User talk:Ettrig

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Hello, Ettrig, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Tim Vickers (talk) 15:17, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

simple:User talk:Ettrig

Cheers / Thanks[edit]

Thanks for cleaning up here and there. Feel free to share the love on any of my student's talk pages or articles. Some have a great deal of assistance- some not as much. You can get an idea by looking at the Wikipedia:WikiProject AP Biology 2008 to determine if they have assigned mentors. Just jump right in and share your perspective - nothing formal required. Wikipedia can be overwhelming for the inexperienced. A few really need a helping hand. --JimmyButler (talk) 23:05, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Your project is an admirable initiative and a pattern that deserves to spread. I am very happy that the second project of this type that I come about is in my favorite subject (biology rather than medicine). I will certainly lurk around, but do not want to promise to mentor a particular article. --Ettrig (talk) 20:31, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

This is a bit belated, but... Thanks for stopping by the Banker horse article and helping out with some of the more nit-picky aspects. During FAC, I was so wrapped up in my own article that I never noticed that you have jumped around our class's project quite a bit. Your presence has been encouraging...sometimes it's nice to know that someone other than ourselves and JimmyButler is reading our work. :D --Yohmom (talk) 19:39, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I am a big fan of the project. Your Banker article is a beauty, as many have already commented. This feed-back is very much appreciated. I am sometimes afraid that you mostly find me irritating. There is a way to check how many times an article has been accessed. --Ettrig (talk) 19:48, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


Thanks for reviewing my page and giving me some advice. It is greatly appreciated. However, I have a couple of questions. How do you make a redirect page? You told me to say where a drawing is from in the image description, is there a particular format for this?--Grander13 (talk) 03:40, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I think, based on what you said, you're not looking for a redirect. You're looking for how to make what we call 'piped links'. Wikilinks by default show whatever is in the square brackets, so [[Wikipedia]] links to Wikipedia. But, and this is the fun bit, if you put a pipe (the | character) after whatever is inside the brackets, you can write something else, and that is what will be displayed. So you could write [[Wikipedia|The free encyclopedia that anyone can edit]], but what you will see is The free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Hope that helps. //roux   03:49, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
My answers are in the article talk page. --Ettrig (talk) 19:13, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Genetic drift[edit]

I'm glad to see more attention given to this article, and certainly welcome a solid copy edit to the article. But some of your edits go too far. For example, the error you say "was already fixed", which you've now restored, reads, "According to the law of large numbers the effects of random sampling are smaller for larger populations. This implies small genetic drift for large populations and large genetic drift for small populations." This is an erroneous statement. In a large population, there is no implied drift whatsoever, neither large nor small, from the law of large numbers. The law of large numbers implies that the allele frequencies in a large population will be constant from generation to generation, a tendency defined in the Hardy Weinberg equilibrium and described later in the section. Hardy Weinberg has such significance that it's the default position--any change in the allele frequency in a suitably large breeding population, any large or small shift in the frequency, is usually assumed to result from selection or other non-random factors. And the law of large numbers does not imply a large change in small populations. The only probabilistic "implication" of small populations is toward eventual homozygosity. (Btw-law of large numbers speaks only of the tendency toward the true mean when the sampling is sufficiently large, and says nothing with small sampling.) The discussion wasn't in good shape before, but overly abbreviating it is simply adding to the confusion. I'm going to propose some changes I think would help on the talk page. Please join me there. Thanks. Professor marginalia (talk) 19:07, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I missed this point. The problem is deeper than I realized. Yes, let's continue this discussion on the genetic drift talk page. --Ettrig (talk) 19:14, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. The article's grown even more misshaped over the last several months, it looks like. For example, the lead says now that drift is one of just two mechanisms for change in gene frequencies. There are actually four identified by the classic modern synthesis. I've only a few minutes left now but I hope to get to the talk page tomorrow. Thanks again.Professor marginalia (talk) 20:12, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


Thanks for undoing the junk that someone thoughtfully put on my user page! I'm sure you noticed that I replied on my talk to your earlier comment on my talk. See you in the evolution articles! Johnuniq (talk) 00:27, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

March 2009[edit]

Information.svg Welcome to Wikipedia, and thank you for your contributions. One of the core policies of Wikipedia is that articles should always be written from a neutral point of view. A contribution you made to Evolution appears to carry a non-neutral point of view, and your edit may have been changed or reverted to correct the problem. Please remember to observe our core policies. Thank you. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 08:09, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

R U sure U got this right??? I moved a section that was in Evolution. First to another article, then from the top position to within a subsection. How can that be POV? I still hope your action is a mistake. That hope is nourished by your comment when removing from the species problem, "original research". If that comment is about the passage that you removed, then we are in rather close agreement. --Ettrig (talk) 12:10, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Harp Brothers[edit]

I suggest you just go ahead with the merge, if you feel up to it. It seems that Harpe Brothers is older, so its history should probably be preserved. However, Harp Brothers seems to be written better currently. Do you know which spelling of the name is actually correct? Martinmsgj 11:39, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

No, I just stumbed into this and felt it should be flagged. I will not work on the issue. But since you think the newer is better written, I will flag the old one as well. --Ettrig (talk) 15:33, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Copy/Paste mentality.[edit]

Thanks for calling them out on the copy/paste approach. It's exactly why I stopped doing research papers. This strategy of lifting a section - then changing a few words has become a standard approach in high school and I suspect college as well. It is a cat and mouse game between the teacher and the students - in my case I was armed with anti plagiarism tools such as Your suggestion to avoid such a problem is excellent - I would like to copy/paste it over to the Project's talk page. Maybe we can steer them away from "editorial laziness". JimmyButler (talk) 15:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

You are not asking for permission, are you? None such is needed. I would like to point out that these students pointed out their sources clearly, so I have no suspicion that they tried to cheat. --Ettrig (talk) 15:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I was asking permission. The students specific to your commentary are more likely suffering from a lack of clarity over the term "paraphrasing" than attempting to beat the system. That strategy will emerge in the group that waits until the last minute to begin editing. My statement was more a generalization with the problem as whole in the high school.JimmyButler (talk) 15:59, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Spell checking[edit]

It is clever to use the search to find commonly misspelled words. I had a quick look for relevent and found a few hits, I got a lot more for receive. I reckon a spellchecker in the wiki editor would help. Just now I've found a big list of misspelled words in wikipedia. You possibly know about it already. I didn't.
Pnelnik (talk) 09:18, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you![edit]

As a part of the AP Biology project of 2009, I want to thank you for correcting some mistakes in our pudu deer article. Your corrections are valued greatly by the class.Lisa Anne893 (talk) 03:40, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


Hi, thanks for taking an interest in R1a, but your isolated remarks have created a bit of a stir of competing edits, continuing a theme of competing visions about how to work on this article. [1]. I think more comments would be extremely useful. The discussion there sorely needs someone to give an outside perspective (although calling for GA review was frankly not appropriate in my opinion).--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 07:57, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Nice job![edit]

The article's looking good!

Bio barnstar2.png The Bio-star
In recognition for solid improvements to the Genetic drift article! Professor marginalia (talk) 17:02, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! But ... You made most of the work. --Ettrig (talk) 22:00, 17 December 2009 (UTC)


Oops, my bad. I've had it sitting at GAN for ages, wondering why noone was reviewing, I obviously forgot to tag. Many thanks for remedying that. Yes, this will complete the GT, and I hope eventually to get this article to FA (Common House Martin is FA, and the two others are GA} A genus wouldn't be my first choice for an eventual FA, but there's too little on the Asian species. Thanks again, Jimfbleak - talk to me? 19:39, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Round Two?[edit]

Second semester ... most of the same kids (except Pudu group). Other than Bog turtle; the rest are feeling a bit dejected. I'm thinking of unleashing them all on a single article. Maybe an obscure seashell!? Just to make a point. Cheers.--JimmyButler (talk) 01:13, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Ecology length[edit]

Hi Ettrig - thanks for some of the changes to ecology and your notes. The discussion on the length of the article was taken up in the discussion pages. If you compare the length of ecology to other articles - which was already done - you will see that it is smaller than other similar articles that achieved FA status. For such a comprehensive topic - the article is not too long. I thought I would mention this to you because I see in your edits that the length of the article is a concern. For comparison - check out Lions - a featured article that is much longer.Thompsma (talk) 20:26, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Follow-up on suggestions for 'Homologous recombination'[edit]

Back in September 2009, you made some useful suggestions about how to improve the article on homologous recombination. I've tried my hand at fulfilling your suggestion to include information on viral HR (and how it relates to influenza evolution in particular) with a new section titled "In viruses". What do you think? That was one of the few things on my mental "to-do" list before taking the article to WP:FAC. If you have any other suggestions, please let me know. Thanks, Emw (talk) 04:28, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

A very good addition. I am awed and happy to take a miniscule part in this process. --Ettrig (talk) 08:26, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Comment on the Clan of Ostoja article[edit]


I saw You revieved the article and left a comment. Do You have any suggestions how to improve or what You generally think? I would be gratefull for any input.

Best regards, Camdan (talk) 12:17, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but no, I will not work any more on that article. I was drawn there in my search for common misspellings, in this case the search function found the word "challanged" (sic). I noticed some more superficial errors and corrected them. I also had the impression that there are many more problems with spelling and grammar. This is as it should. I think you are carefully describing this family and thereby providing information that will be valuable for the Wikipedia readers. The superficial mistakes in formulations can be corrected by others. --Ettrig (talk) 12:53, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Campaign against "sometime during..."[edit]

I reverted your change to Marine Midland Building with edit summary "the 'sometime' here isn't redundant, it means 'at an unknown time' and explains why we don't say 'at 8:30 in the evening' - we don't know." So, the word "sometime" does impart some information, the fact of uncertainty -- at least in this case, and probably in others. Cherers, CliffC (talk) 14:25, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

As you hint, I have made a large number of such changes. Your's is the second reversal. The first one I understood and accepted. I take the small number of reversals as an indication that I am on the right track. Another one is that the large majority of the articles this campaign takes me to are poor also in other ways. In the specific case I have answered in the article talk page. --Ettrig (talk) 15:17, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Alejo Carpentier page[edit]

Hi Ettrig! We are 'handing-in' our Alejo Carpentier article on Monday, April 11th, and were wondering if you had any suggestions on what we could add/edit in order to bring it up to Good Article status. Thank-you for your ongoing help so far! We look forward to hearing from you soon! Katie322 (talk) 06:07, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Several of the comments in my first batch are still unprocessed. From this I drew the possibly false conclusion that there is no point in adding more comments. I suggest that you comment my comments, saying that yes, this is changed or explaining why you think there should be no change. Then I will read the article again. --Ettrig (talk) 08:34, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Ettrig! We (unexperienced wikipedians) are confused with why our article picture can't be used. Please refer to our comments on the Alejo Carpentier talk page. Thank-you! Katie322 (talk) 19:17, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Re: Lost film[edit]

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Hello, Ettrig. You have new messages at Talk:Second Choice.
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Ettrig, I thank you for your support in trying to help me include Websters as a reference for the definition. I know it is not the best reference possible for Macroevolution and Microevolution's definitions, but the other reference is merely to the origins blog of Talk Origins.. I would appreciate your editorial support in the above articles.--Gniniv (talk) 02:46, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Women and Children Last[edit]

Indeed that was how it was done in the quote from the interview, wasnt sure wither or not to correct it. HrZ (talk) 21:07, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

MacDaid block[edit]

No mistake - checkuser confirmed sock of Mattisse (talk · contribs) who, while she has done some excellent work, was banned for very good reasons. Steve Smith (talk) 12:37, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

History of botany[edit]

Hi Ettrig - I am gradually working through the whole article again (nearly finished) making it more readable. I think your recommendation for more citations is still valid. In a couple of days when I've gone through it could you possibly manage to read the article just once more, inserting citation tags where you think they are needed and then I think it should be ready to submit for GA again. Sorry all this has taken me so long. Granitethighs 00:24, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

No, I don't think I asked for references. Yes, references are included in the GA criteria. No, you should not apologize. Your work in Wikipedia is highly laudable. --Ettrig (talk) 20:22, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

GAC comments on Saadanius[edit]

I have addressed the specific concerns (re: fossil dating) you listed on the GAC for Saadanius. Please revisit the review at your earliest convenience and let me know if you are happy with the changes. Thank you for your time and comments. – VisionHolder « talk » 14:59, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

It should be noted that[edit]

It is interesting to note and should be noted that I give two-thumbs up on removal of that kind of crap. How do people get in the habit of using trite phrases like this, trying to pad the word count on high school essays? Cheers, OhNoitsJamie Talk 20:13, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

My thanks, as well, for deleting this nonsense phrase. Coemgenus 22:03, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, that was a good edit in demarchy. Should be noted was redundant. Nice to see constructive edits. Shabidoo —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shabidoo (talkcontribs) 17:26, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I, too, have been working on WP:NOTED - but my productivity is much smaller. Carry on. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:41, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

US/UK English[edit]

Are you going round changing words to US spelling on British pages? (dependant to dependent) WatcherZero (talk) 22:34, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I am going around changing words. No, I am changing from incorrect to correct. The ADJECTIVE is spelled dependEnt on both sides of the Atlantic. See for example Wiktionary. --Ettrig (talk) 05:00, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Your changing some nouns where in British English its the correct spelling. WatcherZero (talk) 16:38, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
I checked the recent ones after your last post. Couldn't find any problem. Please give an example. --Ettrig (talk) 16:41, 29 July 2010 (UTC)


I just wanted to point out that your edit changed a quote by a person. The manual of style does not apply to quotes, because we cannot edit what someone else says. It's not a big deal, but be careful in the future. Spidey104contribs 18:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

You are right of course. My fault. --Ettrig (talk) 05:08, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


Hello, Im working on the little tunny article for my biology class, and Im really behind....I was just wondering if you knew of any good sources that may be helpful, and Im not really sure what the template is for like citing sources...any advice? well thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimberly fitzgerald (talkcontribs) 01:09, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

The bad news is that there is no short-cut. The good news is that an honest effort pays out. Mr Butler gave you a really good suggestion for sources the other day. Look at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject AP Biology 2010#Alternative toGoogle Scholar. It had the solution for a problem I had struggled with for a while. As for format, check out some articles that have references and see how it is done there. Look at them in edit mode. You can also copy from there and change the actual content. --Ettrig (talk) 07:25, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Okay, well thank you, that does help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimberly fitzgerald (talkcontribs) 21:36, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Introduction to Evolution and more...[edit]

My students are still not grasping the reality of what lays ahead - if they have any hope of reaching FA. I was contemplating re-nominating the Introduction to Evolution for FA. The process of its demotion was convoluted at best... difficult to explain; but it was a one man show in which the original was blanked - rewritten completely - then was de-listed. The original has since been restored - minus the star - and hopefully improved upon. What are your thoughts on its current state of the article and would it serve as an example of the FA process for the students? as always your insights and involvement in our project over the years is appreciated.--JimmyButler (talk) 16:01, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

It's mysterious to me what you do to inspire your students. But the results are spectacular. That said, I think this idea would not be an efficient way to reach this objective. I think if you want to help your students with the articles it would be better to do that directly. As you know much better than me, I have never done it, achieving FA is enormously time consuming. --Ettrig (talk) 11:42, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Yes, you're right, it would more likely frighten them... but it would break the boredom as I wait for them to step it up.--JimmyButler (talk) 20:41, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Talkback re Population[edit]

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Hello, Ettrig. You have new messages at L.tak's talk page.
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What is a megafossil?[edit]

I noted your change to Evolutionary history of plants. The reference cited (Tomescu) describes the fossils concerned as a "macrophytic cyanobacterial mat". So is a fossil "macrophyte" a "megafossil"? I would say, yes, since in many other contexts macro = mega (macrospore = megaspore, etc.). So I think that the original wording did agree with the reference, and your insertion of "there were also" is not quite supported. But this is a very fine distinction. Peter coxhead (talk) 12:16, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for this. Would you care to make that passage more explanatory. It seems I am not able to. --Ettrig (talk) 12:38, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Cyanobacterial mats are not plants. So why do we spend time on them in a history of plants? --Ettrig (talk) 16:29, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for objecting to "destructive edits"[edit]

I couldn't agree more. It seems that many people jsut want to be wikilawyers and don't care much about much else. Geofferybard (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:35, 18 March 2011 (UTC).

Sounds nice. Thanks. But I don't understand what this is about. --Ettrig (talk) 07:45, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Adding evolutionary sections/material[edit]

(moved to talk:Xylem) --Ettrig (talk) 20:10, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Archery and loosing arrows[edit]

Hi, just to let you know that I rewrote one of your edits - there seemed to be some confusion between loosing an arrow, which is what the release aids do, and losing one in the long grass. I hope you found my edit helpful. Richard Keatinge (talk) 15:37, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, my confusion and thanks. --Ettrig (talk) 18:49, 11 April 2011 (UTC)


I have always supported Thompsman's editing. She has added a great deal of content which I have never deleted, although she has supported the deletion of just two sentences that I had introduced with a reliable source.

I appreciate your talking the time to write on my talk page but my view is that we must always endeavor never to make this about the editors, and only about the edits. If someone, even a friend, has violated a policy, we should say so. I learned a long time ago that worrying about what people think about what we think about them only ever impedes progress in improving an article, and that the only right course of action is to comment on someone's edits and not on the person.

I still believe NPOV and NOR support including the Menand citation, although as I have consistently stated I have no objection to someone rephrasing whatever we include in the article so that it accurately (and concisely) reflects Menand's point. Why don't you talk a leadership position, rephrase the line (or two) so they accurately reflect the quotes from Menand's book, and addit back into the article? Slrubenstein | Talk 15:46, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Biology Project[edit]

Hello, my name is Marissa. User:NYMFan69-86 has suggested that I get in touch with you when tackling the Wikipedia project. Our teacher, Mr. Butler, has told us that several Wikipedia members have caught on to the project and will often help other students. I'm not sure if you have noticed in years before,or if User:NYMFan69-86just knows you are very good at Wikipedia. My teacher also said that we will need all the help we can get. I am a bit intimidated at this point, with all the formatting and what not. But any help I can acquire now or down the road I will be more than happy to accept. If you are willing to help, I will get back in touch once we start the articles if I seem to be stuck. Thank you for your time reading this! Marissa927 (talk) 03:38, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]

Kitten (06) by Ron.jpg

Thank you for the suggestions of articles on the AP Biology page. That was very helpful!

Marissa927 (talk) 03:41, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Marissa, thank you, but I find this contradictory. Apart from this response, my comments on topic your topic selection have been completely ignored. I suggest that you choose something that will be valuable for the readers and which will make you learn something that is valuable for you and that will put you in interaction with other editors. Granted, this will make it more difficult to reach GA and FA, but that should not be an issue with the new evaluation system that is used by Mr Butler this year. But again, I see no counter-argument. These aspects, that seem so important to me, are just ignored by you. --Ettrig (talk) 08:22, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

I apologize, I did not mean to ignore your suggestions. I was a bit overwhelmed with all the arguments about topics at that point and wasn't used to wikipedia yet! I hope you are willing to get past that. I have been trying to address your latest concerns on my eagle ray article. thank you! Marissa927 (talk) 03:24, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Spotted Eagle Ray[edit]

Thank you for your efforts on the Spotted Eagle Ray article. Your suggestions have been helpful and are appreciated! Marissa927 (talk) 03:21, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


Transcribed from Wikipedia:WikiProject AP Biology 2011. I am sorry I am so delayed in this response... no excuses, I just over-looked it. Yet more evidence of teachers shirking their duties. Paraphrasing is a concept difficult for students to grasp. My first concern would be "Was it cited?". If not, then this would be an automatic fail. If it was cited, then the issue becomes more of understanding, how much restructuring is necessary to avoid the use of quotations. This problem could be avoided if they would take notes on the basic information, then construct a sentence a few days later without the original in front of them. I agree, the composition is too similar to the original. I will review the article to see if this is a trend. --JimmyButler (talk) 06:57, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

No need for excuses! The problems that recently have occurred in other similar projects show how good you are. --Ettrig (talk) 08:17, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
We had an extensive class discussion on plagiarism. The problem seems to be a lack of understanding over syntax. The students have learned that changing words (Diction) and adding or deleting modifiers is adequate for a paraphrase. We have focused on the importance of word order as well. Thanks, hopefully we will improve in that regard.--JimmyButler (talk) 16:35, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Maybe I sound too sharp at times. My focus is on being clear. But I'm your supporter and not your police. I'm sad that you plan to end this project series. It would be very interesting if your describe the main causes somewhere. --Ettrig (talk) 16:40, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank You![edit]

Thanks for the help on the spotted eagle ray! It helped me get to the GA status! Marissa927 (talk) 02:31, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

The honor is due you. (And one or a few of your class mates.) Good job! --Ettrig (talk) 19:37, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

If you are planning to nominate vital articles[edit]

Please don't nominate Richard Nixon, level 4 VA, I'm saving that for his centennial day, January 9, 2013. That being said, I'm very sympathetic to your concerns.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:30, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. As a matter of fact, I wasn't aware of that one. I find the process surprisingly complex, and am learning gradually. At the present it feels that the process is creating hurdles instead of ensuring the the most important among the best articles are presented. But yes, in the future I will start on the article talk. Hopefully that will make the process a bit more harmonious. --Ettrig (talk) 19:53, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

On a related note, please ping relevant WikiProjects if you're nomming a vital article with that little notice? Solar System didn't hear about Saturn, for example. (Nothing at you personally; it's just that my inner perfectionist is screaming a little about not getting to help in the wash, scrub and polish before sending off to the Main Page; eg. I'd have asked my mate who does giant planet atmospheres to have a look & check the literature refs if it hadn't been the weekend, etc etc...). Iridia (talk) 01:03, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I'm a n00b in this business. But please check my latest contributions. That may give you hope. --Ettrig (talk) 06:01, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
I like the template I saw on the Nixon talk page, but it reads a bit oddly "Richard Nixon has been listed as a level-4 vital article in People." As "People" is non-clickable, it looks odd (Magazine? who need People?) Also consider adding a graphic. I suggest something impressive and slightly in your face. Something which implies it is fundamental. I am going to have to think about this one. TCO knows people who are good at graphics.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:29, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
I will most likely not use it again. I only disliked that it wasn't in the list of non-TFA vital FA's. --Ettrig (talk) 20:39, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Access levels[edit]

You are now a reviewer and a rollbacker, please read here. If for some reason you don't want them, drop me a line or any admin and we'll remove them.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:32, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. --Ettrig (talk) 20:39, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Merging South Asia and Indian Subcontinent[edit]

The [merger discussion] is getting nowhere due to lack of participation. Since you had shown interest in the past, will you take a look at the discussion? Aditya(talkcontribs) 04:31, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

This discussion seems too difficult. --Ettrig (talk) 19:47, 10 January 2012 (UTC)


Ettrig, I was putting together some samples for you of issues that might not be reflected in your data, which I lost by hitting the wrong button after gathering a lot of data. Then Raul (rightly) archived the talk page. I'm out of time today, so will put that together later. My intent is to show you what has happend to high page view articles on broad topics because of the Siegenthaler incident (which actually goes directly to her point in the Sue Gardner "holy shit" slide). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:14, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I am very interested in this. --Ettrig (talk) 19:46, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm going out for the rest of the day, and there's a boatload of stuff going on, so if I don't get to that by tomorrow morning, that would be because I forgot-- would you mind pinging my talk page in the event I do forget? Give me, say, 24 hours, and I'll re-do even more data than I lost ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:48, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Ettrig, I'm not in favor of a strict limit. I think we have an appropriate rule of thumb: If it is much over 100K, it starts to get questioned (besides, it's hard on reviewers). What I fear is that we would approve an article, and then the nom packs 30K of stuff he took out for FAC back in. It has happened. There's a list of longest FAs someplace; most of that had stuff added after FAC. Some shortly after FAC.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:05, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Could you provide some of your motivations? I did express some. --Ettrig (talk) 20:25, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

FA statistics[edit]


I mentioned you at the discussion (which you initiated) at Geom. guy's page, I hope you do not object.

Sasha (talk) 01:56, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

AP Biology[edit]

I wanted to leave a parting statement of appreciation as we pull out of the Wikipedia business at Croatan. Your support from the inception of this project has played an important roll in the student's success. It is my intent to retire from education (not Wikipedia) so I hope that collaborative opportunities will present themselves in the future. Until then, continue the good fight. Jim Butler / Croatan High School.--JimmyButler (talk) 19:58, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

SpecialBarnstar.png The Special Barnstar
For patience and perseverance on Croatan's Educational Projects. JimmyButler (talk) 19:58, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
I am proud to have played a small by-role in your grand project. --Ettrig (talk) 20:32, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Bird phylogenetics[edit]

I agree with it, sure, but it is original research and therefore not usable in an article (I know it's OR because I participated in creating it ;) ). Maybe it would be better to simply adapt a cladogram from another article with a source. I'll look around for an appropriate one that can be easily simplified. MMartyniuk (talk) 14:30, 2 February 2012 (UTC)


Hi Ettrig: When you added your new clade diagram, it seems to have messed up the display of pictures in the bird article. I'm seeing stacked pictures/diagrams now. Can you please check and do whatever's needed to avoid that? Thanks! (I have my "default picture setting" at 300px, in case that helps diagnose things...) MeegsC | Talk 16:59, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Image in Alternation of generations[edit]

Hi, you were quite right that the article needed an image at very top right, but it could not just be moved, because the paragraph where it was talks about it. So I've now made a slightly different one and put it at the top right. What do you think of this? Peter coxhead (talk) 09:18, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for breaking the association between text and illustration. Yes, your version is a definite improvement. Two minor quibbles: Why are these not thumbs? Or rather, why is there no visible explanatory text? I understand (now) that the actual article text explains the figure. But what about the one at the top? --Ettrig (talk) 15:19, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
The first image probably should have some text, though I'm not quite sure what to put, beyond a mere statement of what is in the diagram, which is redundant for most readers, and not enough for those relying on reading software. I'll add something; see what you think. Peter coxhead (talk) 19:03, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Clever avoidance of "note"[edit]

I think this phrasing: "The many variations found in different groups of plants are described by use of these concepts later in the article" is a very clever way of not offending WP:NOTED while making the point that the reader needs to take note! I shall remember it for future use. Peter coxhead (talk) 19:00, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Artificial consciousness[edit]

> It is a very important problem for Wikipedia that people who could have become productive editors are turned back by unwelcoming behavior by established editor. The behvaiour by you that Looie comments in this thread appears to me a clear case of such unwelcoming behaviour. I think most people would find it discouraging to get their contributions deleteded. The motivation at the time and the explanations here do not correctly represent what happened. The edits that were deleted were not complicated or difficult to refine. Please try to live and let live. --Ettrig (talk) 10:50, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorry but i don't agree. The changes proposed by that editor had to be made clearer and made more concise, the way they are now in the article. I did not reject the changes by that editor, only said that they should be better and gave him/her a chance to change the article again. As apparently instead of making changes that editor complained about me, asking for help without talking to me and with no need, i added to the article the points he wanted to make, together with the two references. I think there was nothing wrong in what i did.
It is not fair to say about me that i don't let others to live, the case there was clearly a misunderstanding by that editor, something which also may happen elsewhere in life, not only in Wikipedia. New editors should be treated with respect, it should be understood that they don't know well enough how to edit Wikipedia, but they should not assumed to be immature. With fully understanding the problems of the new editors, what about the old editors who leave Wikipedia? Wikipedia needs editors, so i think at least somewhat some should care of the old editors as well. Thank you.Tkorrovi (talk) 00:24, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Please don't change the original definition by Igor Aleksander written in his paper. Please read about the definition on the article's talk page. One should not add original definitions to the article, one can change definition only if one finds a source for new definition, and the definition has to be an exact text from that source.Tkorrovi (talk) 00:44, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 25[edit]

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Invitation to WikiProject Breakfast[edit]

Hello, Ettrig.

You are invited to join WikiProject Breakfast, a WikiProject and resource dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of breakfast-related topics.
To join the project, just add your name to the member list. Northamerica1000(talk) 05:53, 7 April 2013 (UTC)


Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg

Thank you, fiery Swedish user, for quality contributions to quality articles such as Biology, serving millions, for gnomish work in stub sorting, page moves, corrections, fighting waste of space, for clarification, for joy and missing, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:59, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you SO much! It's amazing and surprising how good it feels to see that someone has looked carefully and approves. Ettrig (talk) 13:42, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
A year ago, you were the 784th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:12, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

OER inquiry[edit]

Hi Ettrig, I'm sending you this message because you're one of about 300 users who have recently edited an article in the umbrella category of open educational resources (OER) (or open education). In evaluating several projects we've been working on (e.g. the WIKISOO course and WikiProject Open), my colleague Pete Forsyth and I have wondered who chooses to edit OER-related articles and why. Regardless of whether you've taken the WIKISOO course yourself - and/or never even heard the term OER before - we'd be extremely grateful for your participation in this brief, anonymous survey before 27 April. No personal data is being collected. If you have any ideas or questions, please get in touch. My talk page awaits. Thanks for your support! - Sara FB (talk) 20:39, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Sexual dimorphism[edit]

Hi Ettrig: Just wondering why you're removing links to the sexual dimorphism article from so many articles. It's useful for readers to be able to understand why species are sexually dimorphic, and you're removing their easy ability to do so. Would you mind explaining your rationale? At the moment, I'm strongly tempted to revert the deletion. MeegsC (talk) 23:48, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

In all the cases the text is saying the same thing twice, that the sexes are different. The use of the technical expression sexual dimorphism does not add information. But it adds to the difficulty of reading the text (and obviously to the time it takes to read it). But you are right that there is some value in the link itself. I will add that back.--Ettrig (talk) 04:05, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Ettrig! That looks like a reasonable solution. MeegsC (talk) 23:48, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:50, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Guanín (bronze)[edit]


An article that you have been involved in editing—Guanín (bronze) —has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Anomalocaris (talk) 21:08, 28 January 2016 (UTC)