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User talk:Djathinkimacowboy

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So I'm a bit gruff, and yeah, my pants are fancy, so what!!~©Djathinkimacowboy

If I am noted for anything here, I want it to be that I struggle to improve and I keep my word.Djathinkimacowboy

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And please pay actual attention to what this banner says!~©Djathinkimacowboy

User talk:Djathinkimacowboy/Archive 1


Have you remembered to sign your message

Miscellaneous 2012 posts

Have some tea.

Thank you for being gracious on DRN by closing the dispute. It takes awhile to learn the best way of doing things, and the only way we learn is by making mistakes - you recognized that, and (more importantly) you owned up to your mistake. That goes a lot further than you might think. We all make mistakes because, let's face it, Wikipedia has a pretty big learning curve. The whole reason I got into assisting at DRN is because I was involved in a dispute over something I deleted in an article (perhaps a little hastily). Nothing I said on DRN was intended to be pointed at you; I was simply stating a few general things to calm down the discussion a little - everyone's temper was getting a little heated. If you took that personally, I apologize. Sleddog116 (talk) 21:15, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

You're a doll. How did you know tea's my thing?! Cheers.—Djathinkimacowboy 21:20, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Call it a hunch. ;) I've met very few Wikipedians who wouldn't like a nice, hot cup of tea at some point (excepting myself, of course; I personally find tea rather revolting, but whatever floats your boat). Sleddog116 (talk) 21:39, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Oh, no! You have to get Twinings brand Irish Breakfast tea, then when it's ready you add cream and a dash of sugar. It is as good as coffee! If you noted the photo, it looks very much like that. The taste is spectacular. I myself, whilst I find a good cup of the finest black Chinese tea plain is the thing, cannot abide by these herbal concoctions. Iced tea is disgusting. But then there are others who love all those things.—Djathinkimacowboy 13:14, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Talkback and WikiLove

No hard feelings Hasteur (talk) 15:06, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Cheers. Back at you. And I love hummus on freshly warmed pita!—Djathinkimacowboy


Per this ANI discussion, I have blocked your account for one month. You've made serious claims, and provided no evidence at all, but of your own hostile and uncivil actions. Blocks are intended to defend Wikipedia, and its good faith users, from those who can't or won't edit in the collegial fashion that 99.9% of users can manage 100% of the time. The purpose of your previous blocks was to make sure to you, in no uncertain terms, that you've seriously crossed the line and must change. Unfortunately the first block wasn't effective in achieving that, nor the second. Frankly I rather doubt you're interested in changing, but I'm assuming just a shred of good faith, which is why I've not blocked you indefinitely. But if you can't manage yourself when the block expires, it's likely that the next block will be indefinite. -- Finlay McWalterTalk 14:04, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Understood. I thank you for transferring that message to my talk. Will you give me some time to clear my head rather than expecting further remarks at present?—Djathinkimacowboy 14:05, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Should you feel an unblock is appropriate, you can add the relevant unblock template, as indicated in the block message. That will be considered by other administrators - so that you don't feel the victim of my personal evildoing, it's better that further consideration of this topic not be done by me. -- Finlay McWalterTalk 14:12, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
I don't see a block message. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:21, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)This is me, I got signed out somehow. I don't see a block message.—Djathinkimacowboy 14:23, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

The unblock procedure is detailed at Wikipedia:Appealing a block. -- Finlay McWalterTalk 14:30, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Re: Edgardo Mortara

You posted the following on the Request for comment request board:

Sorry, I didn't know exactly how to do this. I think the article is excellent, well written and very balanced. I'd like to have an opinion about that. The article deserves recognition. Djathinkimacowboy 21:41,

19 November 2011 (UTC)

I would like to point you to the Peer review process. Coastside (talk) 16:18, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Coastside, now I have a window of opportunity I wanted to thank you for the information. At present and at the time, it was not possible for me to pursue the Mortara article further. Let us hope for the future. Again, thank you for referring me to peer review.—Djathinkimacowboy 15:11, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Regarding recent indefblock & unblock

A note

I'm sorry that this is happened but if you want an indef block, better not to go out in bad terms with people, threatening to be uncivil. Wikipedia can't hate you, and doesn't hate you. Being blunt, I think you interpret a lot of things to be attacks against you when they are not, which is a pity. I would hope that you could come back in future and we could talk more, maybe see about ways to communicate without so much drama. Are you sure you want an indef block? OohBunnies! Leave a message :) 16:14, 7 April 2012 (UTC) Note: I do thank you for the barnstars, it was very nice of you to give them to me.

Whoa. I was coming here to thank you for the barnstars and I see that you have been indeffed. I'm sorry it had to come to this (though I don't know what caused this block yet) and I hope you'll come back in a bit and ask to be unblocked. Take care, Dja. Salvio Let's talk about it! 16:19, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm also sorry that things have degenerated like this today. Hopefully you will return to editing at some point. I feel that you can make a positive contribution here, you just need to learn the discipline of not posting the first thing that comes into your head on Talk pages (or ANI)! Some people are less forgiving than others, and when you are dealing with people you have never met in person there is lots of room for misunderstandings and things getting taken personally when that is not the intention at all. Rangoon11 (talk) 16:28, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
To all above, I had no chance to thank you for your posts and input. All of you are correct and had a lot of very sharp insight to be able to post your comments as you did. In the process of appealing the block, I wanted to take the opportunity to thank each of you, Salvio, Rangoon, Bunnies, you have each been very good and patient with me over this long haul. Now, I only ask you to keep your fingers crossed for me! Your advice will be heeded.—Djathinkimacowboy 15:09, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Talk page access

I've restored talk page access per your request to be allowed to appeal the block. If your appeal is denied, is insufficient, or abusive then talk page access may be revoked again. Please use the {{unblock}} template and another admin will review your request.--v/r - TP 12:24, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

If you keep going round the site canvassing admins to unblock you, and making other edits [1],[2] you'll soon find your IP indef blocked as well. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:39, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

With thanks to TParis. My apologies. It was indeed a bit lonely for me, and I succumbed, performed two edits, as indicated. Seems that may be enough for me to simply give any appeal up at this point. Only, please pardon me, I have not been 'going round the site canvassing admins to unblock' me. It is regrettable that I have made that impression, but it is a false impression. I did accidentally apply to one other admin about the unblock process some time ago - but please, don't post an accusation here without at least there being actual truth to it. I was not canvassing anybody, and certainly not "administrators" in the plural. The message has been received in any case. My request will no doubt be denied.—Djathinkimacowboy 01:21, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Ya won't know that for sure until you actually make the request. You might offer to be mentored as a condition to unblock. It might help. I, of course, can't review it because I was the blocking admin, but just make your case and see. Admit to the IP edits and offer apologies and solutions.--v/r - TP 02:46, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, TParis. The appeal is done and I have you to thank for the guidance in this. Please know it is as genuine and unedited as possible. It is my sincere hope you'll see it, just for the sake of reading what I wrote. It would mean a lot to me.—Djathinkimacowboy 15:01, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, Kudpung, for placing that template-notice below for me. It did in fact make it easier, and I did not want you to think I would let this pass without gratitude or a thank-you. As you see, it helped and my appeal is posted.—Djathinkimacowboy 15:02, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for for various reasons, see block log and Now that yoiu are able to edit your talk page again, I'm posting this template to make it easier for you to appeal, and because it appears you never got one.. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding below this notice the text {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:41, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Djathinkimacowboy (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribs deleted contribscreation log change block settingsunblockfilter log)

Request reason:

My indefblock was rightly placed due to what is known here as "battleground" attitude, personal insults, and other aggressive behaviors. With the passage of time, I have seen clearly what each instance involved, and how it should have been avoided - had I been reasonable and nonaggressive. Editing WP can at times become heated, but I am known for 'overheating'. Many users have rightly said I became insulting and I was certainly guilty of a degree of edit warring. That, combined with impatience, put me where I am presently. I ask that my block be lifted. One of my many faults was to view editing and talk page comments as personal - requiring a personal attack from me in return. Also, I have seen the examples of my posting which takes on an unnecessarily aggressive tone, this being a source of actual pain for other editors. I can say with honesty of expression that I am deeply sorry for all of my negative activity. There was a time when I felt hounded, which was wrong of me, but then, as such, I would 'return the attack' when there had been no attack. It was always the worst reaction possible from me, because as I have said, I could be a hotheaded editor. My negative posts/attacks/battling felt necessary, and that in itself is an unfortunate and terrible attitude. My feeling is, since having clearly looked at the activity for which I was disciplined, I had absolutely no right to respond in the manner I did. Some of my posts are a deep embarrassment, seeing how out of control I had become. In my 'lonely' feeling, I did edit WP exactly twice under only my dynamic IP address. It was purely out of a desire to edit. I meant no harm by that, and my salient point is I firmly resolve to bring no harm because I mean no harm. Hence I request my block be lifted, with assurances that may be quoted back to me at any time, that I will not indulge in such outlandish behavior again - I know that behavior hurts others. It is my firm promise not to come to edit at WP to hurt others, disturb editing or other unworthy contributions. I will understand if I am denied. Admin TParis has made an excellent suggestion I would welcome, however, if unblocked: I would like to be mentored and improve as an editor here by 100%. A mentor would be welcome in so many ways, and I never asked for such a thing before. I should have. —Djathinkimacowboy 14:54, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Accept reason:

I fully agree with the others who have posted here that you should be given another chance, so I am unblocking you subject to Kudpung's conditions that you have agreed to. As for Kudpung asking you to accept the 6 month limit on the 1RR, the way I read your messages, you had in effect agreed to accept whatever time limit he imposed, so I am unblocking on the basis that you have accepted the 6 months. I wish you luck with your future editing, and I hope you will do better this time. Please feel welcome to contact me for help or advice. JamesBWatson (talk) 13:18, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

  • As you have now been blocked for around 6 months and had time to reflect, I am inclined to view your appeal in a positive light. However, I must await the opinions of the blocking admins and/or other uninvolved admins before taking any action. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:32, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
    • I've got no reservations that wouldn't permit invocation of the WP:Standard offer.--v/r - TP 03:03, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
  • For what it's worth, this passing and uninvolved admin looked things over here and would have no problem with an unblock. WP:Standard offer, per TParis, seems sensible (even if it is a week early!). Yunshui  09:12, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Since I previously blocked Dja, Kudpung pointed me to this unblock request. I'm just stopping by to say I have no real opinion for or against an unblock, I'll defer to everyone's judgement. --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:45, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
  • I think, given the input from the blocking admins as well as uninvolved reviewers here, you are ok to unblock the account Kudpung.--Jezebel'sPonyobons mots 21:17, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Last chance

Given the favourable comments from other admins here, and as an uninvolved (non blocking) admin, and taking into consideration you block log, I am prepared to unblock you if you agree unconditionally to these conditions:

  1. Edit warring: You are limited to 1r only.
  2. You will not make any inappropriate warnings to other users.
  3. You will not make or exercise any 'battleground approach, baseless accusations of sockpuppetry, personal attacks, incivility, or harassment.
  4. Any single breach of the above may result in an indefinite block and a permanent site ban.

Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:05, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Agreed.Djathinkimacowboy 03:35, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
There is a query I wish to make, but it really does not mean a great deal: for how long am I under the limitation to 1R?*Djathinkimacowboy 03:37, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
I don't think I need to confer with my colleagues on that so I'm setting it at 6 months. If you'll agree to that I will unblock you in the next few minutes. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:00, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
No problems, it is more than fair. Agreed. Forgive my delay.——Djathinkimacowboy 17:55, 4 October 2012 (UTC)


May I enquire here about the possibility of being mentored, as well suggested by TParis? I should like that but do not know how to proceed, or whom to ask. Thanks. And may I say with feeling that I'm grateful for a new chance to edit constructively again.——Djathinkimacowboy 18:12, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

  • It depends what sort of mentoring you want. I said when I unblocked you that you are welcome to contact me for help or advice, and also if you want me to I can from time to time have a look at your editing and let you know if I see anything I think I can offer you advice or help on. You may find that enough, or you may want a more organised kind of mentorship programme. I did what I have just offered once before with an editor who had been indefinitely blocked and then unblocked in circumstances which were in some ways similar to yours. I think he was happy with what I did for him, but if you like I can ask him to tell you what he thought. (If either or both of you prefer, it can be done via email for confidentiality.) Let me know on my talk page if you want me to do that.
  • If you want a more organised kind of mentorship, I am not the person to do it. Different mentors have very different ideas how to go about the job, and some of them go to the trouble of devising a sort of course of lessons and tutoring their protégé through them, but I am not willing to do that. If you want more than what I have offered, you may like to try looking at Wikipedia:Adopt-a-user and Wikipedia:Adopt-a-user/Adoptee's Area. Those pages are aimed more at new users than at editors who have been around a while but have had problems, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you won't find what you need there. As you can read on that page, you can add {{subst:dated adoptme}} to your user page, and hope it will attract someone to offer to be your mentor. If you do that, then I suggest adding a couple of sentences or so explaining why you want a mentor. I should mention also Wikipedia:Mentorship. I don't see anything there that I see as likely to be particularly helpful to you, but you may find I am wrong. JamesBWatson (talk) 19:29, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
James, if you peruse above a little bit, you'll see TParis made this suggestion and I have been itching to ask him for much more detail about what he thinks would work best. However, here's my take. I'm not certain I know exactly the mentorship I would require. Uppermost in my mind is when I hesitate over an edit or an argument on a talk page, wondering how I might approach the thing.
Other times, I edit quite well and do all according to WP standards, only to be forcefully kicked by an annoyed editor I have never even encountered before. Sometimes I just need to know where to find things, such as templates.
What do you think? Your offer - which you say was made earlier, I am not certain I know what you mean - it sounds very good. In the past, have gone to several editors and admins I work with to ask queries or get advice.
The main problem I seem to get a lot of times is a fear of involvement or a fear of compromise. All I want is a guide to help me find answers and an editing friend who might just help check my behavior before I get emotional. Tell me what you think.——Djathinkimacowboy 19:51, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Oh James ... I see the offer, it was below my appeal language, I had not noted that before since I did not think anything could be entered there. I wanted to thank you because I knew all along it was you who had unblocked me. Indeed I did immediately agree to Kudpung in re 1R rule, but it was about 17 hours after K. had posted. Anyway, I see it now and if you do not mind, I will certainly keep you at the top of the 'get-help' list I hope to keep. An admin who is an excellent man and has helped me in heaps in Salvio Giuliano, but I do not think Sal would be willing to slip in my muck anymore if I may speak in his behalf a little....——Djathinkimacowboy 19:55, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
I think someone who could help you with finding the right approach to take in disputes would be helpful. I'm willing to help, but I'm in your block log quite a bit so I understand if you decide to go elsewhere. I think overall your editing is fine, you just tend to feel trapped in disputes. James could be very helpful if he was open to giving advice when you need it and you going to him when you feel something might be getting out of control.--v/r - TP 20:04, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Thoughts about a couple of points you mentioned:
  1. "Other times, I edit quite well and do all according to WP standards, only to be forcefully kicked by an annoyed editor I have never even encountered before." Yes. I get that too. So does pretty well anyone who edits here much. I am not always the best person in the world at keeping polite when other people seem to me to be being unfair to me, but I do avoid getting really annoyed or upset, by reminding myself "Hey, it's only Wikipedia. It's not really that important." A site which lets anyone edit is bound to get a share of people who are totally unreasonable, simply because there are such people in the world. If the person you think has "forcefully kicked" you is really being unreasonable, best is to think "well, there's a stupid person, but it's their problem, not mine, I'll just leave it and move on". On the other hand, it is worth stopping for a minute, stepping back, and asking yourself "is it just him/her being stupid, or have I made a mistake?" Sometimes you will have made a mistake, because everybody does, and when that happens the best thing is to say "I see I was wrong, thanks for putting me right", and move on. Most people will accept that we all make mistakes, and be willing to drop the matter if you accept you have made a mistake. I find that even when someone has been really rude and aggressive, saying not just "sorry I was wrong", but "thanks for helping me" very often changes their attitude dramatically: people like it when you say nice things to them, and feel more like being nice to you. Of course, not everyone responds like that, but people who still stick to being unpleasant come under the "it's their problem, not mine, I'll forget it and move on" heading.
  2. I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "a fear of involvement or a fear of compromise", but compromise is often necessary. Quite often I have to accept a compromise, or even something which I believe is 100% wrong, because there is too much of a body of opinion against what I believe is right. At one time I used to hate giving in under such circumstances, but eventually I came to realise that, with over a million articles on Wikipedia, I can only hope to move a tiny minority of them in the direction which I think is right, and I am better off spending my time making improvements to 20 articles than spending the same amount of time fighting over one article where I won't get my way.
I have no idea whether those comments will be any help to you or not, and you are welcome to take them or leave them as you see fit. I will try to remember to look at this page, and at your editing history from time to time, and let you know if I have anything to say. JamesBWatson (talk) 20:29, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) You should turn that into an essay, JBW. It is good stuff. - Sitush (talk) 23:43, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, Sitush! TParis you said: 'I think someone who could help you with finding the right approach to take in disputes would be helpful. I'm willing to help, but I'm in your block log quite a bit so I understand if you decide to go elsewhere. I think overall your editing is fine, you just tend to feel trapped in disputes.'

That is well said, I agree. Let's hope nothing ever gets to dispute-level, but if anything happens, I will come to you because I always feel you have been helpful toward me. But I'd love to have your guidance. I saw how you did with some recent unrelated-to-me things, very skillfully done.

T, I meant compromise in the spirit of somehow compromising their position. Recently an admin helping another admin said he felt compromised just by having read some diffs in a dispute. That is what I meant. As to editing decisions, I always live to compromise - I find article-possessive or just plain mean editors who won't compromise that way, but that was not what I meant.

James said: 'I will try to remember to look at this page, and at your editing history from time to time, and let you know if I have anything to say.'

Cheers James, I am very happy for that. Also, I want both you and TParis to know if I run into a difficulty or have a question, I will bring it to one of you. I look forward to this sort of help, and I want to state in addition that you both are always welcome, your comments always welcome. You have clear eyes for this work.Djathinkimacowboy 23:59, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

  • Just for the record in case any one has misunderstood, I deliberately did not make mentorship a condition of the unblock - it was not something I forgot. Cowboy is welcome to seek mentorship if he really thinks he needs it, but the unblock request seems to suggest quite strongly that he realises what his errors were, and that avoiding them in the future should not be too difficult. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:49, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Kudpung, it was clear and a fair decision, but I went into this with TParis' suggestions in mind. T suggested I might try mentorship and I like the idea. It's just that I really don't think WP even has much of a 'mentorship program'. It is no trouble, but I'd feel better editing knowing I could have a skilled admin over my shoulder. Also someone there to help.Djathinkimacowboy 00:59, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Djathinkimacowboy. I don't know whether you're aware of it or not, but the adopt-a-user project lists a number of editors who are willing to provide mentorship (as well as the more conventional adoption, which you may find more appropriate anyway). Welcome back to editing, by the way. Yunshui  08:46, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Many thanks Yunshui, it is something I am still examining and your post is very helpful. It crossed my mind that no editor would want to do adoption at this point, but one never knows. Thanks again, all info is very important and I can tell you I'll be looking into the adopt-a-user program.Djathinkimacowboy 16:48, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

I just thought I would let you know, Mycroft, that I have had a quick look through your recent edits, as I said I would, and everything looks fine. JamesBWatson (talk) 08:08, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Splendid, old boy. My thanks. Some one of these days I shall have you at the Diogenes Club: there's a letter 'r' in the month and that is when they have the finest oysters.~©Djathinkimacowboy 18:39, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Five metals ring

Sorry that somehow I managed to overlook or forget your query about this on my talk page, Mycroft, but I found it when I was doing some cleaning up of the page, and I have now answered it here. JamesBWatson (talk) 10:30, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Shall tend to it presently, thanks Watson.~©Djathinkimacowboy 17:43, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
Replies made there, Watson, thank you.~©Djathinkimacowboy 17:57, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Three messages

  1. I've replied to your requests for help on my talk page. I hope my replies are helpful.
  2. Thanks for the barnstar. It is nice to know that sometimes what I do is appreciated, especially at times when I have been having more than the usual amount of attacks and bad-mouthing from editors who don't like what I've been doing.
  3. I would avoid edits like this one, if I were you. Even if the opinion you express is perfectly reasonable, expressing it that way is likely to be seen as a personal attack. That could well be taken as a breach of your unblock conditions. Better to either keep quiet, or be studiously diplomatic. With a bit of thought, it is possible to convey the fact that you think someone's opinions are completely unreasonable while being perfectly polite. In fact, doing it that way can often get your point across more effectively than a blunt message, because people are less likely to just dismiss your message. JamesBWatson (talk) 10:19, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Watson, I must still have a glance at your replies to my queries. As to the reference you made, I am very grateful for the input. It seemed to me that I might alleviate with some humour but I think you are 100% correct; you see how that never occurred to me. That will not happen again no matter how fun it may seem. Frankly, I couldn't stand the attitude of the poster which reminded me of my old attitude. I certainly thank you for bringing that to my attention. Whether it helps or not, I shall remove it with your permission.~©Djathinkimacowboy 20:14, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Did you notice?

Hi Dja, just another little heads-up, this time about your message "Have you remembered to sign your message?" at the bottom of your talk page.

In Firefox the message covers about 3/4 of the bottom line of the last comment. In IE it covers 1/4 of the line. I have been experimenting with the HTML a bit, and I think I found the mistake. It says "margin: 0em 0 1em;" and I think that should be "margin: 0em 0.1em;" — in other words, there's a dot missing.

When I read my reply now, I can't read the left part of my closing line. Thought you might wanna know. - DVdm (talk) 20:48, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Oh, D, yes, just the post I was awaiting. I of course copied that thing from someonone else'e page and just lifted it--and he has it like I do. I will see if the change you mention will fix that annoying overlap problem. Cheers!~©Djathinkimacowboy 20:53, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Clever D!! It worked. Damned html gobbledygook gets me every time. Perhaps I ought to inform the other feller also and see if he can change it. Cheers, you editor-from-another-world you! And I ought to clarify you were exactly right, only there was actually an additional space too, so it just read as "0 1" instead of "0.1".~©Djathinkimacowboy 20:55, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
¡Mucho mejor! - DVdm (talk) 20:56, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
A mi tambien me gusta asi.~©Djathinkimacowboy 20:58, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

An opinion on recent events

I know you retracted your recent comments on my talk page, but I will still offer you my opinions, which I hope will help.

I don't see anything rude or in any other way objectionable about this edit. I have no idea whatever why the other editor objected to it. I don't blame you for posting to say that you didn't mean to be rude, but perhaps it would have been better not to say "You know, yerhaps [sic] you could have been a bit less rude too". Alternatively, you could have decided it was too unimportant to be worth mentioning at all. (Note that I actually agree with what you said, but I am suggesting that, even when what you say is right, sometimes it is better to leave it unsaid, and if not then you could have missed out the more critical bit.) When we come to this, however, I think we are at the stage where you definitely made a mistake. There really was no useful purpose in continuing the discussion, as the other editor was clearly taking a sympathetic point of view, and in any case the whole thing was about something so trivial that it was not worth bothering with. And what is more, you didn't just make a neutral comment, but escalated the discussion by using such language as "to pick a fight" and "you seem to have forgotten something".

I will summarise what I think are the essential points here. I fully agree that you did nothing wrong to begin with, and the response you got seems to me to have been unreasonable. However, if someone has been unreasonable, you have tried to clear up the misunderstanding, and they stick to being unreasonable, then there is rarely any point in carrying the discussion on. It is very unlikely they will suddenly change tack at this point. If it's something really important then it may be worth trying to seek help from elsewhere, but for something as trivial as this case, it's better to shrug it off and forget it. There are much better things for you to spend your time on. Finally, although I think it would have been better to have stopped earlier, at least you did realise that it was better to drop the matter before it got really out of hand. There is progress, and I trust you can build on that progress. JamesBWatson (talk) 08:43, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Watson, I appreciate all you have said. And I agree--because it wasn't what I wanted either, but I still went ahead and posted. What I would draw to your attention is perhaps a bit niggling, but as I said I like that editor and am not angry: why post deliberately with one's IP and then try to use it in such a bizarre fashion? I honestly thought the IP was someone else intruding, but I did not post anything addressing that at first. I did not know editors could do such things. However, be that as it may, I want you to know I appreciate and agree with your evaluation--and it won't be forgotten. I really wish I had walked away completely, as you pointed out, instead of posting again.~©Djathinkimacowboy 01:05, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Also, I wonder whether I simply exasperated that editor earlier. I got lots of assistance from that quarter, perhaps he tired of it finally. It all makes me sad, as I have stated. Again, thank you for your help in this matter. Your review of it and the evaluation you left me here is priceless and a good reference for me.~©Djathinkimacowboy 01:09, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Page protection

I noticed that this page was still semi-protected to stop the unconstructive IP edits that took place in April, while you were blocked. Since the reason for the protection no longer applies, I have unprotected it. I'm sure you don't need persuading that IP editors have as much right to be able to contact you as those of us who have established accounts. JamesBWatson (talk) 08:54, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Cheers Watson. I am absolutely in agreement and believe it or not, I was wondering about it but did not know. As I said someplace else here, I edited here for nearly a decade starting in the 1990s under my IP and was always treated well. I have never forgotten that.~©Djathinkimacowboy 01:00, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

A cheerful notation about IPs and their strange ways...

An example: this diff shows someone editing with an IP very close to mine was at the time, though I cannot locate what mine was. It was clearly not I--in spite of what looks stunningly like my style of writing--it is not I, as seen here and that proof simply because I have no interest in Darrington, Washington and did not even know it existed. Yet I recall I did edit at Panama Hat, God knows when, since I have always loved hats. Sadly, it is the very best I can do to illustrate how horribly things can go awry and how awful it is that someone would actually utilise that weakness. These IPs! Can't Wp do something about all this?~©Djathinkimacowboy 12:14, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

(This actually makes me a bit itchy to go edit at Panama hat since I collect them and absolutely love the subject! Too risky, does anyone think?)~©Djathinkimacowboy 12:16, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Here's another IP at Panama Hat (diff's here) and again, that is certainly not I because by then I had my username. There's this too, not even a slim chance it was I. Proof is here, a diff representing something I edited on that very date of 9-FEB-2012, for Birthstones--one of among dozens. Surely the above info is one way to exonerate myself, since it can be seen how these IPs can become easily conflated. At that time, judging from my history, I was working very intently on birthstones and adding something to the article on rings. So as irritated as I am by all this, let the false accuser raise the cry at an SPI if he dares.~©Djathinkimacowboy 12:31, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

As you know, I unblocked you to give you another chance. As you also know, I have put some time and effort into trying to help you overcome the problems you had experienced. The unblock was on the basis of your agreement to conditions proposed by Kudpung. Among other things, those conditions said: "You will not make or exercise any battleground approach, baseless accusations of sockpuppetry, personal attacks, incivility, or harassment," and "Any single breach of the above may result in an indefinite block and a permanent site ban."

I have tried to give you a considerable amount of leeway. For example,

here I wrote "Even if the opinion you express is perfectly reasonable, expressing it that way is likely to be seen as a personal attack. That could well be taken as a breach of your unblock conditions." In fact, a more accurate description was that what you did clearly was a personal attack, and clearly was a breach of your unblock conditions, but I was trying to give you as much of a chance as possible, and I preferrred to try to help you rather than condemn you. However, you continued with a battleground approach, incivility, harassment, and so forth, so that it has increasingly looked like a question of when rather than whether you would be blocked again. I will remind you once more that the unblock conditions, to which you agreed, included the statement that any single breach might result in an indefinite block and a permanent site ban. You have made far more than one single breach of those conditions, but I have held back from invoking that clause of the conditions. However, it has now come to my attention that your editing has all along been a flagrant violation of courtesy vanishing, and that you have had previous accounts blocked for sockpuppetry. Contrary to what you seem to think, the evidence for this is not just use of similar IP addresses. There is far more than enough evidence to constitute proof beyond all doubt.You have also compounded your offence by angrily attacking an editor who mentioned, in a perfectly civil way, that you had a previous account (without even suggesting that you had abused them), making totally unsubstantiated accusations about that editor, and denying what is clearly the case.

Both because of your breach of the conditions of your unblock and because of other issues, such as your history of sockpuppetry and you attempt to abuse courtesy vanishing to evade scrutiny, I have blocked you again, indefinitely. Also, you may regard the permanent site ban (which you agreed could be imposed if you broke your unblock conditions) as now being in force. JamesBWatson (talk) 14:52, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, not only have you totally disregarded the conditions of your unblock, but you have abused the good faith of James and myself who are among the most forgiving of admins. I have no alternative but to confirm the enactment of the permanent site ban which requires no further admin discussion, and I am extending the block to your talk page.(Defacto banned). If you wish to appeal the permanent site ban, you may do so by following the instructions at WP:BASC. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 22:11, 21 October 2012 (UTC)