User talk:Freechild/Archive2

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ARCHIVE 2 April 10, 2007 to June 28, 2007

Civil Rights Movement in Omaha, Nebraska [edit]

I scanned over this (will read in detail later), and it is extremely professionally done! This is exactly how a Wikipedia article should be built! Thank you for your contribution. Simesa 17:56, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

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Mediation Request[edit]

I've responded to your request for assistance from the Mediation Cabal. The case page, in case you haven't got it written down, is located here. Please read over and respond to my comments there. If you feel you need to contact me privately, please ask me for an email address via my talk page. Thanks! --Moralis (talk) 02:12, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Youth rights are human rights[edit]

In Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Human_rights You wrote

Hello all. There is definitely a ton of info out there to justify this project, and I'm sure the users will come pouring in. I would like to join the WikiProject Human Rights, and in doing so, I want to usher in a formidible analysis that has been excluded from the Project so far: Youth rights. There are a large number of articles in Wikipedia that deal with the many angles of youth rights, and I will include them as well. - Freechild 04:48, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I have responded

I somewhat agree, inasmuch as there could be justification for placing articles to do with Enforced Child Migration, Enforced institutionalisation of indigenous children, Child slavery, Child welfare and Child employment related articles into the scope of a project.
I think such a category has some wide scope to consider the following sort of articles for adoption into the project:
During the 20th century, many countries enacted various eugenics policies and programs, including:


petedavo 03:48, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of List of Communists in Omaha, Nebraska[edit]

An article that you have been involved in editing, List of Communists in Omaha, Nebraska, has been listed by me for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Communists in Omaha, Nebraska. Thank you.

Generally I think your edits are excellent (I said so on your editor review a while back I think), but IMO this list is too indiscriminate, leaves out too many people (a town Omaha's size would have had hundreds if not thousands of CP/IWW members), and seems to confuse communism with socialism (Lawrence Klein a communist?). - iridescenti (talk to me!) 20:21, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll retract that about the multiple-user account (and strike it through etc) - just seemed you had different writing styles on different articles you'd created, but I guess you could say that about plenty of people (including me - compare Metcall and Ed Ball (musician)). - iridescenti (talk to me!) 18:57, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks[edit]

Thank you, we might do that.Earthistyouth 22:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Zoo Bar (Halifax, West Yorkshire)[edit]

Thanks for improving that article. I did a quick search for more information when I made the split, but couldn't find anything. I'm glad someone came along with enough knowledge to make it a viable article. Also, do you have any knowledge about the other Zoo Bars out there? I noticed several in my searches...

Regards, BierHerr 15:06, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Youth[edit]

Is there a good reason why this article has two "See also" sections? (I suspect it's a mistake.) --orlady 18:49, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Re : List of Communists in Omaha, Nebraska[edit]

The page as have userfied as per your request. Once you no longer require it, please tag it for speedy deletion. - Best regards, Mailer Diablo 11:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Youth Leaders International[edit]

Thanks for the heads up. It was a prod notice so I guess it is contested. Time to take it to AfD I think. Cheers,Mattinbgn/ talk 21:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

You can find it here - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Youth Leaders International. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 21:52, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Zoo Bar, Halifax[edit]

Hi Freechild! You probably noticed I did some editing on the article. I though it would be polite to let you know that I have now removed the reference that contained a link to the UK City Guide. This is because I have discovered it is classed as a Spam website and is always getting removed from other articles by admins and editors, along with its sister websites from the same source. Richard Harvey 09:29, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello Richard, and thank you for the note regarding the edits to the Zoo Bar article. I have inserted citations to articles that support some of the comments in the "Effects" section. You are scrupulous about references, and that is great; I hope these fit your mark. Thanks for your hard work on the article. - Freechild 09:43, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Hazard Stevens[edit]

I think I understand the motivation for adding the caveat to the sentence "Stevens and P.B. Van Trump made the first documented successful climb of Mount Rainier by a European American on August 17, 1870." However I think it is incorrectly specific, are there any documented climbs by non European Americans? -- Patleahy 17:34, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I had considered adding a sentence to say Native Americans may have made undocumented climbs of the mountain. However Haines' book (cited in the article) describes the local tribes members being afraid of venturing high on the mountain so I decided not to assume they climbed the mountain. I am aware that Haines has a rather unenlightened view of Native American which may have clouded his writings. -- Patleahy 17:58, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Smiley.svg In the interest of promoting good cheer and bonhomie, you are hereby granted the coveted:
Random Smiley Award
Originated by: Pedia-I
(Explanation and Disclaimer)

Let's talk[edit]

I'm the person who added the edit that claimed that Omaha Central High School in on the National Register of Historic Places - an edit that you removed. Here is my opinion on the subject. In support of your edit you included two links, " According to two sources([1] and [2]) Central is not on the NRHP." . First of all, your first link is using wikipedia to support another wikipedia edit and that is . . .... suspect. The second link that you add has nothing to do with the National Register of Historic Places, so is pretty irrelevant (another opinion of mine). The place to look (yet another opinion of mine) for this sort of thing is [3] here, where you will find the school listed as Building - #79003684. Now back to your first link, the wikipedia one. If you will look at it a little closer you'll find the school there, cunningly disguised as Omaha High School. However, if you, an experienced wikipedian can't make that leap what chance does a novice have? However there is good news. As a form of penance for your insensitive editing your task is to do some real original research and discover who the sculptor was that created the sculpture in the pediment of the school building and let me know. Life is supposed to be interesting. Carptrash 15:20, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

GUILT, according to the CarpDictionary (1997 edition) is " An attempt by someone who is not standing on firm footing to induce someone else who might be on even shakier ground to do something." But, as I frequently find myself saying, "Well, you can't blame a guy for trying." Carptrash 20:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Aging out[edit]

I found this interesting article, and thought it might be useful to you. If not, then I apologize. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/01/EDGTLOS9C21.DTL&hw=foster+care&sn=006&sc=418 Lindentree 11:30, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

List of jazz clubs[edit]

I've speedily deleted List of jazz clubs because it was previously deleted in an AFD discussion. You'll need to go to deletion review to contest the previous deletion, rather than simply recreate the article; stating the list may never be complete pretty much brings up the question asked by the AFD nominator. --Coredesat 22:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

You'll need to open the DRV first. I'll restore the history for the review. --Coredesat 05:41, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Omaha Black Music Hall of Fame[edit]

Hi Freechild. Nice job on Omaha Black Music Hall of Fame! Well done. Thanks.
Note that, so far, there has only been the one group of inductions - in 2005. (There was no ceremony, nor inductions, in 2006). However, a ceremony is planned for 2007. (I can't remember where I saw the announcement; I'll add a link here when I find it again.)
I had in mind to have lists of inductees by year. (e.g. most of L.A. Carnival were inducted, but you've only mentioned Arno and Lester.) Are you OK with that?
I noticed you've added OBMHoF to "Museums in Nebraska". Is there a physical place called OBMHoF? If so, do you know where it is located? If not, should it be in the Museums list?
Cheers, Pdfpdf 01:19, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

———

Wow! You're distressingly efficient, and I'm most impressed! Thanks for the HoF explanation. For reasons that I don't fully understand myself, I have an interest in L.A. Carnival. I can find information on L.A. himself, but can't find anything significant about the other members. Given that many of them were inducted into the OBMHoF, presumably at least some of them are "significant" people(?) So if you can find out anything about them, that would be good. Also, the L.A. and L.A. Carnival pages are still under construction. If you'd like to work your magic on those pages, I'd be most greatful. Pdfpdf 04:36, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

———

Mmmmm. Well, obviously, I'm biassed, but I would have thought co-writing a grammy winning song, and arranging another song which was a grammy winner would be notable? And as I asked: "Given that many of them were inducted into the OBMHoF, presumably at least some of them are "significant" people(?)". (Or isn't being inducted into the OBMHoF all that notable?) (From South Australia it's rather difficult to judge these things ...)
Regarding "L.A. Carnival" and "The Les Smith Soul Band", you probably have a good point. Perhaps merge them back into Lester Abrams?
(And thanks for your magic!) Pdfpdf 05:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

———

More good advice. Thanks. Gotta do some other stuff now - be back tomorrow. Pdfpdf 05:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

———

Regarding "L.A. Carnival" and "The Les Smith Soul Band", perhaps merge them back into Lester Abrams? Pdfpdf 00:04, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

———

"Merge the 3 articles"? Lester Abrams and L.A. Carnival. Which is the third? Pdfpdf 01:38, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

———

Hi again,
"FYI, I have ran into some resistance from other editors over using bullet points in articles, as it appears less encyclopedia-like." Yes, there are a lot of people with a lot of opinions. After some initial "robust discussion", I subsequently decided to take the path of least resistance!
"Consequently I've become accustomed to "paragraphizing" everything I write in WP. I tried this a little bit with the L.A. article, but with all the (awesome amount of) details you've added, I don't want to step on your prose." That's OK by me. Feel free to do whatever you think will cause us both the the least resistance from others. I've had a bit of difficulty getting it to look reasonable; maybe resorting to bullets wasn't the answer ...
"Great job on this article!" Thanks. I'm surprised how intertwined the lives of these guys are, and how much they've done. I've lost count of the number of albums and artists Rick Chudacoff has been associated with, but, in general, "nobody's ever heard of him". I'm also surprised that after 35 years, L.A. and Les Smith are still working together.
But most of all, I can't seem to find anything about anyone (other than Chudacoff) in the 1980s and 1990s. Do you have any leads? Pdfpdf 08:35, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

———

Well, I think that's about all I'm going to do on Lester Abrams for a while. Cheers, Pdfpdf 13:36, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

World-Herald series on race in Omaha[edit]

I don't know if you read the World-Herald regularly in your search for Omaha information, but the paper has begun an excellent series on the racial divide in Omaha. The most recent article is available here. – Swid (talk | edits) 14:45, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up Swid; it probably would've taken me a while to catch it otherwise. I appreciate it. - Freechild 16:49, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

NRHP infoboxes[edit]

I noticed you've been doing a number of articles on National Register properties in Omaha. There's just one thing I'd like to mention: The "nrhp_type" field in the infobox should be set to "nhl" only if the building is a National Historic Landmark, which is a higher recognition than just being on the National Register of Historic Places. (Here's the list of National Historic Landmarks in Nebraska.) If it isn't a National Historic Landmark, then nrhp_type should just be set to "nrhp" or left blank. That way, the articles won't get classified into the wrong category. Otherwise, keep up the good work. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 23:03, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

History of slavery in Nebraska[edit]

Just filled in a redlink from the template on the bottom. Thought I'd make sure you saw it. Best, Smmurphy(Talk) 19:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

High school graduation examination[edit]

Hi. You stuck an NPOV tag on this article (for obvious reasons) w/o explaining it on the talkpage. When you get a second could you do that? Thanks. - Freechild 23:30, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

If the reason is obvious, then I don't see what more I have to add. If it's obvious to you but you feel it needs explaining, feel free to do so. -- Beland 00:23, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Sources on lists[edit]

I've seen lists with citations done on the same line as the entry, and I think that's probably the best practice. I think a citation would be absolutely necessary when there is not one in the article. Those are my thoughts, but I can't tell you I'm any more right than anybody else is. Erechtheus 04:47, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

moving pages[edit]

I just noticed you moved Landmarks of Omaha, Nebraska. At the risk of being impersonal, WP:MOVE describes the "best" way to move pages like this. The idea is that if you move a page by creating a new page, merging the contents of the old page, and then making the old page a redirect, you lose the "edit history" (or you at least make it harder to find). This isn't the worst thing in the world, but using the "move" button avoids this, and is a lot more fun. Hopefully that makes sense and is helpful. Best, Smmurphy(Talk) 07:35, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that point. I had to list it with the admins since I'd already started the new article, but that process should play itself out correctly. Thanks again. – Freechild (Hey ya. | edits) 16:09, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
But for moves that are just to conform with naming conventions, or are otherwise non-controversial, you don't really need to bring it up for discussion on the talk page or with a {{moveto}} tag. Also, when you move pages with the move button, I think that it updates everyone's watchlist, so that is a plus, too. Putting it on requested moves was smart, though. It will be fixed pretty quick, probably (someday when we are all admins, it will be even quicker). Smmurphy(Talk) 16:46, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I had to list it since I had already created the recipient page (Landmarks in Omaha). I tried to do the labor but got blocked by the system. So it goes... – Freechild (Hey ya. | edits) 17:08, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Historic Places[edit]

Hello. Why did you put the Registered historic places in Omaha on the First National of Nebraska page? I was looking through the list and I don't see anything that would apply to this company.

Congratulations on a job well done![edit]

Editors Barnstar.png The Editor's Barnstar
When Culture in Omaha, Nebraska was listed for deletion, it had zero cited references. Thanks to your tireless efforts, it now has 41, so I closed the discussion early. Keep up the good work, and consider informing the Wikipedia community of your wonderful discoveries via the Did you know? feature on the Main Page. Best regards. YechielMan 07:27, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Mogollon, New Mexico[edit]

Hi, I've nominated an article you worked on, Mogollon, New Mexico, for consideration to appear on the Main Page as part of Wikipedia:Did you know. You can see the hook for the article at Template talk:Did you know#Articles created on June 11 where you can improve it if you see fit. Regards, howcheng {chat} 20:02, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Omaha templates[edit]

I want your opinion on the following idea:

There are two templates (that I know of) for the Omaha area:

and

. It looks like there is some overlap between the two, which is probably partly my idea, but I didn't discover the second until recently. I think the first should be strictly places in Omaha proper and the second for all suburbs and the Omaha article itself.

BTW, a lot of your articles should be DYK material. Keep up the good work! DandyDan2007 21:39, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

  • I agree. I've noticed the redundancy before and thought there should be something done, but not sure what. I think that isolating Omaha's neighborhoods will allow editors to find what they want to in the template, and encourage more editors to add their piece. I would also encourage more development of local neighborhood templates, as appropriate, i.e. Template:Florence - but I'm not sure how to seed that. But, so far as your idea, I support it. Thanks for asking. – Freechild (BoomCha) 22:37, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
    • Sounds good. I'll add the second template to all the articles listed on it, as well as select other ones (like Offutt AFB or Chalco) as soon as I get around to it, with all the other stuff I do on here. Although I'm not sure how Eagle, Nebraska qualifies as being in the Omaha-CB area (its 15 miles from downtown Lincoln.) DandyDan2007 06:39, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
      • There has to be a reliable source that designates the boundaries - if not the communities - within the metro area. – Freechild (BoomCha) 14:25, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
        • DandyDan2007, I am going to turn the first into "Neighborhoods of Omaha" then. It seems like we'll have the bases covered at that point. Thanks for collaborating with me. – Freechild (BoomCha) 22:28, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Mogollon, New Mexico[edit]

Updated DYK query On 17 June, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Mogollon, New Mexico, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 00:12, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On June 21, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Little Italy (Omaha, Nebraska), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Hi Freechild and thanks for all your hard work getting Omaha on the front page. Keep it up! Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:39, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

North Omaha Hip Hop[edit]

Hey man, do you know anything about hip hop from omaha/north omaha? there seems to be a sizable collection of underground hip hop (like underground hardcore, not "indie") cds/tapes floating around. It would make an interesting addition to the Culture of North Omaha section. Claphands 23:32, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Merging National Trails System Act into National Trails System[edit]

I have repurposed merging National Trails System Act into National Trails System. When this was last proposed it was included in three other proposed merges which you objected to. Your reasoning for objecting didn't apply to this particular merge so I would be interested in hearing your opinion at Talk:National Trails System#Merge from National Trails System Act. -- Patleahy 18:16, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Status offense[edit]

I think I explained why. I don't have the mind-power today to fix it, and may need help. Plus, we're in the middle of a HUGE thunderstorm, and my server may crash if we get blacked out, so I don't want to start a major project this moment. Bearian 22:59, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I made changes to my satisfaction, so it's done. I removed the tag. Bearian 12:49, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Renaming Category:Historic houses in Omaha[edit]

I noticed there's a CFD for renaming Category:Historic houses in Omaha, though there's no clear consensus yet on what to do. I suggested renaming it Category:Omaha Landmarks, since it looks like most of the houses in that category are listed by the City of Omaha's Landmarks Heritage Preservation Commission. Do you have any thoughts on that? --Elkman (Elkspeak) 21:06, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Thank you for your compliments regarding the "historic house" categories. I have found some of the discussions particularly difficult to deal with, and I really appreciate your encouragement. Dr. Submillimeter 08:15, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

DYK[edit]

Updated DYK query On 22 June, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Battle of Tularosa, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Yomanganitalk 13:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Category:Omaha Landmarks[edit]

Could you write an explanation in Category:Omaha Landmarks to explain how it is different from Category:Landmarks in Omaha, Nebraska? The two categories are confusing. Dr. Submillimeter 20:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Please let me know if the fixes I made work; otherwise, queue me in to how it might work better. Thanks. – Freechild (BoomCha) 20:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
That description that you added to Category:Omaha Landmarks is very clear. Hopefully, no other changes are needed. Dr. Submillimeter 15:19, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Request for comments on Music in Omaha.[edit]

Hi Pdfpdf. Since you've done quite a bit of work on articles relevant to Omaha's music scene, you might be interested in Music in Omaha. I'd appreciate it if you'd take a look at it and add to it if you see fit. I would dread the thought that I missed adding anything. – Freechild (BoomCha) 15:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Freechild! Good to hear from you, and thanks for the news. You put your message in one of my archives, and I only just noticed it - so sorry for the delayed reply.

I will take great pleasure in "taking a look at it". (BTW: I'm paying attention to your request not to split the conversation, which, btw, I think is a good idea - I'll probably steal a copy of your text!). And thanks for the licence to "fiddle with it". If I make any changes that you don't like, don't hesitate to revert them - I won't be offended. (I might be puzzled! But I won't be offended.)

I would dread the thought that I missed adding anything. - Sorry to disillusion you, but even before I look I can just about guarantee that you've missed something! ;-) (I assume you've heard of Murphy's Law?)

I've had a quick look, and my first reaction was "Having a quick look is inadequate. I need to devote some time to this". My second reaction was "Surf Music in Omaha?????". It seems the old adage "You learn something new every day" continues to be true!
Regards, Pdfpdf 09:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
P.S. The OBMHoF web site maintenance seems to have been completed, and the web site seems be working.

-----

OK! I've started! This is harder than I expected!!
I've made some changes, and put some comments/questions at User talk:Pdfpdf/Music in Omaha
Pdfpdf 11:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for everything you've done. I really appreciate the notes you wrote up, and I'm still working from them... quick question: If a person doesn't write "1940 to 1961", what do they write? – Freechild (BoomCha) 14:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Good question! Generally one would indeed write "1940 to 1961", (and one would mean "from 1940 to 1961 inclusive"). However, it can be ambiguous. The only way to be certain is to use the whole phrase, which, of course, nobody does. (Unless it's really important to be absolutely clear.) (By-the-way: I think what I've just written is a very unsatisfactory answer, even if it is accurate.) So, the choice is yours! Either X thru Y, which is unambiguous but not used outside USA, or X to Y, which is generally quite clear, but not always. (I bet you'll never ask me another question!) Pdfpdf 08:57, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Pdfpdf, since you've done a ton of work on topics I'm interested in, consider me a resource for you: If you ever want assistance with an article like Famecity let me know. I specialize in finding the notability of obscure - but notable - places, people and companies. Besides, I like to help. – Freechild (BoomCha) 14:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

That's very kind of you. Thank you. Pdfpdf 08:57, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Question about FameCity, though: I'm finding what appears to be two separate companies with this name. Which is the one you are interested in: The one in Canada, referenced here, or the one in the UK started by the brothers from The Wades? Let me know... – Freechild (BoomCha) 16:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I looked at the history of The Wades and found you. Alright, that answers that question... although it still makes me wonder about the FameCity Entertainment cited here. Oh well. About FameCity, I cannot find any evidence of any activity after 2000, or anything beyond The Wades' last album. You? Oh, and I think its pathetic the way they speedy deleted your article. – Freechild (BoomCha) 16:15, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, UK. Yes, because of The Wades. Yes, the Canadian reference is enticing! Also, there are two German sites - no, that's too grand - two German pages with not much on them and next-to-nothing behind them: www.famecity.de and www.famecity-entertainment.com - not highly useful. And Yes, I'm far from impressed with the way the speedy delete jugernaut, once started, seems impossible to stop. Seeing that The Wades seemed to be the only users of Famecity Entertainment, and both Famecity and The Wades seem to be inactive, maybe the answer is to put anything about Famecity on The Wades page? Unless we can find something more notable, I'd say that, by itself, Famecity probably fails the notability test? Your thoughts? Cheers, Pdfpdf 08:57, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

DYK[edit]

Updated DYK query On 25 June, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Tom Dennison (Political boss), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri 15:04, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Tom Dennison[edit]

I just wanted to say excellent work on the Tom Dennison article! Ardric47 20:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Culture in Omaha, NE[edit]

Hey, I made an attempt at redoing the culture section on the main Omaha page: tore out some weird stuff, added in some refs from the culture article, did some sprucing up... Check it out when you have time (translation: clean up after me). I'd like to know if you think we should go even farther with this... maybe pull Sports out of Culture and move it up a level? etc. Regards, BierHerr 02:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Logan Fontenelle[edit]

Updated DYK query On 27 June, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Logan Fontenelle, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 18:35, 27 June 2007 (UTC)