User talk:Eric Corbett/Archives/2013/May

RFA

I know you'll probably never run for admin and I totally understand why. But just so you know, I'd vote for you. PumpkinSky talk 21:56, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't, he's a reet miserable get. The bit would just make him even more miserable than he already is. I prefer him as Albert Steptoe, not Harold. =) Keri (talk) 22:07, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't even vote for myself, there's far too much I don't agree with and I'd want to change. Fuck consensus. Malleus Fatuorum 22:14, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I'd support him being an admin, but not running for it. The hysteria surrounding that RFA would be so great that it would coalesce, possibly gain sentience (sorry, this is Wikipedia, there's no sentience here, that was silly) collapse in on itself, become a black hole, and destroy the entire Encyclopedia, and possibly the entire Internet. Patience, Malleus, when I become a Bureaucrat I'll just flip the switch myself, and there will of course be no drama at all. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:15, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

The hellhole that RFA is, which steadily gets worse, is why many qualified people like Mal don't run. Wiki is it's own worst enemy.PumpkinSky talk 22:19, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) That's a pretty persuasive argument as to why I might try again, to make Wikipedia implode. But maybe PumpkinSky doesn't know that I already tried twice? Malleus Fatuorum 22:21, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

<reverse psychology> As an admin on this site, I hereby forbid you to run for RFA again. </reverse psychology>. (mwahahaha, my evil plan to destroy the world has almost come to fruition!) --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:34, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Malleus already did run for admin. You opposed. – iridescent 2 22:19, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

He opposed did he? I'll add him to my list. One day, when I'm bored, I might go through and see how many of those opposers are still here. Malleus Fatuorum 22:22, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

That was 5 years ago. I changed my mind long ago. I have seen the light.PumpkinSky talk 22:26, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

My gods, that was five years ago... yikes. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:33, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't time fly when you're having fun. But it would be true to say that I feel as bitter about that today as I did then, and that will never change. I'm not a forgiving person. Malleus Fatuorum 22:41, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

That's fine. Your choice. I just think you'd do great things with the bit. I simply wanted you to know that.PumpkinSky talk 22:44, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

It's no choice at all. You know as well as I do that another RfA would result in the wildest RfA you've ever seen, and I'd just end up being reminded that 90 per cent of those who watch such things hate my guts, and would rather see me gibbeted outside my own house. Which I already know anyway. Malleus Fatuorum 22:51, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I meant your choice as to forgive or not. PumpkinSky talk 22:57, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I see. I never forgive, but I do sometimes forget. Malleus Fatuorum 23:00, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I think you're over optimistic on assuming the "wildest RFA ever" Malleus .... This would take some beating. Can't remember if you were editing back then, but ...well... wow. Probably the first RFA snowstorm Pedro :  Chat  22:45, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

I was, I remember it very well, and I'm quite sure I'd top that by miles. Malleus Fatuorum 22:47, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Small beer? Go on, I dare you (done deal, won't accept, yaaadahhhyaadah) I'd be happy to write the nom for extra lulz (this in the in phrase apparently). And as I'm no longer an admin you get extra kudos (probably for not selling out or some similar bizarre reasoning). Pedro :  Chat  22:53, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Won't ever happen. I didn't know you were no longer an admin; were you pushed or did you jump? Malleus Fatuorum 22:57, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Toys thrown from pram to be honest. I know your next RFA won't happen. I know I was a knob for opposing your first RFA . Pedro :  Chat  23:05, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Lots of other knobs opposed as well, so don't be too hard on yourself. You're in good company. Iridiscent was of the opinion that if I'd just let it run it may have ended up OK, but I was frankly so shocked by the opposition that wasn't an option as far as I was concerned. Malleus Fatuorum 23:12, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

• Idle rambling thoughts. I think the first time I every became aware of Malleus I thought wow ... what a bitter mean man. Then I looked at the RfA pages, and I understood why. Don't get me wrong, the first few folks I met on wiki were real jerks too - but I was really lucky - some guardian angle (Huntster) showed up out of who knows where, and encouraged me. I will say that I'm very glad that I screwed up enough courage to come to talk here. Mal and I have, and will often disagree - but I know I always get a fair shake. AND .. I don't think I have ever seen anyone ask for help that Malleus refused. I remember once I asked about one single sentence, and watched Malleus spend like 3 or 4 hours improving the article. Mal, one thing though - I think sometimes you really underestimate how highly you're thought of by SO many people. Syntax? Sentence structure? Formatting? References? The nuances of a particular word or phrase? .. geesh ... you may well be the very best writer on this project. There's a ton of folks that really do "get that", and appreciate what you do. It's very easy to feel "alone" and isolated on the Internet, and I've never met another wikipedian (as far as I know) .. but I saw a picture of a UK meetup, and damn, I would have loved to have been there. Anyway ... sorry for the wall of text .. just passing through. — Ched :  ?  00:19, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

  I think I may be at least one the best writers on the project, but what marks me out is that I'm undoubtedly one of the most helpful. Which is why I really find it so difficult to understand why so many, supported by ArbCom, are so keen to see the back of me. But am I bitter? You bet your ass I am, so you got that right. Malleus Fatuorum 00:32, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm just guessing here ... but if I had to put a "why" to everything. I'd say two things. One: If someone comes at you with something .. then you give as good as you get. And people will cherry-pick a diff or something and try to paint you in a corner. Two: Sometimes I think you just get really tired at the end of a long day - and you tend to just tell it like it is. Some folks don't like the bare facts thrown in their face ... it can hurt. Just IMO. — Ched :  ?  02:14, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Bzzzt ... The real "why" can be found in Geogre's hugely-missed perception from 2006 at User:Geogre/Comic - just read "Manchester Bulldog" for "Neapolitan Mastiff". It was written about how Giano was being harassed back then, but the vicious stupidity of some Wikipedians in baiting our most talented contributors has not altered one jot since then. --Famously Sharp (talk) 20:39, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Malleus, the problem with your "helpful" is you have a terrible habit of teaching them how to fish rather than doing all the work and quietly walking away. You make the mistake of thinking people want to learn, when they often want someone to just do the hard work, then debate them (or have you simply go away) when it comes to the finishing details. You are a good teacher, but only to a good student. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 23:11, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

I think there's some truth in what you say Dennis. My aim has always been to show people how to do it rather than have to do everything myself. Malleus Fatuorum 23:22, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Most good teachers are blunt and push you to figure things out on your own when you need to. Most editors at Wikipedia aren't good students, to be honest. Nice enough folks, but not good students. Coming here and saying "I'm not good enough at something and need to learn" to total strangers is difficult. Most people feel too vulnerable, and the desire to be accepted as an equal by their peers can make some people defensive and reactive. We that choose to be here are an odd lot to begin with, with no fewer hangups than the average person. Or I'm full of shit, you decide. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 23:57, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

"Knowledge is the only thing you can give away but still have". Malleus Fatuorum 00:24, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, knowledge and venereal diseases. MastCell ^Talk 16:15, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

• GBS is cited as saying (or writing) that, “If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.” Very beautiful, the WP ideal. But unfortunately (as Dennis suggests) there are people who let you provide all the ideas, and do all the hard work, and then grab the result and try to take credit for it. LittleBen (talk) 01:19, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

The first part is called non-rivalry. The second is non-excludability.Volunteer Marek 01:51, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

• Here's the conundrum I have. I very often come across FA or GA nominations that really need lots of work. I could just list all the work required or I could do it myself, but what I often do is to fix some of it myself as a guide to how the rest ought to be fixed. And sometimes I even end up adding the material I complained was missing, as with the GA for Team Bath F.C. for instance. But I rarely get any thanks for that, whereas user:BDD is being sanctified at RfA for presiding over the idiotically named Guild of Copyeditors, many of whom can't even spell correctly. I really don't think that's acceptable. Malleus Fatuorum 01:12, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

  I'm not sure I agree he is being sanctified, but in general, he is an agreeable sort and not the type of fellow that would block someone for 12 seconds to prove a point. That counts for a lot. Today is the one year anniversary of my RfA completion, and I would like to think that I've learned more about editing in the last year than I did in the first six, so getting the bit doesn't mean you stop learning how to edit. I'm not particularly brilliant, so I'm guessing he can continue to learn and become a better editor as well, and I'm actually convinced he will do a better job at it than I have. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:05, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

  While I hear what you're saying, bear in mind you're talking to someone who was once blocked for a second, just to make a point. What's changed since then? Nothing. Malleus Fatuorum 02:18, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

  That is actually part of the reason I look at demeanor so closely. I want admins that aren't quick to block or highly volatile, even if they aren't our finest writers. Since BDD is a academic librarian (really), I have high hopes in the future in the way of editing. If a marketing schmuck like me can learn to write, surely a librarian can. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 18:28, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

  I seriously doubt that Wikipedia pays much regard to good writing, else so many of its finest writers wouldn't have been driven away. Geogre is an oft-cited example, but how much more abuse are writers such as Giano expected to tolerate without occasionally blowing up? Only a few minutes ago an anonymous IP told me on my talk page what a pompous git I am, which is quite typical of the environment here; if you're good at something you'll have it thrown in your face as being worthless, and the only thing you're capable of doing. Malleus Fatuorum 18:39, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

  The problem boils down to two issue: Admin who see themselves as the bosses of the community, and civility police. That is my criteria, people whom I think won't take those attitudes and try to force their singular version of civility over the rest of us. I don't sweat their authoring skills as long as they have reasonable experience, empathy and clue. This is how we change the environment. I like admin candidates who understand that editors and articles should be left alone unless there is overwhelming need to get involved, ie: who will use the tools as a last resort, not just because they have them. Sometimes I'm puzzled at your opposing, understanding how you feel about editing experience, but knowing they are the kind of people you would prefer to have the block button. As for the insults, I get plenty of that but I easily dismiss them after considering the source. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 12:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Is it just me?

It seems a waste of time to respond at RfA. An isolated negation of "intelligent and honest" as "not intelligent and not honest" could have been dismissed as a brain fart, but the last days' dragon teeth of "stupid and dishonest" makes me wonder if these kids passed fourth grade.

And the comparisons of Catholicism to Communism....

Would that ArbCom had topic-banned people from replying to me at this terminal but interminable RfA. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:39, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Tyntesfield

Would you be king enough to take a peek at Tyntesfield, with a view to improving my grammar before a possible GA nomination?— Rod ^talk 19:15, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm no king Rod, but nominate it and I'll do the copyedit and review in one fell swoop. Malleus Fatuorum 20:03, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Subtle but real

Took me awhile, but I finally discovered the difference between '''x''' and ;x in Refs section. (Thanks!) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 04:51, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Four-fifths of ...

Hey Malleus, apropos of just spending a couple of hours browsing through numerous articles relating to apparently minor Bollywood starlets etc and despairing of improving any of them, my thoughts have turned to Ray Winstone's comment on Have I Got News For You last night. He said of the recent laudatory comments concerning the UK's 0.3 per cent growth figures that, "0.3 per cent is four-fifths of fuck all". He's paraphrasing an old rugby song that would probably be too rude to reproduce even on this page and which itself most likely has older origins, but with all these articles about minor sports stars, actors etc I am increasingly of the opinion that Wikipedia's content is four-fifths fuck all. Yes, storage is allegedly cheap and there is no compulsion to read such articles but the task of maintaining a spiralling number of poor, mostly trivial articles becomes more problematic with each one that is added, especially since many are BLPs. Was it you who suggested a few months ago that it may not be a bad idea to fork a "core" Wikipedia, with more strict controls regarding notability etc? How would such controls work? - Sitush (talk) 11:10, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

It may have been me, I've expressed similar opinions before, as I think have others. Most recently though I suggested (can't remember if it was here or on a site that can't be mentioned) that almost all of Wikipedia's BLPs ought to be deleted. Poof, 90% of problems solved. My forking idea is to move all of Wikipedia's audited content (GAs and FAs) to a separate site with stricter rules about who can edit. No more of the "anyone can edit" bullshit. Malleus Fatuorum 11:20, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Ah, it was a suggestion to move the audited content somewhere with tighter controls. I guess the question then becomes one of how the auditors are audited or how the selection process for edit rights would operate. Assuming the fork was contained within the WMF structure then an article on en-WP would contain a redirect to the forked site? Or would you prefer to see something completely separate and let en-WP go to the dogs?

Deleting a lot of BLPs makes sense but, again, the issue of criteria would arise. I wouldn't mind deleting a lot of the stuff about dead people unless they comply with more strict notability requirements, eg: their death was formally obituarised in a journal or a "serious" national newspaper. Of course, the likes of DGG would likely be spitting feathers if this was mooted but as things stand our notability and RS requirements seem to be something of a moveable feast, ie: the standards vary according to the context. - Sitush (talk) 11:57, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

It would be seamless, simply that there would be tighter controls on who could mess with the audited content. As for who would choose the auditors, well I would of course, but as a first cut only those who have produced audited content themselves would have the right to edit. Malleus Fatuorum 12:04, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Both the only include assessed articles and the only allow approved people to edit quality articles models have been tried, and both failed miserably. You need to remember that what has historically driven Wikipedia is the froth of minor editors and people with a single obscure interest. The former are the growth medium from which the "major" article writers (and photographers, bot-scripters etc) sprout, and it's very hard to guess which are going to develop into someone worth keeping other than by letting them loose in the grey goo and seeing what transpires. (You presumably remember the editor I once described as "the most slack-jawed and drooling of the current crop of wannabees" who later quit the social-networking and revealed a remarkable knowledge of early submarine warfare, for instance, as well as the editor whose early edits demonstrated a great knowledge and writing ability but over time revealed themselves to be an outright lunatic with a propensity for fabricating sources.) The latter provide the little-read but necessary articles on minor topics, which is what separates Wikipedia from Britannica and co.

What really needs to happen to rein Wikipedia in to a manageable size isn't mass deletion or elitism, but mass-merging. Far too many of Wikipedia's articles are pointless Blo-jobs which exist just for the sake of existing; something like Çäçe or G. T. Marsh and Sons (the first two pages that came up on hitting Special:Random) would be much more useful as entries in List of towns in Ahal Province and List of landmarks in Monterey where they could be compared-and-contrasted at a glance. (Unless someone's deleted it recently, my proof-of-concept Infrastructure of the Brill Tramway page still exists; the every-grain-of-sand-on-the-beach brigade insist that every railway station needs an independent article, even though this page is far more useful to anyone wanting to know about Wotton railway station.)

However, the WMF is obsessed with size over quality (that the article count appears above TFA on the main page is not a coincidence), so there will be no enforcement from above in this direction, and as long as DYK acts as a perverse incentive to create rather than improve, nothing is going to change. Unless and until you can persuade Google or Microsoft to subsidize and publicize a rival, or persuade the major chapters to shit or get off the pot and actually secede from WMF rather than sit on the sidelines bitching, then the WMF with all its dysfunction, grey goo and social-network games is what you're stuck with. – iridescent 2 16:29, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

You're quite right, of course, but perhaps I see the problem slightly differently. To take just one example, a few days ago I came across Borley Rectory, once known as Britain's most haunted house. It was littered with {{cn}} tags, and it took me a couple of days to find reliable sources for what I could. But where's the glory in that? I didn't create the article, I didn't nominate it for DYK and it's not even a GA. What encouragement does anyone have to improve any article? None? Malleus Fatuorum 17:10, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

The requisite cultural change could be enacted with two mouseclicks and one keystroke; delete section 1 here and the ethos of the MMORPGers who act as Wikipedia's cultural drivers would instantly change from "newness" to "interesting or important". (As DYK won't accept anything with maintenance tags, people would presumably work on fixing the issues on articles they find interesting, once the perverse incentive to create-at-all-costs was gone.) Since too many people would lose their high-scores, it won't happen. – iridescent 2 17:32, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I've long been a critic of TonyTheTiger's Four Award, but it seems that baubles are where it's at. Without the promise of a bauble why should anyone do anything? I created the number of articles I've done really to make a point to those gullible fools who believe that Wikipedia is in some sense complete, and therefore it's perfectly natural to expect that the emphasis switches from creation to guardianship. But the real switch needs to be from creation to improvement, and as that's seriously hard work it'll never happen. Much easier to wander around tagging articles in preparation for your upcoming RfA, to demonstrate that you have some understanding of policy. Malleus Fatuorum 17:50, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm never adverse from baubles - I am female, after all - but they don't drive all my actions. I enjoy the Core Contest - it spurs me to improve important articles. And once I get my teeth into a subject, I generally can't stop until I've driven it as far as I can... But the chances of me ever passing RfA would be very very slim. I don't do the political thing well. Ealdgyth - Talk 19:41, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I think you might be surprised to find that you'd walk it. You've really only blotted your copybook by consorting with me. Malleus Fatuorum 19:59, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Found my way here when hit "what links here" for an NRHP article that has been pretty savagely disparaged here. The commenter wishes to eliminate short Wikipedia articles, in favor of including the same short text in one suitable list-article. However, the reasoning is flawed, because the commenter misses that there would be multiple suitable list-articles and other articles that could depend upon it. The same item should possibly be mentioned in several articles and included in several/many list-articles, e.g. perhaps List of notable Chinese-American stores in the United States, Examples of Szechuan architecture in the U.S., National Register of Historic Places listings in Monterey County, California, Visitor attractions in city of Monterey, California. For many NRHP items, it should be included in corresponding "Architect" or "List of works by Architect" article. It simply doesn't make sense to avoid creating one central, core article on the place. The core article should include more, and probably will, such as multiple photos and more detail. The list-articles that include an item on the place, should link to that, and include one photo and a summary drawn from it. But it would be foolhardy to try to keep separate, parallel summaries up-to-date in multiple list-articles with no central core location. So, a central core article for any item that could possibly be referenced in different ways (i.e. for practically every registered historic site) is needed.... --doncram 18:06, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

"Parenthetical commas"??

Hi, I need some advice -- I have a guy adding "parenthetical commas" to D. B. Cooper. Example: "...hijacked a Boeing 727 aircraft in the airspace between Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington, on November 24, 1971..." He claims that commas after state names are "necessary" because the state names are parenthetical; that is, the commas function as brackets. I say they serve only to obfuscate -- and I've never heard of such a rule anyway; it's certainly not in WP:MOS. (Discussion on his talk page is here.) Edit warring over commas seems absurd, but what else can I do, other than reverting him, and telling him it's ridiculous, both of which I already tried? Any help appreciated. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 15:57, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I think he's right, the commas should be there. Malleus Fatuorum 16:13, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, you're no help at all! :-) I thought you, of all people, might favor less commas over more; but I stand (sit) corrected. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 17:28, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Commas have their place, and they're sometimes necessary to avoid ambiguity. Sorry to have disappointed you. Malleus Fatuorum 20:05, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Agreed; I just don't think that routinely putting them after state names is one of those times. One, between city & state, should be plenty. But I've moved on. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 20:33, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I hope that my friend Malleus would agree that a look at Apposition will clarify that non-restrictive appositives, single nouns included, are normally set off with commas. --RexxS (talk) 23:07, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I might, if I had any idea what an appositive is. Is it something you stick up your bum? I leave all that technical stuff to my good friend Drmies; I just go with what feels right to me. Malleus Fatuorum 23:13, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I pulled an appositive out of a patient's bum once, when I was working ERs. I think that's what he called it... DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 00:50, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

When Malleus says you need more commas rather than less fewer, then you need more commas. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 19:24, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Rather like Malleus, I'm not intimately familiar with grammatical rules and go by what sounds right, but I'd say you definitely need the commas after the state names. The MoS (MOS:COMMA) also seems to agree. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:43, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

In the US it's certainly mandatory (it's really that strong and widespread) to put commas after states (and, in the date format used in the example, after the year). BE may vary. Appositives are--no, I can't make that butt analogy work. They're beautiful, though, unlike...well, I'll stop there. Drmies (talk) 20:00, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Split infinitives? Dyson vacuum hoses? My mind is rampant with possibilities given the variety in this thread. - Sitush (talk) 23:40, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

I've pulled both of those out of butts too. Well, it was a split something...

BUT ... not to belabor the point (or the grotesque metaphor) ... I couldn't pull anything like this supposed rule out of MOS:COMMA ... and I looked pretty carefully ...

And none of the several medical publications that I write for take me to task for omitting commas after states, not that that means much of anything... DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 23:50, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

My problem is that I don't know the names of American states, so "Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington," sounds like four different places with a misplaced "and", no matter how many commas you use. Why not use ( )? - John O'London (talk) 08:04, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Please feel free to contribute to the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Commas in geographical names. Malleus, you may have better luck convincing them than I have. —sroc (talk) 10:26, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

American automobile industry in the 1950s

Thanks again for all your help in reviewing and instructing. Knowing when to tell me where I made a mistake, when to only show me part of the answer, and when to just tweak it yourself made it a very educational and painless experience. I've really enjoyed working with you on the two auto related articles and hope we can do more in the future. My Sunbeam Tiger book just came in the mail, so I would say that is very good timing. Actually, it is a collection of articles from 37 different sources over the years, properly cited. A Wikipedian's dream. Too bad you don't live nearby, I would loan it to you, although I might never get it back. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 23:48, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

You probably wouldn't. I haven't had a look around yet to see what I can find on the Tiger, but I'm optimistic we'll be able to do something with it. I've got a couple of other things I need to finish off first though. Malleus Fatuorum 00:36, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

No hurry, this is your baby, I'm just along for the ride. I'm still recovering from respiratory issues, so a bit sluggish. About to have a tea, curl up with dogs and the wife, and call it a night. I will dig in to the book tomorrow. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:50, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Someone find me a hook ...

For DYK in William de Warenne (justice). I'm at a loss. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:49, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

If you could explain in the article what a justice for the Jews was I think that might do it. Malleus Fatuorum 23:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

That might work. We'll see if I have any motivation after I finish my dinner (Which I just put on the stove). If not, there is always tomorrow. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:13, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

If I told you that my supper is going to be chicken jalfrezi with curried chickpeas and nan bread, where would you think I lived? Malleus Fatuorum 23:41, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I know better (grins). I'd avoid the curried anything, sorry. I'm not a fan of curry ... I don't eat spicy stuff as a general rule. (I quite honestly find black pepper to be too hot to have on my food most of the time). Mine was clam chowder with oyster crackers. Yum! Ealdgyth - Talk 23:44, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I love curries. The irony is that when I worked in Pakistan I wasn't allowed to eat them, except in my hotel, so I had to survive on pizzas and burgers during the day. Malleus Fatuorum 23:50, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK that although the Baron of Wormegay served under King John, he didn't quite fit in. Ning-ning (talk) 06:31, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK that William de Warenne, bla bla, was the son of a monk? Johnbod (talk) 18:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

…that it cost William de Warenne 500 marks to take his wife from Stansted to Wormegay? This will completely baffle Americans, but every European will get it; it relies on the fact that "Stansted" is to Europe as "O'Hare" is to the US, as the hub for virtually every cheap airline in Europe.

Is "Stanstead in Essex" a correct-but-archaic spelling and contraction, or a typo? The town in Essex which was the seat of the Mountfitchet family (and still houses Mountfitchet Castle—Nev1, why is that still red?) is Stansted Mountfitchet, and AFAIK has been since Domesday. "St Mary Overy" also looks odd to me, as I've never seen it spelled any way other than "Overie". (It shouldn't redirect to Southwark Cathedral either, as SMO is the area and not just one building in the area, but that's by the by.) – iridescent 19:11, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

My source very specifically states "Stanstead" - I double checked the spelling. However, the source it's referecing does use "Stansted". I've fixed the link. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:21, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

How about the slightly ambiguous "Did you know that from 1194 to 1196 William de Warenne was responsible for the honour of Gloucester?" I'm sure many readers would be a little intrigued by that. Richerman (talk) 20:00, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Iridescent, either you overestimate Europeans, or you think they're like you lot. I'd never heard of Stansted. I like Richerman's intrigue. Drmies (talk) 00:10, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Stanstead's the gateway to Belarus (like Balham is the gateway to the South), and Belarus is the home of the foot-long gherkin. Ning-ning (talk) 05:11, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Sunbeam Tiger

I noticed both you and User:Dennis Brown working on this. I'm going only on memory here, so I could be wrong on both of these:

1. There was a series of young-teen books that I read years ago called "Black Tiger", and I think the Sunbeam may have been featured in a couple of those. Author's last name may have been O'Conner, but I think that was just a pen name.
2. IIRC there was an Elvis Presley movie with one of these in it as well.

I'm not sure either is relevant to the article you're both building, just thought I'd mention it. (may fall into the WP:NOTTRIVIA area, idk) — Ched :  ?  19:24, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

• I have a link to all the movies it was in on the original talk page, and some other links. We are now working on it in user space here, which allows us to be a bit sloppier in the building process, something I'm known for ;-). I will just do a history merge when we are done. Thanks for the these tips as well, it all helps. This is a bit more challenging to source than most, but I'm confident we can create a very nice article that is worthy of a GA when we are done. I was ignorant of the car when we started, but already developing an affinity for the little beasty. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 19:55, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

• I have a morbid hatred for all the "in popular culture" stuff. My bottom line is that if the material can't be integrated into the article then it has no place in the article. In other words, what does telling me that Maxwell Smart drove a Tiger tell me about the Tiger? It could be integrated by relating that he didn't actually drive a Tiger at all, as with the space occupied by the V8 engine there would have been no space available for his under-bonnet machine gun. Malleus Fatuorum 20:06, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Uxbridge

Thanks for your review of the article and for the improvements you made. Harrison49 (talk) 21:40, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

I hope you didn't find the experience too stressful. It's a nice article. Malleus Fatuorum 21:48, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Another for the TPSs....

William of Blois (poet) - DYK hook out of that? And thank you to User:Wadewitz who got me two articles that fleshed this poor obscure guy out a bit more... Ealdgyth - Talk 20:43, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Kind of leaps out I think: "... that the major themes represented in the 12-century dramas written by William of Blois are guile, deception, lust and sexual scheming?" Malleus Fatuorum 20:50, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm so pure and innocent that those sorts of thoughts would never leap out at me... (tries to keep a straight face). Ealdgyth - Talk 21:00, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

...that he wrote a poem about a sexual encounter between a transvestite and a brick wall? (according to the article) Ning-ning (talk) 07:32, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I hate hyphens...

Sorry. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:13, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

First commas -- now hyphens . . . were I a semicolon I'd be pretty nervous right now... DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 22:20, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

If you're a semicolon then you ought to be looking over your shoulder, although I'm generally quite fond of them when used correctly. Malleus Fatuorum 22:22, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Yep, that's what they told the Jews...DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 22:32, 8 May 2013 (UTC) (Relax, I'm Jewish)

My father-in-law has a semi-colon, I don't recommend them. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:33, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Those Zs had better watch out too ;-) notice I slipped in a semicolon and a hyphen there? Richerman (talk) 22:36, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

• I take objection to the BE spelling in that article. Where I'm from, we're still in the middle ages. Richerman, TWSS. Drmies (talk) 01:47, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Mount Vernon

I have been thinking you might like to join me in a small project. A month or so ago I rewrote and expanded Mount Vernon and now seems to have settled down. It has some references, but needs an interior section, which I can do - with that added, I don't think it would be far from a GA. It need carefully checking for copyvio, although I have rewritten most of it, some might be there. Its always a worry when a page is dependent on online sources because of the ability to copy and paste. The page has 600 hits a day, so is quite important to our American friends, so it would be nice to bring it up to standard for them. However, I need your GA skills; the problem will be keeping the rubbish and tat out (eg: The place's shop sells "The George Washington crystal cube - shaped paperweight hand-etched with George Washington’s profile and his distinctive signature. The polished planes of the 3” cube are beveled at the edges. This work of art stands at an angle, catching the light from all sides." It could perhaps be the start of a series of American landmarks - perhaps the White House next - that's an over-imaged mess too. I would be prepared to accept a collapsed info box for this page, as they are growing on me - I have already removed an oversized box from the page and nobody objected.  Giano  07:17, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I'd be happy to help out Giano, but my time may be limited until after the weekend. Malleus Fatuorum 07:58, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

well I am failrly limited until the weekend, but there's no hurry, it's been waiting a couple of hundred years already.  Giano 

I checked, but the history does not yet validate semi-protection, even with a lowered threshold given that it's such a high-visibility article. Nice work, by the way. Drmies (talk) 21:31, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I'll give the refs a preliminary clean up, but your copyediting skills will be needed: "Congress passed a joint resolution to construct a marble monument in the United States Capitol for his body, supported by Martha." - she was a lot stronger than she looked. --RexxS (talk) 21:32, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I see Drmies has been collecting all those orphaned commas Malleus has cast aside so brutally ready to give them a home. Richerman (talk) 21:56, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Richerman, that was an awkward sentence. Not all commas are evil, not always. Drmies (talk) 23:07, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I know, just trying to redress the balance a little. Richerman (talk) 23:31, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

If only our cousins across the pond had discovered the semi-demi-colon, he could have used up those commas two at a time. --RexxS (talk) 22:21, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Or the hemi-demi-semi-colon - oh! the unbridled joy of all those hyphens. Richerman (talk) 22:29, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh, crap! 99% of humanity can't even use apostrophes correctly. Do you want to see the world burn? DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 22:40, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I just use lots, and lots, of commas, and poor grammar, which drives Malleus crazy, and compels him, literally, to go in, and fix it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:51, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I sometimes feel like a lone voice in the wilderness; "for Christ's sake no more fucking commas, Wikipedia has way more than enough of them already". Malleus Fatuorum 23:31, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Except for "parenthetical commas", n'est-ce pas? DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 10:55, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Do fucking commas usually start off with a 69? Richerman (talk) 23:36, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm shocked at you Richerman; let's hope that Ealdgyth doesn't see this. Malleus Fatuorum 23:57, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

She's far too pure and innocent to understand it (now I'm struggling to keep a straight face) Richerman (talk) 00:07, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to have seemed to dumped this on you Malleus and then disappeared. Lucrative, but essential RL matters suddenly arose and time has been limited. Hope to have an hour or two tomorrow to write an interiors section. You seem to be doing OK though without me.  Giano  18:00, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm plodding through it, bit by bit. I'm conscious though it might seem to some like two Americans working on the Glastonbury or Stonehenge articles, so I'm trying to tread carefully. Malleus Fatuorum 18:10, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Not much different than me working on William the Conqueror or Norman conquest of England. I can always go through and fix your spelling "mistakes" for you (laughs). Ealdgyth - Talk 18:13, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Quite right Ealdgyth, but I know what you mean Malleus. I would try to write something tonight, but am too tired and a glass of dodgy Australian Shiraz has not helped (they should ban that nation from producing wine). I would not worry too much about our American cousins, it was pretty hopeless when they had it on their own [1] and initially I trod pretty carefully too, but I don't think they are that interested - strange. Anyhow, they will see you as the cavalry riding into the Aramo or wherever it was their cavalry rode so splendidly.  Giano  18:22, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

So far as I recall the Americans were pretty much wiped out by the Mexicans at the Alamo, although Yul Brynner got his own back in The Magnificent Seven. Anyway, I have to pick you up on your opinion of Australian wine. I have a glass of Australian red in front of me now. It's on special offer at Asda at three bottle for £10, a little on the expensive side perhaps, but very tasty nevertheless. Malleus Fatuorum 18:54, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Ealdgyth, please feel free to fix my spelling mistakes. I don't really fully understand some American spelling and grammar conventions, so I just muddle through as best I can. Malleus Fatuorum 18:46, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Tri-Five

I had one just like this as a teen, but in rough condition. It didn't make me cool, sadly. -db

Just got in a really good book to finally source this, thinking about trying to work it up to GA quality after we get done on the Sunbeam Tiger, and wanted to ask a silly question. The article now has three galleries, which makes it fun and interesting, but I'm guessing galleries are frowned upon for GA? I am guessing I can expand the prose by at least 3 or 4 times (might even try for a DYK just for fun), but there still might not be room for all the images I would like without a gallery. I'm more concerned about making it a fun, well illustrated and high quality article than I am getting the GA pip itself, but if I can do both, all the better. It would help if I know ahead of time what the expectations would be. I figured either you or some of your stalkers could educate me on this point. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 00:41, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

There's no doubt in my mind that there are way too many images in that article, galleries or no, and that too many of them look almost identical. If I was doing a GA review of that I wouldn't pass it, as failing GA criterion 6b, but that's arguably a matter of interpretation of WP:IMAGE RELEVANCE#Pertinence and encyclopedic nature and to a lesser extent WP:GALLERIES. Galleries really only work for me when they're illustrating an essential aspect of a subject, the classic example being a collection of an artist's work. The images in this article just look like nerdy fancruft. ("A gallery is not a tool to shoehorn images into an article".) What does a close up of a 1956 headlamp show me, or a car in police livery? Especially as we aren't even told that the police used the Chevy. Some of the claims in this article have me shaking my head as well, such as "Even now, the 1957 Chevrolet Bel Air is one of the most sought after collector cars ever produced." Apart from the fact that it wasn't produced as a "collector car", "most sought after" where? Certainly not in Europe. Malleus Fatuorum 11:55, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

A lesser man might take offense. (nerdy fancruft indeed!) The article was was admittedly an amateur effort to fix a red-link, which is why I'm trying to de-fluff it in user space. I purchased a book that covers the Tri-Five well, including all the background, engineering, stats, etc. From an engineering perspective, they stand alone when compared to the years before and after. I expect to use a lot of illustration (and better grammar) but in a more effective manner in the final product, so I take it that a gallery is a definite no-no, and I need to discriminate much more. I did so much research on the 1950s culture article, it seems a waste to not improve or create the articles around it, which are admittedly American biased in a manner equal to the sources. Thanks for the honest observations. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 13:32, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

You ought to know by now Dennis that anyone who doesn't honestly want to know what I think really ought not to ask me, 'cos I'll tell 'em, in words of one syllable if necessary ;-) Back on the subject of galleries though, depending on your GA reviewer I think you might get away with a reasonably sized one at the end of the article, if it was clearly serving a purpose such as demonstrating some significant differences between the model years for instance. But honestly, what does a picture of an engine beside a hot rod tell me? The gallery is a no-no if it's simply decorative in other words. Malleus Fatuorum 13:43, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

And that honesty is what keeps me coming back, as it saves time that flattery wastes. I think you nailed the idea I had originally, showing the differences, although my first effort was sloppy and perhaps a bit crufty. I'm going to slowly hammer away with it in my spare time, and may ping you later in the process. I don't expect it to be a huge article, but I think the popularity of the cars justifies adding context to complete the story. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 14:13, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Your evident enthusiasm for American metal is beginning to reawaken my own for old British classic cars. Malleus Fatuorum 14:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

The quality of car articles is often lacking yet they have the potential of presenting an interesting snapshot of recent human history and culture, so I would think that is a good thing. I've always been fascinated by how cars have shaped our history and how people in different countries have radically different tastes in autos, showing they play a part in the culture of those societies. In some ways, we are faced with the Chicken or the egg conundrum as 1950s American automobile culture showed us: did we change the car, or did the car change us? That, and fast cars are just cool. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 15:03, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

They are. The last time I took my Jag out a bunch of kids stopped to look as I was driving it gingerly across a narrow bridge over the ship canal (the XJ-S is monstrous compared to most other British cars; a German friend who visited refused to believe that it wasn't American because of its size), and I heard one of them say to his friends "Now, that's a top car". So the appeal is cross-generational. Malleus Fatuorum 18:36, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Not lecturing or being pissy...

Just wanted to put the reasons out plainly on the talk page for all the other editors, readers, etc. Didn't want you taking offence. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:27, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

That's fine Ealdgyth, makes sense. Malleus Fatuorum 11:26, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Middle Ages

Hi Malleus Fatuorum,

Very promt response to my comment on Petrarca. Saw your extensive list of publications, very nice, but I really feel that this piece has room for improvement.

With a name, like such a blurred and often misused name as Middle Ages, a piece can not be clear enough. Should you not introduce it properly as you should introduce yourself? Put the name earlier in the article and place it in the right context.

You write extensively, but in this case can build a better piece in my opinion. Maybe reshuffle and rewrite. Your piece, so far, can be improved.

Cheers,

--Mivest (talk) 14:15, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

If you'd read a bit further in the article, you'd have noticed the information was already there. Properly referenced (as an aside it wasn't Petrarch who came up with the term - it was Bruni.) Ealdgyth - Talk 14:17, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

It's very far from my piece Mivest, Ealdgyth simply very kindly invited me along for the ride. Malleus Fatuorum 14:32, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Main Page appearance: Cotswold Olimpick Games

This is a note to let the main editors of Cotswold Olimpick Games know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on May 31, 2013. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or one of his delegates (Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), Gimmetoo (talk · contribs), and Bencherlite (talk · contribs)), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/May 31, 2013. If it needs tweaking, or if it needs rewording to match improvements to the article between now and its main page appearance, please edit it, following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. The blurb as it stands now is below:

The Cotswold Olimpick Games is an annual public celebration of games and sports held near Chipping Campden, in the Cotswolds of England. They probably began in 1612, and have continued on and off since (1636 depiction shown). They were started by a local lawyer, Robert Dover, with the approval of King James. Events included horse-racing, coursing with hounds, running, dancing, sledgehammer throwing, fighting with swords, and wrestling. By the time of James's death in 1625, many Puritan landowners had forbidden their workers to attend, and the outbreak of the English Civil War in 1642 brought the Games to an end. Revived after the Restoration of 1660, they gradually degenerated into a drunk and disorderly country festival. They ended again in 1852, when the common land on which they had been staged was partitioned and enclosed. Since 1966 the Games have been held each year on the Friday after Spring Bank Holiday. Events have included the tug of war, gymkhana, shin-kicking, dwile flonking, motor cycle scrambling, judo, piano smashing, and morris dancing. The British Olympic Association has recognised the Cotswold Olimpick Games as "the first stirrings of Britain's Olympic beginnings". (Full article...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 23:05, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

My condolences. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:17, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh bugger. I don't keep count of these things, but from memory I think I've been blocked three times so far on TFA day for 3RR violations. I doubt 31 May will be any different, so if there's anything urgent you'd like me to look at best ask soon. Malleus Fatuorum 23:29, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I'll give you a 48hr block on the 30th to save everyone from grief. No more comments on TMitM. Drmies (talk) 04:26, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Actually, the thing to do is to organize a bunch of IP vandal edits, at least a dozen or so from all over the place, and it'll be semi-protected. If you could come up with some fake socks of legit master puppeteers, you might get full protection out of it. Or, pretend to set up an edit war with Wehwalt--both of you break 3RR, I'll fully protect and leave stern warnings for the both of you, and we'll survive the day that way. Drmies (talk) 04:29, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

My apologies, as usual, for picking one of your excellent articles. Raul should have run it last summer, really, but instead we marked the opening ceremony with an American baseball pitcher.... I thought 31st May would be as good (or as bad) a day as any, as this will at least mark the 2013 event. If you have different ideas, I'm all ears. Bencherlite^Talk 09:34, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I was rather disappointed that it didn't run on the opening day last year, as that was a large part of the motivation in writing it. But better late than never I suppose. Malleus Fatuorum 12:38, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I need a bit of help or an admin

Can you suggest an admin who might look over the contributions to George Marsh (martyr)? I don't know anyone to ask? Thanks J3Mrs (talk) 12:51, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Either Dennis Brown or Drmies might by willing to help, and both of them are very reasonable people. In the meantime I'll take a look myself; don't want you getting yourself blocked over a silly 3RR. Malleus Fatuorum 12:55, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, I contacted Dennis Brown but I see you have been tidying up. J3Mrs (talk) 13:15, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I have, I just can't help myself. No doubt we'll get accused of "tag teaming" now, but what the Hell. Whatever you do here there's always someone who objects, so all you can do is what seems right to you. Malleus Fatuorum 13:47, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

This dispute seems to have quieted for now (see the other disputant's talkpage), but I've watchlisted the page. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 13:51, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Let's hope that's the end of it now. Malleus Fatuorum 13:55, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Editors like me who avoid dramaboards and who are not known to admins are at the mercy of pov pushers. I put up with it yesterday so I am grateful that Malleus helped. I know I shouldn't and no, it's not the first time but there must be an easier way of summoning assistance. J3Mrs (talk) 14:09, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

.... and while you were tidying up you left another lesson in referencing. :) J3Mrs (talk) 14:22, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

There are so many referencing options it's sometimes hard to pick the right one to be consistent. As for the pov problem, there's always ANI of course, but I tend to try and avoid that like the plague, as I've never had a good outcome there that I can recall. And when you're into content issues such as the relevance of Marsh's brother-in-law also being arrested as a Protestant there's a limit to what even admins can do, which is why you'll see so many spouting that "bright line" nonsense about 3RR. Which I didn't want you to fall foul of. People have got this idea that I'm anti-admin, but it's difficult to reconcile that with the fact that Drmies and I worked together on The Man in the Moone, which is currently at FAC, and Dennis and I are trying to prepare Sunbeam Tiger for a shot at GA. It's not the individuals I'm against, it's the institution. But in the meantime there's no reason why we can't try and help each other, as in this case, because if we don't, nobody else will. Malleus Fatuorum 14:28, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

You can always drop a note on my page if you have a concern with an editor. I would always prefer to try to talk with someone and work out a solution rather than going to ANI, if it is possible. Often times, it is just a matter of educating the editor of our guidelines on content and steering them in the right direction. That isn't even an "admin duty" really. It is just one editor talking to another, with the goal of not using the admin tools. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 15:10, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I would never go to the drama boards, I prefer to just plough on. Unfortunately I seem to irritate the pov pushers, especially those of a religious bent.....who seem to be the least open to reason. There are others but that's another story. What I need is a "rescue me" button because I am hopeless at quoting all those policies and if I vaguely remember one I can't remember how to find it. That's because I'm not the slightest bit interested in that sort of thing, I just have a sense of what's right and what's not. Nearly four years and still a novice. J3Mrs (talk) 15:53, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I find myself citing acronyms less and less. Common sense should prevail, but there can't be much common sense regarding policy unless one knows policy, more or less. There's lots of different kinds of context, and sometimes the alphabet soup is useful for rhetorical purposes. Dennis is much better at handling user conduct in a productive manner than I am, that's for sure. ANI should be a last resort. But a post on Malleus's talk page is a good alternative, given that there's 552 editors listed as watching it. On my shortlist of helpful admins, DGG and Favonian rank high, and for technical stuff Bbb23 and Writ Keeper. Drmies (talk) 17:30, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Jimmy Wales has 2873 watchers, so I'm pretty small beer. Malleus Fatuorum 18:31, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Still, you're a men among boys. Or, a woman among girls. A giraffe in a crowd of mongooses. Speaking of small beer, I bought a big bottle of Samuel Smith apricot ale. Summer's here, after all. What's your all-time favorite beer? Cheers, Drmies (talk) 18:58, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

When you say "beer", do you mean bitter, mild, lager? I've never liked any mild beer, and I rarely drink bitter these days, only on occasions to be polite. My current favourite beer is Amstel, but perhaps my all-time favourite would be Dunkel beer, which I don't think I've ever seen in the UK. The company I used to work for had its HQ in Munich, so I got to try out a few brands over there. Malleus Fatuorum 19:11, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be nice one day to be able to link to a decent article? Malleus Fatuorum 19:13, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Not only can you buy dunkel in the UK, a brewer of the stuff is just up the road from you. Waitrose do a surprisingly good own-brand as well. – iridescent 2 19:44, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

...and have a very nice pub that sometimes sells brews from other local brewers. Oh and nice food and a really interesting sloping floor. J3Mrs (talk) 19:53, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I'll have to look into that. A field trip may be in order. Malleus Fatuorum 19:55, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

OK, so bitter = pale ale. Yes, that's what I like, though not the India variety--too bitter for me. I drink the Belgian ales. In the possibly close to Dunkel category, I buy Einbecker whenever it's on sale (under $3 a bottle), and they have a dark variety as well. Theirs were the first bocks I ever liked. Here we have Shiner bock, which is kind of like smoking banana peel, if the college kids are right--the first one was real good, everyone after that a disappointment. I like the idea of a field trip; consider asking the WMF for a grant. I'm sure you know how to write the request for funding. Drmies (talk) 04:37, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

India Pale Ale here bears no resemblance to the similarly-named product in the former colonies; here, it's generally weaker than usual, while over there it's generally stronger. Like many things, I much prefer it here. Besides Dunkel, which I agree is amazing, a New World product worth a mention is Negra Modelo from Mexico. I always thought of it as Mexican Guinness. Unusual but rather nice. --John (talk) 05:25, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm having a Michelob Ultra right now (which probably just set off your gag reflex). I am looking forward to going to the Yadkin Valley Wine Festival and the North Carolina Wine Festival in the coming weeks, however. I've already fixed the one red link, hoping my visit will be enough to spark my interest in fixing the other. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 21:33, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm having a Polish beer, Tyskie, which is a nice everyday lager, in an effort to drown my sorrows after the bitter disappointment of discovering earlier that our opus could never qualify for DYK. Malleus Fatuorum 21:50, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

"It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her for it." - W. C. Fields [2]

As wordy as I tend to be, had I handled the prose it would have qualified but been a lesser article for the experience. Worthwhile trade. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER

We could probably pump it up to a five-times expansion over the next five days if we really wanted to, as it's only about 7 kB short right now and there's still quite a bit to say, but the game's not really worth the candle. Malleus Fatuorum 23:08, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

We will see, if we get close, I may file it anyway, knowing we will meet the minimum by the time someone reviews it a few days later. Do commas count towards the prose limit? ;-) Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 23:25, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

As excellent a choice as Tyskie is, the psychological impact of having a colour scheme so similar to that of Red Stripe is enough to put me off. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 22:34, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Its growing, boss. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 00:18, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Up to 13 kB already, only another 7 kB to go. Malleus Fatuorum 00:34, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

That's what you needed, more American influence. Big and bloated (like our cars), with too much to say. :) Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 00:56, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

You know, several sources like "hemmings" [3] make comparisons to the Cobra, which was also a shelby design, putting a big motor in a UK frame. That should be worth two sentences. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 01:04, 15 May 2013 (UTC)nm, I see the one sentence, although more could be said if you were so inclined.

I want to say more about the project being done behind Lord Rootes' back, about Chrysler's decision to pull the plug on the Tiger, and about its competition history in the US, which you may be able to find some info on. Shelby was apparently sent one of the Jensen prototypes to race, but did he actually race it? Malleus Fatuorum 01:47, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm off to bed, but wanted to drop this link I found [4] simply for the images, which I think you will appreciate. The most detailed I've found although it is far from stock. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 02:26, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

• More on beer: I'm drinking a Duvel to the health of IP99's wife, who is recovering from surgery. We drank the Samuel Smith apricot ale today, which was very tasty with a surprisingly full body. For fruity beer I'll take a lambic any day, but this was a nice deviation from the usual Belgian path. Drmies (talk) 05:38, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

On Kahaani FAC

Hi! Thanks for the comments in FAC. Yes, unfortunately, Indian editors (and may be other non-native English speaker editors) tend to incorporate unidiomatic usage of English. As you have suggested, the article would certianly improve if some native English speaker does a copyedit. As I have commented in FAC, finding someone to do copyedit is a problem. Since you have read parts of the article already (I presume), would you be kind enough to do a copyedit? (No, not the reactive copyedit that you told in the FAC, a proper copyedit). If you have time, and interest, this would immensely help the article. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:15, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I cannot express my gratitude! I expected that the article would be withdrawn from FAC, and then we'll have to wait for someone to copyedit. I thank you for your kind help, and would like to assist in case you need (for example, elucidation of something difficult to understand, or, some sourcing issues etc). If you have any comments or observations, please list them in the article talk page, or in the FAC, or user talk page. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 20:53, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Will do. It'll probably take me a day or two to read through the whole thing, but hopefully you won't have any more impatient reviewers like me come along before we're done. Malleus Fatuorum 21:54, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I've replied to your second query ( on the use of thwarted) in the talk page of the article. Thanks a ton.--Dwaipayan (talk) 02:35, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

RFC on TFA images

Dear Malleus Fatuorum, you may be interested in a discussion that I've started at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article#Request for comment - images in TFA blurbs. All views welcome. Bencherlite^Talk 16:32, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Msg for you

Hey Malleus, left you and G a joint msg at User_talk:Giano#Barrington_Court. Also the offer I made at User_talk:Giano#Tyntesfield goes for you too. Cheers, Russavia (talk) 03:08, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Orange bar

Given the furore that seems to be developing, I think it best to let you know that I mentioned this talk page in this edit. - Sitush (talk) 23:34, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

I noticed; the new system isn't all bad. But it's bloody ridiculous that it doesn't link to the posting, as the orange bar used to do. Malleus Fatuorum 00:10, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Funny but I get a pop up with all the last posting linked in a pop up window? Haven't tried to click them though. I hate that damn orange bar though....--Amadscientist (talk) 00:14, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Not in the social loop I guess. As I note this talk page is used for discussions of favorite beers and meet ups but When I am mentioned in your post Sitush...you feel that letting Malleus know about the mention of his talk page is more important to you but not that you were actually responding to me? A little insulting but then I am not in the social circle here.--Amadscientist (talk) 00:20, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

You should try hard not to feel insulted. Perhaps you can forgive Sitush not directly notifying you? After all he replied to you in the same thread that you were posting in, with the edit summary "cmt to Amadscientist" and the opening line "Eh? Amadscientist, you have seen ...". Anyway the snag that Malleus describes is apparent when you do click on the notification drop-down, expecting to be taken to the comment on your talk page that triggered the notification. No such luck - and if anybody replies to a earlier post on a busy talk page, you end up having to do a search (or going to page history) just to find where it is. Today's programme is brought to you by the word "retrograde". --RexxS (talk) 01:12, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Are we reading the same talk page Amadscientist? Right above this section I see a discussion of parenthetical commas, a request to look at the article on Tyntesfield, a discussion about the final tidying up of the Middle Ages article before FAC, another on the American automobile industry in the 1950s article pre-GAN, ... I could go on and on, but my point is that if anyone has the right to feel insulted it most certainly isn't you. Malleus Fatuorum 01:23, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

You should see my talk page, Amadscientist. It's like a pub where a bunch of deaf guys are yelling at each other and they ran out of beer hours ago. It's not a social circle anymore, just a bunch of anti-social dots. Malleus, I'm trying to teach Sippi how to play "Paperback Writer" on the guitar. I'm afraid I won't be retiring on her talent. And I feel the same way about the orange bar and its clickability. BTW, I had someone's revert of an edit of mine show up in the little notification thing. I hope it doesn't keep track of everything on my watchlist--that's thousands of articles, and a coordinated set of changes could bring OKeyes down in a heartbeat. Drmies (talk) 01:31, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps her talent lies elsewhere. How is she with fixing household appliances, or car electricals? I'm currently stripping down my dishwasher to try and discover why the water isn't heating up, could she help with that? Malleus Fatuorum 01:40, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I just read Wikipedia:Notifications, and now I actually know what I was guessing at earlier. She does like messing with tools, Malleus. Your heating element must be either malfunctioning, or a connection to it is broken (there wouldn't be a separate fuse for it, I suppose). I learned the hard way, today, that wires do break. Drmies (talk) 02:28, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

There was some fun in here. Not a lot of traffic in the FA review. Silence = consent? Drmies (talk) 02:45, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

It's a Bosch, and I've learned from looking around the Internet that there's a common fault with the soldering in the control block, so that's the first thing I need to look at. The FA review is indeed disappointingly quiet, obviously not much interest in ancient science fiction. Malleus Fatuorum 15:23, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Malleus, I left a note on the article talk page, "FAC review is now go". Drmies (talk) 22:16, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

I've only just noticed that notifications thing. What does it do and if I don't like it, how do I get rid of it? Parrot of Doom 16:36, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Per this comment there is a script that brings the orange bar back, which can be seen here. Useight's Public Sock (talk) 20:31, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Orange popups

When I was a kid at a pool on a hot summer day, with the sunlight shimmering on the waves, the orange creamsicle was a treat. It is a pity that the article has no revealing image. blah Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:59, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

When I was a kid at the pool on a hot day it was the swimsuits that became almost transparent when they got wet that caught my attention ... I've said enough. Malleus Fatuorum 23:06, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Lol, I guess you spent a lot of time underwater ... Chaosdruid (talk) 06:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Forgot

1684 German edition

1659 German edition

...to put in an edit summary. What do you think? Someone at the graphics lab made this for me. I'm not happy with the placement, though. Drmies (talk) 03:03, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

• What if we move the cover of the second edition down to the "Dating evidence" section? Drmies (talk) 03:06, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

  Good idea, I've just done that. Malleus Fatuorum 03:42, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

• Excellent. Now, can you write up Louis Davids? Aren't you shocked we don't have an article on him yet? And isn't it six AM where you're at? What's for breakfast? Drmies (talk) 03:50, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

  No, it's just coming up to 5 am. And breakfast is bacon, sausage, eggs and baked beans. I'm getting ready to take off for the weekend, so I probably won't be back to help until Sunday evening at the earliest. Look after the shop while I'm gone. Malleus Fatuorum 03:57, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, that does look good. It would be fun to have a good picture of him and his gansas. We could cut from the title page and enlarge. You know, there's a different image in that German facsimile, very odd. I've taken pictures. Baked beans? For breakfast? Sheesh. Drmies (talk) 04:07, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
• My iPhone distorts straight lines, obviously, and I don't know why the image is rotated. Maybe Crisco, who thinks he's so smart and must be in a bad mood tonight, can take care of it. Anyway, I could scan these flatter and better--but I wanted you to see how different these images are. I suppose that engravings were freely copied and redone. Drmies (talk) 04:35, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

  I like the second of those images in particular, and we could surely find a place for that. Maybe you're unfamiliar with one of the staples of our diet here in the UK, baked beans in tomato sauce? Anyway, I must leave you now, toodle pip. Malleus Fatuorum 06:49, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

  Drmies, did you need a crop? Let's see... 11 May... I was expanding Lie Kim Hok. Not particularly angry. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:15, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

• I fixed (sort of) the first one although much information has been lost due to the non-flat page and light washing out some of the image. Let me know if you'd like me to do the same with the second one. Parrot of Doom 08:21, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

  If you could do the same with the second one that would be great, thanks. Malleus Fatuorum

  • And I just realised that had my mother kept her maiden name, I'd share the same name as Godwin's father. How odd. Parrot of Doom 08:24, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
    • PoD, thanks, but don't waste your time: I'll scan it properly on Monday. I might even try and do it today, if I make it to the office. Drmies (talk) 13:24, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
      • This proved a lot more difficult than I thought. I may not even get it done today--I have one poor scan, and one of the opposite page. Drmies (talk) 14:24, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
      • OK, I got it done anyway: higher quality image are uploaded to Commons, though I don't yet see that higher quality here. Drmies (talk) 14:55, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Mustela putorius furo rex

"Dad, are we there yet?"

For all your hard work — and not just on WP it would seem...

I'm simultaneously greatly impressed and highly amused.

Hillbillyholiday ^talk 08:33, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Cute picture. Which I guess means you know I do a lot of work for ferret welfare? So you know who I am in real life? Malleus Fatuorum 00:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, you're the "Mighty Eric", you have your full name on your userpage! Hillbillyholiday ^talk 00:57, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

What point are you trying to make? Malleus Fatuorum 01:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

I noticed that you seemed to be a prominent figure in the fight against ferret cruelty, and wanted to say that I was impressed is all, I respect that greatly. I thought I'd find the cutest picture I could and leave a vaguely cryptic message, rather than go into as much detail as I am doing now. Hillbillyholiday ^talk 02:51, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

You give me too much credit. I just do what little I can. Malleus Fatuorum 11:44, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Gentlemen, start your engines...

I just picked up this little jewel [5] and a number of other books that you would find interesting. We have a liquidator here that sells these kinds of books dirt cheap, but their stock varies wildly. While most of my collection is about American iron, this covers a lot of sweet rides from the 60s on, like the Maserati Bora, Ferrari Boxer, Lamborghini Countach, Jaguar XJ220 and a couple dozen more recent supercars. A bit fluffy but informative stuff. Lots to choose from, going to be a fun summer. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 02:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

We have much to do. Malleus Fatuorum 02:19, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I've jumped on Maserati Bora just to format the refs, and I will add some info later tonight from the book. Not committing to take it to GA yet, but it is simple and small enough, as well as infrequently edited, that at least some good could come of a little attention. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 15:35, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

That's a worthy choice, but the article seems very lightweight and is going to need some considerable expansion I think. Who knows, you may even make the fabled five-times expansion with it. I was thinking about the Lamborghini Miura myself, but there are still a few things I need to finish off with the Tiger before I go looking for another car article. Malleus Fatuorum 17:28, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

It's just something to do, no commitment. Worse case scenario, we play with it a few days in our spare time and make it better that it was. I did get a laugh from your "tut tut" summary, not something I hear very often. Give me a break, I'm at work dealing with customers on the phone all day, plus dealing with ANI issues. It's a wonder I'm making complete sentences with all the distractions I have going on. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 19:26, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I've been toying with the idea of getting every car I've owned up to GA; I bet my list would a lot different from yours, as the only American car I've ever owned is a Jeep Grand Cherokee, which is in the drive right now next to the Jag. I'm led to believe that some Americans don't like the Jeeps, but ours has been great, although official Jeep parts are ferociously expensive over here in the UK. Malleus Fatuorum 19:32, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

The old jeeps were exceptional, unbeatable as utility vehicles and almost indestructable. The new ones are...ok. Back then, no one else hardly made vehicles like that, except the Toyota Land Cruiser and Rover, both of which were somewhat rare here. Then they made them "pretty". Now there are many to choose from in that category. Oh, and part of what I liked about the Maserati article was its sparseness. It is easier to dig from scratch than fix what is broken and possibly wrong. At least for me. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 19:50, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

We were very impressed with the Jeep after we hired one in LA to drive up to Lake Tahoe to go skiing, so when I wrote off our Toyota Rav it seemed like a good choice. Malleus Fatuorum 20:58, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

• A 1974 Ford Pinto was one of my favorite cars. I street raced it a great deal, as silly as that sounds, and thrashed that car to no end until I finally totaled it. You could jerk the steering wheel to the side, jerk up on the emergency brake while holding the lock button in, and 180° the car on a dime. Rev it, pop the clutch and go. With some practice, this can be done in one fluid motion using all four limbs, a task that was mastered with a degree of pride, I might add. A teenager's version of the Big Wheel [6], it was (almost) indestructible. The ugly little beasty will always have a special place in my heart. As I said before, cars were so cheap they were disposable, and we treated them as such. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 20:18, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Health and Morals of Apprentices Act 1802

Hallo,

I have been informed that you are the person to go to for help when improving the grammar of articles? I've done as much as I can on this article and would appreciate as much help as possible. I would also like to know if it meets the good criteria and what improvements are needed to get it there?

I have noticed on this talk page that you get a lot of requests like this so if you are too busy on your own projects I won't be offended if you don't respond.

Thanks very much =) Staceydolxx (talk) 08:29, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I couldn't resist, it's very interesting (at least to me) but I'm sure MF will be a better guide than I am. J3Mrs (talk) 11:54, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Interesting indeed. Malleus Fatuorum 12:11, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I'll have a proper read through later, but I've got four initial observations given you're looking to take this article to GA.

• The lead is a little on the short side to adequately summarise the article.
• You're using "act" throughout the article except for in the "Contents of the Act" section heading. My slight preference is to use "Act" throughout, but you need to be consistent. In this case though I think that the section header perhaps ought to simply say "Contents" or "Provisions" would be better, as what else would you be talking about other than the contents of the act?
• I'd like to see some kind of explanation of what malignant fever was, or was thought to be.
• "In 1800 there were 20,000 apprentices working in cotton mills and the enclosed conditions and close contact within factories allowed diseases to spread rapidly leading public opinion to suggest that working conditions needed to improve for children." That sentence is too long without some kind of punctuation, and it's a bit puzzling why it starts off talking about cotton mills but then switches to factories.

Other than that it looks pretty close to meeting the GA criteria to me on a first quick read through. Malleus Fatuorum 12:11, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I probably haven't done it in the best way, but I've added a note to state that the malignant fever was apparently the same as "jail fever" or "ship fever", i.e. typhus. If anyone thinks it could be better written or cleverly incorporated into the article, please do go ahead and do so! Worm^TT(talk) 12:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

• One more before I shoot off; the authors listed in ref #19 don't look right to me. Malleus Fatuorum 13:15, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

• Indeed--and the way it's cited suggests that the section by the judge and the other person should be cited as a chapter in a book: in the "cite book" template is a heading for "chapter", which should have the title of that section; the page numbers should be given for that section as well. This format does not allow to (easily) cite the page number for the specific citation, though. No version that I could see on Google Books has a chapter listing so I can't fix it. 16:53, 17 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drmies (talk • contribs)

Curious as why this is in the WP:WikiProject Greater Manchester. This was a national act of parliamrnt that affect the entire country? thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.153.215.147 (talk) 17:55, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I imagine because the outbreak that triggered the investigation that resulted in the Act of Parliament occurred in Peel's factory in Radcliffe. But why are you asking me? Malleus Fatuorum 18:35, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's why I put a GM banner on it. :) J3Mrs (talk) 18:40, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Maybe I own the GM project now, and someone forgot to tell me. BTW, someone was asking after you on the Chorlton-cum-Hardy talk page. Malleus Fatuorum 18:45, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Gosh, I'm a redlink, what could I have been up to at Chorlton-cum-Hardy?

That'll remain our little secret. Mum's the word. Malleus Fatuorum 19:07, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Well....

Middle Ages isn't doing too badly. But I find I'm having a lot less enthusiasm for Crusades and working it up to GA or FA status. I think I'll go back to the Normans and stick there... I've never really liked the Crusades. Eventually Norman conquest of England will finish up at A-class Mil-hist review and be able to go to FAC. And I've got to get back to Battle of Hastings. If I can just get motivated on Harold Godwinson, I'd have a nice little good topic going... Ealdgyth - Talk 19:31, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and I've got another bad-boy cleric coming along ... Roger Norreis. He's a "fun" guy... should be fun to dig up some of the quotes about his behavior for the FA workup! Ealdgyth - Talk 19:32, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

To be honest Ealdgyth it's going far better than I'd imagined possible. Oh, and I've been watching a re-run of that BBC TV series on the Normans. Fascinating subject. Malleus Fatuorum 19:37, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

And in the meantime I'm working on some really important stuff, the Sunbeam Tiger. I've got an itch to try and get a car article up to FAC, but reliable sourcing is proving strangely problematic. I've done witch trials, novels, hoaxes, settlements, peat bogs and God knows what else, so a car would be good to add to that. I think workhouse might be the next one up though, once I've integrated the material PoD has dug up on the treatment of the dead. For some reason I've struggled with the structure of that article right from the off. Malleus Fatuorum 19:43, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I know the feeling on structure - I've got issues with it on Crusades. So much easier to deal with a biography - they sorta structure themselves. What I know about fine cars is pretty slim - first hubby wanted a Lotus so I had to go to the dealership a couple million times to drool. I prefer pickups, myself. More practical. Ealdgyth - Talk 19:59, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Hopefully he didn't buy one, as they spend more time in the garage than they do on the road. Or as he's your ex-hubby maybe you take some quiet satisfaction in knowing that. Malleus Fatuorum 20:06, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

No, we didn't buy one. (And he's only an ex in that he died.... lesson from that .. don't smoke. Lung cancer is not pretty and it's not fun to die before your child is 12). Ealdgyth - Talk 20:13, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh gosh, I feel like a schmuk now for having assumed you were divorced. I've never smoked, and I hate it and all its paraphernalia, but my my wife smokes far more than is good for her. We once had a deal that I'd become vegetarian if she'd stop smoking, she was that convinced I couldn't live without meat. I actually found it quite easy, but she cracked after three days. Malleus Fatuorum 20:20, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

It's been long enough (and I've remarried, obviously) that it's not a big gaping wound, so don't worry. Not to say I don't miss him, but... time does at least heal over all wounds. Jack could never have quit. He was still smoking the day he actually died. However, the first thing I insisted on with hubby #2 when we started getting serious was that he quit. And he's been quit for 9 years. I don't think I could give up meat - I like the occasional steak too much, but we have cut back our meat eating a good bit. My weakness is carbs - I could never go on a paleo diet... ugh! Ealdgyth - Talk 20:41, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I've just seen an American TV news report about lots of schools in the southern states of America having separate white and black proms, as apparently the law doesn't prohibit that kind of racist bollocks. What the fuck is that all about? Does middle America still live in the Middle Ages? Malleus Fatuorum 01:01, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Having lived in the south for 19 years, I think that's bullshit. I've never heard of that.. it's always possible that there are a few weird spots, but ... it's also possible that they are privately organized. Keep in mind the media likes to exaggerate as well as assume that some aberation is the "normal". That would hardly be "normal" is the vast majority of the US. For that matter, I live in the Bible Belt and my son just had a speech in his high school from an openly lesbian fellow student about being lesbian. So it's not nearly so neanderthal around here as is sometimes protrayed overseas. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:12, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I haven't seen that, although we do have all black colleges and dorms, but it is only legal if the black students request it. It is an odd situation, as that still sounds like racism to me, just of a different type. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:14, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

You simply wouldn't be allowed to do anything like that here. Weird that it's allowed in the US. Malleus Fatuorum 01:55, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

The one I heard about a few months ago was a prom segregated in a practical manner (don't know if that's the same one linked below; the transcript didn't make that clear) and apparently there were others like it: the white parents and students organize a private prom, in some hotel or restaurant, and don't go to the school prom. A lot of segregation is self-segregation, I suppose, certainly on the white side. Ealdgyth, there's bible belt and Bible Belt; I think I live in the latter--or, at best, that latter starts just outside city limits. Or, to cite an example of historical/geographical segregation, compare the statistics (population and income) between Lowndesboro, Alabama with White Hall, Alabama, which is just up the road from Lowndesboro. In Montgomery, it's a set of statistics combined with historical developments (including desegregation and the attendant rise in private schools with, most recently, white flight, coupled with a tax system heavily skewed toward sales tax) that keeps black schools and neighborhoods black. The recent economic downturn hasn't helped either. Drmies (talk) 05:04, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

The report is on BBC News right now Ealdgyth, but maybe you can't get that in the US? The story was actually about two students, one black one white, who raised money on the Internet to put on the first racially integrated prom their school had ever had. It happened in Georgia, and was reported by ABC News.[7] Malleus Fatuorum 01:53, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Don't get the BBC here and it isn't on their website, I will have to look that up tomorrow. I live between Greensboro (Greensboro sit-ins) and Charlotte (Swann v. Charlotte-Mecklenburg Board of Education), so it is safe to say that this part of the country is integrated, and I believe that forcing separate proms for blacks and whites goes against a whole slew of laws, literally dozens of them, including the 1964 Civil Rights Act, so pardon if I'm a little skeptical until I hear more. There has to be more to that story, or that city would be full of protestors and lawyers. Now, if you want to discriminate against gays and lesbians, well that is perfectly legal most places here, except the military (finally). Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:09, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I read about that a couple of weeks ago. Apparently they had their integrated prom, and it went well. I agree that it is sad that something like race would still be an issue...Go Phightins! 02:13, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

It's a damn sight more than "sad". It's offensive in the extreme that US law apparently allows racially segregated proms. Malleus Fatuorum 02:17, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I've always been under the impression that proms aren't officially sponsored by the school, and as such are private gatherings with guests determined by whomever the host is...I imagine that this was one of those things that has been one way for so long and no one ever bothered to change it, but good for the kids who did. Go Phightins! 02:20, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I was labouring under the illusion that this was 2013, but maybe it's 1913 in the US? Malleus Fatuorum 02:36, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

No country is perfect! There is love everywhere! Segregated prom is an old tradition that is dying off now....just a latent oddity that no longer makes any sense, but has held on in a few isolated spots due more to tradition than actual bigotry. Some things on both sides of the pond don't makes sense to us...United States Census of 1890 lists 3,273 African Americans who claimed to be Confederate veterans.--MONGO 03:18, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

It is on the BBC's web site Dennis, just do a search on "proms". Malleus Fatuorum 02:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Heard about that and I certainly was amazed that such a thing still happens. Doubt it was motivated out of racism, though. More likely it was just continuing the classic American tradition of laziness. For us ignunt 'Murricans wanting to know more, here's what dem liberal commies at the New York Times reported about it.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 03:57, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

It's been in the article Wilcox County High School for a while - I remember being amazed at it while stub-sorting the article early in April. 2013 and that sort of thing still happens (well, happened till this year) in the "land of the free". Wow. PamD 07:57, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Malleus,

Swedish television loves to show documentaries about the Klu Klux Klan in the USA, where they profile e.g. an old man whose daughter had been raped by a Black man and who is filled with hate, and who is pitied by the other residents, including the Sheriff. A subvariety of "Orientalism", perhaps. Let's remember that REM and the B52s come from Georgia.Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:08, 10 May 2013 (UTC) Moved from my talk page following unblock. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:45, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Gibbet of Montfaucon

This, which I've just expanded a bit, might be up your street. You'll see the medieval French didn't leave their ex-chancellors hanging around to make nuisances of themselves on Newsnight, just hanging around. There's tons more in the French article. Johnbod (talk) 20:42, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

A device for industrial-scale executions, very nice. Malleus Fatuorum 20:49, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Now that's the kind of article DYK should be showcasing. The French article (via Google translate) doesn't seem to explain why the gibbet was dismantled, is there any clue to that in the sources? Nev1 (talk) 14:33, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

No, I had difficulties finding any sources after 1880 (in English), though the place later turned into a truly ghastly dumping ground for offal from the meat markets, dead donkeys etc etc, finally cleared up in the mid-19th century after decades of complaints as posh housing got nearer & nearer. Several modern English historians have covered this period lovingly and at length. Now it's near the HQ of the French Communist Party. Johnbod (talk) 14:40, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Congratulations

On your new account name. --John (talk) 19:31, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

I wish I'd done it sooner John. Eric Corbett (talk) 22:03, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Eric Corbett

Yes, I moved all of Malleus Fatuorum's files over to Eric Corbett's user space, and no, this isn't outing on a scale never before seen in the history of Wikipedia :-) Malleus had already disclosed his real name on his user page previously. Malleus wanted the name change but technical difficulties due to the number of his edits required some creative SUL work by CU/Crat WilliamH (thank you Will) to usurp this name, and I mashed a button to make everything move over here, so the entire histories would be intact. Since the name can't be moved to having too many edits, Malleus Eric has indicated that he will abandon the old account and start using this new account. For all intent and purposes, this should be treated as one editor using two user names consecutively. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 19:33, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

• Interesting turn of events to say the least, Dennis. While I for one will miss the Hammer of Fools persona, I look forward to meeting Englishman Eric Corbett, extraordinary editor. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
  • "A rose by any other name..." and all that. I've known his as Eric for some time now, only his name here has changed. There is no persona to him, he is quite real. Haven't gotten to meet him in the flesh yet, although I'm hoping I can make it and do so at Wikimania 2014. I owe him a couple of pints. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 20:27, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

    I've met Sitush, Iridescent, Richerman, RexxS and quite a few others in real life, so I am quite real, as I'm sure they'd verify. Eric Corbett (talk) 02:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Interesting decision Malleus, I mean Eric....♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 09:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

GA OK

Thanks for your help with Sharpe, Paley and Austin, now a GA. List of works by Sharpe and Paley seems to be progressing satisfactorily at FLC, too. Like your name! --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 20:08, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

I read that article properly earlier today. I never thought that I could find much of interest to me regarding architecture but, hey, it interested me. Reward yourself with a sausage or an egg. Good stuff. - Sitush (talk) 20:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Can't I have a sausage AND and an egg? Cheers, and thanks for the comment. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 11:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Welcome!

Some cookies to welcome you!

Welcome to Wikipedia, Eric Corbett! Thank you for your contributions. I am KumiokoCleanStart and I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Wikipedia:Questions or type {{helpme}} at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• Introduction
• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• How to write a great article

Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); that will automatically produce your username and the date. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Kumioko (talk) 20:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Just wanted to welcome you as a new user. :-)Kumioko (talk) 20:40, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for following up your question on my talk, and being bold ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

WHOAAA ....

Ummm .. I knew this was a thought - but I wasn't expecting it. No complaints or anything like that ... just caught me by surprise a bit. Best of luck Eric. — Ched :  ?  21:35, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Ched. This has been on my mind for some time, but as this user name was taken I didn't think it would be possible until Dennis and WiliamH sorted it out yesterday. I'm not ashamed of anything I've done here on Wikipedia, and I'm not ashamed to put my real name behind it. Eric Corbett (talk) 22:12, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

I used User:Pharmboy for two years before changing. It was a positive change that made it easier to be true to myself, and always willing to stand behind everything I do, even the mistakes. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 00:13, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Well, I for one don't like change, and this will be difficult for me, "Eric". Drmies (talk) 01:05, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• I'm with you. I've had some close friends change their names on me, and I always hated it but "had to" honor their wishes. You could call him "Eric aka MF".--Bbb23 (talk) 01:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  You old guys, sitting on your porches, yelling at the kids to get off your lawn, telling them to turn down their loud rock and roll, hating change in any form.... You will adjust in time. ;-) Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 01:27, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  Anyone who emailed me knew what my real name was anyway. Besides, I think Eric is a fluffier name than Malleus. Slightly. Eric Corbett (talk) 02:28, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

"Fluffier", really, nothing fluffy about a Viking ruler. J3Mrs (talk) 09:21, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Especially not Eric Bloodaxe. The only thing that's changed is my user name, not my attitude. Eric (talk) 12:58, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Try having a name where the most common comparison as a child was this guy. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 13:00, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Heh. Darling Nikki was what I always got compared to in high school. THAT wasn't much fun to live with! Ealdgyth - Talk 13:16, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Dare I ask why? Eric (talk) 13:21, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Counting to 12 on one hand

Everyone is welcome, although with apologies to Eric Corbett, Esq, of this Manor for raising it here.Forelock is being tugged; the rent has been sent via donkey, my lord, etc.

I've been in a discussion at the India Project noticeboard and it has raised a completely unrelated and rather fascinating aside. Well, fascinating to an ignorant muggins like me. Basically, it is a method to count to 12 on one hand but I've since been thinking about it and have gone direct to the person who mentioned it. We're both coming up with unsubstantiated musings relating to pre-decimal currency, time divisions etc and, well, it is just curious. I could take this to the Help Desk but, imo, this talk page is the Help Desk and since Vigyani has no issues with people weighing-in on their talk page, please do feel free to add your 2d. Doubtless someone will point out that it wus the Egyptians wot dun it. - Sitush (talk) 01:30, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

You can count up to 32 on the fingers of one hand if you're using binary, so 12 isn't much of a stretch. Eric Corbett (talk) 02:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't know who this new user is and what all the fuss is about. Given that 90% of his edits so far have been to his own talkpage, I think it is clear that he is "not here to build an encyclopedia".. Hillbillyholiday ^talk

You ain't seen nuthin' yet. Eric (talk) 03:12, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Eric.. It is using decimal system (instead of binary). The thing is people in old times must have been more familiar with decimal then binary. And counting 12 is done by 4 fingers into 3 division of each finger (metacarpals, proximal phalanges and intermediate phalanges) due to two lines on each finger when seen palmer side. Then the question was assuming that 12 would have been a special number for early civilizations (assuming they had same hand anatomy :p), does it have any connection with 12 inches in a feet, 12 hour system (24 hour if u take both hand), and Sitush mentioned an old British currency system. --Vigyani_talk^{ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} 13:45, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Fwiw, the Ancient Egyptians employed a binary system for multiplication and division. And the Chinese mucked about with it a fair bit. -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 13:51, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Middle Ages ... err.. help.

Can you copy edit the newly added section in the High Middle Ages in the Political States section? I'm not sure why it's hard to understand that you add sources when you add information, but apparantly this isn't something that admins have to bother with. They can just drop unsourced information (including some that duplicated information elsewhere in the article) into articles that are at FAC and I guess it's my job to figure out where they got the information from. Also add images that lack source information and duplicate images already there... Oh, yeah, let me know if there are things in the latest additions to the FAC page that I need to deal with... I looked and they mostly looked like grammar issues - which you really don't want me messing with. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:27, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

This is turning out to be a bit of a marathon – I hope nobody else comes along with a long list of things that need attention. Most of the issues outstanding do seem to be with grammar or phrasing though, so I'm working through those. Malleus Fatuorum 22:25, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I always put "the" in front of Magna Carta--am I doing so against common usage? Drmies (talk) 17:31, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

That's a question I will most definitely leave to Ealdgyth to answer definitively, but my own uninformed opinion is that there should be no "the" in front of Magna Carta. In part at least because it's Latin, and there's no "the" in Latin, it's implied. Malleus Fatuorum 18:40, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Both are common, and I wouldn't say either is wrong. The British Library don't here. Often "Magna Carta" is used to mean things like "the political crisis that lead up to the signing of Magna Carta". I think either "the Magna Carta" or "Magna Carta" are fine, not sure about "the Magna Carta" - which follows on from Malleus Eric's point. Johnbod (talk) 02:17, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I think we all agree that the use of "signing" in connection with Magna Carta is more objectionable than that of the definite article... Wait, we don't? Waltham, The Duke of 12:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Greetings, Eric

Hello Eric,

I commend you for abandoning anonymity. I have been thinking about this issue today, while reading about the User:Qworty debacle. Like Carrite (Tim Davenport), I openly reveal my real name, Jim Heaphy, and where I live, American Canyon, California. It may not be the best decision for every editor, but I recommend openness for those who can be open, which indicates a willingness to accept personal responsibility. I wish you well. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:05, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I obviously agree. I very rarely get involved with BLPs, for instance, but it's long seemed to me to be absurd that anonymous editors are allowed to write whatever they like, while the subject of the article is smacked down for trying to correct it. I doubt this user name change will make any difference, but I wanted to strike a blow for openness and honesty. I've done nothing here I'm ashamed of. Eric (talk) 04:14, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I know we haven't got along in the past, but I just wanted to pop by and commend you like others have. I wish you all the best. Steven Zhang ^{Help resolve disputes!} 12:25, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Steven. That we haven't always got along in the past doesn't mean we can't sometimes get along in the future. Eric (talk) 13:03, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't know if that applies to me, but if so, I'd be glad for it. AutomaticStrikeout  ?  20:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm actually a very easy person to get along with, but if you piss me off I'll let you know. I don't recall that we've had any major fallouts, which may perhaps reveal one of my weaknesses. I recognise your user name of course, but I've got no idea whether that's because we've worked together on an article or because we've fallen out somewhere. I've simply got no memory for or interest in the the WP bullshit. Eric (talk) 20:51, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• I don't see how we could divvy up Wikipedia in two sections, BLPs and everything else. Anonymous editing (low threshold) is one of the reasons for the project's success. Obviously great(er) care needs to be given to BLPs; one of the problems here was that Qworty had built a reputation, a pretty decent one (at least for some of the BLP restrictionists, if there is such a word/concept), and abused that trust. Whatever doubts there were were not usefully channeled. I am still unsure why there were no repercussions after the first SPI. I'm also not sure why editors who were on to him earlier didn't raise a ruckus, or how it was that I missed it. But greater vigilance will not, of course, prevent all such deviousness. Amazon moved years ago to a "real name" setup (don't know if you heard of the scandal; it was quite similar to the Qworty stink, with authors and their friends posting positive reviews) and that seemed to have worked for them. But apparently we have some 200,000 regular editors--that's a lot faxed driver's licenses to San Francisco, with the attendant security problems. I don't know, Malleus. I'm seriously disturbed still. Drmies (talk) 18:30, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Relations

How closely are you related to Stephen Colbert or Olga Korbut? ;) Kiefer.Wolfowitz 07:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Nah, I'd place him as a connection of Sooty! PamD 10:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Not at all. Nothing to do with Harry H. Corbett of Sooty fame either. Eric Corbett (talk) 12:51, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

But if you pull out a comfy brown chair, wearing glasses and starting a monologue on some anecdote or other then we'll all be worried....Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:07, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

You're closer with that, as I've actually met Ronnie and we had a few drinks together in his dressing room. Eric Corbett 13:17, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Sharpe, Paley and Austin

Hi Malleus Fatuorum, I gather that you don't like my new comma. Pyrotec (talk) 17:50, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

No, but I hadn't noticed you'd undertaken the review, so rest assured I won't be interfering again. Malleus Fatuorum 18:02, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh "Interfere" as much as you like, its not going to upset my review. I thought I was right about the comma, but I know better than to argue with you over grammar. Its not my strong topic, but it does interest me, as I'm somewhat half-heartedly learning Latin and Castilian Spanish (I prefer Catalan), I tried Norwegian several decades ago, and I see common roots (and "false friends"). Pyrotec (talk) 18:38, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Blimey, I just scanned through that article and thought of the fabled transport cafe menus. You know the ones:

• Sausage, egg and chips
• Sausage and egg
• Sausage and chips
• Egg and chips
• Sausage
• Egg
• Chips

Etc. - Sitush (talk) 21:30, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I could take you to a transport cafe in Wigan that serves a great curry for £3.95, probably more than even you could eat. Malleus Fatuorum 21:44, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Could? You should! I have a some donated funds that still require disbursement in a social setting. Imagine being sat in a Wigan transport cafe, wearing an "I edit Wikipedia" shirt, scoffing a curry and a pint of tea, with the locals and the less-so gawping. What's not to like? Mind, finding the funds to travel a few miles up the motorway might be tricky at the mo - I am back on the list of wasted talent, alas. - Sitush (talk) 00:40, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Unemployed do you mean? I've been there. Malleus Fatuorum 18:53, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes. I'm almost permanently one of the number, although I had some full-time work over the last three months and thus reduced my deficit to slightly less than that of Greece. Technically, I am self-employed but in reality that means < I would get on the dole & amounts to only a very few hours per week. Idiot disability resettlement officers, or whatever they now call themselves, have much to answer for. Still, look at all the time it gives me to get into arguments about matters Indian. - Sitush (talk) 19:01, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

I was self-employed for more than 15 years after the last time I was made redundant. I had some very good years and some not so good, but overall I was better off than when I was employed. It was hard work though. Eric (talk) 13:12, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Being able to use the phone and to participate fully in meetings would help but there is no point in carping on about it, so I won't ;) - Sitush (talk) 00:07, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

My brother got meningitis about 20 years ago, which left him completely deaf and blind in one eye, so I know where you're coming from. Eric Corbett 00:23, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

FAC review?

Hi Eric. I gather you're probably pretty busy, but I have an article that is at FAC at present and I was wondering if you had some time if you could take a look over it and let me know what you think? I know this your area of expertise (and definitely not mine :-)). The FAC is at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Martha Logan/archive1, if you're too busy I understand. Regards, Steven Zhang ^{Help resolve disputes!} 05:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm afraid that's a long way from being an FA Steven. Eric Corbett 14:33, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Self-centred Self-congratulatory NOnsense

That's eNOUGH — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.149.120.91 (talk) 21:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Enough of what asshole? Eric Corbett 21:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Please stop attacking other editors. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. "I think you should have asked for a larger T-shirt. ;-)" Look, I intend to lose some weight this summer. These personal attacks are NOT helping. Drmies (talk) 00:21, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I'd just go for the larger T-shirt, much easier. Eric Corbett 00:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

You sound so much like my wife, it's not even funny. Which reminds me--I think you've seen the German frontispiece I added to TMitM. That book has the German one as well, but adding that is overdoing it, isn't it. Or does the French one have a greater claim, since the German translation is based on it? Drmies (talk) 00:40, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I think the frontispiece you added looks great. Eric Corbett 00:52, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

By Jove...

I think we've (almost) got it. (crosses fingers). Ealdgyth - Talk 02:37, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Whenever you have time

Whenever you have time, would greatly appreciate further input on the story. Thanks, and regards,--Dwaipayan (talk) 04:14, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Your signature

Hallo Eric, Have you noticed that there's also a User:Eric, with whom you might be confused if you use your short signature? He's a currently active editor, and someone's already alerted him to your namechange and new sig. PamD 22:16, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• I think we need a contest: Create Eric a new sig, and the one he picks get's Eric's help on a GA of their choice ;-) Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 22:19, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  Everything seems so difficult here, but I wouldn't want User:Eric to get blamed for my indiscretions. Eric (talk) 22:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• I was thinking either ʇʇǝqɹoɔ ɔıɹǝ or using an anagram: Bite Correct. I noticed when I searched Google for "anagram" it asked me "did you mean NAG A RAM?". Nice... Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 22:26, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Perhaps Eric Corbett (talk) because of your colorful personality . Just kidding (come to think of it, I think templates are discouraged and that's probably too long anyway). By the way, congrats on the user name change, though it will be odd having to write "Eric" instead of "Malleus". Go Phightins! 22:34, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  Pink doesn't suit my devilishly red eyes. Eric Corbett 22:48, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• It was going to be yellow, but that didn't show up. You could mess with the colors. Go Phightins! 23:03, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

How about EricCo? It is simple and stylish.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 22:42, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

That has bad connotations I won't bore you with. Eric Corbett 22:50, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• Or EC . User EC isn't active, and that is a peaceful color. Nice and short. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 22:47, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  Looks good, I may go with that. Eric Corbett 22:50, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• EriC Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 22:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Eric, I like the simple blue "Eric Corbett" best. Nice that I can write Eric now, I always had a problem to address Malleus ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:00, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• That would have been my first suggestion, even though it lacks panache.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 23:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  What's panache? Eric Corbett 23:45, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

• £ric Corbett is panache. ;-) Or €ric Corbett Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 00:07, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• Ok, that first one is pretty boss.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 00:10, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• I think that first one adds the right amount of panache and identity as well. I really didn't think the second one would fly, but it was too easy a fit to not show it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 00:17, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• Two things I did not expect were Malleus changing his username and then colorizing his signature. I must say that I like Dennis's first suggestion above. AutomaticStrikeout  ?  02:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

  "£ric" is a real no-no. I wish I could have simply changed my username, but that was impossible apparently. Which gives you some idea about the clunky database design WP is built on. What's bothering me now though is that since this usurpation of the Eric Corbett account I've done bugger all in the way of creating content. Maybe it's haunted and I've made a big mistake? Eric Corbett (talk) 02:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

  Strange that you should say that. Every time I click on my watchlist and visit here to check what's going on, I feel a noticeable drop in temperature. As if this was some kind of a 'cold spot' on the wiki. And while reading the various comments, I see - just out of the corner of my eye, too swift to really grasp the words - messages that feel as if they were left for some other user, some other Eric. I asked a friend of mine, Derek - who is an expert in these matters - to read this page, and he said: "Ey, ey, calm down, calm down, I felt something touch me on my shoulder... I felt something hit me... I heard like an 'arrggh'. What's that, Sam? A name beginning with 'E'?" etc. Definitely something strange afoot. That, or you've just been a lazy bastard this weekend. Keri (talk) 03:07, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

  Well, you're just fucking around with colors and cutesey verbiage when you could have written Frans van Eemeren a thousand times. Some of us are giving up their lives for the greater good of the community by running for office, you know, instead of being all "Oh I'm Eric look at me I'm a Viking with green letters oh maybe I'm a Green Knight". So there. As for that email you got too: I chose not to stick too much in there; that the title would have come from Lily is impossible to prove, and our "context" section was long enough already. BTW, EC would be kind of funny (not just because Eric Clapton was God also) since it's CE--copyedit. And ECCE is appropriate now that you're no longer hiding behind that cool Hammer name. Drmies (talk) 04:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

  How do you know about the Lily email? Has Ottava been chatting with you as well? I tried running for office myself if you recall, and got slapped down. Eric Corbett (talk) 05:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

  We're both addressees there. I really did think about giving more context but figured we had enough; if you think it's of value to the "lunar speculation" section, we can add some, but I thought it best to stick (mostly) to scientific rather than literary speculation though I admit that there is hardly a clear line between the two. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:27, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

  Whatever you think is best. I'm very happy with the article as it is, I think we've done a great job. I continue to wish that Ottava was back and able to edit himself. There's just no way I'm going to get Ainsworth sorted out without him. Eric Corbett 14:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Trying to sniff out where Malleus has gone

What a shame the magnificent Malleus Fatuorum, that stupendous Wikipedia icon, has been caste aside and laid to rest. RIP. Malleus Fatuorum was not childish in the slightest degree, or alternatively all this stuff is child-like and what's wrong with that? What were you thinking Eric Corbett Esquire. Why not, at least, King Eric? Anyway, you've pulled the rug shielding the illusion. Now we have no hammer of fools, and damn it, we're that much the poorer for it. Still, it's entirely your call :) Best regards. --Epipelagic (talk) 06:47, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Please let the doggy also sniff for George Ponderevo, whose gentle ways and ability to learn are missed and needed, very much so, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:53, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Somebody expand Frans H. van Eemeren!! Green signature Eric? Who are you, David Fuchs, Lord of Green writing? ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 08:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Well done Ernst--thanks. I hadn't even seen the redirect with the middle initial in it. The guy really put argumentation theory on the Dutch map, and has an international reputation. Drmies (talk) 14:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Or maybe more in the mould this fearless megalomaniac: Frank Pick? 20.133.0.13 (talk) 10:07, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

• ǝric is my last idea before Drmies slaps me down for being frivolous. It's Monday, the whip has been cracked, so we must get back to writing it seems... Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 10:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

How about Eric Corbett as a signature?♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 14:53, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I quite like that. Eric Corbett 15:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Maybe Dr. Blofeld's Eric Corbett (markup) is a bit more stylish!? Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 06:38, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't like jazzy or over-bright signatures much, but I think a transitional form something like Eric (formerly Malleus Fatuorum) talk Corbett just for a few weeks would help less regular users, internet historians, vindictive but lazy admins etc. Johnbod (talk) 19:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

It would, but I guess the experience to be treated like a newbie (by bot and others) is an enlightening experiment worth pursuing further ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:37, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

May 2013

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a message letting you know that one of your recent edits to Middle Ages has been undone by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.

• ClueBot NG makes very few mistakes, but it does happen. If you believe the change you made was constructive, please read about it, report it here, remove this message from your talk page, and then make the edit again.
• For help, take a look at the introduction.
• The following is the log entry regarding this message: Middle Ages was changed by Eric Corbett (u) (t) ANN scored at 0.879147 on 2013-05-20T16:47:06+00:00 . Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 16:47, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The bot is an idiot. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:50, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Cluebot NG blocked 24 hours for incivility and personal attacks. Newyorkbrad (talk) 17:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't understand what I'm supposed to have done wrong. Vandalism? What the Hell is that all about? I've never vandalised any article, and I certainly wouldn't have started with this one; I was simply responding to a point raised at the FAC. Eric Corbett 17:11, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

My guess is new user (account) making style changes on a good article. Was it reported as a false positive? --kelapstick^(bainuu) 17:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

You may be right, I'd forgotten that I was a newbie. Eric Corbett 17:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I bet you are correct, Kelapstick. You have to pardon me if I find this whole event rather comical, in a cosmic sort of way. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 17:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

If it wasn't before, it is now. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 17:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

It's certainly interesting to see how new users are treated, even when they're only trying to be helpful. Eric Corbett 17:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps for a while you will be able to point to WP:BITE should any "difficulties" arise. - Sitush (talk) 17:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Do you think I'd get away with that? What I find quite curious is that since my renaming I've only made 64 edits, and hardly any to article space. There's something going on in my head that even I don't understand. On the other hand my book on the Sunbeam Tiger arrived today, so hopefully it'll soon be business as usual. Eric Corbett 17:51, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Can't think why but I am reminded of a Kenny Everett skit with the two Welsh Miners, and one says to the other, "Is Elton John his real name?", to which the other replies, "Is Elton John whose real name?" Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:08, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The change that was reverted looks like a change commonly made by vandals, if your edit count had been higher then it would have likely not been reverted. Due to the nature of the ANN - as explained on the bot's user page - false positives such as this are inevitable, the only way to improve accuracy is to report the false positives which we can use to train the bot. The bot's accuracy was approved by the BAG, after being tuned down a little to reduce the false positive rate. Try not to take it too personally, the time spent debating changes such as this could be spent on reviewing edits. - Damian Zaremba ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:12, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry Damian, but I'm forced to the conclusion that with a comment like "Try not to take it too personally, the time spent debating changes such as this could be spent on reviewing edits" you're only here to try and wind me up. Eric Corbett 21:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello, good evening, and welcome

I'm the bad boy formerly known as Malleus Fatuorum. I asked for a rename because I'd become increasingly uncomfortable about editing pseudonomyously, as I'm quite prepared to stand behind everything I write. Apparently though I've made too many edits for a rename to be possible, so ... I guess now there will be a race to see who can be the first admin to make a block on Malleus stick. Eric Corbett (talk) 21:59, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't it have made more sense to change your real name to MF? After all, you don't need a 'crat to do that.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:12, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Congratulations!Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:13, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Ermmm, Eric please see [8] love and best wishes, Graham. Graham Colm (talk) 22:17, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

@Bbb23 - lmao! Chaosdruid (talk) 12:59, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Malleus Fatuorum - You have been blocked forever and ever

Malleus Fatuorum, I spent a great deal of time planning for this day, and it is with great pleasure that I do what no other admin has been able to do: I have indef blocked your account in a way that will endure forever, stripped you of all advanced priveleges and removed your IP block exemption. May God have mercy on your soul. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 22:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

• I hope my fellow admin and editors will forgive me for this endulgance, I just couldn't resist after I blocked the old account for security reasons, at Eric's request. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 22:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

  Thanks Dennis, although anyone who'd want to impersonate me must have a screw loose. Do you get a medal? Eric (talk) 18:10, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  It has been eerily quiet, perhaps they don't believe it yet, or don't see the humor in it. And I might have given you too many permissions, like File Mover, as I just ticked everything off knowing you could be trusted with them. Ping me if you want them changed. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 18:51, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  Why would I want them changed? I want every right it's humanly possible to have. Eric (talk) 19:26, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  I ran out of boxes to check, so you will have to make due with those for now. :-) I know how frustrating it can be to not have the tools to do very basic stuff that a trusted user should be able to do. Even when I moved your page, I was able to move up to 100 subpages at the same time, including talk and subpages, with one click, something only admin can do. I would gladly trust you with those tools. Had you made the moves by yourself it would have taken an hour to do what I did in a minute. Those are the kinds of tools that you don't use often, but when you need them, you need them. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 19:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  I'd resigned myself to a boring couple of hours copying stuff over, but as you say the issue is one of trust; you're trusted and I'm not. Eric (talk) 19:40, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

  But we need to get back to work. Apparently I'm some kind of ferret expert according to Wikipediocracy, obviously a man of many talents. And generous with my time and money, which I didn't realise was a crime. Eric (talk) 19:45, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Let us say an Ave for Malleus the Great and Powerful, long did he reign, and whose fall will be told of in the books of wikilore for millennia to come. Long live the new King Eric!--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 22:03, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

		The Original Barnstar
		For stepping up and putting your money where your mouth is by losing the pseudonym. Boldly done! May you continue to contribute outstanding content and to hammer fools as appropriate (in a site-appropriate manner, of course!) Down with the Cult of Anonymity! —Tim Davenport, Corvallis, Oregon, USA /// Carrite (talk) 00:06, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

It's been on my mind for a while. I was interviewed for an upcoming book on Wikipedia last year, and I was asked what I'd prefer to be called should anything I said be included. It just seemed so childish to be referred to as Malleus Fatuorum. Eric Corbett (talk) 00:14, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Upcoming book? I think I know what a lot of people would prefer to call you and, alas, you can't just turn the hearing-aid off like I do :( If you want to be awkward, change your RL by deed poll (link above, somewhere) and then request that WilliamH & Dennis move things again. Otherwise, just carry on as before, doing what you do and how you do it. The name is not the man, so to speak. - Sitush (talk) 01:54, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I mastered the art of selective deafness many years ago, and it's stood me in good stead. Eric Corbett (talk) 02:16, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Eh? - Sitush (talk) 13:48, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

"Upcoming book"? This Eric fellow is clearly an American imposter... "Forthcoming book", surely - "upcoming" is "chiefly U.S.", says the OED. Best wishes for life out in the open, Eric. Bencherlite^Talk 09:00, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Nooooo! My userbox came true!!

MALLEUS FATUORUM
"... just fuck off."

Chaosdruid (talk) 13:02, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

comment

"Sometimes adults need to be allowed to disagree. Eric Corbett 22:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)"

Like

Still getting used to the real name thing though.

I'm wondering if you had any thoughts on this essay if you had a moment. It's not an article, and only a very first draft - but I'd be interested in your views since it is slightly related to what you recently posted. — Ched :  ?  00:03, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Great comment, very decent signature (much better for the colour-blind). I decorated my talk and user for Wagner's birthday, mostly black-and-white. I know you hate opera, - so did Wagner, he termed his works differently, for the drama ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:00, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to butt in, but that's one of my favorite Wagner eccentricities: When someone referred in his presence to one of his compositions as "opera", he would sneer, "My work is not opera, that's an Italian word." He thought of his work as combining all the arts -- musical, dramatic, visual, etc. -- into one all-encompassing artistic entity. But all opera does that, of course. Wagner was a bigot and a repugnant man, but he wrote magnificent music. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 15:12, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

It's curious that opera is now considered to be high art, when in Henry Fielding's time it was considered a low-brow intruder. Here's a nice quote from The Author's Farce: "In particular, Fielding mocks how contemporary audiences favoured Italian opera". Eric Corbett 16:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

There's a description somewhere, maybe a Flaubert novel, of the scene at a Verdi-era opera, where audience members are chatting during the arias, and hawkers are working the aisles selling snacks. "Hey, peanuts here! Get yer peanuts!" Can you imagine that at the Met? The first thing you notice (or at least that I noticed) at the Opera Garnier is how little of the interior space is the actual performance space -- most of it is hallways and lounges surrounding the theatre itself. In those days people went to the opera to network and to schmooze and to be seen -- the opera itself was a distraction. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 18:14, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

This is your last warning. If you vandalize Wikipedia again, as you did at Hengistbury Head, you may be blocked from editing without further notice.
Your edits have been automatically marked as vandalism and have been automatically reverted. The following is the log entry regarding this vandalism: Hengistbury Head was changed by Eric Corbett (u) (t) ANN scored at 0.945221 on 2013-05-22T18:14:57+00:00 . Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 18:15, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I think it's more likely to be you that's blocked from editing without further notice ClueBot. It's outrageous to be accused of vandalism twice in the space of two days. Eric Corbett 18:19, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I've warned the bot and pinged the operators here, as well as filing the report here. Hopefully it will quit bothering you now. — Ched :  ?  20:02, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Ched. It may quit bothering me, but how many other new editors has it chased away in the past, and will chase away in the future? I'm curious as to what exactly it was that triggered these accusations of vandalism, and if the bot operators can't come up with a plausible explanation then I think it should be blocked until they can. Eric Corbett 20:07, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Good point. I haven't had much time to spend on wikipedia lately, but will drop a note for others to keep an eye on it at AN. Cobi hasn't edited since the 6th, and Crispy since Feb. - so perhaps one of the other admins can try to fix it. I'm not familiar with bot coding myself, but agree this could be a problem that needs looked at. — Ched :  ?  20:11, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I could probably fix it myself:

if username=="Eric Corbett" putYourGunsAwayAndWalkBackSlowly();

Eric Corbett 20:19, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) AN Notice if you're interested in following along. I know you usually like to avoid those cesspools, but it's there if you want to look in to see what's happening with it. — Ched :  ?  20:22, 22 May 2013 (UTC) ... OK ... I literally did LOL at that. :D — Ched :  ?  20:22, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Came here from ClueBot Commons - this is indeed worrying, and I'm really sorry the bot did this. Up to now it's been extremely reliable and effective. It's trained based on human evaluations of sample edits, so what's gone wrong is less than obvious. I hope its masters resurface soon. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:28, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

It's a very good example of one of the problem with these bots. Is Crispy the only one who knows how it works, as he appears to be? Eric Corbett 20:32, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I believe either of the two of them ... I was just checking its last pageful of edits and see it's now been blocked by Ched. So now we wait for them to turn up. However, I didn't find anything wrong with those I checked. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:39, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I can see it needs to be fixed, but it does revert a massive amount of vandalism, so it would probably be best to keep it running.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 20:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

What's often misunderstood is that NG is based on a neural network machine learning process which is entirely data-driven, so if age of account has been learned as a useful predictor of the likelihood of vandalism, it's not the operators or the bot itself who are to blame. This is undeniably a strange boundary condition, and the bot is approved to run at a set specificity with a permissible number of false positives such as these. Disclaimer: interested bystander not involved in NG development Jebus989^✰ 20:46, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes exactly, it learns based on human evaluations of a data set, so it's hard to figure out what triggered it. I have joined the recommended IRC channel and looked in vain for either of the operators, and have e-mailed Cobi (probably about no. 20 to do so). Yngvadottir (talk) 20:51, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

The problem with neural networks is that once they're trained nobody knows how they work. And if ClueBot is making a habit of these sorts of warnings then it needs to be blocked until it's retrained. Eric Corbett 20:56, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Incidentally I did try to contact the devs regarding trying a new machine learning method some time ago, regardless it has a known FP rate which has been deemed acceptable by BAG, and two warnings for this account (while an unfortunate oddity) really shouldn't stop the bot reverting so much legitimate vandalism all over the project. It's not making a habit (to my knowledge), as brand new accounts wouldn't make a habit of making such large diffs (e.g 1) or inserting effectively a short random string (e.g. 2 w/ typo in nbsp). My point above was that if new accounts are treated with additional suspicion, it's borne out of real editing data rather than an (e.g.) operator's preconceptions Jebus989^✰ 21:08, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Let's look at it another way. It's hardly my fault that this account is considered to be new, that's simply an artefact of the software design, yet another way of punishing those who contribute too much to Wikipedia. What's the next warning from ClueBot going to be? "I have now indefinitely blocked you for continued vandalism"? Eric Corbett 21:15, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Of course you're not personally to blame for a classifier with <100% accuracy, and if an admin blocked this account following an AIV report from Cluebot (without even looking here) it would be the admin who was at fault Jebus989^✰ 21:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) Hey - I tried. But apparently I'm utterly "ridicolous and clueless" [sic] - apparently for putting real people ahead of bots. And people think that Skynet could never happen. Oh well, my bad I suppose. — Ched :  ?  21:19, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

  Getting anything fixed here is impossible Ched, I thought you knew that. Eric Corbett 21:22, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I reached someone on IRC, who will be by to explain what happened after he gets it completely figured out. Apparently Drmies' joke Level 3 warning caused the bot to escalate to Level 4. Gah. Just imagine how much added fun we will all have after they replace our talkpages with FaceBook talk pages? Back to check on things after I deal with some offline stuff. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:28, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I had a momentary lapse. — Ched :  ?  21:29, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

But why did I get the initial level 1 warning Yngvadottir? Eric Corbett 21:51, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Apparently because you went through and changed four-digit numbers to two-digit, something which frequently happens when vandals try to subtely edit data to make it wrong.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 21:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I was simply trying to make the article conform to the MoS in date ranges, something I've done in many other articles and hardly vandalism, so there's more to it than that. Eric Corbett 22:09, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

All of this is why we should take extra care in trusting bots to deliver messages to the real people who actually exist behind the keyboard. I find it slightly surreal that Eric, who probably holds the record for the greatest number of undeserved warnings and blocks, now finds that he's being victimised by a bot as well. Tells you something about how this place writes bots. --RexxS (talk) 22:11, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

And to add insult to injury the toolserver database is apparently corrupted, so I'll continue to get these stupid vandalism warnings. Seems like I'm doomed to be a permanent newbie. Eric Corbett 22:16, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Even the bots conspire against you, Eric. ~ DanielTom (talk) 23:32, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I should probably take the hint. Eric Corbett 23:34, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I know, although that's the first I'd heard of that's being preferred form under MOS (yet another MOS thing I hadn't known about). There's also the issue of lack of header for the second warning; and Cobi has appeared and has indeed pointed out a problem with the Toolserver database; unfortunately that doesn't surprise me in the least, the WMF have effectively pulled the plug on that and it's intermittently FUBAR'd. However, I am not a technie. DamienZaremba, above, is the chap who was nice enough to respond to my Kermit flail in the IRC chan. I must now go to bed. Once more, Eric, I'm really sorry this happened and I do appreciate how it would strike a real newbie. I've also pointed out on IRC that it's dangerous to assume dynamic IPs, for example, won't make edits like those two. However, ClueBot is generally a valued colleague and I haven't found any other bad reverts he made in a pageful. I hope whatever caused this can get fixed. Yngvadottir (talk) 22:19, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Ched has my total support on this. Cluebot is clueless. Let's see, Eric makes a typo, bot is unattended and making bad postings/warnings, Ched blocks bot, and Snowolfie rants on Ched? Going over to Snowolfie's page... PumpkinSky talk 23:16, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

ClueBot certainly isn't the wonderful tool that some appear to believe it is, and I don't for one minute buy the "broken toolserver database" explanation. Like every neural network, it can learn duff stuff, but nobody can tell, because nobody knows what it's learned and why. Eric Corbett 23:25, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

• It would be nice to know which articles ClueBot is going to allow me to edit, and what types of edits I'm allowed to make. Do I have to avoid all current and past FA and GA nominations for instance, which is what it currently seems like? Would I get accused of vandalism again if I undertook a GA review? Eric Corbett 23:52, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

• Well . . . if you're doing a GA review . . . and the doorbell rings . . . and it's a guy named "Smith" . . . wearing a black suit and very dark shades, with a wire coming out of his ear . . . duck. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 01:03, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

"the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit" - not the first time it seems promising too much ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:05, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

And all for the sake of a typo. Sheesh. I'm NEVER changing my username if that's the situation! Montanabw^(talk) 01:08, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

You're not me, I've never been welcome here is the truth, and have never been a Wikipedian according to ArbCom. Added to which I'm not female or even American. And to add to that I'm a Caucasian. Who needs them here? Got plenty of them already. Eric Corbett 01:34, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, don't tell anyone (my self-disclosure on-wiki is limited) but I'm all of the above but frequently feel the same way you do. Why I've managed to duck a block probably speaks to the reality that I've never tried an RfA and I try to confine myself to drive-bys on the drahmahz boards. However, if I keep working on it, this project might raise the kind of ire that you know so well. (Feel free to pitch in and comment, btw, it's a sandbox invite). Montanabw^(talk) 20:30, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Just wanted to add that I don't care whether I'm welcome here or not. I'll leave when I decide to leave, not some damn bot or its admin lackeys. Eric Corbett 01:43, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Bravo, well said!PumpkinSky talk 02:03, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, the explanation about moving the page and all the "warnings" (when compared to how few edits you had with the new account) do make sense. It still sucks to get thumped by a bot, but I feel better that it probably isn't all that common. We need to get back to putting the final polish on Sunbeam Tiger. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 02:05, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't find the explanation convincing; the bot can't find me, but it can trawl through talk pages? And given how active and hated Malleus was I can obviously look forward to a lot more warnings from ClueBot. But I'll let that pass for now. I think we're fine for GA with the Tiger, but we've still got work to do for FA. My Tiger book has arrived, but I haven't read it yet. Eric Corbett 03:47, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

And I understand the skepticism, but bots are incredibly dumb things that just read words without understanding them. People program them for the obvious problems and the obvious exceptions, not for unusual circumstances, so it is at least plausible, and it does make sense to me. There are plenty of eyes on it now. Which book on the Tiger did you get? There aren't that many to choose from. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 10:36, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Robson's Sunbeam Alpine and Tiger: The Complete Story. Eric Corbett 13:11, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Having had a chance to look through Robson's book now I'm very confident that we can get the Tiger article up to a good FAC standard. Whether it would pass or not who can tell, but I'm sure we can give it a bloody good shot. Eric Corbett 17:21, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

I will clear my calender for the event. This has been the most heavily researched project I've worked on, and think you've done a marvelous job on it. I'm just glad I could support the effort. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 17:23, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

It's a strange car in some ways. The early version handled like a dog, Chrysler hated it because it used a Ford engine and gearbox, yet there are so many of them still around and people seem to love them judging by the prices they go for. Weird. Hopefully we'll get a GA reviewer soon. I want to make this the best car article on Wikipedia. Eric Corbett 17:34, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm still not entirely happy with our coverage of Lord Rootes' involvement, or the impact Chrysler had, or the Tiger's rallying success, but we're definitely getting there. If we haven't attracted a GA reviewer by the time I've added something on that then I suggest we take it straight to FAC. What say you? Eric Corbett 18:07, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

As I have no experience with FA, I say sure ;-) I should be able to spend some time this weekend, taking 4 days off. I think what attracts me to the car is that it appears to be an engine and wheels with just enough sheetmetal around it to legally call it a car. Dangerously fun to drive at the limits. Hot Rod did an article where they shoehorned in a 427 into an Alpine, making a one off Tiger III, something that might have actually happened if not for Chrysler and the economy. 200 hp was almost too much for the Tiger II, I can't imagine over 400 hp. You would have to wear a diaper to drive that thing. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 20:36, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

It's a Bank Holiday over here this weekend, so I've got a few things on. Plus I'm already up to my limit of permitted FAC nominations with Middle Ages and The Man in the Moone, so hopefully some time later next week. Eric Corbett 20:43, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Memorial Day here Monday, the official start of summer. I'm willing to put everything else on the backburner and put this front and center during the process. I have much to learn, so I wouldn't consider it a sacrifice. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 20:52, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

FAC isn't as bad as some people make out, so long as you go there properly prepared. And we will. But I'm only allowed two nominations at a time anyway. So even if we were ready we'd have to wait. And who knows, maybe in the interim we'll get that GA review. Eric Corbett 21:09, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Its never bad if you get Eric to copyedit for you. He's a god at that sort of thing. (Speaking of, now that I've buttered you up, there's two little comments I'm not qualified to deal with on MA's FAC. And I think Norman conquest of England's about ready to go for FAC when/if MA ever finishes. I finished up the bare bones of Battle of Hastings last night... now to expand it a bit for GA...Ealdgyth - Talk 21:54, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm looking through the one about "Middle Ages was" as opposed to "Middle Ages were". Is there anything else I should be looking at? I look forward to seeing the conquest article at FAC; that's just about the most important event in our history. Eric Corbett 22:14, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

And I'm beginning to lose hope that the MA review will ever end. What on Earth did you think you were doing? Eric Corbett 22:57, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Silly me, I tried to improve the encyclopedia. Us stupid content builders will never learn, will we? Ealdgyth - Talk 23:09, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'm in no rush, I'm playing the role of Tonto for this article, you've been on the lead since day one so I have no problem working with your time table. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 22:21, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm only allowed two nominations at a time. I don't think we're quite there yet anyway, but we will be in a week or so. Strangely enough, for a new user I'm building up a backlog of potential FAC nominations, but maybe that's quite normal. Eric Corbett 22:38, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it's no big deal. Any idiot can write an FA class article. ;-) Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 23:10, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm led to believe that we idiots are easily replaceable units of work. Unlike admins of course, who are god-like and irreplaceable. Eric Corbett 23:18, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

There are idiots and there are planks, per the section below. My welcome message should have said "Welcome a-board Wikipedia ..." BTW The Plank still rates as one of my favourite films - no subtitles! - Sitush (talk) 23:32, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Well known - adjectival

Grammar query: would a person be well known or well-known? Are you aware of any differences in treatment between US/UK English? I favour the latter but I am well-known for being wrong. - Sitush (talk) 23:09, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

It depends on the context. For instance, in your example "I am well-known for being wrong" there should be be no hyphen, as there's no following noun. And there's no US/UK English difference, just planks and those who know what they're talking about. Eric Corbett 23:22, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Wow. So, it would be a well-known car or a well-known person but well known for? - Sitush (talk) 23:25, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Exactly. The purpose of hyphens is to avoid ambiguity; if there's no following noun there can be no ambiguity. Consider "a well known doctor" for instance. Was the doctor in good health or was he known to be a doctor? Eric Corbett 23:30, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Got it, thanks. I asked because someone is using AWB at the moment and is removing hyphens. I'm uncertain whether AWB/RegEx is sufficiently clever to determine whether the subsequent word is a noun or otherwise but, hey, there will be no more cock-ups on my part. - Sitush (talk) 23:37, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Strong objection to your change of username

Dear Mr Corbett,
I write to most strongly protest your recent change of username.
This change has resulted a significant loss of smugness for those of us who are familiar with the Malleus Maleficarum and the Narrenschiff and were able to immediately recognise your previous username's meaning in Latin and be all smarty-pants about it.
I am sure that I am not teh [sic] only Wikipedia editor of this opinion, and would invite other users to comment.
Yours faithfully, Peter in Australia aka --Shirt58 (talk) 11:29, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I love to talk to you, Eric, rather than to some Latin monument, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

ps: it's all my fault, I was asked, see the exchange of thoughts with "balls still in place?" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:43, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello dearest Gerda

Q: How did the Rhinemaidens breathe under water?

A: They had Aqua-Nibelungs!

--Shirt58 (talk) 12:31, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

bzzt: Eric hates opera. (Or I would have pointed more to my Wagner special, hojotoho-o., or should I rather match the Q/A: weialeia... - "I won't translate it because it doesn't mean anything.", same source: "Mr. and Mrs. Wotan have an argument.") --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:00, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Wagner apparently hated opera as well interestingly. Eric Corbett 14:05, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Exactly, you got it. Not Wikipedia, the sources call them operas, never mind what the composer says, - my latest "work" has a title about defiance and faintheartedness, much more defiance in the music, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:01, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Wow - no wonder ppl don't want to help on the main page

Guess it's my turn now MF has gone ... Talk:Main_Page#Who_let_this_grammatical_atrocity_onto_the_main_page.3F Chaosdruid (talk) 13:16, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

And now ... Wikipedia_talk:Picture_of_the_day#You_really_need_to_address_this_sort_of_behaviour

Oh dear, never mind. Keep Editing and Carry On. Chaosdruid (talk) 13:24, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Believe me, MF hasn't gone. I'm the same grumpy short-tempered editor I've always been. Eric Corbett 14:04, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Grumpy and short-tempered some may consider you to be. Have you ever considered "cherished"? Probably not because that could seem a bit narcissistic . But do think about it, and remember that wikimeet. Which we must do again some time, whether formally or otherwise. - Sitush (talk) 00:32, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

I think people were just surprised I didn't have horns, a pointed tail, and cloven hooves. ;-) Eric Corbett 00:39, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

You didn't? Oh, then either the beer had disrupted my vision or Richerman was in fancy dress ... This is a randomised test to see how well Echo works.- Sitush (talk) 00:44, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Fancy dress? - I always look like that. Richerman (talk) 00:23, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Please to see that Echo may possibly be doing its stuff. I've been in the Eagle today. They've introduced posters about offers etc, pinned below the bar. I noticed when I accidentally caught my ankle on one, and then I thought that, well, it's bloody pointless putting them so far below eye-level. Then I thought of Mr Richerman and a Wetherspoon's pub in Manchester: they're about the right height for someone who has fallen over ... - Sitush (talk) 00:38, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

And, just when I thought it was all over and done with (as the conversation was closed 2 days ago) ... User_talk:Chaosdruid#Personal_attacks_and_incivility

So, once more, Keep Editing and Carry On I suppose :¬( Chaosdruid (talk) 03:23, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Wheewww...

Yay! Ealdgyth - Talk 13:51, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

You two worked miracles in the era, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:56, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Ealdgyth did an amazing job on that. Unbelievable really. Eric Corbett 15:47, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

• Way to go both of you! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:28, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

• I'll echo the general excitement - great work! Hchc2009 (talk) 16:38, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

  I deserve very little credit for this, I was only along with Ealdgyth for the ride. She and Johnbod deserve the credit for this. Eric Corbett 17:00, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

• Bullshit. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:05, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but Ealdgyth is the prime mover for sure. Another one disproving that big topics can't get FA. Johnbod (talk) 17:58, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

I will say that any motivation I had to get Crusades up to GA, much less FA, status is gone. Just doing the work I did on it burned me out on the Crusades... blech. Back to Normans for me! (I may start fiddling with History of Europe sometime ... if I'm feeling mascochistic.) Ealdgyth - Talk 00:42, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Count me out on the history of Europe. I'm brave, but not that brave. Eric Corbett 19:47, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Big 'uns are alot of fun and a real epic ride, but one can only do one every so often. Well done all. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:57, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

You are a Golden Editor!

Good as gold!

Hi, Eric. I'm somewhat surprised that I find myself making this edit, given the fact that we really didn't get along well at all back when you were Malleus. Among regular contributors who take part in the behind-the-scenes community, you may very well be the most polarizing editor around. You have certainly seen your share of memorably forgettable moments, and have occasionally left others, myself included, practically seething. In spite of this, you will remain an asset to the encyclopedia, perhaps long after you are gone, through your remarkable work in mainspace. Even while I was typing up this post, I imagine that multiple readers, perhaps in multiple countries around the world, were reading something that you wrote in one of our articles and perhaps finding information that they seriously needed. Furthermore, it cannot be doubted that you have been a helpful collaborator to many of your fellow Wikipedians during the years. You have a large working knowledge of Wikipedia and it is a great help when you share it. While it may not be without controversy, I have decided that it is appropriate to present you with the Golden Editor Award, the opinion of ClueBot NG notwithstanding. Regards, AutomaticStrikeout  ?  00:10, 26 May 2013 (UTC) P.S. I like your new signature.

Why, thank you very much. In a few days time people all over the world be able to learn who it was really started the modern Olympics. Eric Corbett 00:27, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

It is amazing how much information there is in the world. AutomaticStrikeout  ?  00:30, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah- I've just found out Matisse may have been a (male) minor American novelist. Weird. --Randy from Boise (talk) 19:34, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

If true that is indeed weird, frighteningly so. Eric Corbett 19:45, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Congratulations!--My76Strat (talk) 19:51, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

• If you believe only what others say, then it is easy to dislike Eric. If you actually get to know him and work with him, then it is easy to respect him. It is no more complicated than that. Both choices are just that, choices by the observer. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 19:48, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

  I'm probably just an anomaly: one of Wipikedia's most helpful yet despised editors. It's a strange old world. But to be fair, I don't take prisoners. Eric Corbett 19:54, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

• A simpler description might be one who does not suffer fools gladly. My dad used to tell me to seek out such people, because when they offer an opinion, you never have to wonder if it's an honest one. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 18:12, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• Yeah, that sums it up for me. From my own experience, if you're here to write and improve articles, Eric's a good guy to have around. I find it very telling that those he has little time for seem to be regulars who are obsessed with this place - I can't think of anyone who's actually left Wikipedia because of him (though I dare say I'm wrong). One has to wonder, given recent discussions about "like" and "thanks" buttons is ... will Eric get a "fuck you, asshole" button? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:23, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

  It must be coming up for six months since I was last blocked; I think the admins must be getting soft around here. Eric Corbett 17:12, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Two helps?

Eric, I wonder if I can request your copyediting skills again. List of works by Sharpe and Paley is grinding along at FLC. The lead has been almost completely rewritten and "The prose quality has deteriorated somewhat". Now there's a surprise! The other, associated, article on which I have spent some time is Edward Graham Paley. Is it worth a go at GAN? If so, would you be willing to have a go at improving the text, and making any comments? Thanks. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 09:16, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Sure, but maybe not until this evening as I'm trying to finish off the Sunbeam Tiger and I'm into my flow on that now. Is the FLC copyedit urgent do you think? Eric Corbett 10:00, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Not at all urgent. When you can fit it in. Just grateful for your help and advice. I've a few jobs to do on the article, anyway. Cheers. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 10:45, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

The first paragraph of that Sharpe and Paley list was a bit of a dog's dinner, but the rest wasn't too bad. Just one question; are you considering "practice" to be a singular or plural noun? You've got "Sharpe formally withdrew from the practice in 1851, although it continued to trade as Sharpe and Paley until 1856" along with "Most of the practice's ecclesiastical work was for the Church of England, but they also designed a new Roman Catholic church, St Mary, Yealand Conyers". Eric Corbett 17:17, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I've suggested a fix for that, but if you don't like it you know what you can do. Eric Corbett 23:42, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I'll take a look at Edward Graham Paley later and get back to you. Eric Corbett 17:19, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

GA

Should you update your GA with your current signature/account at the list and on the page, as someone might be reluctant to review an article for a "blocked" editor? Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 17:31, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• I might add that those of us with the right script loaded see your old name as being struck out, like all blocked accounts. Most admin use that script, I think. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 17:43, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

  Ah, I'd forgotten I was blocked. Never mind though, as I fully intend to remove the GA nomination this evening when I've explained the discrepancy in the maths and take the Tiger straight to FAC. Eric Corbett 18:03, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

  You might want to update any others that are pending review. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ / Join WER 18:17, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

  Haven't got any others, but is this issue affecting the FAC of The Man in the Moone as well? Eric Corbett 18:58, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

  Not sure. You could go and replace "Malleus" with three ~ marks to just replace your name and link there, leaving the existing time stamps, and leave a note explaining the name change. Same with the listing page at FA, three ~ marks. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ / Join WER 21:22, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

  I thought about putting up a joke edit warring template for reverting me there, but afraid the bot might come back and thump you, it appears he has it out for you. ;-) And of course, I have no problem with you reverting me. I trust your judgement. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ / Join WER 22:06, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

  Where the MoS is concerned you'll just have to trust me. ;-) It's been interesting to see the different terms used in the US for things like air scoops though, and firewalls. Eric Corbett 22:35, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

  Same here for British English. I will never get used to "tyres". My all time favorite, easy to misunderstand expression is the old "Knock me up in the morning" which has a very different connotation on this side of the pond.[9] Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ / Join WER 22:40, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

  It means exactly the same over here now; it's a long time since we had knocker-uppers. Eric Corbett 22:45, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

I think you gave me too much credit at FA, kemosabe, but that was a nice and inviting nomination. Kudos. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ / Join WER 00:34, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't care who gets the credit, I only care about the end result. Eric Corbett 01:46, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm rather pleased that it has drawn attention so quickly. Assuming it passes soon, how do we get this in line for the front page? Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ / Join WER 18:23, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

WP:TFAR, but we've got a way to go yet. Eric Corbett 18:27, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Dennis, if it were me then I'd settle for the FA. That is the kudos here on WP: basically, a detailed peer review that involves anyone who wants to get involved but invariably includes some who really can be pedantic intense in ensuring that it meets the grade. Sooner or later it will appear on the front page. You might wait a long time or you might not but, hey, its the article that counts and the front page stuff is just a bonus for those who invested the time in it. James Tod was on the front page a few months ago and the first I knew about it was when I got the notification. It is an obscure topic, I hadn't asked for the appearance or even mentioned it elsewhere and, tbh, it freaked the heck out of me because the thing had been so contentious. But I stand by it being a pretty comprehensive article, reasonably well written and compliant with policy: that's all that really matters because it means that it has served/is serving the purpose for which we are all here. (And Tod still needs work, FA or no FA, and Eric would probably find numerous problematic issues in it.) - Sitush (talk) 23:28, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I can find issues in any article Sitush, but it doesn't mean they're not good articles, just not perfect. I've got a TFA of my own coming up on Friday, should be interesting. The last few haven't been so bad to be honest. Eric Corbett 23:40, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Wohlzutun und mitzuteilen vergesset nicht ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:46, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

The closer you get to perfection, the further away it seems to be. Well, that's my real life experience, anyway. - Sitush (talk) 23:48, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

My experience is that as you get older you begin to realise how much you don't know. And as for Gerda, I love a challenge. I just hope she's wearing her aluminium brain protector. Eric Corbett 23:51, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

"But to do good and to communicate forget not." It's a quote from the article that will go to the Main page on Sunday, DYK. Have a look. - Please explain the protector, then I will have more challenges. George knows that I promised an article ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:16, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Don't you have tin foil hats in Germany? Eric Corbett 14:12, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

• Sitush, when I became an admin, I promised myself that I would learn how to write quality articles, knowing my quantity would go down. I had one DYK in over 5 years. In the year since, I've had 3 more DYKs, two GAs, and I'm close to my first FA (thanks to a great teacher). It is about a promise I made to myself, for my own reasons, and is more a personal goal than how it looks to others. I'm not inclined to settle. ;-) Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ / Join WER 00:00, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

  You're making me nervous Dennis. FAC is a tough gig, and we've only just started. All it takes to derail us is someone popping out of the woodwork asking why we haven't mentioned the single most important event in the history of the Sunbeam Tiger. Eric Corbett 00:07, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

No need to be nervous, I'm a patient man and haven't attached my goals to any one article or exact time scale. This is the best article I've been associated with, however, making it an excellent candidate. I would be surprised if someone found anything major that we haven't already run across. You came in familiar, I came in blind, we both dug deep and independently. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ / Join WER 00:20, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

I'd be surprised as well, but we need reviewers. I doubt it's a topic likely to appeal to women for instance, although I'm quite certain my wife would have loved one. She used to scream down the M6 in her MGB; God knows what she'd have done if she'd been driving a Tiger. Eric Corbett 00:38, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm sure Mrs.Dr. Corbett would have done fine. I read somewhere that the Tiger "is really only as fierce as a pussy cat. A woman would find it easy to control." ;-) Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ / Join WER 00:52, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

A comment like that is just designed to wind her up: it's Dr Corbett. She absolutely hates being called Mrs, which I sometimes think is the only reason she embarked on her PhD. Eric Corbett 01:01, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

I've corrected myself above. Extend my apologize, please. That quote is sexist yet innocent. It gives us a window into this less enlightened era in a very concise way, which is why I like it. Of course, if you printed in a magazine today, you would be rightfully scolded. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ / Join WER 01:15, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

It's not the quote she'd take offence at. She'd just find that mildly amusing, as I'm sure most women would these days. It's being called Mrs that really causes her hackles to rise. But if you think back to the time when an invitation such as "Mr and Mrs Eric Corbett" was acceptable I think you can see where she's coming from. Eric Corbett 01:26, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

No cars don't appeal to me at all, I can't even remember the registration of mine. I worked with a woman who didn't change her name when she married and was addressed as "Miss" for the entire time I knew her, still is I expect. I don't mind being a Mrs, I've been called worse things by four year olds. J3Mrs (talk) 08:41, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

When I married 20 years ago, I made it perfectly clear to Mrs. Brown that she wasn't required to be Mrs. Brown and could keep her former name or a hyphenated version, or any name she chose, and meant it. She chose Mrs. Brown. The Mrs. part doesn't define her, but she sees it as part of who she is. She was actually better known than I was, so more often than not, they called her by her first name and I was simply referred to as her husband, so I got a little taste from the other side. I adored my wife and still do, so it doesn't bother me greatly. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ / Join WER 13:18, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Rather similar situation with us. My wife had published loads of scientific papers under her maiden name, so initially chose to keep it after we got married. Even now though when somebody who doesn't know us asks for Dr Corbett they usually assume that being male I'm the Dr, not her. Eric Corbett 13:53, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

My dearly beloved never asked me what I'd like to be called........he knew I'd choose whether he liked it or not. J3Mrs (talk) 14:06, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

That's the spirit! I don't think my wife and I ever discussed it either; she decided for herself when and if the time was right for her. Eric Corbett 14:09, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Rite of Spring

Hi, Eric. I've just been looking at your helpful edits on the TFA, and came here to thank you, as someone I've not encountered before – and I find that I actually know you quite well (I was similarly in the dark when I did the sources review on the Sunbeam FAC article). Well, thanks anyway for your interest in The Rite, and I hope your new name prospers. I will recognise it in future. Brianboulton (talk) 23:09, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

You're very welcome Brian. I used my real name when I first arrived here, but was warned off doing so for some reason I can't now remember. The pseudonymous Malleus Fatuorum just began to look tired and childish to me, so it was time for a change. One day I hope we'll all be prepared to stand behind whatever it is we write here. Eric Corbett 23:17, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

When I first registered with WP I used my real name, partly because I was not familiar with the widespread use of pseudonyms in computer-land, but mainly because, as I say on my talk page, I believe in openness. There is a potential problem for me because of my not-common name and, because of the medical directory, my personal details could be easily found. (Actually I have since been struck off the register for not paying my subs, but that's a different story.) So I am pleased to see editors using their real names (or what seem to be their real names).

To change the subject, many thanks for your most recent copyediting. The FLC is proving to be a greater challenge than I had expected. And the reviewer seems to be upset by my attempt at explaining church "restoration" (and he did ask for it). It's a bit complex to explain and I've done my best, but he's not "smitten" by it. Is there a better way of explaining the architect's intention of restoring a church to what he thinks it should have been at an earlier time? I'm not completely happy with the article Victorian restoration, because restoration took place before and after Victoria's reign, and the only term the architectural historians use is "restoration". (And I'm not going to get involved in doing anything with or about the article because I do not have the necessary sources or knowledge to deal with it.) Sorry to ramble. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 10:15, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

I'l take another look at it Peter and see what I can do. On the subject of names this really is my real name, no pretence. I've increasingly come to believe that when what we write can have real-world implications we shouldn't hide behind pseudonyms. Eric Corbett 14:04, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

To change the subject back to Stravinsky: due to the premiere dates, opera celebrates BB days, Bartered Bride, Sacre with Monteux (nod to Tim) and L'Arianna, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:48, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

And over to FLC again; many thanks for your recent contributions. Satisfaction achieved at last! Phew! --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 08:05, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure I really understood the objections to what was there before, but I just wrote something that made sense to an architectural ignoramus like me. Is it my imagination, or is FLC getting tougher? Eric Corbett 09:01, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Maybe it's my deficiencies. I must admit that the list is better than when it was nominated. And I haven't met that reviewer before.--Peter I. Vardy (talk) 15:13, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Sig

I rather think your new signature is classy. Tony (talk) 12:51, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Tony. And it is my real name, copper-bottom guaranteed. Eric Corbett 13:57, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Everything Tastes Better with Bacon

Hi there, Eric Corbett, I hope you're doing well! :)

You previously participated in an FAC for Everything Tastes Better with Bacon.

It's subsequently had additional copy-editing through Guild of Copy Editors and a once-over by FA Writer Tim Riley.

I've nominated it for consideration a 2nd time at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Everything Tastes Better with Bacon/archive2.

Your input would be appreciated, at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Everything Tastes Better with Bacon/archive2.

Thank you for your time, — Cirt (talk) 19:17, 31 May 2013 (UTC)