User talk:ElKevbo

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The Signpost: 16 January 2018[edit]

Cameron University[edit]

Hi Kevin, As I was trying to figure out how to navigate this "talk" feature, I received the email that you have initiated a new discussion at Talk:Cameron University. I am new to the editing aspects of Wikipedia, so I thank you for making me aware of this feature. Even with the email, I cannot ascertain how to access the Talk:CameronUniversity section. Clearly, I have a lot to learn. Any guidance you can provide would be much appreciated.

I would like to respond to your three points: 1. The section is entirely unsourced. - I added Cameron University as a source since the university developed and initiated this campaign. Please clarify what is lacking in that source.

2. The information simply isn't very interesting. - That is a subjective statement. I'm sure that are MILLIONS of sections on Wikipedia that you, I, and countless others find uninteresting. Yet if they are relevant to the topic page, they most likely are of interest to others.

3. It's an incredibly bad idea for someone with a clear conflict of interest to not only edit this article but moreover to revert others' edits without even the courtesy of an edit summary or discussion in Talk. - I'm not sure how it is a conflict of interest for someone who is affiliated with Cameron University to review edits to the page to insure accuracy and relevant content. I do think your point about revert edits without an explanation is valid. Again, thank you for making me aware of the Talk feature!

Please be aware that we are currently in the process of revising the entire Cameron University page. As with many Wikipedia pages, most of the content was posted years ago (the Centennial Campaign section is a prime example)and is in dire need of updating. Can you please provide insight on what is considered proper sourcing so that as we go forward, we make sure we meet those parameters?

Thank you for any information you can provide!

Janet E.D. Cameron (talk) 15:46, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

@E.D. Cameron: Thanks for your response! I'll reply to each of your three points below:
1. We need a specific source, an artifact (website, printed publication, video, etc.) that meets our standards for reliability.
2. To gauge what is normally included in Wikipedia articles about universities, it may be helpful to review our advice for college and university articles. It may also be helpful to look at the very best college and university articles to get an idea of what some editors believe is ideal for these kinds of articles. In general, I recommend (a) keeping in mind that this is an encyclopedia for a general audience and (b) maintaining the long view on article content i.e., is this critical information of lasting importance?
3. I strongly recommend recommend you review our policies regarding conflicts of interest. This is an encyclopedia and it's highly inappropriate for people to editing it as if it's just an extension of their employer's website. I recommend that you not make significant edits to articles about your employer but instead that you make requests and recommendations in the article's Talk page so other editors who don't have a conflict of interest can evaluate the material and determine whether it's appropriate to include.
We would very much appreciate you making minor, uncontroversial edits to the article to help bring it up to date! But please don't make major edits to the article; run those by other editors in Talk and let them make the actual edits. ElKevbo (talk) 16:32, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
I've copied my reply to the university's Talk page; let's keep the discussion there so other editors are more easily able to find it and participate if they wish. Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 20:28, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[edit]

Hi! I'm trying to dig up the discussion about the reliability of Do you know where that is? - Bilby (talk) 05:27, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

I don't know of any such discussion. I do know that there is no apparent evidence that the source meets our standards for reliability. ElKevbo (talk) 11:04, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
On what grounds? I don't have a problem with removing unreliable sources, although I'd rather take a more careful approach. That said, I don't know what the problem with this source is, so I don't know how to address the issues. - Bilby (talk) 11:16, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
I don't know how else to say it: The source doesn't appear to meet our standards for reliability. Although it does have a brief "About" page, it doesn't seem to provide evidence that the the site has a "reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." The specific quote in the article that you've been editing, for example, seems to have been copied from another website altogether. At its best, the articles on the site appear to just be repeating information from other sites (like the previously discussed quote); at its worst, the articles are obvious spam for essay writing services. ElKevbo (talk) 11:37, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
The difficulty is that you're removing the reference and leaving the content that it was sourcing intact but without a ref. This creates two problems - one is that we end up with unsourced content (especially notable with a quotations that don't have anything to show where they came from), and the other is that using content from their site without acknowledgement ends up being akin to plagiarism. If the issue is that they are repackaging articles from elsewhere, then we have the option of tracking down the original. But if the issue is that you believe that we just can't use the site because it isn't reliable, then we need to remove the content as well. - Bilby (talk) 11:49, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
The majority of the content is innocuous e.g., data that was originally copied from IPEDS, trivial information that essentially says "this college exists." The other content probably does require a source but (a) it should be easy to find (since the educationnews articles are pretty good about citing their original source(s)) and (b) is also relatively innocuous. So editors who are interested in continuing this cleanup should have an easy time doing so! ElKevbo (talk) 13:56, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

"Revert" in edit summaries[edit]

Appreciate your message. It's quite reasonable. Mason.Jones (talk) 19:35, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Recent Edit[edit]

When referring to a singular, proper entity, common nouns will typically be capitilized (so "a college," "the College"). See multiple, established sources, such as: Mercury42 (talk) 17:56, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

@Mercury42: We don't do that here. ElKevbo (talk) 18:17, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
Well, who's "We"? My understanding is that Wikipedia is decentralized and that editors work independenty. In any event, it would seem important to obey the forms of proper style and usage irrespective of precedent. Personally, I'd like to see an example from an independent, established source (e.g., Harper's, the New York Times) that confirms the lower case usage of "the college" in the context we are discussing. Mercury42 (talk) 18:37, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
Please read the page I linked above; it's part of Wikipedia's Manual of Style, a guideline that has widespread consensus among editors. If you think it's incorrect, you're welcome to advocate for a change! ElKevbo (talk) 18:47, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 5 February 2018[edit]

Source for Bruce E. Grewcock[edit]

Here is a source that Bruce E. Grewcock went to Mines: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jakevossen5 (talkcontribs) 00:18, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Feel free to edit the article and add that information! ElKevbo (talk) 22:18, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Edit on Lake Erie College[edit]

Hi El Kevbo, Dawn Powell is Lake Erie College's most notable alumna, which was stated in the first sentence of the section. That is why her bio is on the Lake Erie College page. The bio is focused on her connections to the institution, so it is relevant to the page.

It is not speculation that Federer will over take Nadal as No. 1 on the ATP rankings. It is a numerical fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:16, 16 February 2018 (UTC)


Thank you for letting me know about the red wikilinks. Also, please take a look at Rizwan Ahmed (bureaucrat) where there are two tags regarding OR and unrealiable references. There hasn't been a concensus regarding the tag being placed on the top of the page to generalise the article or at indiviual sentences to point out faults, as most of the matter mentioned is already backed by references containing leading newspapers. Thank you (Regent007 (talk) 13:43, 19 February 2018 (UTC))

The Signpost: 20 February 2018[edit]

Article naming[edit]

Hey ElKevbo, what do you think of this. I almost reverted it and was going to leave the person requesting the move to start a RM simply because we don't go how the universities want to be stylized... thoughts? Corky 23:04, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

I don't know what the MOS says about this. I seem to recall that many institutions with hyphens in their names have article titles with dashes (e.g., Columbia-Greene Community College is at Columbia–Greene Community College, Chandler-Gilbert Community College is at Chandler–Gilbert Community College) but I don't know if those titles exist because there's widespread consensus on the issue or because a handful of editors were persistent or consistent in making the changes at some point in the past. Maybe some of the editors who hang out at WT:MOS can point you in the right direction...? ElKevbo (talk) 02:36, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, I will ask someone and let you know! Corky 17:36, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
@Corkythehornetfan: Please do! I left a message on a similar topic (are ampersands changed to "and" in all or most cases?) at WT:MOSTITLE a few days ago and I never got a reply so I'll be curious to see if you get one. ElKevbo (talk) 04:08, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
They said we use endash, so I've moved the article back. Also, you've gotten responses at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Titles#Ampersands discouraged? now! 😁 Corky 02:47, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for following up on this. For what it's worth, I don't care very much about these issues as long as (a) we're consistent and (b) there are redirects to ensure that readers get to the article they're looking for when they search for topics. ElKevbo (talk) 04:08, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Oh, I completely agree on consistency! That's the main reason I brought it up. The user I asked said they had a consensus on the endash, but couldn't remember how long ago that was. I just don't like the reason of "that's the way the university wants stylized"... as if we should go do everything the universities want?! Corky 04:48, 1 March 2018 (UTC)


And now in your opinion is it accurate? Where is the sub-title? and the edition? In a citation the place of publication must come before the publisher (cfr. ISO 690:2010). -- (talk) 10:15, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

There is no universal standard for bibliographies or citations. If there were then we wouldn't have the many style guides that we do have e.g., APA, Chicago, MLA. ElKevbo (talk) 14:21, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
An international standard exists (ISO 690), but we don't follow it. So I give you reason that it is better not to put "in this order". -- (talk) 19:31, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
It doesn't matter if there is a standard if few (no?) people use it. Our articles must be descriptive, not prescriptive. ElKevbo (talk) 21:05, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 7[edit]

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Emory University[edit]

I have invited the anon editor to discuss differences on the article's talk page. Hopefully the parties can resolve their differences. Cheers, Majoreditor (talk) 22:36, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Catawba College Classification[edit]

Hi Kevin! Thank you for reviewing my edits so promptly. I am hoping to correct the classification of Catawba College (described incorrectly as a liberal arts college) and would greatly appreciate it if this fact can be substantiated on the Catawba website or US World & News website and edited appropriately however you see fit ( or Catawba is not listed or classified under liberal arts, but rather under Regional Colleges South.

Your assistance and consideration is greatly appreciated! Maegen at Catawba College (talk) 20:59, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

@Maegen at Catawba College: Thanks for your note!
I don't think that using USN&WR as a source for classification is a very good idea; they're not objective (not that anyone is ever completely objective!). I think a better source is something like the institution's Carnegie classification. However, the issue there is that some of the language is not familiar to many readers e.g., "Baccalaureate." So that doesn't get us very far for this college.
Do I understand correctly that your primary objection is to describing the institution as a "liberal arts college?" If so, I'm fine with changing that language. My objection to your edit was primarily to all of the other changes you made e.g., describing the institution as "in the South" is not at all meaningful for our international readership. What language would you suggest? Would it be sufficient to simply remove the "liberal arts" part and leave it as "college" in the lead sentence with more specific details left for the body of the article? ElKevbo (talk) 22:01, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Thank you - that's it exactly! I would suggest changing it to read "private regional college" or just "private college" as you suggest. That is accurate and would make it a correct description. Thank you very much!
Maegen at Catawba College (talk) 18:45, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Done. I left in the "coeducational" bit. I don't think it's necessary but it's accurate, innocuous, and common in articles. ElKevbo (talk) 00:19, 22 March 2018 (UTC)


I have posted a notice re HC at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities. – S. Rich (talk) 17:14, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Good idea. Thanks for letting me know. ElKevbo (talk) 21:52, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Social Work Degree Guide[edit]

You recently removed a citation to the Social Work Degree Guide from the article on the Wayne State School of Social Work. You did so on the ground that the site was "thinly disguised click bait aimed entirely at advertisers." I have reviewed the Social Work Degree Guide and can't find any evidence to back up your assertion. Indeed, the site does not even appear to contain advertising. Can you provide evidence to support your claim that the site is "click bait aimed entirely at advertisers"? Cbl62 (talk) 14:21, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

First, it's up to you - the editor who wants to add or retain a source - to establish that it's reliable. Second, the webpage has no information whatsoever about who controls it or their expertise. A legitimate site would probably include information about the authors and their experience and expertise. Third, the site is identical to dozens of others that exist exclusively to sale leads to colleges who want to advertise on the site; that's how institutions are commonly included in the websites' search engines or placed more highly on their search results. ElKevbo (talk) 18:34, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
Uh, no. You are the one who made the startling and serious assertion that the site was "thinly disguised click bait aimed entirely at advertisers".If you have no evidence to support your charge, have the honesty to admit you erred and withdraw the allegation. Cbl62 (talk) 05:56, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
My review of the Social Work Degree Guide reveals no advertising or paid content whatsoever. Moreover, the site's content has been recognized as trustworthy and notable by mainstream news sources and academic institutions. See San Diego Union-Tribune,, Waco Tribune-Herald, The Independent, The Huffington Post, Catholic University (also here), University of North Carolina, University of Texas, Syracuse University,University of Louisville, University of Georgia, etc. Social Work Degree Guide was also cited as a source in this doctoral dissertation on the topic of quality is social work education. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that the site is not reliable or that it is "clickbait" or that rankings are bought and paid for? Cbl62 (talk) 06:42, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
I've copied this discussion and posted my reply to Talk:Wayne State University School of Social Work so other interested editors can more easily see it and reply. ElKevbo (talk) 14:21, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Signpost issue 4 – 29 March 2018[edit]

Atlanta's John Marshall Law School[edit]

Hey, thanks for this edit to Atlanta's John Marshall Law School, undeniably a good call. I'm friends with AOM831 IRL and they asked me to look into it. I explained some about WP:RS and they read the policy, they understood and they're willing to put more work into it, but I thought we should talk to you first. They showed me two sources that I thought were ok (albeit not awesome) so I wanted to see what you'd think of re-adding some of the info that can be sourced to them: [1] and [2]. You think these might be acceptable? Should we start a section on the talk page? I've been editing only rarely lately so pardon my rustiness. Anyway thanks for taking the time to look into it. Peace, delldot ∇. 00:56, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

At first glance that first source looks sketchy but it might be ok. The second source looks a bit better if only because a quick glance seems to indicate that the author is an experienced and published journalist. The information doesn't appear to be of the magnitude to be included in the lede of the article but it may warrant inclusion in the body especially if other sources can be found that most editors can agree are reliable. Starting a discussion in Talk is definitely what I'd recommend. ElKevbo (talk) 01:01, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Ok will do, thanks much! delldot ∇. 01:14, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 13[edit]

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It's not nonsense.[edit]

She's actually oppressing an entire subset of the population and I don't get how so many people love her for it.

The Signpost: 26 April 2018[edit]

Nomination of List of YouTubers for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of YouTubers is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of YouTubers (3rd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. wumbolo ^^^ 20:18, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 May 2018[edit]

The Signpost: 24 May 2018[edit]


Thanks for your comments, I dont work for Comunicar, Im a student working on a master research project about media education and I read Comunicar very frequently, so Im very into their papers, but only as a researcher. What Im actually doing with Wikipedia is to get to know it better, because I believe in the project, so I can teach it to my future students, thats why Im making this exercises with the topic I know. I feel very sorry if Im incurring into conflict of interest, how can I solve it, so I dont lose the edits I have done? or are they already lost? Thanks for your help!Anyvalle (talk) 09:12, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Ideally, we'd rarely cite individual journal articles in an encyclopedia. To ensure that we're writing about information that is really notable and important, we should rely more on documents that responsibly evaluate and synthesize published research e.g., metastudies, high quality literature reviews, peer-reviewed books that explicitly synthesize material. That also helps us avoid individual studies that turn out to be incorrect or problematic in some way. ElKevbo (talk) 14:17, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Tier 1[edit]

I added a reference in the blurb and hyperlinked the Wikipedia page (Tier 1), which you can find the source as well. It is not exclusive to UC schools, and Merced is Tier 2 for research. SJSU_Moi (talk) 10:22, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

@SJSU Moi: That link goes to "Research 1" universities, not "Tier 1." I'm not familiar with the "Tier 1" terminology which is why I am asking for references for that specific terminology. ElKevbo (talk) 10:42, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
I went ahead and removed the term from the articles to which you added it; I can't find any good references supporting the term and I've never heard of it. Did you perhaps get it confused with "R1" which is a commonly used term (as an abbreviation of "Research 1")? In any case, you also added the term to infoboxes of institutions as an affiliation where the term clearly doesn't belong even if it is commonly used by others; it's a taxonomic classification, not an organization with which institutions are affiliated. ElKevbo (talk) 20:28, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Bakke Graduate University update to 2018[edit]

Kevin: Thank you for your help with editing the Bakke Graduate University page. However somehow you first reverted the page to a 2012 version then started editing that. I would appreciate your help to edit the 2018 version so we can get it right. I've reverted it back to the 2018 version and would welcome your help in that version. Thank you Bbanz (talk) 14:44, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I reverted all of your edits and then noticed some additional edits that I think should be made. You've reverted my reversions which is an edit war; I strongly recommend you undo your reversions so we can discuss the issues.
I further recommend you review our policy regarding external links, our policy regarding reliable sources, and our recommendations for college and university articles. Your edits introduced many external links into the body of the article which we don't allow. Your edits, especially your recent reversions to my edits, introduced material that isn't supported by any references. And many of your edits add material that isn't appropriate for an encyclopedia article e.g., details about the institution's mission statement isn't necessary in the lede, details about the specific degree programs shouldn't be included in the article at all, original research about the topics of courses at the institution shouldn't be included in the article.
Additionally, if you have a relationship with the university then you must review our policies regarding conflicts of interest. In general, if you have relationship with a subject then you shouldn't make substantive edits to the article but should instead seek advice and help in the article's Talk page. ElKevbo (talk) 16:01, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
I'm psychic so let me guess the mission statement... Wait, wait, it's coming to me... "To provide world-class educational opportunities to the community"? "To synergize leveraging"? "To demonstrate integrative leadership"? Am I close? EEng 16:07, 11 June 2018 (UTC) P.S. It's hard to imagine how anyone in the US could name a new educational institution "Bakke" with a straight face.

Kevin: It is not my intent to be in an edit war and I would be glad to discuss this with you on any format you'd choose. The reason I had to undo your edits was because you undid the edits back to a 2012 version so I needed to get it to a current version and work from there. From that version I would welcome your revisions and edits. I will work on the specific suggestions you have made above and then welcome your input to further hone it to Wikipedia standards after I work with your recommendations above.

EEng: I'm not sure about the 'psychic' statement. The mission statement BGU has had since 2004 was in the 2018 version of the article but it does not include the phrases you've mentioned. There is a totally unrelated "Bakke" that instigated a reverse discrimination suit in 1978. The name Bakke is actually a common Norwegian name and in places outside of the US, most see it positively from the 100 million people in developing countries who obtained electricity as a result of Dennis Bakke's company. There is a movie called "The Power Trip" about the Bakke work in Georgia (former Soviet Union). Bbanz (talk) 16:58, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

The mission statement currently in the article has synergy and leadership and integrating, so I think I did pretty well, actually. I'm obviously aware of Bakke v. Regents or why else would I have said what I said? EEng 17:33, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

ElKevbo (talk): Thank you for your help. I have removed all external links, the institution's mission statement, details about the specific degree programs, and the topics in the courses. I've read the links you provided. I understand more appropriate references are needed but am finding other University sites I am viewing are not doing much better. What is a good University site I can use as an example? What other changes would you suggest? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bbanz (talkcontribs) 20:32, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

This webpage lists all of the Wikipedia articles that are "Feature-class" (the very best articles in Wikipedia) and associated with the college and university Wikiproject. That's an excellent place to start if you want to see really good college and university articles. ElKevbo (talk) 20:54, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

ElKevbo (talk) Thank you. These are excellent links. I'll work on continuing to improve the site toward these standards and welcome your edits and critiques. I appreciate your patience. I have a ways to go to learn how to do this. Bbanz (talk) Thank you for providing a list of good examples. I can help with this article too 21:30, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Liberty University Edits Removed[edit]

Hello, ElKevbo! I am User:ZfJames and I wanted to discuss your recent reversion of my edits to the Liberty University page. You stated that my edits were contentious but did not actually provide a reason within your edit summary for removing them beyond that. Wikipedia, as I am sure that you are aware, is not censored so your objection to the material content is not a sufficient reason to remove my edits. I would love to discuss this question (either here, on the Liberty University talk page, or on my talk page) civilly since I think you've probably got some valid points as well. Thank you for your efforts to improve Wikipedia! zfJames Please add {{ping|ZfJames}} to your reply (talk page, contribs) 15:04, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Please (a) review WP:BRD as it's not acceptable to revert another editor's revert and (b) open a discussion in the article's Talk page. Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 15:58, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

New Page Patrol?[edit]

Hi ElKevbo,

I've recently been looking for editors to invite to join New Page Patrol, and from your editing history, I think you would be a good candidate. Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time but it requires a good understanding of Wikipedia policies and guidelines; we could use some additional help from an experienced user like yourself.

Would you please consider becoming a New Page Reviewer? (After gaining the flag, patrolling is not mandatory. One can do it at their convenience). But kindly read the tutorial before making your decision. If you choose to apply, you can drop an application over at WP:PERM/NPR.

Cheers, and hope to see you around, — Insertcleverphrasehere (or here) 21:08, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

@Insertcleverphrasehere: I appreciate the invitation but I don't think I'd be very helpful because I am very tightly focused on my field of expertise, U.S. higher education. Thanks anyway! ElKevbo (talk) 01:22, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
That's fair enough. If it's not for you that is totally fine. Cheers, — Insertcleverphrasehere (or here) 03:14, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

what is the problem with Capella university page?[edit]

All the changes in the article are explained, and with the proofs.

If you want to polish the English in the page then fine, bat do not erase all the article changes!

Joe silver 1 (talk) 23:42, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

@Joe silver 1: I have replied at Talk:Capella University and it would be best if we could centralize the discussion in one place. ElKevbo (talk) 01:21, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Challenged content[edit]

Hi, ElKevbo - to begin, this edit restores challenged material, a challenge that is supported by WP:EXCEPTIONAL. Please self-revert until consensus has been reached. You added it back and started a TP discussion while being able to cite only one RS to support the claim of two flagships, so again, please self-revert. Atsme📞📧 14:31, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

It's not an exceptional claim, just one with which you disagree. ElKevbo (talk) 14:45, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
No, actually - the exceptional claim of two flagship universities is recent, the single flagship material is long standing as evidenced here. It is noncompliant to restore longstanding material to a stable article with improperly sourced exceptional claims. The IP recently added the two flagships claim without citing multiple independent RS to support such a claim. Atsme📞📧 14:53, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 June 2018[edit]

Edit to Rhodes Scholarship page[edit]

Hi, may I ask why you undid my edit to the Rhodes Scholarship page? I have read through the page and would say only about half of it is about controversies and the page seems quite weighted towars the past controversies. As the wikipedia project is to document the entire sum of human knowledge don't you feel that the Rhodes Scholarship page should be about the Rhodes scholarships and the Cecil Rhodes page should be about Cecil Rhodes? Also plenty of pages only mention controversies in the controversies section. Would you perhaps be willing to compromise and include a line about Rhodes' Anglo-supremicist agenda but make the rest of the information in the introduction and the page up to date? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pug of the day (talkcontribs) 16:29, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

I didn't undo your edit. I just readded one sentence from the older version. ElKevbo (talk) 16:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Delaware State University seal.jpg[edit]


Thanks for uploading File:Delaware State University seal.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Corky 15:28, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

DS Alert[edit]

Commons-emblem-notice.svg This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for edits and pages regarding pseudoscience and fringe science, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

This isn't meant to imply any problems with your edits. I'm simply notifying everyone involved in the discussion at Talk:Liberty University as a routine formality. –dlthewave 00:39, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

University of Northern Virginia[edit]

That was the editor's first edit. However, thanks to a script I use, I see "A registered user, 11 years 3 months old, with 1 edit" - which is pretty odd. I don't see any blocked accounts editing for the last 4 years (another script). Doug Weller talk 12:07, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

Your opinion[edit]

Hey, ElKevbo, I was wondering what your opinion is on this question? I honestly don't think it is worth mentioning (maybe... maybe if she had her own article), but I'm not quite sure what policies to cite. Corky 00:29, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Georgia Highlands College edits[edit]

Can you please review the talk section on Georgia Highlands College? You made one edit there a while back. Recently, I wanted the page to match the depth of content of sister schools, but I'm affiliated with the institution. I wrote content I thought the page could have and posted it to Talk, as suggested by Meters on the talk page, but now need others not affiliated with the institution to edit that content into the main page if appropriate. ProfStv (talk) 16:32, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 July 2018[edit]

University of Miami[edit]

Please revert your edit about the Carnegie Classification. Your edits for other institutions (University of Pennsylvania, Brandeis University) should also be reverted. There is no bias when stating that R1 is the highest academic index given to doctoral universities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcf1291 (talkcontribs) 23:56, August 5, 2018 (UTC)

No. ElKevbo (talk) 03:58, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
The classifications are factual. What you cited from The Chronicle of Higher Education is entirely one person's opinion. I am fine with avoiding the word "rank", but R1 is the highest classification. I copied directly from their website:
Doctoral Universities

Includes institutions that awarded at least 20 research/scholarship doctoral degrees during the update year (this does not include professional practice doctoral-level degrees, such as the JD, MD, PharmD, DPT, etc.). Excludes Special Focus Institutions and Tribal Colleges.

R1: Doctoral Universities – Highest research activity
R2: Doctoral Universities – Higher research activity
R3: Doctoral Universities – Moderate research activity
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcf1291 (talkcontribs) 00:09, August 6, 2018 (UTC)
First, that "person" who holds the opinion is a Professor of Higher Education and the current director of the Carnegie Classification project; it's folly to carelessly dismiss his opinion as worthless.
Second, describing the description as being "highest" outside of anything but a careful and technical explanation of how the taxonomy defines and categorizes "research activity" is POV. This is particularly obvious when you add details about how many other "similar" (as you determine similarity) universities are similarly classified. You're better off either sticking with the classification - which links to the appropriate Wikipedia article that has all of the gory, boring details - or just describing the specific information that the classification used to assign the category so that readers can make their own judgments.
Third, it would be helpful if you signed your posts on Talk pages. You just need to type four tilde characters: (~~~~. Thanks! 04:19, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

My point is that an editorial contains an opinion, so it should not be used as a definitive source. Yes, I understand that the professor is the director of the Carnegie Classification project. His main points are that "R1" does not indicate the highest quality research, and the classifications are not rankings.Bcf1291 (talk) 04:25, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

I invite you both to join Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities#Standard wording for Carnegie classification to have a centralized discussion and get a consensus standardized way to include this on all affected articles. DMacks (talk) 04:45, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! I was planning to bring this up at some point but I'm happy to have the discussion now. ElKevbo (talk) 04:13, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Bryn Mawr[edit]

Dear ElKevbo,

The website Niche's ranking for diversity is solely based on reviews not any actual statistics. I am trying to start to make changes to the website to represent more actual inclusion (eg.- listing notable Bryn Mawr alum of color, trans alum, etc). Please, let me edit as a Bryn Mawr alum who is well ingrained in Bryn Mawr's community. Otherwise, I will have to contact the Wikipedia board if we're going to be going back and forth on this all day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bmcmawrter (talkcontribs) 11:03, August 10, 2018 (UTC)

@Bmcmawrter: If your objection to the information is that it's inaccurate, please clearly state that in your edit summaries or in the article's Talk page. You didn't explain your edit at all and in fact you're engaged in an edit war because you've repeatedly made the same edits. Stop edit warring and open a discussion on the article's Talk page, please. ElKevbo (talk) 15:09, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Advice and Notifications[edit]

Thank you Sir.

I will be grateful if you can give me more advice on making edits.

RespectfullyLOBOSKYJOJO (talk) 20:18, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

@LOBOSKYJOJO: I have two primary objections to much - but not all! - of the information that you've added to a few articles. First, you've relied heavily on either partisan sources or popular press articles. Those aren't necessarily bad sources but in the areas that you've been trying to contribute there are tons of high quality materials written and reviewed by scholars and experts so you should be relying on those materials instead. Second, many of your edits are about potential actions that the current presidential administration may take or would like to take. I strongly advise that you hold off on most of those edits until we see if those desires ever become concrete actions. The executive branch is limited in what it can do especially when (a) so many members of the legislative branch are opposed, including many in the same party as the president, and (b) so many of the actions that are being taken are being struck down by the judicial branch. It's unquestionable that some of their desires will be turned into meaningful, lasting change but there's no reason to document everything in detail until we know which actions will be lasting and which ones will be nullified, overturned, or otherwise make no meaningful impact.
On several occasions you've also strongly presented the views of the executive branch as if their arguments are facts or inevitabilities when often they are neither. Doing so, especially using Wikipedia's voice, is a violation of one of our key tenets.
I recommend you select better sources, be more selective in the information you propose adding to articles, and perhaps discuss your proposed additions in Talk. I also recommend that you make smaller edits instead of adding large sections all at once; that makes it easier for other editors to contest or raise questions about parts of your edits without having to challenge or question everything at once. ElKevbo (talk) 05:04, 14 August 2018 (UTC)


Thank you Sir. That is well noted.LOBOSKYJOJO (talk) 19:28, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Pending changes reviewer granted[edit]

Wikipedia Reviewer.svg

Hello. Your account has been granted the "pending changes reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on pages protected by pending changes. The list of articles awaiting review is located at Special:PendingChanges, while the list of articles that have pending changes protection turned on is located at Special:StablePages.

Being granted reviewer rights neither grants you status nor changes how you can edit articles. If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time.

See also:

Mz7 (talk) 04:25, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 05:30, 19 August 2018 (UTC)


I believe those sources was from these links below. I signed d up my Wikipedia account to record about this too.When I followed the links from his daughter Facebook Page . He was our best Minister of Education ,His Policy was Education for All.

These is how I found the information from his daughter Facebook Page.

His daughter uploaded that when she was talking about Thailand World Longest Bridge (until recently)

Both Images was from this link

She was saying about Thailand World Longest Bridge

and l guessed a lot of people founded it too because someone already wrote down.

      • Form Facebook to Pantip Website to Flickr Photos that seem to be hanging on the wall probably in Duputy Priminister House ,l also think it should be reliable sources.But you are the administrator,we have to believe you .Can you give me the advice ? What ‘s kind of the reliable sources , I have to provide?

Thanks you Elemis2018 (talk) 03:29, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

I recommend reviewing WP:RS. In general, we should be citing high quality, published sources e.g., news articles by established journalists, scholarly articles, books published by reputable publishers. A photo of someone's diploma is a primary source and we try not to use those because they often have not been vetted by experts. ElKevbo (talk) 14:23, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Undone Edits; need help understanding this bizarre rabbit hole[edit]

ElKevbo, help me understand how removing unsubstantiated opinion from an article represents a conflict of interest. Does an editor not have the opportunity to correct information that is misleading, unattributed, unsubstantiated? Why does the original posting stand instead of the attempt to remove inaccurate or defamatory information that is clearly opinion from a particular point of view/interpretation, and not encyclopedic information. Help me, I'm lost. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Csmithsouth (talkcontribs) 04:33, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

@Csmithsouth: First, I strongly encourage you to read the information I posted on your User Talk page. If you work for the institution, especially if you explicitly work for the institution in a public relations capacity, you should not be making controversial edits to the article at all but instead you should be making suggestions and requests on the article's Talk page. This is particularly critical if your proposed edits could be perceived as biased e.g., removing only negative information. Second, the information you removed came from multiple sources, not just one questionable source. It also spanned multiple topics.
Stop editing the article and discuss your objections in Talk. ElKevbo (talk) 11:50, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying. I understand the process and policies better now. i will proceed accordingly.

Here is my lingering question that I would sincerely like answered: why is an alumnus (or several alumni) who made the original edits to the entry not considered to have COI? The entry/edit in question is not substantiated by the refernced attribution, it is a personal opinion and interpretation of events that are otherwise able to be stated factually (as referenced in the article used to document the edit). In short, why did know one cry foul when the original edit was made in the same way? this is the part if the process im unclear on. thanks for any insight you can provide. (talk) 16:52, 24 August 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Csmithsouth (talkcontribs)

I think that alumni do have a (weak) conflict of interest on articles about their alma mater. I don't know how many other editors agree with that viewpoint. I also don't routinely check to see if an editor has made a public declaration of their alumnus status or has an obvious connection to an institution. (It is often much, much easier to notice when an editor works for an institution's public relations unit; the language used is often clearly POV, riddled with "marketing speak," and often copies directly from the institution's website. And it's really obvious when someone removes a lot of material and the only obvious thread connecting all of it is that it's negative.)
If there is specific material that is in the article that is not supported by a reliable source or has been summarized poorly or incorrectly, please bring that up on the article's Talk page. Right now it's difficult for me (and presumably other editors) to see specific details in the large mass of material that you tried to remove; most or all of it seems to be completely fine so we need some help with fine details. ElKevbo (talk) 17:58, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

What's your opinion on...[edit]

... this? Aside from the conlfict of interest that they have... Corky 22:47, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

I've already tried raising the question of whether we should have that parameter in that infobox at all; it's already bloated and way too detailed as it tries to address possible information for every country on the planet. As long as we retain the parameter with no useful guidance on its use we can hardly blame well-meaning editors for trying to use it - as long as it within other editing norms, of course (e.g., no edit wars, build consensus). ElKevbo (talk) 02:08, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! It's too much clutter if you ask me. Limiting to one or two former names is fine but having seven or eight (long names) just makes it a mess. Have you thought about doing a RFC? Corky 02:26, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
No, I don't feel strongly enough about the topic to do anything that looks like actual work. :) It's annoying but pretty far down on my list of priorities. ElKevbo (talk) 02:29, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
Ha, I hear ya! I might look into it, but may not get to it for awhile. Corky 02:32, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Notice of External links noticeboard discussion[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:External links/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Thank you. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:51, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 August 2018[edit]

Education in the US[edit]

Sorry about that. I didn't mean to restore that EL in this edit. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 18:25, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

No worries! :) ElKevbo (talk) 19:08, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Recent edits to Goucher College[edit]

Hi ElKevbo,

Thanks for your recent edits to Goucher College. I see your point about merging the administration/presidents and history sections, though I think it would require trimming both and removing redundant information. For now I have reverted your edit, but I will see to it that the content in the former is seamlessly incorporated into the latter.Wikieditor19920 (talk) 04:15, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Just made the changes described above. Feel free to review again when you have the chance!Wikieditor19920 (talk) 22:20, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
@Wikieditor19920: I don't understand; the presidents are still listed separately outside of the history section which is the only place where most of them are noteworthy. How do readers benefit from having that list of historical figures in a completely different section especially when most of them are not notable on their own? ElKevbo (talk) 02:10, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
A number of other colleges have placed lists of presidents either on separate Wiki pages or at the bottom. You'll find very few, spare Franklin & Marshall, that do otherwise, and I think it's a poor editing decision because it makes the history section too long and unwieldy. Also, it is accurate to include the list under Administration.Wikieditor19920 (talk) 13:20, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
I don't find that a very convincing argument about why you believe that the list should be in a separate section of the article. If the primary argument is that the list is long and unwieldy then make it collapsible and collapsed by default.
In fact, why do we need to include this list at all? How is it helpful for readers to have a list of people with no context or explanation? ElKevbo (talk) 13:36, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
(Incidentally, I'm really not focused just on this college; I have these concerns about how this material is handled in virtually every article. Gotta start somewhere, right? ElKevbo (talk) 13:37, 1 September 2018 (UTC))
Well, the argument I outlined above is in fact my position. I hadn't considered a collapsible list, but I see that as a somewhat complex solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Also, I would note that most other editors, as indicated by what's apparent on other university pages, seem to have come to the same conclusion about the placement of lists. As far as whether a list of presidents should be included at all, I am not the one who inserted it originally, but I am for keeping it because I think that an institution's leadership reveals something important about it, particularly in the case of colleges/universities. And I am not ready to agree with you about notability. I think there are enough WP:RS to establish notability for at least several persons on the list, and I may at a later time create separate pages for them. And on your last point, that's fair and I think we're in agreement there.Wikieditor19920 (talk) 22:37, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
What exactly are readers supposed to learn from that bare listing of names? ElKevbo (talk) 23:35, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
I would imagine that, for any institution, it serves an encyclopedic purpose to provide a list of its leadership. Almost all colleges' pages seem to include such a list or contain an internal link to one. On another note, I appreciate your insertion of a drop-down list onto the page; that actually seems work quite well. Thanks!Wikieditor19920 (talk) 02:40, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
If that's the only answer that any of us can offer then we need to rethink this common practice. If it doesn't help readers then why are we doing it? ElKevbo (talk) 02:51, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

M7bswiki's potential conflict of interest[edit]

Read the post on Jytdog. The user asked me for the exact same information you posted on my talk page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by M7bswiki (talkcontribs) 05:48, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Fair enough. I still maintain that the information isn't appropriate in most (or any) articles or helpful for readers especially if it can't be substantiated by independent sources that don't have a vested interest in promoting the topic e.g., higher education scholars, economists who study business schools. ElKevbo (talk) 05:56, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
That's a fair argument, but I don't agree with you and Jytdog randomly deleting information just because a user with the name M7bswiki has been contributing most of the information. Instead of framing me as a false distributor of information, it would've been better if you two add a citation for verification asking for additional sources on the discussion page or asking users/readers for additional sources. Also, if you still think my contributions are fictitious or distorted for "marketing", the information has been posted up there by various users for quite a few years; most of my contributions were simply adding links to the statements, correcting grammatical errors in the overall page, and contributing to a page created by another unaffiliated user. The point of me making an account named "M7bswiki" was to focus on editing and adding information for these particular schools of interest - not for purposes of promotion or marketing. The "M7" has been a thing since around 2005, and is a very common term used in business school and finance-related forums like WSO or GMATClub. Despite lacking solid independent sources, I wouldn't completely dismiss and delete information about the "M7" because of its strong use and influence in business school culture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Genericusername9631 (talkcontribs) 02:40, September 5, 2018 (UTC)
I removed the information and nominated the article for deletion because they lack reliable, independent sources. ElKevbo (talk) 12:42, 5 September 2018 (UTC)