User talk:Discospinster/Archive2

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DISCUSSION symbolic anthropology article

July 8/9, 2006 There is an article for symbolic anthropology. But for some reason the link doesn't work. I don't know...

... OK so I posted a question about how to fix this linking problem, I think it is item 119 at the bottom of the page:

If you don't know how to fix the link problem, please don't take out VALID article links, even if they ARE red. Someone else may be able to figure out how to fix them. Thanks.

Also, please do a SEARCH for these links BEFORE you delete them. You will see that articles DO exist for these topics.

Just deleting nonfunctioning links does not help. There ARE articles on these topics! The help information tells us to go ahead and include links even if we don't know how to make them work, because someone else will know how. I am following the proper procedure by keeping in the red links.

--- I was just looking at the history for Symbology. What were you and Irishguy doing? Ganging up on me?

I started making changes at 2:48, and at 2:57 Irishguy was undoing my changes. NOT CORRECTING MY ERRORS. And then you come along, and -BANG- TWICE change what I was doing.

You should look at the history AND the discussion sections before you make changes. You would have seen I was working on it right then, AND my comments. And then more people got involved. Look at the history. You all were swooping in for the kill.

Why? Because I'm knew to this and you are bullies? That was nasty.

Drumaville Consortium

Do you know how we can get this page semi-protected? -Seidenstud 14:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Autism therapies

This have enouf sources? Autism rights movement

Yes, so now you just have to clean up the writing (format, grammar) and keep it in the tone of an encyclopedic entry. ... discospinster talk 14:50, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Editing facts that you don't like is rather petty. If you ever find yourself in the United Kingdom, then you will very rapidly realise that what I wrote is, indeed factual rather than opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

I assume that you're talking about my revert of your edits in Store manager. I neither "like" nor "dislike" the statements you added. I am more concerned about their encyclopedic value, which — considering statements such as "most retail managers are drawn from the lower classes, who quite literally connive their way into their position" and "graduates whose academic ability and general character make them all but unemployable in any other business sector" — is rather low. Please see WP:NPOV. ... discospinster talk 19:57, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Would just like to take the time to thank you in helping this vandalism out for the ART LORIA "Doo Wop" Performer page. It is greatly appriciated and allows me to continue my research. Since I am not that computer inclined, I just try to get information from the main article pages - all this other stuff is a killer to me. I hope I took all the right steps to get Mr. Loria's main article page back on post - here is a little history of my efforts. So sorry for the lack of computer skills, but very thankful for your help in this matter - Please maybe someone can look into this and resolve it quickly. Thanks again. DOOWOPOLDIES1 - and sorry to clutter up your page!! THESE WERE THE REPLYS I RECENTLY RECEIVED FROM PREVIOUS MODERATORS - PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK INTO THIS AND RECONSIDER. THANK YOU!! As a expert in the history in Americana music, as per my research on ART LORIA, "Doo Wop Performer / Singer" his information was very valuable to my current book project due to his associations with various performing groups from the late 1950's & 1960's. His discography of recorded music can be found on the Broadcast Music Inc page, DJ Productions Page, Page where there is a pictorial history of his carreer, page, Jive Five Soulfull Kind of Music Page, Doo Wop Society of California page, etc....but there are just tidbits. Your page had all his early history that I was really Focused on. Due to this vandalism that I truly understand, I would ask you reconsider putting his musical contributions page back on line for it is of historical significance. Thank you. DOOWOPOLDIES1

PAST COMPLAINTS / REPLYS Art Loria ARTICLE - reply I understand your frustration at the actions of that you feel compromise the integrity of Wikipedia pages. Unfortunately, I am not a site administrator so my powers are just as limited as yours. The best I can do is place a warning on his/her talk page, which could attract the attention of an admin. (As for BeatleWill, there isn't such a username. The user who calls him/herself BeatleWill is actually the IP address above.)

Since you're dealing with an IP address (which is not static), I would suggest that you and "BeatleWill" work something out on the Art Loria talk page. You can also have a look at Wikipedia's Dispute Resolution policy; it provides other avenues you can pursue. (DID NOT WORK - HE DOSEN'T EXIST & JUST ADDS NASTY AND UNTHRUTHS TO RESEARCH)

I hope this is helpful. ... discospinster talk 17:47, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey there I am an administrator, so I'll look into the problem today. Unfortunately, as has been indicated, the user with whom you're having trouble is contributing via an anonymous IP; the worst that can be done is for his IP to be blocked - and it's not impossible that he'd simply take another IP and come right back and keep causing trouble.

I hope that your problems will be easy to resolve. DS 12:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

**RE: ART LORIA / DOO WOP PERFORMER BLOCKAGE SITUATION** Thank you for your reply and any help you can offer. Yes, it is frustration trying to do my research and all this valdalism comes out of the sky. Any help in clearing up this matter, or pointing it out to the right people would be greatly appriciated. Thanks again. DOOWOPOLDIES1


How did you find the "nonsense" that I typed on "The Haverford School", disco? 20:43, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean "how did I locate it" or "what did I think of it"? ... discospinster talk 20:45, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

How did you find it? I have a good idea of what you thought about it.

I found it by patrolling recent changes by anonymous editors. An edit you made in another article led me to your history, thence to The Haverford School. ... discospinster talk 20:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Another Question: how do I become an elite member like you, with a name rather than an IP address?

I'm not really an "elite" member, but if you want a name to show you need to register. At the Main Page, click on the top right corner where it says "Sign in / create account". Then follow the instructions from there. ... discospinster talk 17:01, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I see you have already done that. You can sign your posts to talk pages by typing ~~~~. ... discospinster talk 17:04, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Another q

Hey sorry to bother u, but you're my model wikipedian haha.

I was wondering, how do you make your signature colored like yours? (post on my user talk page) ...look at mine: --<font color="blue" size="4">kilaz_e_mastafu</font> 04:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you so much for your note about my duplicate entry on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rob Mayth. I have returned to the page and <s> my entry with apologies. Again, my thanks to you. -- Alias Flood 17:57, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Sam Solomon

When I think about it it is an obvious hoax - check the birthdate against his supposed performances.

The Prod has been removed so I am putting the Speedy back. BlueValour 00:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


contrariwise is a perfectly legitimate English word. I don't know what you are talking about with "this really bites". Your gay name 'Discospinster' really bites. It is obvious through your name that you can not remain neutral with regard to tihs article.

And hippies were in fact "treasonous, unpatriotic traitors". Talk to any veteran (like myself). They gave comfort and aid to the enemy Commie bastards that Marines, such as yours truly, were giving our lives to kill. Semper fi.

I think you are confused. Founders is the one who left the comment on your talk page. Anyway, "contrariwise" sounds like something Alice in Wonderland would say. ... discospinster talk 12:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Spam links

Hi! I saw you have previously reverted spam links on bus advertising and wrap advertising. I don't want this contributor to think I am alone in reverting these ongoing changes and commenting on that user's talk tape. Would you mind taking a look, please? Thanks! Jokestress 15:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


The guidelines state:

"The company or corporation has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the company itself."

It's pretty plain English to me. So when multiple articles have been cited, why do you arbitrarily discount them?

Either follow-up the guidelines or don't quote them to people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Azure123 (talkcontribs)

I think what Jokestress suggested on your talk page is a very good idea. ... discospinster talk 19:37, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

No problem. I think they're the same as User:Sweetpotatopie, too... ugh. best, bikeable (talk) 23:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Liberation music

Liberation music are owners and have nothing to with Warner Music Australia. I have already ask Liberation Music are you part with Warner Music Australia, Liberation reply was "no"

All CD's by Liberation Music are by Liberation not Warner ok.

Please updating if you didn't make any inquiry, I did. Just leave it.

Liberation with Sony Music Australia in 2000, Warner Music Austrealia, Universal Music Group, Warner Music Australia in June 2002. Liberation left them in August 2002.

Liberation state on CD very clearly Manufactured and Distruted by Liberation Music Australia, that means they the owners of company. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

I reverted it because you were referring to yourself in the text of the article ("I made an inquiry..."). Encyclopedia articles are to be written in the third person, and the assertions must be verifiable and be sourced when necessary. ... discospinster talk 13:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Articles for Deletion

Please learn to follow the guidelines when trying to bulldoze articles. You put one tag on it ('Unencylopediac') which was removed due to it being incorrect. Now you've done another (AfD). Kindly refrain from your boorish behaviour. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Everything you need to know about the deletion process can be found here: WP:GD. Also, please sign your comments in talk pages by typing four tildes, like this: ~~~~. ... discospinster talk 01:22, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I know full well how the system works. Perhaps you should read it as you did not follow the guidelines stated in the article. Pontifexmaximus 01:35, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Would you kindly point out where I diverged from the guidelines? ... discospinster talk 01:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
You still haven't listed the article correctly. It even looks like you're trying to be subversive for the sake of it. Furthermore, there are rules against using these sorts of tags to win 'WikiWars' (which you're clearly doing). Kindly stop trolling and leave the article alone. Thanks. Pontifexmaximus 01:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I haven't listed the article correctly? What have I missed? ... discospinster talk 01:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Buddhist monasticism

thanks for fixing references in the monasticism section!-- 15:36, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

No problem :-) ... discospinster talk 15:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

neil rogers

Mr. Rogers is gay and he is out of the closet. It is a well known fact that can be researched. His biography states it. Please do not impose your obvious homophobia on me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Mr. Rogers is a radio personality, not a "homosexual radio personality". His sexuality can be brought up later in the article. ... discospinster talk 20:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


I made some edits on the Grenoble page, that I see you chose to revert, upon what basis?

Is it not valid to mention pollution and presence of nuclear reactions in the town. These are easily verifiable facts.

The history of the school is well known in the scientific community but not one chosen to be shared by the French authorities.

There has even been an acclaimed expose, nationally, that is unlikely to be known by English readers. Is it your intention to suppress that knowledge?

Whose interests are you representing? Are you paid by any French entities/unions/pressure groups?

I did not realize that Wiki had Soviet style censorship. Perhaps this entry, too, will disappear.

Do you airbrush photos and rewrite textbooks too :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Wikipedia is not the place to make political points. Your edits were more suited to a newspaper editorial or blog than an encylopedia. Statements like "The Italian mafia's influence can be seen in the absurdly large number of Pizza restaurants along the waterfront." don't belong here, even as a joke. ... discospinster talk 17:58, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Question about Wikipedia

Do you by any chance know how much space (in terabytes) Wikipedia approximately takes up? --GoOdCoNtEnT 20:18, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Your Mondo Condo revert

A few of us are confused on how to present content that we ourselves had a hand in writing off-site. And would we then be allowed to update or 'paraphrase' what was previously written?

For example wm pasz writes a lot of material for both [1] and it's former MFD site (she was quite upset that her work was 'deleted'). Some of the info needs to be edited down, updated and formatted for wikipedia from it's original version.

Let us know how to properly credit it and then we will proceed. Thanks! -- Presley1000 16:31, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Why were my edits to the Windows Live OneCare Article removed?

What is the rationale for removing my edits to the Windows Live OneCare article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Hello. I removed the edit because it contained a direct link to an product, which could be construed as spam. Please see WP:SPAM and WP:EL for more guidance on which types of links to avoid. ... discospinster talk 18:35, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Then why in the world did you remove other edits I made which mentioned the fact that Windows Live One Care was No 2 in retail sales along with references? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

That was in fact an error. My apologies. ... discospinster talk 19:49, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Greetings, you pretentious douchebag!

How dare you presume to remove the sacred name of Wayman Tisdale from the annals of smooth jazz? He is certainly a popular artist - if Your Highness would deign to do so, a quick glance at his newest album on reveals its ranking of #712 in recent sales, which is incredibly high. I suggest you cease and desist making deleterious reversions, and instead sit inside your 10x10 igloo in that frozen wasteland you call a nation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Simonetta Stefanelli

Simonetta Stefaneli "died of cancer in Rome, Italy on July 23, 2006." (as per [2]). Abaloney 19:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Oops, never mind, I see her name was restored. Sorry to bother you. Abaloney 19:58, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism Revert

You're welcome.--1568 01:19, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Link in Aus team


Just to say I was unsure but thought I would fix it so at least people could see what it was. Same IP is placing the link in a number of similar pages I've noticed since - cheers --Nigel (Talk) 13:33, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Nicest thing anyone has said to me for a while <g> - worth dealing with the other links (if you haven't) cheers --Nigel (Talk) 13:37, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


hey disco spinster DISCO IS DEAD AND IS NEVER COMING BACK. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slmbjdzdm (talkcontribs)

UWO and Guelph

Hey I live in Southwestern Ontario and have ties to both of those schools. Where are you from and what did you study? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

I'm from Hamilton, and I studied philosophy (Guelph) and library science (Western). ... discospinster talk 18:20, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I live in Hess Village. I drink every night. You should come visit me. Go Go Gwelf Griffins.


Just thought I'd like to let you know that there's a new barnstar on your userpage. Though, you're so busy reverting vandalism, I dunno when you'll get to see it! --Targetter (Lock On) 02:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Kimberly Kupps


I saw that you tagged Kimberly Kupps for speedy deletion, saying that it didn't assert the importance of the subject. However, in my opinion, it does indeed claim that she is notable by saying that she "came to prominence." You may wish to prod it or take it to AFD if you think she is non-notable but meets the CSD. On the other hand, if you still think she meets the CSD, let me know, and I'll be happy to discuss it.

Cheers, -- Where 01:19, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

No problem. -- Where 15:51, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

You might want to check this

In regards to our recent edit conflict - might want to get the page protected for a while?

--Charlesknight 18:35, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

They are a bit dim - they post the vandalism in that link (which they put in one of their edits) I gave you, sort of makes it easy to spot. --Charlesknight 18:44, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

LifeSphere & Maple Knoll Village

LifeSphere has granted Wikipedia to use any content from these pages and have indicated the appropriate usage (copyright) at the bottom the pages in question. If you have any questions or concerns, please email webmaster at lifesphere dot org. Bgrubbs 13:00, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

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Just an FYI, you are using the {{wikify-date}} template incorrectly. Do not put in the exact date you marked the page for wikification, just the month and year, for example {{wikify-date|August 2006}}. This is because these pages are placed into categories by month. When you put use the full date, they get put into non-existent categories and nobody will find them. Please go back through your contributions and fix any other instances you have done. I did it for you on Azarias Pallais, though. Regards, howcheng {chat} 18:35, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Please stop making revisions to my corporate ethics text.

I AM the copyright owner of the text.

Thnak you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

You are William Michael Cunningham, Social Investing Adviser for William Michael Cunningham and Creative Investment Research, Inc.? ... discospinster talk 21:17, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Copyright Question

Your comment/action on my "Gender imbalance" entry states "(blanking page per procedure)". I have sent in the necessary information, which explains my post entry on my blog for the same article. This is not a copyright violation as I am the author of the article and I have sent the necessary emails to clarify this situation. Any other suggestions to reinstate the entry is appreciated.

Thank you

Munindra 00:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


The point that got me was the second section, something to the effect of "Studystorm has issued... " about the plagerism which means that it was written and therefore owned by the organization and is not available freely.

The point you made about being bound to be deleted is WP:SNOW.

I usually default to a speedy tag if it can seem to fit. I have found most admins to be quite liberal in the interpretation of the speedy tags. If they don't agree I have all the edits on my watch list and will go an prod.

Finally, welcome to the world of deletionists; that closet is way to small!--Gay Cdn (talk) (email) (Contr.) 22:11, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

And just that fast it's gone!--Gay Cdn (talk) (email) (Contr.) 22:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

You guys are harsh! why did you delete the explanation on what studystorm is. You dont justify your actions, why cant I give an explanation of what it is. nothing was plagarised and all of it was original. It was a useful contribution.

Can someone actually write a "proper" description that fits within wikipedia guidlines because, I dont want to waste my time on a really good description only for it to be deleted by some mindless idiot. I am not a global corporation or a millionaire im just astudent trying to help other students with a knowledge sharing site.

Michael Scott Smith

Thanks for bringing it to my attention. The article has been deleted as a collection of discriminate information. Please do not hesitate to refer any further issues requiring admin assistance to my talk page. theProject 02:51, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

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The Greatest Show

The Greatest Show, located at is up for deletion because Wiki says it doesn't exsist. Someone didn't read the external links that leads to the official site, and used to lead to the myspace created to help promote the business. I've visited both sites, happen to know for a fact that it exsists, mainly because I work for it, and the site has dont everything you ask of them. You told them to delete stuff and move things around and I noticed that they did, and you said they can remove the tag, so they did because they wanted to make it nicer, and they even added their own comments about where you can find information and proving it's not an advertisment, it is what all other Wikipedia sites do, talk about the history of someone/thing, and give descriptions of everything they feel it's important. Independent people don't know about it, because we are very little known. Maybe 20 or 30 people have heard of us, and less have seen us in action, so don't always go relying on the Independant people, because they dont know everything —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tjbonamico (talkcontribs)

Seamless Sky: Date: September 10

I cited the reference from Amazon's site and I know i copied it from there but if it is necessary i will change the words. please let me know if i need to change it. thanks -rahul

Saga of Souls AFD

Hi, did you forget to add Saga of Souls to the deletion log when you nominiated it for deletion? It looks like the debate should have been closed by now. Wmahan. 14:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not certain, but the safe thing would probably be to put it in today's log. That way no one could say that the process was unfair or that the discussion did not get enough exposure. Wmahan. 15:08, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

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Prettying up Lou Pearlman

I noticed you reverted five unexplained blankings by user: in a row last couple of weeks. Spamming the Talent Rock link, blanking pages, this seems to be a never ending story. Isn't it about time for permanently blocking this IP? 17:05, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I am not an administrator myself, so I can't go ahead and block the user. I will look into the next course of action. ... discospinster talk 18:54, 14 September 2006 (UTC)


My name is Vic Mangino, and I am the Chief Operating Officer for AVETeC, Inc. AVETeC is an acronym I came up with that stands for the Advanced Virtual Engine Test Cell. We are in the process of copyrighting our name and logo, however, our attorney has assured us that there is no conflict between the foreign companies called Avetec and ours due to the fact that their line of business differs significantly from our own. There used to be a company in Ohio who had a business selling university themed sweatshirts, and they owned the website, however, they have since changed their name or gone out of business and I am in the process of trying to buy the domain.

I am a new user to Wikipedia, and am trying to determine why the listing I submitted has been blocked and what I can do to get it unblocked. I am simply trying to get our name out on the web more for those that are searching for us or are interested in our projects. As a nonprofit, we don't have alot of money set aside for marketing purposes.

I don't know if this is the forum for resolving whatever problem exists, but you may also contact me at if need be.

Warmest regards,

Vic Mangino, COO AVETeC

Dear Mr. Mangino: Thank you for letting me know your concerns. The reason that the AVETeC article was deleted is not that the name infringed on the trademarks of any other company, it's that the text of the article itself was a direct copy of text that already existed on your web page. This is considered a copyright violation by this criterion (see #8). If you would like the Wikipedia article to have the same text as the web page, you must first be the copyright holder of the text, then you must inform Wikipedia that you are giving permission of fair use. You would let Wikipedia Public Relations know, by following the instructions here. Then it will be made clear in the Wikipedia article's talk page that you are the copyright holder of the text. If you aren't the copyright holder, you can get permission from the copyright holder to licence the work. Again, if permission is granted, this fact must be made known to Wikipedia PR as above.
Alternately, you could re-write the article so that it's not infringing on any copyright, and making sure that you assert the notability of AVETeC.
I hope this clears up the issue. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask on my talk page. ... discospinster talk 16:01, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


Hey, just a tip, you can tag copyvios that were created in the last 48 hours with {{db-copyvio}} and get it dealt with quicker. Thanks! --Mr. Lefty Talk to me! 19:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I do seem to remember something like that, but CSD A8 doesn't say anything like that. --Mr. Lefty Talk to me! 19:44, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Lou Pearlman's Page

As I stated on the last IP I was using...

"Blocking my IP is not going to stop me from removing any false information that is being posted about Lou Pearlman. In this day and age I can walk down the block and connect to 20+ different networks. Lou Pearlman was brought to court under false allegations. This is why the case was dismissed before it started. Now if this was a case that was true and Lou went to court and a jury ruled him innocent or guilty than you would have historical information that could be added to his bio. 15:39, 18 September 2006 (UTC)"

Thank you so much for your hard work..

I noticed that you reverted the vandalisms on Eul-Yong Ta. Apparently, the Koreans became excited that their internet phenomenon was listed here. See here Thank you so much. mirageinred 19:43, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Newcastle Fan Video Podcast Page Deletion

Was it you who put this page up for deletion (, your name is beside it, it says that the Podcast isnt a real Podcast, thats not true, if you go to my website or go to iTunes and search for it you will find it.

Recommendation letter article

Hello Discospinster,

Thanks for your response to my posting. I appreciate you removing the "delete" notice.

Please forgive me if I'm responding incorrectly here but I'm a brand new "poster" to Wikipedia; so I'm not sure whether I should be "Talking" to you through this channel or if I should be using the "Discussion" page at the article site.

Please see my remarks/comments below re: your criticisms of my "recommendation letter" posting:

>The similarity of the text to that of your existing articles is a concern. Even though it's been modified, and you are also the copyright holder, it does give off an "advertising" sort of vibe that conflicts with the purpose of Wikipedia.

I'm not sure how/why this concerns you? What is wrong with me revising/adapting an article that I wrote three years ago on the subject at hand? In fact, I took great pains to carefully revise that article to comply with Wikipedia guidelines for style, format and neutrality. I remind you that the article has been posted on my free content site for 3 to 4 years. FYI, that free content site gets about 2 million unique visitors per year from over 160 countries.

Could you please look at the text of the main article again (without considering the links) and see if you find that text on it's own to "give off an 'advertising' sort of vibe" as you put it?

Quite honestly, I can't see your "advertising" point at all when I read the main article (without the links considered). I have had two other individuals read that same text to see if they get any kind of an "advertising vibe" and they both concluded "no".

Can you give me an example of wording in the main article that hints of "advertising". Any suggestions to reword such would be appreciated? Thanks.

>The external links given are only those to your sites, and the book is yours as well. Even if you are "the foremost expert in the world" on the subject of reference and recommendation letters, it borders on self-promotion to limit the outside sources to your own works.

Four years ago, I discovered that many thousands of people were arriving at my Website looking for info on how to write "recommendation letters, letters of recommendation, reference letters, letters of reference". This was news to me at the time; so I conducted considerable research into what was "out there" in the public domain (both online and offline) on the subject of "how-to write recommendation letters...". I was shocked to discover that there was NOT ONE "style guide" on that subject. To this date, I am not aware of another style guide on the subject of writng recommendation/reference letters, aside from mine. In fact, that is exactly why I wrote the first version of my book in 2002 and then issued a Revised Edition in 2005.

I am aware of a couple of books that purport to be to be about how to write recommendation letters but when one looks at them closely they are either books of letter templates and/or targeting a specific group -- teachers for example. Thhey are not reference books as mine is. Please have a look at and see what comes up under the search phrase "recommendation letter".

If you know of another resource(s) that addresses the overall subject of "writing recommendation letters..." please let me know. I would be happy to post it below the article.

BTW, I was not trying to "limit" references to my own sources. As I stated, if I knew of other authorities I would have posted them.

HOWEVER, my understanding of how Wikipedia works is that if I posted the initial resource links that I know of (and trust), then other knowledgeable Wikipedians would start adding other relevant quality resources to the Reference List. Is this not how the "process" is supposed to work? As I understand it, I have given a starting point on this subject when there was a complete void before.

>I agree that articles about recommendation letters and reference letters do belong in Wikipedia, but I also think that they should be approached in a more neutral way. I will withdraw the proposals for deletion if the article can be changed to reflect this ideal. ...

In light of the above, how do you suggest I make my offering "more neutral"?

Would you like me to do more research into the subject and list other references that perhaps address the subject partially? Such as; books of templates for teachers or for employment situations only? I can do this if necessary; although I understood that any of these that exist would percolate up via the "Wikipedia process".

Would it be more palatable if I made the links to my free content resources on the subject more general in nature? For example, I could refer people to the home page of my free writin help site rather than to the specific "recommendation letter" content in particular? For example, I could simply post and let people go there and seek out the "recommendation/reference letter" info and resources on their own.

Do you think I should delete the links to the "recommendation letter samples"? Although I should add that these are real-life templates of actual recommendation letters. Quite relevant I believe.

Sorry Discospinster, I'm almost done here. But I wanted to make it clear to you that the lack of resources on the subject of "recommendation letters" and "reference letters" is more a matter of circumstance than anything else.

In essence, as I see it I was sharing my knowledge on the subject and pointing people to some FREE info resources on this subject as a starting point for the Wikipedia process.

In light of the above, could you please advise what I can do to make this posting more acceptable to you.

Thanks very much,

Shaun Fawcett, M.B.A.

Montreal, 1-800-600-6550 (toll-free)

Not Spam

I have a very useful Blog all about Skate Shoes and though it would be good for the articles, cheers!

Thanks Discospinster,

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my previous post and revise my article. Don't worry I'm just about to surrender.

Just a few more points of clarification:

It concerns me because I'm a Wikipedia editor, and I'm trying to apply the guidelines of Wikipedia to the articles that I come across.

Yes, I understand that. I just want to make sure "the baby doesn't go out with the bathwater" on this one.

I'm glad that your website gets so many visitors; that's a good thing in and of itself. But it doesn't really impact on the issue that we're discussing, which is whether the content of the article is appropriate, seeing as how it is an adaptation of an existing webpage also written by you. It doesn't matter whether the site's content is free, or how popular it is.

The sole point of me mentioning the popularity of my free content Website that covers recommendation/reference letters extensively is that my site is considerd to be an authority by many (That would include it's author, by association).

I would also like to draw your attention to the policy of no original research: Research that creates primary sources is not allowed. All articles in Wikipedia should be based on information collected from published primary and secondary sources. This is not "original research"; it is "source-based research", and it is fundamental to writing an encyclopedia. Articles which draw predominantly on primary sources are generally discouraged, in favor of articles based predominantly on secondary sources.

Sorry, maybe I don't fully understand the subtleties of primary vs secondary research. As I explained, four years ago I did extensive research, both online and offline, on what was "out there" on how to write ALL types of recommendation and reference letters. I believe that was my primary/initial research. Then, based on that primary research I wrote a comprehensive style guide in 2002 (with templates) on how to write ALL types of recommendation/reference letters. Thereafter, I drew material from that published book on the same subject and wrote a series of articles and Web pages. Wouldn't my 2002 reference book on the subject count as a secondary source? Wouldn't articles drawn from that book, and/or based on it's content count as being drawn from a secondary source (i.e. my book)? I guess I'm a bit confused on this one.

However, as I stated before, when I did the research on "how to write ALL TYPES of recommendation and reference letters" in 2001/2002 I DID NOT find a single comprehensive style guide that had been published on that subject. To this day, the only such book of which I am aware is mine.

BTW, one of the books that you added to the resource list on your revised page is Susan Whalley's 2001 book "How To Write Powerful Letters of Recommendation". I have that book right here in front of me. FYI, that book is strictly for teachers writing recommendation letters for high school/secondary students. It is 78 pages in length (including front and back matter) with 6 pages on "how to" write a recommendation letter. The rest of the book is made up of short sample letter texts. This is a great book for high school teachers. Although, as a library person, you may be aware that some authorities don't even regard a book with less than 100 pages as an actual book.

I have no problem adding that resouce; I just want you to be aware of what it actually is. (As I stated above, I did the primary research - 4/5 years ago).

On the other hand, my comprehensive book on ALL TYPES of recommendation/reference letters is 202 pages long, with more than 60 pages on how-to/style info and 67 real-life letter templates for all major situations: college admission, employment, commendation/recognition and performance evaluation.

I should have been more clear — it's not the wording of the text that concerned me, it was the fact that it was more or less already on your webpage.

Since my Webpage info is based on primary research that was done 4/5 years ago on the subject, and the free content site (i.e. is regarded as a worldwide authority on letter writing help (including recommendation/reference letters), and I researched/wrote all of the material - I don't fully understand why it is wrong for me to adapt some of that material in an abbreviated form for Wikipedia?

Fine, I don't want to belabour that one. But quite honestly, I don't really get the distinction.

A look at Google results for the term "recommendation letters" brought up quite a few pages, such as [1], [2], [3], all on the first page. Books about job searching will probably have that information as well.

Yes, these are the types of resources I would expect other "experts" to post via the "Wikipedia process".

Did you actually go to these Websites? The site is strictly employment-related recommendation/reference letters and the dozens of "ads" highlighted on that page are strictly for commercial purposes.

Are you aware that is aggressively marketing their letter writing software across the Internet. That one page of "tips" that you chose is just there to get the SEs to list them. They are NOT experts on recommendation letters at all!

I could have easily included a direct link to my eBook on this subject but I thought that would be too much like direct advertising. That's what is doing.

As I already stated, I was hoping that the "Wikipedia process" would result in the posting of some additional "quality" content links - in addition to mine of course.

Searching for the same terms on Amazon gave me many books to choose from. Of course, I haven't read them so I can't vouch for their quality, but they do exist.

I already covered Susan Whalley's book. No problem, let's post it. At the same time, if you look carefully at the books that turned up at there are fewer than 3 or 4 that are actually style guides on "how to write ALL TYPES of recommendation letters". You have to watch seaerch results; they are usually off-topic by the fourth or fifth result. My point being, that true quality resources on my subject are few and far between.

Basically, I'm just letting you know about the relevant policies and guidelines in Wikipedia, which other editors will have in mind when they view the articles. I've tried to capture the essential points of what you wrote, while at the same time differentiating it from the text on your other webpage: Recommendation letter/Temp. Please have a look.

Yes, I appreciate that. I have looked at your revisions and I can live with them EXCEPT FOR the Legal Issues section. I know that's an issue for "some" people vis employment recommendations only. It seems that the main people who get excited about this one are lawyers. If you have knowledge/expertise on that angle I urge you to include it. Otherwise, I would drop it and see if it comes up via the Wikipedia editing process.

BTW discospinster, I have no idea how to get back to the draft page you did so I can't really comment on it much more than I did above.

One thing I do remember is your comment that I didn't explain the difference between "recommendation letters" and "reference letters". Hmmmmm, I thought I had. The main two being that 1) Rec letters are very specific in nature and normally requested/required and are always specifically addressed to an individual. 2) Ref letters are more general in nature, often done on spec and usually addressed "To Whom It May Concern".

It is VERY imoportant to deal with the "confusion" issue because it is a big problem. It needs to be mentioned and explained, ideally with a link to the other type of letter. i.e. a link from rec letter page to ref letter page and one from ref letter page to rec letter page.

Bottom Line: Go ahead and post your revised version if you like. I would appreciate you taking my above comments/remarks into account. If not, we'll just be confusing the subject rather than shedding light on it.

Please let me know if you have any more questions/comments.

Shaun Fawcett, M.B.A.

Montreal, 1-800-600-6550

Disco, you recently accused me of vandalism regarding my contributions to Armenians. I have no intent to do anything other than add a robust contribution to articles I edit as that I live in an area with many Armenians, I think it is very helpfull to users that I added a picture of what a typical Armenian looks like. Please consider that my edits are based in fact and truth and for the purpose to enlighten users.

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Brazillian Goose

You removed the piece of information that I contributed to the Toucan page. I can assure you that the Toucan is a kind of South American duck and is infact known as a Brazillian Goose. I have studied the toucan and many other species of duck my entire adult life. I am a professor of Ornithology (that's bird studies to you) and am currently lecturing the subject at Reading University. I will return my contribution to the page and expect it not to be tampered with by people who do not know what they are talking about. Yours Faithfully,

Professor G McFly