is wiki-worthy. Have you ridden over in SE WA/NE OR, such as Rattlesnake Grade and Old Spiral Highway? Some of my favorite riding. tedder (talk) 03:50, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Seems like with only 5,000 riders, it's a couple orders of magnitude too small to be notable beyond the local area. It's scary to think about having an article for every rally that draws 5,000 people. But I'll read the news and see what it says.

I never go anywhere; I'm too tied up now. I took a short ride around town last week and my wife had to come rescue me with our trailer. Just tonight I was able to drain the tank and take the fuel pump assembly out and found that a fuel line had just popped off. I was worried the ECU had burnt up up, the way it had suddenly just quit. Anyway, if I'm lucky I might get to ride 50 miles tomorrow.

I'm hoping in a few years I can talk my wife into letting me put our kid in a sidecar and riding far. We also have a baby sitters club now, which means I should be able to do one or two track days this summer. --Dbratland (talk) 04:53, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

WMRRA, eh? Yeah, I don't ride much this time of year. Heck, I need to get Sta-Bil in one bike and pull its battery, which is probably already dead. (That's the problem with the DRZ, the tripcomputer has never behaved well on the battery, even though they are still producing them).
Oh yeah, topic at hand. Curious if you have any sources that talk about it. Two local articles aren't surprising, not enough to meet GNG. tedder (talk) 06:08, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
NESBA, on my 06 Sport Classic. My Bronco is still in pieces, mostly in unopened boxes. No time... --Dbratland (talk) 02:56, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Your Bronco is a hobby, not a bike Face-smile.svg NESBA would probably be fun. I just know WMRRA folks, which is why I guessed that. tedder (talk) 03:01, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh- *taptap*, something is missing from the end of this statement. tedder (talk) 03:30, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Snakepit AFD too- there's a word or something missing from "routine local news events calendar mentions." tedder (talk) 03:32, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Edith Macefield

I'm not actively maintaining Edith Macefield, but saw your December notes on on the talk page once I returned from my latest banishment. Feel free to take the article in whatever direction pleases you. The more sources in the article, the merrier! -- Kendrick7talk 03:46, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I kind of waiting for more substantive coverage on Macefield's legend status in China. Right now it's a little thin.--Dbratland (talk) 04:00, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Meh, I tend to give thin sourcing the benefit of the doubt when most WP:RS's would be in a foreign language, in this case, Chinese. For example, I seem to recall a nit coming along and prod'ing a bio-stub I wrote for a (deceased) major Romanian historian, whose corpus was actually the source for many many of our articles on Romanian history, but English sources on his bio were thin, for an obvious reason: no one in the English speaking world would be expected to give two figs about the gentleman. But it wasn't like I made the guy up, and so I think the article is still with us. Anyway, whatever refs you have do fit a narrative: China is well known for uprooting folks and redeveloping parcels of land, these was even a movie about it (see last para under #Plot) -- Kendrick7talk 23:44, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I do like your found see also for Nail house -- quite informative! -- Kendrick7talk 00:30, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

BMW talk page

I do not wish to edit war (I just got off a block) but I do not agree with your revert of my edit, care to discuss it on the BMW talk page? (talk) 05:50, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Indeed... just typing now. --Dbratland (talk) 05:53, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Katrina Kaif

Dude, if you insist on following me to other articles and reverting me, please take care with what you revert.

Do you really think my removal of poor English such as - She got up in more than 14 countries. warrants a revert? (talk) 14:05, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

"She got up in more than 14 countries" is nonsense, and of course nonsense should always be reverted.--Dbratland (talk) 20:21, 12 January 2010 (UTC)


Dear Dbratland

Where do i go for vandalism.... every article is prohibited from being vandalised. What do I do? Here at wikipedia, constructive edits are deleted by overzealous editors. Most of the admins here are overzealous.... can you recommend a site where I can vandalise????

Aelolololol (talk) 06:01, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't help you or Wikipedia to vandalize pages because you are unhappy that some of your attempts to be constructive were deleted. Perhaps you should try to be more patient. You could discuss the issue on article talk pages, and try various approaches such as finding quality sources to support your edits. This can take a long time and it can be frustrating, but it is possible to improve pages if you stick with it and remain calm. Vandalism doesn't accomplish anything. Hope that helps. --Dbratland (talk) 06:12, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
It sure makes life easier on the moppers when people don't hide their intentions. tedder (talk) 07:24, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm sure I was getting through to him. Don't you think? If only he hadn't been blocked so soon... --Dbratland (talk) 17:18, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


The Great Magnet at work- I looked over the shoulder of User:Tamarino84 and saw that a bunch of friends had joined the HCMR facebook page. I suppose it's all related- the wiki page was created Jan6, looks like the FB page was created on or right before Jan9. tedder (talk) 06:51, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Hm, I can't see the history now. I hope nobody takes it personally that the page got deleted.

Lately I've been collecting articles Rider Mania. I'm trying to see if the oral history can be squared with the version found in reliable sources. It's hard to include coverage of the wide world out there without getting it completely wrong...

And I am still failing at staying focused on one project at a time. --Dbratland (talk) 05:26, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

No worries about not seeing it. It's just a fanpage (created by the rally folks) for people chatting about the rally. They haven't talked about Wiki from what I can tell, though it's funny to see that a motojournalist friend of mine joined. Rider Mania- huh, good luck. I'm creating the history of a big Utah sugar company despite knowing little about sugar, companies, or Utah. And I found out about it while reading a book on northeast Oregon, right in the HCMR area. How weird is that? I'll probably be in this utah/sugar rabbit hole for quite a while. tedder (talk) 05:34, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Vagos MC

What is your interest on the information regarding three "alleged" individuals being tied to the Vagos Club? You keep changing the information from alleged to them being part of the club. Do you know this for a fact? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truth64 (talkcontribs) 00:45, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Read WP:No disclaimers in articles. It is redundant to add "alleged" to any article; the footnote gives the source for the information. I don't care about the Vagos or or who did what to who for how many cookies. I'm just trying to clean up these articles and keep them cleaned up. And even if you changed my mind, there would be 100,000 other Wikipedia editors who would be just as happy to make the article conform to Wikipeida policy. --Dbratland (talk) 01:01, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I thought you were someone else. Thanks for clearing that up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truth64 (talkcontribs) 23:13, 28 January 2010 (UTC)


I changed the Reference list at the Bandidos article from 3 columns to 2. It seems more readable to me. If it bothers you, feel free to change it back, it's not a big thing, just seemed a bit more readable... =//= Proxy User (talk) 03:50, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

That's fine. But it wasn't set to 3 columns. It was set to {{reflist|colwidth=30em}} which gives you 1 column if your browser window is very narrow, or 3 columns (or more) if you have a very large browser window, and 2 columns for the more typical SVGA sized windows. The advantage is that it adapts better to different browsers, while if you hard code 2 columns that's what you get no matter how narrow or how huge the browser is. --Dbratland (talk) 03:55, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Black Bike Week

Looks impressive. I think it's still eligible for a DYK- I'd suggest putting one in today. tedder (talk) 21:44, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Already done, couple days ago. It's a really fascinating subject. Besides the youth culture vs harley culture aspect, it has this whole racial discrimination story, AND a big debate over helmet laws, and I don't know what else. There's tons of source material. I'm surprised this hasn't been covered in the past. National Bikers Roundup [1] too.

It's a shame the original creator went away mad, but I have only so much patience coddling people like that.

Also, I really want an excuse to use this photo. I do have articles in serious publications like the NYT, Christian Science Monitor and Ebony that say black bike week is ALL about badonkadonk. --Dbratland (talk) 21:53, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, badonkadonk? It was worth trying the wikification at least. Yeah, the silly attitude of "just delete it, I'm going home" is silly. Still, I'm semi-surprised there was so much out there. It's so far opposite our geographic location and my wheelhouse of motorcycle interests that I didn't know how big it was. I mean, when I hear 'rally' I think of Iron Butt, not drinking and showing off chrome.. tedder (talk) 23:28, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

dyk comment

Hi, I commented out parts of your article, Black Bike Week because it had {{citation needed}} tags in those places, which would make it ineligible for dyk. Otherwise, I found support in the article for the hook ALT1. Please see here. Hope that is ok with you. Regards, —mattisse (Talk) 01:45, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! --Dbratland (talk) 02:47, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Response re Query about The James Preservation Trust &

Dbratland: It appears you only viewed the flash entry to the web site, and did not enter the web site to view its contents. You will find what you're looking for on the following web pages:

Also see:

If you also look in the SURNAMES genealogy database on the James family's web site, that has all the known relatives of the outlaw Jesse Woodson James, you will note that no reference to Jesse Gregory James exists among them. None exists because Jesse Gregory James is not a relative of the outlaw.

Furthermore, if you review the postings on Wikipedia made by The James Preservation Trust, you will note they are representative of the interests of the family of Jesse Woodson James, and have been widely accepted on Wikipedia as a reputable authority.

THE JAMES PRESERVATION TRUSTJamesPreservationTrust (talk) 04:16, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Black Bike Week

Updated DYK query On February 12, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Black Bike Week, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 12:08, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

HOG periods

Thanks for the link on wiki style, I did not know that! I had made the change because HOG likes to get the periods in as part of their trademarking, but their trademarking desires have little to do with wikipedia. Akuvar (talk) 02:03, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I suppose it's a notable fact that something like three dots makes a difference to Harley-Davidson; it might be worth adding mention of it in the article. The HOG is a role model much imitated by a lot of other marketing departments, both in motorcycling (Ducati DESMO) and in other industries. So details like that about how they manage their image can be important. --Dbratland (talk) 02:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Honda CB900F

Updated DYK query On February 20, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Honda CB900F, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Shubinator (talk) 00:12, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Vectrix COI

It looks like a COI editor has gutted the discussion of bankruptcy from Vectrix and added a directory of retailers. Since you and I are the most recent registered editors I thought I'd discuss a response with you. Do you think a response from the motorcycling WikiProject is apropriate? — Brianhe (talk) 17:56, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I think probably if we researched it, we would find that there is more to be said, and that the article could possibly be more neutral. But I personally feel that I have at least 10 other projects that are of higher priority, either articles that are in worse shape, or that get more hits, or both. So rather than let myself get drawn into researching it, I'd want to just tag it as possible COI and put it on the back burner. Unless someone else can be recruited to work on it. Deleting the list of importers is a no-brainer though. --Dbratland (talk) 01:22, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
I tried to fix it up a little bit. At least I was able to preserve the history, rather than letting it be washed. Also blocked the username for their poor choice of a company name as a username. The article isn't my priority either- I'd rather spend my time on important topics. tedder (talk) 01:33, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Is this merger proposal listed right?

Is my merger proposal for the Honda ST series done correctly? Shouldn't it be automatically advertised at Wikipedia:WikiProject Motorcycling#Project News & Alerts and elsewhere? I don't want to run around posting notices manually and then have a bot post duplicates, and I'd rather a bot did all the work. --Dbratland (talk) 01:51, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think so. The bots do not necessarily run all the time so it may be a few hours before it shows up in the projects but I think you have done everything you need to. JodyB talk 03:58, 25 February 2010 (UTC)


I've removed references to "P" designation ST1300s (ST1300P) since I don't think this model exists, or if it does it isn't indicated on the model designation of the bikes themselves. ie for ST1100 models the police bikes were distinctively labelled ST1100TP, ST1100VP, etc where T, V, etc indicated the model year. ST1300 police models are only labelled ST1300 2/A2/A4/A6/A8 (where A indicates ABS and the number indicates model year - changes every two years - 2002/04/06/08), the same as civilian bikes. I've had about a dozen ex-police ST1300s (in white and silver), and none of them have been labelled "P" models. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:28, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Correct. P suffix was never used for the ST1300 in the UK, which was a civilian bike converted by Sonic Communications to Honda's specification. Here's the brochure, which obviously can't be included in the article as it is copyright and hosted off Honda's website. Worth knowing though... --Biker Biker (talk) 22:41, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
But they do call it the ST1300P (ST1300PA for 2010 since it has ABS) in North America [2] [3] [4] -- which isn't relevant to the UK discussion but probably belongs in the article somewhere, particularly since the competition with H-D in the police market has made the news [5].

Speed wobble in police motorcycles is an issue that goes back to Harleys and Moto Guzzis of the 1970s, at least, and there have been many lawsuits in the United States by officers against police departments and motorcycle manufacturers over the years. It would be good to cover the issue more broadly rather than just the Honda ST series.--Dbratland (talk) 23:05, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I think that the "P" designation is just held over from the ST1100s which did have that as a model name, from Honda - it's on the model designation sticker under the seat - so people continue to use it in a generic fashion. I've also seen people use the term generically for BMWs - R1100RTP for example, but I don't think this model exists either (I've got one in the garage right now, I will check). If you have seen a Honda sticker, or have evidence of such, with a "P" designation for an ST1300, then I think fair enough, put the reference back in (but perhaps distinguish between UK and North American models). —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:24, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
You never know what Honda will do to the names and codes for their models from one country to the next, or one year to the next. Their goal is selling bikes any way they can, with no regard for consistency or clarity. --Dbratland (talk) 16:02, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Ducati Desmosedeci You aren't doing anybody any favors by posting uncited hp numbers, not specifying claimed vs. measured and your incessant editing of people trying to sort out your mess is well meaning but misguided, based on lack of power testing experience. Your thinking that hp measurements should all be in the Measurements and Testing section - leaves the reader of the power figures in individual articles still not knowing what to expect when they have their bike tested - The information is out there and the world would be better off if you opened your viewpoint and stop mindlessly reverting improvements and changes. You don't even seem to understand that unqualified (much less uncited) power figures are taken as "truth", just because it's in Wikipedia... (do you?) Not to be snippity, but I've been doing engine testing for over 30 years and have 6 prctical patents in regards tpo engine testing and engine tuning. Currently - wikipedia's sloppy power reporting format is absolutely useless. I know you are doing the best that you can, but, jeez - you are simply wrong, regarding power reporting. Best regards, Marc —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marc Salvisberg (talkcontribs) 20:21, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Your argument isn't with me, it is with Wikipedia policy. You might want to suggest a policy change over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorcycling. I think the other members of the motorcycling project could help clear this up better than me.

Perhaps you should consider: what if some other guy comes along and claims he has 40 years experience and 10 patents, and blah blah blah, and he disagrees with everything you say? How should that be resolved? The reason Wikipedia's policy of verifiability exists is that it allows any editor to check a source without having to put faith in anybody's claims of special knowledge. --Dbratland (talk) 22:40, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Mind chiming in?

Talk:Motorcycle personal protective equipment#SuperFabric tedder (talk) 22:19, 10 March 2010 (UTC)


So you added a ninjette to the collection? tedder (talk) 06:09, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

No, not a ninjette. We've had the yellow '04 Ninja 250 since it was new -- that's my wife's commuter. I got a blue 2007 CBR600RR. I used the picture of the B&W bike in Taiwan because that's all I could find. I could upload a picture of my own bike to Commons, but I don't yet have a use for it anywhere except my own page. Ducati is giving me a new gas tank for the Sport1000 (the tanks spread apart, the EPA mandates a 5 year warranty on fuel systems), then I'm selling it, hopefully when bike prices creep up in June or July.

I think of the blue CBR600RRs as "the meek color" so hopefully it will blend in and they will be less likely to mess with it when my wife parks it at the "Alaskan Viaduct Cluster F%^k ".

I'm pretty happy so far with it; compared to the Sport1000 I feel like I can concentrate more on riding and less on the bike. --Dbratland (talk) 15:22, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Wow- congrats! That's a sportbike I wouldn't mind having, minus the insurance costs.. and minus U-Honda being closed. Blending in for the viaduct is certainly a good thing- they'll probably still be discussing what to do about the viaduct in 20 years. tedder (talk) 16:43, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
Poor U Honda. If only I had ubought more helmets and jackets there. I got my Vino 125 there in 2004. I got the CBR at Lake City Honda. --Dbratland (talk) 16:52, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
I bought little bits from there and had a sweetheart deal for changing tires ($20 each axle, bring unmounted rims + new tires). tedder (talk) 18:44, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
Looks like Brian from U Honda is now at Eastside Motorsports.--Dbratland (talk) 14:50, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

WP Motorcycling in the Signpost

WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Motorcycling for a Signpost article to be published April 12. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Also, if you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. -Mabeenot (talk) 19:24, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Cool -- my birthday. Does everyone put their answers to the questions on the same page Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom/WikiProject_desk/Interviews? --Dbratland (talk) 19:54, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Yep, you got it. See my first answer as a guideline. My experience is that Mabeenot will reformat it as necessary. And happy birthday! tedder (talk) 19:57, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Here's a 'published' example from the other big project I'm involved with: Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2009-07-27/WikiProject report. tedder (talk) 20:00, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! --Dbratland (talk) 00:47, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
I think the following editors might want to participate in the interview:
--Dbratland (talk) 00:47, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
So go nudge them! I recognize two of those as being active in wpmoto, but you seem to revolve around the community more, so good job identifying them. tedder (talk) 00:59, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 Done --Dbratland (talk) 01:20, 8 April 2010 (UTC)