User talk:Dodger67/Archive 2

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A request for you at WT:MOS

Hi Roger. I have left a request for you here. And I mean it. Best wishes to you! –¡ɐɔıʇǝoNoetica!T– 22:14, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Well done Roger. Thanks for fixing that. –¡ɐɔıʇǝoNoetica!T– 08:20, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

See also section

These section are not generally recommended per WP:MEDMOS. Especially when the stuff they contain is of little / no us. Wikipedia is not a collection of links. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:59, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Comments on my questionnaire

Thank you so much for your wonderful review comments for the questionnaire about "motivation to contribute to Wikipedia" I posted on. According to your comments on the word "realizing', I have just changed the word into "actualizing". However, I am not sure that "actualizing' does not have the same problem you mentioned for "realizing". I established a online form for the survey. Please visit the online form and give me additional comments on the online form. cooldenny (talk) 11:40, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Majuba Aviation crash

If the article is deleted, I can provide you with a userfied version if you wish. However, the sources in the article are probably not reliable. The ASN Wikibase entry, whilst not reliable itself, has links to several reliable sources that can be used. Would suggest these should be used. Mjroots (talk) 16:54, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I've actually moved on and no longer need that. I simply copy-pasted the "core" of the article into my Sandbox for the parent company's article - User:Dodger67/Sandbox/Italtile. There are indeed far better sources from South African news media websites and others. I suppose I should post a "retraction" of my request. Thanks. Roger (talk) 17:03, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Air France 7

Cool, I know accident. Qantasplanes (talk) 06:48, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you

Modest Barnstar.png The Modest Barnstar
Thanks for your recent contributions! -Mike Restivo (talk) 20:12, 29 April 2011 (UTC)


Anytime :) WhisperToMe (talk) 17:46, 4 May 2011 (UTC)


The summary arguments at Talk:Corvette are unsigned because they are, like article content, collaborative efforts. Also like articles, with more editors contributing, they are improving. If you think something is particularly unfair or biased or is not presented in an NPOV fashion in these summary arguments, please improve them accordingly, or at least alert others about your concern in a comment, instead of deleting it wholesale. But please do not delete it again. If you still think it should be removed, please participate in the discussion about it on the Corvette talk page. Thanks. --Born2cycle (talk) 07:24, 10 May 2011 (UTC)


You probably need to restore your comment which got deleted by edits[1]. I am having some difficulties editing this page, hence I am not doing it myself. --MyMoloboaccount (talk) 13:21, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Mantsopa Local Municipality

I wasn't arguing whether the change has happened or not — but the category you want to add has to actually exist before you're allowed to use it, as redlinked (i.e. non-existent) categories are not permitted on Wikipedia articles. You need to either create the category or find another alternative that actually exists (such as a state-level parent category), but until the article is actually filed in a proper category it needs to remain tagged as uncategorized. Bearcat (talk) 04:47, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I somehow overlooked it. We're in the middle of a massive edit and cleanup process in the South African local government articles. We had nationwide municipal elections last week and some local and district councils changed boundaries and status. I'll add "verify all the categories" to the to-do list. Roger (talk) 06:27, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
I checked and found the problem - a simple typo! In the correct category "Municipality" has an upper case initial. Roger (talk) 07:28, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Excessive citations in election article

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Dodger67. You have new messages at Gk sa's talk page.
Message added 18:20, 24 May 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Enjoyed your comment

Hi Dodger, I enjoyed your editorial comment re the Northern Cape article: "Removed meaningless nonsense about "last true San". Lifestyle does not define ethnicity." The tendency has been to let lifestyle equal ethnicity. By the way, there is a category Wikipedians in the Northern Cape - I gather you might be residing within this province? All the best, Blarcrean (talk) 05:58, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

LMAO!! "Lifestyle does not define ethnicity." Thank you btw, for fixing that embarrassing mistake that I made on the Square Kilometer Array. Respect Increase :) --User:DiscipleOfKnowledge (talk) 15:51, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Special education

Just so you understand the background of what has been happening there, a banned user has been repeatedly trying to get the article edited to reflect their personal views. They have been extremely persistent, in fact they are the only reason the article has been semi-protected for so long. In the interest of denying recognition to this user and their disruptive fixation on this article, comments and requests from their never-ending stream of sockpuppets may removed without comment in accordance with the banning policy. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:12, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok thanks, but surely there should be at least something in the edit summary? Roger (talk) 20:14, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Number format

I've replied to your message on my page, but I'll repose it here, in case you don't see it. I don't understand. In the article you cite, Decimal mark, it says clearly that South Africa uses the comma as its thousands separator. Besides, no matter what system South Africa uses I don't see any reason why the English Wikipedia should adopt that system for South Africa-related articles. I mean, we don't use 1.000 in French or German articles, why should we use 1 000 for South African articles? I believe the English Wikipedia needs to have a standard system, and since 99% of the numbers already use 1,000 I think that should be used everywhere. Has there been any previous discussion on this before? What is the official policy? --Hibernian (talk) 18:35, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Your request for rollback

Wikipedia Rollback.svg

Hi Dodger67. After reviewing your request for rollback, I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback:

  • Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
  • Rollback should be used to revert clear cases of vandalism only, and not good faith edits.
  • Rollback should never be used to edit war.
  • If abused, rollback rights can be revoked.
  • Use common sense.

If you no longer want rollback, contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some more information on how to use rollback, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback (even though you're not an admin). I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, but feel free to leave me a message on my talk page if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of rollback. Thank you for helping to reduce vandalism. Happy editing! FASTILY (TALK) 18:49, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

South Sudan

Why did you unedit by edit on South Sudan? It IS The Republic of South Sudan, not Republic of South Sudan. --Linux731 (talk) 14:38, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Read the discussion on the article talk page. Roger (talk) 17:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Reference Desk Removal

user:Looie496 has removed one of your contributions of the reference desk [2]. It is being discussed on the Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk#Removed Section. Buddy432 (talk) 03:26, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

General Atomics MQ-1 Predator Unit cost

I hold that the cost of the General Atomics MQ-1 system Predator is 40 million $ for the following reasons:

A) It puts it in link, so much in yours as in mine.

B) In the above mentioned link it does not appear for any divides a reference to a cost for every UAV that integrates the system of 10 million $, whereas in one of my two references if there shows a cost of 4,5 million $, in addition if the General Atomics MQ-1C Herd Eagle costs today 8 millions of $, the UAV of the one that was developed 14 years ago cannot cost 10 million $.

C) The unitary cost says to the system, not to the UAV that it integrates it, nobody buys an alone UAV, or an UAV and a console, the complete system is acquired, as with the systems of anti-aircraft missiles no country buys X batteries, buys the system that includes multiple batteries. --Codepage (talk) 07:00, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I copied this topic to the article's talk page, please discuss it there. Roger (talk) 07:16, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

August 2011

Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, please do not remove citations or information sourced through citations simply because a link to a source is not working, as you did to MRAP. Dead links should not be deleted. Instead, please repair or replace the link, if possible, and ensure properly sourced information is retained. Often, a live substitute link can be found. Links not used as references, notes or citations are not as important, such as those listed in the "External links" or "Further reading" sections, but bad links in those sections should also be fixed if possible. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Marcus Qwertyus 09:54, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Nelson Mandela

I humbly admit foolishness about that flaw. I should have had it on authority before posting it. I feel terribly bad about it. Thanks for taking time to notice it. Olusegun (talk) 14:29, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Ref Desk Removal

User:Medeis has removed one of your comments on the reference desk [3]. It is being discussed on the talk page. Buddy431 (talk) 19:34, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Date in image files

  • With all due respect, please don't take offence that I've reverted two of your recent edits (1 & 2), sometimes you need to click on the photos to find the relevant infromation you seek and dating them inside of infoboxes are not specifically disallowed, especially when the dates themselves are being used to tell the reader/viewer something of relevance. Best and out. --Dave ♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫® 07:59, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
IMHO the date is of no significance at all. What does it matter when the marine looked through the sight or when the missile was launched. Roger (talk) 08:17, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
  • You may say that now but what about the ordinary readers/viewers? They won't see things your way, especially in Milkor MGL, where the caption is dated for when the Milkor MGL was newly issued to a Marine unit, how can they tell without the stated date? We can trim off needless text in the main body of the article page but for images, its another story altogether because of the need to condense/summarize things, the date plays an important part of telling a story. Or would you have something that's a total non-descriptive one-liner instead? Again, with all due respect, perhaps you would like to read up on the arcane part of WP:Manual of Style/Images and/or WP:Manual of Style#Images before coming to a conclusion that I was incorrect to have reverted your edit? --Dave ♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫® 08:39, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
The date when the USMC took it into service is in the aricle, where it belongs, together with further detail. The purpose of an infobox image is simply to show what the subject of the article looks like. Extraneous detail such as the date of the photo is irrelevant to the article itself and is available on the image description page if anyone wants to know. See WP:Manual of Style/Captions. Roger (talk) 09:49, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
See WP:AGF and WP:CIVIL. Working on WP is not an adverserial process. Roger (talk) 15:01, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Irony, I don't professed to be all knowledgeable but at least I ask whenever in doubt, so I'd think you should take a long hard look at them yourself before quoting them to me as I've been very civil right from the beginning until you started lawyering. Adieu~! --Dave ♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫® 23:41, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

POVTITLE explicit percentage

Did you read the discussion? It is explained there why a percentage is a good idea - this is the key part. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:14, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes I have and I agree with the (well over 2/3rds) majority of participants that your and B2C's arguments are not convincing. There is no consensus for the change you made so I reverted it. BTW I am not willing to discuss this matter any further here, all discussion should be kept in one place. Roger (talk) 19:31, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
Cool, sorry if it was a little aggressive to ask the question. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:32, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Tel Aviv airports

Tel Aviv has 2 airports with passenger service: Ben Gurion International Airport and Sde Dov Airport. Therefore Tel Aviv must have disamiguation. Snoozlepet (talk) 16:19, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I learn something new every time I come to WP. Thanks! Roger (talk) 16:46, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

November 2011

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

  1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
  2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.  Chzz  ►  16:48, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your message on my talk. I'm sorry for the 'warning'; I do know you are not new - but I can hardly just warn one party. There's the WP:NOTTHEM element here; whatever the other aspects are, it takes two to edit-war - and if the page is 'wrong' while the IP either learns to collaborate, or gets bored, or hangs themselves (and is blocked), then fine.
I do appreciate your point - Wikipedia is indeed not for promoting separatist causes; but it's content-dispute, not vandalism; you've got to at least attempt discussion.
I had also requested protection already, but changed my mind [4].
Anyway; I'm sorry if you were annoyed by the warning, but I assure you I was merely trying to do the best I could to prevent disruption; article histories full of battles don't help any of us. I hope you'll accept it in good faith, and just relax about the article for a while - have a nice cuppa or something and by the time you're back, they'll probably have got bored or got themselves blocked.
Please consider the warning as just a 'take care'/'be careful'. Best,  Chzz  ►  17:14, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
P.S. An admin added comments about it over on my talk, whilst I was typing the above - so take a look there too.  Chzz  ►  17:15, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
Made a section on the talk page and contacted the other user so they can fully express why they feel Catalonia should be split from Spain on that page, Talk:List of amateur radio organizations#Catalonia, hope they reply :) Snowolf How can I help? 17:21, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
IP blocked [5]  Chzz  ►  18:13, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Advanced High Performance Reconnaissance Light Aircraft

The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Your removal of referenced material in the Black Mamba article

Before you remove any referenced material, you must first discuss it. So first we discuss it, then we clean it up (which I think it doesn't any "cleaning up"). Who are you to claim "emotive adjectives"? Are you a herpetologist? a scientist? a biologist? Do you know anything about snakes at all? It is a well known fact among the herpetological community that the black mamba is regarded as the deadlest snake in the world (this is based on the fact that untreated bites are 100% fatal - no snake besides the Coastal Taipan comes close - most snakes, over 90% of them, don't even reach the 50% region of mortality rate) and most herpetologist agree that when molested, the species dendroaspis polylepis is the most aggressive/most difficult to handle in the world. It is a combination of its size, speed (fastest snake in the world), agility, virulent venom toxicity, and extremely explosive nature that make this snake the deadliest and most aggressive species. This is something agreed upon among most herpetologist's. I've studied herpetology, particularly snakes and especially members of the family Elapidae for a very, very long time. I've had hands on experience with snakes (mostly boas and pythons, but I've handled venomous snakes aswell, including a number of Rattlesnake's, an Eyelash viper and three kinds of cobra species (Naja naja, Naja nivea, and Naja kaouthia). Plus, if you look at the "Objectivity" and "Trustworthy" sections of the rating scale, both have gone up steeply since I began correcting everything in this article. "Objectivity" was at 2.9, it is above 4 now. So I'm a lot more versed in the subject of venomous snakes than you are, no offense. Bastian (talk) 23:26, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I'd also like to add that everything in the introduction is true and is referenced. You can go here and go to page 3 or you can go here and check out page 4, and read where it says in plain English language:
"MANY SNAKE EXPERTS have cited the African black mamba (Dendroaspis polylepis) and the Australian taipan (Oxyuranus scutelletus) as the world's most dangerous snakes (Hunter, 1998). In addition, some snakes are reputed to be actively aggressive and may attack with little or no provocation. The Black forest cobra and the African black mamba have this characteristic of being particularly aggressive (B. Johnson, July 13, 2000; Hunter, 1998)."
This is just the tip of the iceberg. Nearly all snake experts will tell you something very similar. This is common knowledge in the world of venomous snakes. There are no "emotive adjectives" involved in anything here - that's just your point of view and in Wikipedia articles, your point of view means nothing. Your edit of the introduction and "Behavior" section were simply unfair and showed the amount of ignorance you have in the subject as a whole. Of course, I don't mean that in a bad way, but it I find it counter-productive for people to edit things without having some knowledge on the subject matter. The introduction is nothing but that: an introduction to the article. The introduction to the black mamba article is a very accurate, objective, and well-written one. The behavior section merely talks about the snake's behavior, which was mentioned briefly in the intro. The edits weren't necessary. Plus, you should first bring it up on the talk page of the article before going about and editing an entire intro to an article or a scientifically referenced part in the "Behavior" section, two parts which were well written and well referenced. Bastian (talk) 01:06, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
You seriously need to chill a little! I have absolutely no idea which edit of mine has prompted you to post this long rambling text here. Roger (talk) 06:32, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
LOL. You mad, brah? --User:DiscipleOfKnowledge (talk) 11:23, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
No not mad or anything, just totally baffled - I have absolutely no idea why I am the recipient of this TLDR lecture. I have not removed any significant content from the article. The last few edits I have done to it were minor grammar tweaks. Roger (talk) 12:16, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but you made this perfectly fine and referenced edit here in the intro. Looking back, the "Behavior" section was ok, I apologize for that. I'm all for minor tweaks, but not scientifically accurate and referenced material removal based on ones (in this case, yours Roger) point of view that there is still too much "emotive adjectives". In anycase, I did make a bigger deal out of this than I should have, so I apologize to you Roger for my tone. Didn't mean to come off as being rude. Bastian (talk) 17:05, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I've examined the diff and all I see is a simple housekeeping edit I removed a fragment of a misformatted citation. If that fragment is in fact part of a reference that needs to be there ( something that I have no way of knowing as I don't have access to the source so it is impossible for me to properly identify it) there is nothin stopping you from returning it as a complete and properly formatted citation. Really, dude just do the edit and move on, there is no need to write a PhD dissertation about every freaking comma! Roger (talk) 17:49, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
I agree with this. The issue(s) seem rather trivial. I checked the diff history. Disputes will invariably arise but sometimes we have to acquiesce our opinions on small matters such as these so we can focus on the bigger things. Everybody have a cookie and move on so that we can do some real work on The Great Encyclopaedia. Peace out, homies. <3 --User:DiscipleOfKnowledge (talk) 22:40, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Great. You had your "little changes" (the "Headings"), now please just leave this article be. It is a good article nominee and I don't want the reviewer (who ever it is going to be) to think there is an edit war going on here so I'm going to let this pass because it really makes very little difference what the header is. I mean I don't get your intentions. Are you helping by trying to make the article a better one or are you more interested in sabotage? At this point, that is a legit question. I put in hours of work and research into a subject where I clearly have the expertise on the subject matter (that you don't have), then you come at a critical time (when it is a good article nominee) and decide the headings should change (which I don't care about). Are you working with me or against me? That IP User is a multiple account user, he has had a really bad hard on for trying to make this article look as bad as possible - why? Your guess is as good as mine. This article is very objective, clear, accurate, and over-all well written and well-referenced. I am not trying to be an asshole or anything, but I put in a lot of work into this article and I just want it to get reviewed as a good article nominee. With IP users and vandals like and then you changing all the headings, it's not going to help the case for this article. It is clearly a GA status article at this point, so I don't want little edit wars and some vandal ruining that. The headings are "good now" (I don't know what the difference between them now and before, but anyways...) and the article is a fine piece of work. Let's leave it alone until at least it's reviewed as a good article nominee, ok? Bastian (talk) 15:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification

Hi. In Sophiatown, you recently added a link to the disambiguation page Conglomerate (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 13:01, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

 Done Changed link to Conglomerate (geology) Roger (talk) 09:02, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Season's tidings!

Christmas lights - 1.jpg

FWiW Bzuk (talk) 03:17, 25 December 2011 (UTC).

Thanks! Roger (talk) 18:37, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Welcome back

Welcome back from your leave. Hope you had a good time. ShiningWolf (talk) 05:01, 11 January 2012 (UTC)


Please see WP:REVDEL which mentions the Streisand effect. In future request revision deletion by the correct methodsfredgandt 16:35, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Avoiding the Streisand effect is the reason why I requested that even the request itself should also be revdeleted. Roger (talk) 16:38, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Understood. However, the more fuss is made the worse it gets. Generally, making the request, works best by email. Quite and quick. Anyway, at least the kid has definitely got the message now Face-wink.svg fredgandt 16:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
If only I have the time, I'd rather have liked to WP:Adopt her, she seems just the type of youngster we need - she's capable of writing proper sentences! Roger (talk)


I've popped by Spina_bifida, and have commented there. I'm aware you're a much more experienced editor than me and this is very important to you, but it might help to dial back the approach a little... Your passion is slightly clouding the good points you make.  :) Failedwizard (talk) 21:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Mustard seed

Hi Dodger. Note that I collapsed the discussion on WP:RD/S with a link to the WT:RD#Religion on the Science Refdesk again! section you created. -- ToE 12:35, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Roger (talk) 12:41, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

KLM Destinations

Roger, sovereign states have ambassadors and issue passports not countries, although most countries are sovereign states. England is a country of that there is no doubt, but it is not sovereign. Regardless of this argument, what is the actual problem with stating in a Wikipedia article that London is in England and Aberdeen is in Scotland etc? I cannot see the problem. (talk) 12:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

See WT:WikiProject Airlines#UK not a country - Please keep this discussion on one page. Roger (talk) 12:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Removing comments made by others

Please refrain from removing comments made by others. Your edit has been reverted. Thank you. Von Restorff (talk) 13:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

thanks for the Warning

i am afraid your article about the Black mamba( is wrong regarding the the speed of the snake. the movement speed of the snake is being said to be 16-20 Km/h which is equivalent to 0.44 m/s - 0.55 m/s ... the values that you have are outrageous 4.32m/s=155.52 Km/h=97.2Mph and 5.4m/s=194.4Km/h=121.5Mph. so before you send any more Vandalism Warnings please check the details. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yolinkin (talkcontribs) 13:22, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Field hockey

Even if you think they are talking rubbish, you should not edit another editor's comments on a talk page - see WP:TPO. I've reverted your edit, but then replaced the comment you added in the same edit. PamD 19:15, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, that was accidental - I meant to copy-paste but did cut-paste instead. (Note to self: Don't edit WP pages when in a hurry to go out!) Roger (talk) 06:45, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
It happens! (Hit the "vandalism" button unintentionally recently by not waiting for the page to load properly or something, had to grovel in apology). PamD 08:19, 11 February 2012 (UTC)


Hi, just so you know - per this GA (Talk:Stephen_Hawking/GA4) I've made this [6] change, which I also agree with, I'm aware you're not a fan, would you like us to take it to the talk? (I'd be quite happy with the idea of an entirely separate assistive technology section, but I think we'd need some more sources for both the wheelchair and the HCI stuff...) Cheers Fayedizard (talk) 08:12, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes we'll have to just leave it like that until we can develop a more comprehensive assitive technology section, or even a section incorporating the technology as well as something about his personal assistants (I vaguely remember reading that his second wife was his assistant before they married). Roger (talk) 10:58, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Cool, glad your happy about it :) Fayedizard (talk) 11:38, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Genocide Watch

I see see you have also taken an interest in this. It seems to me to be a self-promoting one man "organization" trolling for donations. Of course quite a few editors (and vandals) use the Genocide Watch website to support various claims and allegations.

I would like to nominate it for deletion, but I don't know how to go about it. Can you help me?

pietopper (talk) 11:54, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I've just PRODed it - let's see if it sticks. If it survives WP:PROD the next step is the full WP:AfD procedure. Roger (talk) 12:07, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


Hello Dodger67, I just reviewed Sophiatown, an article which you nominated for GA. The article is good but still lacking a little bit. You may read by comments on the GA review talk page.--12george1 (talk) 21:46, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for all you help on this Roger. Your copy editing skills are superb as testified by the review. I will look at the referencing stuff tomorrow afternoon. ShiningWolf (talk) 07:53, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Fixed all the remaining issues. Maybe check out the comments on reference 1. Cant add access date as it is generated from a template. Not sure what the next steps are so over to you. ShiningWolf (talk) 12:35, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Excellent! I've notified the reviewer, User:12george1, that the issues raised in the review have now been addressed and the article is ready for rating. Roger (talk) 12:51, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

The Parlotones

Hi Roger

The Parlotones entire page is a joke considering their real achievements. The current bio makes the statement that they have a lot of money how is that a levant fact to the story of the band. I have been working with this band for 10 years and your bio makes them sound like an insignificant garage band instead of the most successful South African band of all time. If you insist on doing this then let me help you with some facts you can go and verify.

Raphael Domalik Manager of The Parlotones and Founder of Sovereign Entertainment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raphaeldomalik (talkcontribs) 22:44, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Raphael, Welcome to Wikipedia. I agree the article is a mess and I would really love to help fix it.
Yes, verifiable facts from reliable sources is exactly what we need.
In view of your close association with the band there are three really important guidelines you need to read - Conlict of interest, Neutral point of view and Advertising.
A Wikipedia article may not be written in a way that promotes or advertises the subject - the article must contain only neutral, factual material. Regarding sources, we can only used published material, personal knowlege (I was there) is not verifiable. If you could point to press articles, interviews, etc they would be ideal sources. Less desirable but still useful to a limited extent are press releases and other material published by the band and it's promoters - these are self published sources which must be used with caution only if third party sources for the particular information are not avialable.
Lastly I'd like to suggest that we continue this process at the article's Talk page rather than on your and my personal Talk pages - so that other interested people can also participate.
Thanks for your willingness to help fix up the article, sorry to dump you in the deep end with all the rules and policies, but that is how we maintain the encyclopedia's integrity. Roger (talk) 07:20, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
Started adding some references to improve the Parlotones. This is not going to be a quick job. ShiningWolf (talk) 20:11, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Team Barnstar Hires.png The Teamwork Barnstar
Roger, I thought that this is the appropriate thanks for helping the Sophiatown article get GA status. I could also have selected a copyeditor's barnstar to acknowledge your editing. The reason I chose this one was that you helped and coordinated the whole process and also guided and mentored a novice gently through all of this. Well done. ShiningWolf (talk) 10:43, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Roger (talk) 16:16, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Re: Rooivalk

Hey Roger. No worries about the Rooivalk renaming, I'll first propose any suggested move on the discussion page before going ahead and doing anything. I'll also be using the time before suggesting the move to find out more about how commonly Denel used the AH-2A designation. My edit to the SAAF article was in line with SAAF naming of the type, which before the hand-over seemed to refer exclusively to the 'Denel Rooivalk' and obviously subsequent to that has referred to the Denel Rooivalk MkI. Darren (talk) 14:10, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Black mamba/GA2

Nice, huh, a sock of the sock coming back to the GA that he screwed up in the first place. Drmies (talk) 15:46, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

African airlines

Hi! About this edit, AFAIK the document doesn't specify how much aircraft each category has. It's that airlines in Africa have a higher % of old aircraft than airlines around the world in general WhisperToMe (talk) 06:24, 22 March 2012 (UTC)


Hi, Dodger. Perhaps I'm being extraordinarily dense, but I don't understand your edit summary. What do the stamens' darkening have to do with it? The flowers appear in autumn. (Quoting from the article: "Only in October, after most other flowering plants have released their seeds, do its brilliantly hued flowers develop".) Rivertorch (talk) 07:51, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Well actually your edit summary said spring, sorry for the confusion. But anyway an error in a caption does not mean the image is necessarily wrong. Roger (talk) 07:56, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing it. Rivertorch (talk) 16:09, 25 March 2012 (UTC)


…Just wanted to say thank you for your general support on the Hawking push - things like [7] and generally keeping the talk page under control have made life a lot easier for me and it's been brilliant to be able to concentrate on the more pro-active stuff, without fearing I'll get into a protracted debate somewhere. Really appreciated. Fayedizard (talk) 22:11, 25 March 2012 (UTC)


Now that one of your questions about identification procedures at WP:Reference desk/Humanities is beginning to slip out of sight into the Ref. desk archives, I just wanted to let you know that I found and reported a detailed treatment of the question at Stop and identify statutes. —— Shakescene (talk) 04:47, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I've been watching the topic with fascination. I would never have guessed that such a simple question would result in such a huge discussion. It seems to be a somewhat hot topic in the US. Here in South Africa we have an ID bokk (looks a bit like a passport) which is used for everything from banking to voting. Roger (talk) 08:30, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Well back in the day, of course, South Africa's pass laws were used to control movement and residence (as internal passports did in Stalin's Russia, and no doubt Czarist Russia before that), and they led to far more vigorous controversy and unrest than they have so far in the U.S. I thought they were an innovation of the Nationalist governments that began with Daniel F. Malan's in 1948, but looking at Wikipedia, I see that (although strengthened by the Nationalists) they go back to 1945, 1923 and even 1797. Some areas of the ante-bellum American South required slaves outside their own plantations to carry passes showing that they were on accepted business with their owners' permission. Today, the main U.S. concerns about identification relate to immigration and voting, with a wave of Voter ID laws making it harder for those without standard documents to register and cast a ballot. —— Shakescene (talk) 21:54, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa

Hi Roger, trust that you are well. I want to submit the Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa article for GA status. Before I do that I just wondered if you wouldn't mind a quick sanity check to see if there are any glaring omissions or things that need fix up. Kind regards, ShiningWolf (talk) 07:47, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

I'll take a look but I must warn you that I'm not really up to speed on religion and churches articles. So I'll check structure, layout, language, etc, but not so much the content. Roger (talk) 10:46, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. Dont spend more than 10 mins on it. Just want to make sure there is not something glaringly wrong. ShiningWolf (talk) 18:22, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
It looks good, I didn't find any obvious errors. Roger (talk) 14:22, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks Roger. ShiningWolf (talk) 18:09, 3 April 2012 (UTC)


A Barnstar!
A smile for you

You’ve just received a random act of kindness! (talk) 14:05, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Got a job for you

How do we track the edits of an IP hopper? I'm not really clued up about such technicalities but I'll help where I can. Unfortunately I have a fairly heavy schedule of "meatworld" activities for about the next week, work and family duties so I'll only really be able to get stuck in after about Tuesday the 10th. No worries about "past differences". I have the attention span of a goldfish when it comes to "differences" on WP - given the reasonable application of AGF. We are all here to improve this project. Roger (talk) 13:48, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
  • If you have the attention span of a goldfish then what about me? Mind you, I have over 2000+ pages watchlisted and it gives me a headache at the end of every month just to review their relevance in my watchlist. Whatever it is, just keep those pages you have under your watchlist spotlessly free from their nonsensical hoax and maybe add a few more watchlisted along the way, thereby freeing me to perform other more important task of providing citations/references and amending content/text in them article pages. BTW, that IP hopper's modus operandi is pretty much the same, adding Cameroon as operators of weapons they don't possess in them article pages. Well? --Dave ♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫® 14:31, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
My watchlist is just as hairy! I watch most South African made military equipment articles as I was involved in updating them when the Denel company restructured and renamed practically all their divisions (and sold off a few) a few years ago. Roger (talk) 14:43, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
  • So it is agreeable then. BTW, how hairy can your watchlist be... is it anywhere near my two thousand mark (and still counting!)~? Face-grin.svg --Dave ♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫® 14:57, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Much appreciated

Thanks for reverting the PROMO material inserted by the user(s) on RBCB. I'm a relatively new editor and I wasn't sure how to approach the situation... so I definitely appreciate your assistance.None but shining hours (talk) 20:12, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

I posted a note to the IP's Talk page the IP's Talk page briefly explaing that their edits are problematic, let's hope they take heed. Roger (talk) 20:19, 6 April 2012 (UTC)'_iAfrika

It would seem that this article in the Zulu pedia is actually about the new national anthem after all (though my Zulu is ruuuuuusty), so the issue is a misnamed artile in Zulu. The robot got it right after all, IMO. . -- leuce (talk) 17:46, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

In that case the article's title is wrong, it needs to be moved to whatever 'National anthem of Mzansi Afrika' is in correct Zulu. Cheers Roger (talk) 20:20, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

SNDRI document

The ratings I am referring to are the marks out of 5 that viewers leave at the bottom of the page. Please can you help me so that the citations can reappear? Just let me know what I have to do.--Aschwole (talk) 17:36, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

I've replied in some detail on the Help page. Roger (talk) 18:22, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Velvet Sky

Hi Dodger67.

I am responding to your comment about the suspension of Velvet Sky's flight ops.

I was at Port Elizabeth Airport on Monday the 30th of April when the strangest thing happend. The Velvet Sky DC-9 ZS-GAU landed and a whole lot of people got off. Then about an hour later, a whole lot of people got on the plane and it proceeded to take off.

It is for that very reason I removed "(Supended)" from all of Velvet Sky's Airport Destinations.

Regards Ozzie — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ozzie1021 (talkcontribs) 20:51, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi Ozzie. There have been no reports in the media or even on Velvet Sky's own website about them resuming flights. According to Wikipedia's Verifiability and Reliable source policies, we can't post unsourced information in articles. Roger (talk) 14:52, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
I've found out (through a friend of a friend) that what you saw was a charter flight by Global Aviation. The plane belongs to Global - it was leased to VS. Global Aviation is waiting for the outcome of Velvet Sky's bankruptcy case before they might repaint it. So the short answer is - Velvet Sky have not (yet) resumed flights. Roger (talk) 09:00, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Army ranks and stuff

Hi Roger I saw your post on the SA Army page re ranks. I am willing to tackle it but need some images. Do you know what the copyright terms are on the site? Graham Gbawden (talk) 08:48, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

I have no idea about the rules covering SA government/state copyright - might be a good idea to ask at WT:WikiProject South Africa. Roger (talk) 08:51, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Army page

Hi. Was just about to tidy up the formation section. Stumbled accross it this morning and thought there had to be a better way to do it. I have time on my hands at the office - so if you need help with anything just ask. I might tackle the list of support bases next - will see what i feel like doing :) Gbawden (talk) 11:30, 9 May 2012 (UTC)


OK.....Take a look at the end of this sentence...I am going to use the signature/timestamp & the four tildes>> --DJ MELL STARR 13:31, 11 May 2012 (UTC) DJ MELL STARR 13:31, 11 May 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DJ Mell Starr (talkcontribs)


Thanks for the barnstar - much appreciated Check back Tues morn and the ranks page should be done. G Gbawden (talk) 07:05, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Working on getting more info for citations

1. Thank you for the help. Working on getting more info for citations.
2. Maybe u can help me with this Question: When I do a goggle search I don't see DJ Mell Starr for Wikipedia. Is this normal? QTPepsi (talk) 00:53, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
3. I think I fixed the 2 citations. Please take a look and let me know what you think. I'll try again if you say thier no good. QTPepsi (talk) 01:00, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Imaging instructions

To use a picture on Wikipedia, we need permission from whoever owns it.

  • If it is your OWN picture - then you can just upload it yourself, at "Commons", saying "It is entirely my own work" - at .
  • If it is NOT YOURS, then the owner can give permission in two ways;
A) They could put it on a website (flickr, or their own site) with an appropriate licence, such as "Public Domain" or "Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike" (that is an option in flickr)
B) They could email us permission. You could ask them to do that, by sending them an email saying something like:
"Hi, I've written a page on Wikipedia, and I'd really like to add a picture - but as Wikipedia is FREE, we can only use freely-licenced pictures. If you have any which you can give permission for, please send me an email back with the text below, and the picture(s) attached."
-Then add a copy of this: (having filled the form out)
-And send the email (attached picture file + completed form) to:

If any of your questions about how to insert images into an article aren't answered in these instructions, please refer to Help:Files and to Help:Contents/Images and media for a master-listing of all pertinent image-use links.
Hope this helps, Shearonink (talk) 18:05, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

I actually do know this stuff. I think you meant to post this on User talk:QTPepsi. Thanks Roger (talk) 18:13, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, helping in IRC/-help, mistakes sometimes do happen...yeah, you do seem to "know this stuff" heh... Shearonink (talk) 18:37, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
It's easy to get confused, I'm mentoring User:QTPepsi so our usernames pop up together on this issue. Roger (talk) 18:42, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Jacob Zuma and The Spear


Noted your removal of my point in Jacob Zuma around the artwork The Spear. I have since re-added it, with citations, I hope this satisfies your requirements to its eligibility?

Thanks, but it's not my requirement - it is a WP:BLP policy requirement. Roger (talk) 21:52, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Your edit summary

There is. You left out the second "i" in the name:-)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:42, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Which one? I tend to make a lot of typos in edit summaries Roger (talk) 12:20, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, I thought the timing would make it clear. WP:NOTABILITY is a shortcut. When you said at the help desk "can't believe there isn't an all caps shortcut to WP:Notability the same as thousands of other shortcuts", you had left out the second "I" when typing. I would never take anyone to task for a typo in an edit summary! (and if I did so that would be the most hypocritical act given the ridiculous number of typos I make per day).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:50, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Heads up re: your work on Paralympic classification

Hi Roger, Tony Naar from the Australian Paralympic Committee has made some comments about your draft of the Paralympic classification article on the HOPAU mailing list. The forthcoming workshop referred to in the email is this one in Brisbane on the 26th of May. If you'd like to join the HOPAU list to communicate with Tony and other members of the project, let me know and I'll send you an invite email. I would've sent this talk page message by email except you don't seem to have it enabled. Graham87 13:35, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi Graham, I haven't worked on the draft much lately as I'm in the middle of university exams. My last exam paper is on 5 June so after that I'll be able to spend some serious time on this matter. I have just joined the Google group, but I'm not able to post on the topic! Roger (talk) 13:51, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
OK, fair enough, good luck on the exams! I've just set your membership up so your posts can go straight through without moderator approval, so when you're able to post, you can do so easily. Graham87 14:20, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
It still says "Web replied disabled" so to reply by mail I would actually need to have a post in that topic sent to my email to give me the correct reply link. So could you please post to the the topic that I have just joined, then I'll be able to pick up the thread as soon as I get the mail. Roger (talk) 14:28, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
As it happens, I'd just posted a reply to the email thread before finding your message. Graham87 14:31, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


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Hello, Dodger67. You have new messages at Deathlaser's talk page.
Message added 15:31, 20 May 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Deathlaser :  Chat  15:31, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Army Corps

Sorry for creating you work on categories - thought i was emptying out an underused category Gbawden (talk) 06:43, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

No need to apologise - I also had to learn how the category system works. Roger (talk) 07:53, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Review me please

I would really appreciate it if some of my "Talk page stalkers" would take a look at my review request and leave some feedback. Thanks! Roger (talk) 14:05, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments posted so far but I really need an in-depth review. Roger (talk) 11:52, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Azawad page

The new about the agreement had been written in the page hours before I removed the sentence which is no longer true. I don't understand why you are trying to keep the old sentence about the independance being contested by Ansar Dine, since they agreed today to form an independant state with the MNLA. --Remzone (talk) 10:55, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Two rebel groups agreeing between themselves does not make any difference to the fact that no other countries recognise it as an independent country. The rebels need to reach an agreement with the recognised goverment of Mali before anyone would recognise them as legitimate. Roger (talk) 11:00, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

The change I made was not about international recognition, but about De facto control which is a different thing. --Remzone (talk) 11:02, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

OK I misread that, sorry. However we should not wipe out the past. The fact that Ansar Dine did (until now) contest the issue remains historically true. It should not simply be removed, instead the text should explain the conflict as it existed and how it came to be resolved. Roger (talk) 11:12, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

SA Armoured Corps

I posted this to the SA Army talk page - your views? Technically the SA Armoured Corps is now the SA Army Armour Formation. Should we create a new page for the Formation or modify the SAAC page? Gbawden (talk) 08:06, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

If you've seen the recently released draft Defence Review you'd notice that they acknowlege that the "formation" structure dreamt up by the management consultants was a huge mistake (some would put it more strongly) and will be returning to "proper" functional corps structures (and divisions, brigades, etc) asap. I would prefer keeping the changes in the eisting articles - I think we could eventually go to a "timeline" of changes with the last decade and a half being just brief deviation from "normal" military structures. IMHO Whoever thought up the idea of having corporate consultants designing military structures should be shot for gross stupidity and uselessness. Roger (talk) 14:22, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

You are incredibly well read. Didn't realise they had published a draft yet. Thanks for the info Gbawden (talk) 06:26, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Velvet Sky

Righty, took a look as you requested. The Route Expansion section isn't entirely past tense, and a brief mention of the airline's closure could maybe be mentioned in the lead section -- but other than those minor nitpicks, it looks just fine to me. Nice job! Ron2K (talk) 20:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I've done the tweaks you suggested. Roger (talk) 12:14, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

SAAF Border War

Any assistance in filling in the gaps in this table would be most appreciated! Farawayman (talk) 17:18, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll get stuck into my bookshelf in the coming days. I have a handful of relevant books by the likes of Steenkamp, Heitmann, etc. I also find the members of the forum at to be very good at locating hard to find information. Roger (talk) 17:30, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Disability in literature

I'd love to collaborate on those articles. I have no problem with other editors coming in and adding, shuffling around stuff, even removing if it helps the article. I was surprised at how many sources came up on google books search when I looked for disability in children's literature. It's not difficult to find discussions of bibliographies and research for that topic, although I don't know how much more difficult it would be to find that level of information on literature for adults (or other arts). OttawaAC (talk) 22:35, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi, where can I find the draft page for the article? OttawaAC (talk) 01:09, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

2nd opinion

Hi. have a look at the piece on my talk page abt 44 para brigade. your thoughts? Gbawden (talk) 16:48, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Was I wrong to split the article? I know i just added a main article direct to the new pages - mainly because i didn't know enough about the subject to add a "lead" like you have but I do feel that the separate units deserve their own page Gbawden (talk) 17:28, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Not wrong to split - the sections were large and detailed enough to stand as independent articles - but when you do such a split you must leave behind some content.
The 1 Para article could do with a fairly comprehensive revision. It's style is too "chatty" with many too short paragraphs. The rampant "name dropping" is overwhelming the other details, it should only name the really significant people - ones who already have or should have articles, such as Jan Breytenbach (which BTW could also do with being expanded and brought up to date). Roger (talk) 17:40, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. The page creator went a bit off at the split - I will post a note to him tomorrow explaining why. Gbawden (talk) 17:44, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


Hi. Regarding your archiving problems:

There are about a dozen sections that the archiving bot won't touch, because they have no dated comments. You can either

  • archive them manually,
  • dig through your page history and find the users and dates and add them,
  • add dummy datestamps (e.g. "00:00, 1 January 2012 (UTC)"), and/or
  • just delete them. (I'd think all the "Hello, Dodger67. You have new messages at" notifications would fall in the last category.)

Also, you've got a bunch of monthly archives you probably want to merge or link to somehow.
—WWoods (talk) 19:32, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm completely unaware of how the monthly archives came to be created - is there an easy way to simply delete them and prevent more of them from being created in future?
I'll take a look at how to deal with the undated stuff - in the morning, I'm off to bed now. Thanks for getting back to me about this matter. Roger (talk) 19:44, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

For the record, here are the monthly archives:

Saab JAS 39 Gripen

Hi Roger, please don't worry about 3R reversions when vandalism is occurring. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 12:15, 14 June 2012 (UTC).

Thanks. Roger (talk) 12:17, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Black Mamba

Hi! Sorry to disturb you.

Thank you for telling me the problems that I made during my editing on the black mamba article last time and I completely understand your meaning.

I've put some suggestions on the talk page of the article where I believe there're several problems existing, but no one gave any response. So, I'd like to have your comments there so that I can know if my suggestions are valid or not. Sorry to add such work for you.

Thank you !

Toxic Walker (talk) 00:22, 16 June, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to disturb again...

Hi! Sorry to disturb you again.

I did some edits on several other articles about snakes, including king cobra and venomous snakes where a lot of information was added and some old contents were removed but I'm not sure if my edits are proper. I tried to put my suggestion on the talk page of the article of king cobra but I didn't get any feedback. So, may I have your comments again on these two articles? Apologies for disturbing you so many times.

Thanks a lot!

User:Toxic Walker(talk) (UTC)

I'm not really a snake expert at all - how about discussing it on the WT:WikiProject Amphibians and Reptiles page. That's where the suject specialists hang out. Roger (talk) 13:16, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I've put my concern on that page.Thanks a lot!

User:Toxic Walker(talk) (UTC)

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me, then a full frontal lobotomy

Thanks, Dodger. [8] I must be losing my mind. EEng (talk) 15:41, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

You have new messages

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- htonl (talk) 10:24, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 28

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Thank you for the "Marriott"

Hello Rodger / Dodger ? I just started here and was not able to correct it. In the "edit-area" it always appeared with tt and in the "read-area" it stayed t. You solved it, thank you Randolph Randolph23 (talk) 14:57, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

List of South African military chiefs

Hi. I am proposing a redesign of this page, away from a 2 column layout to a single column, and using tables with full dates. I have a draft for comment - but its in my sandbox and don't know how to share it. Where can I put it so you can comment on it? Gbawden (talk) 12:03, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

I took a look at User:Gbawden/sandbox, it looks good. There are only a few changes I'd recommend:
Change order of the sections and invert the lists within the sections to proper chronological order - earliest to present.
Split the Pre-1994 lists into separate lists for UDF and SADF -I'll look up the exact date when I get home.
Never use American date format for South African subjects - Use Day/Month/Year not Month/Day/Year - see WP:ENGVAR.
If you'd like help with anything just let me know. Roger (talk) 13:55, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks - I didn't think you could see my sandbox. I know I had to change the dates - will do that when I get stuck in and do the whole bang shoot. On the "Change order of the sections" - do you mean UDF before SADF before SANDF? with the branches alphabetically?
The rationale behind present to earliest is that anyone going to the page would see the current chief first. Thanks. Gbawden (talk) 14:05, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
I've done a bit of digging on this question - looked at many such lists. All of them (so far) go from earliest to latest. You can (and probably should) mention the current person in the introduction paragraph, before the list itself.
Say something like "The Chief of the SANDF was created when the various statutory and non-statutory rmed forces in South Africa merged on 27 April 1994 (or whenever). The current officebearer is General Whatshisname. (Then comes the list itself.)
I've posted a question about this issue at WT:Manual of Style/Lists#Chronological lists, take a look at the MOS too, it contains a lot of good guidelines. Roger (talk) 07:15, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Ok, have a look now. Its about ready. I have split the CSANDF/CSADF/CUDF up as you will see but I have kept the CARMY lists in one list, without differentiation - IMO it makes reading simpler. Gbawden (talk) 09:06, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
That looks great! I see a few one-day gaps - October for example has 31 days but some people's service is listed as ending on 30 October and the next guy starting on 1 November - that leaves 31 October vacant. It would be great if you could recheck those dates (preferably in more than one source). Roger (talk) 09:22, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks - it has now gone live. The one day gaps I will try fix - the full date source was the SA museum of military history so will look for other pages. Now onto my next project :) Gbawden (talk) 10:33, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Well done! BTW have you seen my latest sandbox effort - User:Dodger67/Sandbox/South Africa's Imperial Gift? Roger (talk) 10:57, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks Roger. Nice work on the Imperial Gift! Will be a great addition to the history of the SAAF. Graham Gbawden (talk) 11:54, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Imperial Gift

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:20, 4 July 2012 (UTC) 08:03, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

QuietCast Brake Pads

Hi Dodger, I was trying to take a neutral point of view on my article. I was wondering what specific things I could take to make it ok. Bobby1379 (talk) 15:09, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

article for creation: Theater for a New audience and The Rehearsal Club

Hey Roger, I've been helping some friends with 2 new pages -- Theater for a New Audience and The Rehearsal Club -- both were initially rejected. Would you mind checking them out when you can?


THANKS LorrSG (talk) 00:45, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Both those drafts have problems of content - I know almost nothing about the theatrical "environment" in the US. I can help with format and layout issues but addressing the content problems in these drafts is not within my skills set. Roger (talk) 09:29, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

A cheeseburger for you!

Cheeseburger.png Diligence in multiple areas of Wikipedia. CTS talk 12:11, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Roger (talk) 12:14, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Lyrics in Zulu

Thanks so much, Roger, for your quick and helpful input on my Language Ref Desk query. South Africa must be an extraordinary place to live, and I've long found its music especially stirring - possibly because the people seem to care so much. I recently rediscovered this song on the Web after first hearing it a decade ago, performed by my younger daughter's elementary school girls' vocal group. I hope to sing it myself sometime soon, and perhaps incorporated it into some "world music" repertoire for my community. -- Cheers, Deborahjay (talk) 20:36, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Independence for South Sudan should have happened without the genocide of about 1.5 million people

your thoughts? AdamDavid (talk) 14:26, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

We are not concerned about what should or shouldn't have happened, only what did happen. Wikipedia is about the facts alone, moralising and/or speculations is innapropriate. BTW why are you asking me? Roger (talk) 14:33, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
It looks like you contribute to articles about the region, so you might know something about it. I'm wondering if, in your view, the genocide of animists and christians in south sudan is a fact or a speculation. AdamDavid (talk) 14:53, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Take a look at Second Sudanese Civil War, the sources cited there say "almost 2 million" civilian casualties, but the article doesn't specify that they were all Christians and Animists - it's simply inconceivable that no Muslim civilians were killed. Roger (talk) 15:34, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Of course there were Muslim casualties - Isn't the Darfur genocide mostly Muslim victims? AdamDavid (talk) 15:54, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Would calling the Second Sudanese Civil War 'blood for oil' be inaccurate? AdamDavid (talk) 15:56, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Opinion please?

Hi. I need your opinion on 2 things if you don't mind. 1) I am contemplating removing the list of Chiefs of the Navy from the SA Navy page - rather adding a see also. I have looked at other navies pages and no-one else seems to do it. Its always been on the page - would appreciate a 2nd opinion before I remove it 2) Please have a look at my sandbox. I am contemplating adding images to the List of South African military chiefs page. Is this too much? The Americans do it - thought it might look nice. But not sure how it would look with white spaces for people we don't have images for Your thoughts would be appreciated. Graham Gbawden (talk) 11:26, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

1. Do we have enough material on the Chiefs of the Navy to justify a separate article? Conversely is the main article getting too long (~40KB of text is the usual maximum)?
2. I think the images are fine - unless the majority don't have images, a few gaps in the line-up is acceptable but if we had pics for only a few it might look a bit "off".
BTW I see User:Impi is active again - he is seriously expert at SA military subjects, you could ask his opinion too. Roger (talk) 11:44, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks.. I was planning on just referring CNavy to the List of South African military chiefs Gbawden (talk) 11:57, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes merging them with the rest of the generals makes sense. Roger (talk) 12:04, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
On the article getting too long, one of the assessors didn't seem to like the re-directs so I tried to bring some data onto the page. I think I'm going to park it as is for now - think its looking good and a bit more comprehensive. Gbawden (talk) 12:08, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Cassinga POV

Hello. You removed the category "Massacres in Angola". Kindly do not do this again without a talk page discussion, as your very removal of the category is a sensitive POV issue. Regardless of what view you or I happen to take on this event, about half the world calls this a "massacre", and there are plenty of references to back that up. I would hope that someone as experienced as yourself would recognise that we have a duty to present both points of view here. Socrates2008 (Talk) 11:39, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

OK Roger (talk) 11:45, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Ye Shiwen

Why has the controversy regarding the Chinese swimmer at the Olympics been removed? The way she was treated should be a public record. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:15, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

The consensus for removal was that the unsubstatiated accusations of drug use could be interpeted as slander, thus violating the WP:BLP rules. Please see Talk:Controversies at the 2012 Summer Olympics#Ye Shiwen and discuss the matter there rather than here on my talkpage - I'm only one of the participants in the matter. Roger (talk) 13:32, 1 August 2012 (UTC)


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Hello, Dodger67. You have new messages at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Amateur radio.
Message added 22:52, 3 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I don't want to spam you, but I think this is important, and would like to know your opinion. WingtipvorteX PTT 22:52, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Noted, Thanks. Roger (talk) 06:28, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Monuments in South Africa

Dear WikiProject South Africa Wikipedians

This is an urgent call from Wikimedia South Africa. We are currently working hard on the South African side of the exciting international photographic competition, Wiki Loves Monuments [9]. We have been planning to make this national competition really take off, but to do so, we need your help! The competition starts on the 1st September, and we need your help now! If you are interested in being part of or can help the Wiki Loves Monuments national organising team, then please join here []. If you have limited time, but want to help out at an upload marathon at a heritage site near you, please then contact either Lourie [] or Isla []. We look forward to hearing from you!"

Kind regards, Lourie

Sent by Lucia Bot in 13:58, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
I just wanted to show my appreciation in the way you swiftly closed down the medal ranking debate at Talk:2012 Summer Olympics medal table before it turned into full scale bloodshed. I hope and pray that the discussion doesn't get revisited come Sochi 2014 and Rio 2016. Wesley Mouse 14:51, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Athletics at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's 4 × 400 metres relay

Well, I got it from the official website at I think they just wanted to say that South Africa is allowed to enter in "the extra ninth lane" (with the draw following) instead of "in lane 9". --Pelotastalk|contribs 09:39, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll edit the *Note to match. Roger (talk) 10:12, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

White people

I explained my edit: "article is not about skin color, but 'white' as a race". This is no vandalism. FonsScientiae (talk) 14:31, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

SAAF History

Comments on splitting / removing History section from the SAAF page would be appreciated. Discussion here. Farawayman (talk) 08:25, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Getting Wikimedians to the Olympic Games

Hi. I am part of an effort to get Wikimedians access to the 2016 Summer Olympics as accredited reporters and photographers. Part of this effort includes covering the 2012 Summer Paralympics. Two Wikimedians have credentials to attend these games as reporters through Wikimedia Australia. As English Wikipedia does not allow original reporting, this is largely through Wikinews with a project page found at Wikinews:Paralympic Games. If you are interested in helping to get Wikimedians to the next Summer Olympics,I'd encourage you to assist with Wikinews efforts, and also to work on all language 2012 Summer Paralympic Wikipedia articles before, during and after the Games to demonstrate a track record of success. Thank you. --LauraHale (talk) 05:23, 17 August 2012 (UTC)


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Hello, Dodger67. You have new messages at Stefan2's talk page.
Message added 08:57, 21 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Stefan2 (talk) 08:57, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


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Hello, Dodger67. You have new messages at Gbawden's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Gbawden (talk) 09:44, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

SA Navy badge

Hi. the File:SA Navy Badge.png is on WP already and tagged for deletion. I don't know how to correctly use the Non-free use rationale logo template. Would you mind adding this to the image and updating it? then we can see if it gets deleted. Gbawden (talk) 12:48, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Refer 30px - if the licensing text I have just added is not acceptable, then 99% of all British and Australian military logos need to be deleted too! Farawayman (talk) 13:05, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Lets see what the zealous admin says about that Gbawden (talk) 13:08, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Repeat for use on SANDF article - it must be done for every page that uses the image. Roger (talk) 13:10, 22 August 2012 (UTC)


Hi Dodger67: Your recent edits to the FEI and Equestrianism article reminded me that WikiProject Equine (WPEQ) has a long-needed task to create an article on paralympic equestrian events, so I just created Para-equestrian. It's a stub, and a very stubby stub, but it's a better than nothing and does at least have refs and all the proper templates and twiddly bits that we at WPEQ like to add. If you'd like to help expand it, you are most welcome to do so. The links to the FEI site provided have a good overview, and some interesting trivia, particularly the dressage page. Montanabw(talk) 22:49, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

That's excellent! I'll notify WikiProject Paralympics about it. It also solves the "what links where" problem we've been struggling with. Roger (talk) 06:22, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I wish I'd had more time to do something other than a little stub, but at least we have something now. All help welcome, I can provide additional help on the horsey side of things. Montanabw(talk) 18:32, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Jordan at 2012 Summer Paralympics reply

The source comes from the source where all the athletes have their numbers here. Faroe Islands (and Macao) don't seem to have their pages up if you go directly with the link, but apparently if you go to their overview pages then to their athlete pages you'll find Faroe Islands with 1 athlete and Macao with 2. JoshMartini007 (talk) 13:18, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for solving it! I've looked at it the way you described and it works. The problem is only with the link from the main "Athletes" page but the country pages as such are correct. I posted a message about the problem on the website's "Contact Us". Roger (talk) 14:06, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Export hell seidel steiner.png I wanted to say thank you properly - you backed Stephen_Hawking to the hilt for months now and it's finally got though the process - very much a team effort. (Also I've posted at the Paralympics thread - I'm back...) Fayedizard (talk) 14:43, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Paralympic Games

You reverted a "citation needed" tag I place in the article Paralympic Games, stating " the size and extent of the Paralympic Games is detailed later in the article". Where exactly? I couldn't find any reference to that claim, made in the lead, further down in the article. I started a discussion at the talk page of the article. Please join the discussion before readding the controversial and unsupported claim again. Fram (talk) 08:28, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

I refer you to two topics on which you have your say

Type of Disability and Disability Class and Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Paralympics. --Kasper2006 (talk) 07:16, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Military history coordinator election

The Military history WikiProject has started its 2012 project coordinator election process, where we will select a team of coordinators to organize the project over the coming year. If you would like to be considered as a candidate, please submit your nomination by 14 September. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact one of the current coordinators on their talk page. This message was delivered here because you are a member of the Military history WikiProject. – Military history coordinators (about the projectwhat coordinators do) 08:56, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

2012 Summer Paralympics medal table

Hi there, just to make it clear I don't have an Australian bias - they were simply the highest ranking athletes that had images available with the exception of Daniel Dias who I chose not to include as he was a featured athlete on the medal table for the 2008 Games. But the inclusion of the images themselves isn't a big deal, and I'll leave them off. Hopefully other images may become available over time. Miyagawa (talk) 15:12, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Apologies, I thought it was the same Aussie clique that created the heavily biased Classification series of articles. Roger (talk) 15:27, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
No worries. Miyagawa (talk) 16:04, 10 September 2012 (UTC)