User talk:Fences and windows

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Problematic IP editor[edit]

Hi there. Last April, you blocked an IP editor for a week for dumping huge amounts of data in demography articles, often with formatting and sourcing problems, as discussed at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive920#'s long-term edit warring and continued addition of unsourced statistics. I've just noticed that the editor seems to have resumed this behaviour since the block. I need to look into the edits in more detail (there are a lot of them), but your thoughts would be welcome. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:39, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi Cordless Larry, I can see they're still making a lot of edits to demography articles - are these recent edits disruptive? This issue of what information should be included in demographics articles and in what format may benefit from drawing up some proposed guidelines and a wider discussion at the village pump. Thanks, Fences&Windows 14:33, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. I still need to investigate the edits further (sorry - I got distracted with other things). It does at least appear that the IP's more recent additions are sourced. I agree that a wider discussion would be worthwhile. Pinging Jolly Janner, who has been involved in this case previously and might also have a view on this. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:43, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
One of the original issues was the IP's refusal to format numbers correctly, despite numerous warnings, and this appears to still be the case with some edits. Here, they get the number format right, but don't cite a source. For many of the other edits, it's hard to tell if the figures are supported by the sources. Take this, for instance. There are five sources cited below that table, so it's hard to know where to look. I doubt that the IP is making up these figures, but the nature of the data dumps makes it very difficult to verify anything. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:46, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
I have started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geography#Vital statistics tables in country demography articles to try to gather views on the inclusion of large vital statistics tables. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:15, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Requesting userfication[edit]

Hello, Fences and windows, I am trying to request access to deleted page, please? I found your username on the page of those willing to provide copies of deleted articles.... only requesting so I can retain content and reference links, etc. Obra Architects is the page in question. [overzealous writer and new user, but if possible I'd like the content to either work on it or reconsider, only to retrieve content please, if possible] I appreciate your help. Thanks, J.seoulJ.seoul (talk) 15:57, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

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13:36, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Your edit on Ruthenia[edit]

You should already be familiar with WP:NONENG. In fact, if you check the latest editing history, you may have noticed that, not only have I had only just expanded the refs and verified them to be correct (here. If you are so dubious of my integrity that you feel compelled to tag variants for 'fact', please ask Ymblanter (or another Russian speaker) to double check. Thank you. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 09:34, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Iryna Harpy - it's not a question of your integrity - Cram101/CTI Reviews copies its information from Wikipedia so it is unquestionably not a reliable source. You cannot verify that source as this is WP:CIRCULAR referencing and your own knowledge of Russian cannot be used as a reference. Someone decided to cite those Cyrillic versions with that source, but it cannot be used so needs to be replaced. Fences&Windows 11:42, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
Iryna Harpy, please compare the source to the lead of Kievan Rus'. I've removed it again, please don't restore it. Cram101 rely on duping people, as with other similar "book" publishers, and we need to be wary. Fences&Windows 11:49, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
I've now understood why you referred to WP:NONENG. The reference I removed that supposedly directly supported the Cyrillic names is in English, a direct copy of a Wikipedia article. Another reference, now reference 1, is in Cyrillic and was cited at the end of the alternative names, seemingly to support other Latin names. If that reference actually also supports those Cyrillic names, that's fine. I already understood we can use non-English sources and I was never questioning this. Fences&Windows 12:00, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
Hi, Fences and Windows. My apologies for my own mistake. It was the last edit of the night, and I'm in the midst of moving (setting up my place for photos pre-auction, whilst juggling the finalisation of the new place): it's a poor excuse for making such silly errors, but it happened.
The ludicrous part is that I was thinking of removing the Cram101 reference myself as I've encountered that series in other articles in the past... and have removed it as CIRC! As for the lead of the Kievan Rus' article, I should have recognised it as an incarnation of the lead as I also work on that article. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa.
As regards the Russian, Ukrainian and Polish sources, it's nigh on impossible to find English language sources for some of the details. My intention is to grab the relevant quotes and translate them into English when I have a little more time. It will make for somewhat cumbersome intext references, but it will at least serve as a stamp of being verified and translated by a hooman bean. I'm still on the prowl for quality English language texts for an article in desperate need of more RS. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 20:58, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
Cool. It's great to be able to add sources from non-English sources, we definitely miss out on a lot of knowledge when we only use what's written in English. Fences&Windows 21:11, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
Agreed. I do, however, prefer that at least one other party checks both the entire text, as well as the selected quotes in the translations. The major problem is that we can't guarantee that editors aren't cherry picking or inadvertently misinterpreting the source. I've encountered both good faith and serious POV usage of sources on a number of Eastern European centred articles. (Thanks for creating a reflist here: straggly refs in unrelated sections are a pet peeve of mine.) --Iryna Harpy (talk) 21:36, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Reply to welcome[edit]

Thank you for your kind message. I am a religious studies scholar and have been editing here and there, very occasionally, for some years. I now adventured to write my first Wikipedia entry as a draft: Weixin Shengjiao. I studied quite carefully the pages you indicated and hope I did everything right but you may want to take a look at my draft page, which is waiting for review. One question, why the image in the Infobox appear aligned right rather than center? Than you Aida Young Aidayoung (talk) 14:43, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

No problem Aida. I've moved your comment down here, the convention is to post new comments at the bottom of a talk page. Sorry for welcoming you after you've been editing for 10 years! I fixed the image using the instructions in Help:Infobox picture. As you're a scholar in this area, you might like and be able to improve two articles I worked on a few years ago: Daejongism and Daesun Jinrihoe. Fences&Windows 18:15, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Dear Fences, again my Wiki-ignorance makes me wonder whether it's better to answer on your Talkpage or my Talkpage. I will have a look at the two articles, starting from Daesun JInrihoe. It is the larger group deriving from Gang Il-sun. My impression is that the article, which by the way is not too bad, was written in its first version by somebody whose native language is not English. Another problem is that it mostly relies on very old sources, while more recent scholarly research now does exist. Here is the message I posted on my own Talk Page: Thank you, very useful work, and please explain how you managed to put the image in the center. Weixin Shengjiao is one among several religious movements that in my personal opinion are under-represented in Wikipedia - this is the reason I also made some edit to the page about Gang Il-sun, whose posterity is extremely complicated (around one hundred religious movements derived from him) but, by the estimate of leading scholar of Korean religion Donald Baker, today may well have some ten million followers when you add up the various movements. What I mean is Gang Il-sun is an important character and deserved a more detailed entry. It is of course not Wikipedia's but our fault as religious scholars. For many years, both I and others found writing in Wikipedia difficult - and it doesn't go in the list of publications for academic advancement... As evidence of our Wiki-ignorance, I never heard before of WP-DYK. I believe the "hooks" can be that "a Taiwanese religious movement teaching I Ching and Feng Shui gathered from 1984 to 2016 some 300,000 followers" (I prefer to stay with the conservative estimate) and "ceremonies honoring the ancestors in Taiwan organized by the religious movement Weixin Shengjiao attract every year on January 1 more than 30,000, including the island's top political authorities." Best regards and thank you again Aidayoung (talk) 19:34, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Aidayoung (talk) 19:42, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

I am posting here too my answer to your comments in my own Talk Page Dear Fences and windows, I will work on Daesun Jinrihoe as soon as possible. Yes, the page shows different hands. I believe criticism should of course be kept but Jorgensen wrote his article sixteen years ago, in the immediate aftermath of the fights between the two factions, which generated a lot of hostile attention in the Korean media. The problems have not been completely eliminated, but a Council held in Yeoju in 2013 allowed the two factions to coexist more or least peacefully. DJ also tried to address the other criticism that surfaced in the media and I would say its public image is better than in 2001. Answering your questions on Weixin Shengjiao, I have mentioned in the entry that it translates "Sacred Teachings of the Mind Only." The problem however is that the Chinese notion of "mind" is not equivalent to the Western one. As far as I know, as it has received very little scholarly attention (in addition to what I quoted there are only three unpublished conference papers), WS has also eluded the radars of critics of fringe religions. Did you write the article on Daejongism as well? If yes, what is a deliberate decision to exclude the controversial matter of the relationship between Daejongism and Dahn Yoga, the organization of Ilchi Lee?Aidayoung (talk) 18:48, 21 February 2017 (UTC)Aidayoung (talk) 16:54, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi Aidayoung, I did re-write Daejongism. Before I edited, it was an largely unsourced stub. I then expanded it using what sources I could find. I'm not a religious scholar and I've not got a particular interest in these new religious movements, but I stumbled on them somehow and decided to improve our coverage. I didn't deliberately exclude the relationship between Daejongism and Dahn Yoga, it just wasn't covered by the sources I found.
The reception of Daesun Jinrihoe can be framed according to the age of the sources and with your access to more scholarly sources it should be improved. Fences&Windows 20:39, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestions about Daesun Jinrihoe. I will get to it as soon as possible. Daejongism in my opinion is understandable and well-written in its present incarnation.I will only add in the next few days some updated references to scholarly literature and perhaps a sentence or two on the controversies about the relationships with Dahn Yoga. Aidayoung (talk) 11:34, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Dear Fences, I have now made a number of edits to the page that you re-wrote on Daejongism. Please check whether you agree. Best, AidaAidayoung (talk) 18:50, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Aida, that looks good. Fences&Windows 15:54, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

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DYK for Weixinism[edit]

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Your close on User:Spacecowboy420[edit]

Hi, Fences and windows. Regarding your close on the latest Spacecowboy420 case, I appreciate your proposal, but restricting Spacecowboy420 from undiscussed redirects or mergers won't stop him from reckless blanking. And the main problem pointed to in these two ANI threads regarding him is his reckless blanking. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:50, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi Flyer22 Reborn, you're welcome to reopen the thread if you feel the discussion needs to continue and further admin action is needed. I didn't look further into Spacecowboy420's current editing. Fences&Windows 07:24, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
Flyer22 Reborn & Fences I have already planned to treat blanking articles, with the same consideration that I have agreed to use when redirecting/merging articles. As per my comments on ANI your advice "just use common sense and err of the side of caution when removing content" seems very sensible and easy to live with. (especially when combined with "discuss major changes first") - I hope that puts your mind at rest, Flyer. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 08:12, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
I responded on my talk page. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:02, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

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I left a note which might be of interest to you[edit]

Talk page note--S Philbrick(Talk) 19:42, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Sphilbrick. I tried to add the infobox, but an edit filter blocked me! The page took English Wikipedia code in the preview, but then "computer says no". I progressively removed "fk a genre", the URL and then found the Spanish wikicode, but to no avail. Spanish Wikipedia's edit filter still thought I was vandalising... I put the code on the talk page and left a cry for help. Fences&Windows 20:14, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
OK, thanks for trying.--S Philbrick(Talk) 20:49, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Sphilbrick, I was overthinking it. On Spanish Wikipedia, you can just add the empty infobox template, ficha, and it populates from Wikidata. I now have 10 edits under my belt at es.wikipedia. Fences&Windows 21:09, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Wonderful! Thanks.--S Philbrick(Talk) 00:24, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Note to self[edit]

Look up uses of,,,, Wikivisually, Wikivisual, Not reliable. Create William H. Sebrell, Jr, old scandal, Michael Scott (Chicago board of education), Steve Back? Fences&Windows 20:42, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

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Daesun Jinrihoe[edit]

I have finally worked on Daesun Jinrihoe. I have reorganized, updated, and expanded the entry, and restored the parts on "criticism" that had been deleted (presumably by members of the movement) but, when updated, are informative. I have maintained where consistent with the reorganization the previous material, and have included missing page numbers in already existing references.Aidayoung Aidayoung (talk) 13:45, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Nice work, Aidayoung! One IP user has been trying to santitise the article since last August. Fences&Windows 17:27, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
For coherence, I have also edited Jeung San Do (obviously written by members), Bocheonism and Gang Il-sun, and introduced a new entry JeungsanismAidayoung (talk) 17:57, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
Excellent, I had considered tackling those articles too years ago but balked at the task. Fences&Windows 18:37, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Jeung San Do can still be vastly improved. Will try to do when I will have time Aidayoung (talk) 17:58, 6 June 2017 (UTC)