User talk:FruitMonkey/Archive 5

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Hello FruitMonkey

I live and work in Ewloe and it is clear some facts on the page are incorrect one being that the Old Co-op is in Hawarden, but it clearly is not, also the fact about the Co-op mile is required as it is used often by locals to direct people including interlopers. Moote (talk) 06:03, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

West Block House Point Beacons, Milford Haven[edit]

Please could you reinstate this article, as it is part of the List of Lighthouses in Wales series, and comprises one of the lights leading ships into Milford Haven. You can find an entry for it in The Lighthouses of Wales, by Douglas Hague at p 82. Many thanks. Vouliagmeni (talk) 21:50, 11 November 2010 (CET)

David Watts Morgan[edit]

Excellent work on the article FM. How about putting it through peer review? It must be way better than start class now, surely.--Pondle (talk) 15:44, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't know David Underdown so I'll leave you to make contact with him FM. But if it's OK with you I'll kick off the peer review process right now. Cheers,--Pondle (talk) 19:20, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Urdd National Eisteddfod[edit]

Hi again, FM. From the WP-en angle, wouldn't it be preferable to open the article: The Urdd National Eisteddfod (Welsh: Eisteddfod Genedlaethol Urdd Gobaith Cymru or Eisteddfod Genedlaethol yr Urdd) is an annual. . .etc. Anyway, I leave that to your excellent judgment. While I'm at it, I find it strange there is no online follow-through giving results or at least a wrap-up report on each venue/event. Presumably, though, there are other library sources. I see, too, that an excessive amount of the Urdd Eisteddfod is duplicated in a section under Eisteddfod. Perhaps this would be better if cut down and treated as a 'Main article' link, eh? Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 04:26, 28 August 2010 (UTC)


I'm all for it. Have you mentioned it on the Welsh wikipedians' notice board? Deb (talk) 06:59, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I was just thinking. When I started on wikipedia, in about 2003, the article on Wales was about two paragraphs, and the history section said that Wales was invaded by Romans and then by the Saxons (!) and then by the Normans. Deb (talk) 07:01, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
I also think it's a good idea FM, you might also like to alert Bettia, Velela and Seth Whales (if they don't see the noticeboard message).--Pondle (talk) 10:35, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
A lot of work has gone into the article. I have slightly changed the LEDE. I am a little busy at the moment to do much work on the article, however best of does look good to me though. My view is that the non-free images of the NHS Wales (this also does not have a non-free use rationale to it for use on the Wales article), Cymdeithas yr Iaith and the "Welsh" One Pound coin should be removed, as they are not needed for the article. However this is only my view. SethWhales talk 20:35, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Though a lifetime expat, I have close ties and have worked on articles like Tonypandy, Aberaeron, Llanerchaeron, Llanon, Tregaron, Mumbles, Tommy Farr, etc, etc, and I have a lot of good pics from my occasional visits. So I'll have a good look. However, I'll consult with you before jumping in with anything radical. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 03:14, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Blair Swannell[edit]

The article Blair Swannell you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold Symbol wait.svg. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Blair Swannell for things which need to be addressed. Brad78 (talk) 13:28, 30 August 2010 (UTC)


Take a read of this article, I put it as a ref under the infobox mainly for others to see. It has Swannell's Northhampton cap total listed as 116 etc, as well as some other material that could be useful. The citation is a stretch for verifiability but the guys at that forum are serious researchers IMO. Maybe this would be a base for finding the verifiable source from which they drew. Also some greater detail on the details around his death. BTW the field in the Infobox is useless as the rugby bio box does not allow for Ameteur club points and caps etc. Anyways I am off to bed... Happy editing.SauliH (talk) 07:49, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Another piece to read that may substantiate the claims he made of being in Uruguay is here: [1]SauliH (talk) 19:55, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I can't imagine Moran and Swannell would have ever enjoyed each others company. Polar opposite personalities. I would love to read that book too. Agree with the relics link. I actually am beginning to believe he actually did all the things he bragged about, but he was a social incompetent, in that he would talk about himself and inflate those exploits, and bore everyone to tears. The article Turned Down Cold is amusing to read... he comes across in the report like a three year old who could not have his way. SauliH (talk) 01:32, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Okay with leaving alone. I think the one glaring weakness in the article is detailing his playing history in club and province/state. I come across snippets, but nothing to hang a citation on.SauliH (talk) 20:41, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
oh and "ladies man"... agree... maybe women were different back then?!SauliH (talk) 20:44, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

DYK for David Watts Morgan[edit]

Materialscientist (talk) 00:29, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Watcyn Thomas[edit]

According to the Felinfoel RFC website, a W Thomas was a Wales Senior International for them between 1927–33. I assume this is Watcyn Thomas, but there's no mention of Felinfoel RFC in his article, any ideas? Cheers. P.S. Do you know who the "I S Gallagher" is on the Felinfoel RFC website? DynamoDegsy (talk) 21:27, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Mid Rhondda F.C.[edit]

Thanks for the note - glad to be of help. Do you have a publisher and ISBN for the book you have referenced to? Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 21:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


Hey FruitMonkey I don't have Viewless Minds, although I have a published collection of RU essays which I've used as a source at times and which quotes significantly from Viewless Minds. The snippets about Blair Swannell are, as you say, less than complimentary about him from an Austn perspective but unfortunatley are just snippets. On of those articles, which focused on RU players who fell in the Great War, maliciously suggested he might have been shot in the back by his own men in the Dardanelles !! I'll see if I can add anything. -Sticks66 02:06, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

FM, I saw your note about trying to get a hold of a copy of Moran's book. There is a copy at the University library back home in Australia ( I am in the US), and so I am seeing if anyone in my FB circle of friends would do a favor. If case someone comes forward do you know what pages we should get a copy of? I hesitate to ask them to copy a whole ton of pages, but who knows, maybe they would. I will let you know if someone comes forward. SauliH (talk) 03:14, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
congrats in return... I think the key was having the old newspapers... Their recent availability has opened up a whole load of material that can be used... without it, these old players would be a lot harder to research and write about... I am working on the British tour of Australia in 1899 presntly, and it is helping immensely there too. I will have you take a look at it (if you do not mind), and rework some of my prose and get your thoughts after I get some more done.SauliH (talk) 21:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Cheers man. No problem at all. It's a pleasure to read and review an article like that. Brad78 (talk) 21:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Wales - branch factory economy[edit]

Hi, you took out the reference to a 'branch factory' economy,[2] I'm curious why... the cite does refer to it, see page 8:

Gross-value added (GVA) per job in Wales is below the UK average in part reflecting a relatively unfavourable occupation and industry mix. This has also been associated with the legacy of a “branch factory” economy, which suggests the need to develop policies to attract higher added-value inward investments to Wales...

I think the phrase is useful, it was used in the Assembly Government's 2002 economic development strategy (A Winning Wales) and its 2005 successor (Wales A Vibrant Economy) and regularly mentioned in discussions of the Welsh economy in the years when reliance on FDI was the key policy concern. I can dig those old policy docs out if you like.--Pondle (talk) 23:13, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's another source, talks about how inward investment to South East Wales has historically been dominated by branch plants.[3]--Pondle (talk) 23:23, 11 September 2010 (UTC)


Campus! Diolch! Deb (talk) 20:56, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Alec Timms[edit]

hmmm. To me that makes it so misleading (the year range thing). Particularly for someone like Timms, where there was a sizeable gap between selection years. I'm okay with it, but not a fan of it. Could an exception be made where there is a gap of years of say three or more years. SauliH (talk) 17:12, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Fair enoughSauliH (talk) 18:15, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Martelli/1899 tour[edit]

You will probably note my sorry attempt at adding a notation about the University/Wanderers discrepancy. If you know what historians claim University, then maybe adding that to the ref would help. SauliH (talk) 02:23, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

If you would cast an eye over the team list section some time too... I have not the foggiest whether Gloucester is different to Gloucestershire. What is a club, regional team. I also made a presumption the Scottish trials in the source material meant trial matches for Scotland: partly due to the lower case 't' for trials that was in the source. If that is incorrect, then it needs to be changed. I have done what I can to form the material in this section, and a cleanup and checkup is probably called for. Thanks. SauliH (talk) 03:18, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
...wikilinking to the clubs etc too.
Too weird... I had just finished entering the English team for the Toowoomba match from that exact link, and I hit save, and you had beat me to it! I couldn't work out why the text looked so similar when the edit conflict popped up - to what I had just typed, until I opened another tab on the browser and noticed your edits... I am off to bed too late for me to be up and doing this now. Happy editing. SauliH (talk) 07:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

History of Wales[edit]

Hi, I agree with you totally re: the unbalanced nature of the modern history section at Wales, and I'd like to re-write it in a chronological order. However, I don't want to lose any of your excellent work on "Industrial Wales". It strikes me that this could really improve the main History of Wales article, could you please paste it in over there? I'm reluctant to do it myself in a WP:BOLD fashion because you obviously spent a long time researching and writing it!--Pondle (talk) 09:12, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Bando (sport)[edit]

RlevseTalk 06:02, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Alec Boswell Timms and the Geelong Football Club[edit]

Hi, I'm interested to know how you came to the conclusion that Alec Boswell Timms played for the Geelong Football Club as the citation you gave, does not mention this fact. Google also returns nothing and there is no mention of him in either the Geelong or VFL/AFL player histories. I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt but will delete this fact unless a suitable source can be found. Thanks. --Rulesfan (talk) 06:13, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Tonypandy Riots[edit]

Hi. Congratulations on all your work on the Tonypandy Riots. Given your interest in this topic area I hope you won't mind my respectfully reminding you that Clement Attlee is spelt thus, with two Ts in his surname. Thanks and best wishes, DBaK (talk) 01:35, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Request for assistance[edit]

Hello. I saw you were involved in nominating an article over at the GAN politics section, and just want to ask you kindly if you could be willing to help me out a bit. I have nominated an article myself (Progress Party (Norway)), and it is close to being approved as a GA, but according to the reviewer the article needs a good copyedit from a native English speaker before it can be passed. So, I just want to ask you if you could help with (strictly) copyediting the article. I don't want you to feel any "pressure", but if you could help it would be great! Regards, -TheG (talk) 11:42, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Last native Prince of Wales[edit]

Saw you removed reference to Owain Glyndŵr as the last native Prince of Wales. As you say: an interesting one. There are several references for Glyndŵr, but a Google search of the phrase shows there are other contenders. Most reputable sources give Llywelyn (d.1282) as the last native Prince of Wales. A few give Dafydd ap Gruffudd (d. 1283). And some Glyndŵr. But most histories of Wales seem to note one of the three as the 'last native Prince of Wales', and so should Wikipedia. Perhaps all three should be mentioned in the spirit of NPOV. Daicaregos (talk) 07:42, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Roman era[edit]

Your fine efforts on improving the entire article are noted with admiration and I appreciate your work in improving and tightening the Roman era section (if I wrote it, you can safely assume that it bears improvement and shortening). A specific problem, on some changes:

  • The transitory publicity blurb of a society (here, announcing an upcoming conference) is not an acceptable source to support a statement. The publications of that society might well be acceptable, but the blurb of an anonymous publicist promoting an upcoming conference surely are not.
  • The content of the anonymous publicist's blurb are now entered into the article, which they should not be. In point of fact, those statements are demonstrably false, but that's a different issue. This does not necessarily contradict the presentations-not-yet-made (scheduled for 30-31 October 2010 according to the blurb), as we have only the publicist's synthesis to go on.

As to the facts of the matter at hand (ie, the history itself), I would be happy to address any concerns that you might have if you let me know what they are—and I might be able to find support for your pov through good sources, since I seem to have an interest in the particulars of the subject matter. Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 16:37, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I cringe at the mention of Arthur in a history section, but the story is rightfully a part of history and it belongs somewhere thereabouts. The trick is to dance around the wording so as to step on the fewest possible toes. Candidates for the date vary widely, with no one better than another.
The proper time frame is post-Roman, pre-medieval, mid-to-late 5th century, through the early 6th century. Probably, say the battle occured "... perhaps between 490 and 520, though there is no one date that is generally agreed upon." I would include it in a paragraph that is relatively short, vague and general ... and connected to Welsh perceptions, of course, but without expressing an implication that other perceptions have less merit.
Getting tasked with this assignment is evidence that your efforts on the article have not gone unnoticed (and offers some confirmation that no good deed goes unpunished :). Arthuriana is not my particular focus (though I've probably done as much unsuccessful research as most others). Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 19:55, 3 October 2010 (UTC)


Hey FruitMonkey, if you're satisfied with the article you should re-list it at WP:GAN. Since I reviewed and declined it last time, I think it would be beneficial to have a new review and a new reviewer's opinion. If you want, you can note at GAN that this is a 2nd(?) nomination, but that's not mandatory. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:09, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Nomination of Huw Phillips for deletion[edit]

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A discussion has begun about whether the article Huw Phillips, which you created or to which you contributed, should be deleted. While contributions are welcome, an article may be deleted if it is inconsistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines for inclusion, explained in the deletion policy.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Huw Phillips until a consensus is reached, and you are welcome to contribute to the discussion.

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Inserting Images[edit]

Hi FruitMonkey, you appear to be successful at incorporating pictures into your articles without them being deleted, whereas despite my best eforts, I always seem to have them removed. Could you please give me the inside track on how I would go about ensuring that, e.g. this image of Cyril Lemprière could be retained in his article. Cheers. DynamoDegsy (talk) 22:16, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for you insights. An example of an image I tried to add was in the Donald Vines (1934 — 1993) article. It was a scan of a picture of him scoring a try in Wakefield Trinity's victory over Australia (Yes, Australia!!! That's how good Trinity were in those days, ahh the memories (I wasn't born then, but if I had been, I'm sure I'd remember it)), scanned from 'Dreadnoughts - A HISTORY OF Wakefield Trinity F. C. 1873 - 1960' printed in 1960. Cheers. DynamoDegsy (talk) 08:33, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Would you be able to suggest how I can save Denis John Boocker.jpg from being deleted? The photograph must have been taken between 14 August 1947, and 13 March 1954, as this is when Denis John Boocker was at Wakefield Trinity, I'm not sure whether he is still alive. Cheers. DynamoDegsy (talk) 09:23, 28 October 2010 (UTC)


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DYK for Henry Clarence Whaite[edit]

RlevseTalk 00:02, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Royal Cambrian Academy of Art[edit]

RlevseTalk 00:02, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK for David Marques[edit]

RlevseTalk 00:03, 20 October 2010 (UTC)


Would it be better to change the {{lang-cy| }} template to {{lang|cy| }} rather than to change the bolding as here? The question is: do we need it to say "Welsh" before the translations (obviously, its first use should be in full)? Daicaregos (talk) 18:51, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry FruitMonkey. Your response was lost in my Talkpage traffic. I had your Talkpage on watch though, if that's any consolation ... In the introduction, for example, the Welsh is given for Wales, noting that it is Welsh in brackets. Further down the page the Welsh is given for Cardiff, again noting that it is Welsh in brackets. That second noting of 'Welsh' is redundant, and the translation can just be given in brackets. Noting the translation is Welsh is unnecessary for the rest of the article too, although as 'foreign' words, they should be italicised. The reason why I think it should be part of the lang-cy template, is so that if over zealous editors come looking to change it, they will see that it has be considered already. What do you think? Daicaregos (talk) 18:17, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Got it Pat[edit]

In memory of all those Irish referees, you might get a chuckle from this edit which had to be made at a loss to the world of humour. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 01:39, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

You spoil sport. :) FruitMonkey (talk) 09:34, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

UK accuracy[edit]

Hi FruitMonkey. I know you like to see the country represented properly, so I thought you might like to catch up on what's happening here:talk:Peterborough, Talk:Dover, Talk:Plymouth, Talk:Sydenham, Talk:Cornwall & Talk:Cambridge. Please don't hesitate to voice your opinion. Cheers, --Kudpung (talk) 14:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

PS: and Talk:Malvern, Worcestershire#Suggested page move. --Kudpung (talk) 16:45, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

{{WikiProject Wales}}[edit]

Thanks I am not a bot, nor do I have one--I'm simply using AWB. I made the list several days ago, consequently sometimes articles get deleted in the interim; I don't always see that. As far as the disambiguation articles go, I'm not sure what the problem is, as {{WikiProject Wales}} includes class=dab. If you're worried about assessment, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to assess most stubs at least. One could simply create recursive list of articles in Category:Wales stubs and then replace all instances of {{WikiProject Wales}} with {{WikiProject Wales|class=stub}}. That's hardly a complete solution, but it's something. Please respond on my talk if you have more to say on this topic or if I can somehow assist you. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 22:44, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Maesteg population[edit]

I note that my earlier edit with revised figure for the site has been changed. To avoid a merry-go-round of repeated changes, I suggest replacing the existing figure with a total of 20,702 for the following reasons:

a) The site refers rather loosley to 'Maesteg' i.e Maesteg and District. Almost all the information on the site refers to Maesteg and District.

b) In reality, and historically, Llangynwyd, (the lower part of the Llynfi Valley not the famous village) has been part of Maesteg and District; a state of affairs recently acknowledged as new wards are proposed within Bridgend County.

c) The Llangynwyd area has grown substantially over the last twenty years or so and now forms a more important part of the contiguous urban area of Maesteg and District. The revised figure reflects this significant growth and gives an accurate population total.

c) Thus the present figure underestimates the population of the subject area and is an inaccurate component on an improving Wikipage.

~~Coedtalon~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coedtalon (talkcontribs) 18:44, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Tosh Powell[edit]

-- Cirt (talk) 18:05, 5 November 2010 (UTC)


Hiya FruitMonkey, see you're back among us again. I made a couple of changes to the introduction. I lumped history into the one paragraph (2nd). That gives us some scope to expand the others, particularly para 3. We should agree on what are the most important aspects of the article and include them in the introduction. I didn't want to just go ahead without discussing it with you first. What do you think? Daicaregos (talk) 09:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Dick Power[edit]


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DYK for Lefty Satan Flynn[edit]

The DYK project (nominate) 06:05, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Tom Norris[edit]

The DYK project (nominate) 06:02, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Dick Power[edit]

The DYK project (nominate) 06:03, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

David "Dai" Davies[edit]

I've just created an article for David "Dai" Davies, do you know anyone else who has played both international football (soccer), and international rugby union, or rugby league for Wales… or for any country for that matter. Cheers. DynamoDegsy (talk) 15:01, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


All outstanding issues have now been addressed; the introduction being the only exception. Do you want to take that to the Talk page now, as discussed? Daicaregos (talk) 15:01, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

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Congratulations. ♦ Jongleur100 talk 21:37, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:55, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
... and from me. Excellent work! Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:17, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


Wikiproject Wales Barnstar.png The Wales Barnstar
For driving forward the concept and the reality of taking Wales to WP:GA. If anyone deserves this, it's you. Thank you, and congratulations. Daicaregos (talk) 22:20, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Henry Walker[edit]

Just happened to see it in new articles and found his obituary in the Times. Will add it as a reference in a moment, by the way it looks like he was born in 1873 not 1883! MilborneOne (talk) 17:54, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Charlton Monypenny[edit]

Courcelles 00:02, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


Thanks for your addition of the Tynewydd colliery disaster section heading. Coming to your User page led me to learn about the Llandow crash, which I'd never heard mentioned before. Opbeith (talk) 01:05, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the offer. The thing that I most want to confirm is whether in fact the Colliery Disaster has anything to do with Tynewydd itself! I'm fairly sure that although the colliery is named Tynewydd it's not a mine in the village of Tynewydd but just on the outskirts of Porth - the photo of the mine at the Welsh Coal Mines website with Aber Rhondda Colliery just behind it appears to confirm that. If so it would probably be better to move the TCD section to a separate article with a note at the Tynewydd article.

The other main issue concerns the rescuers, and particularly Daniel / Gwilym / perhaps James Thomas, but I'm not too bothered about that just at the moment because there are various pieces of family information and other sources including a report of the coroner's inquiry waiting to be sieved through which may make all that clearer. I wanted to get a reasonably accurate summary up at WP in order to get things started. There are a number of unresolved issues, in addition to the question of Abby Dodd's not getting a medal. Feel free to e-mail me via my User page. All the best. Opbeith (talk) 11:14, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Hello FM, whatever its needs your List of collieries in the Rhondda Valleys is a serious piece of work. Thanks for setting out clearly the distinction between colliery and level - what I thought it probably was, but the first time I've seen it explained. Your list gives the location of Tynewydd (and Cymmer) as Porth rather than Tynewydd, so it seems pretty certain the Tynewydd article is the wrong place for info about the Colliery disaster. I think the disaster is worth an article of its own (though I'm not sure whether the title would be better as TC Disaster (D) or TC disaster (d) - I'm inclined for the former as the name of a specific event). However if you think it would be better as a subsection of a Tynewydd Colliery article I'd have no problem with that, you're the local expert. Bad luck about the print - it's what always happens, isn't it?! The BBC Making History website has a picture of a relative of the boy who was rescued holding the picture of the five rescued miners. It may be possible to find out whether it's possible to get a copy at WP Commons. Opbeith (talk) 22:18, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Albert Fell[edit]

Thanks for your additions to the page - I am adding some more information about his reugby career from his college's old boys register and will be researching his military career. NealeFamily (talk) 00:19, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Nadolig llawen[edit]

Thanks for a great article on one of my favourite poems. My family does a reading every Christmas, and it still makes me a bit weepy. Enjoy your holidays! The Interior(Talk) 20:41, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

County teams[edit]

I am glad that the county sides have caught your eye as well. I realise that the advent of professionalism has diminished the perceived importance of the county sides and competition, but for so long they were such an important part of the game. I was at first surprised at the lack of coverage in wikipedia, but as you have pointed out, there is a relative paucity of information readily available on the county facet of British rugby. Cornwall has an article, and ironically so does Sussex (ironic because they are one of the few counties to have never featured in the county final). Yet the big counties (in rugby terms) were notably absent. I began a Lancashire article a long while ago, in my user namespace, and a few weeks ago decided it was festering there and so moved it into the mainspace to both fire my effort up, but also in the hope that wikipedia would begin to work its collaborative magic. Having done Lancashire, I also created a template (County rugby union in England). I have since created Surrey and now Gloucestershire. I had neglected the Welsh counties, but I think a category would be appropriate.Kwib (talk) 20:24, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

The Hendre[edit]

Many thanks for your review, which was very fair and helpful. I agree that more citations are essential and will try to add those. I also take the point that Charles Rolls' ballooning doesn't really fit with a history of the house and will sort. But the real problem is the absolute paucity of sources. I agree you'd think there must be more on what is unarguably Monmouthshire's, and more arguably Wales's, most important Victorian country house but there really isn't. Newman's Pevsner is the only serious source I've ever been able to find and I think that's because it just hasn't been written up. Many thanks again. KJP1 (talk) 18:52, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Understood. The family history part is sensitive, and not mine, being contributed by a member of the Rolls family. I'm not really best placed to edit as my interest is architecture, not geneaology, but I'll see what I can do. Best regards. KJP1 (talk) 21:14, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

DYK for A Child's Christmas in Wales[edit]

Seasons Greetings. Thanks for your contribution from the DYK project Victuallers (talk) 06:03, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of John Whetton[edit]

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The article John Whetton has been proposed for deletion because under Wikipedia policy, all biographies of living persons created after March 18, 2010, must have at least one source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't take offense. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners or ask at Wikipedia:Help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within ten days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. jsfouche ☽☾Talk 14:42, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Ron Berry[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Ron Berry at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Rosiestep (talk) 23:26, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Ron Berry[edit]

Happy New Year. Thanks Victuallers (talk) 20:05, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Prisons in Wales[edit]

Materialscientist (talk) 14:05, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Monmouthshire County RFC[edit]

Hello FruitMonkey! I saw you created this article and I tagged it for CSD at first because it appeared to be a club of amatuer Rugby players. Then as I thought about it, I realized that I really don't know enough about Rugby and perhaps I just dont understand what's going on. Long story short, does it really meet Wikipedia:Notability_(sports)#Rugby_union?--v/r - TP 22:59, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Great thanks. I don't really understand Rugby much, probably because I'm an American and it isnt popular in America.--v/r - TP 23:08, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

The 1978 All Blacks played a game at Newport against a team called Monmouthshire - would it be appropriate for me to add that game to the list of international teams played by Monmouthshire? A happy 2011 to you, by the way, and may Wikipedia's rugby union content continue to grow!--Bcp67 (talk) 16:54, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

There is also a Gwent team on the itinerary of some other touring teams - e.g. 1975-76 Australia rugby union tour of Britain and Ireland. If you can excuse this Englishman's ignorance of Welsh naming, is it likely that this is synonomous with the Monmouthshire side?--Bcp67 (talk) 21:47, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Royal Cambrian Academy[edit]

Thanks for creating the Royal Cambrian Academy page. It was one of those I've been meaning to start, but never got round to! Hogyn Lleol (talk) 16:00, 5 January 2011 (UTC)


Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, FruitMonkey. You have new messages at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (embedded lists).
Message added 13:58, 7 January 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

This isn't canvassing. I've stated my opinion, but if you comment, I don't mind which way you go. I just want to see some consensus one way or the other :) Kudpung (talk) 13:58, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Clem Thomas[edit]

Thank you for your kind words. I'd never heard of him until I read an updated copy of his Lions history but he was clearly a significant player and writer on the game over a long period and I was interested to find out more. The Lions book has a long section on his 1955 tour, an interesting insight into an era which seems like another world now. --Bcp67 (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Award: The Special Barnstar - PM inclusion debate in Wales article infobox[edit]

SpecialBarnstar.png The Special Barnstar
Thankyou for your efforts over the last few days, both reverting poorly thought thorugh edits and debating the inclusion of the UK Prime Minister within the Wales article. Although a fair debate to be had, as you correctly pointed out on numerous occasions, this is something which affects all four countires of the UK, and not just one. Thank you for watching, being diligent, and above all then following through fully and correctly on the talk page. Rgds, - Trident13 (talk) 17:05, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

You've done it![edit]

BLP Barnstar.png The BLP Barnstar
For scoring a mighty zero!! Well done! Regards, The-Pope (talk) 14:14, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Wales year nav[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Wales year nav has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. — This, that, and the other (talk) 06:49, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Fred Perrett[edit]

According to 'Gone North - Volume 1', Fred Perrett joined Leeds not Hull. He definitely played for Hull, but would you know whether he was at Leeds before/after Hull, or never played at Leeds? Best regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 14:30, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the info'. With him making his Leeds début on 6 September 1913, I've changed the mention of the 1914 Five Nations Championship to 1913 Five Nations Championship, and him having "turned professional at the end of the 1913/14 season" to "turned professional at the end of the 1912/13 season". With him making his Leeds début on 6 September 1913, and serving in France from 19 February 1916, that means within the space of 2½-years he had played for both Leeds and Hull, which is likely to mean he played the 1913/14 season at Leeds, and the 1914/15 season at Hull. Best regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 09:09, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Ray Gravell[edit]

Well done for picking up an image for Grav. It really needed it. Nice one. Daicaregos (talk) 18:16, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Horseracing in Wales[edit]

Sorry - being a bit clever there! Difficult to say about a horseracing in Wales article - I haven't got much on the subject on my bookshelves apart from a little about Chepstow in books about racecourses. There is a book about defunct racecourses too but I haven't got a copy of that. Its not particularly been a hotbed of racehorse training either although the Gold Cup winner Norton's Coin was Welsh-trained. Bit of a revival in recent years with Evan Williams and Peter Bowen training good jumpers and the opening of Ffos Las but I'd be struggling to spin such an article out past a stub at the moment. Always happy to chip in though if you do fancy making a start.--Bcp67 (talk) 20:33, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

A nice article, although I can't add much to it by the looks of things. And I'd forgotten about Geoff Lewis!--Bcp67 (talk) 19:36, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Paul Woods[edit]

I've recently revised Paul Woods' article. His obituary in The Independant states that he coached at Margam. I can find no reference to a Margam RFC, could this actually be Corus (Port Talbot) RFC? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 13:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassadors[edit]

Hi FruitMonkey! Since you're an accomplished content contributor, I wanted to let you know about the Wikipedia Ambassador Program, and specifically the role of Online Ambassador. We're looking for friendly Wikipedians who are good at reviewing articles and giving feedback to serve as mentors for students who are assigned to write for Wikipedia in their classes.

If that sounds like you and you're interested, I encourage you to take a look at the Online Ambassador guidelines; the "mentorship process" describes roughly what will be expected of mentors during the current term, which started in January and goes through early May. If that's something you want to do, please apply!

You can find instructions for applying at WP:ONLINE.

I hope to hear from you soon.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:09, 10 February 2011 (UTC)


Disambiguation Barnstar Small.png The Disambiguator's Barnstar

Thanks for all your hard work on disambiguation pages, it's appreciated. Best wishes, Boleyn (talk) 20:31, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar thanks[edit]

Thank you very much for the barnstar. It is greatly appreciated (and I think spurred me on to a couple more articles!).Kwib (talk) 14:56, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Horse racing in Wales[edit]

Materialscientist (talk) 12:03, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Nice one!!--Bcp67 (talk) 20:26, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Roy John (rugby player)[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Roy John (rugby player) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! 4meter4 (talk) 22:53, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Roy John (rugby player)[edit]

Materialscientist (talk) 00:22, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Arthur Cheetham[edit]

Thanks for this contribution to Wikipedia Victuallers (talk) 18:03, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Cinema of Wales[edit]

Thanks for this contribution to Wikipedia Victuallers (talk) 18:03, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK talk cut/paste error[edit]

You responded to a comment in the Amanda Staveley DYK review that I think is actually your own comment, left there when you did a cut & paste from another section. Could you check? I believe it came from your Revision as of 20:45, 21 February 2011. — Brianhe (talk) 02:06, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK nom[edit]

Your nomination at William Haggar and Desperate Poaching Affray appears to have a minor issue the reference used for the claim appears to be broken or down. Please double check this, I am not sure if it is just my connection.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 14:30, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Barry Jones (boxer)[edit]

Orlady (talk) 02:04, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

DYK for William Haggar[edit]

NW (Talk) 10:03, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Desperate Poaching Affray[edit]

NW (Talk) 10:04, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Edward Innes Pocock[edit]

Gatoclass (talk) 18:03, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


You wrote: ...but there is presently no mention of it outside south Wales in the article, which the lead must reflect... Er, careful, old chum. The article's last para does place the issue elsewhere... However, these issues seem to me an avoidable distraction,and that's why I've suggested expanding on them in a separate article. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 00:59, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


You quite correct FM. Thankfully, a near 2hr power outages, prevented me from over-reacting further, toward Daicaregos. GoodDay (talk) 23:54, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

DYK for We All Had Doctors' Papers[edit]

Thanks for your contribution Victuallers (talk) 02:54, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


Being born in Wales does not make one Welsh - See Christian Bale for Example. He left Wales Aged ten. He wrote his books in England. Explain your reasoning please, I have come up with evidence you have not. --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 19:58, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Actually I suggest a compromise. Being born and growing up in part in Wales does not make him exclusively Welsh. He lived for the majority of his life in England, including his teenage years and adult years. This is about influences, and what influenced him and were he wrote his books. I can find no sources that state to what he preferred to be known as, so of course Welsh does not belong in the lead at all which it isn't so that's OK. He became notable as a writer in England, didn't write in Welsh, and well, I can find no sources to state he considered himself Welsh or English so shouldn't it be all British for NPOV sake? /= --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 20:16, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Well I can see you don't want to discuss this ;-) so I'll leave it. Actually you probably think of me as some sort of nationalist, which recent and past edits clearly show I'm nothing of the sort, :-) --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 20:50, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Transfer fees[edit]

Would I be correct in assuming that prior to professionalism in Rugby Union that when players moved from Union to League, for example, when Terry Price signed for Bradford Northern in 1967 for a then club record fee of £8,000, the £8000 was paid directly to Price, and nothing went to Llanelli? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 12:51, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

You would be right, all the money would go to the player. If the clubs took the money then they would be in breech of amateur rules and would be fined or punished by the Union. The money was meant to be a golden handshake to help the player and his family relocate to the North. Also my book fails you on Mr C Hall. It doesn't even give a first name. FruitMonkey (talk) 16:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
With all the money going to the player, that certainly brings Lewis Jones' £6000 in 1952 (worth £382,000 now) into context, not Premier League, but not to be sniffed at. Would I be correct in assuming that this would still have been the case when Dai Young joined Leeds from Cardiff RFC as late as 1990 for £150,000 (worth £319,000 now), as this still predates the change to professionalism in Rugby Union in 1995? I was thinking of creating a "List of significant rugby league transfer fees" article, which could, and probably should, include signing-on fees paid directly to players who crossed code, so any details will be gratefully accepted. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 08:29, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Dick Thomas[edit]

Is there any information to link Dick Thomas to this Dick Thomas, he's in the right era, although he seems to have played at Loose forward/Lock in RL, rather than in the Backs. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 22:39, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Penydarren Park[edit]

Good afternoon FruitMonkey, the Merthyr Tydfil RLFC article states that their home ground was College Field, but has Merthyr vs Australia at Penydarren Park. Would you know whether College Field and Penydarren Park are the same ground, or whether the match would have been moved to Penydarren Park to accomodate an expected increase in attendance? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 12:17, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

John Bevan (rugby)[edit]

Is John Bevan's given name name really James Charles Bevan, or should this be John Charles Bevan, or is it one of those things where because his father was named John, he gets called John, Jr? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 14:18, 11 April 2011 (UTC)