User talk:Elie plus

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Bold text User:Elie plus User talk:Elie plus Special:Emailuser/Elie plus Special:Contributions/Elie plus Wikipedia:LEB
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siyne ur pozts PLiZ.


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culture of Lebanon
Thank you, proud Kafir, for quality articles on Lebanese culture, history and people, such as Law school of Beirut and Temple of Eshmun, National Museum of Beirut and Elias Abu Shabaki, for gnomish work in categories, assessment and page moves, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

siyne mi pozt: --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:08, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

A year ago, you were the 684th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:01, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

May 2014[edit]

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Orphaned non-free image File:EcoleSuperieuredesAffaires.png[edit]


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Temple of Eshmun[edit]

Thanks, you beat me to it. You might want to see his talk page. Dougweller (talk) 18:24, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

They rock[edit]

Love the music, mate! And I'm already cleaning up their article! WikiEditorial101 (talk) 13:09, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:40, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

"Lebanese people of Maronite descent" to "Lebanese people of Maronite Christian descent"[edit]

I made the renaming because I believe that "Lebanese people of Maronite descent" creates the impression that the Maronites are an ethnic group separated from the Lebanese people like in the case "Lebanese people of Armenian descent". (The Armenians were forced to immigrate to present-day Lebanon after the 1915 Armenian genocide in contrast to the Lebanese people native to the Lebanese territory, ex. Maronites, Shiites, and Sunnites) And to quote your opinion, which I fully support: "There is no Maronite ethnicity and Pierre Zalloua's research on the Phoenician haplogroup disproves this claim as it shows that Lebanese of all denominations are heterogeneous." That is why I believed and still believe that "Lebanese people of Maronite Christian descent" should be used instead to emphasize that the Maronites are Christian religious group within the Lebanese people. Also, I wanted to make categories "Lebanese people of Shiite Muslim descent", "Lebanese people of Sunnite Muslim descent", and so on to make the point that is supported by "Pierre Zalloua's research on the Phoenician haplogroup disproves this claim as it shows that Lebanese of all denominations are heterogeneous." (Final note. Also, the wrong impression that the Maronites are different ethnic group from the Lebanese ethnic group could be emphasized by the following: I even had to add the template "WikiProject Lebanon" in all Maronite categories, check example Category talk:Uruguayan Maronites.) MyNewAccountName (talk) 20:46, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Signpost exit poll[edit]

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Temple of Eshmun[edit]

Hi, I saw the edit on the above article and returned it to the anon's edit. It shows on the talk page that the correct era for the article is the BC convention and this was wrongly changed by a user named mdcar7 who used the account purely for switching several articles to the BCE system. According to the WP:MOS it is to stay as the original format.--Mevagiss (talk) 11:25, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Hey @Mevagiss:, MoS reads " Do not change the established era style in an article unless there are reasons specific to its content". I did not see how the unregistered user's edits could improve on the article. when i wrote the article i used AD system for eras until someone suggested changing them DURING the featured article Evaluation process and i dont recall who it was but it was unanimously accepted then. Why would mdcar7 switch AD to Current era system? what could be his motives? Thanks -Elias Z 15:22, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
Actually i was mistaken, this happened during the GA nomination process, the eras were switched to BCE/CE before FA nomination and were stable since. no mention of it here, but it was Al Ameer Son who suggested the change here. -Elias Z 15:30, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
Elie, in response to your question at my talk page: there is no unwritten rule regarding era formats that I'm aware of. Looking back at my suggestion in '09, I appear to be incorrect in suggesting that the MoS prefers the common era to the traditional BC/AD format. The MoS doesn't care which is used as long as it remains consistent throughout the article. It also suggests that if either of the dating systems has been used in a particular article for a while, then it shouldn't be changed unless there's good reason to. That being said, the BCE/CE format has been used in the Temple of Eshmun article since I made the suggestion in '09 (that's about seven years now), so my question to @Mevagiss: is why should it be changed to BC/AD now? To me, and apparently to Elie as well, the BCE/CE format is preferable because it's more secular than the Christianity-centric BC/AD format, which I believe is particularly important considering that the article in question is a Middle Eastern/Lebanon-related subject and the Middle East/Lebanon contain a multitude of religions besides Christianity. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:16, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
I'm gonna wait for his reply for a couple of days; if I don't hear from him I'll revert it to the common era style for the reasons stated above. And I hope he doesn't engage in the reverting game for a silly and non deserving couple of edits the way he did with @Trekphiler: -Elias Z 06:41, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
Well done for keeping an eye on this article. However there are several incorrect assertions above. It is not difficult to scan the article's history. The article not only did not use BCE format, it only used the AD one; Al Ameer did suggest switching the era usage and the talk page shows that this was opposed by 2 editors, so it did not happen. In this edit [[1]] a user MDCarr57 (whose account was only used to change era conventions) changed all of the BC etc. to BCE. Nobody questioned or reverted this edit which was done without explanation in the edit summary. Kindly don't attack me by describing my contributions as silly. I am following the correct WP policies.--Mevagiss (talk) 09:19, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
Whatever you say. I'm not starting a war over this and I still think your edit was pure nitpicking. Happy new year. -Elias Z 09:31, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Yusuf Karam-Tanyus Shahin[edit]

Hey Elie. I noticed you significantly contributed to the Yusuf Karam page. I was wondering if you had any information/sources about the battle/conflict between Karam and Tanyus Shahin that took place after the 1860 civil war. I nominated the article about Shahin for GA recently and was hoping to find more info (and a free image) about him after the civil war, with little luck other than this snippet: [2]. --Al Ameer (talk) 06:58, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

@Al Ameer son: I'm afraid it will be a couple of days before I get back home but I reckon I have something by Kamal Salibi. I will let you know as soon as I can. I'll try a quick search from the office too. Oh and mind you the Yusuf Karam article is very mythologized, last time I checked it I did not like the tone of it and I got an angry message from one of the editors when I tried to make it reflect reality. -Elias Z 07:21, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
My mistake. Maybe we can take a crack at editing the Karam article at some point in the near future if our schedules allow. As for Shahin's article, thank you, any additional information is appreciated. --Al Ameer (talk) 07:46, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
Nope, not much luck, only found this for now: Farah, Ceasar E. (2000). Politics of Interventionism in Ottoman Lebanon, 1830-1861. I.B.Tauris. p. 676. ISBN 9781860640568. Retrieved 31 December 2015. . Most writers just barely mention him. Concerning the Yusuf Karam article I don't see how this can be your mistake. There is an active Youssef Beik Karam committee whose sole business is to spread this kind of propagandist, essay-like articles. I fear the natives of the North will take personal offence if we try to include works of academic hisotorians. -Elias Z 08:06, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

@Al Ameer son: I've littered your talk page enough, I'm gonna post relevant ideas here. I found this book, the snippets read (

  1. P337 "missive #73; general de Beaufort reconciles Karam with Tanios Chahine..." (
  2. p.389 "... incidents in [the] Keserwan between Tanios Chahine and youssef Karam. Karam has difficulties running the Christian Qaimakamat; Beirut 24 MArch 1861..."
  3. p.390 "...Karam to Shefer concerning voices against his tenure. 26 March 1861. Missive from Shefer to Thouvenel; armed conflict between Karam and Tanios Chahine, the latter eloped. Taxes collected without difficulty. The Turkish authorities try to take advantage of the situation.".
  4. p.401 " Reconciliation of Karam and Tanios Chahine in the presence of the general. 12 April 1861 "
  • I believe the initial role of Chahine as Sheikh Shabab should be clear before he became Wakil. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 21:01, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

now this is interesting we can now piece it together i think

  1. p.40 documents prove that Chahine was not only in contact but an accomplice of the Ottomans.
  2. p.43 " ... to return the Sheikhs [khazens] properties, starting with Tanios Chahine who declared that if the Khazens return to the Mountain [Mount Lebanon possibly from Beirut where they were forced] then the peasants and himself would convert to protestantism."
Thanks for the info. Yes, I think together with the snippet source I cited above [3] (which I can explore more) we could piece together the events of Shahin's life following the civil war. As for his role as sheikh shabab, I mentioned it in the "Early life and character" section, but maybe it's worth mentioning again in the "Leader of peasant's revolt" section. --Al Ameer (talk) 21:23, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
  1. p. 95 talks about the episode where Chahine did not march on Zahle.
  2. p. 211 i suppose it's about Karam: "Immediately after his nomination, he saw the defiance of Tanios Chahine _the leader of the men of Keserwan_ who is a friend of General de Beaufort and who thought he could take use of the French expeditionary corps." ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 21:28, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

[4] p.1527: "...the leader of the peasant revolt Tanios Chahine under his authority. Did he have the intention to arrest him and deliver him to the Ottomans? No one could tell. Chahine had refused to meet with Karam during a religious ceremony in which the Maronite patriarch should have participated. He demanded a written guarantee assuring him that his "liberty will be respected" as a condition for turning up.


  1. p.157 "Hattoumi (page 90 of his work on the Keserwan)relays a conversation he had with Chahine where he told him that it was the Pasha (Khurshid) who was behind the peasant movement. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 21:40, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

I tried to piece it together at the "Later life" section until we get more info. Please add anything that's missing or make the necessary corrections, including the chronology of events. --Al Ameer (talk) 05:11, 2 January 2016 (UTC) P.S. I just realized this, but the source I cited above is a snippet of Yehoshua Porath's work "The Peasant Revolt of 1858–61 in Kisrawan", which is apparently the most detailed study of that revolt and Shahin's role throughout. I'm going to try to get hold of it. --Al Ameer (talk) 05:40, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Ernest Christophe[edit]

The DYK project (nominate) 00:01, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Maronite Church[edit]

I'm not sure I can entirely take credit for those paragraphs. The first was moved up from History for better organization; the second and third were imported from Maron, as they did not seem pertinent to a biography. My contributions are thus far largely a bit of copyediting, and material sourced from El-Hayek. Mannanan51 (talk) 21:01, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Greater Lebanon[edit]

Hi Elie plus.! Why you revert my humble contribution on Greater Lebanon I understand you do this in good faith. Please confirm that what I wrote are the historic facts. Since I made a acurate investigation of historical facts in books of the time. It all can be read in many books, in arab and english language. The pourpose is to have a acurated description of the historical events so readers get a reliable source of information. for that I was congratulated for my contribution by other members like: Hindustanilanguage and I responded thanking him for motivation. But you are reverting all my work, based on what? because facts are confirmed in my work. I apreciate that after you confirm the facts on good faith you revert to my contribution, Thank you Elie Plus Respectufly Trinity Abbey — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trinity Abbey (talkcontribs) 09:26, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

The Fist official flag, The Cedar Tree, The Greater Leban, The French Mandate[edit]

Is true Elie it was used during the mandate and it is true that the Lebanon nation state did exist at the time. After the first world war ended Elie, as it was decided at the Paris Peace Talks and signed at the Versalles Treaty. Together with Iraq, Syria, and Jordan Lebanon was proclaimed as nation state in 1919 »[6]

French mandate for Syria and Lebanon had its own Flag »[7] In a historical document Mokarzel ask France Prime Minister President to accept to have a first official flag and code of arms to promote the Lebanese newly formed nation state unity. It reads Flag of Lebanon during the French Mandate.»[8] It was necessary at the time to ask diplomatically all countries postal service to mail name to Lebanon, not Syria as they requested. Since it causes loss of identity in favor to a neighbor that wanted Lebanon territory. Simple things cause big difference in history. I am not asking for credits. I did this to lead readers to knowledge. That is why in my fist communication I respectfully ask you to first check the facts before reverting because in my opinion accuracy of the history is of great importance, it generates unity, for that many people in the Middle East and migrants spread all over America give their money and others their life for a dream they call the greater Lebanon. You wrote to me that is not necessary in articles such as the one about cedars. But this is of great importance. Cedars is the back bone of the Lebanon independence. After the Versalles Treaty, Naoum A. Mokarzel, for years and after his dead his brother Saloum Mokarzel travel to all allied countries with the good faith present of a Cedar Tree to the head of States. These trees, now splendidly grown in to magnificent grandeur of the Lebanese people can be seen in their official residences; it was a sample of friendship and their moral support to protect Lebanon against other powers. This is one great thing about historical knowledge, simple things for others are of great importance. My motivation is precisely the fact that there is not enough accurate information about Lebanon quest for freedom. That is why persons don’t know the facts about when it was proclamed a nation state, is its first official flag, etc. My contributions are acurate Elie, but you reverted not only in the Cedars, that before you read this, you consider it was not related, but you reverted all my works about Lebanon history and of course it is very demotivating after making years of investigative work where is no enough accurate information in the internet but in books, to contribute with real facts. Congratulated by ones and reverted by others. No matter its accuracy, many or all members can revert works, is an easy thing it can become a never ending game. Contribute with real facts lost in Arab books, that is another story. So in the purpose of good faith, in a quest to give knowledge. If after you read this and you confirm the veracity of what I respectfully contribute, please revert my work. Acording to his own life, knowledge talent, etc. people have different styles, so if in your opinion, there is a mistake in form Elie, please contribute help me and use that experience you have to solve it. But don’t waist my work effort to contribute with knowledge, so people will know simple historical facts as: When Lebanon was a Nation State recognized by all the countries, who signed that; Lebanon first official flag, its first official crest of arms, The importance of the Cedar Tree; The Greater Leban, The French Mandate, etc. so there is national pride growth. Respectfuly Trinity Abbey --Trinity Abbey (talk) 11:07, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

It sounds great Edie I really appreciate it.![edit]

I have irrefutable historical sources; I will include the links your advice. Is was not easy to find, much information is in old books, some in Arabic language, very few are in the internet and the information is overwhelming for the normal reader to find the quote. Information was lost, much happen during World war I & II, on things that produced the formation of the Middle East modern States. That has been very complicated to keep the peace in place. There are books by late prestigious university professors. University of Minnesota, the University of North Carolina etc. and other recognized organizations have great programs of the Lebanese Immigration and all about the Mokarzel family, their obstacles, projects for the Greater Lebanon. »[9] About Naoum A. Mokarzel quest for historical quest and their achievements to better their mother land and his death.  »[10] Woodrow Wilson (Wilson Center) has a program but it only refers this as a reference. »[11] Salloum A. Mokarzel »[12] Al-Hoda & Syrian World»[13]»[14] it was the only institution at the time. This programs are working but taken years. This Wikipedia link»[15] like the youtube link I included it gives a didactically easy to understand idea of the time and circumstances. The information to be seen in there was disclosed according to The New York Times articles own references.»[16] »[17] I remain for your kind advice, Respectfully --Trinity Abbey (talk) 00:27, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Mokarzel life achivementes are interesting and incredible Edie[edit]

In the 1920, Naoum A. Mokarzel life achievement where known by all Lebanese people in Middle East and its immigrants spread in the world. Since he was his champion. this people died, new generations of Lebanese people now don’t know the history, is known by studied scholars, universities, etc. he has one of the most interesting life history. Any of his many achievements are incredible. He achieved impossible things. With his many social, cultural and political organizations and the Al-Hoda daily newspaper, Mokarzel rallied and organized humanitarian help for Europe and the Middle East as he promoted among his followers support for and by the French. Grateful to the Lebanese support during World War I and the hard times in Europe, French President Poncaire committed to their cause a letter addressed to Naoum Mokarzel which was published in the last months of the war by the New York Times on July 27, 1918. “Please transmit to the league of Syrians and Lebanese of America my warm thanks for the sentiments which they have addressed to France and for their attachments to the associations which unite them to us by so many imperishable souvenirs and confident hope. Also assure them that their interest and their rights are as dear and as sacred to us as ever” French President Raymond Poincare. »[18] Imagine today publish in the New York Times. The fact is that Mokarzel help the wold power head of States in their needs in hard times of war, to gain support for his dream of forming a Nation for the Lebanese people. That is why he won over Faisal at the end of the World War I at the 1919 Paris Peace Conference. On occasion the Greek Orthodox Bishop priest Raphael Hawaweeny got in a feud against Mokarzel because he supported the Maronite, using one of Mokarzel publications where there was no mention of him, his church, the Greek, the Orthodox etc. the bishop got the people in his church against Mokarzel, it got out of control and with a group of people and went to find Mokarzel outside his home at 1:00 am someone shot a friend of Mokarzel, that went to help him since they learn about the bishop plans, when they fly the scene, a person got stop by a police man, this person had a gun, he was the bishop Raphael Hawaweeny, who claim he did not know how to use the gun. There was a trial all the media attention the New York times, etc. the bishop is now Saint Raphael of Brooklyn America most important Greek Orthodox saint.! »[19] There are so many fantastic historical achievements; Mokarzel legaly fought against US inmigration and won to get Syrians entrance to the US. in a trial call whiter than white he paid Daw trial to help all Syrians. »[20] and Mokarzel did the same in Canada, Brazil and Mexico immigration to help his people. Just after the Versailles Treaty. Immigration policy in Mexico got hard on Lebanese with the change of political power brought on by its revolution. Attacks on prominent immigrants and the Arabic Press began; The fact that Mexican President Alvaro Obregon political rival and succeeding President was General Plutarco Elias Calles, of Lebanese descent, resulted in policies to limit political power of the Lebanese immigrants. To protect the rights of the Syrian-Lebanese, including himself the Al Jawater Editor asked for Naoum Mokarzel’s intervention; For that political reasons Mr. Joseph Helou, was accused of a false charge. Mokarzel send urgent telegram to Mexican President Obregon on behalf of Jose Helou and the Syrian Lebanese immigrants. Mexican President did not respond, so Mokarzel Traveled to Mexico from France, invested Mr. Joseph Helou, who had a unfounded arrest warrant on his behalf, president for Latin America Lebanese immigrants assotiation. According to Mexico official records, two months after Naoum Mokarzel visit Mexico to appoint Jose Helou, as on Sept 25, 1922 the Mexican President responded a letter to Naoum Mokarzel: “Wished all Syrian-Lebanese immigrants would make Mexico their second patria” General Presidente Alvaro Obregon »[21] After Mr. Helou his son in law followed with Mokarzel quest for Lebanon, for decades and later after Mokarzel dead with Saloum Mokarzel, he was Mr. Joseph Salim, in Mexico naturalized Julián Slim Haddad. If this story is not incredible, Mr. Helou, is the grand father and Mr. Slim is the father of Forbes No. 1 Carlos Slim Helou. Mokarzel made the new Arab alphabet, to be able to adapt linotypes to Arabic language making the first Arabic language printing press and making possible digital writing for Arabic language for computers, etc. unmeasurable benefit to the Arab culture. On June 18–23, 1913 at the Société de Géographie, 184 Boulevard Saint-Germain Paris, France Nahum Mokarzel participated in the founding assembly of The Arab National Congress, established by 25 official Arab Nationalists delegates to discuss desired reforms to grant Arabs more autonomy under the Ottoman Empire. »[22] The whole Congress declared itself ready to struggle to bring the Arab Nation into being by means of revolution. Although Naoum Mokarzel stared cautiously by saying that: “The Revolution must be literary and reformist”, he continued more aggressively “only the last resort should it be bloody, because the political systems of free nations have been constructed by martyrs and not with printers ink.” »[»] For national unity, us very important to Lebanese new generations to lean about this people sacrifice the great and incredible achievements. and latter after his dead his example was followed by his brother Naoum Mokarzel and his achievements are incredible. Include all this Edie, there is much more, where this came from. I am ready lest do it. --Trinity Abbey (talk) 10:38, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, I will incorporate everything in the article, provided I have reliable sources. @Trinity Abbey: Please stop using <ref> tags on my talk page place the sources in brackets like this [ google]. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 11:36, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Viswanathan Anand[edit]

Hello Elie plus. I noticed that you have restored content which was recently added by (talk · contribs). I have reverted the changes on the basis of the WP:BLP material being unsourced and original research, not supported by the linked-to reference at If this revert was not in error, please contact me on my talk page with an explanation at your convenience. Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 21:24, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

@Yamaguchi先生: I was about to message you, I read the anon contribs and they seemed legit but didn't have the chance to check the cited source. Thanks for clarifying and sorry for the inconvenience. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 21:28, 15 January 2016 (UTC)



just wanted to ask you if you can help with more sources to fill in the Lebanese nationality law, because I do not understand the language, and because there are many discrepancies in the page, some parts were directly copy pasted from other similar pages like Swiss nationality law and many others. Mintytingy (talk) 23:05, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Mintytingy has been blocked as a sock. Meters (talk) 23:41, 17 January 2016 (UTC)


Hello Elie Plus, regarding the latest modifications to Batroumine, I agree with you regarding "County" instead of "Country"; I admit it was a mistake; and thank you for correcting it. But regarding "Wissam Shekhani"; would you please help me in adding his name to the village notable people's list? Actually, many names were added without notability such as "Hamid Anwar Katrib" for example, wherein you did not delete his name, and which is not supported by any reference, instead you chose to delete "Wissam Shekhani" which is notable and has many sources online? Can you help in adding his name again, and what are the sources required to provide for your review and approval? Can you teach me the process and support this query please? Thank you Batroumine (talk) 13:13, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

@Batroumine: thanks for pointing those out! I removed most of them, most are not supported by the sources. You started your account on 16-11-2009, that's 6 years ago no? By now you should've got yourself acquainted with Wikipedia policies before making such edits. Your username by itself is problematic because it may indicate COI. To learn more you can start here and make sure you check the links in the blue navbox at the bottom entitled "Wikipedia key policies and guidelines". Issues with your edits include breaches to the following policies Wikipedia:Notability and Self promotion. The answer to your specific query is in the Notability policy. Read that one first and happy editing. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 14:53, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
@Elie plus: Thank you for your reply and care; you are right it's been long time I opened my account but I am too busy at work and couldn't develop much my skills, I still need help actually. Can I be in touch with you for any help and advice in the future? Thank you and wish you a good day Batroumine (talk) 08:17, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
@Batroumine: Of course, I can help when the requests don't breach policy. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 11:36, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
@Elie plus: Thank you and wish you a nice happy day. Batroumine (talk) 08:56, 31 January 2016 (UTC)


1) Hi Elie. Do you know of a site where I could access information from the Lebanese census regarding the demographics/population of individual localities? I know there hasn't exactly been a census since '32, but was wondering if there's some sort of official record regarding basic population figures. If not, do you know of any alternative (and generally reliable) source for such information?

2) As I've been editing articles about Ottoman-era Lebanon, I've noticed there's a significant difference in the way Lebanese localities, persons, etc are spelled than how they're spelled in English-language sources (at least the ones I've come across on google books). For example, Shuf vs Chouf, Yusuf vs Joseph/Youssef, Dayr al-Qamar vs Deir el-Qamar, Shihab vs Chehab, etc. It seems that on English Wikipedia, we're transliterating close to the French way. Is there a standardized form that Wikipedia articles on Lebanese subjects should be transliterated from Arabic or is it just based on an individual editor's decision? If it's the latter case, then shouldn't we have a standardized transliteration form, and if so, should it be more faithful to the English-language sources or the French language? --Al Ameer (talk) 19:31, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

3) Any info about Bashir Shihab II? Particularly about his early life and the period of his exile in Istanbul where he died? Been editing the article recently, and there's sufficient sources out there about his rule (Harris, Farah, Makdisi, Fawaz, Mishaqa-primary source, etc). Was wondering if you had anything from Salibi?

Sorry for so many questions at once, any help here is appreciated. I will copy/paste this to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lebanon as well. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:31, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

hey @Al Ameer son:, quick answer to your first two questions: Localiban; you can switch to english from the top right corner. I'll check my books and brb for the third ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 19:36, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for being so quick, I'll explore the website. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:45, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
@Al Ameer son: Information is not up-to-date though but it's better than nothing. some of the township articles don't have any demographic data at all, some have figures like this one while others show the number of voters which is not so great. You might also want to check Central Administration for statistics but i had little luck with them before. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 19:59, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the updates. It's unfortunate that the population figures are hard to come by. But something is better than nothing, and that Local Liban website has a good amount of basic information needed to start articles on Lebanese localities. I'm still a bit confused as to how to best spell these places on Wikipedia. For example, on the Local Liban website, I see "Aarsal" and "Arsale" used, but the most common English spelling is "Arsal". For now, I'll more or less use the spellings from Local Liban and make redirects for alternative spellings. --Al Ameer (talk) 02:30, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

user question[edit]

I see you have had interactions with Trinity Abbey. I've noticed they are copying the exact same information into multiple articles. They are also translating pages from Spanish (Google refs say Mexico) to English. I'm very suspicious. As you are a Lebanese expert, maybe you know what is going on. Bgwhite (talk) 06:06, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

@Bgwhite: User is new and inexperienced and apparently still not familiar with policy. I have tried to guide him how things work without much success. He (I assume he's a guy) is enthusiastic to the point of obstinance. I don't know what to do with him, I don't like to bite newcomers. May I ask what is concerning you the most? what are you suspicious about? What do you think would be a good way of addressing him? I noticed he started a very problematic Naoum Mokarzel article and I have been working on my own version for several weeks, mining a list sources I have compiled but I didn't have time to make it presentable enough to post it to the mainspace. I will address him once more and you feel free to do whatever you find suitable if he fails to comply to policy. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 09:37, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
I noticed this because he added the same exact content with the same errors. The errors brought me to the articles.
  1. Does the same paragraph belong in each article?
  2. Besides the promotional tone of Naoum Mokarzel and lack of English skills, it looks to be a translated copy/paste. The Google links were to the Mexican site. The word "Filadelfia" is the Spanish name for Philadelphia. But, I can't find anything in Spanish close to the article. He originally started on the Spanish Wikipedia. Something is just not right.
I'm not sure how to handle him. I was hoping he would Speak Arabic/French, so you could better instruct him. But, maybe his first language is Spanish? He only edited for ~one week on the Spanish site, so maybe he is just passing by. Bgwhite (talk) 10:18, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
I don't think he's passing by... I left him a message but I don't believe it will make a difference. I'll wait and see ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:22, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

About Mokarzel article[edit]

Edie. I given you evidence about history facts you reverted. The article was not as if I was writing about a Saint Edie. That paragraph was about the Mokarzel incident with a Bishop who now is Saint Raphael America most important Greek Orthodox Saint. That is an historical fact. Sources: The New York Times; Arab American Historian; The Society for Orthodox Christian History in the Americas (; Joseph Nathan Kane book More First Facts; University of Minnesota Immigration History Research Center; Annual report of the Commissioner of Patents for the year. They are reliable. Again you offer help. I welcome yours or any one, that really helps, in the understanding of a cordial, good intended actions, not obstacles, but fixing them. I am passionate about these history because I am a Lebanese descendant and it is a quest for its independence and who learn some facts will be captured as it happened to you, after I wrote to you about Mokarzel, etc. I made an accurate archeological research investigation in many old books I own about its history, I visited museums and contacted the direct sources, interview leading persons and scholars about the Lebanon immigration and the Mokarzels that lead to its independence. You say that I copy pasted it from google Mexico. If that is so, please demonstrate. It is as easy as making a google search and show what you find about the Mokarzel in Mexico. There is nothing there. You tell others as if I made an article you being previously working. I am not looking for credit.

I will get to it. I'm reviewing the links you sent. With some luck we can start a very nice article for Mr. Mokarzel ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 19:00, 16 January 2016 (UTC) Naoum's biography is gonna be awesome! he had a really interesting life. I am working on his article in my sandbox and I'm really hopeful. It will take some time before i post it to main space cos i want to be well researched and very well sourced. :D ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 09:45, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

The historical facts you reverted, now I blanked the Mokarzel articles I made. Problem solved. --Trinity Abbey (talk) 13:51, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

@Trinity Abbey: I don't know what "archeological research" is and how you can apply it in writing an article about a 19-20th century person. You don't have basic English writing skills and you have utter disregard to rules. You can always edit to your heart's content on the spanish Wikipedia. Bye ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 14:00, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Adel Ismail[edit]

From an excellent library. I would rather not say where in order to maintain privacy!

I am looking at the source at the library now if you would like anything in particular.

Oncenawhile (talk) 12:06, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Great Famine of Mount Lebanon[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Great Famine of Mount Lebanon at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 06:38, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Naoum Mokarzel.jpg[edit]


Thanks for uploading File:Naoum Mokarzel.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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DYK for Great Famine of Mount Lebanon[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:01, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Naoum Mokarzel[edit]

—♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 00:07, 10 March 2016 (UTC) 12:01, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Emir Bashir II[edit]

Maraheb Elie. As you know, I've been planning to nominate Bashir Shihab II for GA, but there's still work to be done. Do you know of any sources that mention his architectural legacy? And if there's anything you think the article is missing or could be improved, please let me know also. Cheers --Al Ameer (talk) 18:33, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

French Language In Lebanon[edit]

Bonjour Elie,

I trust this finds you well.

Please note that although the French language is not the official language in Lebanon, yet it is wothy to note that the "Article 11 of Lebanon's Constitution states that "Arabic is the official national language. A law determines the cases in which the French language is to be used". The language is also used on Lebanese pound bank notes, on road signs, on Lebanese licence plates, and on official buildings (alongside Arabic)." quote-to-quote from French language in Lebanon.

It is so nice of us to keep Lebanon's culture as our grandparents have loved it and wanted it be?

bonne journee... — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:56, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Assaf dynasty[edit]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Assaf dynasty you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. Time2wait.svg This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Calvin999 -- Calvin999 (talk) 09:21, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

File:Wikipedia on Chrome - December 2012.png listed for discussion[edit]


A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Wikipedia on Chrome - December 2012.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Cloudbound (talk) 20:38, 2 May 2016 (UTC)


I can restore the article to your userspace and you can review it, that's not a problem. The banned user in question, if you're not familiar with him, is a massive nationalist type going back about 10 years but is known to have some talents; just give me a ping and I'll restore it for you. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 22:44, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

I've restored it and put it at User:Elie plus/Roman hippodrome of Berytus; whenever you think you're done with it you can move it back into mainspace. And since you asked, the creator was a sockpuppet of Brunodam (if you don't know who he is there's no particular reason you should). Let me know if you need anything else, I'll happily assist. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 20:59, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Cross of all nations.jpg[edit]

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Your GA nomination of Assaf dynasty[edit]

The article Assaf dynasty you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold Symbol wait.svg. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Assaf dynasty for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Carbrera -- Carbrera (talk) 06:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Assaf dynasty[edit]

The article Assaf dynasty you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Assaf dynasty for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Carbrera -- Carbrera (talk) 00:41, 26 June 2016 (UTC)