User talk:Fingerpuppet/Archives/2009/February

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Welcome to the Wikipedia universe! --Bahar (Spring in Turkish) 23:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


Ashford, Kent

Ashford. No it isnt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BOBOBOB133 (talkcontribs) 16:23, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


Hi Fingerpuppet,

I noticed your comments left at the Greater Manchester Urban Area talk page and think you raise valid points.

I changed the first paragraph of the lead as previous users had not mentioned that it is defined by the ONS. However, yes your point raises that the second paragraph is a little.... vague in polite terms.

Please feel free to go ahead and alter this, as I certainly agree you raise not only a good point, but a valid issue which may help readers! If you are unfamiliar with how to use inline citation for article, just give me a shout at my talk page and we'll work something out!

If I may ask a more personal question (given your contributions)... are from the Gtr Mcr area? I'm curious to know as I work alot on articles relating to this region, but could do with knowing a few more contacts from this part of the world in an effort to consult users to keep things neutral and factual! Keep up the good work however, you're doing great! Jhamez84 02:00, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

--Great stuff you added to the GMUA article - it makes a lot more sense and sounds very much more professional. I just made a minor copyedit (cosmetic) and added a category. Thanks for the contributions, you're proving to know your stuff! Jhamez84 01:46, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

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Population of glasgow ==

I can see where you are coming from however in that case this information is out of date and serves no purpose. The population of Glasgow, the third largest city in the u.k, Glasgow is the only city with a population between 500,000 to 1 million. no other city not even leeds or liverpool is close to that. The "Greater glasgow" conurbation OTHERWISE known as the "clyde valley"!!!!!!!! is 1,750, is an urban is a conurbation. if you look the WORD definition up of conurbation, and compare this to the glasgow area you will see that The greater glasgow or clyde valley conurbation; of which glasgow is central to, has a population of 1,750,000. fact.Glasgowfinder (talk) 12:20, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


WikiProject West Midlands is active!

Hey, as you expressed your interest in participating in the West Midlands Wikiproject, I thought I should now tell you that is now active: Wikipedia:WikiProject West Midlands. If you are still interested, please add your name to the list of Participants.

I will be doing some tasks to get the project going such as created user templates and templates for articles as well as seeing if any more users and editors would be interested in participating. Thanks! - Erebus555 12:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Question on Second City

Nice query for TC, full of traps - but he seems strangely shy to answer for once, perhaps his tendancy to always at all times have the last word has limits, and you, Fingerpuppet, have discovered them. MarkThomas 22:00, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

And then again, perhaps I was out for the evening. TharkunColl 00:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I am astonished that your computer is ever unoccupied TC. MarkThomas 08:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Give me a chance!

Please don't leave cynical messages on my talk page. I thought I'd wait and give the conversation the benefit of a pause for a few cups of tea to wake me up, to be sure I didn't say anything I might regret. Its unfortunate you can't say the same. MRSCTalk 08:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

(Greater) Manchester WikiProject

Just a line to let you know that the consensus appears to be that this proposal be ammended to be a county-wide project. Given this, you may therefore be interested to register your interest. Thanks, Jhamez84 20:41, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

It's since been setup and is found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Greater Manchester! Jhamez84 01:12, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject West Midlands improvement drive

I wouldn't do this normally but the improvement drive nominations page has gone quiet all of a sudden. So, could you please add a nomination or support/object the current nomination on there. Thanks and happy editting! - Erebus555 21:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Midland Metro Route Map template

What do you think? Andy Mabbett 13:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Station codes, coordinates

You can now add three-letter codes and lat/long coordinates, to UK station articles. see Hamstead railway station for an example. Regards, Andy Mabbett 21:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Help needed with Black Patch Park article

Dear Fingerpuppet I am looking for help with getting an article on Black Patch park off the list of pieces facing deletion. Can you help? The general point that it reads too much like an essay is not very helpful. Does the whole article need rewriting or just some sections. is it a question of the whole style of the article or some specific edits? I am confused, especially as i have several other articles mainly by me on Wikipedia whihc one editor described as exemplary. Simon Baddeley 10:29, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

The article was tagged for cleanup and refernces; it was never "facing deletion". Andy Mabbett 11:29, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


Do you have cite for the Chasewater boundary changes, please? Not that I doubt you, but I've been trying to find the details for some time. Andy Mabbett 15:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Not on-line ones, though I have several OS Landranger sheets that show the changes. I can dig those out. Fingerpuppet 17:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

West Midlands map

No problem! I'm not from the area and am basing my map on several which give conflicting urban boundaries and (it seems) generallised motorway locations. I can't fix it without your feedback and knowledge and I do therefore appreciate it!!!

I'll fix these issues asap! Jhamez84 12:52, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I've made some fresh ammendments to this map. I'm sorry I missed your comment about an ONS map - found it then when I was archiving my talk page.
This shouldn't be a problem - I have a number of maps yet to produce (I'm aiming to get all the metropolitan counties to have their own infobox maps up and running), but would be happy to produce some then to improve the various Urban Area articles.
Feel free to highlight any problems with the new West Midlands map, found in places such as Dudley (I'm still struggling with the pointer calibration). Jhamez84 13:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Shrewsbury line

While the railway line does indeed run from Wolverhampton, not Birmingham, to Shrewsbury, the vast majority of the Central Trains services on it do run to/from Birmingham. Therefore the use of "Birmingham-Shrewsbury" in the previous/next station boxes in quite acceptable. --RFBailey 21:20, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Discussion invitation

I've created a new discussion page at Template talk:West Midlands railway stations/Layout discussion in order to discuss which of the suggested layouts should be used for this template. Please feel free to voice your opinions. – Tivedshambo (talk) 08:16, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Greater Manchester Urban Area

Hi Fingerpuppet,

As a user who's been closely involved in this field of Urban areas, I was wondering if you are familliar with two things:

1. Does a map of the Greater Manchester Urban Area (according to the last census of course) exist in the published realm? Or, even better, in the online realm?

2. Does any part of the (somewhat rural) civil parish of Saddleworth (Uppermill, Greenfield etc) form part of the Greater Manchester Urban Area?

If you know of the answers to these issues, I'd be eternally grateful if you could help, or at least point me in the right direction.

I've also noted your points you've raised about the WMs infobox map - I suspect there is a calibration error, though I can also fix Blackheath. Jhamez84 17:51, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much! That's a great help, and I really appreciate it!..... I'll try to fix the WM map asap. Jhamez84 22:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Wombourne Branch Line

See my reply on my talk page – Tivedshambo (talk) 02:54, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Wolverhampton and Walsall Railway

Great article! I've updated the RBS template to try to show more accurately where it joined. As far as I can see (from your article and from this map) it left the existing Walsall-Wolverhampton line after it diverges from the RBS line. IS this correct? I've also tweaked the Oxley chord to show it going under the RBS line.

I think the line must have closed in the 1970s, not 1980s. It's shown in my 1970 rail atlas, but the first edition of the Baker atlas, published in 1977, only shows a short siding at Wolverhampton, and the line only going from Walsall to Birchills power station at the other end. – Tivedshambo (talk) 09:58, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


Alright. Thanks for the correction. I think I might forget to edit until that date. :D R_Orange 15:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Disused stations in the West Midlands

Will do - but before I do, would it make more sense to create Category:Disused railway stations in Sandwell etc and move them to that, rather than restore the previous situation (which this move was intended to address) which was leaving them in the "Railway stations in..." categories along with the open stations? iridescenti (talk to me!) 20:04, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

It's actually only the W Mids that will be an issue - everywhere else, the "Railway stations in" parallel the counties, which I used as the basis for the "Disused railway stations in..." categories. I do think it's a problem that needed to be addressed, as in some places the fact that the disused stations are being listed alongside the open stations is ridiculously distorting the lists (check out Category:Railway stations in Gwynedd for example). For all the "disused" categories I've made them subcategories of "Railway stations in (county)", so for everywhere outside the W Mids there's no content being lost.
If you (or anyone else) don't raise an objection, I'll split the W Mids into Wolverhampton/Sandwell/Dudley/Birmingham (I think that will catch all of them), move the disused stations into those, but not restore "Railway stations in..." as a category; I agree that there are so many disused stations there that it warrants special treatment, and the alternatives will end up wildly skewing the open stations lists. Or would it make more sense to follow what's always been the case for London, where for example St Ann's Road railway station is categorised as Category:Disused railway stations in London and Category:Transport in Haringey? What I really want to avoid is setting a precedent for breaking up the London category into separate categories for the 33 boroughs with only one or two members each iridescenti (talk to me!) 21:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I've split the W Mids stations back into Wolverhampton, Birmingham etc and made them subcategories of West Midlands and Railway stations in... - hopefully that will be stable as a solution. Did Dr Beeching have something against Wolverhampton? iridescenti (talk to me!) 22:06, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
My personal favourite stealth closure is the Croxley Green branch - "temporarily closed for refurbishment" for eleven years, despite a respectable chunk of the line now covered by a bypass - closely followed by Denton with its mighty one-train-per-week (northbound only) service.
Do you have any opinions on splitting up Scotland/Wales in the same way I've done for England? iridescenti (talk to me!) 22:34, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, and I've decided to join the project to help out. My comments can be found in the relevant place. Fingerpuppet 22:53, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Oldham categories at Cfd

The question of whether 'Oldham' cats should be renamed to 'Metropoloitan Borough of Oldham' has been taken to CfD, see Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_June_9#Oldham. As far as I can tell, this renaming proposal would apply to Wigan, Stockport and all other metropolitan boroughs - UK-wide - that share a name with a town. Your contributions would be welcome. Mr Stephen 15:36, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

West Midlands map

Hello, thanks for the contact. I'm slowly getting back into editting again, and will be happy to take a look at the West Mids map. Leave it with me for a week or so, and I'll double check where the error seems to have occurred (it'll certainly be on my part though!).

I still intend to make maps for every county of England asap, I've just had an editting block of late!

Hope all is well, Jhamez84 11:55, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject West Midlands

Hi there, please can you help me with this?? Also, see the project talkpage for more info regarding the Walsall article (if you can help, then that's great!)

You help me with an article... I'll help you with one!! I suppose that's fair, isn't it??

If you're interested, leave a note on my talk page. --SunStar Net talk 13:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC) --SunStar Net talk 13:48, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

List of largest United Kingdom settlements by population

Hi. I'm not sure the entry for Bristol on this page is correct. If I look at the source provided, I see a different figure. Can you tell me where your figure comes from? Thanks SP-KP 23:01, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Perhaps the Bristol entry could have an explanatory note to point this out? SP-KP 23:16, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Regarding WM Region Map

Sure, I could easily change the Sandwell bit. I'm still rather confused on Telford; it is technically one town, right? I think all of the UA's are lacking room for me to type in their names, but I'll see if i can devise a method for making it clear. Chrisbayley 16:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I made the moficiations. Sandwell -> West Bromwich and added that Motorway near Birmingham. Chrisbayley 17:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: Second city of the United Kingdom - Request for Rational Debate

As a recent, and possibly significant, contributor to the Second city of the United Kingdom article, I'd like to direct your attention to this edit on the Talk Page regarding a Request for Rational Debate on the subject of the article. All the best. Sprigot 15:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Sigh! I don't think it is going to work. They can't even "keep the peace" for a day without attacking each other's supposed arguments. I'm even more convinced it will end in deletion or blocking of one or more editors. But I guess we need to see if they can surprise us.  DDStretch  (talk) 16:18, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

James Underwood (pathologist)

Many thanks for pointing out that Walsall and Birmingham are distinct entities. That was quick - a few days after creating this article. Part 18:50, 31 August 2007 (UTC) Perhaps you may be interested

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List of largest United Kingdom settlements by population

I am at a loss of what to do about this page now. People who clearly know nothing about the topic keep changing the figure for Cardiff. Should there be some sort of survey to clarify which is the correct figure? Marky-Son 16:03, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

It's very awkward - though it only ever seems to be places where the Urban sub-division is smaller than the local authority that seems to have a problem with it! I guess the only thing to do is keep patiently explaining the differences between the different ways of measuring, as people clearly aren't reading the lead section properly. I wonder if there is a way of totally rewriting the lead section to make it clearer? Fingerpuppet 16:55, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Well I see someone was confused about Bristol further up your talk page. Maybe some people don't like being told how small their city is. Maybe it would be good to use an example, such as Cardiff, in the lead section and break down the population of the city, urban area etc, so people can tell the difference. Words like urban subdivision are meaningless unless you're geographically-minded, and even settlement seems to be causing some bother so there must be some way of making it easier to understand. This seems to be a problem with Cardiff, because the difference between the different areas, in terms of population, is very small. Whereas with Birmingham, it's clear that it's just a section of the whole conurbation. Marky-Son 17:27, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


No worries, my wife, who comes from the town, made me promise to try and get it to FA status in return for allowing me to spend longer on the computer instead of being sociable :-) ChrisTheDude 20:46, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Horsley Fields Junction

Interesting that you should re-categorise Horsley Fields Junction as being to do with Transport in Wolverhampton. It is in Wolverhampton, but surely it is part of the wider transport network of the West Midlands? Thanks for checking my additions - I do need checking. Typing and thinking at the same time is too much :) Oosoom Talk to me 10:44, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

It is indeed part of the wider network, though not just in the West Midlands county, but also it's on the links out to Staffordshire and Shropshire via Aldersley and Autherley Junctions. The same comments could be made about, say, Wolverhampton railway station, and I just thought that it would be better placed in the more precise category. I won't complain too much if you disagree and feel that it should be moved back. Fingerpuppet 14:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

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WPGM Newsletter - November 2007

Rudget Contributions 17:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

December Newsletter, Issue III

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January Newsletter, Issue IV

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Major conurbations

Hello there Fingerpuppet,

I've been wondering for a while if it would be more appropriate to have a sub-page on England and the UK's conurbations, and transclude them onto their respective articles? These sections seem to be a hub for POV-ists, civic-vanity-ists and outright vandals, and contantly flash up on my watch list! The content could be put into a table page and semi-protected perhaps???? -- Jza84 · (talk) 14:27, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've gone ahead and transcluded the table for England (via Template:England conurbations). I think it should be semi-protected but we can see if this is messed with or not first I guess. Hopefully this should stop non-sense being added for a while. Might be worth watching this page. I'm not sure if the same should be done for the UK too. -- Jza84 · (talk) 17:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Looks like we don't have to wait [1]! Semi-protected. A job well done, even if I say so myself :P. -- Jza84 · (talk) 20:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

March Newsletter, Issue V

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West Mids map

Hello there! Thanks for the contact,

I did draw up the map for the West Mids county. However, I did not calibrate it (it's something way beyond my technical knowhow!). You might want to direct your query to User:Warofdreams who calibrated most of the county maps. If it turns out there is a problem with the image itself (which is possible, or even likely, as it was one of my first) please let me know and I'll try to fix it. --Jza84 |  Talk  23:33, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


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Greater Manchester WikiProject Newsletter

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UK Transport Wiki

I am currently developing a wiki about transport in the uk and i was wondering if you would like to help. please if so go to wikia:uktransport:User talk:Kentish121 and leave a message.

User:Tombrant Paler avec moi??? on behalf of Dudleybus Spake 2 me 14:37, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

June Newsletter, Issue VIII

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Greater Liverpool

Hello, just thought I'd give you a nudge about Talk:Greater Liverpool. I think it would be of interest to you. :) --Jza84 |  Talk  20:50, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Not sure what you are going on about but the information I have supplied is from ONS who are the ones behind the Liverpool Urban Area > who say they only do the statistics and they told me "ONS are responsible only for producing statistics for the Urban Areas as defined by the Department for Communities and Local Government. If you wish to comment on the boundaries you will need to contact them. Their email address is......." Dmcm2008 (talk) 00:21, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Liverpool Urban Area 'greater Liverpool

I am not sure how this works, but I am seeking additional opinions on the discussion on this page, I will abide by the general consensus. User JZA continues to undermine my edits and has done over a period. However I am only looking at opinions on the discussion page on Liverpool Urban Area if you are interested please leave your thoughts. There are two references on that page which have maps, and although this wider/greater Liverpool is unofficial the zone if you like is covered on these maps and they are just two examples. Hope you may offer something constructive. Thank you. Dmcm2008 (talk) 10:17, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Oxford Wikimania 2010 and Wikimedia UK v2.0 Notice


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WikiProject Greater Manchester September Newsletter, Issue IX

Delivered on 2 September 2008 by Nev1. If you do not wish to receive future newsletters, please add two *s by your username on the Project Mainpage.

Greater Glasgow

Hello there! I just wondered if you knew anything about Greater Glasgow? Namely:

  1. A list of localities that lie within its boundaries?
  2. If it is defined as a connurbation, urban area or metropolitan area?
  3. If East Kilbride lies within its extent?

There's been a small edit shuffle on East Kilbride and I think you're the man in the know who could tighten things up. Fingers crossed anyway! Hope all is well, --Jza84 |  Talk  01:14, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Greater Glasgow is one of those areas that is both an official conurbation, a group of local authorities and a term for a rough area!
East Kilbride is NOT within Greater Glasgow as defined by the General Register Office for Scotland (Scottish settlement data). I'll take a look at the Greater Glasgow article at my next opportunity. Fingerpuppet (talk) 08:01, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Thank you! It would be much appreciated. :) --Jza84 |  Talk  10:13, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Wow! That's a massive, massive help! Much clearer and much more helpful for our readers and editors alike! Thanks for taking a look at this, :) --Jza84 |  Talk  20:07, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey there

Thanks for backing me up in my question in the talk page of Manchester. The good people of the Manchester site didn't do as I (I thought) politely asked, so now I have to report them. They're boasting figures that aren't legitimate and can no longer continue to do so. --Tubs uk (talk) 22:03, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Greater Manchester October Newsletter, Issue X

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Hi there. I wonder if you could take a look at the discussion about census records on this link, and if you knew where I could find more extensive modern records on the town? Right now I can't find 1981 and 1991 population records, or any individual records regarding employment in 2001 (manufacturing, textiles, etc). Kind Regards Parrot of Doom (talk) 23:40, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I just wanted to thank you for the extra data you provided, and the excellent inline citations which I doubt I could have made quite so neatly :) I'm beginning to wonder if there are any post-1974 employment records for areas smaller than a borough - I'm not sure they exist at all. Parrot of Doom (talk) 11:16, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks - it does appear to provide figures for Radcliffe, but percentages rather than numbers. That's fine as I can easily work out the figures I need though, and it also provides a good example of what Radcliffe's current industry is, it should help me complete the economy section. Presumably it's ok to mix employment figures from different sources, so long as they're separately referenced? Parrot of Doom (talk) 18:39, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Doh, I just noticed the other sheet that gives numbers, not percentages! Parrot of Doom (talk) 19:39, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to bring this link to your attention, which was sent to me by Bury council. I don't know if its of interest you are anyway :) Parrot of Doom (talk) 17:09, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Greater Manchester November Newsletter, Issue XI

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Hi thanks for the back-up on Leeds article. I do not know why new users head for Leeds and bring up the similar arguments for merging the articles, this user has done edits in Wales then suddenly changed to Leeds. May be they are all the same person just stirring it up because they cannot get their own way. Keith D (talk) 23:57, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi again, looks like we have a set of socks here as this is this new users only edit and yet they pick up on the same theme. Keith D (talk) 18:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Greater Manchester December Newsletter, Issue XII

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WikiProject Greater Manchester January Newsletter, Issue XIII

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Commuter rail in the United Kingdom

Hi, I'd appreciate your input on the matter on Talk:Commuter rail in the United Kingdom. Thanks Welshleprechaun (talk) 00:33, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Mixing and Matching population figures from censuses and from other non-census estimates

Hello, Jza84 suggested you may be able to help out here. There is a discussion about the form of words to use to describe population figures in Leeds where figures from the 2001 census are compared with figures from estimates about 2007. No flagging about their different status (estimate by means other than census versus estimate which is the census figure) was originally made in the text. I was told that Manchester seems to also not flag up the status of 2007 estimates separately from the census, and the discussion can be followed by looking at the editing history of Leeds here and here, User talk:Ddstretch#Leeds, and Talk:Manchester#The second sentence. Do you have a view on the matter of the wording and the comparisons that might then be done by readers? If you had it could shed some light on what might be the better way forwards. Thanks.  DDStretch  (talk) 20:53, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Greater Manchester February Newsletter, Issue XIV

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Eccles, Greater Manchester

Hi again. I wonder if you have anything to help me fill out the population table on this article? A Vision of Britain has hardly anything. If you have a file you could email me, I'd happily enter the details myself. Parrot of Doom (talk) 21:12, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll see what I can dig out - it's not unusual for population data to be sketchy before 1901, as that's the first census for which post-1888 local authorities are available, and before that you end up looking for Ancient Parish data and the like. Fingerpuppet (talk) 11:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)