User talk:Deuar

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Hi, Cześć, Bonjour. Feel free to leave a message! I will reply on your talkpage (everyone likes that yellow bar) ;-)


All minor planets are asteroids[edit]

Peter, 2 days ago you edited the Asteroid article and defined them as a subset of Minor planets. I have compelling reason to believe that the astronomical community does not use these terms to make a distinction. Please see Talk:Asteroid and Talk:Minor planet. Tom Peters 18:36, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: Tidal locking, Tidal friction, and Tidal acceleration[edit]

Hi Deuar,

You wrote on my talk page regarding my edits on the Tidal acceleration page. Interesting, I live in Amsterdam too, but I don't suppose you have had occasion to learn Nederlands so I'll continue in English.

Unfortunately I've only been here 2 months, so my Nederlands is worse than poor Deuar 15:33, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Concerning my credentials: bringing in "an astronomer" would not really help, unless (s)he were an expert in the field. I do have a scientific background and I have been following the scientific literature since my study time in the 1980's, so I consider myself second only to geophysicists and astronomers who actually do the research. Having read their papers, I think I can write the Wikipedia article; whether it is understandable for someone who does not have the same background is another issue, so if you can simplify things go ahead, but please do not sacrifice accuracy.

Cool. Yeah, I try not to ... (add sheepish grin) Deuar

IIRC some time ago I started or enhanced the Tidal acceleration page separately from the Tidal friction and Tidal locking pages. The latter is more about the general phenomenon, and I kind of used the former for our specific case, because it actually has an influence on everybodies daily lives (leap seconds etc. - hm, I should add that to the page). Also there is some detailed quantitative information available for the Earth-Moon system that is better placed under its own lemma than as an elaboration on the general page.

Regarding your work on the Tidal locking page: I find the explanations rather involved. The concept of torque would sum most of it up in one word. Maybe review what I put back in the Tidal acceleration page and use it to slim down the Tidal locking page. Also, you might want to add the orbital and rotation resonance of Venus with the orbit of the Earth, which IIRC is believed to be caused by a subtle tidal influence, but not fully explained.

Tom Peters 15:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll have a think and try to slim it down. Does it look factually correct to you, though? I had a rather long discussion on the talk page with William M. Connolley where he had reservations but wasn't able to clearly specify what they were. The tidal influences are back. Deuar 15:33, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

re: Meteorite image[edit]

You have a point. I've thought about that on and off since I posted the image. I used the plaque from the meteorite itself as the basis for the caption (i.e., the real-world plaque claims it shows the Widmanstatten pattern). I can't decide if I just took a lousy photograph or if they were wrong in their caption...

Either way, it's probably best to remove the Widmanstatten reference, as it's not clearly visible in the image, even if it really was there on the meteorite.

--Dante Alighieri | [[User talk:Dante Alighieri|Talk]] 20:59, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Resisters or terrorists ?[edit]

Cześć Piotr,

You ask a very good question here : Talk:Resistance movement

Let me know if you want to talk seriously about this.


AtiN 12:04, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


Hello, Deuar, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Molotov (talk) California state flag.png 22:33, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Polish Wikipedians' notice board[edit]

Hi! You may be interested in checking our noticeboard. Welcome!--SylwiaS 16:15, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


Kuiper Belt[edit]

Peter, we still have 'Mars or Earth size object' in our leading section on KB, I’ve noticed you spared it. Have you read recently about such conjectures? People talk about 'missing mass' problem but as far as I know have long time ago stopped assuming that a biggy must be there.. Am I wrong? Eurocommuter 21:07, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

It looks strange to me too, but I spared it just because I havent read anything relevant in ages, and don't know. On gut feeling, I could swallow the Mars-sized out in the scattered disk, but an Earth-sized object sounds a lot like wishful thinking. Show no mercy if you think it's out of date. Deuar 22:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Peter, Thank you for cleaning my modest contributions. Wikipedia articles about TNO are still a bit confusing (according to my boy, Thomas, 13). This was what finally made me register and add a few pieces a week ago. I’m trying to generate another graphic illustrating where the objects are (axis, eccentricity- and maybe inclination-wise); projections of orbits graphs are confusing (to me). Eurocommuter 00:08, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

(Diagrams) Dziekuje! Did you notice my attempt at a multiscale map? (click on one diagram and scroll down to the description) One can do better (clicking on the map, opening articles on specific objects) in svg but I have no clue how wiki handles svg; will try one day Eurocommuter 11:12, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed the multiscale thumbnails, although I wasn't sure what they were for until I clicked them (I havent seen this solution before). Another good idea! Deuar 20:39, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for the edits, Piotr. Feels good not to be alone in this obscure area…The total mass of the objects is thought to decrease with a power of the distance to the Sun. I have a conjecture, (can’t publish though, no original work is allowed on wiki…) The number of editors follows the same power low Eurocommuter 15:21, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, there is definately a trend like that... also: the number of editors decreases along with the mass of the object. I hang around a lot in the asteroids, and the density of editors is similar to the TNOs -- low once you leave asteroid (a vandal and crank attractor). On the other end of the scale you get e.g. Sun or planet which are huge vandal magnets - had them on my watchlist once, and it wasn't a pretty sight. I dare not put poor old Uranus on my watchlist...
By the way, your diagrams are getting more and more interesting. e.g. Image:TheTransneptunians_73AU.svg I hadn't realised there's a centaur bigger than Chiron out there. Deuar 22:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


Thank you! I’ve spent a week trying to render colour indices as "reasonable" RGB by filtering the simulated spectra and the colours seem still… odd! (e.g. 2002 QZ32 in centaurs). Rendering the albedo in linear gradient proved also challenging and a bit disappointing: the differences are too big; had to cheat and went non-linear. There’s no light there anyway, right? NASA’s images of Pluto are also "software artist's" impressions I suppose…Good to have you back! Eurocommuter 22:52, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Thermal method[edit]

Agree, a better explanation. Remains to mention the assumptions about the rotational speed and the orientation of the rotation axis to the observer…! One day someone should write a few formulas in a separate article I suppose. Eurocommuter 22:38, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

It starts to get involved at that point, a separate article is probaby not a bad idea. There's also the issue of the thermal properties of the surface. There was a massive work by J.S. Lagerros on this [1][2][3][4] (which I haven't really read) Deuar 10:10, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Binary/double planet[edit]

I see the addition you've made to the planet page. I'm a keen follower of astronomy but I've never heard of the term "binary planet", although I am aware its used for Stars. Could you possibly point me in the direction of where you got this term from, and how it is distinguished from a double planet? I have no big beef about this but I just want to make sure the article is accurate. 01:31, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I saw the term here on the New Horizons website (that page has an interesting animation, as well). Actually from what I can see there's no real consensus on the terminology, i've seen at least "double", "twin" and "binary" referring to two related objects of similar mass, and I suspect there are no universally accepted rules. I think "binary" is the best for a pair like Pluto-Charon because of the analogy to stars which do a similar gravitational dance. If you have know how to make the planet page more accurate, go for it! Deuar 09:54, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Asteroids: families[edit]

I’ve just discovered your graphs Flora. Fantastic!!! Eurocommuter 17:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

PS. The link to data (in the image description) appears to be broken.[5]

Well, um, thanks! Actually, I got the idea to represent asteroid sizes from your diagrams on Trans-Neptunian Object and surrounds.
I worry that my diagrams might be too cluttered, though.
That link didn't last long, did it! what a pain. fixing... Deuar 20:30, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Cluttering is a potential problem. I’m trying to mitigate it by using ‘two-level’ diagrams, first with only major objects for illustration and the second with details (i.e. cluttered) for an eager reader. Talking about inspiration, I took the e/i graph hint from your diagrams, and the funny thing is, it does show the KBO families (cubewanos v plutinos for example) as (kind of…) distinct. The problem is to render it in readable way and I’m not exactly an artist… Still, the first attempt should be out there (cubewanos, I think) tonight/tomorrow. Eurocommuter 21:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
The two-level diagram is an interesting idea, i'll have to have a think about how to apply that! I always find that "if I could only make this diagram two times bigger, it wouldn't be cluttered", but of course those asteroid family diagrams are at the practical size limit already. Deuar 15:50, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
What do you think of my first attempt at using cartographic colours for e/t charts ?(cubewano) Eurocommuter 16:46, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
That's a pretty cute idea - and I bet you had a bit of fun trying to set the right bin size. Have you tried making the i/e ranges smaller so that the colorful part of the graphs takes up more space? Then again with only a few hundred bodies it's a tradeoff with how much blockiness is tolerable. I usually end up using scatter diagrams (like your main graph) because I find them easier to understand at a glance, but they also have their own problems with showing structure both in the dense and rarefied regions... Finally, That's a lot of interesting information in one diagram! Deuar 10:12, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! To avoid the overloading, I split the new one scattered disk so the text comment can follow more easily. On the e/i ranges: I’ve got the auto-scale written (a logarithmic scale for colours for example is supposed to handle valleys and peaks) but as I’m comparing different families I felt better to avoid different ranges between graphs. Eurocommuter 13:10, 27 February 2006 (UTC) PS. Have you read my half-cooked comment about your diagrams (below)?

Thanks for the corrections to my (IP) edits. Tried to modify your Inc vs. ecc. plot image with similar color scheme as in AsteroidIncAu.png - Image:AsteroidIncEcc.png, but it has some difficulties, as noted.Dreg743 07:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello, the color scheme on the map was mostly done by the Kirkwood gaps, but boundaries of some prominent outer belt asteroid families were also used... (Koronis, Eos, Hygiea). There are Kirkwood gaps at least in some of these divisions. Also, the inner belt (A) has a kirkwood gap, this I didn't use because I couldn't find it in the Inc vs. AU plot. Cheers. Dreg743 08:28, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I guess the division went about 2.06 (1:4), 2.5 (1:3), 2.73 (Ceres), 2,82 (2:5), 2.95 (3:7), 3,046 (4:9), 3.08 (Themis) and 3.27 (1:2). Dreg743 06:31, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Please see Image:DivisionsMainBelt.gif, does that make any sense? Dreg743 09:08, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Asteroid families -3D phase space[edit]

Peter, I’m looking at your diagrams (Flora) trying to imagine the 3D phase space. Namely i/a diagram (on the left) as the front face of a cube and i/e diagram (on the right) as its right side. Orbits on the front face are circular and orbits behind them are getting more and more eccentric. With this thinking, one can easily imagine the two clumps (visual regroupings) in 3D. (The one at ~6 deg is 'in front' of the one at 2 degs). Maybe you could hint this type of thinking to the reader and help with some perspective plotting the diagram. For example, Ariadne on the left diagram should be slightly in front (smaller e) and you could help this perception by making Ariadne’s disk hiding partly the Flora’s disk. Using a sort of z-ordering and greying out the objects not members of the Flora family you could help the reader to imagine the diagrams as projections of the 3D phase space. I have no idea if this would help other people but this is the way I struggle with 3D+ It could be a part of a simplified 1st level graph, suggesting the position of Flora’s family in 3D phase space in relation to other families and Jupiter resonances. What d’you think? Eurocommuter 23:13, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I'll have to have a think about implementing your idea - it's very interesting. I also usually try to imagine 3D with a similar method to yours: faces of a cube etc. If it was a surface it'd be easy, but isolated points in space like this are always a major problem for me. Funnily I find it easier to imagine the 3D if there is no explicitly 3D diagram but just the projections (I think the perspective-like diagrams boggle me visually somehow, and I find it hard to get a handle on what the actual shape of the "cloud of objects" is). That's why I tend to go with projections. What I find easiest to grasp for 3D diagrams is something like a colour-coded elevation map with the 3rd dimension represented purely by colours or shading (like your recent diagram). Unfortunately that's only good for surfaces :( In any case, i'll have a go at the kind of diagram you suggest once i have a bit of a think about it, and we'll see.. Deuar 13:58, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Peter, I went through your impressive and growing collection of families Gefion family et al. Ceres is sure a sizeable interloper! Is 93 Minerva a member? Would be a better (bigger) choice than the current namesake! On Vesta family I've discovered the name for the big agglomeration one cannot miss on Flora. A master ‘big picture’ diagram with arrows to major families would help IMHO. It could become a Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Belt! As for me, I’ve added a house-wife-level (almost) physical space orbit plot to illustrate scattered disk v classical. What d’you think? Eurocommuter 12:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
(your comment on my projection)Ouch. Touché. Thanks for the remark on the strange projection! I spend too much time fighting with Java/svg to get a clear diagram, then quickly type in the description without thinking….Well, maybe it was a bug but I’d pretend it was a feature… Cheers Eurocommuter 22:13, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Borusewicz.JPG[edit]

Thanks for uploading Image:Borusewicz.JPG. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Wikipedia:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me, or ask them at the Image legality questions page. Thank you. Stan 14:26, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Very interesting that the Senate website has adopted GFDL! I would suggest doing a couple things to avoid future confusion; first, create a special category for all these images (template is overkill, cat is sufficient), and put a more extended discussion of the situation on the category's page. You might also consider moving these images to commons, so en:, pl:, etc, can all use the same images, again making the special category with explanation. Stan 19:14, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Reference style[edit]

Hi! Thanks for expanding the asteroid articles, especially 15 Eunomia looks really comprehensive now. When you insert the references, please consider using the new <ref> referencing style -- it is far more powerful than the various tweaks used earlier because it is formatted automatically by the code. It is really easy to use: In the first occurrence of a source, write <ref name="name">(text that will be visible in references section)</ref> and in later occurrences just the <ref name="name"/> tag. Insert the <references/> tag where you want to see the references. The stuff put into the <ref></ref> tags is not actually inside any template, so it's safe to use in an infobox, too. See for example 258 Tyche article how this is done. Also, the use of article source templates (Wikipedia:Template messages/Sources of articles) helps managing the standard citation style. For more information, see Wikipedia:Footnotes, or drop a message.--Jyril 22:34, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, that's good to hear. ;) Really, I can't completely disagree with you in the earlier post. Putting reference information within the tags makes the code unnecessarily messy, but it seems to be inavoidable for now. Hopefully the system is developed further to more user friendly. However, it makes references less likely getting mixed up which is in my opinion more important. Actually, a proper referencing system should have been included in the MediaWiki software when it was developed.--JyriL talk 18:03, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Flamarande, + Quo vadis[edit]

Hi, I have a doubt which you might resolve. Reading the article about Henryk Sienkiwicz, one can read that he recieved the Nobel prize because his outstanding works (i.e. several books). But in a lot of articles it is written that he recieved the prize mainly because of Quo vadis. Now, is the first statement (several books) a bit of "political correctness" by part of the Nobel-comite. or is the second statement a bit of english egocentric worldview? Perhaps both are true. You may answer here, please. Thanks Flamarande 17:41, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm not a literature buff, so I don't have any hard knowledge (like a reference) to give you, but here's some facts from a Polish perspective, and an educated (hopefully) guess:
  • The Nobel prize site says "because of his outstanding merits as an epic writer".
  • He wrote a fair number of historical epics - pl:Henryk Sienkiewicz lists them - all but the last one under the "Powieści" heading are historical epics.
  • Quo Vadis is best known outside of Poland, because most of the other works deal with various episodes of Polish history, and so, presumably might be considered less "universal" than a Roman epic in some sense. It's reasonable to assume that the popularity of Quo Vadis at the time is probably what brought him to the attenttion of the Nobel committee. It was also one of his more recent works at the time when he was awarded the Nobel prize.
  • In contrast, in Poland, his best known works are the Trylogia (Trilogy), which have been read and liked by almost every Pole alive (even today). In fact I don't think I've ever met any Pole who hasn't read it. In my opinion, it's really well written, with a gripping and complex plot, so it remains popular just because it's fun to read. (Having said that, Quo Vadis, and several other of his books: Krzyżacy, W pustyni i w puszczy, are also very well known in Poland). All made into movies.
  • I'm guessing that once Sienkiewicz was being considered as a candidate for the prize, they investigated his other works, and found them to be of "outstanding merit" as well - hence the decision to award him the prize, and give the above explanation.
Hope that's useful to you. Deuar 18:21, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, ok. I can see that it is a bit of both then. Someday, someone will corect the various articles (I would do it, but I am too lazy). Flamarande 18:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Same here. Well - actually, also, my musings are just educated guesses, so i'm not sure whether to charge in there and change all the articles. :-) Deuar 18:45, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Deuar (long time no see, and all that :). I have noticed that you have improved the map used in the article Western Europe. I am quite interested in learning how to work with maps to improve other articles. Could you point me to the correct place for that? Is it very dificult? I am mainly interrested in small improvements (like the one you did) using allready provided maps and then "paint" them, and perhaps add small stuff. much obliged. Flamarande 17:51, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Flamarande, sorry for not replying earlier - i've been away for a week and a bit. I don't have any real wisdom to share with the maps - I just loaded it up in an image editing program (GIMP in my case, since I was on a linux box, but even Microsoft Paint will do) and used the "bucket fill" tool, etc. Then saved as a png format to avoid losses. Good to see there's a couple of us trying to hold the fort on "AU" over at Western Europe ;-) Deuar 13:34, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


Thank you for your suggessions. I have made some changes. Scalable Vector Graphics is a quite good vector graphics format and it is easy to change with the free Inkscape. Unfortunately the Wikipedia renders it sometimes incorrect. (I must arrow heads write as triangles and now the big omega as a curve.) -- Harp 09:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Re: Lightcurve Shape models[edit]

>I wonder what your thoughts are on this - do you think the reconstructions are reasonable and qualitatively trustworthy? Do you have any suggestions for better wording when describing them in the article?<

Even Mikko Kaasalainen, the leading proponent of the lightcurve-inversion technique, admits that the lightcurve-derived shape models are only accurate for large-scale structure. His models typically contain only tens of facets, which is enough to obtain a good idea of the object's elongation and perhaps any large-scale asymmetries, but insufficient to identify surface features. To give an example: a large filled-in crater cannot be distinguished from a facet (an area of surface with no relief) or a surface that is relatively smooth but carpeted in smaller craters. I think the best idea is to say what the lightcurves can tell us about the large-scale structure and no more. Michaelbusch 16:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

>One pointy and one broad end trustworthy?

Maybe, maybe not. A narrow end could also be an area with different scattering properties in the optical.Michaelbusch 03:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for commenting on the Pando (Quaking Aspen) article. We are currently trying to have it achieve featured article status. Any input on its peer review would be helpful. Thank you again. Globeism 16:19, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Naiad Voyager.png[edit]

Thanks for uploading Image:Naiad Voyager.png. Wikipedia gets hundreds of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Wikipedia, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 20:07, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Doh! forgot the tag. That's a quick bot. Deuar 20:32, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Notice of arbitration[edit]

An arbitration request involving you has been filed.--AndriyK 20:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging for Image:Moons of solar system v2.jpg[edit]

Thanks for uploading Image:Moons of solar system v2.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 17:06, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Sure OrphanBot, no need to be hasty, i'm just in the process of writing the caption... Deuar 17:11, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


Hi. In the Valentina Tereshkova article you changed the translation of Чайка from "seagull" to "lapwing". My russian-english dictionary has: Чайка - (sea)gull, but you may be right. What makes you go for lapwing? --Bucephalus 09:12, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Bucephalus, i've changed it back, since i'm not so sure anymore. My evidence for Чайка=lapwing may have been too circumstantial - I had based it on the polish word czajka (pronounced identically to russian Чайка), which means lapwing. In polish this is a word used much more often than seagull=mewa for pseudonyms, naming boats, aliases, etc. etc. Mewa also sounds lame in polish. Anyway, so i figured it's probably the same story in closely-related Russian. However, after your comment I tracked down the article ru:Чайка which mentions the genus Larus that is indeed, seagull. That'll teach me! Thanks fot pointing this error out. Deuar 12:56, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


The sentence is used in almost every Politics of article. The reason why I prefered this texts is that it about Politics of, not about the country itself. Electionworld = Wilfried (talk 20:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Adding "liberation" to "Words to avoid"[edit]

I filled the proposal for Words to avoid. Please find it here. I would be thankfull for your commennts, suggestions and corrections.--AndriyK 15:51, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for your comment! In August, I will be soliciting my colleagues to write a series of entries on other topics that are either missing or lacking depth in the field of meteoritics. I will also search for better images and graphics. Feel free to make suggestions on how this should all be done, as I am quite an amateur when it comes to wikipedia. Jeff

X-type asteroid[edit]

For the record: X-types are by no means granted to be metallic -- M-types *may* be metallic, but E and P are definitely non-metallic. Sorry, mate! --DerHerrMigo 15:18, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I completely agree. That statement of mine was from a while back when I didn't know much about this metallicity issue yet, and I seem to have forgotten about it. oops. Thanks for spotting and fixing it! Deuar 16:58, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Asteroid pictures & deletion tags[edit]

Thank you for your advice, actually I knew {{NowCommons}} existed on, but I didn't even dare to try it on the English one. I would correct the mistake myself, but somebody has already duly cancelled the two pictures. Anyway I uploaded them on Commons with the same name, and no link needs to be changed. Sorry for messing up and bye ;-)

--Leaden´skij 19:08, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Oh. I thought I had copied all the captions. I'm sorry if anything got lost, but I'm pretty sure it can't have happened. — Leaden´skij 19:16, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

regarding external links[edit]

Please do not use the url parameter for cite journal if the article is not fully acessible. Doi or normal paper references should be favored over url that might not be accessible to the casual reader (DOIs usually access to an abstract, if not article.) Circeus 21:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

No problem. I'm always willing to do some link/data sleuthing myself. I do that a lot these days. Circeus 22:32, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


Describing the PiS as "conservative" is simply misleading, as the party advocates very different policies from those of conservative parties of Europe, including aggressive nationalism, homophobia and anti-semitism - it clearly has close ties to the anti-semitic broadcaster Radio Maryja. I would compare the PiS to the NPD of Germany rather than the conservative CDU. Skruee 15:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Exotic code fix in Tisserand's parameter[edit]

Thanks for the strange code fix, Piotr. Long time, BTW, how are you doing? I’ve been tied up in real life for a couple of months and haven’t contributed a single line. Hopefully, I’m back.Eurocommuter 21:23, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

P-type asyeroids[edit]

Piotr; do we have P-type asteroids? What are they? I’m playing with irregular satellites and P-type pop up in papers I’m reading…Thanks Eurocommuter 20:46, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Planet >> Suggested Narrow Definitions[edit]

My apologies if this is not how debate should be carried out regarding wikipedia entries but...

I disagree with your deletion of my text. From the current meeting in Prague:

Some panel members say they favor counting any object which is large enough that its gravity has made it round. If the object is spinning, a small bulge would be tolerated. "We're talking about no more than four or five new planets," says Iwan Williams.


Thanks, fink

Hi Fink, i've been away for a week and a half, that's why I didn't get back to you earlier. I'm really sorry - it seems I reverted your edit along with some pseudoreligious diatribe that appeared just after yours. My bad in a big way. Deuar 16:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


re: ibitira's status as a non HED:

Suggestions appreciated[edit]

Piotr, I've re-worked Sycorax (except for the data in the infobox). As you have a lot of experience with asteroid-related articles, I’d appreciate your opinion before I lash out on the remaining 99 rocks. Thank you Eurocommuter 20:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Eurocommuter, i've been away for a week and a half, hence no reply. I've grown a bit tired of the asteroids as well myself, after trawling through maybe a hundred or so, and have been having a go at some of the rocks around Neptune and Saturn. All these small moons have the appealing but also annoying property that there is no big fat table like the IRAS data that covers them all, so you have to search through lots of papers for physical data. I reckon lash out at the rest of the rabble by all means. Imho what you've doing over at Sycorax and Margaret is good and much needed. It's always great if you can say something (anything!) about these small moons apart from a dry recitation of orbital elements and size calculated from an arbitrarily assumed albedo. I find that a search on ADS for the moon's name often gives interesting results and finds the latest data (if any). Apart from that, i'm a bit of a newbie there as well.
By the way, what do you mean by "Its exceptionally high inclination (~56°) is close to the limit of stability" over at Margaret (moon)? Sounds interesting. Deuar 16:41, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Thank for your response, Peter. Indeed, there’s not much about individual moons (colour and IR spectra for some) ; I’m rather interested in them as a class plus in dynamical/colour groupings, origin theories, resonances etc. A for Margaret, (sorry have not finished this one): above some 55 deg the Kozai resonance pumps up the eccentricity (in exchange for inclination) and they finish out of Hill radius for the section of their orbit and, ultimately, get lost. Numerical integration confirmed that as well. I haven’t inserted the references yet.
A propos Kozai, I found there’s currently not enough on wiki on the three-body problem to understand the origin/orbits of irregulars so I started adding stuff (e.g. Jacobi integral) but my LaTex is poor so it will take time. See you around. Eurocommuter 18:28, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Sideways chicken egg? P=)[edit]

Regarding the clarification in Ellipsoid, shouldn't the "chicken egg" be "standing up", so that the poles are different and the equator is spherical? ~Kaimbridge~ 15:03, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Right - good point. The so-called "egg" is now vertical :-) Deuar 15:16, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
That's alright, but...(and this may just be my personal interpretation and preference/prejudice) wouldn't/shouldn't it (more likely) be the other way——i.e., the longer, prolate end "hanging down"? P=) ~Kaimbridge~ 15:42, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Beats me - the "heavy end down" configuration seemed more natural to me, for example, but feel free to change it if you like. Deuar 15:48, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Done with Pluto, let's see... Neptune![edit]

(Neptune) The term ice-giant is used in the TNO literature, opposing the gas giants and the (outer) ice-giants… Even the models of origin are different it seems. Of course today is not the day to (re)define things (just kidding:). Hope you could enjoy the webcast from IAU! Eurocommuter 16:54, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Asteroid Pole Directions[edit]

Re your comments on the Pallas talk page: astronomers typically give asteroid pole directions only in ecliptic coordinates (lambda, beta), both because ecliptic coordinates are more relevant and to avoid confusion with stellar coordinates or sky positions, which are given in RA-DEC. You may want to convert all pole directions to this standard. Michaelbusch

Yes, indeed ecliptic coordinates are much more sensible and much more used. I used to put only them into the articles I edited, but other editors complained because they're more used to the RA/DEC coordinates. We could have a go at revamping them to straight ecliptic coords again and see if there is a cry of protest (there's probably a dozen or two articles to do). Deuar 14:31, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Ideally, give both sets of coords. Ecliptic coords make better physical sense, but if you want to see what the polar sky of the object is (in Celestia, Megastar, or the like), you'll need RA and DEC.
Urhixidur 17:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

burst of entropy[edit]

Thanks, I followed your advice and sought the calm in the obscurity of Ananke and Carme groups. As for the planet business I’m happy that Pluto has been put where it belongs. A new chunk of the Solar system has been discovered in the last 10 years and the changes were necessary, I believe. Eurocommuter 10:30, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


Requested link to the JPL NEO Programme Abyssoft 02:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Right, that's the link to the NEO program homepage. Do they actually list masses somewhere in there? If as I suspect not, are they just calculated based on the size and an assumed density? Then it'd be good to a) know what is that assumed density, and b) indicate in the list that it's just a very rough estimate by using a tilde. Cheers, Deuar 17:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Many neo's have individual pages. Here are a few examples...

Name Mass in kg Page
2000 SG344 ~(7.1e+07 kg)
2004 VD17 ~(2.6e+11 kg)
1994 GK ~(1.5e+08 kg)

(and sorry about the subscripts)Abyssoft 20:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Feedback on image requested, [6]small solar system bodies distibution Abyssoft 04:42, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the feed back I will attempt to make it based on semi-major axis and set to a log scale. The biggest problem is it's from a data set of all known objects with known orbital params (~340K objects) and my plot program only permits 60K objects per plot. I think I will attempt to simplify the data to reduce the number of points. I will try to have a new one up for eval on monday. Abyssoft 01:51, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Quite correct on the deduction of I had to paste it together. Per your recommendation I have found a log scale that will work and still let me past it together. I'm going with a natural log progression. I will still have to paste it together but I've also been able to greatly reduce the number of points by reducing the precission of the plot points, down to about 55K points this should still provide enough for a good display. Abyssoft 16:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok new image up still need to add planets, Hill sphere for Sol, and proper bars for the 2nd section. [7] Abyssoft 05:12, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

re: asteroid image[edit]

Thanks, but I didn't actually create it :-). The credit goes to mdf, who created it for "solar system." If there are any other articles you feel it could be used, please let me know. Serendipodous 12:27, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Small sats[edit]

Hey, good to see you working on the other side i.e. inner moons when I’m attacking by the other end! (Haven’t got to Saturn yet). Please have a look on my draft template (e.g. used in S/2002 N 1) for a shorter infobox for the irregulars. Comments greatly appreciated. Eurocommuter 20:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments! The issue your raised is a very interesting one and I’ll try to give my modest point of view on it. It boils down to forgetting about Kepler and linear secular perturbations for the irregulars adventuring at the limits of Hill sphere.

The mean is defined by the (specified) source of the data . There’re basically two sources:

  • Jacobson (JPL), where mean means over at least 1000 years.
  • Independent, often very long integrations (e.g. Nesforny 4.5 Gy backwards, Holman 10My forward)

I’ve chosen to use JPL as it is one click away and to use other sources for the long-term or the origin theories only.

There are big differences if you compare the irregulars with the asteroids:

  • As you mentioned, irregular satellites have orbits based on a very small number of observations (i.e. very poorly known)
  • Even more importantly, the orbits are hugely perturbed (little to do with the Keplerian orbits). Linear perturbations are useless for most of them. The changes in very short term are huge E.g. Pasiphae can change the (osculating) semimajor as much as 1 Gm in a couple of years (its orbital period), inclination by 5 degrees and eccentricity by an incredible 0.5 some 24 years (twice the Jupiter period! In other words, we’re not talking about secular changes, we’re talking about basically different osculating elements for the next year (or orbit, whichever shorter)

Consequently, I believe the Epoch does not add any value (unlike for the osculating elements). Epochs are indeed specified in the source (the epoch for the starting osculating elems for the integration), but there’s no simple way to go from one epoch to another, so for the purpose of the articles I felt they are useless. Of course, I also provide the link for the IAU ephemeris site producing the osculating elems for the given epoch if someone wants to locate them (well, mag=24+ for some)

The mean elements (defined via integration) serve to define the potential families. Again, unlike for the asteroids the proper elements are not known and to be frank I haven’t found so far even a single mention of them in the orbital theories for the irregulars (but of course I do not read everything). Eurocommuter 18:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Like an omega with a bar but ... different[edit]

Piotr, do you happen to now how to express in Latex the curly pi (barred omega) as used commonly for longitude of the periapsis. I mean the special omega-like symbol, without using a bar above the standard omega. Thanks Eurocommuter 19:24, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!. Applied. Eurocommuter 10:59, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the mess I left in resonant TNO! I wish could say I left a few errors intentionally to see if someone actually reads it…It’s OK now. I liked the varpis too much, so I put them liberally here and there whether needed or not. I was suddenly hurled into what the natives call ‘the rat race’ and can visit these pages only occasionally but hope to be back in the some/near future. Eurocommuter 20:00, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Is the curly pi only used inside astronomy to denote the longitude of the periapsis or is there any more possibility of use? 20:10, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Asteroid (and other) Binaries[edit]

Please check/limit the damage in asteroid moon as I tangentially entered your area with my very skimpy knowledge. Thanks Eurocommuter 10:01, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Inner satellites[edit]

Would you be interested in contributing something of your knowledge to the stub Inner satellite? I started it, but I am not really very knowledgeable on the subject. RandomCritic 11:12, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Ellipsoidal a, b, c[edit]

Hi again, Deuar! Regarding the identities/positions of radii a, b, c on an ellipsoid, it seems the double axes of triaxial ellipsoids are perpendicular axes on the equator, not not the north vs. south poles! See these discussions, 1st and 2nd, on my talk page (the second one is a bit fragmented——and extended P=)——so you'll have to skim through it P=). So, basically, "x" on an ellipse is "x" and "y" on the ellipsoid and "y" is "z" (though, of course, in 2D cartography it is still "x/a-equatorial, y/b-polar"!!!——confusing, eh?!?), thus oblate is a>c and prolate is a<c. Plus, most sources use as both longitude and angular eccentricity!! I'm finishing up on a major rewrite, including changing "x, y, z" to "X, Y, Z" for the ellipsoid and "a, b, c" to "ax, ay, b".  ~Kaimbridge~ 18:41, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


I've been trying for something more orange, but I haven't been able to mix up a color that's satisfactory, i.e. not too yellow, too dark, or too bright. I'll keep trying. Anyway, thanks for all the help on the satellites by diameter table! Much appreciated. RandomCritic 21:46, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Main Asteroid Belt[edit]

I suggest you don't stay that asteroids such as 87 Sylvia aren't in the main belt. In common parlance in the asteroid science community, all asteroids between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter are referred to as the main belt, even distant groups like the Hildas. The Trojans are just outside the belt and Mars in just inside it. You could make a good argument for objects like Sylvia being outside the core of the belt, but that is semantics. Michaelbusch 17:05, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi, ok - I wasn't aware of that, I'll fix up the wording in Sylvia in a moment. The terminology in a couple of articles probably needs some tweaking as well. What about high inclination groups, like e.g. 2 Pallas? To what degree do they get referred to as the main belt? Cheers, Deuar 17:09, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Pretty much anything with semi-major axis between that of Mars and Jupiter and inclination less than say 45º would be classed as an MBA (the inclination cutoff is fuzzy). Certainly Pallas is in the belt. I fixed Sylvia. Michaelbusch 17:13, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Carstensz Pyramid[edit]

Hi, you try to ask some good questions about Carstensz Pyramid / Puncak Jaya. I have seen at least five different heights for Carstensz, 5030, 5029, and three below 5Km. The measurements below 5Km are all Indonesian / post Freeport measurements; a cynic might suspect the Jakarta lobby (Bechtel Inc, TNI Generals, Freeport and other corporations) want a figure below 5Km to lessen public interest in the mountains and Freeport and other US mining operations under Indonesian license. A reasonable person might also suspect this. Plenty of Germans and Dutch people have climb Cartensz during the pass ten years; the only thing you need to do is convince the TNI that you have _nil_ interest in the local people, or taking photos of the local townships, treat the Papuan people like idiots and the TNI will trust you. 14:53, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

This is not surprising to me, unfortunately. You wouldn't know a reference (web or otherwise) that talks about any of this would you? - we could quote it in the article then. Deuar 15:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

To explain the map[edit]

I agree with you that there should be some index explaining the colors. However the different grays are for two totally different reasons. The light gray is for any country that was neutral. Yugoslavia has a dark gray (dark green), since it was part of the Non-Aligned Movement, which Yugoslavia formed along with Egypt and India. Albania has red stripes since they were not part of the Warsaw Pact, but still had a lot of economic ties to the Soviet Union and later China. Thanks and greetings, Vseferović 17:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Unconfirmed objects category[edit]

I was looking through some old edits, and I noticed some discussion on Talk:S/2004 S 6 about a category called 'Unconfirmed objects of the Solar System'. I brought it up on WikiProject Astronomical objects, and I thought you'd be interested. --Patteroast 16:35, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Why irrelevant?[edit]

You have done [8]. Why? The similarity of the Lithuanian flag with many African ones is obvious and it is very easy to get confused by this similarity and a fact that such a combination of colors is very uncommon on flags of European countries. Why a reader should not be informed that it has nothing to do with them because it was created independently and earlier? No kidding. Miraceti 19:58, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi! I am not going to push the text into the article. I understand that the form of the statement is quite odd. Whenever I see Lithuanian flag, I recall my Lithuanian friends who use to say Lithuania is a Banana Republic and even its flag looks like from Africa. I know no written note saying something similar. However, the similarity between flags of Lithuania and some developing countries is, in my opionion, quite clear. That was my reason why to write it. Miraceti 20:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Your proposal sounds good! Let's try it. BR. Miraceti 22:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Some order among (bigger) small rocks[edit]

How are you Peter? Long time! After the asteroids and irregular satellites it seems that TNO can also belong to collisional families. Brought me back from wiki semi-retirement….Eurocommuter 23:00, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the data available seem limited and consequently the theory a bit bold. We’ll see what the competitors will publish. As for staying active I’m not entirely in control of my time, unfortunately. In spite of occasional editor discouraging me of contributing for some time, there are also positive re-enforcements. For example, I had not realised that the diagrams I have plotted a year ago would be still in use after so long. Flattered, I feel shamed into updating them with the current data (on-going). Eurocommuter 16:08, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


Sure. I wasn't planning on making any more changes anyway. Serendipodous 20:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Not a problem. To be honest, I never know what to tackle next, or where to start when I do, so when someone gives me a small and tidy problem to work on I'm kind of grateful! Spiral Wave 16:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

POTD notification[edit]

Hi Deuar,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture Image:Moons of solar system v7.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on June 11, 2007. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2007-06-11. howcheng {chat} 17:04, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Asteroid belt mass[edit]

If you wouldn't mind I'd like to discuss your modification of Asteroid belt article concerning the proportion of the total mass formed by the largest asteroids. The referenced mass range of the belt is 3.0-3.6×10^21 kg. It appears that the mass of the four asteroids you list are:

1 Ceres 94.6 x 10^19kg
2 Pallas 22 x 10^19kg
4 Vesta 27 x 10^19kg
10 Hygeia 8.6 x 10^19kg
Total 152.2 x 10^19kg

which is barely larger than half the lowest end of the mass range for the entire belt. If the mean value is assumed (3.3×10^21 kg) then your statement would be incorrect. I think I would very much prefer a more conservative assertion. Do you disagree? — RJH (talk) 19:00, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I modified the article wording slightly so I think that'll address it. — RJH (talk) 19:39, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi, sure, your edit was a good way out, since the mass is so uncertain anyway. Deuar 14:13, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. — RJH (talk) 14:51, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


A few days ago I reverted one of your edits to Eris (dwarf planet), and I just realized that I accidentally marked it as a "rvv". I meant "rv", and I just wanted to say that I'm sorry. I honestly did not mean to do such a thing, and I dunno why it took me so long to notice my mistake, but... Anyway, I feel terrible about it, and just wanted to let you know that I did not mean to say that your edit was in any way vandalism. Vsst 00:32, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

No worries, typos do happen! :-) See you around Deuar 10:31, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Re Ammonium sulfide[edit]

As a sulfur enthusiast, I was glad to see your comment about ammonium sulfide being a big thing for certain planets. Could you supply a general (reviewish, not rsch paper) to this fact? Also, ammonium sulfide is completely colorless, (as are water and ammonia) so where exactly is the redness suppose to come from? Thanks and keep up the good work. --Smokefoot 21:19, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Uranus infobox[edit]

If you don't mind, could you have a look at Uranus's FAC page? Tony1 just posted a whole lot of requests about the infobox and I haven't a clue what much of them mean. Thanks. Serendipodous 16:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Uranian atmosphere[edit]

Composition of the atmosphere of Uranus depends on altitude. Molar fraction of helium begins to decrease above homopause that is ~ 500-1000 km above 1 bar level. Methane mixing ratio depends on temperature. For instance, in the tropopause (0.1 bar, 50 km above 1 bar level) it is less then 10-4, because temperature is only 53 K. Methane simply freezes out. On the other hand methane cloud base is near 1.3 bar, and here methane mixing ratio should be near the saturation level, which is around 0.02 at this temperature of 85 K. Below 1.3 bar mixing ratio is assumed to be the same and this value — 0.02 is thought to be the bulk mixing ratio in Uranus. In the deep troposphere other less volatile materials can be present: ammonia, hydrogen sulfide etc.

I wrote this lengthy explanation with only one goal in mind — to show that it is meaningless to speek about chemical composition without specifying the altitude. Composition is very different at different levels of Uranian atmopshere.

The information about chemical composition can be found in many sources. You can see for example Lunine 1993, which is ref 9 in the article. Ref 51 provides good info about deep troposphere and ref 54 about stratosphere and tropopause. Ruslik 11:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Do you think you could give Uranus a copyedit?[edit]

I've been editing Uranus too deeply to look at it objectively; I need a pair of eyes to look at it fresh. If you don't have time, could you ask someone else? It will need someone with some experience in technical language. Serendipodous 08:54, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Though Ruslik deserves most of the credit by now. Serendipodous 16:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

External link[edit]

Hello. I see you also reverted that off-topic external link added by anonymous IP to Islam in Poland article. However, he keeps adding it. Should we continue reverting him? - Darwinek 20:39, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Imperial values of measurements[edit]

I've removed all imperial units from all info boxes on Pluto, Neptune, Uranus, Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury and the Moon. There was a smattering of imperial units in the main articles and so I removed those too. Interestingly, Jupiter had no imperial units at all in the main article and some bizarre ones in the infobox - density of the planet in lb/US Gallon!

It looks a lot neater now and is easier to read. I hope that clears up your concerns over consistency. Regards, Jim77742 14:33, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes I had a brief look at some others and they seemed ok. I'll do a proper walkthrough though. I'll also make sure that everything else is consistent as well - I did read some valid criticism in the FA nomination of Uranus and it would be great if all infoboxes were identical. I'll let you know as I go so you can give back any comments. I'll format numbers according to MOSNUM, link the first mention of each unit. If anything else pops into your mind let me know.

I'll do the Sun next - it has average velocity in the stellar neighborhood in ft/sec and density in lb/cubic ft. Just bizarre. I'll leave Earth to last. No doubt it'll have density in grains(avoirdupois)/cubic furlong. Regards, 08:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Another update. Mars's formatting was really bad so I've attempted to fix it up. Before I go ahead and get the others to match it could you have a look and tell me what you think? The basic changes are: link the first unit only; no spaces in decimals, no parentheses for conversions (e.g. km to AU).

I've also removed imperial units from the Sun's template. I'll attack the formatting after reviewing Mars. Jim77742 08:51, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: Infobox Planet[edit]

I like the discovery site better than discovery location because I saw in the list of asteroids articles uses discovery site instead of discovery location from where in the world discovers asteroids. I think that discovery site is more commonly used than discovery location. For last couple of days, I was changing from discovery_location to discovery_site in some extrasolar planet articles since I was changed in Template:Infobox Planet. BlueEarth 21:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

{{Infobox Planet}}[edit]

Bonjour / dzien dobry / hello. I should have mentioned that it will take time for the test category for {{Infobox Planet}} to be populated with pages once you add the category to the template, as it takes a while before the template is updated on all of the pages it is in use by. I'd recommend you leave somewhere in the region of an hour for the category to populate, depending on the size of the job queue (see Special:Statistics). Mike Peel 15:13, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

National conservatism[edit]

Great work on national conservatism! Thank you. --Checco 11:46, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


Recently I submitted Callisto article to FAC. However FAC seems to be semidead now—only two reviews in five days. So, may I ask you to review this article? Ruslik 17:22, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Verbose explanation[edit]

Hiya Deuar! Have you seen my verbose explanation for mean radius? P=)  ~Kaimbridge~10:04, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


Hi Deuar. You are one of my wiki-pals so I was surprised when I reverted one of your edits to Neptune. (??) Since you were changing a lot of numbers I assume (might be my mistake right there) that you simply inverted some numbers in your head. See Talk:Neptune#Orbital_Period about your 14 August 2007 edit and my revert. Do you have a reference that we can use for the 60,327 number?
-- Your pal Kheider 16:36, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

PO and trade unions[edit]

I write 'cos I know you are an expert of Polish politics. A user repeatedly cancelled the "[labor law]] reform to reduce the power of trade unions" from the section about the political platform of PO. Do you tink that it has been correct to remove it or not? See also Talk:Civic Platform. --Checco 12:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

J-type asteroid[edit]

Hi, I notice that the J-type asteroids are not mentioned in the asteroid spectral types article. Is this intentional?

Greetings. Harald Khan (talk) 18:03, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I didn't read properly into it when I posted this. Sorry for bothering you (or not, seeing that you haven't been active for quite a while :D). --Harald Khan Ճ 19:14, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


I noticed that you stopped editting several months ago. However if you want to help, I would ask you to make a copy-edit of the article about Europa. It is now in FAC. Ruslik (talk) 19:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

GA sweeps: 3 Juno[edit]

Hello, as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force, I have conducted a Good Article reassessment of 3 Juno, to which you have been a major contributor. I have a few concerns that should be addressed if the article is to remain listed as a GA. If you are able to help out, the reassessment can be found here. Thanks, GaryColemanFan (talk) 15:43, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

GA sweeps: 4 Vesta[edit]

Hello, as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force, I have conducted a Good Article reassessment of 4 Vesta, to which you have been a major contributor. I have a few concerns that should be addressed if the article is to remain listed as a GA. If you are able to help out, the reassessment can be found here. Thanks, GaryColemanFan (talk) 18:38, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

4 Vesta[edit]

Just a quick reminder that this article is undergoing a GA reassessment as part of the GA sweeps. It has been on hold for over two weeks, but several concerns remain. If they are not addressed soon, I will have to delist the article. Because it is part of the Main asteroid belt Featured Topic, this would also mean that the Featured Topic would be delisted. There's not much left to do, so any help you can provide would be great. The reassessment page is here. Thanks, GaryColemanFan (talk) 22:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Have you returned?[edit]

I noticed that you made an edit to your user page. Have your decided to return? Ruslik (talk) 12:52, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

A study on how to cover scientific uncertainties/controversies[edit]

Hi. I would like to ask whether you would agree to participate in a short survey on how to cover scientific uncertainties/controversies in articles pertaining to global warming and climate change (survey described here). If interested, please get in touch via my talkpage or email me Encyclopaedia21 (talk) 15:06, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Charon plutoface.png[edit]

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Replaceable fair use File:Charon plutoface.png[edit]

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Thank you. DASHBot (talk) 18:03, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Wiki markup[edit]

Hi, I'm trying to practice wiki markup by making a copy of Template:Infobox planet at User:Article editor/sandbox. But when I use it on User talk:Article editor#Infobox planet, there are a lot of blank spaces depending on which parameters are given. Could you possibly take a look at the wiki markup to find out what's causing it? Thank you! --Article editor (talk) 07:25, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Category TOC numerals[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Category TOC numerals has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 15:18, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Syria/Iraq location map road overlay.svg[edit]

Hello Deuar,

first of all, thanks for your great work on the File:Syria location map road overlay.svg, it's very helpful and looks just great.

There was a request for a same overlay for the Iraqi map some days ago and I said that I'd do it. I asked Tradedia, if there is already a png "road map" for Iraq and there actually was one. The problem is now, that I saw that this one (as well as the Syrian one) is far more vaguely drawn than yours.

How exactly did you find out and create the exact lines of the streets in Syria? It would help me a lot for my work on this overlay.

Regards, Ermanarich (talk) 15:01, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Since I'm already here:
Graphic Designer Barnstar Hires.png The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
for the creation of the File:Syria location map road overlay.svg--Ermanarich (talk) 15:06, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Details of how to make precise road overlays[edit]

So let me describe what I was doing with the map overlays. The program I used to make the svg file and all edits was Inkscape. If you're not familiar with it, it's a somewhat annoying program initially (significant learning curve), but worth the effort in the long run. It's very good once you get the hang of it. I have two svg files. In the Syrian example File:Syria_location_map_road_overlay.svg and File:Syria_location_map3.svg. It can be useful to import both into one file as separate layers sometimes to have a general idea of whether the overlay is in the right place.

Anyway, so when I want to add some roads or whatever, here is how I proceed.

1. I open an appropriate web map of the area (I recommend[9], it's very good, surprisingly so! and can be mentioned by name here since it's open source), zoom to the point that I see the features I am interested in, and take a screenshot to a png file. That's the easy part.
2. I locate a couple of well-defined reference points on the screenshot (major road intersections or road crossings of rivers seem to work well) and get coordinates for them from Google maps. Call these lon for longitude and lat for latitude (in degrees). You can find these by right-clicking on the map and choosing "what's here?". Then I convert these latitude and longitude values to pixel values (call them x,y) in the svg file. This involves a calculation, on which more below.
3. I place visible markers in the overlay svg file, at these locations x,y. Make them say 50% transparent, and fine tune their location to really put them at the x,y coordinates that I want. I usually use the selection coordinates displayed in the top bar.
4. I then load up the screenshot and make that also say 50% transparent. I make sure that I can see the markers I had just put through the screenshot. Now comes time to scale it to the right size and place it in the right spot.
5. The first thing I do in this regard is to change the screenshot's vertical scale by an appropriate amount so that It'll have the same vertical/horizontal aspect ratio as the svg file. More on this below as well. This can be done in Inkscape or at the png level as well. Inkscape is more reversible.
6. Then I move the selection around until the places I had identified on the screenshot align with the center of the markers. This entails both moving it around, and scaling (while, importantly!, keeping the aspect ratio fixed). This takes a little trial and error, and the rescaling is best done typing numbers in the properties/selection dialogues rather than trying to do it with a mouse.
7. Now the hard work is done, and the fun begins. Put the screenshot in the background, and trace the roads, rivers, etc over it. It helps to have these traces also say 50% or 70% transparent, at least initially.
8. At the end, save a backup, and remove the screenshot and markers before saving the final version.

Okay, so now I should get back to the matter of the pixel calculation and scaling. There are several matters to keep in mind: Google maps/osm, and similar maps use a different projection to what is used in the usual Wikipedia maps. This is the source of much grinding of teeth when pieces from one do not match to the other.

Google maps /osm have Web_Mercator projection which has

x = const*lon
y = const*( log( tan( 45deg + lat/2 ) ) )

(assuming lat is in degrees and tan works on degrees not radians) This has a continuously-varying stretch in the vertical direction to make things look square.

Wikipedia has Equirectangular_projection with a stretch of 1.1512 vertically for the Syria maps, i.e.

x = const*(lon-lon0)
y = const*stretch*(lat-lat0)

with some constant multiplier "const" and offsets lo0 and la0 that should be determined from the actual file used. You can generally find the longitude/latitude dimensions and stretch factor for the Syria map in the comments of File:Syria_location_map3.svg. By scaling this to the pixel size of the svg file (921.83 px wide and 761.92 px high), you obtain that:


It will be different for the Iraq map. (Well, I expect the const and stretch to be the same or almost the same, but offsets will differ significantly).

The vertical stretch of 15% in the file is supposed to make it have the right aspect ratio overall, although it's actually a bit too small. That's not the whole story with the stretch, though...

If you put the latitude values for Syria in the north and south into the web Mercator formula you get a local stretching factor of 1.186 at 32.5 degrees latitude (south of Syria) and 1.252 at 37 degrees (north of Syria), respectively. That's the stretching that the screenshots from osm etc. will have. So to make them fit on the Wikipedia map which always has a stretch of 1.15, we have to compensate appropriately.

So we pick a latitude in the middle of our screenshot, and calculate the required vertical multiplier like so:

mult = 1.15*cos(lat)

For Syria, these always end up being a shrinkage, actually, because the 15% stretch used in the Wikipedia map is slightly too small. For example, Aleppo is at a latitude of about 36 degrees, giving mult = 0.9313. This is the factor by which we have to shrink screenshots that are centered at the latitude of Aleppo, in point 5. of my procedure above.

Finally, regarding the location markers in point 3. of the procedure, the formula I use to convert longitude,latitude to pixel positions x,y of the marker in Inkscape is:

x = const*(lon-lon0)-w/2
y = const*stretch*(lat-lat0)-h/2

Here w and h are the pixel width and height of the marker I use (usually 1.0 pixels). I take half of the size away because the coordinates of the object in Inkscape are usually given for the left bottom corner.

Okay, so that's most of it I think. If something's not clear in the above, please ask away. I may have forgotten some minor but tricky elements, it's been a couple of months since I did this.

Deuar (talk) 13:02, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Wow, thank you very much for this precise explanation, I really appreciate it! Currently, I'm on great holidays in Bulgaria and I have only a little access to the internet, so it need to get back home before I read this and start with editing the map overlay, which will be in a little more than a week. --Ermanarich (talk) 08:38, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
Thanks:) Good luck, and I hope you have a great holiday in the meantime Deuar (talk) 09:02, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

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I'm genuinely curious. Back when you renamed Moroccan Western Sahara Wall to Berm (Western Sahara), were you new? All these years later do you understand why it was such a poor choice? -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 17:52, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi Ashely. Thanks for nudging me out of my wiki-stupor. Yes, I was definately new then. In honesty I have not gone back to that topic (which I encountered passing through) and have not remembered that the name continued to be such a hot topic afterwards. The later table by gidonb on 24 June 2008 is pretty convincing from a recognizability point of view, which is probably the most relevant here. I concur that "berm" is a poor choice, for starters because what percentage of people actually know what the word means? That notwithstanding ... from a "wall" I would expect a rigid and solid construction not a sand mound. This is just my STEM viewpoint. For comparison, the wall in Palestine is much more clearly a wall in places. Speaking of which, it's interesting that the article there has the word "barrier" not "wall". Anyhow, I think the people that have worked on the Western Sahara article in the subsequent 10 years are much more knowledgable than me on what is appropriate. Deuar (talk) 14:55, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message[edit]

Scale of justice 2.svg Hello, Deuar. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

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