User talk:Gandydancer

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"My understanding of feminism is that it requires the cooperation of males and females to ensure that both sexes have equal rights and equal opportunities, it's not a war between the sexes."


Happy New Year Gandydancer![edit]

--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 14:28, 1 January 2015 (UTC)


One year old or two years old? Art LaPella (talk) 06:34, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 16[edit]

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dyslexia article[edit]

thanks , I was so surprised and happy to see you on the page, I had left a note with Chris about a GA nomination, do you think its a good idea, id certainly want your advice above anyone elses. thanks--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 15:56, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi Ozzie, I only linked a couple of words in the lead. As for the GA idea, I have no idea as it is way beyond my level of expertise. I have only brought two articles to GA and IMO it's a lot of work. BTW, while we're talking, regarding the Ebola article, did you know that dates should be written, for instance, "18 January 2015" rather than, for instance, "January 18th, 2015"? Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 23:42, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

ill change the dates correctly, from now on--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 23:52, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Augusta Tabor[edit]

Hi, We're in luck... on a whim I thought I'd check out the Colorado Women's Hall of Fame to see if she was an inductee, and she was... which gets us over the notability hump right off the bat! It also had a good synopsis of her life as a starting point for the article.

Right now there are two sections - one for early life and another for adulthood, which I'm sure will be changed as the article progresses (e.g., marriage, philanthropist as potential headings).

The article has some of the basic starting points (you probably don't need this):

  • start of an intro
  • sections
  • references (I prefer templates because it makes for clean formatting + used {{r|<ref name>}} short citations)
  • default sort
  • persondata, for a biography
  • authority control
  • categories

I am going to look around photographs - we're in luck that she died before 1923, which makes finding an image in the public domain much easier. It's also fun for me to work on "Early life" - so maybe I could start there - and you could build upon her adult life as you'd like with the sources you'll be getting. If you'd like another approach, though, let me know.

By the way, to answer your question, I am in Colorado Springs.--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

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Consultation @ WER[edit]

Hey Gandy. There has been a request that more women get involved in a conversation about the future plans of the WER Project. I went thru the members list an hour ago and smiled at your name. "Yea. Gandy should be here". Anyway, when you get there, if you decide to join in, you will notice an on-going kerfuffle about Eric. That's not why I ask you to join in. You can if you want but that's not the reason. Your insight and ideas and calming presence will be welcome. It's not the same as the talk page of a contencious article. Much more collaboration and agreement. Give and take. Endeavoring to convince. Hope all is well. TRA! Buster Seven Talk 00:53, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Hello dear one, yes I'm aware of the discussion. Buster I am just sick to death of what's been going on under the pretense of increasing the number of women editors. IMO a small group of editors calling themselves feminists have now spread the idea far and wide, including out into the general public, that Wikipedia has run amok with men not only discouraging women from joining but chasing them down and abusing them here. I've been here from 2006 and many of my edits are related to women's issues and I've run into plenty of difficult editors, but I've never seen the problems that I've run across as sexist in nature. Frankly, considering that somewhere around 80 to 90 percent of our editors are men, I think that they should be commended for doing a fine job. Perhaps it is human nature to look for an easy answer and then focus on that as a threat. It's the commies, it's the ragheads, and so on. In this case it's the Manchester Mob, with Eric in the lead, that's out to destroy our women. They call themselves feminists but I'm a feminist too, and I sure would not go around this place and say so for fear that our men might put me in the same group of women who have become so, IMO, so hateful. Well, I could go on and on all night on this one, but enough for now...Gandydancer (talk) 01:35, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Add: I guess that I shouldn't call them hateful because I know that they have only the best of intentions. Gandydancer (talk) 01:42, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
When ever I visit you page it's a feel-good vibe. The door is open, tea is brewing, the garden is blooming. The gender gap is an issue that won't go away...and it shouldn't. Wikipedia and the Real World would be so much better with thousands of women in leadership, decision-making positions. We have a picture history hallway in our house. Prominently displayed are pictures of my wife with Betty Friedan and Bella Abzug. Mayor Jane Byrne of Chicago was an acquaintance. Feminism and the support of it have been a part of my whole life. I needed to say that somewhere. I'm thankful you provided the space. TRA!. Buster Seven Talk 17:10, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Thank you Buster and I can hardly say how much I've come to respect you as an editor and as a person. For some weeks now I have wanted to say so on some of the gender gab related pages going on right now but always hold back reluctant to say much of anything. I've never forgotten a conversation that we had a long time ago in which we talked about cussing in which you said you felt that it was not "proper" to cuss around the "ladies" and which I called sexist. With your feelings, that you could put them aside and support Eric as strongly as you have has been, for me, the sign of of a truly high-minded and mature person.
As for Eric, he's about as much of a sexist as you are, which is none at all. It pains me to see this whole place turned into a witch hunt, /Joe McCarthy Commie hunt/, etc. to find the evil-doers responsible for the gender gap. IMO having more women here would certainly improve WP, but I just don't see it happening. I've tried many times to get the women that I know to edit and they have no interest at all. Again, I could go on for hours about that but I'm pretty sure that we are cut from the same cloth and pretty much agree on most anything anyway. At any rate, I want you to know that it is the few editors such as you, Dennis, and even Eric that keep me going here. As for women, we have editor user:WhatamIdoing who always makes me feel ready to kiss the ground she walks on as far as attempting to keep this place grounded in reality.

For What You've Done![edit]

as you know it seems as if this is winding down in west Africa,(which is good) though there are still hotspots ,before you move on I though you should know how important your presence both on the talk page and article were month after month.

Barnstar of Life.png The Medicine Barnstar
for leading the way during ebola/west Africa article Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 20:12, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Ozzie. I have no plans to move on. Gandydancer (talk) 21:07, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Gandy. The horizon is that way------------>. . Buster Seven Talk 22:47, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't get it... Gandydancer (talk) 23:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
It was a poor attempt at being philosophical. The horizon representing the future, future journeys, new beginnings, etc. I should have kept it to myself...but it's what i thought when I read the exchange above. Tra! . Buster Seven Talk 00:49, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

GMO "scientific consensus"[edit]

Hi Gandydancer:

I use Wikipedia daily to look up and supplement any research on a wide variety of subjects. If I find a Wikipedia entry that has problems, sometimes I will try to correct them. Recently, I have seen a number of false claims of a "scientific consensus" that GMO's are safe. I wanted to see how Wikipedia handled it, and was floored to see that this false claim was repeated in the article I looked up. I was tempted to fix it, but I also know that correcting a blatant falsehood like that is likely to meet with substantial and unreasonable opposition (from my experience on the Lennar_Corporation page) and that contentious pages are can be more or less "owned" by a small group of watcher with a particular slant on the subject, and if one or more of them is an admin, they often threaten novice editors with their power to censure and block, their greater knowledge of the process and connections and credibility (deserved or otherwise), making any attempt to challenge their slanted view almost hopeless, except for those with extreme patience and perseverance.

So before jumping in to correct the bogus "scientific consensus" claim, I decided to see where it came from and who the players are on that page and what kind of resistance I am likely to encounter by stating the "inconvenient" truth.

The "scientific consensus" claim was added to Genetically_modified_food_controversies by a now defunct user "pathogen5" on 14 December 2010 (23:48), with a host of other strong pro-industry statements, some of which were quickly identified by you on 24 April 2011 (11:14) and eliminated. Unfortunately, the "scientific consensus" sentence survived and I was unable to find any debate on it on the talk pages there. I looked up your talk page to see if I could find anything more and found your discussions with Petrarchan47, Viriditas and Groupuscule on this or related subjects (and frustration with getting the truth in these articles). I saw the comment by Groupuscule "I was disturbed by what seemed like a pattern of corporate manipulation at the Monsanto page. I get that you see the 'scientific consensus on human health' claim as a lost cause, and maybe you're right." From my limited review of your and the other's user talk pages of that time period on the subject, I got the sense that a number of the four of you were met with heavy resistance (some even blocked) for trying to put in the truth on this and related subjects. I definitely understand, I have been there too on a page that will remain nameless, but for which I did get the truth in after a 3 year wait!

So, I am contacting you and asking any advice on how to proceed with addressing the issue. I will likely write up my proposed edits and see what the 4 of you think, before I jump into the water of sharks with them...

David Tornheim (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 09:08, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Gandy. Do you think Petra will return in response to the above? I would feel so much better knowing she was around editing somewhere. . Buster Seven Talk 16:55, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Buster and David, this subject is so hard for me to write about that it will take awhile to get to it. I'll try to answer tomorrow. Gandydancer (talk) 02:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Gandydancer: Thanks for the reply. I understand completely. I have been there before having quality sources mercilessly and hypocritically removed and ad hominems thrown at me, but sometimes this makes me all the more eager to correct misinformation, by finding ever more reputable and reliable sources that make the truth indisputable and making it impossible for falsehoods to continue to be promulgated as truth when viewed by anyone new/unbiased to the subject. It can, of course, be a lot of work, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are people paid by the GMO industry who work on and/or at least keep tabs on these pages! That was certainly the case when I made an edit to the Lennar_Corporation page. Anyway, I did want to let you know that there is active discussion on what I wrote on and on Groupuscle's talk page and my talk page where Jytdog has engaged me in discussion about the RfC on this subject and I responded to him. I may start putting my thoughts on the talk page for GMO controversies.David Tornheim (talk) 05:32, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
I think that the scientific consensus really is that GMOs are safe... if by "not safe" you mean "if you eat GMO tomatoes with fish genes inserted, then the fish genes will get into your human DNA and turn you into a human-fish mutant". (Yes, there really are a few people who believe this. They're probably the same people who believe that microwave ovens make food radioactive.) I haven't read that article, but I believe that it's appropriate to our general educational purpose to clearly state the areas of solid agreement. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:23, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
No. We are not that stupid. Have you seen GMO Roulette? The 17min. trailer gives a good idea of the legitimate concerns about GMO. There is definitely no "scientific consensus" that GMO's are safe. (In fact, if there is a consensus, it is that GMO's need more study.) Nearly all the articles and organizations cited by the GMO Proponents about such "consensus" say that it is *impossible* to make such a claim that GMO's are "safe". The best quotes GMO Proponents have cherry-picked say things like, "After X years and Y studies, GMO's have not by virtue of being GMO's been found so far to be per semore dangerous than conventional food. Hence no additional testing need be done to GMO foods if they are 'substantially equivalent' to conventional food." (The E.U. *definitely* does *not* agree with this and has more rigorous testing than the U.S.) Also, obviously "ordinary" non-GMO foods on the market can be toxic and have been taken off the market, so have GMO foods. Consider the various sugar substitutes. So no, definitely creating a GMO food definitely does not make it "safe", and few scientists would agree with that, despite GMO proponents grossly exaggerated claims. The trailer for the documentary I recommend is: here. Even watching a few minutes of this, you'll see what is going on that the GMO proponents don't want you to know about. I'm sure GMO proponents will say it has an agenda, filled with lies, biased authors, ties to organic, etc. If even a small percentage of the claims in the documentary are true, it really calls into question what the pro-GMO folks are saying. I have looked into a number of the claims in the documentary and they are for more accurate than those of the GMO promoters claims of a "scientific consensus" that GMO's are "safe".David Tornheim (talk) 09:11, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
David, my point is that there are (unfortunately) some people in the world who believe things that even the most die-hard GMO opponent considers nonsense. One of the points about safety that all rational people on both sides agree is this: all food contains DNA, and eating that DNA does neither removes your human DNA nor adds food DNA to your human chromosomes. No matter what your mother said about "You are what you eat", eating carrots does not add carrot DNA to your own DNA; eating fish does not add fish DNA to your human DNA; and eating GMO-inserted DNA—no matter how nasty that is—does not add GMO-inserted DNA to your DNA.
And IMO (given the unfortunate circumstance that much of the world does not have even the most basic science knowledge) you should mention the fact that all sides agree on this particular point of safety, or, if you prefer, not that it's safe in all respects, but that there are some scare stories that are so scientifically stupid that nobody except crackpots believe them. Only crackpots believe that non-human DNA (which is present in all food) somehow leaps out of the food and inserts itself into human chromosomes, or that GMO-inserted DNA has magic powers to do this, when "natural" DNA doesn't. Since all sources from all POVs agree on this narrow question of safety, then you ought to mention it.
(The people who believe that "heirloom seed" or "organic seed" means "completely natural" don't know how those heirloom strains were created. Most of our famous plant breeders created their strains by exposing seeds to hard (usually gamma) radiation or pouring teratogenic chemicals directly on the actual wild-type seeds in their backyards. Even certified organic strawberries that are grown from organic crowns [which are hard to find] have distinctly non-natural DNA. "Been around for a century" doesn't mean "natural".) WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:02, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Also, you might want to reflect on the difference between "the scientific consensus" and "the rules created by politicians". The first is (mostly) related to facts, and the second has a lot more to do with the sentiments of uninformed voters. The latter gives the US both the death penalty, cram-packed prisons, and a requirement that 100% of students achieve what the median student does, which is mathematically impossible. Scientists would give us better access to mental health and a set of educational goals that had some basis in reality. When you say "the EU disagrees", you're talking about the politicians in the EU, not the scientists. AFAICT, the EU's scientific experts hold views that are not very different from the US's scientific experts. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:22, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
David Tornheim, after writing two replies to you and deleting them both I was reminded why I quit editing these articles. You may want to read my user page to see that I'm concerned about corporate power in general. That concern extends to Wikipedia as well. I'll say, that while not against any WP "rules", it is of concern to me that all of our Monsanto-related articles have the same top editor, often several times over. Gandydancer (talk) 02:22, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
WhatamIdoing, heritage seeds are seeds that have been developed through selective breeding for many generations. It's been going on for thousands of years. I have not read info recently, but I think that the methods that you mention are more related to some more recent flower garden plants. There's a lot of concern now about losing our heritage seeds and associations have been formed to keep them going. I grow a few heritage vegetables because they have superior flavor. As I'm sure you know, the big growers grow for ease of picking, looks, and ability to transport for long distances rather than taste. Gandydancer (talk) 01:44, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Large-scale, systematic selective breeding took off in the mid-19th century, but selective breeding wasn't the only method in use a century ago. The use of mutagenic chemicals (like benzene and colchicine) is not "recent". Most people have no idea what the original source of the seeds is, because the seed catalogs usually say "discovered in the 19th century" and leave out any information about who and how. (I agree that food should taste good. Orange blobs that taste like styrofoam aren't tomatoes, not matter what the grocery store says.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:06, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
  • comment: please be aware that David is canvassing. He's left identical messages on 4 user's Talk pages. I warned him here. Jytdog (talk) 14:53, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Why are you telling me about it? Gandydancer (talk) 02:37, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
If I were being used in a canvassing campaign, i would want to know. golden rule, and all that. ignore it if you like. Jytdog (talk) 02:32, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Jytdog and Gandydancer: I have been silent for about a week on GMO's. I did not give up hope of improving the problems with NPOV on the GMO article(s). I decided to do more homework before saying more. I did a lot of research on how the articles got to be how they are now. I am very disappointed that no one gave me the history of just how it happened, who was doing what edits that caused drama, who had been accused of being PR flak for Monsanto, and who got mad at who and when, who accused who of what, who got blocked, what happened in ArbCon, etc. It was countless hours of research to figure that out with almost no advice on what to read except Jytdog's pointing to the RfC--thanks for that. Jytdog: For many reasons, I at first really believed you were paid by Monsanto to work on the articles: A number of things, including my first impressions from seeing your edits to the article in question, how you addressed reasonable NPOV concerns with editors who saw the NPOV problems, your conflicts with Canoe1967 and with the group of four I had contacted, combined with what appears a stranglehold of control of the GMO articles, your immediate recognition that I contacted these four, the negative things you said to me about my intended "good faith" effort to try to address NPOV problems, both snapping at me for no reason, then accusing me of canvassing and then seemingly trying to prevent me from talking to the four who seemed to be suffering wounds and defeat having been chased off the page by Team-GMO. Yes, all of this really made me believe the horrible accusations that were lodged against you by these same people.
But the mounting evidence is beginning to suggest that this is not COI, but very personal with a lot of drama and painful emotions and conflict. The correspondence between you and Gandydancer above regarding your accusations that she was canvassing makes that pretty clear. In the March Against Monsanto--where everyone seems to agree this blew up--in some of the early edits, I think you, Jytdog, were keeping the editors supporting protester's positions from going too far, holding them accountable. I was surprised to find that I sided with you with your handling of the numbers estimated by organizers versus other reports that were in the article that was cited. I wouldn't trust the organizers numbers any more than the numbers provided by Monsanto or the police. It's hard to know the real numbers, but at first you did use the NPOV by providing BOTH sets and that's how it should be done! And I think it was an error on their part to insist on the 2,000,000 and toss the rest, when really it was just as you said, an estimate the organizers made and should have been in the article as that, not as if it were a FACT. (If organizers want to put it in fliers, sure, I can see that.) No one really knows how many marchers there were, so give the numbers you have available to the reader and let them draw their own conclusions. I don't know what all else happened after that, but if this was the main issue, and they beat you up over it, I could see how trust could be broken on both sides.
I am hoping that trust can be repaired, so the more devilish problem, that you Jytdog are aware of can be dealt with correctly. You obviously know there are PR people being paid to edit, as you wrote here:
As I wrote on the Talk page, the culture of editing on the BP page is all messed up. I mentioned to Core on his/her page that it seems to me that a set of editors there has evolved a set of tactics, marginally within the bounds of wikipedia policy but sometimes out of it, to prevent the addition of negative information about BP. I am not saying it is intentional - many cultures just evolve unthinkingly -- but the patterns are there to see. The quick delete, the constant demands they make on people with ideas for content (especially demands that similar content be added to other articles - which is really crazy), the authoritative and sometimes condescending attitude, the endless "not good enough" to proposed content - all this keeps the page frozen and is very unwikipedia. And I have watched your interactions on Talk -- in good faith, you are trying to meet all these crazy demands and trying to please them. They are not playing by the same rules nor with the same goal of actually trying to create new content and improve the article; they are just interfering with your effort to do it. I don't think this is going to lead to the outcome you want, and I cannot imagine that it is any fun. Rather than revert content, we should edit it! Make it better. Let the article grow. I may not have picked the best 'test case' to start changing the culture but it is good enough. Your support of the quick delete piece of this seems to me, to be damaging to your own efforts to improve the article. Jytdog (talk) 18:35, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
I was very inspired to read that. I really hope you want the article to have NPOV and do their job, and address the problem that the GMO articles no longer have it. That said, I will soon make a new appearance on the page. I hope we can work together and get past the initial negative interaction, and that you can go back to doing edits and accepting edits like the one I mentioned above Yours truly, David Tornheim (talk) 02:16, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
I will reply on your talk page. Jytdog (talk) 02:40, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, first of all I am not suffering from any wounds. I had hoped to stay out of this because I did not want to get sucked into a time-sucking argument that I have no interest in. Furthermore, aside from having no interest in your argument, I've only edited the Monsanto article 13 times in all - not much considering that I've been with WP since 2006. I could not have informed you about who said what and when even if I wanted to, which I did not, since I had next to no involvement in most of it. I remember editor Canoe as making a lot of statements that made me wonder about his/her competence and I certainly never had anything to do with him/her. As far as the concern you presented that included your "proof" that science is not in agreement re the safety of GMOs, I found it almost laughable and it is my understanding that there is wide agreement. The two answers to your post that I said I deleted had nothing to do with GM safety, but were related to industrial farming and corporate influence on science. I deleted them because, as I said, I have no desire to spend my time here debating the issues with you. Now I see that even the BP article is being pulled into the discussion. What on earth brought that up? I really do try very hard to AGF, but please, bringing up old wounds is not the way to promote a good atmosphere around this place. Hopefully this will put a stop to your Monsanto discussion on my talk page. Gandydancer (talk) 16:57, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Sorry. I will stop. I was hoping to be a positive voice in healing any wounds I perceived (my mistake if I am wrong and was making maters worse) and seek common ground, promoting consensus. I saw the drama and did not want to reignite old disputes (saying the same tired things people are so sick of hearing) and wasting everyone's time when I brought up the "scientific consensus" issue. Again I am sorry this was annoying and will stop commenting on your page about this topic unless you give me an indication it is okay to continue. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. And I hope the best for you in future Wikipedia editing. Yours truly, David Tornheim (talk) 05:17, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

A brownie for you![edit]

Brownie transparent.png This is a pot brownie. You deserve it. Hope you are happy and well xxxooo petrarchan47tc 05:02, 18 February 2015 (UTC
Thanks Petrar! I sure do miss you. If you ever want to work on anything again let me know. It would be fun to work on an article together again. xxxooo Gandydancer (talk) 00:47, 19 February 2015 (UTC)


This morning I had a thought, at the time was California still part of Mexico? I don't know so I think the FA wording was well chosen. I don't know much about US history, mostly bits I've pieced together, like a jigsaw with most parts missing. J3Mrs (talk) 17:27, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, you probably know more than most Americans. I think that CA became a state about that time. J3, I love the American West because I lived in Colorado when I was a child. I know something about CA because I lived on the incredibly beautiful Big Sur coast for a time. I also know about the California gold rush of 1859, mostly because I know a great deal about the Colorado gold rush of 1869. If you're interested you can read about it in my article, Granite, Colorado where, knowing that almost nobody would be reading it, I used the article as a way to talk about my history as a Colorado girl. (That is my sister Judy mentioned at the end of the article. :D) Gandydancer (talk) 02:03, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I enjoyed the article, I should have read it before I spent a night in Leadville on one of my two trips to Colorado! Shortage of breathable air for a sea level dweller like me! I've just read the shenanigans since I looked in last and I'm reeling back the time I spend here, so many more pleasurable things to do. J3Mrs (talk) 11:39, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

While standing together waiting for the Solidarity March to begin[edit]

Petra is going to Email you the name of an editor that I thought you might want to give one of those "weekly" awards to. I don't have your email or I would have mailed you myself. I'd be glad to assist with the nomination if you like. I have coffee. Did you bring tea? . Buster Seven Talk 00:29, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks so much for the banner (see my user page). This entire feminist thing has just gone completely nuts and has tarnished WP's image. Petra and I discussed this long ago and both agreed that we would not have dreamed of using a feminine name because there is enough trouble here already without having to fight the additional battle of being an easy target for those that consider that men are superior to women. I only came out of the closet, so as to speak, after I had a substantial history here. Buster, I have come up against the male superiority thing all my life - the first home I bought, the realtor had "his girl" bring me into the back room to ask me if I was sure I wanted to buy a home (you know how women are - they make up their mind one day and change it the next...). Believe me, if Eric was actually a woman-hater I could smell it a mile away. But IMO these so-called feminists are just a bunch of angry, spiteful bitches. Gandydancer (talk) 01:12, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Your most welcome. As for all the feminist chatter, especially from the coffee clutch clan, I don't support it. I support powerful outspoken women of action not distr-action. I could name 3 or 4 dozen women editors I am in awe of. For all I know there 3 or 4 dozen more that I think are men but are actually women. Who really knows. Or cares. At one point I said to LB, the ring leader of the clan, that our genitals are not visible at WP. She probably took it as crude and missed the point because the point didn't fit her desire. Which, I think is more "notice me" than any thing else. . Buster Seven Talk 02:30, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Thankyou Gandydancer, a woman hater I most certainly am not. I've been watching a series on BBC television about the suffragettes, and I'm full of admiration for what those women did. Did you notice that I've now twice been called a "cunt" on my talk page over the last day or so, by two different IPs? Completely ignored by the admins of course, yet if I even dare to utter the word "feminist" all Hell seems to break loose. It just doesn't make sense. Eric Corbett 11:54, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

A woman named Mary Beard[edit]

had a New Yorker article back in 9/1/2014. She gave the following examples of how women have been silenced even in the Classics from Ancient Times:

  • "her voice is not to be heard in public"...The Odyssey
  • "Speech is the business of men"...Telemachus to Penelope
  • "Tereus rapes Philomena and then cuts out her tongue so she can not denounce him"...
    Beard:When you venture into traditional male territory the abuse comes anyway. It's not what you say that prompts it. It's the fact that you are saying it.
    It is easier to document ways that women have been silenced than it is to find a remedy to their silencing.
    Men have silenced outspoken women since the days of the ancients
  • "Wikipedia has an imbalance of gender and so an imbalance of power. We all have our views but they are based on our vantage point. Most of us are not women. Most of us do not use a woman's brain to think or to respond or to co-habitate here in WikiWorld. And so....that means that the majority of Wikipedia editors are missing a very important ingredient. A womans touch. Buster Seven Talk 02:05, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I know that Petra mentioned natural methods of healing in her recent posting. I have often wondered if having more women, who tend to be the one that is in charge of (for lack of a better way to put it...) the family's health, might make a difference in the pathetic trend to call everything natural pseudoscience. I know that I had to just give up on all complementary/alternative articles and Petra had to do the same. As a mother and a grandmother, the chemicals articles are important to me as well, but it seems that the days are numbered as far as getting these articles to be anything more than a place to advertise about Better Living Through More and More Chemicals. Many of these articles are basically written by no more than a handful of editors, mostly men, I think... Gandydancer (talk) 02:46, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi Gandy, I don't feel good about having that tirade posted to your page any longer, so I'm replacing it with these words: you are a truly precious gift to this world, and to this project. The readers and your fellow editors are so fortunate that you have decided to share yourself and your time. Very lucky indeed. Be well, and thanks for the sweet support over the years, petrarchan47tc 03:56, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

I'd sure like to continue to have your sweet support as well and feel very lonely without it. Petra, I once had a dream/vision in which my father handed me a dictionary--I knew very well what that meant (a long story), but my mother merely took my hand and next to me, holding my hand, was my daughter. Now, since I have two daughters, when I came out of the dream-like state I wondered, "Which daughter was it???" And then it came to me: WE ARE THE WOMEN. It was not one daughter or the other, it was the long line of women standing together hand-in-hand throughout the ages. And that, taken together with my father's message, made the whole thing very clear to me. As women we have an intuitive understanding of some things and have learned to use verbal skills to be fully human. I think that you and I have both achieved this level of learning how to combine both our male/female brains and can see that Wikipedia has become too male oriented. Some of the men here embrace this higher level of understanding, Buster for example, but nevertheless, as a whole the male perspective dominates Wikipedia.

Petra, I don't see much hope for moving away from Chris Hedges fears of corporate takeover in every sphere of our lives, including a takeover of Wikipedia. Even as I write this I know that I must get back to the Dow article to continue with my objections to biased writing when it comes to environmental issues related to that corporation. In fact, more and more I find myself spending much of my time in issues that involve special interest groups, for example the Elizabeth Warren article, which is one of my GAs. And even, of all things, a group of angry women who think that as a minority women need a special "No Men Allowed" Wikipedia group, and such.

Now I see that my name has been dragged into a debate regarding new editor David T. by Jytdog. What do I do? I could just ignore it and leave people that don't even know me think that I belong to the pseudoscience editors that are trying to ruin Wikipedia with their unscientific prattle or I can go to the page and try to explain that I'm not guilty, only to have diffs presented to show that I'm a dope. I am really just so goddamn tired of all of this that I can hardly bring myself to do any real work anymore. It has helped to have you here as I am trying to go though my thoughts.

Petra, I do know this: The future is bright if kids like my granddaughter Helena Rose have anything to say about it. While I read at the talk page that Jytdog started about David T's behavior "It doesn't help that much anti-GMO activism comes from scientifically illiterate "chemophobes" like the Food Babe, or from the organic movement, which is prone to all kinds of irrationality due in no small part to its Steiner "biodynamic" heritage", Helena goes to a Rudolph Steiner School and even though only sixteen her wisdom is amazing. In one class the assignment consists of going into the woods, alone, and sitting and observing. They later write their observations. Just imagine the depth of this assignment! While she was home for Christmas vacation she had a dream. She dreamed of going into the woods and seeing a beautiful home made of trees and many different plants with beautifully colored flowers. As she tried to explain the depths of the colors I realized that she was seeing the essence of the colors, not merely what the eye beholds--psychedelic colors, if you may. I asked her if she was aware that this was one of the BIG dreams that we all have from time to time, dreams that come from more than only one level of perception, and that was the most interesting thing of all--she knew that. Later her mom, my daughter Jane, and I talked about it and agreed that right now humanity seems to be making a huge jump forward. It somewhat reminds me of something we gardeners say about perennials: First year they sleep, second year they creep, and the third year they LEAP. I planted the little plant that was given to me from a friend, my daughter Jane watched over it and it took hold, and now that Helena Rose has inherited it it has, on it's own, grown so large that it will soon take over the entire garden.

Petra, I'm not sure if you are even watching this site anymore. I'm going to email you in hopes that you will at lest continue to talk with me as you have helped me so much in the past. xxx000 Gandydancer (talk) 17:12, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Hard to believe I logged in again, but I can't say no to you and your invitation to stay in touch. The more I read your words, the more I find myself in agreement with everything you have said. There are many points I'd like to reply to, but I don't have the time just now (I'll be back). As for the ANI, that really is a quandary, and not one that you should have to worry about. It seems to be the price you pay for your volunteer work, sadly.
Gandy, someone finally gets it. petrarchan47tc 23:24, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
To be honest, Gandy, I haven't responded here because I'm still processing things. (Knowing that this communication isn't private adds a particular challenge and sort of stifles my thought process, too.) I'm not quite at the acceptance stage that you, and other folks I admire, seem to be. Of course Hedges was right. But I did think WP was someplace special, a place carved out for the People (the "little people", as BP's CEO likes to say), safe from the ravages and lies of those for whom money is god. Or, at least safer than corporate-sponsored media outlets. Even to this moment I still have a wee bit of hope that WP can be saved from such, and has the potential to fight this. And that's really the problem - it is unrealistic and false. This discrepancy is what led to my frustration and subsequent boycott of the site. I really used to love it here. It meant for me a place where truth had a fighting chance, and often we saw truth win out, even with adversaries such as big oil. But with the MEDRS gang, we see large sections of WP walled off, open to only a few editors who seem to have some sort of understanding. I do not see WP as having the potential or willingness stop the abuse from monied interests. It wasn't like this even two years ago (when was MEDRS created?). It used to be fun here. Now I see that bullying is the norm, even at the ANI, with no one speaking out against it. It is an incredibly dysfunctional place, with no recourse as far as I know for those who want to edit in a peaceful, respectful, and fair environment. My hat is off to you for somehow navigating all of this. petrarchan47tc 05:59, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Actually I don't always do so well myself. For me the best thing is to read Pema and bell [1] from time to time as a reminder to live a day at a time and forget the idea of future perfection as a goal. I agree with what you say above but as you said on your page awhile ago, people like us, which includes our friends and family, know better than to trust WP when it comes to natural healing what with everything other than mainstream now labeled as pseudoscience. But is hard for me as well to see the corporate takeover of our encyclopedia. It's hard to know what to do--like politics for instance. Every year I swear that I will vote for the best candidate which means throwing my vote away and every year I give in out of fear of what will happen if the Republican candidate would actually become president and vote for the Democrat that is running. Some people say just quit voting and they can make a very good case for it, too. Along that same line, one could say quit editing here all together, but I'm not willing to do that. I wish you'd reconsider and begin to edit once more. Consider it a way to work on your emotional growth. That's what I do. :D Gandydancer (talk) 14:44, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

For a couple of years I edited The Walton family and all the members...making sure the Wikipedia accurately reported the Billions that they earned (Did they earn? Or did their employees earn and just were not paid enough) It just aggravated me so I stopped doing that. I don't pay attention to the Waltons anymore. I don't edit places that aggravate me. . Buster Seven Talk 20:30, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
There's definitely something to be said for pushing one's limits in the name of growth. On the other hand, it's a sign of growth to know what feeds vs depletes one's happiness, and choosing to stay within certain boundaries out of compassion for the self. I guess those boundaries are always changing, and we only learn by stubbing our toes when coming up against them, either by pushing ourselves, or when we naturally outgrow the cage (for lack of a better term). I sure appreciate being reminded of the fact that no one outside of WP considers this site trustworthy, that really puts things back into perspective. Looking through the comments here, I see it's still the case. A example: Wikipedia is worthless for anything remotely controversial nowadays. Maybe it's always been that way but it's becoming more and more obvious that when it comes to anything controversial, wikipedia is a way for people to push their own agenda and worldview, pages become edit wars until admins come in and enforce their own bias against editors, whoever gives up last without being banned wins. petrarchan47tc 05:05, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Petra, will you work with me on the Honey article re honey used as a burn dressing? While it is my impression that honey has now been found to be superior to what we used to call "that white stuff", it is not reflected in the honey article which in fact does not even accurately even reflect the ref that is being used. Here is added info [2] and here [3] re chronic wounds which we can move to next. (As an aside, Petra have you seen the TV ad in which two little girls are giving what is apparently a very muddy stray that they have found a bath with the mother coming into the bathroom and seeing the huge mess. I don't really know what the ad is advertising. The girls beg to keep the dog and it is the look of the little one that I love so much: Her little body tenses up and her hands are in fists, her jaw clenches in determination and her eyes squeeze shut as she says "PPEEEZZZEEEEE". So P, just imagine that look as I beg your help... :D Gandydancer (talk) 17:20, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
You are so funny, Gandy - i haven't seen the ad, but can imagine it perfectly. Thank you. With the same level of determination, i would beg you not to allow me anywhere near the MEDRS crowd, which would include this article. There are some paths that cause me to feel peaceful and happy, and there is one sure way to develop an ulcer. I have to play in a different sandbox for now. Hopefully somehow that gang can be corralled, but my recent dip back into the fray showed me that things have actually become much, much worse.
If I come across some great refs though, I'll leave them here for you. "Medihoney" is the name brand being used in hospitals.1 It is impregnated with Manuka honey (which you must try - a teaspoon or more every day - delish!). [citation needed] Manuka is the New Zealand version of the Tea Tree plant, but has even greater healing properties. [citation needed] The honey produced from these bushes has 4 times the nutritional content of regular, raw honey. [citation needed] I have personally seen it used topically to regrow a full cover of skin in a single afternoon, after 8 months of the sore being open and unhealing. [citation needed] There are pictures online showing its use on massive bedsores, and the same thing happens - skin forms over the open sore when all else failed (though deeper sores took longer to heal). [citation needed] petrarchan47tc 02:22, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
Hi Miss Gandy, been thinking of you all day. I'm not sure why. Can you share your thoughts with me? Is everything ok? petrarchan47tc 03:36, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Hi there Miss Petra, I am fine. Perhaps you picked up on my thoughts as I was thinking a lot of you as well. I'm still not done on trying to convince you to work on a few selected articles... :D For one thing, from time to time I have reread the early days of posts on the BP article in which you, at first single-handedly, forced the article to recognize the importance of the spill. You know, that would have not happened without you. You are a WP Wonder Woman and I hope that you take pride in what you have done here. More later... xxxooo Gandydancer (talk) 02:54, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes, i was picking up on that. I'm so glad nothing is wrong. Your note feels more like a hug than a message. Needed it, too. Thank you! petrarchan47tc 05:35, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

bird talk edit break[edit]

After reading your colorful story, I was sitting by the window pondering and received a visit from the neighborhood Mockingbird. We have a new construction project a block away, and I began to hear construction sounds in the bird's afternoon concert. Sure enough, I was hearing sounds of hammers and other tools in his new song. But the clincher was when he echoed that special whistle that construction workers reserve for any female aged 12-70. Then he did it again, really slowly, the kind that translates to "hot DAMN". It actually felt like a compliment! I though you might get a kick out of this admission. petrarchan47tc 04:08, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes I did! Petra, I've actually never heard a mockingbird and figured that they must be a more southern bird. I have heard a Brown Thrasher though, which is similar. I think that the "best" bird I've ever been lucky enough to see is a Pileated Woodpecker--both here in Maine and at my sister's cabin in Wisconsin. It has been so sad over the years to see less and less birds every year--same thing for moths and butterflies. Small wonder that we have both worked on the pesticide articles. Speaking of bird talk, have you seen this very funny video? [4]Gandydancer (talk) 13:56, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm surprised to hear there is another bird like the Mockingbird. The Thrasher knows 2,000 songs?!! Incredible. I am also seeing fewer insects and almost no butterflies. We had lightning bugs last Spring until the neighbors decided to spray their weeds. But I have to admit, every year the Mockingbirds continue to sing with as much vigor as the last, showing no signs of damage. It gives me hope much like your granddaughter does you. (And, that video is simply priceless) petrarchan47tc
(talk at the morning feeder?) If you have ever see a Rose-breasted grosbeak you won't forget it. They wear Tuxedos all day log. Very proud and regal bird...perches long and erect like it knows how beautiful it is. Seems to have a slight disdain for other less fortunate birds but that may just be my interpretation. I'm in Central Illinois.. Buster Seven Talk 14:11, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
(chirp! chirp! chirp!) Another favorite is the Cedar Waxwing. Most times they appear in small flocks, perched on a dead tree. They all seem to take a stance in the same they are choreographed of something. When they perch on a wire, they sometimes pass a berry from one to the other, down the line, till one just can't resist and eats it! My favorite is the American Kestral...(that's my photo at the article)... A few years back an adolescent stayed in the area, and we fed it "carne asada' by hand, for about 3 days. We would stand out in the open, hold the little piece of meat over our heads, and he (she?) would swoop down and snatch it. Awesome! . Buster Seven Talk 14:34, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
That is really cool, Buster, feeding a bird like that. Sounds like something you would do. I coudln't find your photo, can you link it? Those are gorgeous little birds. My mother has several types of Grosbeaks where she lives, and yes - they are unforgettable. See you at the morning feeder ;) petrarchan47tc 05:17, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
Isn't this the most beautiful Bird?

It's beautiful indeed, Buster. Thank you. petrarchan47tc 05:24, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Beautiful photo! Yes, I've seen Rose-breasted Grosbeaks--very pretty. I loved the story about the Cedar Waxwings! When I lived in MN my next door neighbor told of watching Hungarian Partridges play in the ice flow made made by the waterer on their farm. They would take a running start and slide down the flow. As for other bird stories, I likely have the best of all as my family and I raised four baby Phoebes from featherless to full grown. That meant they had to in turns come with me to work and the girls to school. We fed them cut-up worms. OK, did you guys watch the very funny video above? And here is a bird feeder for us all to watch. [5] Gandydancer (talk) 15:00, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
I did see the video - hilarious. I wonder if the couple being 'parroted' is still together - sounds like a troubled marriage to say the least. Your bird story definitely wins hands down, Gandy. But as for getting addicted to another bird cam, I'm not so sure. petrarchan47tc 04:35, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Gandy, Buster7, it's time! Take a look, two white, fluffy eaglets have recently hatched, one egg is waiting for you. petrarchan47tc 19:35, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Mary Wakefield[edit]

i have some notion that you appreciate nurses a lot. i just rewrote Mary Wakefield - she is something! thought it might please you to read about her. the 2008 interview used as a source is a good read. Jytdog (talk) 02:02, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't understand. Why do you think I'd find this article so interesting that you'd need to point it out to me? Gandydancer (talk) 04:51, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
i didn't need to point it out to you. my attention was called to it at COIN, i found a good story that wasn't in the article as i worked it over, and as I finished for some reason i remembered that you had written something about nurses not getting respect somewhere (just remembered - it was here), and thought you might enjoy reading about her. simple, not loaded. if you don't find her story interesting, sorry having taken up your time. Jytdog (talk) 14:20, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Something to share W/ you[edit]

In January I got involved and started to edit articles, lists, etc about murals and artists during The Great Depression. Long story short, I found a book, The Biographical Directory of Native American Painters by Patrick Lester and just today started to work out of it by adding info to articles, etc. On page 7, the entry for Ahgupuk, George Aden, Eskimo, born 1911, says;
OCCUPATION: railroad "gandy dancer", roofer, commercial fisherman, hunter, etc. That should make you smile!! . Buster Seven Talk 14:25, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Indeed it did Buster! :) Buster, this recent turn of events has really put me in a funk for the last few days. Has it come to the point that small groups of very verbal people have taken charge of this place? I'm beginning to wonder. I don't agree with everything that Petra says, but we are certainly on the same page. It is not in my nature to get depressed because I'm basically an "action" person, but of late things have been somewhat overwhelming. IMO depression is a result of feeling that one's choices are being blocked and with introspection one generally finds that choices were always available but clouded vision was preventing action. That said, there can come a time that when clearing one's vision it becomes obvious that the only action is to draw a line in the sand--that's why I liked your STRIKE! suggestion so much. During the strike I thought a lot about all of this. I even wrote an edit on a woman's page that had made an edit on the "militant feminist" charge page asking her to look at the banner on my page and propose different wording as I feel that it could be improved. Then I didn't post it... Then I wavered thinking, oh best not to even give any sort of recognition at all to this small group that have been doing all the agitation... I'm not at all sure what to do next... Thoughts? Gandydancer (talk) 19:20, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
My thoughts are very simple. There's a vocal and militant group, egged on by Jimbo Wales, whose agenda is to rid WP of editors such as Giano and myself, for whatever reason. The gender issue is really just a convenient smokescreen for them to hide behind, but there will undoubtedly be another bandwagon for them to jump on once the current ecstasy dies down. Eric Corbett 19:40, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Well, I'm not perhaps in complete agreement with you. IMO crusaders always need to find a person or group that represents "the other" (to my amazement they are actually referred to as the bad guys here in the US) that must be stamped out to return things to their vision of an ideal of good (us) and bad (them), and it's one that God approves of too (God does not like people who say cunt). To those people, such as Jimbo and this small group of crusaders, you represent the faction that must be wiped out (which IMO exists only in their imagination). A while back it was Bin Laden in the US so we took care of him--now we refer to them all as the terrorists. Ect. Jung has very strongly influenced my views on psychology and my thinking here is very Jungian. (I think--I'm not an expert :D) Well, this is likely trying to say too much in too few words so I hope I'm not misunderstood... Gandydancer (talk) 20:07, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Not at all, I'm quite interested in Jung's ideas myself. I don't share them, but I find them interesting nevertheless. Eric Corbett 20:42, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Borrowing Talkpage Header[edit]

I hope you don't mind, but I borrowed that fantastic box at the top of your talk. I'm not a fan of feeding that particular aquatic monster... Intothatdarkness 18:51, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Well you certainly came along at just the right time. Please see my above note to Buster. Thanks for your post. Gandydancer (talk) 19:23, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

The source of the talkpage header/banner is found at User:John Carter/Anti-PC. . Buster Seven Talk 03:37, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Easily offended banner[edit]

I am rather surprised and I guess heartened to see the template taken up so quickly. But the current working original was only really intended as a working draft, and I myself think the language could probably use some revision, particularly to make for some sort of more striking impact on the reader. Please feel free to make or propose any edits you might deem reasonable to the original. One thing I think might be particularly useful might be to include some sort of link to probably a userspace page where discussion of the concerns expressed by the banner might take place. John Carter (talk) 15:35, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the banner John and your choice of Buster's image was awesome (a word I seldom use :D ) Let's work out something good for the wording. More later... Gandydancer (talk) 15:41, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
BTW, a lot more editors visit certain pages more frequently than they visit mine--do you think that it would be good to move the discussion to a more visible place? Gandydancer (talk) 15:47, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
The conversation is happening at a few places. might be surprised at the popularity of your page :~). Buster Seven Talk 17:17, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
FWIW, version 4 of the template now has a link to an early draft of a userspace discussion page. I hope that page can be used to help us deal with some of the sometimes many times around here we get editors of all types who are work in areas relating to unpopular or bitterly contested political or philosophical topics from getting too many punitive sanctions leveled against them from their ideological adversaries. I would like to see it used as a sort of noticeboard where people who see good editors in ideologically contested fields can try to get help of whatever sort for them. And I include all such groups, including the Israel-Palestine dispute, the several disputes regarding Islam and Sikhs and pseudoscience and god knows what all else around here. I also am planning, maybe later this week, maybe asking to have a few such pages be raised to the level of sanction exemptness that Jimbo's talk page currently has, although I admit that there would be issues involved. The one thing I think most necessary would be having as many people to keep the page from going over the edge around, and removing any content that might be problematic, so if there is any interest the more eyes the better. John Carter (talk) 16:29, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

You may also...[edit]

be interested in the conversation @ User:Ched's talk. I just started reading the long thread so I'm not sure where it goes, but I respect a lot of the participants. . Buster Seven Talk 19:02, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

I stand with my friend shoulder to shoulder[edit]

Igualtat de sexes

The human race is a bird - and it needs both its wings to fly[6]--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 22:19, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

The disparity exists even in nature[edit]

Flemish Giant Rabbit plus Bunny in zoo.jpg

The human race is a rabbit - and it comes in many sizes--. Buster Seven Talk 22:46, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

....and colors. ----. Buster Seven Talk

Also, rabbits come in many colors and they have no prejudices when it comes to color--black, white, brown, they couldn't care less--all are treated equally. I've heard that the same is true here in the USA--the intense hatred of our black president, for instance, has nothing to do with his color. Same thing for police violence, arrests, etc., against people of color--nothing to do with color. :D Gandydancer (talk) 14:17, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

The hidden truth (?) that many on the right will not admit has been their major focus on what is wrong with the US is that "...there is a black man in the White House." They pledged to work against him from his very first day in office. They won't say it but their actions over the past 6 years show it. Any success the President has achieved, and there have been many, have been in spite of them rather than with them. He has shown remarkable guile in not calling them out for their racist practices. . Buster Seven Talk 14:56, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Plans for the future[edit]

We talk about birds and I want to plant a seed. I hope you will both get involved in the upcoming US Presidential Campaigns and the many articles that get produced. I thank Sarah Palin for getting me started at Wikipedia. Because of her I created the 6 (so far) Timelines of the presidency of Barack Obama. They kept my head above water and I didn't drown (metaphorically) when the Horizon spill happened and we had to fight for every breath of fresh truthful air in the WP article. It's a completely selfish request. I just feel so much better knowing you are both here, somewhere, anywhere, editing Wikipedia. . Buster Seven Talk 14:55, 10 March 2015 (UTC)


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Thank you for using VisualEditor and sharing your ideas with the developers.

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Thank you, Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:31, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Precious again[edit]

Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg

environment dancer
Thank you for quality articles such as Yodeling and Saguache, Colorado, for taking care of articles mentioning victims of rape and oil spill, for working for the environment and bringing in your personal experience, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:10, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

A year ago, you were the 799th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:15, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

👍 Like . Buster Seven Talk 14:06, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
Thank you so much Gerda! I'm surprised and honored - plus this comes at a difficult time for me as I try to consider my efforts here. I appreciate the human connection you have made with me and I wish I could find more of it here. This award has helped more than you know. Gandydancer (talk) 17:47, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
BTW, seeing that you mention that I work on "rape" articles, the 2012 Delhi gang rape article is a GA of mine and as I worked on it yesterday to add a statement by the father of the girl, I was thinking that he and the girl's mother gave their beloved daughter to the efforts to end the rape culture that exists world-wide--the very least I can do is to be sure that their voice is heard. Your recognition and that realization helps me to continue to edit even when I find the attitude of some editors hard to deal with. Gandydancer (talk) 18:09, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Consider your efforts, consider those of the other 1000 or so who share the prize of the outcasts, and bear with us ;) - Women are waiting to be reviewed, DYK? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:07, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Make the voices of the victims heard, - thank you for that! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:51, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Five years ago, you were recipient no. 799 of Precious, a prize of QAI! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:24, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Morning feeder, 3/18[edit]

Eastern Bluebird

Bluebirds. What more do I need to say. We live in the city, Chicago, so we don't see them hardly at all. But, when we go downstate, near Peoria, we set up a nesting box each year, facing northeast to catch the warming sun as it rises, and enjoy their beauty all summer long. I'm not sure if its the same couple or their offspring, but they are welcome residents each year and stay around all summer long. They ignore the feeder but are always close by...watching what the other birds are up to. They like insects and catch them in flight and on the ground from morning till sunset. Right about now I have to make sure that sparrows don't set up their breeding home in the boxes designed for the blue birds. The sparrows start sooner and then the bluebirds "don't have a place in the Inn" and then set-up shop somewhere else. . Buster Seven Talk 14:06, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Buster7 Buster, one of these visited me today, and to my knowledge it was the first time i'd ever seen one. What a gift. So beautiful. I didn't know what i saw until just now, thanks to your post. petrarchan47คุก 04:39, 6 June 2015 (UTC)


We put thirty spokes together and call it a wheel;
But it is on the space where there is nothing that the usefulness of the wheel depends.
We turn clay to make a vessel;
But it is on the space where there is nothing that the usefulness of the vessel depends.
We pierce doors and windows to make a house;
And it is on these spaces where there is nothing that the usefulness of the house depends.
We spend endless hours to create an online encyclopedia;
But it is on the 'to be edited' space that the effort lives.
Therefore just as we take advantage of what is, we should recognize the usefulness of what is not.

Dear Gandy. I shared these words with Petra. Now I share them with you. Somewhere in the Emptiness of what might be called "Future Wikipedia" is a Use-full-ness place to be happy. It is far away from the maelstrom of contentious articles and burdensome editors. I hope someday you find it. Buster Seven Talk 16:32, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Buster but I am quite happy already. Perhaps it's a misunderstanding that men have of women. Women tend to "chat" a lot more than men do. It does not mean that I'm not happy. Gandydancer (talk) 17:26, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Birth Pool[edit]

I am a fairly new editor and recently posted my first article on Birth Pool But for some reason it redirects to Water Birth. Can you please guide me how to correct it? MMichelleDalton (talk) 04:39, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi there, is there any reason that you feel that it would not fit quite well into the existing Water birth article? That's how I'd handle it and I could help you with that. It would make a great addition to that article. Gandydancer (talk) 12:42, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

I originally considered this but then two factors caused me to think it required it's own page: other products such as gas and air TENS machine used during water birth have their own page, and there is so much discussion and printed material about the different types of pools, where they can be used, not to mention the newly-arising documentation around how cross-contamination is being addressed in the design of different birth pools. All of these products should be referenced in the water birth article, that's something else I'd like to do. Thanks for your help and guidance. MMichelleDalton (talk) 03:48, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

OK, I will ask an experienced editor to help you here as I've never submitted an article. Good luck! Gandydancer (talk) 11:54, 2 April 2015 (UTC) Thank you GandydancerMMichelleDalton (talk) 06:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
MMichelleDalton, I took a look and am trying to sort out what is needed. I see Birth Pool as it's own article, and the original sandbox page redirects to Birth Pool. (For what it's worth, I agree with Gandydancer that it looks like Birth Pool could be added to Water birth - and it seems like that would be a good discussion on the Talk:Water birth page.)
What do you need to have done?--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:44, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
Oh, I figured it out: Birth pool was a redirect to Water birth, which I fixed.
Birth Pool should be Birth pool, since it's not a proper name, but I'm not able to move it over the redirect. Starting a conversation about moving the article to Birth pool will likely start a merge discussion, so I thought I'd just move right to that. If the articles are "merged" then the move is not needed.
There's not been a lot of activity on the talk page of the article, so there may not be much feedback, but it seems a warranted discussion. If no one objects to the separate article, then an administrative move is required for Birth Pool, and it's revision history, to be moved to Birth pool, which can take weeks due to the backlog.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:24, 2 April 2015 (UTC) Thank you CaroleHenson I will ask for some input there. Really appreciate your help.MMichelleDalton (talk) 06:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)


Thanks for supporting a healthy conversation when times got difficult. HGilbert (talk) 13:08, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

My granddaughter Helena Rose goes to High Mowing. Both she and her brother attended CTL - the head of CTL, Nancie Atwell just received some pretty grand recognition for her teaching methods! I see that someone has an article up on her already - as time permits I will need to fill it in a little. :) Gandydancer (talk) 15:27, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

about 2012 delhi gang rape.[edit]

hello, this is about the recent edit you made. I think it would be appropriate if we use first name of the victim "Jyoti" because the last name "Pandey" that you used is quite confusing as her friend who was with her at time of incidence also has last name "Pandey". What do you say? --Haccom  ✉ Talk to me 14:35, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi there, actually I would have liked to do that but it is not encyclopedic. If you find a confusing section please feel free to edit it to include the full name. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 03:53, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Happy Easter[edit]

Sunset over Kuching river (3678636889).jpg Just a hug before the day is over
Hello my friend, i hope you're doing well. We do expect photos of the garden process this year, just so you know. petrarchan47tc 03:36, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi dear friend, I feel so bad about all the mess going on. Give Atsme a hug from me for getting something going here. It is good to see Core working on it. It does not look very hopeful for now. Please come back and talk soon - it's the end of a long day for me, a very nice day BTW, so that's all for now. Hope to talk more soon. Gandydancer (talk) 03:43, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi sweetie. I think Atsme is fine now, and will likely remain that way. Texans, you know... they're a whole different breed. I'm glad you had a wonderful Easter. Big hug, petrarchan47tc 04:59, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Darn tootin'!! ;-) Just ran across y'all's post, and it made me smile. Hugs and kind words usually do. Big hugs back. We will survive the (_*_) of the world even when it seems impossible. Just let the sun shine in and take it with a grin. ☀ AtsmeConsult 13:10, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Heather Bresch[edit]

It's hard to explain, but I guess in my COI work I'm use to asking editors for a moment of their time on pages they don't have an interest in. Their primary objective is to fix whatever the problem is or address the request in the shortest time possible, so they can get back to pages they have an actual interest in. I usually need to take as little of their time as possible type of thing. I'm glad we're having a thoughtful, in-depth and civil discussion. It's actually very refreshing. I've been trying to draw attention to this page for months and typically just get a passing comment or two without much bold editing, or whatever bold editing is done is just reverted. CorporateM (Talk) 14:18, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 17[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Bayer, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Roundup. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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I just happened onto a page I was editing (AlF) and left you a few "attaboys," but wanted to ask you a question about your reasoning for one deletion you made, "my life," etc. It wasn't because I approved or disapproved of it, just curious, which is why I came to look at your Talk page. I've appreciated other of your edits in the past, but haven't seen all that many of them. I don't like to communicate on Talk pages but I do use the equivalent of a "burner" email addy here on WP, with my contact linked on my User page. I communicate with a very few other editors for reasons I'd be happy to explain. You can use it if you like. I've found it to be helpful in a variety of circumstances. I'll explain my thoughts if you write me there. You may also get a chuckle (it's meant to prompt that reaction) if and when you utilize it. I'm extremely impressed with your work, but especially your Talk page and those who have appreciated it, i.e., Buster7. Anyhow, hope to hear from you. Activist (talk) 20:08, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Whoops, sorry[edit]

Hey, sorry I thought you were getting snarky at the discussion about MEDRS in Veterinary medicine articles, I think we actually agree on the issue, but I took the " I have not noted Montana's involvement" and "you'd understand" as pointed at me and telling me that I didn't know what I was talking about. If that wasn't your intent, then sorry I misunderstood. I've got an awful lot of wiki-drama going on right now and I suppose I'm getting a bit jumpy. Montanabw(talk) 19:49, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Re: Edible bird's nest[edit]

there is no need to get our pants in a bundle with concern that people will run out looking for edible bird nests to eat

Did you even read the article?

They are among the most expensive animal products consumed by humans...The most famous use of edible birds nest is bird's nest soup, a delicacy...The most heavily harvested nests are from the Edible-nest Swiftlet or White-nest Swiftlet (Aerodramus fuciphagus) and the Black-nest Swiftlet (Aerodramus maximus)...Hong Kong and the United States are the largest importers of these nests....The entire global industry is an estimated $5 billion.

Not only is there concern, but is is precisely because of bogus, fraudulent health claims like this that we have a high demand for legal and illegal animal products. The most notable example is that of rhinoceros horn, which is contributing to the extinction of that species. All of these bogus health claims exist as marketing to promote the sale of these products. You can make the argument in some cases, the folklore is historically notable. For example, plant folklore has made legitimate contributions to medicine and should be discussed in many different articles because the information is backed by evidence. To me at least, it sounds like you really haven't given much thought to the problem. Viriditas (talk) 20:54, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

I can't imagine where you got that idea since a lot of my work here is related to environmental issues. In fact, where did you get the idea that I haven't given it much thought? Gandydancer (talk) 15:14, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
This is an award for diligence and diplomacy. Few can do what you do with such grace and tenacity. I remain impressed and awed. I think we simply need more grandmothers editing Wikipedia. Barring a great influx of Gandy-like newcomers, I am grateful (and I am surely not alone in this) that we have you. petrarchan47คุก 21:28, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

👍 Like . Buster Seven Talk 21:46, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you! I'm so sorry I lost track of this nice message and did not thank you sooner. Petra, I look forward to working on Bernie's article with you. Buster?... Gandydancer (talk) 00:22, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Edit conflict[edit]

Was this comment intended for me? Your edit was at 13:21, mine was at 14:07 (46 minutes later), and your next edit was in a different section than mine (which presumably doesn't conflict). If one is expected to wait more than 46 minutes, that is a standard none of us live up to on such a heavily edited article. I've had the same problem (on shorter timescales), and I've tried {{inuse}} but people edit anyway. Art LaPella (talk) 15:42, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry Art, especially since I know you do so much good work at the article. I end up reading so much just to get a few words of print what with comparing one site to another, google stuff, and so on. It can take me an entire morning to do just the little that I got done today. I felt so cranky when I got that edit conflict and acted out. I wonder if it was that other person that keeps putting a complaint about the numbers in - I need to leave a note for him but I thought he would have given up by now... Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 16:13, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
OK. And please do leave a note or something at User talk:Highfly3442. I was about to complain about the talk-less edit war. Art LaPella (talk) 17:28, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Your work is appreciated![edit]

Livets tre.jpg Medical Content Creator Barnstar
Your editing on the Ebola virus article is appreciated and noticed. Thank you for all the improvements that you keep making.   Bfpage |leave a message  15:16, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
I really do appreciate that! Thank you so much. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 00:19, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Although I wasn't around[edit]

I long for the innocence displayed in this news report from Minnehaha Falls

At this point there was something of unexpected interest. Waving their school flag in triumph from the gable window of the old building the lads from the South Side High School shouted their school yell and BAD DEFIANCE TO ALL COMERS. At this point the Central High School scholars were billed to relieve the South Siders, and consequently surrounded the building. The spirit of school rivalry broke out, strong and bitter. The South Siders refused to surrender the fortress and flaunted their banner from the window in spite of all entreaties and orders. Contractor Pratt could not oust them. Supt. Jordan could not oust them, and finally Sergeant Martinson called for a detail of police and made a rush for the house. But the South Side lads were still game, and did not give up until several had been made to feel the force of police authority. Then they made a break. As they dashed from one door the Centrals entered by the other, and their banner was soon flying from the gable amid vociferous cheers. The South Siders were chased up the street by a detachment of Centrals, and for a moment it looked as if the rush would result in some bruised heads. However, good nature was restored and again the house started on its way.

Were you laughing the entire time you read this? Can you imagine news such as this today? Thanks for involving me in such a sweet article and peaceful atmosphere. petrarchan47คุก 10:38, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

All right, I've finished combing through it. Shall we see about "good article" status and a DYK? I thought these were interesting tidbits (potential hooks):
  • 'Despite its name, the Longfellow House was never home to the American poet Henry Wadsworth Longfellow; it was instead the home of Robert F. Jones, a Minneapolis philanthropist and entrepreneur. Built in 1907, the house is a two-thirds scale replica of Longfellow's home in Cambridge, Massachusetts
  • 'In 1896 over 10,000 school children helped pull the John Harrington Stevens house to its present location in Minnehaha Park
petrarchan47คุก 09:02, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I was laughing about the story of the kids hauling the house. I thought about a GA and a DYK but it would be my luck that they would find copy vio, even though I try very hard to avoid it, and I'd be worse off than just being happy with a good article. There is a copy vio checker somewhere but I forget you know? I could check it first and decide from there. Thanks for your help. Gandydancer (talk) 10:14, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
It seems a very gentle process - someone leaves kind notes on the talk page guiding editors to individual issues with tips for fixing them. The article doesn't need to be perfect ahead of time, at least from what I've gathered. Viriditas seems well versed in this, perhaps he will stop by with a suggestion for our next step. Atsme appears quite involved in the GA thing as well. (Any input is welcome.) petrarchan47คุก 17:41, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
I've done a few GAs and one DYK, so I know how it works. I could also ask Core for advise as I believe he's done a few. Gandydancer (talk) 18:00, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
Oh, fantastic! petrarchan47คุก

┌─────────────────────────┘ [7] 👈 The Dupe detector tool. Btw - the left aligned images created excess space between the last few paragraphs in the Fashionable Tour section. You might consider galleries. I didn't check any of the citations, RS or prose. Just did a quickie skim thru - hope it helps. 8-) Atsme📞📧 19:44, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Atsme, that's great help. I have not been able to figure out galleries yet - can you help me with that? (I just found a tremendous amount of beautiful and historic Minnehaha Falls images that I'll be uploading to Commons, and will need help creating a gallery.) ping petrarchan47คุก 21:18, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
Petra, I'm sure you noticed that a gallery is already started? There are quite a few photos at Commons already that I chose not to use--I actually deleted a lot from the existing gallery. There is one vintage photo that I'd love to get my hands on that shows the lower falls bridge and all vintage can be worth consideration. Atsme, I'm not sure what you mean about a space in the Fashionable Tour section re "left aligned images" as they are all on the right.
Demonstrating the blank space
Atsme📞📧 01:25, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks - I'm afraid that my brain will explode if I try to deal with this any more tonight. :) Maybe you can help me understand this better tomorrow because I can't make my screen show what you show. (Disclaimer: I'm a real dope when it comes to these things...) Thanks for the help. Gandydancer (talk) 01:58, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
Gandy, I noticed the gallery, but have never been able to figure out how to add images. I'm really glad you stopped me before I uploaded a bunch of unusable photos... I'll bring them here first. What do you think of these? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9. Anything you like? petrarchan47คุก 09:13, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
Petra, just look at the way the others were entered (remove [[ ]] and "thumb" etc.) and you will see how easy it is. I wonder if the gallery pics should be larger? I used to know how to do that and could look it up. (Though perhaps Atsme knows without looking it up first...) Gandydancer (talk) 13:32, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Atsme, no matter how small I make my print I can't make a page that looks like your picture in which the previous photos hang down so far that they mess up the next section. On my screen it looks OK but I don't know how to do a "screen shot" (is that what it's called...?). Petra's screen must have showed the same as yours because she moved the statue (and I moved it back). So, I moved the Minnehaha statue to the gallery and got rid of the frozen falls - is it still messed up on your screen?Gandydancer (talk) 12:00, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Gandy, it looks great on the iPad. I can't confirm on my 21" laptop because something happened when I was working on photos - think maybe the graphic card finallly went kapoot for the last time - so I don't know how it looks on 13" or larger screens. I would think it's fine now that the images are lined up right with more consistency and are not being pushed down in alignment because of the extra long vertical image. I apologize for not being able to help more but I am limited on this iPad. --Atsme📞📧 12:43, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Minnehaha Falls[edit]

What a wonderful collaboration. You have filled the "to be edited" space with your happiness and stress-free editing. Congrats to you and Petra. I know others helped but my smile is for you two. . Buster Seven Talk 13:38, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Buster! grab a cup of coffee or tea and check out and vote on the photos! Gandydancer (talk) 14:02, 29 May 2015 (UTC)


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9. Anything you like?

  1. perhaps
  2. not Minnehaha - Opps! Wrong on that and very surprised! Yes, for sure this is a keeper.Gandydancer (talk) 14:25, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
  3. like very much
  4. yes - this will go in the history section as it is most likely the first lower bridge built
  5. strong perhaps (same as #9 from Commons)
  6. not Minnehaha
  7. perhaps
  8. nice photo, interesting, perhaps better than what we've got?
  9. same as #5

Please vote on photos. Gandydancer (talk) 13:27, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

All are great for the article but...its like a wedding have to chose the 5 or 6 you will invite... #2 and #3 are keepers...I agree that #8 is better...and #5 and #9 are twins (invite one of them). ($43∞). (Can you guess what that means?). . Buster Seven Talk 16:50, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
  • #2 shows the Falls in winter, frozen. It's the most stunning version to be sure, but here are 3 more alternatives that show a bit more scale; 2a and 2b show actual tourists (which is what the article talks about): 2a 2b 2c petrarchan47คุก 20:23, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
2b is just absolutely spectacular. This is probably quite unusual to be able to walk behind a frozen falls like this and there is a geological reason: The upper layer, the limestone layer, is more durable but the layer that lies below it, the St. Peter's sandstone layer which is hardly even cemented into rock, very easily erodes away - thus this walkway. Petra, have you had good luck in adding Flicker photos? I sure have not and even have given up on my own vintage photos and anything except recent photos of my own or Library of Congress photos. It has been very frustrating. Perhaps you or Atsme can help me out with them. At any rate, I think I will email the owner of that photo and ask him/her to enter it is the annual WP photo contest. Gandydancer (talk) 14:51, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
We could perhaps have a special section for "Falls in the Winter" where you could explain what you just have, and we could expand just a bit on the Winter tourist season. You're right - the photos are out of this world! A special section would justify use of several Winter photos. I also found one that shows the frozen falls and entire area from above, complete with tons of tourists. Birds' eye views are very encyclopedic, imo.
There used to be a Flickr bot that made it very easy. I've written the bot creator to see if he has a new (working) bot... no response yet. This is pretty much making me blind, but we always have the Village Pump, where we may be able to ask for assistance. petrarchan47คุก 18:39, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
I couldn't come up with enough copy for a section that would still give room for even one photo, however we could have a "special" gallery section with "Falls in the winter". One can see that the frozen falls has always been a popular attraction because our Commons has at least one (or more--just going from memory here...) stereoscopic view cards of the frozen falls.
As for help from anyone with photos, good luck with that. It has happened to me twice that when I added a new photo, the last time was at the Lake City, Colorado article that I (mostly) created, not were some of the new photos deleted, they wiped out some of my old ones to boot. You can see here from my Granite, Colorado article where they took out three more of them: [8]. I have spent hours and hours trying to work on it and finally just had to give up. It is really quite heart breaking for me. One of them was the one-room school that I went to which was taken with my Brownie box camera. Incidentally, we had one of those stereoscopic viewers in our school--I wonder whatever happened to it... Gandydancer (talk) 20:56, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
That is heartbreaking, Gandy. Have you thought of asking Taivo about the deletions? He seems responsive. I told you that I wrote to the bot creator for Flickr uploads, and he actually did respond. He's not active here anymore. So no new bot. I also had some files deleted, and went to the WP editor who did it, asking for advice. She was overly helpful after I admitted to being 97% clueless. If I can remember who that was, perhaps she would help you too.
I do like the idea of a separate gallery featuring Winter falls. We'll have to get your explainer in there somehow, though, as it enlightened me a great deal. Although I had already read about the different layers of formation, it hadn't occurred to me that this is what makes the frozen falls so unique. petrarchan47คุก 00:31, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Falls photos
Success! petrarchan47คุก 07:05, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Minnehaha Falls in Winter.jpg
Minnehaha Falls from below, 1905 post card.jpg
Minnehaha Frozen Falls with Visitors.jpg
Hiawatha and Minnehaha sculpture2.jpg
Falls of Minne-ha-ha and rustic bridge Circa 1865.jpg
Minnehaha Falls from 1878 guide to summer resorts.jpg

And here's one I just found at the Library of Congress from 1908 - wow! I've only added one or two of these uploads to the article so far, have at it! My two cents: I would love to see all of these added, but I think the below image may trump the other one we have of the rustic foot bridge (above) in terms of clarity. petrarchan47คุก

Changed my mind, they all have encyclopedic value. But I have to say, the illustration above from "guide to summer resorts" is my favorite. petrarchan47คุก 09:27, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Minnehaha Falls, Minnesota c1908.jpg

WOW!!! This is just great. I'm going to have to get you to try for some of the ones that I've not been able to import in the past at a later time. Now, that is the bridge that I've wanted - I saw it at the Minnesota Historical Society site. It looks like a WPA-built bridge to me...or it could be the first one built where they asked for a "rustic" bridge. At any rate, it's the one I want to use in the article and one can go into a Gallery as well. Thanks! Gandydancer (talk) 20:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Gandydancer.. Check out [9]. It hints that the WPA did work in the PARK. . Buster Seven Talk 17:40, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Did you notice the small, slightly eerie figure in the middle of the bridge? I thought it would be no big deal the other night to watch a few haunted house shows on tv. Well, prior to this innocent night of viewing, I would have either missed this figure, or thought it sweet. Now all I can see is a creepy ghost-child. Can't unsee! Note to self: do not watch ghost stories, you are not old enough yet. petrarchan47คุก 22:06, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Petra, I see that the Flickr photos need to be reviewed. Unless you know someone else, I'd suggest Anna Frodesiak, an admin and a reviewer, and about one of the nicest people you can find to boot. :) Gandydancer (talk) 21:51, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
I'd be happy to help you upload. Yes, when I saw this, I knew it was what you wanted. Spectacular, huh? The review is no big deal - the photos have proper cc 2.0 and any admin will see that easily. The problem with Flickr is that the photographer can change the licensing at any time, which makes it a challenge for commons. But for now, all the photos are safe. petrarchan47คุก 22:03, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
(non-involved observation) @Petrarchan47: Actually, if the licensing changes on the original Flickr picture, the Commons license will still be valid since CC licenses are not revocable. Also, @Gandy, I like the photos, and I wish you best of luck in your GA nomination. Epic Genius (talk) 22:52, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Epic Genius, thanks for your interest and help with the article. I like the changes you made in the reorganization of the sections with the History section placed first - sometimes while working so hard on information one can lose sight of the forest for the trees. One change did result in a little white space in that section, but I'm going to fill it in with more copy. Say, re the new article title, I wonder if "Minnehaha Falls - Minnesota" would be better than Minneapolis? Gandydancer (talk) 11:57, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
It doesn't really matter, as long as the reader knows where the park is after they read the title. Best, Epic Genius (talk) 01:17, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your help, Epic Genius. BTW, I think you probably chose the coolest username of any Wikipedian, ever. Nice job. petrarchan47คุก 04:36, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
No problem. Glad someone likes my username ;-) Epic Genius (talk) 17:26, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I like your changes to the article and images, Gandy. Enjoy, petrarchan47คุก 21:58, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I so appreciate your work here Petra. One of the photos you found, the guidebook, is a railroad promotional booklet which I did find and I plan to write a few words about it as time permits. [10] Also, the latest photo, I looked and looked for that one after I happened to come across it somewhere (but later forgot where), is really interesting in that the falls was dry when they came for the visit and hydrants were opened upstream for a few hours to create a waterfall while they visited. :D So I'll get that in. Also, I found the history of one of the photographers that made some of the stereoscopic view cards and I will add that. [11] And eventually a few words from the stuff that first brought you here - the stuff in my sand box. Gandydancer (talk) 12:19, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
How wonderful! Maybe you can leave a link to your sandbox here?
The detail about the Presidential visit to a would-be dry waterfall definitely needs to be added. It would make a nice hook for the "Did you know...?"
Ping me when i can be of some more help - i didn't know you had replied here. Copy this: { { u|Petrarchan47 } } to ping, but remove the spaces. Also two notes: please feel free to un-collapse the pictures. I wanted to clean up a bit, even though this is your house, it felt like i left my toys all over your floor. Secondly: i've been meaning to tell you for a while, when i edited the text in certain places, it was only because i have a severe anal retentiveness issue with regard to repeated (non-common) words within the same sentence or even paragraph. There wasn't anything wrong with the text, just a personal quirk. I should have warned you about my AR problems before offering to help. petrarchan47คุก 04:33, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Petrarchan47 I thought that your edits were excellent and made the article sound much more professional. I hope to "hire" you again and in fact please continue to go through anything else I add here. Don't worry about "personal quirks" for a minute - if I don't like something I'll change it. In fact, I try to avoid repeating myself and appreciate it when someone makes that sort of change to my work. As for all the photos, I actually enjoyed looking at them and thought that we could remove them after awhile, so what you did was fine. Gandydancer (talk) 14:12, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Many thanks for that. Quick note on the Huskies (my favorite dog breed besides Border Collies). As a reader, I subconsciously assume everything in the article is about the subject. So as I glanced the image, I assumed that this snowy hilltop featuring the dogs was indeed taken near Duluth, presumably at the dog sled event. The photo doesn't appear to have been taken in Duluth, so it's misleading to the reader, if the reader is anything like me. Perhaps a fix would be for the caption to note that Huskies are the most common breed used in dog sled racing, and that the image is not from Duluth. By the way, Duluth is dreamy. I remember it from my childhood road trips to Northern Wisconsin. petrarchan47คุก 19:07, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
You never cease to impress. Great find. No one could ever claim these dudes don't enjoy their 'work'! What a sweet picture.

Industry funding and ghostwriting of sources[edit]

Hi Gandy, I pinged a group of people to discuss the above at MEDRS, but ended up not pinging everyone I intended to, so I'm leaving notes instead. In case you're interested, I've opened a discussion about industry funding of medical research at Wikipedia talk:Identifying reliable sources (medicine)#Industry funding and ghostwriting of sources, with a view to adding something to the guideline. Best, Sarah (SV) (talk) 22:21, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

hi Gandy[edit]

Gandydancer if you have a chance Art left a couple of messages for you at the ebola/west Africa article, so did I (but mine aren't really important...thanks--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:34, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

I read every addition to the article and the talk page every day. I have neither the taste nor the time for that sort of thing. Gandydancer (talk) 20:28, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Acupuncture and Yodeling[edit]

I saw your link to the WHO acupuncture article on CorporateM's talk page. I had no idea! Very good stuff. Your user page led me to the article on Yodeling. VERY good article! I'm not a particular fan of Western music, but I've recently completed a website on the Top 100 Western Songs of all time,, which put me a little in touch with some yodelers. Yodeling is still around in the Western music community, and there are annual(?) awards for "best yodeler", etc. There's some good "harmony yodeling" HERE. Thanks for all the good work. Lou Sander (talk) 14:33, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Green peace funding and the livestock industry[edit]

hi Gandydancer, Please explain your reasoning for deleting the following:

The 2014 film documentary, "Cowspiracy: The Sustainability Secret"[70], suggests that Greenpeace, which consistently refused to be interviewed on the topic of animal agriculture for the film, was receiving funds from the Animal Agriculture Alliance, one of the largest meat industry lobby groups in the US[71]. In an interview in the film, Emily Meredith of the Animal Agriculture Alliance, refuses to deny donating money to Greenpeace and is instructed by a handler, who is clearly audible offscreen, not to answer the question. The film continues to cite a 2009 Worldwatch report[70] that claims greenhouse gases (GHGs) from raising livestock accounts for more than 51% of of GHGs. A more conservative report from United Nations' Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) called "livestock's Long Shadow"[72]claims it is 18%. The film claims that assuming the lower number, animal agriculture would account for more GHGs than all forms of transportation on earth[73], combined. The film goes on to state that reducing consumption of animal products would be a far more significant way to reduce global warming due to GHGs than any of the recommendations given on Greenpeace's website's Individual Action page[71]. Greenpeace's Individual Action Page does not recommend reducing animal product consumption. The film's assertion and resulting controversy[74] is that Greenpeace may be knowingly concealing the main cause of climate change in fear of losing both popularity among supporters and funding, from both individuals and powerful industry associations

Thanks Haifen1 (talk) 18:03, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps best to talk on the article talk page where I left two notes already saying that you will need RS for this edit. Gandydancer (talk) 04:26, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Photo wish list[edit]

Petra, I would like this photo for my Duluth, Minnesota article. [12] It is the 1928 arrival of the Viking ship into the Duluth harbor (a small ship with striped sails). It will go in the Parks section. If you feel really enthusiastic, the lovely Duluth train station (vintage with blue roof...turrit-like roof shape), now a museum, could go in the arts section. Also, I never looked at Flickr and only used our Commons because I've had such bad luck with importing photos, but the John Beargrease sled race and the Skyline bird watch section eagle are generic because I felt that a photo added so much. If you could find the real McCoy, that would be just great! There are plenty of other photos, the rose garden for example or the Viking statue, but I've got the article pretty well-packed with photos already. Duluth should pay me for being such a good promoter for the tourist trade - which they now rely on what with their other industries now long gone. BTW, a few years ago Duluth won the Outdoor mag's best place to visit and I have no doubt that my article had a lot to do with it. And of course, I was then more than delighted to add their first place win to the article... :D Gandydancer (talk) 12:54, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Holy Cow! There are tons of the John Beargrease sled race - a lot of very good ones, too. It is very exciting to watch them come into Duluth. A good friend and I watched from a rustic bar just outside of Duluth. It was dark and the trail was lit and I'm telling you to have them come out of the dark into the lights was breathtaking. I see that we have a John Beargrease article (I saw more photos for that one), but no sled race article. We should make one. Also, tons of good photos of Hawk Ridge, again no article and again, we should make one. It could be a good little DYK, no?
Petra and Buster, I want to hide this here, but I put Maya to sleep yesterday and am in a sort of a daze. I will tell you both more later, but for now you may see a flurry of activity from me as I avoid thinking about it. When I think about it, as I am now, I almost collapse with grief - so no more talk for now about that...just to let you know. Gandydancer (talk) 15:30, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
My prayers... to ease your grief. . Buster Seven Talk 16:13, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
(Just saw this note from you) So sorry, Gandy. That just sucks. I wish I could bring you hot tea. petrarchan47คุก 07:01, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Rafael - Ressurreição de Cristo (detalhe - anjo).jpg

Many thanks to you both. Petra, I very much appreciate the beautiful image. Gandydancer (talk) 13:58, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Checking in... How're you doing? petrarchan47คุก 00:55, 20 June 2015 (UTC)


I apologize if I offended you. I only meant because many editors find themselves focusing on the controversial stuff, which tends to lead to the type of frustration I felt you were communicating, whereas most of the content we really need is on more boring stuff. I have actually gone ahead and reviewed the sources so I can comment on it more thoughtfully. I felt the current article-text is basically representative of the three or so sources that are used. It wasn't just the Earnst source and the sources look reliable to me. However, I've encouraged that if other sources are found that are equally reliable and present other viewpoints, then we can include a more diverse range of views. CorporateM (Talk) 22:00, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Minnehaha Park (Minneapolis)[edit]

The article Minnehaha Park (Minneapolis) you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Minnehaha Park (Minneapolis) for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Coretheapple (talk) 19:12, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Really nice job. Except for a little minor footnote formatting, which you can easily do with an automated tool, I'd say it's just fine. Coretheapple (talk) 21:05, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Coretheapple Yes, I totally forgot to check the existing refs and have gone through them. Are they all satisfactory now? Gandydancer (talk) 23:10, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes the bare URLs are all gone. Coretheapple (talk) 13:59, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
Coretheapple yes, it would make a great DYK - though I'm really hesitant... If I enter it, what would you think of this hook. Also, would you be willing to do the review since you are now so familiar with the article?

Did you know...

I might suggest adding a few words describing how it was done, "... That over 10K schoolchildren were used to foot...." Or something like that. petrarchan47คุก 17:21, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Leap Motion page: COI[edit]

Hey Gandydancer, not sure if you remember me, but we collaborated a while back on the Leap Motion page. I made some further revision suggestions on the talk page using the Edit:requests template. if you have the chance, I'd love to know what you think.

— Alex Colgan, head writer at Leap Motion, 23:34, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Democratic Endorsements for 2016[edit]

Thanks for your support. Both of the neutral observers have echoed support for me removing those citations. I'm not hiding who I support. I support Senator Sanders precisely because of incidents like this. The deceptive behavior of the Clinton surrogates is indicative of the Secretary herself.

I want every candidate - Hillary, Sanders, O'Malley, and Chaffee - to simply behave honestly. I suspect this is impossible for one particular candidate which is why we are seeing this manipulation. Did they really think that no one would spot this?

The Clinton campaigners are complaining about me, but I'm not going to back down:

JaskaPDX (talk) 17:22, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Charleston, South Carolina[edit]

As we reconcile this act of domestic terror, we must also acknowledge that History Matters, and in light of this history of violence, we must cast aside the display of the Confederate flag as a symbol not only of the past but of the danger that it presents to people in the present. Robert Chase

When I visited the article for Charleston, South Carolina there was no mention of the June 17, 2015 shooting or, surprisingly, no mention of the historic Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in the "Religion" section which was quite surprising. . I edited the article regarding the shooting and will further make mention of the church (prior to the terrorism) as time permits. I Expect there will be negative editor response and "blowback".. Buster Seven Talk 16:10, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Buster, did you by any chance happen to catch Obama's eulogy? I'd rank it right up there with some of the most profound speeches in history. If you missed it I'm sure you'll find it somewhere. Although I could easily read between the lines and only voted for him because of what it would mean to black people, it is still hard for me to accept how badly it went - what with his first sec. of ag. "Velsack" (forget the exact name) to his present trade bill, how goddamn sad. (Plus, I voted for him because it meant so much to my daughter Jane who was one of those women who worked their ass off for him. Those everyday progressive women that got him elected. She cried when he won - and she's not the crying type. It turned out to be quite the learning experience for her when he let her down as one by one the chance for real change came along and went by...) Also, did you happen to watch the Roosevelt docs on PBS? I did and really enjoyed them.

Bernie Sanders is "gaining against Clinton in early polls"[edit]

It's official -- Bernie Sanders Has Overtaken Hillary Clinton In the Hearts and Minds of Democrats petrarchan47คุก 04:25, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I am not surprised. But did you notice that this has not been mentioned on any of the evening news shows? A very dangerous man, for sure. Say Petra, speaking of dangerous people, did you notice that a certain paid editor, the one that brazenly advertised right on his user page about how good he was at fixing drug pages in case of lawsuits, just out of the blue took down his shingle? I wonder what happened. recent photos have mostly been deleted. So discouraging for me, especially since the people from the Commons call me careless and even dishonest. I have been through this before and just quite trying to import photos, but was encouraged when you imported some. When they say to do this or that, I don't even know what the hell they are talking about. Maybe in time you can help me since I see that yours were not deleted. XXXOOO Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 00:39, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
I can't watch the news anymore, it's so beyond ridiculous. No, I am not surprised in the least that corporate media isn't giving you the full story. I would be more surprised if you did get the truth from your television.
If we're speaking of the same person, his identity was changed. The Way Back Machine caught a few snaps of at least one iteration of his homepage and announcement; he may think he's hiding but he would be mistaken. What's most disturbing to me is the person who helped him change identities.
Don't be discouraged about the photos, I'll help you. The people behind Wikipedia and Commons are mostly computer programmers who have no concept of the true meaning of computer illiterate. They don't realize they aren't being helpful. It's a different language to those who didn't grow up with computers. petrarchan47คุก 02:03, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes, that's right about the Commons editors. It is just beyond their understanding that anyone actually last took their last "computer" instructions was when they learned to type on an Underwood typewriter. One of them even said that I was obviously lying when I said that a 1954 photo that I took on my Brownie box was taken by me. Moving on..., re that "former" editor, I found it easy to find his former WP name, the one before the former name, but are you saying that you have found him to have a new name since the "former" name? Gandydancer (talk) 02:44, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes ma'am. And by the way, you just made me laugh so hard. petrarchan47คุก 04:17, 27 June 2015 (UTC) For any noticeboard-happy stalkers, I have not claimed that anyone is being paid. petrarchan47คุก 04:25, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
F98 again and again and again. petrarchan47คุก 21:47, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Should we have a sexual harassment policy?[edit]

I have started an RFC here at the request of a female editor who didn't want to do it themselves regarding whether we should have a sexual harassment policy. Although it could effect men, transgendered, or other people as well, the most obvious application would be for female editors, of which we have so few. I wanted to make sure we got a good turnout, hopefully of both genders, and you are one of only a couple editors that I know that happened to be female; I thought you may want to chip in your two cents. CorporateM (Talk) 19:37, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

CorporateM, why didn't the editor want to do it and ask you to do it instead? Gandydancer (talk) 19:50, 16 July 2015 (UTC)


Not sure if you've seen these? MSNBC: All major candidates unpopular in two key states — except Bernie Sanders CNN poll petrarchan47คุก 04:14, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

And one more in case you haven't seen it. petrarchan47คุก 04:03, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

And another one. petrarchan47คุก 05:27, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

petrarchan47 Yes, I'm aware of these as I continue to watch his article very closely. Petrar, I dislike very much your last post at Core's page. In the first place I think you are wrong, but even if not I find it very inappropriate to even insinuate that Jimbo is so dishonest that he would screw people for his own advantage. IMO, if you find it to be something that is so important that it must be said, go say it on his page where he can defend himself. Gandydancer (talk) 15:18, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
I've tried numerous times to alert him and he has ignored and then literally denied (in the BP case) hearing about the problem. I have no hope that he would respond - but since you disapprove, I will remove it from core's talk. Enjoy, petrarchan47คุก 15:32, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks so much petrarchan47. I value your friendship, you are my best friend here, and it means a lot to me that you'd take my advise. Keep in mind that Jimbo (like Obama, another one) may now be part of a mindset that warps one's views. It happens to the best of us. I've been pretty resistant to it in my life but it's happened to me as well - in an interesting situation. I spent four months at Esalen and only later could I see how it affected my mindset. I'll tell you about it when I have time. xxxooo Gandydancer (talk) 13:22, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
You're one of a kind, Gandy. I would gush... if this were a private communication. I keep expecting one day you will have had enough of me, and denounce me for good - I continue to be amazed by your flexibility. It must be Esalen! I look forward to your story :) petrarchan47คุก 00:25, 3 August 2015 (UTC)


Thank you, Gandydancer. Thought I'd throw in the idea. Seems more sensible to me with regard to the visitor coming to the encyclopaedia for a run-down maybe before, or after reading the book. Cheers! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 11:33, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi there and thanks for the note. I did not revert using my own opinion but rather, knowing the amount of care that goes into creating a FA, thought it best not to make such a change without first discussing it. Gandydancer (talk) 13:11, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
Yes, you are correct. Thanks! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 14:33, 1 August 2015 (UTC)


You removed "allegedly attempts to flee" from the body, but the same phrase remains in the lead. No idea how to resolve that, as the lead is at a summary level rather than detail. ―Mandruss  12:48, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Looking at the lead, I think it needs to be done over to include the controversy. You wanna try it? Gandydancer (talk) 13:08, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
Actually, after finishing my first coffee, I think "allegedly attempted to flee" isn't so bad in the lead. The word allegedly is a good hedge, and no one disputes that that is alleged. And I can't think of a better way to summarize neutrally. I'm now for leaving it alone and seeing how others feel. ―Mandruss  13:23, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

ebola/west Africa[edit]

Gandydancer I believe your correct, and I will leave all edits with summaries , I thank you for bringing this to my attention, and I apologize for any misunderstanding...--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 14:54, 3 August 2015 (UTC)


Since you're not an admin, I doubt that you'll be able to see examples of sexual harassment beyond this level unless you stumble upon it in the minutes between when it happens and when it gets removed. At most you'll be able to see that some edits were oversighted. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:05, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

WhatamIdoing thanks for the info but now I'm more confused than ever. Sure I see fairly frequent instances of twelve-year-olds talking dirty. I just delete them without comment and I don't consider them "sexual harassment". You'll get rid of that sort of thing when you get rid of twelve-year-old boys, and not before. If you and the others are complaining about that, it's a waste of time.
As for all the cases of harassment disappearing so fast because alert admins have already deleted it - well of course you've got me there since as you say, I'm not an admin. I assume you're talking about IPs, right? I can only say that if we actually do already have such a good system in place that the sexual harassment almost instantly disappears without trace, why is everyone spending so much time discussing what to do about it? Gandydancer (talk) 00:06, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
  1. Because it's not only IPs.
  2. Because getting it erased upon request doesn't change the fact that it happened (even if the erasure happens fast enough that it's not cached or mirrored anywhere, which is unfortunately not always the case).
Imagine this simple scenario: Someone mails a threat to your home. In one instance, the letter arrives, you read it, and it remains there. In the other, it arrives, you read it, you ask some competent authority (e.g., trash man, post office, police) to remove it, and they take the letter away. The fact that it was removed doesn't really change the fact that you were sent a threat in the first place, does it? Even though (almost) nobody else can see it now, you still know what was in it and you still know that the sender dislikes you and is willing to hurt you, right? WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:39, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

WhatamIdoing if you and some other female editors here feel sexually harassed by teenage potty talk or twelve-year-olds talking dirty I think you need to raise your level of tolerance rather than write a new policy. If you and the other female editors are being harassed with threats of sexual violence that I am somehow unaware of because I'm not an administrator, by all means write a new policy to correct the situation. Hopefully that will correct the perceived harassment and we can get on with editing rather than endless discussion about it, and the Wikipedia women who have been complaining will feel safe. Gandydancer (talk) 13:08, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

The problem is that a new policy can't be written while people are saying "Well, I never personally saw anybody receiving rape threats, or having their userpages replaced with porn, or anything like that, so it must not be a problem".
I know one editor who cannot have e-mail enabled because of persistent rape threats. I know another whose userpage history is almost entirely a string of oversighted edits. I know another who is still embarrassed about a userpage vandalism incident that wasn't discovered for three days. I have one editor's userpage on my watchlist solely because some long-banned editor from another wiki comes over here to write that the editor loves pedophiles and hopes that children will get raped, as a form of revenge against the ban on another Wikipedia. This goes well beyond "twelve year olds talking dirty" and into "disrupting our ability to write the encyclopedia". (Also, the victims aren't just women. Men might be slower to self-identify their experiences as sexual harassment, but two of the four examples I mention here are male.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:44, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
WhatamIdoing, sure I am aware that there have been some incidents of severe harassment and it go es without saying that certain people are going to be targeted by those that have a grudge against them. I can't see that a new sexual harassment policy will help, but sure, if others understand these things better than I do, by all means write one.
But if it turns out that your new policy does not help to make the Wikipedia women (and men) feel safe, I hope that it at least does not create further harm. IMO, the talk in the media of Wikipedia as a hotbed of sexual harassment is the result of a few incidents blown way out of proportion to make it appear as though harassment is common here. But in my WP experience, the men here have been unusually sensitive to women's issues rather than, as one woman put it, like male dogs pissing on the fence and scaring off the women. Of course I'm not an admin, so my view is quite limited according to you. Gandydancer (talk) 01:02, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
This is the encyclopedia anybody can edit so it's naive to think that a policy would prevent some editors behaving in the way you describe. Editors don't read policies before doing what they do. I'm in agreement with Gandydancer and I'd add that I don't understand why the WMF doesn't step in to deal with the problems you have described because a policy certainly won't. J3Mrs (talk) 11:36, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
J3Mrs, Are you aware that their first step will be to get rid of Eric Corbett? Gandydancer (talk) 05:15, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
I would most certainly hope not. Eric hasn't done any of the things described above. I haven't seen him harassing anybody although the case could be made that he's been harassed. I've had more help and encouragement from Eric than anybody else. J3Mrs (talk) 08:06, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
J3Mrs, what you have seen with your own two eyes is apparently meaningless. We are not admins and as such do not have access to some sort of secret activities that have been preventing us from seeing the sexual harassment that is so rampant here that women editors find editing impossible and are leaving in droves. Furthermore, reading the above, note that if you refuse to believe it, sight unseen of course, you are part of the problem because you are preventing WP from taking action to end it. On the other hand, this could all be a perfect example of mob mentality. We all have a right to our opinion, no matter how fucked up it might be, but I only hope that we pull through this without too much damage done to WP because I really do love this place. Gandydancer (talk) 23:32, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
We're all being asked to take the existence of sexual harassment on Wikipedia as a given, yet I've never seen it and would not tolerate it if I ever did. What I have seen though is some females interpreting disagreement as harassment, particularly among those members of a group I'm forbidden to even mention. Eric Corbett 04:26, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
I'll remain part of the problem because I have no intention of being bullied into changing my mind by admins who spend their time attempting to re-educate the riff-raff to their politically correct pov. (Not that I consider you or Eric to be riff-raff but you get my meaning) J3Mrs (talk) 17:05, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

I can only say that the women who have worked so hard to bring us forward to the time that women stand on equal political, economic, and social equality would be saddened to see what has been going on here under the pretense of promoting women. What we have here is a small group of angry Radical Feminists promoting their agenda, and, due to general ignorance being pretty successful at it so far. When they manage to write this new sexual harassment policy they will have won, but that won't be the end of it because they are not here to help build the encyclopedia, they (with few exceptions) are here to go on and on about the victimization of women. The Radical Feminists have every right to voice their complaints in blogs and other social media sites, but I think that we need to put an end to it here. I'm going to include this long quote from this blog post: [13]

"Ironically, this new form of Victim Feminism infantilizes women by denying their personal agency (making men 100% responsible for what happens behind closed doors), diminishes women by insisting that those who do not recognize their oppression are suffering from Patriarchal consciousness and require forced re-education, and negates women’s individuality and intelligence by establishing a required dogma that demands uncritical acceptance."
"Of course, it also diminishes, dismisses and demonizes men, thereby creating two classes based on biological sex, with women being the superior beings (who nevertheless require extensive government protection)."

Gandydancer (talk) 19:13, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

[Warning: random, barely-related rant] The fact of "angry Radical Feminists" is probably what has turned me off to the movement my entire life. Additionally, in my mind anyway, focusing on a problem only exacerbates it. I have never encountered what I would describe as sexism on WP, even though it is a fact in our society, WP included, that men's voices are given greater weight than women's. When I first opened an account here, I used my real name and was immediately warned by another female user that that is a big mistake. Indeed, I went incognito for years and I am sure people took me for a man (that was my goal). Once it got out that I am female, the fact has been brought up a couple of times in arguments and subtly used against me. While WP doesn't have an outrageous problem by any means, it isn't exempt from the overarching belief amongst humans that males are intellectually superior to females. But this isn't something that can be changed by a WP project, or by complaining about it, which is why I haven't gravitated toward the "gender task force" for example. petrarchan47คุก 02:15, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for joining in Petra. Yeah, my experience has been about the same as yours. As for the feminist movement in general, I'm old enough to have actually experienced it and I'm very, very grateful to the brave women that got the movement going in the 60s. Gandydancer (talk) 01:40, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Pssst Petra, since you haven't followed all this bullshit you probably don't know, but what this is really all about is that Eric called Jimbo (and one other guy who I can't remember) a cunt. Supposedly as a result the ladies have left in droves and are now so afraid of sexual harassment that we need to write a brand new sexual harassment policy. As for me, I have been thinking oh for the fucking luv of god, can't we just have a little fun around here? This is a great place. Where else could you find an article on United Breaks Guitars. Listen to it: [14]. I fucking love this song! Gandydancer (talk) 16:56, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
To be precise, I called Jimbo a "dishonest cunt"; how that fits into the feminist lexicon I have no idea. I can't remember who the other guy was either, some admin or other I think, but it was such a long time ago. [ h[User:Eric Corbett| Eric]] Corbett 19:46, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Well I can tell you this Eric, it is true that in the U.S. cunt truly is the dirtiest word there is. I had no idea that it was not considered as such in the UK. In my circle of women friends we'd perhaps call someone like Margaret Thatcher a cunt. On the other hand, it seems that here it is quite alright to call someone a douche bag, something that is used to wash those dirty cunts. Jon Stewart does it all the time. I'd like to see an end to that. Then there's dick or dick head. Little or no emotional impact here. It's about on the same level as asshole. I'd say that a "prick" is worse than a dick or asshole because it suggests that the person is not only a jerk, but a devious jerk. Something like that. As for calling Jimbo a dishonest cunt, I doubt that you'll find much disagreement from petra on that one. :P Gandydancer (talk) 03:46, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
Well, Eric was speaking truth. I probably wouldn't have used the word "cunt" but it's only because I don't have the balls (lol). I love the word when it's used properly, as Eric clearly did. It's hard to imagine women leaving WP due to that - I'm at a loss. There are many reasons to retire, but some guy using the "c" word? I don't get it. petrarchan47คุก 04:49, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Dear Petra, you are such a breath of fresh air around this place. Your honesty and willingness to speak the truth always helps to uplift me. xxxooo Gandydancer (talk) 19:11, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Wow, ditto sweet pea. Seriously. I wish you really knew. xxxoooo petrarchan47คุก 04:24, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your edits to Bernie Sanders[edit]

Tireless Contributor Barnstar.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
I know that we've had our disagreements about what's best for the page, including best practice in building consensus, etc. So I would like to leave this here in appreciation of the large amount of good work you've done on the article, as well as its child articles (political positions, presidential campaign, etc.). I hope that solidarity can be the basis of our continued work together on the articles, and I'll make it a goal to be more collaborative and engage in more dialogue in the future. HappyWanderer15 (talk) 12:38, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


Hello, Thanks for your edits to Leadville. Question: I was in Leadville the second week of August, and I could not find the Tabor Home--are you certain it is still there? That's why I didn't include it. Perhaps I missed it...there were some empty lots where I thought it should be...?? Thanks, Steven C. Price 13:55, 24 August 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steven C. Price (talk • contribs)

Hi there Steve. I enjoyed our little "Dueling Edits" spree there :). It's been many years since I was in Leadville but I went to school in Granite, 17 miles south. I slid down the hill above the school on cardboard before plastic sleds were invented, I swung on the flagpole rope out over the downside of the hill before it was known that children should not be allowed to do dangerous things, and I included that my sister Judy won the county spelling bee in the Granite article because nobody reads it and I could get away with it. Oh, what wondrous powers we editors possess!
Well, it seems that Tabor's house still is standing and now is a museum -- see this article that I found: [] Your work on the historical aspects of Leadville has sparked my interest in my work on my Colorado articles. I have long planned to do some work on the Leadville ice palace and will get going on that, for starters. My last work was on the Lake City, Colorado, Saguache, Colorado, and The Saguache Crescent articles, which was a DYK. The Leadville ice palace would also make a great DYK, don't you think? Gandydancer (talk) 19:51, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Hey, would you believe I stayed in the Tabor hotel? We live close to sea level and found the air a bit "thin". This has reminded me of a fantastic holiday a few year's back. :) J3Mrs (talk) 20:16, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
J3Mrs would you please take a look at the Leadville article as far as layout goes? I know that you have done a lot of work on small villages (at least I think you have) in the UK, and the Leadville article seems very jumbled and hard to navigate to me. I'd like to improve that page but am not sure just where to start. Thoughts?
Also, Steven C. Price, would you mind if I'd include the address and date on the photo descriptions and get rid of those two (mostly empty) columns at the Historic Leadville article? Gandydancer (talk) 16:08, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Gandydancer, Thanks for your comments and the very interesting article. I remain unconvinced the Tabor Home Museum is still there--unless it has been moved from 5th st. I just looked and looked and could not find it. Think I'll call the Visitors Center and see what they say. I have no problem if you included address and build dates on the photos. Also, the Tabor Home photo is really lousy, but I could fix it in photo shop, and repost (needs color adjustment badly). But that may cause a copyright issue--what do I need to do to be Wiki compliant? We went hiking up Mt. Huron, and headed west just south of Granite, I believe. Now I wish I'd paid more attention to the town! Best, Steven C. Price 17:42, 26 August 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steven C. Price (talk • contribs)

That's very interesting Steve. Actually I called and left a message for the guy mentioned in the article -- but he did not return my call. I had hoped to talk to him because I also wanted to mention Duluth, Minnesota, a city that faced a financial crisis similar to that of Leadville when their iron works and shipping industry shut down. Switching to a tourist attraction worked very well for Duluth and its tourist industry has done a pretty good rescue job of keeping the economy afloat. BTW, I am the one that changed the Duluth article from a few mentions of its attractions to what it is now: A wonderful travel guide that makes you want to pack your bags and head for Duluth. Well...I will admit without shame that I smile kindly on places that dwell in my heart, and Northern Minnesota, the birthplace of my mother, is one of those places (the other being Colorado, the birthplace of my father).
Steve, I'm trying to figure out your route. If you took the highway route just north of Granite (at Twin Lakes), that would bring you to Aspen. But you say just south and you likely did not find a western route till you reached Buena Vista or Salida? You mention Mt. Huron, perhaps you hiked in the Collegiate Peaks Wilderness area? Looking at that article, there is a mention of cabins on either side of Pine Creek. Those would be the cabins of Dave Jaradine and/or Henry LittleJohn that I mention in the Granite article. As a little girl I actually lived in one of the cabins on Pine Creek while my dad made another cabin that was close by livable. We then lived in that cabin and it was right next to here [15] -- my sister and I called it "The Pretty Place" but today it is known as "The Pine Creek Rapids" by kayackers.
Steve, please have a look at the Leadville talk page. I see that you know how to work with images -- do you know how to darken the Jackson stereoscopic views image? BTW, your photos are just terrific. We are so lucky to have people like you. (More later...if I haven't already tired you out with trivia.) Gandydancer (talk) 04:42, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi, I read through the article. It's got a lot of info but is in need of a good copyedit. It's short on the geography and geology and the list of notables should be incorporated into the text or written as prose. I just don't know what to make of the In popular culture section. I tried looking up some books but none had previews. I could do a bit of copyediting but not until this evening or tomorrow. There's a lot going on here at the moment. J3Mrs (talk) 09:45, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
I went through a paragraph. What do you think? J3Mrs (talk) 17:48, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Well what I think is that I would like to get down and kiss the ground you walk on missy. Please continue to do your magic. I don't write very well - that part of my brain seems to be missing - but I am very good at criticizing and appreciating what others write. I will feel free to comment as need be... I wrote a new geography section, please give your opinion. Also, re the geology of Leadville, that is one of my great loves, geology. If women would have been liberated back when I chose a career, liberated to the point that they realized that a "higher education" did not mean learning how to be a nurse or a teacher, I would have been a geologist. I fantasize being on a geology field trip with other geologists and looking at a particular anticline (or whatever) and being the only one to correctly point out...whatever. :D But as fate would have it, I became a nurse and my geology understanding is limited to what I've been able to learn as a hobby interest. I've been able to add geology sections to several articles I've worked on but when it comes to Leadville the geology is so complicated that I barely understand it, let alone attempt to simplify it. There is a geology section at the Leadville Mining District article - I have tried to work with that and have not been at all successful, so probably best to leave it at that. Gandydancer (talk) 19:04, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
I learned copyediting by watching Eric sort out my early efforts, and he could no doubt improve it further. I noticed the Geography section had increased in size but I'll work on the history first. What's wrong is that bits are repeated and I've removed a lot of commentary. One of my interests is industrial archaeology, hence the coal mines and cotton mills. We loved Colorado, I've been twice. J3Mrs (talk) 19:54, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, repeats... I just read the section and you are incredibly brave to take it on. I will say this, reading this free E-book published in 1879 [16] I doubt that no matter how unbelievable any info may appear to be, its most likely true with even more unlikely info that was never recorded. I was thinking back to when I was a girl and we had a tourist attraction at our place just south of Granite. When dad was gone my sis and I had to handle the business and take the tourists to the gold panning site, teach them how to do it, and then finish their pans off for them - meaning getting rid of most of the "black sand" and getting a small amount of it with say 20 specks of gold into a tiny vial. It is rather tricky, but you know how quickly kids catch on - it was as easy as pie for us to do. I'm probably the only living person today in the US that ever did such a thing as a kid. Gandydancer (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm calling it a night but I'm not giving up. I'm sure it can be knocked into shape. I'll have a look at the e-book. J3Mrs (talk) 20:22, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
I think I'm just about finished with history but I think it lacks a paragraph about the arrival of the railways. J3Mrs (talk) 12:31, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
I've been looking for references, it's a bit short on them. If you haven't seen it this is fascinating but don't know just how I'd reference it. Lots in there on the early history. I'm going to be extremely hit and miss around here for a while but I'll do what I can. J3Mrs (talk) 20:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, very interesting geology source. It never ceases to amaze me at how much was known about geology even back then when they had to travel around on horseback to take a look at the layout of the land, and with no road cuts, etc., to look at either, to see what they were walking on.

Say, re the colorful figures from the past, what would you think about breaking them out of the history section into a section of their own? The three "Notables" (Molly, Sally, and the third), could go there plus the others we've got in history. Also, this is pretty funny. You know, in the early days this country wanted to prove to the Mother Country that we too were cultured and not just the unwashed savages in a new land. (also behind the weddings of brides to English noblemen as in Downton Abby). But that idea did not escape the satirists of the time. Reading about Oscar Wilde here:

A Satirical cartoon shows a dandy figure, fancily dressed in a long coat and breeches, floating across the crowd in a tightly packed ballroom.
Keller cartoon from the Wasp of San Francisco depicting Wilde on the occasion of his visit there in 1882

Aestheticism was sufficiently in vogue to be caricatured by Gilbert and Sullivan in Patience (1881). Richard D'Oyly Carte, an English impresario, invited Wilde to make a lecture tour of North America, simultaneously priming the pump for the US tour of Patience and selling this most charming aesthete to the American public. Wilde journeyed on the SS Arizona, arriving 2 January 1882, and disembarking the following day. Wilde reputedly told a customs officer that "I have nothing to declare except my genius", although the first recording of this remark was many years later, and Wilde's best lines were often quoted immediately in the press. Originally planned to last four months, it continued for almost a year due to the commercial success. Wilde sought to transpose the beauty he saw in art into daily life. This was a practical as well as philosophical project: in Oxford he had surrounded himself with blue china and lilies, and now one of his lectures was on interior design. When asked to explain reports that he had paraded down Piccadilly in London carrying a lily, long hair flowing, Wilde replied, "It's not whether I did it or not that's important, but whether people believed I did it". Wilde believed that the artist should hold forth higher ideals, and that pleasure and beauty would replace utilitarian ethics.

Reading a local news report from what appears to be a Kansas news source I find this: [17] I think I'm going to turn this info into a para of its own - the humor is too good to pass up.

I note this morning that you have changed the sections I added and left a note on the talk page.

There is so much I'd like to talk to you about. I'd also like to know more about your own history and interests. Typing everything out is so tiresome though. Again, it is so good to work with you on the article. Also, I want to get back to the harassment article and leave a final note. I'm telling you J3, the degree of mental strangeness that one finds never ceases to amaze me. Though I will say, while on one hand I regret the day that I even entered into that mess, I have really learned a lot about where some areas of feminism are at today and I am indeed sorry to see it. It seems that we are witnessing a crusade to cleanse Wikipedia and anytime you have a crusade going on you know there is going to be a lack of clear thinking. We are to believe that rampant sexual harassment is going on but only a select few that possess a higher understanding are able to see it. So we need to hire an outside person to find it, label it, and point out to the dumb ones like you and me that talking about German beer is sexual harassment. And punish us if we don't get it. And all the while even Wikipedia's own study found that very few women reported feeling sexually harassed! For now, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 17:26, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

The Notables could be mentioned in history, it's invariably better than a list. My interests are largely in the articles I've edited and created about the unfashionable industrial area I come from. I try not to give out too much about myself here but I will say I don't know anybody like the crusaders here. I'll open my email if you like. J3Mrs (talk) 19:11, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
J3Mrs thank you so much for your excellent improvements to my edits. I just do not have the gift of good writing, and I know it. I plan to work on the remaining two notables, the Ice Palace (with a photo), the early transportation (stage and RR), and anything else I run into. Turquoise Lake needs a mention as well... Perhaps Tennessee Pass (or is it Independence Pass?) and Mt. Holy Cross, I'll see... Gandydancer (talk) 20:38, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
BTW J3, of late something that Ken Burns recently said during an interview regarding the rebroadcast of his "The Civil War" series when asked if people today, people in this age of soundbite bits of information, really care about his very long story of the civil war, he said "Yes, they do" because people of today are also looking for "meaning" to all of this information, and his doc did that. I'd like to think that we are doing the same thing here on Wikipedia when we write our articles. Pulling information from here and from there -- including some of our own articles -- and putting it all together to produce a meaningful slice of information about our world. Gandydancer (talk) 21:20, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
You're very good at gathering information. I think articles about settlements are quite difficult. I found a newspaper article that describes the current economic situation which would be a useful addition. I'm not certain which US sites are reliable sources as I've never ventured into a US article before. I keep wanting to change spellings. I think the encyclopedia is a great place for putting in information about places that otherwise is hard to find. I came to Wikipedia looking for info and because it wasn't there I decided to find it and write it.....and then I kept on going. J3Mrs (talk) 15:30, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────┘ Gandy, thanks for the trip down memory lane. You bring back sweet memories from the mid '50's when we (Mom, Dad and older brother) vacationed in Estes Park for a few years in a row. Somewhere in a small roadside motel along the Big Thompson River on 34. My older brother and I (he was 10ish, I was 7) loved spending the whole day frolicking in the shallows while my Dad fly-fished upstream. We lived in Chicago but my Mom loved the West. Leadville was always on her list of places to re-visit. . Buster Seven Talk 19:23, 8 September 2015 (UTC)


[18] Ozzie has often expressed appreciation for help with English, so I would rather Assume Good Faith, whether or not we keep the "a". Art LaPella (talk) 17:44, 31 August 2015 (UTC)


this was inappropriate for an article Talk page. In any case you stopped trusting me ages ago; in March you spectacularly twisted my words after I had tried in good faith to answer your concerns and took the time to describe in detail what happened in my discussion with the oversighter at WT:COI - which went way beyond what is required of anyone in WP, about something that was already way beyond what anybody else here does. My response to that was here.

What I didn't write there, is that your post at ANI hurt me, on several levels.

That is one of the worst things anyone has ever done to me in Wikipedia, and I have been through a lot of bad stuff here.

But it also made it clear where you really come from with regard to me. So your comment today comes as no surprise. Two things:

  • Please do keep remarks on article Talk pages focused on content, not contributor.
  • Second, please know that since March I have steered very clear of you - I don't want to work with editors who react toward me with such dramatic bad faith and misrepresentation Jytdog (talk) 14:08, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
I notice that you did not have any problems with my comment on the Monsanto legal cases talk page when I said that in my experience you had not given me reason to doubt your word. It was only after I amended my statement that you decided that my opinion was some sort of WP violation. Furthermore, if I stopped trusting you "ages ago" why would I have defended you in the first place? My defense of your editing on that article talk page clearly shows that to be incorrect. The fact of the matter is that when I noted your editing error on the Alachlor talk page I was still ready to give you the benefit of the doubt, since we all make mistakes from time to time. But to call my action "a good catch" when all I had to do was to read the first sentence of the source and to then excuse yourself saying that you generally don't read the first sentence of source material was such an insult to my intelligence that I was not willing to just overlook it. And, since I had defended you to newer editors from a position of one that had known you long enough to speak with authority, I felt that I needed to publicly say that I had lost that faith in your editing. And BTW, for you to say "Please do keep remarks on article Talk pages focused on content, not contributor" while making demeaning contributor comments such as "You really do not understand how Wikipedia works yet" (as you said to user:SageRad, as just one of many examples), it hardly seems to me that you should be the one to be dishing out advise to other editors.
Now, as for doing one of the worst things that anyone has ever done to you here: While you have accused User:Buster7, user:Binksternet, user:Coretheapple, user:Petrarchan47 and me of forming a gang to bias the BP article, I have never accused you of doing anything. As we both agree, you have been repeatedly asked about a possible COI with Monsanto, not at all surprising when one learns that you are by far the top contributor to almost all of the Monsanto-related articles, and you and others have repeatedly said that the WP investigation proved that you do not have a Monsanto COI. If you look at the diffs that you have provided you will note that my comments are related to Wikipedia's apparent method of proving that no COI exists if all they consist of is an email to discuss an editor's life and work. Per your words:
"Via email with an oversighter, I disclosed my real life identity and what i do for a living, my life story, and my work history, and we had some discussion about that. The oversighter with whom I emailed evaluated all that and found no COI for anything related to ag biotech. I did not mention editing for pay, as I have never done that. I was not asked if I edit for pay and we did not discuss that."
I do not find it at all unreasonable for me to wonder just what sort of an investigation can show no COI exists when the question never even came up and it is clear that my concern is the vetting process, not whether or not you actually have a COI. Clearly I am not the one to be twisting any words here -- It is you who are doing the word-twisting. Gandydancer (talk) 19:07, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
I have written several times that I have never edited for pay and I will say it again - I have never edited for pay. It seems the only thing that would satisfy you would be a financial audit. This is the last note I will leave on your Talk page, outside of official notices, which I hope I never have to bring. Jytdog (talk) 20:09, 7 September 2015 (UTC) (striking, trying a little more Jytdog (talk) 14:48, 10 September 2015 (UTC))
OK, stay away then. There's really no reason for you to come to my talk page in an attempt to make any editors that read my page believe that I have accused you of being a paid editor when we both know very well that I never have. Gandydancer (talk) 12:58, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
Hey Miss Gandy, I am not at all sure how ArbCom works, but right now the committee is considering a case with regard to the GMO suite. I might consider asking you whether I can quote you at some point, since those of us who worked together on the BP page have probably the most extensive history with this case. You were the one who first pointed out to all of us the vast number of edits being made to GMO articles, and with regard to behavioural issues, your input would shed light that would serve helpful to the committee. You're likely aware already, since notices were posted at Monsanto legal cases. petrarchan47คุก 22:30, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I'm aware of it. What do you want to quote from me? I'd like to add something but need some time to pull my thoughts together. How long do we have to add to the hearing? Gandydancer (talk) 17:50, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Take your time. I'm not sure, but I think you may have a good week or so. I'll let you know if the clock starts ticking. petrarchan47คุก 20:14, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Petra, my RL has been very busy. I'm starting to feel pressured to get my opinion in but just have not been able to find the time. I'm thinking that I should perhaps ask "Looie" (right name?) how long I have--which in and of itself will take some of my time... We'll see.. And then there is the stuff below that makes me feel that I am being used and need to deal with... Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 19:49, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
Don't give it second thought. Take care of yourself. Ban drama from your talk page. Big hug, petrarchan47คุก 02:15, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Gandy, sorry but i have been scratching my head, trying to figure out what exactly you are saying. There are two main options for COI. Either: a) I am working as a freelancer for "them" (a "paid editor") or b) my actual work is tied up with "them" somehow - I work for them or have some other financial relationship. Those are the only two ways there could be a COI as we define that. (I could be an "advocate" with no COI, but that is not what you have been saying). The conversation with the oversighter focused on b) - going over my work history, we explicitly discussed whether there was anything relevant to b). The Oversighter also did some of his own research. The oversighter found nothing on b). Nothing. So that leaves only a) - "paid editing". As I said, I wrote nothing to the oversighter like "I don't do paid freelancing work for Monsanto or any other company" and the oversighter didn't ask me if I had edited as a freelancer for pay. But I did write things like " I work at <redacted> and do not have any relationship with any ag biotech company." Even if they had directly asked me about freelancing, and I had said "no", he would have no way to verify that without financially auditing me. Right? So what "exactly" are you finding to be unexamined in that conversation? You are coming at me with such overwhelming bad faith that I am a bit scared to try this further, but I want to try a last time before declaring this bridge burnt down to the ground by you. I want to understand if you have a reasonable point - right now I cannot see it. But I am asking. Jytdog (talk) 14:48, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

This happened yesterday[edit]

The only one I've seen all year. It was meant for you, too. petrarchan47คุก 17:45, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

for Gandy
What a beautiful photo! Did you take this? I've been working on a longer note for you but have not had time to finish it. Later, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 16:21, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
Drop me a line anytime. Yes, I had the profound fortune to be able to snap this image. petrarchan47คุก 17:14, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
OK Petra, I'm going to dash this off to you even though I am well-aware that few others would understand what I'm getting at. Pulling a few things together...a few years ago my friend Sue said "we've really go to see this movie that everyone is talking about, "What the Bleep". So we did drive down to see it. I was furious about the way that the movie twisted real science to support pseudoscience ideas. But the movie challenged any viewer to test out their ideas on their own by asking for real-life evidence. So I did, and Sue did as well. I forget my request because it was not fulfilled, but I remember Sue's because it was. Sue asked for a confirmation from her animal totem, an eagle. The next day on her daily walk with her dog on the Maine coast Sue looked down on the trail and to her surprise she found an eagle feather. When she looked up an eagle flew over her head so close that she could see its eyes looking into her her own. In our later discussion we agreed that her experience did not suggest that the movie was an authentic representation but that never-the-less, there is an underlying spiritual aspect to our lives that we need to accept into our awareness. This is something that we have lost in the last few hundred years. This is something that you understand when you say "profound experience". You know that you have been treated with a deep connection to our...our connection to each other and to all of nature?... The feeling of awe comes over us in those moments if we are open to them.
Anyway, moving forward to the present, as I read your last words I looked at my screen as a walking stick came crawling across it! This is the third walking stick that I've seen in Maine and how it got into the house I have no idea. I suppose that it could be an unusual coincidence and Sue's eagle could as well. But I am certainly open to the belief that it could be a snychronicity as explained by Jung, but called pseudoscience by WP. This is what I mean by Wikipedia's adoption of the paternalistic attitude of showing that the Mother must be overcome by the Father's viewpoint of wisdom. You understand this, Buster understands it, but how many others understand it? Gandydancer (talk) 19:32, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
Monarch through a dirty window.jpg
Sorry to keep you hanging after pouring all of this out. I'll have to come back when the overall scene here is a bit less intense for me. Meanwhile, enjoy another shot from the visit. petrarchan47คุก 03:40, 21 September 2015 (UTC)


I just thought you should know. One of the recent editors at the Bernie election article has been blocked indefinitely. . Buster Seven Talk 05:46, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know and I hope it is the one that I'm thinking it may be. Buster, it's good to hear from you - it's been awhile. You left a note for me above somewhere and I've been too busy to get back to you. I forget what it was about right now...was it about Chicago? Did I ever tell you that I went to kindergarten in Oak Lawn? "Daddy" (as I used to call him :)) was in the naval hospt. and we stayed for a year before moving on to Colorado. I still have quite a few memories of my year there. Mama took us to the (I think famous?) amusement park. I suppose it's gone now? For now, Gandy (Please leave notes whenever you're in the mood. :)) Gandydancer (talk) 16:07, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
It was most likely Riverview Park. A one-of-a-kind amusement park...long gone and replaced with a strip mall and a police station. 25 cents to get in and 10 cents a ride in the 50's and 60's. Amazing place never to be seen again. The note above was about Estes Park and the Big Thompson River. . Buster Seven Talk 20:03, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Help with a Photo Gallery issue on the Chaco Cultural Historic Park Wiki page[edit]

Gandy, Given your kind and civil words regarding my contributions to the Leadville Historic District, I'm wondering if you could help me with a perplexing issue I'm having over an inclusion I made to the Chaco page. That is, I included a Photo Gallery section, which I thought was an accepted addition to a Wiki page. Yesterday an editor just clipped out not only the photos I included, but removed the category entirely. Deor did this without letting me know--just boom, removed them, and suggested that I start a discussion of the appropriateness of either the number of photos I included, or the entire concept--not sue which. I was wondering if you had any information for me before I start a public discussion of this. Thanks, Steven C. Price 14:10, 15 September 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steven C. Price (talk • contribs)

Once again, such excellent photos! I also read your note on the editor's page that deleted them. Excellent note and I'd suggest you post it or similar on the article talk page. I recently worked with a couple of other editors to help me decide on the best photos for a GA that I worked on. I wonder if we could post your photos on the talk page and decide which ones to keep. Maybe some of my page watchers are interested in helping? Petra, I wonder if Atsme would be interested. I think I'll ping User:Montanabw as well. It will be fun. Gandydancer (talk) 15:54, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
It's a clear case of WP:NOTGALLERY. We don't use wikipedia as an image repository; that's what Commons is for. Deor explained the situation pretty well to you at his talk page. When you have tons of images like that, the better approach is to make a page for them at Commons. Here, the best approach is to see if some can be used to replace existing but poorer-quality images already in the article. In some cases, the answer will be "yes!" Other times, a poorer-quality image may be included because it contains special content, a unique angle or the technically better image might have some sort of composition issue that makes it less suitable. Montanabw(talk) 17:10, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) @Steven C. Price: another option is to make use of the {{external media}} template. This avoids the gallery problem, but allows you to point readers to a central repository of notable images. Viriditas (talk) 20:31, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Gandy, Montanabw, Viriditas--First thanks all of you for your comments. Second, I'm new to this "Wiki Talk" and so I'm not sure if Montanabw and Viriditas will see these comments. In any event, as I see it there are two issues here: 1.) Should the Chaco site have a Photo Gallery; 2.) How does one choose photos for the Gallery; and, I presume, how does one go about making changes to a Featured Article--hopefully improving it. Most of the photos I chose for the Chaco Gallery were photos that were "close ups" of the structures. A general problem I have with many Wiki pages is that the article has photos that were taken "too far away." It seems to me good closeups can be as informative as text. So a Photo Gallery seems appropriate--there was an existing Photo Gallery for the wiki page on Petroglyph National Monument, and I added close ups of petroglyphs--perhaps that wasn't appropriate, either--but after all it is a Petroglyph site so what else would you have on the page. Now, there are thousands of petroglyphs at that Monument, so obviously they can't all be put in the gallery--that is what the Commons is for, I presume. So back to Chaco--if the suggestion is "what" photos could be on a Gallery page, how do I go about this? And finally, what is the procedure for modifying a Featured Article?Steven C. Price 21:23, 16 September 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steven C. Price (talk • contribs)

@Steven C. Price: galleries are used sparingly on Wikipedia, if at all. There's already a link at the bottom to commons if people are interested in more images, which the current article has a lot of already. If you're convinced that the article needs additional images, you have several options: 1) you can propose replacing one image for another, or 2) you can use multiple images within one image box or section to highlight a feature or series of images. There are many ways to do this, the easiest of which involves using the {{multiple images}} template. However, I would not recommend using a gallery in the current article unless there's a really good reason. Viriditas (talk) 21:35, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Steve and others, conversation has opened on the article talk page so perhaps best we move there. Gandydancer (talk) 01:46, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Gandydancer (talk) Hello, I wanted to thank you for your very positive comments and support re. Chaco. I actually found all the comments helpful, and harbor no negative feelings to any of the Editors. I wrote the same on TransporterMan's talk page. As I told TransporterMan, I'm an "old" author, speaker, and manager of people both in industry and academia, and I'm very familiar with critical "give and take," and have grown to appreciate its value, so long as one can keep one's ego out of the mix! Any how, I am going to go back through the comments re. Chaco and see if I can find some common ground for another go-around.

Additionally, In the course of going through my/your talk pages, I noticed back August 27th you asked me a few questions and wanted my help on a a Leadville image. I apologize for not getting back to you, as if I received a notification I somehow overlooked it/deleted it, or who knows what. I also have not yet called the Visitors Center re. the Tabor Home, but I will do that today.

I'm a long term photographer, show our( wife and my) work in art shows, do galleries, and commissions, so I have a bit of a critical eye when it comes to photos. I would have no problem fixing any problems with photographs and I will look at the stereo view you suggest to see what I can do. Though I don't want to infringe on anyone else's copyright, of course, so could you please advise me on how to approach altering another's image. ThanksSteven C. Price 15:17, 17 September 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steven C. Price (talk • contribs)

Chaco Cultural Historic Park[edit]


Heya Gandydancer, I hope you're doing fine. It's been a while since we edited anything together. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 21:26, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Rsrikanth05, opps sorry I missed this. It was a joy to work with you and let me know if you have any ideas for something we could again work on together. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 15:02, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Genetically modified organisms arbitration case opened[edit]

You may opt-out of future notification regarding this case at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Genetically modified organisms/Notification list. You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Genetically modified organisms. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Genetically modified organisms/Evidence. Please add your evidence by October 12, 2015, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Genetically modified organisms/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:56, 28 September 2015 (UTC) on behalf of L235 (t / c / ping in reply) 20:56, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Arbitration temporary injunction for the Genetically modified organisms arbitration case[edit]

You are receiving this message because you are on the notification list for this case. You may opt-out at any time The Arbitration Committee has enacted the following temporary injunction, to expire at the closure of the Genetically modified organisms arbitration case:

  1. Standard discretionary sanctions are authorised for all pages relating to to genetically modified organisms and agricultural biotechnology, including glyphosate, broadly interpreted, for as long as this arbitration case remains open. Any uninvolved administrator may levy restrictions as an arbitration enforcement action on users editing in this topic area, after an initial warning.
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Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Arbitration temporary injunction for the Genetically modified organisms arbitration case

Leadville, CO[edit]

Hello Gandydancer, I lightened up the Jackson photo you expressed interest in. The sample is on the Leadville, Co, talk page. Let me know what you think. BestSteven C. Price 14:29, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

user:Steven C. Price sorry to take so long to get back to you. I put off further work on the Leadville articles but am now ready to go back to them for a little more work. Also, I ran across an an editor that is interested in historical architecture who may be able to help to add architectural styles to your photos - we'll see. Re the photo that you worked on, it does not seem to make it any easier to read...I suppose that there is no way to improve the contrast between the wording and the background? I'm thinking of a gallery of his work since he is so famous and I've yet to see a photo of the description that actually went along with a packet of stereoscopic view cards. Again, sorry for the belated reply. Gandydancer (talk) 15:33, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Hello :user:Gandydancer, I'm afraid the photo is too low resolution to improve the text. We'd need to get another photo somehow at a higher res. Do you know where the original is? That would be a start--if it was in Colorado perhaps next time I'm out there (probably next August for more hiking) it would be fun to set up a shoot. Or perhaps someone else at the "archives" would take the photo and donate the copyright to Wiki.

Also, regarding your editor/historical architecture, I've created several new pages of National Historic Places, all of which have the usual tables with a section on the architectural style, and by far that is the most challenging section. I have to rely on what is in the National Registrar application form, as that is the authority. I never know if it is "correct," and sometimes there are close differences in names that I can't sort out on Wiki. For example, Victorian Romanesque--there is not wiki page on such, so I have to link on Victorian and Romanesque separately, but don't know if that is correct, or the correct spin, or if someone just has not gotten around to a wiki page on Victorian Romanesque. Not to mention that often times no style is mentioned, and I wish I knew enough to somehow link to an authority that would satisfy Wikipedia. Thanks, Steven C. Price 14:43, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

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Maulévrier oriental parc 5.JPG Peace and Harmony Award
Miss Gandy, you might imagine the effect your words at ArbCom had during what was for me an exercise in "Wikipedia 101" (a. State The Obvious b. Endure Firing Squad)

I hope you can imagine, because I'm still struggling to find the right words to express my gratitude. This image does a good job. You are a healing balm, and this effect extends to the entire project. We are so lucky to have you around. petrarchan47คุก 18:53, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, I was nothing short of stunned with the way that Trypto spoke of you. What ever on earth brought that on? Even at the most frustrating times, the BP article for instance when months went by without any progress, I never saw you lose your cool. Of the two of us, I think that I am more likely to speak badly than you are. I just don't get it... Gandydancer (talk) 15:43, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
Check the "hatted" convos on his talk page. I confronted him in August about the fact that he always supports J-dog at ANI's based only on the buddy system, not from a neutral assessment of the issue, helping to make it impossible for independent editors to get help with the very problems that were exposed at AC. I don't think it went over well. petrarchan47คุก 00:57, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Hi Gandy, thought you'd enjoy this. petrarchan47คุก 23:30, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
xxxoooooo <-- This is for what you describe on Sarah's talk. I had no idea. I am so sorry. Hopefully by this point you're considered exempt from further bullshit. petrarchan47คุก 00:56, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
Petra, is was quite awful. It made me realize what an outsider I was. Here I thought that I was part of a team, but I wasn't. Plus, I had no friends to help me to feel better back then. Over the years you have said from time to time that you hoped that Arbcom would help settle things but I always knew better, judging from my experience anyway. Thanks for your support, as always. xxxooo Gandydancer (talk) 04:56, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Petra, it's come to the point that I can hardly stand this place any longer. Where will it all end? BTW, I looked back at the old BP stuff too and came across this. I guess that this would be cause for a ban if things go the wrong way here. What I see as an astute observation may be cause for a ban? BTW, do you remember how later WC came to the article saying that he had in fact bought a bunch of stock when the price dropped, and then went right ahead and did a bunch of edits? He must have made a nice profit.

I am seeing bias that looks like what any 3rd grader could expect to see IF a corporation or special interest group was editing on their company's behalf. It's silly to think that the company responsible for £1 in every £6 paid out in dividends to British pension pots would not want to have someone fighting to keep bad news about their stock value, and about their accidents and record, out of the intro and as far down the page as possible. I see all of this happening here. I expect to be attacked for saying this. But that is wrong. This is Wikipedia, it's not for sale and if someone is being harassed for trying to call attention to it, Wikipedia should be doing something to stop that, in my opinion. I am not saying that some people are sitting at BP typing away. But let's be honest here. Obvious bias is extremely obvious. Why should Wikipedia editors have to strike a bargain for content if a corporate PR rep is part of the negotiations? (They do exist) I am not saying that anyone here IS doing this, only that it is what I would expect to see if corporate interests were being represented on this page. I could be totally wrong. [19] Gandydancer (talk) 14:53, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Minor4th I am seriously thinking we need to scrap this whole ArbCom case. Gandy and SMcCandish have made good points. The proposal to silence anyone who notices special interest POV is ghastly, worse than Citizen's United, which at least found people and corporations to be equal. WP has decided individuals have fewer rights here than corporations/companies/special interests. WP already bends over backwards to accommodate their needs (see my recent comments at Sarah SV's for more), while the editors who build this site and make it the high value target it is, are carelessly, sometimes disdainfully, tossed aside. petrarchan47คุก 22:37, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Well Gandy, I don't know either. I feel the same as you. It's easy to see why the co-founder walked away. The trolls have taken over. petrarchan47คุก 09:37, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Petra, is probably one of the wisest people here...and very decent too. What do you think about what he says on his user page about the upcoming election? Gandydancer (talk) 02:44, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

thank you[edit]

I want to thank you for your kind gesture, it has been a pleasure being on the same article as you, and I have learned a lot from you, thank you again. --Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 21:42, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment - I appreciate it.
Ozzie, I know from experience, the last two flu outbreaks and the New England compounding meningitis scandal come to mind, that after a certain point all or almost all of the interest evaporates and the article is left to flounder unless at least one editor does updates. It has been good to work with you on the Ebola article because I know that you continue to comb the news to add important updates, and I need to only go through the article every few weeks to condense, update wording, etc. Gandydancer (talk) 22:59, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
we all help as a "team"...on a side note it seems its become a STD, so I think [20] this may not be over for awhile ...take care and thanks--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:53, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

I like . . .[edit]

. . . both banners at the top of this page (this is my first visit, I think), as I share the same views. I'd like to copy them to my Talk. Would that be OK with you? Writegeist (talk) 16:55, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Sure...I think that I got them from Buster. BTW, I once called that other editor the dirtiest editor I've ever met... On my own talk page, of course, which I used to think was a place we could express our honest feelings...though of late I have learned that that is not the case at all... Gandydancer (talk) 17:36, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

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Reporter requesting to talk[edit]

Hi, my name is Zach and I'm a reporter for National Journal. I'm writing a story on political wikipedia editors and I'd love to talk to you for it. If you're interested, shoot me an email at zmontellaro(at) I'm also happy to answer any questions you have! Zach NJ (talk) 18:13, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

(lurker here) Your'e an intern not an employee, right? Writegeist (talk) 18:30, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
This reporter has canvassed a dozen other editors. One might ask, What's The Story? Buster Seven Talk 21:06, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
Well yes - I noticed that...and no reply to Writegeist... I'd agree with you Buster: What's the story? Gandydancer (talk) 21:32, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

"You 'wanna buy a watch?"[edit]

I don't know it you noticed my edit summary for above but here's the back story. In Chicago, as I was growing up, there was a large 10 acre area known as Maxwell Street where you could buy and sell anything, especially over the week-end. If your lawn mower or snow plow or new set of tires was stolen maybe you could find it at Maxwell St. and negotiate its return. 10 pair of socks for a dollar. Clothes, new and used. Fresh vegetables (?) and the best hot dogs and pork-chop sandwiches anywhere. Old furniture and every resale item you could think of. Some of the great Blues singers started out entertaining the crowd for what the crowd donated to the "hat on the milk crate". A self-regulating independent "from the street" type market place that will never be replaced. To the point...there were guys that would walk around and if they would spy a potential customer, they would roll up the sleeves of their topcoat, displaying 25 watches on each arm and state..."Yu 'wanna buy a watch???". The area now houses part of the UIC...a bad trade. Buster Seven Talk 21:58, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Buster Seven I read it and just loved it. I've not answered because I wanted to write a long note and have put it off. It seems that all of my WP time has been spent reading very troubling stuff, arguing, and not being very happy in general. As all things do, it will pass... It is always good to hear from you and our friendship means a lot to me. xxx ooo Gandydancer (talk) 14:59, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

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Genetically modified organisms arbitration proposed decision posted[edit]

Hi Gandydancer. A proposed decision has been posted for the Genetically modified organisms arbitration case, for which you are on the notification list. Comments about the proposed decision are welcome at the proposed decision talk page. Thank you. For the Arbitration Committee, L235 (t / c / ping in reply) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:05, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Courtesy notice[edit]

I am just letting you know I have posted a request for us to get some help from an in dependent third party at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard about the Domestic Violence article.Charlotte135 (talk) 02:00, 12 November 2015 (UTCL

Posted to wrong dispute resolution noticeboard. Will request it to be closed.Charlotte135 (talk) 11:40, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Hester Prynne[edit]

Considering recent WP events, I feel like a modern day Hester Prynne from Hawthorne's The Scarlet Letter, except in my case the letter is P for Plagiarist. Yesterday, I considered retirement again (for the second time in two weeks). Another friend User:GoodDay always suggests to stay and never leave no matter what, but a large slice of the enjoyment I get here is waning. I'll probably go sit in the corner and lick my wounds. User:Zaereth is a big help and has good advice. I'll surely be a better content editor when the dust settles but right now the dust is making it hard to breathe. Thanks for listening. Buster Seven Talk 14:13, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Been through a multiple year British/Irish topic ban, a one-year siteban & currently under 3+ year restriction. Despite all of that, I'm still around. Retirement, isn't an option for me. GoodDay (talk) 14:20, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
I've never heard Buster consider it, either. This is a sad time for WP. Buster, I'm so sorry about to hear this. Have you read Sanger's latest? petrarchan47คุก 18:26, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
See Talk:Theo Epstein#Hot Stove and my talk page for just a glimpse. Buster Seven Talk 20:38, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
I doubt you'd have any trouble arguing for an iBan, though I also doubt you're any happier to engage in, let alone initiate, noticeboards than I. Have you considered it? petrarchan47คุก 21:42, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
I personally would have no problem with an I-Ban since I am not interested in what the other editor does. Maybe it would do some good once the dust settles. Needless to say, I'm embarrassed. I now see the logic of public domain, etc. But, to me, my crime amounts to inadvertent jay-walking. And, yes, I acknowledge that I did it a few hundred, (it seems like thousands), of times. And, I acknowledge that cleaning up the mess I made will be a major big deal and for that I'm sorry. Thanks for your support, my friends. It brought me out of my funk. Buster Seven Talk 01:47, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
You're a trooper, Buster7. I'm so happy to hear this. And I agree with your take. (I'm sure we're all cringing a bit, imagining how our own history would appear when analyzed like that.) We don't want to loose you, of all people. The place would go dark in some irreparable way if you disappeared. petrarchan47คุก 04:43, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────┘ Happy Thanksgiving, Gandy and all your stalkers, friendly and unfriendly alike. Food, family, friends and forgiveness. Have a great day! Buster Seven Talk 06:41, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Happy Thanksgiving beloved Buster7, Gandy and stalkers. May you enjoy every moment of this day, and every day. petrarchan47คุก 22:45, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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The pesky domestic violence matter[edit]

As you likely know (if you got the WP:Pings at the Intimate partner violence talk page and WP:ANI), I've taken the matter regarding Charlotte135 to WP:ANI; a WP:Permalink is here. I don't see what there is left for us to do to resolve the problems with this editor, other than that report. If you vote and/or otherwise comment there, you obviously don't have to respond directly to Charlotte135. Hopefully, the report gets enough participation for something productive to result from it. If you reply to me about this "pesky" post, I'd prefer that you reply here on your talk page instead of at mine; this is so the discussion is centralized. I now have your talk page watchlisted. I also have a few unwanted watchers of my talk page, and so I'd rather they not interfere with the WP:ANI report. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 18:41, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Flyer22 Reborn, in all honesty I get tired even thinking of Charlotte. I don't see how you can stand it and I'm sure that it must be a great test of your patience and even sanity. It is so unfair that all of this burden has been resting on your shoulders, but Charlotte is the kind of editor that goes over and over the same things and yet wraps them around this and that to the point that one can't possibly help out because it would take hours of time to try to get to the core/main point of the matter to make intelligent posts if one tries to get into the conversation - which does no good anyway because she ignores everything one said and just keeps saying the same thing over and over (and even copy/pasting her own arguments as I pointed out some time ago). Plus, she has that uncanny ability to hook one in so that one's ego feels a need to defend itself... She is an editor's worst nightmare. Add to that her maddening ideas on what should be in the article. Women have suffered so much physical violence it would be nice to see an article that supported women rather than to let Wikipedia harm them as well. I see that so far nobody has taken up your request. I will watch it and please let me know how I can help. My time is short these days and I'd like to work on the breastfeeding article for awhile. Do you think it would help to post for help at "Woman's" page - can't think what it's called right now... BTW, I'm calling her a "she", but I have my doubts about that... Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 02:04, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
The best approach to these editors, though, Gandydancer, is numbers. Even a line or two telling the problematic editor to knock it off helps. The problem is that we all DO get tired but trolls never seem to feel fatigue. Montanabw(talk) 00:05, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
Weeel yeees, but I've not seen you over there...nor any of the women here who say that they have a great deal of concern over women's topics. Flyer is left to do all the real work, which she does very well, but it would help her a great deal if a few others would back her up with even just a few words of support. Gandydancer (talk) 00:22, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
I did, somewhere; I think on a related page. However, sometimes I only run across this stuff by coincidence. I'm always open to a ping or a link posted on my talk page. Montanabw(talk) 02:00, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
I have noted your comments above "Add to that her maddening ideas on what should be in the article. Women have suffered so much physical violence it would be nice to see an article that supported women rather than to let Wikipedia harm them as well." Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and we report what the reliable sources say Gandydancer, not using it as a platform to promote male or female rights! Your comments are extremely telling. Enough said.Charlotte135 (talk) 03:08, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
I find it quite disturbing that you are asking females to go over to the page and post support for a topic ban. The Domestic Violence article is gender neutral And isn't asking other editors to go over and blindly add a few lines of support Gandydancer against the rules on Wikipedia. "or any of the women here, who say that they have a great deal of concern over women's topics......but it would help her a great deal if a few others would back her up with even just a few words of support." You should know better Gandydancer based on your experience. Shows a complete disregard for the project. Again, Wikipedia is not a platform to promote women's issues, or mens issues. And yes, I am a woman by the way, and a modern feminist but I am also a scientist and I can read such policies I am talking about here and realise what you Flyter22reborn and Montanabw is strictly against policy.Charlotte135 (talk) 03:22, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Charlotte135, I've said this elsewhere and I'll say it again here. Stop hounding people and focus on your own behavior. Montanabw(talk) 06:01, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Was defending myself and also bringing to light the back room conversation the three of you were having here, calling on other women to support a topic ban. Isn't that against policy? We can't go around garnishing support based on gender!! As a woman myself, your behavior is highly offensive. Talk about calling the kettle black. Stop the baseless accusations. That's my point.Charlotte135 (talk) 06:33, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
  • These are public talk pages. You need to just drop this stick. But I'll let Gandydancer clarify policies for her page. I'm just giving you advice, and my advice to you is to leave people alone at their talk pages, at least while you have an active ANI case going. Montanabw(talk) 06:57, 14 December 2015 (UTC)


Just thought that you and Montanabw should see this. It's clear, from what I'm seeing, that I'm going to have to propose a ban from gender topics for Charlotte135. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:15, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Meh. I commented there. Ping me if it goes to a drama board. Montanabw(talk) 05:44, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks Flyer22 Reborn. It is so exhausting when all of one's time needs to be devoted to attempting to work on vandalism leaving so little time to build articles. Thanks for the good work that you do. Let me know if I can help. Gandydancer (talk) 16:50, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

colossal octopus[edit]

Gandy, I am curious: did you make the tmbox above or where is it from? i see no provenance indicated.

I of course see what is going on at glyphosate. please keep up the good spirit. remember you are "replacing" not just me, but 3 banned editors who cant work to stem the butchering /erosion/whatever one wants to call it. if there is anything I can do to help with the spirit, do not hesitate to contact me. --Wuerzele (talk) 06:13, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

The tmbox was made by my good WP friend Buster Seven. We are both feminists in the true sense of the word and are concerned about many of the recent actions that have been taken by what we see as a misguided endeavor to improve WP's support for women and woman's topics. We now have an even more battleground atmosphere than ever. I'm beginning to agree with those that believe that we need to hire outside help rather than rely on Arbcom as our high court.
As for the Monsanto articles, while I am concerned with all corporate articles, Monsanto does stand out for me because I'm an organic gardener who is concerned about corporate agriculture...the genetic, GMO, aspect is of less importance to me, though I do not believe that we've done enough research as yet to say that it's safe. Sad to say, we have lost some very valuable editors that were helping to keep our Monsanto articles honest and free from bias, that is for sure. I can't even do a tiny part of the work that they were doing to keep us headed in that direction. Gandydancer (talk) 19:08, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
The pseudoscience cases have been problematic in applying discretionary sanctions to settle a simple content dispute. This is also an issue in some of the alternative medicine articles as well as several of the organic food articles. My own frustration has been when I've challenged clear cases of corporate-paid and sponsored "studies" that get peer-reviewed but are clearly as biased as anything from an advocacy organization. I also think it's important to know that MEDRS or SCIRS applies to scientific claims, but that political or newsworthy issues are not subject to these two standards. (Hence, one can argue that the New York Times is an RS to discuss a controversy or a scandal). It is important to have people on both sides weighing in on the subject matter and to be VERY firm about not personalizing the issue. (I don't always follow my own advice, but I've been bit in the butt enough times I should learn) Montanabw(talk) 21:59, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
My take is to choose one's battles very, very carefully and perhaps focus on only one or two articles, and not the highest profile ones - it's a lot easier to edit a narrow-focus article than a broad overview one. In doing so, have an extremely clear review of the peer-reviewed scientific literature covering a given area and to contribute, basically, at a FAC level - and take the article to FAC! Be willing to immediately stop edit-warring and go quickly to talk and even an RfC if needed. It is also useful to post informative links to discussions of interest to various wikiprojects, both pro and con (so long as balanced to both pro and con areas, I personally don't see a violation of the canvassing rules) Something that can pass FAC stands a better chance of having its source material pass muster elsewhere. Montanabw(talk) 21:59, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

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Season's Greetings[edit]

To You and Yours! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 11:04, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings[edit]

Section of mouse brain (false color).png Seasons Greetings

Christmas! Christmas, everywhere,
on every talk page, I do dispair
Seasons being greeted and Wikibreaks told,
but still time for a little more editing, for being WP:BOLD!
So go on, go forth and enjoy beyond concern
Your Wiki will be waiting for when you return.

  • Always a pleasure to visit. Happy everything to you and yours! Buster Seven Talk 14:11, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
This card was designed by User:Samtar

Happy Holidays![edit]

Use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message
--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 19:17, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Merry Christmas[edit]

Christmas tree sxc hu.jpg
Merry Christmas!!
Hello, I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year,

Thanks for all your help on the 'pedia! Face-smile.svg

   â€“Davey2010 Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 16:48, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Yo Ho Ho[edit]

Thanks for all you have done this year :-) Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

It's almost here...[edit]

Christmas tree worm, (Spirobranchus gigantic)
Time To Spread Some Happy Holiday Cheer!!
I decorated a special kind of Christmas tree in the spirit of the season.

What's especially nice about the digitized version is that it doesn't need water,

and it won't catch fire.
Wishing you a joyous holiday season...
...and a prosperous New Year!! 🍸🎁 🎉

Atsme📞📧 16:31, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
Pure pun-ishment. [21]

Season's Greetings[edit]

CMR Xmas greeting.jpg
Wishing you a Charlie Brown
Charlie Russell Christmas! 🎄
Best wishes for your Christmas
Is all you get from me
'Cause I ain't no Santa Claus
Don't own no Christmas tree.
But if wishes was health and money
I'd fill your buck-skin poke
Your doctor would go hungry
An' you never would be broke."
—C.M. Russell, Christmas greeting 1914.


Happy New Year .jpg
Happy New Year 2016!
Did you know ... that back in 1885, Wikipedia editors wrote Good Articles with axes, hammers and chisels?

Thank you for your contributions to this encyclopedia using 21st century technology. I hope you don't get any unneccessary blisters.
   â€“ Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:40, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Gnu Ear Greetings[edit]

Hopfendolde-mit-hopfengarten.jpgBlue Wildebeest, Ngorongoro.jpgEarrr.JPG Hopp(y) Gnu Ear

Hoppy Gnu Ear to you! Hoppy Gnu Ear to you!
Be Safe!
Buster Seven Talk 06:49, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

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Happy New Year, Gandydancer![edit]

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Old Timers[edit]

Just heard this on the radio and thought to share it with you and your stalkers.

When an old man dies, a library burns to the ground,
When an old woman dies, a school burns to the ground.


Mostly curious - from what I gather, Neonatal sepsis is a type of Neonatal infection, and both appear to be bacterial. Is there enough of a difference to warrant two separate articles? [22] Atsme📞📧 19:41, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I think that it's worth its own article. It seems to most infections are from a class of staph, but there is much more... At any rate, I would not have thought it ready for a DYK but Doc James has worked on it a few times and did not put the kibosh on it, so... Check the talk page where I left a few questions and add any of your own. BTW, when I went through it there were glaring and very careless mistakes that I did fix.Gandydancer (talk) 20:23, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Ok. I made a few tweaks to the lead. I haven't read further but if the rest is anything like the lead, there is quite a bit of work left to do. I have to work on a few other things and will return to that article as I get time. Atsme📞📧 21:28, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Wow, very professional...I'm quite impressed. Gandydancer (talk) 21:41, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Atsme please check your latest edit to the lead which I think changes the meaning somewhat. See this good article: [23] More info is also included as you get into the Wikipedia article re colonization of the mother. Gandydancer (talk) 22:23, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Ok, and I apologize if I screwed something up. I may have misunderstood what the following referred to: While preterm neonates are at a particularly high risk, full term and post-term infants can also develop infection. Neonatal infection may be associated with maternal infection and colonization prior to the birth of the infant. My take was that (1) all neonates are subject to infection under the right (or wrong) conditions, not just premies; (2) maternal infection and colonization (bacterial) prior to birth (part of which was addressed in the first paragraph of the lede as transplacental infections) which actually also includes rupture of membranes [24]; the latter being what I originally thought "maternal infection and colonization prior to the birth of the infant" referenced. Is that not correct? Atsme📞📧 22:42, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

I just wanted to check in here to give you some feedback on neonatal infection. I appreciate your edits and the article is better for your input. The edits to the lead have changed the meaning slightly, but I don't feel an urgent need to go fix the (minor) problems. As for me being a brand new editor, I am not certain why I made that impression. I have two user accounts: Bfpage and Barbara (WVS) and the edits done with these two accounts comes to a bit over 20,000. This is not my first DYK, but my second. I've lost count of the articles that I've created, but it probably is around 60 or 70. Please feel free to 'follow' me around and check up on my editing because I appreciate improvements that others make to the content. I have a problem with prose, my articles don't flow as well as they should and this seems like one of your strong points.

As far as Doc James, I don't believe he has been able to take a look at the article yet. Just fyi, neonatal infections can be bacterial, viral, fungal or from protozoa. It is a large topic and the article will be improved over time. Thank you for your help!

The Very Best of Regards,:Barbara (WVS) (talk) 03:00, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Barbara I wasn't following you around. I follow Ozzie's talk page because we work very closely together on the Ebola article and I saw your message there and decided to take a look. IMO the article needed help to bring it to DYK level and I did make a few edits. I asked Atsme for help because good copy editors have helped to improve my own work so much in the past. It seems that in this case I have gone a little too far and I regret that. As my excuse, somehow I got the idea that you were a brand new student working on her first article. I really should have been more careful. Gandydancer (talk) 03:37, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, Barbara (WVS). Your fyi was a big help, and sheds a bit more light on the topic in general. My interpretation of the topic is from a layperson's perspective so if I misinterpreted something or changed its intended meaning, I apologize. It may also be an indication that a particular sentence or subject needs a bit more clarification for the average reader while keeping it equally as appealing to collegiate level readers, all of which comprise our target audience. I'm not quite sure where or how exactly I changed the meaning of the lede, and would be very appreciative if someone would be willing to point it out to me. I don't require a detailed explanation - just a brief comparison of what was there originally VS the edits that changed its meaning. It will help me avoid making the same mistake in the future. Atsme📞📧 04:11, 17 January 2016 (UTC) I saw the edits and now understand the difference. The updated edits helped clarify the intended meaning. 04:21, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
There is no offense implied - I WANT to be followed around by editors like you; I miss so many of my own mistakes in my sometimes overzealous content creation. I always try to write for eighth graders! So I appreciate your 'layman' perspective. If the lede isn't clear, that is my fault. If you didn't understand it, then it needs to be changed. You did a good thing! I went back to the lede and fiddled around. So let me know if things got more clear or more muddy, lol. Again, Best Regards,
Barbara (WVS) (talk) 04:26, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

My rv at ARCA[edit]

Your last edit at ARCA accidentally deleted the two prior edits by other users. I reverted it to reinstate those edits and then replaced your text in a following edit. JbhTalk 12:36, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Oh dear, it looks like I'm doing something wrong but I'm not sure what it is. Thanks for fixing whatever it was. It looks like Jytdog and I might need to discuss a little further, can you explain how I should avoid making the same mistake yet again. Thanks. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 12:48, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
Hmmm... I thought it was just a case of saving over an edit conflict but the edits are exactly four hours apart - strange. Is it possible you had an edit window open for a long time? If not that I do not see anything you did that could have caused the error. My guess is it was just a wiki-Gremlin having a bit of fun :) JbhTalk 13:11, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
Well actually my window was open for quite some time... For one thing I was trying to figure out what Jytdog meant in his post and trying to follow diffs, plus I've been having computer problems where I lose my connection when I follow a dif or a ref, plus I hate arguments and hate discussion about arguments, and so on and so forth, and it took me a long time to add my post to the page. :-) Anyway, thanks for fixing my posts. Gandydancer (talk) 14:23, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Invitation to an online editathon on Black Women's History[edit]


Black Women's History online edit-a-thon

Love Heart KammaRahbek.SVG

--Ipigott (talk) 10:44, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for being one of Wikipedia's top medical contributors![edit]

please help translate this message into the local language
Wiki Project Med Foundation logo.svg The Cure Award
In 2015 you were one of the top 300 medical editors across any language of Wikipedia. Thank you from Wiki Project Med Foundation for helping bring free, complete, accurate, up-to-date health information to the public. We really appreciate you and the vital work you do! Wiki Project Med Foundation is a user group whose mission is to improve our health content. Consider joining here, there are no associated costs, and we would love to collaborate further.

Thanks again :) -- Doc James along with the rest of the team at Wiki Project Med Foundation 03:59, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

This Weeks Editor of the Week[edit] Happysquirrel (talk Â· contribs Â· count Â· logs), a relatively new editor that works hard at improving the encyclopedia experience for all. She deserves a few messages of appreciation. Dear Gandy and Petra (if your watching), I have no idea if anybody pays attention to what happens at the WER pages anymore. For years I have been challenging members of the project to Drop by his/her talk page and give him/her a pat on the back and let him/her know he/she is supported. And for years the response has been miserable. O, every now and then an editor will get nominated that has a fan club and some 5 or 6 editors will drop in to say congrats. But most of the time I have to send out specific requests to specific editors or no one but me shows up. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy giving out the awards and I enjoy the cheerful responses that I get from most awardees. But can you imagine the pleasure that we as a project would give another editor if every week 3 dozen or more editors said, "Well done. Thank you". As an example of the joy that is possible, Happysquirrel said this today after only two editors thanked her:

Thank you so much everyone! This means so much to me. It's always good to know my efforts are appreciated. As someone who works mostly with new articles and new editors, I find myself often on the margins of the community, helping people inwards, but never going in completely myself. You can't imagine how great it is to have people coming out to congratulate me.

We veteran editors waste so much precious time arguing. I know getting any membership to do something positive can be like herding cats. But...sending good wishes takes ONE minute. Editor retention happens one editor at a time. I don't think Editor Happysquirrel will be leaving soon. This message, abbreviated, is at the EotW talk page and the Project talk page. I place it here in hopes that your stalkers will respond. Buster Seven Talk 07:09, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Precious anniversary[edit]

Two years ago ...
Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg
environment dancer
... you were recipient
no. 799 of Precious,
a prize of QAI!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:39, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

I agree. Buster Seven Talk 11:17, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Just dropped in....[edit]

Glad to see you are busy at the "Bernie" article. I've decided to keep the Donald Trump campaign article on course. "I'm with Her" has a nice ring to it and I'll probably follow her into the voting booth in November. I also started to work with others at the Merrick Garland article. Many are surprised by the obstructionist tactics of the senate but "what else is new"? They have been obstructing the administration since 2008. Hope all is well. Say hi to Petra if you see her. Buster Seven Talk 11:17, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Lake City, Colorado D&RG railroad bridge.jpg[edit]

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ATTENTION: This is an automated, BOT-generated message. This bot DID NOT nominate your file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 01:00, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Best thing ever[edit]

Hi Miss Gandy, you're always in my heart. Couldn't help but to think of you: Bernie gets the God endorsement petrarchan47คุก 05:25, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Editor of the Week : nominations needed![edit]

The Editor of the Week initiative has been recognizing editors since 2013 for their hard work and dedication. Editing Wikipedia can be disheartening and tedious at times; the weekly Editor of the Week award lets its recipients know that their positive behaviour and collaborative spirit is appreciated. The response from the honorees has been enthusiastic and thankful.

The list of nominees is running short, and so new nominations are needed for consideration. Have you come across someone in your editing circle who deserves a pat on the back for improving article prose regularly, making it easier to understand? Or perhaps someone has stepped in to mediate a contentious dispute, and did an excellent job. Do you know someone who hasn't received many accolades and is deserving of greater renown? Is there an editor who does lots of little tasks well, such as cleaning up citations?

Please help us thank editors who display sustained patterns of excellence, working tirelessly in the background out of the spotlight, by submitting your nomination for Editor of the Week today!

Sent on behalf of Buster Seven Talk for the Editor of the Week initiative by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:18, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Hey dear Gandy. The response to this mass message was great. 16 new nominations are in the works, waiting for seconds. If time permits maybe you could do me the big favor of seconding those editors that you might have come across. Hope all is well. I put up a bird feeder in the back yard and have 50-75 varied sparrows as daily visitors. What might seem common to the casual observer, can be remarkable when a little attention is paid. If you've ever seen a White-crowned sparrow you'll know what I mean. They seem to know how beautiful they are. Best to you, Buster Seven Talk 16:24, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
At least I think its 50 to 75. Could be the same dozen birds that feed, leave, and come back a minute later!!!! Buster Seven Talk 16:38, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Cordial Hello[edit]

Hello Gandydancer. I just wanted to introduce myself as another female editor on WP, as we seem to be a minority here, and I strongly believe all female editors should be encouraged to continue editing and be treated with respect. I realize that in the past we had a couple of misunderstandings on the topic of domestic violence, a topic you obviously feel very strongly about. However I am hoping we can in the future, remain courteous toward each other and you speak directly with me if you have any concerns about my editing on WP. What I object to is that you seem to pop up at different discussions I was involved in and add your weight and influence as a long term and respected editor, to the discussion, but provide absolutely no reasons or evidence to support your comments and opinion, or why you felt that way.

That isn't very fair, and I am a direct woman in my own work environment as a scientist, and I do realize WP is anonymous, but I have feelings and am a human, and just thought I would approach you in peace, and hope you may drop any personal bias you have toward me or at the least, offer some actual evidence in the future, as to why you believe my edits on any article, are in any way incorrect or when you appear out of nowhere, when I am discussing something with another editor. Please feel free to comment on my talk page or ping me if you reply here. Thank you. Hope you take this in the good spirit it is intended.Charlotte135 (talk) 05:18, 23 May 2016 (UTC)


This while true still needs a reference. [25] Best Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:52, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


User:Dr. Blofeld has created Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/Contests. The idea is to run a series of contests/editathons focusing on each region of Africa. He has spoken to Wikimedia about it and $1000-1500 is possible for prize money. As someone who has previously expressed interest in African topics, would you be interested in contributing to one or assisting draw up core article/missing article lists? He says he's thinking of North Africa for an inaugural one in October. If interested please sign up in the participants section of the Contest page, thanks.♦ --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 01:21, 21 July 2016 (UTC)


In this edit[26] you added

"Upon hospital discharge and return to their community, many survivors experience stigma and isolation, sometimes even from family members. In the face of such extreme hardship the symptoms seen in post-traumatic stress disorder, including suicidal behavior, are not uncommon. "

Ref says

"Upon hospital discharge and return to their community, many survivors experience stigma and isolation, sometimes even from family members... In the face of such extreme hardship, grief, acute stress, anxiety, depression, sleep disorders, alcohol use disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder, and suicidal behaviour are common"

Need to paraphrase much more. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:08, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

And so you deleted every edit I made to the article. Well I don't know. I wonder if one day I'm going to get just totally fed up with this crap and say fuck off you asshole. I look to find some pleasure here since my time is donated and should, IMO, be at least halfway pleasurable. It is not pleasurable to work alongside assholes and I will avoid medical articles in the future. Gandydancer (talk) 18:52, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

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Frivolous question[edit]

Have you by any chance read Donald Duk by Frank Chan? (with regards to gandy dancing)? I think you might enjoy it. SashiRolls (talk) 13:06, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Donald Duk hmmm. Sorry I don't get the connection. I chose my name because I like the idea of people working as a team, even under difficult circumstances, and working joyfully, to gain a goal. Have you read "my" Gandy dancer article? Gandydancer (talk) 18:45, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
The hero of the book dreams of being a lion dancer providing rhythm for the Chinese workers building the railroad. ^^ — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:56, 24 September 2016 (UTC)


Well, while we're waiting for the wikiproject members to weigh in, nothing says I can't present this as a personal award. :)

Frybread Barnstar.png The Frybread Barnstar
The Frybread Barnstar is hereby awarded to Gandydancer for their work on the ReZpect our Water article. Mni Wiconi! - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 21:25, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Thank you so much! This is very thoughtful and sweet of you. The timing was just perfect on this one as I've been working on all of the "Bernie" articles for the last few months...and that has tapered off... I'm enjoying working on the article. As an "elder" myself, it somehow gives me a good feeling to work with a culture that honors those of us who have been around the block a few times. Both my daughter and granddaughter strongly support the movement as well. We all feel that there is a need to reconnect with our Mother and that a lot of the problems that we see today are directly related to the unhealthy separation of body, mind, and spirit. Certainly Wikipedia promotes this separation, IMO. But that's another issue... Again, thanks! Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 18:34, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
It's a good cause, and good to see you working on it! Montanabw(talk) 00:04, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you for all of your hard work. It's more than appreciated. Indigenous girl (talk) 15:31, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
Well thank you but everybody has been so NICE to me that it is a joy to help. I only wish that all of Wikipedia would work so smoothly. (I really have to chuckle because I just saw the note below (where I use the F word) regarding another article that I watch.) You know, one thing that I really like about the Native American culture is their habit of using the term "elders" with respect...because I am one of "them", and a woman, to boot. I've got a pretty good self-image and ego, but public appreciation is ALWAYS appreciated...and really just so important. The first time I was exposed to Native American issues was back in the 70's (I think...) when I lived in Minnesota and Dennis Banks, Anna Mae, etc. were in the headlines. I was a young mother with other things to deal with and was unable to join in the cause, so as to speak, though in my heart I felt an allegiance. It is so nice all these years later, now that my children are grown with children of their own, and I am retired, to have the time to devote to this issue. Thanks for the note! Gandydancer (talk) 15:59, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
Ah retirement...! Another decade or so for me, but yes... Montanabw(talk) 06:59, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Hey there Montana, just sooooooooooo good to see you at the article. Now we need to talk nice to Anna who has been relentlessly pestered to hang around. Anna??? Gandydancer (talk) 18:08, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi Gandydancer and all. Thanks for the invite. :) As I said before: well done (to all). I've been watching the wonderful Amy Goodman talk about this every day and I hope more non-indigenous people join in. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:53, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Hi Gandydancer, Montana and Anna. I just wanted to chime in (I can be obnoxious and incredibly irritating at times due to my being a stickler for my culture at large). Dennis Banks is in part responsible from Annie Mae's murder. It helps to read the trial transcripts. I met Annie Mae at one of the first protests in Plymouth and her daughter remains a very good friend.
Anna, I hope you are not feeling badgered on the pipeline protest talk page. It's difficult when it feels as though indigenous voices are being ignored and I'm sure that's not your intention. Priority from an indigenous standpoint is to have the article archive the action as accurately as possible though I understand that is not priority for many wikipedians :) Most of us could care less about hits when we are literally fighting for our water and our lives. We just want the truth out there for posterity. The camps are being over run by well intentioned white people to the extent that they are now trying to take over ceremony. There is even a Yes Magazine article about this. I'm all for unity so long as there is respect as to who's land folks are guests on :)
Gandydancer, thanks again for your hard work, just remember we're human and not all of our people have respect for elders just like many members of the dominant culture do <3 Indigenous girl (talk) 19:48, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
I've read stuff written by one or both of the daughters (years ago...) and they sounded like very good did Anna. I'm sure that you are as well. I know from living in Minnesota that being a Native American by birth is not an easy row to hoe. My husband grew up in Soudan, MN and he remembered that in the first grade if you were bad you were put at the back of the room to sit with the Indian children. Just makes one shudder.
OK, about Anna. It was not easy for me to not speak up on the talk page and it's never easy to know what to do in such a case. But I will say here that Anna would most likely win the prize for "What Wikipedian is the easiest to get along with?". Her treatment was totally uncalled for IMO. How anyone would say that to notice the page hits numbers is disrespect is beyond me. We all have POVs, and that's mine. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 20:27, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

You two are so sweet. Thank you. :) I'm not hurt or upset by that discussion about page views. I know talk pages are for article improvement and my post wasn't in that category. I should not have posted in the first place. As for page views, they really matter to me in this case. I visit American news sites and it is all click bait and Trump and idiotic articles. When I see footage, I see military-style police vs. indigenous people. Where is everybody else? Hmmpff! That is why I want people to read the article now. Things always seem to be about injustice that happened and is now documented in the archives and historical records. Then, years after the fact, there is all this "It shouldn't have happened, but we have to move on." stuff. It breaks my heart to see what is happening there and the protectors seem so alone. I guess I let my emotions get the best of me, and it spilled out with my happiness in seeing the article get more views. Maybe I over value Wikipedia as a place to get information. It's just that the news seems to give so little attention to things that matter, and so much to things that do not. Anyhow, thanks for the kind words, and of course thanks for putting this article down on paper. The record of what is happening is hugely important. I just want people to be reading it right now, at a time when something can be done, not after, looking back and saying "what a shame". And don't be cross with Corbie. Everyone is entitled to their point of view. Sorry about the long post. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:38, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

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Copying within Wikipedia requires proper attribution[edit]

Information icon Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Ghost Dance into Standing Rock Indian Reservation. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was moved, attribution is not required. — Diannaa ðŸ (talk) 22:25, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Black Lives Matter[edit]

Hey Gandy. I understand you venting your frustrations regarding the discussions, but I would recommend you go back and "nice" that up a little. There are some borderline PAs and BLP issues with that response. And while I know you haven't cast the first stone in terms of uncivil and aggressive editing, you should take it with a grain of salt. Doing right by policy always wins in the end and I believe that dispute is resolved, thanks for contributing. Scoundr3l (talk) 16:54, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

...just saw this...well thanks but fuck that. better to be uncivil from time to time and yet continue to work for this sometimes fucking frustrating project rather than throw in the towel, as some of the good editors I have met over the years have done. Gandydancer (talk) 15:46, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
I can relate to that sentiment. Montanabw(talk) 07:00, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Hi Gandy, as Petra said months ago, you're always in my heart...which is broken due to the recent passing of my son. Your kind family demeanor and words of wisdom have always calmed me in the past. Only another parent can understand.... Prayers please. Buster Seven Talk 18:31, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Oh no, no, no............ I am just beside myself and in tears. Please tell me about this very sad death. Dear Buster, my heart just goes out to you... XXXOOO Gandydancer (talk) 18:38, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
October 22, at home, heart failure. 46 years old. Born on my birth day. A beautiful kind soul. Loved by so very many. A wonderful kind hearted man it seems so strange that he would pass due to a heart attack. A smile that would melt butter and a spirit that was content in the simplicity of life and family. I do not mean to come to you to spread my pain but only to speak to his goodness in places that are dear to me. He was a good son, father, brother, friend and I know God loves him. 22:19, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Dear Friend, I am so sorry to hear this. I have sometimes tried to imagine how it would feel to lose a child and I just can't imagine anything so awful. Buster, when my granddaughter was very little she told me a horrific story about her previous death... Of course I don't go around talking about this because people would think I'm nuts. So I certainly do believe that life is eternal. But that does not help the pain of loss very much at all, does it. Again, I'm so sorry. xxxooo Gandydancer (talk) 03:03, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

I've had a rough entry into Wikipedia during this election season and I wanted to thank you for giving me a bit of hope by the example of your user & talk pages. I don't know what you would like to do concerning the DAPL pages, but I agree with those who supported adding it to "in the news" the first time, and this time will pay attention to the nomination if it is nominated again. But then again, perhaps that's why I've had a rough entry into Wikipedia... ^^ SashiRolls (talk) 21:15, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Star of life.svg

I'm leaving a note here in case the ping isn't working...its you (and Brian) that should be commended for so much effort that was put into the article, while I helped, it was really your ability with words (text) is what gave West_African_Ebola_virus_epidemic life. There are so many articles I wish you would give your input on, at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine many people give opinions, I feel you could give knowledge, I feel you could help w/ so many issues (consider it)...and thank you[27] again...(PS I changed the background color b/c I'm having trouble seeing the border on my PC[28])--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 18:51, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Ozzie, you are just such a sweetie. Sorry to say, but I have had to mostly back away from all of the medical articles. It is sad since I (and many of my friends) do have a POV that we believe is important to include in WP. Talking with my friends (I'm the only WP editor), they just roll their eyes... But right now a certain POV is dominant and small voices, such as mine and those of my friends , are not current with the present Wikipedia mindset. Gandydancer (talk) 20:03, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

Scale of justice 2.svgHello, Gandydancer. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

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If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Happy Holidays![edit]

Gandydancer, Happy holidays/New Year!--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:23, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks dear brother Ozzie10aaaa. The card is beautiful. My WP time has been short of late but as always it does bring me joy and a feeling that I am helping with the spread of knowledge, as you are doing as well. "Tidings of comfort and joy!" (to be quite dramatic, indeed), to you! :) Gandydancer (talk) 19:12, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Can I ask you a few questions for the Wikimedia blog?[edit]

Hi Gandydancer, my name is Samir Elsharbaty and I work with the Wikimedia Foundation's communications team. I'm writing a blog post about the Dakota Access pipeline protests and the impact of the news about it on Wikipedia. Since you are one of the main contributors to the Wikipedia page about it, I was wondering if I can send you a few questions and use your answers in my post. You can see examples of our News on Wikipedia posts here. If you are interested, please send me a message at, or provide me with a valid email address for you. Thanks. --Selsharbaty (WMF) (talk) 12:54, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

User talk:Selsharbaty (WMF) Sorry for the delay--I have not had much time for WP of late. I'd be glad to talk with you. My email is


How did she make the three-dimensional fish in File:Birthday cake for one-year old.jpg? I've no interest in re-creating this, but since I ran across your picture, I can't stop wondering. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:48, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry, merry![edit]

From the icy Canajian north; to you and yours! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 22:39, 26 December 2016 (UTC) Lights ablaze.JPG

Editor of the Week seeking nominations (and a new facilitator)[edit]

The Editor of the Week initiative has been recognizing editors since 2013 for their hard work and dedication. Editing Wikipedia can be disheartening and tedious at times; the weekly Editor of the Week award lets its recipients know that their positive behaviour and collaborative spirit is appreciated. The response from the honorees has been enthusiastic and thankful.

The list of nominees is running short, and so new nominations are needed for consideration. Have you come across someone in your editing circle who deserves a pat on the back for improving article prose regularly, making it easier to understand? Or perhaps someone has stepped in to mediate a contentious dispute, and did an excellent job. Do you know someone who hasn't received many accolades and is deserving of greater renown? Is there an editor who does lots of little tasks well, such as cleaning up citations?

Please help us thank editors who display sustained patterns of excellence, working tirelessly in the background out of the spotlight, by submitting your nomination for Editor of the Week today!

In addition, the WikiProject is seeking a new facilitator/coordinator to handle the logistics of the award. Please contact L235 if you are interested in helping with the logistics of running the award in any capacity. Remove your name from here to unsubscribe from further EotW-related messages. Thanks, Kevin (aka L235 Â· t Â· c) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:19, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

hi Gandy![edit]

WJM Poster (hyperlinked)
  • if you or anyone you know be interested, thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:17, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

February 2017 at Women in Red[edit]

Ruth Behar.jpg

February 2017

Black Women & Women Anthropologists online editathons
Faciliated by Women in Red

Women in Red logo.svg

(To subscribe, Women in Red/Invite list. Unsubscribe, Women in Red/Opt-out list) --Ipigott (talk) 14:45, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Choice of Bernie Sanders images[edit]

Hi Gandydancer, Thanks for your efforts to clean up Bernie Sanders. I notice that you went back to a combination of images that we discussed at Talk:Bernie Sanders/Archive 16#Photo edits (I gave the wrong link in my edit summary). I reverted back to the original combination, pending a discussion on the relative merits of each, which I thought that we had already had. I look forward to discussing them at Talk:Bernie Sanders, if you would like to change the mix of images. Cheers, User:HopsonRoad 14:05, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Attention: WikiProject African diaspora participants[edit]

Hello fellow project participants. Not sure how many users are still active as normal Wikipedia editors but felt the need to attempt to get a gauge on who can be called on for help with articles falling under the umbrella of the African diaspora project. According to the project's article table there are over six thousand articles related to the African diaspora; there's not a hundred at FA/GA grade and there's over twelve hundred that are unassessed. With Wikipedia being one of the major information reference points in the world today we should consider this unacceptable. Much work needs to be done on the rating of the importance of articles as well. With more communication amongst participants and a dedication to addressing the articles on the to-do list I believe we can make this WikiProject one of the most well organized and thorough on the site. If you are interested in collaborative work with some of your fellow project members, have certain expertise on any particular subjects, ideals on/about the WikiProject, etc. simply drop your name under the "Project revision" section I've created on the project's talk page and state your intentions and main points of interest in our WikiProject and we can attempt to move forward from there. Hoping to hear from everyone soon! WikiGuy86 (talk) 03:47, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Aunt Rose[edit]

In reference to the story on User:Gandydancer, imagine the harm Aunt Rose's principal did to the children by shielding them from exposure to disabled people. Many of them grew up to be bigoted not only against disabled people, but all sorts of other people who varied from their norms and made them uncomfortable - gay, Muslim, Mexican, ... Bryan Henderson (giraffedata) (talk) 17:48, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Pesticide topics[edit]

Commons-emblem-notice.svg This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding all pages relating to genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals and the companies that produce them, broadly construed, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.
I'm not sure how much you've kept up with the topic, so just making sure you're aware of things like 1RR, etc. Kingofaces43 (talk) 02:18, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Copying within Wikipedia requires proper attribution[edit]

Information icon Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Debbie Wasserman Schultz into Bernie Sanders presidential campaign, 2016. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was moved, attribution is not required. — Diannaa ðŸ (talk) 20:28, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

re:Jimbo talk[edit]

The main reason was the comparison to murder sentences in Russia - 15 years max the last time I looked. Other factors, he was drunk and drugged, 21 - almost a minor himself. I can see why people might disagree, but I hope you see there are good faith reasons on the other side. Sincerely, Smallbones(smalltalk) 20:35, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Copyright problem on Yoshiko Uchida[edit]

Material you included in the above article appears to have been copied from the copyright web page or elsewhere online. Copying text directly from a source is a copyright violation. Unfortunately, for copyright reasons, the content had to be removed. Please leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions or if you think I made a mistake. — Diannaa ðŸ (talk) 13:47, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Helen Caldicott[edit]

Regarding her activist activities, she does make a large number of statements claiming things which are matters of fact within science. The problem is that what she claims is often not the same as a mainstream scientist would claim on the subject. Many of her statements are not compatible with the results of scientific experiments, I recall that one of the Wikipedia principles is that undue weight should not be given to fringe views. I hold the view that if she makes a claim we should consider how it compares with other literature. The other literature being based on real experiments and being peer reviewed should be trusted more than a claim made by Helen (Her claims are not normally ever subject to peer review). So I think we should mention and discuss opposing views. I hold the view that there should be no original work on wikipedia by the editors, so we should not use our own views on subjects, instead if someone else has published a good quality review on a topic we should use it instead.

I have looked at some of what she has written and the vast majority of her statements on radioactivity can be shown within a short time to be wrong. I know that she might be a hero to many people but we should consider her work in a critical and unbiased way rather than either just repeating it or agreeing blindly with it. We can also use the standard methods of established subjects to generate content. Comparing one work with the rest of the scientific literature is a standard method in science.

I also have to ask why you think an book review by Ian Fells in Nature is not significant due to the status of Ian Fells, I have checked and Ian Fells ( is a Prof of Energy Conversion at a University. Also the fact that it was published in one of the best scientific journals (Nature) also does add to the weight of the review. I think currently that the article about Helen is not NPOV it is currently an article which seems to praise her too much rather than looking at her work in a neutral and unbiased manner.Cadmium (talk) 18:57, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Cadmium, I agree that it appears that Caldicott does not appear to always use sound science for her claims. The conversation with Monbiot was, IMO, a good discussion of the problem and it does help to add some criticism to the article. If you can find similar well-sourced discussions that specifically address Caldicott I think we could include them, however to just add differing opinions would not be appropriate in her bio. Many bios in WP include opinions that differ with scientific authority, for example the many U.S. politicians that disagree with climate change as a result of human activity which is agreed to by 97% of climate scientists, but we don't explain how and why they are wrong in their articles. In her bio we need to explain Caldicott's opinion on nuclear energy - if a person wants an unbiased opinion on the use of nuclear energy they can go to that specific article. But I do think that the Monbiot quotes could be improved, for example, "In a reply Caldicott claimed that tritium is particularly dangerous compared with gamma" seems an odd summary of that source, IMO. Gandydancer (talk) 15:54, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
Hi Gandydancer. I would like to discuss with you an inconsistency within Wikipedia. If you look at Johan_Galtung and Daniele_Ganser two randomly chosen peace studies experts you will find sections on both people in which they ideas and conduct is subject to some form of discussion / criticism. I feel that if discussion of Helen's ideas and conduct on the page devoted to her is not permitted then the same standard should apply to the other two pages. I have checked and you have not edited the page about D. Ganser (at least in the last 150 edits) so it is clear that in the case of the two peace studies people vs Helen that you could never be accused of having a double standard. But I think that the issue should be considered of why on wikipedia why it is not OK to discuss Helen's views and statements while it is OK for someone to be critical of Gatung and/or Ganser. I would err on the side of allowing some discussion of Helen's ideas as long as the criticism is sourced to someone else's work or is the clear product of standard methods in science / medicine or another academic discipline.Cadmium (talk) 14:31, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
As I said, I believe that criticism would improve the article since she is controversial. On the other hand, reading the Nuclear power debate article it is clear that she would not be considered "fringe". The articles that you point out use sources that directly address the individual and if you can find similar discussions for Caldicott that would be good. I've looked and I haven't found anything. BTW, the conversation is about Caldicott, not me - would you mind moving it to her page? Gandydancer (talk) 17:08, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Regarding the move of venue to the talk page for Helen, I think your request is perfectly reasonable. I will copy the discussion over to the talk page. I will include a comment to state that it has be relocated.Cadmium (talk) 18:48, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Category:American prostitutes[edit]

Of the 79 that are currently on the list how many have you determined need to be removed as unsubstantiated? I see @Monatanabw: has removed at least one. Back after dinner duty!―Buster7  00:04, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi Buster, it is so good to talk with you again. I have only gone through the A's and mentioned the one. As I said already it is my fear that people will just go through the list and strike some out without improving the articles. As for the ongoing discussion, I was not exactly thrilled with the way it had progressed...Face-smile.svg. Let's keep in touch. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 01:25, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
I'd be glad to work on the articles with you. Don't worry about that discussion. We can have our own. TRA! B7―Buster7  05:11, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
A part of the discussion got me to thinking and reflecting on my life. I spent more than half of my 55 years of working as a walk-up Janitor in residential buildings in Chicago and Evanston. My father, two Uncles, my older brother and many older family friends...were all SEIU janitors. Now, granted... "janitor" does not have anywhere near the demeaning capacity that "prostitute" has...but it's in a similar ballpark. It is a label of limitation, an implication of incapacity, a designation of class. Its used to denote the bottom of an organization; "from janitor to president". If a WikiPedia article were to be written about me, I would not want to be categorized as Janitor. I think these ladies would feel the same. ―Buster7  09:13, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

That's why I love you Buster--you have something that children that were born with a silver spoon in their mouth find much harder to understand. We can only experience for others what we have experienced for ourselves. Empathy is a very precious thing indeed. I'll tell you a story about how I came to understand something about women. I used to be an RN and in the 80's I worked in drug and alcohol treatment. One of our counselors, Velda, would tell the nurses that this or that woman patient (client) of hers had been abused when she was a child. The nurses would joke among themselves, "Oh Velda says that about all of her clients". This was before it was known that somewhere around a quarter of all women were sexually abused as children with the number much higher for those that are drug/alcohol addicted, and today I have no doubt that her clients were indeed all abused. Anyway, in the evenings the nurses sat in the office and talked with any clients that came in or talked with each other. One night a nurse, Bev, and I were talking about Velda's clients and it suddenly came to me, "Hey wait, it happened to me too!". I'm sure that you've heard of how a person can build a wall around a memory that they can't deal with and forget it ever happened until something jars their memory.

Buster, it's funny that when the memory came back I remembered it very well and it remains my most vivid memory from that age. It happened when we were living in a tiny Airstream trailer in a trailer camp in Colorado. I was in kindergarten. "Daddy" was still in the Great Lakes Naval Hospital in Chicago and we moved on ahead to Colorado where we'd be living when he got out. An older man named Bill also lived in a trailer in the park. One day he got my little sister Judy and me to sit in the back of his car while he took us on a pretend ride. Then he got me to sit in front so I could pretend to drive. Then he took my hand and held it on his penis while he masterbated till he ejaculated. I remember him saying over and over, "it's coming, it's coming" and some white stuff that came out. (It's a terrible memory and I almost start to cry just remembering it even now.) Anyway, I don't remember but I'm sure he said, "Don't tell, it's our secret". So that night when we were all in bed (Judy and I slept in the bed at the end and Mama and our older sister slept in the one that makes up using the table) and the lights were out I said to Mama, "I have a secret". Mama promised a campfire wienie roast, something we loved, if I'd tell. (The humor of the "wienie roast" part was not lost on Bev and we had a good laugh over that!) Anyway Buster, here was something that happened only once to me, something compared to what has happened to other girls is pretty mild, plus I had a really good mom, and look how profoundly it affected me. That came even more clear to me a few nights later when I told the man I was seeing at that time about it, and I remember that very well too. We were laying in bed in the dark and when I told him I was (unexpectedly to myself) sobbing -- I actually seemed to have thought that I was telling him something terrible that I had done, not something that was done to me, and that now he couldn't love me any longer. Anyway, bless his soul he wrapped his arms around me and just held me until I had cried it all out. But Buster, this shows how it works, how women take the blame for things that were done to them and feel guilt and shame. It shows how it is years later that they may feel the courage to say something because other women are reporting something similar.

BTW, what happened to me was bad enough but my telling encouraged Bev to talk about something for the first time that night, and something much worse. She said that her father had come into the girls bedroom at night and "touched" them.

Well Buster, to move on should we get started? For our reasoning for our editing what I find not to be appropriate for a bio I could not find much help. There is plenty of information for a BLP, but it seems that if they are dead, like my mother or yours for example, WP is not so concerned. I found only Wikipedia:Neutral point of view to use as a guideline. Can you find anything? For the list American Prostitutes this should work for most, don't you think?

A central concept used in categorising articles is that of the defining characteristics of a subject of the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently defineCite error: A <ref> tag is missing the closing </ref> (see the help page).


Lolly Wolly Doodle[edit]

However I felt about what you wrote at Dennis's talk page, I do realize I should probably explain how the article got that way when I was first writing it. Basically, I was looking for things that would make a good DYK hook, something that would draw lots of clicks, and while I thought that the business angle whereby LWD was believed to have figured out how to use Facebook as a sales channel where larger, established companies had not been was enough, I knew I needed more possible hooks than that, so I put a lot of that human interest stuff in there.

Indeed, the reviewers at DYK turned out to be skeptical of running a hook about that, no matter how well it was sourced, so we went with the HI one instead. Ironically, that fact has subsequently been deleted from the article (I wish it had been kept; I don't think it's every man who learns how to sew to support his wife's business, though I think a lot of women in that position would be just thrilled. But I'm just not going to go there right now). Daniel Case (talk) 19:53, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you so very much for your note. I really appreciate it. A little about my editing history: I've worked on many corporate articles and it has been nothing short of extreme disgust for the efforts of corporate promoters to bias our articles. For example, where an editor brazenly said right out to the corporate rep editor, "just write up what you want and we'll get it in" - that was the BP oil spill article. Or the Chevron article where they mucked up the landscape that belonged to indigenous people and then carried on a lawsuit for years (and eventually won) while the corporate rep replaced news articles with primary lawsuit sites, and so on. And at that same article where one of our seemingly lily-white paid editors seemed, to me at least, to be working in their favor as we were trying to clean the article up. That same paid editor clearly, to me at least, drug another article out for months when it could have been resolved - and why not when you're getting paid by the month? Or the Monsanto articles where every effort to provide information about any on-going lawsuits is almost instantly deleted or watered down. I could go on... One that is almost sort of funny is the Cracker Barrel Restaurant chain - I think that exchange is in the last archive. So you can see why I've become so jaded when it comes to corporate articles. About the LWD article, I agree that the family help part is worthwhile and I added it back. I made a few CE's as well. Again, thanks for the note. BTW, I had two girls and I made all of their clothing as well. When I got my first new sewing machine my husband wanted to try it out and he made a potholder. It was so cute. (I mean him, not the potholder) Gandydancer (talk) 21:23, 11 January 2018 (UTC)


Commons-emblem-notice.svg This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding all edits about, and all pages related to post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 08:35, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Racial views of Donald Trump[edit]

Just a heads up the article is under consensus required. You added the material to the article here, it was challanged here, and you reinserted without concensus here. PackMecEng (talk) 15:18, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the heads up. I'm not sure what to do to remedy this mistake, if it is one. Suggestions? Gandydancer (talk) 15:38, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
My guess would be a self revert and start a discussion. Not really sure thought, there seems to be a lot of uncertainty on that particular provision. PackMecEng (talk) 15:46, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. I will start a discussion. Gandydancer (talk) 15:54, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
You haven't self-reverted. You should. Galobtter (pingó mió) 16:30, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 8[edit]

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Joseph Campbell[edit]

Hello, Gandydancer. Regarding your recent edit at Joseph Campbell, let me say that I am trying to work with other editors. I have explained to Dkudler why I disagree with his changes, but he has not as yet replied; perhaps you could politely suggest to him that he should try to work with me? It would also help if you could comment about the issues on the article's talk page instead of reverting me without real explanation. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 00:47, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the message. I commented on the talk page. I agree that he needs to respond there as well. Gandydancer (talk) 16:18, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

February 2018[edit]

Copyright problem icon Your addition to Racial views of Donald Trump has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. — Diannaa ðŸ (talk) 14:50, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 27[edit]

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Discussion at Talk:Political positions of Bernie Sanders[edit]

Hi Gandydancer, this is to invite you to a discussion at Talk:Political positions of Bernie Sanders#Standard for describing a "position". Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 14:05, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your post, Gandydancer. Do you support my proposal to require a legislator's explanation or justification when a vote is mentioned? Do you support changing the second sentence to "He has articulated positions on many political issues, including his Congressional voting record"? Or do you have a different suggestion for establishing a standard for defining a "position"? Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 20:34, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
It's really surprising that the Sanders article has so few responses to the current issue. At any rate, the whole thing seems to have more to do with a personal crusade than a real wish to improve our encyclopedia. Hopefully we can work something out on the talk page. Gandydancer (talk) 17:38, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 9[edit]

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Pullman porter change[edit]

Hello, Gandy. Since you seem to care about this article too, I want to explain why I have edited your last edit, and removed the reference you placed there. The historian lady is talking off the cuff, and makes several erroneous, or somewhat confused statements. Her claim that porters "had to pay for their sheets and towels" is particularly careless: as much so as someone today saying that Hilton Hotel maids have to pay for "their" sheets and towels. It makes no sense, from any point of view, especially when you consider that the Pullman Company was well known to the public as "The World's Greatest Housekeeper," as this circa 1930 Pullman brochure makes clear: travelers used millions of the familiar Pullman-emblazoned sheets, towels, and blankets every year. The porters could not possibly have paid for all that linen. I have been unable to find any online source that suggests they did.

Ms. Historian meant well, but was obviously in error - I have just spent all evening trying to track down her specific claim of $33 a month for such supplies, and I think I found it, in the 1926 report "The Pullman Porter" issued by the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters. You might find it interesting reading, as they go into great detail about pay, overtime, expenses, and conditions of work; however, nowhere in that booklet is any mention of the porters having to pay for sheets and towels - which seems to me they would surely have mentioned along with all the other onerous impositions they labored under.

So I have deleted the history lady's brief, unreliable video in favor of a new paragraph containing these same statistics, and a link to the BSCP report itself, which I believe is a much more reliable source. Please let me know if you agree.

You might also be interested in the wealth of documents found at the Newberry Libary's online Pullman Company exhibition. Textorus (talk) 04:25, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

"Ms. Historian" is Dr.Lyn Hughes, founder of the museum mentioned in the article. She has written a book on the subject and started a list of the thousands of retired Pullman workers as well. As for me, who you called in your edit summary "oh-so-clueless", I have written most of the article and have spent many hours researching, having read most of what is available. That said, you are correct about the copy that used the word "porter" when "waiter" would have been correct. However, the photo should be returned to the article with the correct caption. Gandydancer (talk) 15:10, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Dr. Hughes's efforts in that field are commendable, but the truth is that even museum founders and Ph.D.'s, male and female, are human beings who can and do make egregious mistakes, and Dr. Hughes told a whopper - which you, despite your vast researches, failed to notice, and reproduced in the wikiarticle, which potentially may misinform who knows how many thousands of readers. The article is about Pullman porters, not waiters, so if you want to restore the irrelevant photo with a different caption, that's up to you. I see that you have a lot of regard for your own efforts and very little for my mine, and seem to resent the addition of correct information from reliable sources, so I'm moving on here - do whatever you please with this article. This careless regard for truth is why I mainly confine myself to minor copyedits nowadays - and usually regret making a big effort as I did here. So have all the fun with it you want - I'm done. Textorus (talk) 18:48, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Textorus I have done nothing to suggest that I do not regard your edits. I have not changed or deleted anything you added other than move the box quote from the lead to the body of the article. Actually I think that your edits have improved the article a great deal. As for the "sheets and towels", I agree that they could not have possibly had to pay for all the linens used by the passengers, I assumed that Hughes meant that they had to pay for the ones that they used on over-night trips. Regarding your belief that the article is about only Pullman porters and not the other black Pullman staff, I don't agree with that. The union included the waiters and while they are generally called "Pullman porters" in the media, the waiters are included in the body of the article. For example see this:
Retired train porters (l-r) Lee Gibson, 98, Thomas H. Gray, 71, Samuel Coleman, 80, James Smith, 83, and Troy Walker, 90, were honored at the Amtrak station in Oakland, Calif. Tuesday morning Feb. 10, 2009 in aceremony celebrating the work of the Pullman Porters. Pullman Porters were African American men who worked the sleeping cars and dining cars in rail’s heyday. The work was hard and they were segregated from white workers for many years. The country’s first black labor union, the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters, was formed by the porters who worked those sleeping and dining cars. (Karl Mondon/ Oakland Tribune) (this is from the Recognition section)
BTW of the five men mentioned above, only one was a porter, the others all worked the dining car. Gandydancer (talk) 17:33, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
Well, Gandy, I suppose since I added the two lede paragraphs about waiters, cooks, and maids, the article could now be said to be "about" all of them, though only the porters are dealt with in any detail. Instead of changing the article name to something long and awkward, perhaps a separate article on Pullman dining car service is warranted. An article on Pullman maids would also be nice - why should the men get all the attention? - but as there were so few of them, I suspect it would involve much more digging though sources. But I do want to reiterate that porters and waiters are not at all the same thing, despite the sloppy, careless usage of uninformed journalists. (I have often noted such wet-behind-the-ears journos refer to a locomotive as a train, but that does not change the actual definition of either the one or the other.)
To give a modern example: Olive Garden employs cooks, waiters, bus boys, bartenders, sommeliers, cashiers, and others, but you would never lump them all together as cooks or waiters, would you? And if they were all African-American, it would be rather condescending to take no notice of the difference in their work, wouldn't it? If you read a little further in your sources, I think you will see that porters and waiters themselves were rather proud of their own specialties, and did not at all see themselves as interchangeable. And as someone who rode quite a few high-class trains before they disappeared into Amtrak, I can assure you that no traveler would have made that kind of mistake either, just as you would never confuse your waiter at Chili's with the person who cooks your food, or the kid who clears your table. A hairdresser and a manicurist may work in the same place for the same employer, but they have distinct jobs, right?
To make another point, Pullman invented the dining car in 1868, and the heyday of Pullman dining car service was from the 1880s to World War I; after that, most railroads operated their own dining car services, which were never, ever profitable for anyone - but the dining cars attracted passengers, and, so the railroads hoped, also public goodwill, which likewise boosted freight customers. That last part might have been wishful thinking, but many railroads took great pride in their dining car services - see, for example, the famous Fred Harvey system of the Santa Fe and the Great Big Baked Potato of the Northern Pacific - and they advertised them extensively. So by the end of World War II, I believe Pullman dining cars were used only by a couple of minor railroads - thus, Pullman waiters and cooks were a rather small group compared to the 10 or 12 thousand porters. I don't have exact figures, which would be a whole 'nother research project, but two fairly reliable sources are The Cars of Pullman (2010) and Dining by Rail (1998), if you ever want to dig further in this topic.
I see that you have already done a great deal of good work with this article, and I'm glad I could contribute usefully on a topic I know something about. I'm a crusty old retired guy who edits Wikipedia just for fun - but misinformation purveyed as fact really gets my goat, especially in this era when so much knowledge is literally at people's fingertips - and I understand that the newer computers now will simply tell you what you want to know if you just ask them a question out loud. So to my mind, there is simply no excuse for "fake facts." I don't claim to know everything, but if I can help you with anything railroad-history related, feel free to ask.Textorus (talk) 19:24, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Textorus I just can't thank you enough for the links to the two books. I read them both and really enjoyed it. My memory of train travel goes back a long way as well - and I bet even farther back than yours! Face-smile.svg I remember "petting" the mink coat of a women as we boarded a train for Chicago in around 1945. "Mama" was moving to Chicago with her family of three girls because "Daddy" had been wounded in the war and had been sent to the Naval hospital to recover from his wounds. I remember how the "lady" smiled a "isn't that just too cute" smile when I petted her coat (I'd never seen a mink coat before). I also remember sleeping in the upper berth with my little sister and our mother and older sister slept on the lower. It's fun to talk about old times! Best Gandy dancer Gandydancer (talk) 02:34, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Gandydancer, that's a cute story. You have a few years on me, but I was lucky to get to ride some great trains while they lasted. I'm glad you enjoyed the books, which give us old-timers a chance to revisit some fond memories of a pleasure that will never return, sadly. "Dinner in the diner, nothin' could be finer" -- so true! Textorus (talk) 09:46, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
I too am a crusty old retired guy who edits Wikipedia just for fun. And it has been fun watching you two veterans resolve what could have been a journey down a "ruff" path that we all see to often at our beloved WP. My most memorable train ride was from Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan up into the Canadian wilderness. All the way up and back I hung my head out like a dog in the front seat. ―Buster7  19:49, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
Ha ha Buster, I think we got along because anyone that loves trains knows that another train-lover must be OK after all. Textorus, Buster hails from Chicago which was once, and perhaps still is?, the hub of all railroads. I think that Buster and I have already talked trains somewhere above on this talk page of mine, right Buster? OK, another train story of mine: When young marrieds my sis and I traveled from Minnesota to Oregon to meet with our older sister and her family (yes, the same three little girls I mentioned above that traveled with their mom during the war years). I had two little girls aged, I think, six and five. My sis had two little boys aged four and three. Anyway, the little three-year-old was in the process of training and no longer wearing diapers. But there was some sort of problem with his little weanie - I remember some sort of surgery, minor something, to fix it. At any rate, my sis had to spend (it seemed like) hours in the lavatory with him while he waited for his flow to start. As if that wasn't bad enough, he would only pee in a toilet that was not "broken" (meaning a full circle one, the one without a space in the front). The only bathroom with an unbroken toilet was the very last car of the train. So that's how it was... I remember how after we finally got all the kids to sleep sis Judy and I went to the club car for a drink before we turned in as well. I was OK because my girls were doing well but Judy was at her wit's end. She ordered a gimlet. The (black) "porter" regretfully told us that he could not serve her because we were in the small 50-mile stretch of Idaho which was either dry or perhaps that particular county was dry at that time, and by the time that the train had made it across that stretch it would be too late in the night to serve according to another (national?) law. BUT, what a beautiful trip! My two most cherished scenery memories are of the massive rolling hills of Montana - it truly is "the big sky country". And then in Washington (I think) how beautiful as the tracks followed the river, as tracks often do since nature has already cut the way through mountain ranges. The same is true in my home state of Colorado. Buster I can well imagine your Canada train ride. More later. Gandydancer (talk) 15:39, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
I'm sure your nephew would be glad to know that after 'lo these many years you are still remembering "his little weanie". ―Buster7  21:46, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
At first, I mistakenly assumed that Gandydancer was a young flibbertigibbet, but she's a good old gal - you know what they say about assume. Too bad we can't all meet for drinks and swap some train stories. Textorus (talk) 06:21, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Editing input[edit]

Hey, Gandydancer. I guess you are the only other editor I forgot to ping for the following: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Barbara (WVS)'s editing of medical and anatomy articles. I mean the only other editor I can think of who has expressed concerns about the editor in question. I'm not sure if you want to weigh in or not, but, given some commentary you've made regarding the editor's editing, which is now see at Talk:Rape/Archive 22 and Talk:Rape/Archive 23#My last edit...(Effects/Emotional and Psychological), I figured I'd go ahead and let you know. This is appropriate notification since you've been involved in the past and everyone else has already been pinged. So if they weigh in or not, it's up to them. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:55, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Hey there Missy! Flyer22 Reborn what a great job you did in handling that very difficult situation. I had hoped to add a few words but time has been too short for me to put something together that would come across as well as I would have liked. Plus, the great work by both Sandy Georgia and Clayoquot seems to have covered the situation very well. Besides, it would have been hard for me to not make mention of the "smear" comment and then to bitch about the obvious lack of understanding of how (goddamn Face-smile.svg) hard and time consuming it is to try to fix a string of bad edits. The others didn't mention the objectionable editors/edits and they were right... Flyer, that episode really would be a good model of how to handle difficult WP situations. You're the best. Gandydancer (talk) 02:57, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

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Postpartum physiology[edit]

Thank you Gandydancer for looking into this article. I know there are some major problems but haven't had the energy to fix any of them. I totally feel your pain about how disheartening the whole mess is. I'm kind of swamped with work & other stuff at the time being but hope to help out in the near future. You are awesome. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 03:53, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

You are sweet...and super awesome as well. You write extremely well and have an unusually good head on your shoulders too. Clayoquot, if you have time and it is easy for you could you formulate this link for me? [29] The info I want to use is on p.42. I used to know how to do books but methods have changed so much that I can no longer figure things out. The reason that I'd like it done right is because the boss of the breastfeeding article removed my section on leaking because of the ref I used. C., I think you nursed, right? I have a question. I remember holding my arms against my breasts when milk started to be let down unexpectedly, I remember my sis doing the same. Did you have that experience? I'm asking because I searched high and low for the "pressure on breasts" to hold the flow back and could only find the blog I used - surly it must be common knowledge...I guess?...or not? Gandydancer (talk) 23:31, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
Aw, thanks! I plugged the ISBN for the book into Citer, a relatively new & extremely handy tool. The results are here: Yes, pressure on the breasts to stop leaking is something I've done, and most breastfeeding women have done. I nursed my first baby for three and a half years and I'm still nursing my one year old. Yeah, the high bar for sourcing for things like the management of normal bodily fluids is making it harder to improve the article. Take care, sister! Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 04:11, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Clayoquot, I have again removed the video after taking courage from the ongoing discussion on Jimbo's talk page. If you don't make a post about the Osmosis video to his talk page I will, but you'd do it better than me since you write so well. Let me know... Gandydancer (talk) 17:11, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Clarification of wording of Barbara's topic ban[edit]

Sandstein has closed the User:Barbara (WVS) ANI discussion with a topic ban worded "is topic-banned (WP:TBAN) from medical articles". Following discussion with Sandstein regarding the scope of that topic ban (User_talk:Sandstein#What_the_topic_ban_covers), it is felt that further wording is required. Therefore it is proposed that the wording of the topic ban is amended to read:

"By consensus of the community, Barbara (WVS) (talk Â· contribs), also editing as Bfpage (talk Â· contribs), is topic-banned (WP:TBAN) from health and medical topics, including anatomy and sexuality, broadly construed, and is also banned from interacting with Flyer22 (talk Â· contribs) (WP:IBAN)."

As you took place in the discussion, please visit Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Proposal_for_clarification_of_scope_of_topic_ban to give your views. SilkTork (talk) 08:35, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Edit warrior[edit]

"considering that we're all supposed to be able to edit WP, which often means not only long discussions but a degree of edit warring as well, how would an edit war of a video proceed?". I love that. Opposed because you can't edit war over a video :-) But it is true, where would you have the conversation? Commons might rapidly block both parties and ask them never to darken its door again. And I really know know the procedures for protecting media files in the event of warring, as I'm neither a Commons nor Wikipedia admin. I think, but could be wrong, that Wikipedia can apply protection to the copy of a file that is on Wikipedia, like for when it is on the main page. But I could be talking through a hole in my head on that one. -- Colin°Talk 21:39, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Oh my Colin, now that you have complemented me I have to admit that the thought was not mine - it was borrowed from the editor that wrote the very funny "fuck, fuck, fuck,..." post. But speaking of complements, I have admired your posts many times and really appreciate what you are doing for Wikipedia. And for the difficult Dr., you have him pegged just right. I like him and I think he's a good doc but he has a really bad case of the doctor/god syndrome. I know a lot about that problem because I am a retired RN. I got so sick of it at one time what with his t*****s always ready to back him up regardless of the conflict, that I just quit editing medical articles. The straw that broke the camel's back was a war over the WHO's advice on length of time to nurse which is: "introduction of nutritionally-adequate and safe complementary (solid) foods at 6 months together with continued breastfeeding up to 2 years of age or beyond." The other ref we are using says, "breastfeeding for 1 year or longer as mutually desired by mother and infant, a recommendation concurred to by the WHO78 and the Institute of Medicine. He would allow only "until at least one to two years of age." It was important to me to include "or beyond" to support Western woman who would like to nurse for a longer period of time but face social obstacles. It would help those woman to say that the WHO advises it. I am the leading editor of Breastfeeding and you'd think that I should have some say when it comes to a disagreement of this type, but that has not been the case at all. Anyway, very good to talk to you. Gandydancer (talk) 04:20, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
I am interested in the number of people in recent discussions who have found it highly amusing that a lay/anonymous person might question a doctor's judgement wrt medical articles/videos at all. There seems to be a belief in some that an MD is omniscient in all medical matters. We wouldn't assume that being called a scientist made one omniscient in all scientific matters: a physicist is not an expert in DNA. Even experienced editors have claimed that because User:X is a doc, their authority on any medical subject should be assumed. A consultant cardiologist might just about remember getting a 2 hour lecture on anticonvulsants 20 years ago. I am wondering if WP needs a WP:OMNIDOC essay. -- Colin°Talk 11:19, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Yes, that's how it is. In RL disagreeing with or finding fault with a MD is one of the hardest things there is. I know of many cases over the years where a MD was as much as killing patients through his substandard care and yet nothing was done about it. Nurses know what is going on but are unable to do much of anything. I know because I once filed a charge of misconduct and it was one of the worst episodes of my life...and I doubt I'd advise anyone to do it if asked for an opinion. In the end all it did was to label me as a trouble maker. There seems to be a deep societal need to put certain individuals on pedestals and then resist seeing them in a realistic manner, as though we ourselves would be flawed to have been wrong in our judgement. And other factors as well, of course.
BTW, it really took the cake that Jytdog would bring you to ANI for behavior issues. You are probably not familiar with his behavior but I've known him for a long time and he is by far the most abusive editor I've ever met. Again and again I've seen him treat newbies with contempt, seen him ridicule their lack of inexperience, and pretty much be just downright mean. For example see this edit summary [[30]] and when he didn't like the notes left on his talk page he just deleted the entire exchange saying that it made him mad to see it [[31]] Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 21:00, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Your userpage[edit]

I read your userpage just now, and it really made me think. I wrote something on the WP:MED page that was less that courteous, and I hope you understand it wasn't directed at you. This debate has been very taxing, and I've been quite frustrated by some comments that have assumed very bad faith over the inclusions of videos. I hope we can work together in the future, and do so successfully on the Breastfeeding article, among other topics
Maybe there is something to how we as medical editors respond to questions or disputes, but I hope you can understand that we are spread very thin — and that we sometimes do things without discussing them in depth is because there are so many articles to keep track of. There are too few of us to engage in depth in the many issues that arise each day, some of which are very valid, and some which are not. I'm very much in awe of how Doc James manages to keep track of all the articles he does, and would hope you didn't single him out for being so very productive. He really cares deeply about Wikipedia, and lets editing take up so much of his time, and Wikipedia would be much lesser without him. Unfortunately that may mean he feels the strain even more than some others, but I don't think he ever meant to be discourteous. talk 22:49, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Carl Fredrik, Doc James has always been very courteous to me and I am aware of how hard he has worked for Wikipedia. I've also appreciated the fact that in the past he has worked to bar corporate influence in our articles, which by reading my user page you can see is very important to me. Gandydancer (talk) 23:02, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Survey Invite[edit]

I'm working on a study of political motivations and how they affect editing. I'd like to ask you to take a survey. The survey should take no more than 1-2 minutes. Your survey responses will be kept private. Our project is documented at

Survey Link:

I am asking you to participate in this study because you are a frequent editor of pages on Wikipedia that are of political interest. We would like to learn about your experiences in dealing with editors of different political orientations.

Sincere thanks for your help! Porteclefs (talk) 14:09, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Copy and pasting[edit]

In this edit

You copied and pasted text:

"The main causes of newborn deaths are prematurity and low-birth-weight, infections, asphyxia (lack of oxygen at birth) and birth trauma. These causes account for nearly 80% of deaths in this age group."

From here. World Health Organization content is generally fully copyrighted by the World Health Organization. Please be more careful. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 11:15, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

2018 Democratic Republic of the Congo Ebola virus outbreak[edit]

any input is welcomed thanks,--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 19:39, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

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"Very dishonest indeed"[edit]

Your suggestion is absurd and I don't appreciate it. Factchecker_atyourservice 15:35, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Pruitt edits[edit]

Hi, there. You noted that you moved rulemaking text from its location in the Pruitt article, but I don't see to where it was moved. Can you clarify? Thanks. Activist (talk) 07:32, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

I moved it to "PFOS and PFOA study publication withheld", a section I started for info re this issue. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 14:53, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
That's very helpful. Thanks! Activist (talk) 06:36, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

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No offense[edit]

The Sanders stuff just needs to be better sourced. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 00:25, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Robert E. Denton, Jr. (2017). Studies of Communication in the 2016 Presidential Campaign. Lexington Books. pp. 4–. ISBN 978-1-4985-6030-6.
Hans A. Baer (2017). Democratic Eco-Socialism as a Real Utopia: Transitioning to an Alternative World System. Berghahn Books. pp. 261–. ISBN 978-1-78533-696-6. ....--Moxy (talk) 01:16, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
Thanks Moxy. Gandydancer (talk) 01:48, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

'Over the back fence'[edit]

Just got home from a car trip to Savannah GA to pick up my granddaughter from College. Saw you on my watchlist when I got home and thought I might stop for a short chat. All is well---retired since last August---turned 70. Mrs keeps me busy as does WP. Was maintaining Trump's timeline when I left but not a soul has made an entry since I left a week ago or started a new quarter. So... not a single reason for me to even bother with it any more. Did Obama's for eight years with joy... can't say the same for the current resident. Hope all is well with you! TRA! ―Buster7  03:11, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi there my friend, so good to hear from you. Hope you're enjoying time with your granddaughter. Has she picked out a major? I have one granddaughter, Helena Rose. She will be headed for college this fall. It's good to be retired once one gets over the initial strangeness of it. I remember that I sure did understand why so many people just feel lost and worthless when first retired, but it did not take me long to adjust. Re Trump, hardly a day goes by that I'm not just totally amazed about how it can be that he still has so many supporters...and less so that Congress does nothing. I have done a lot of work on his environmental policies article, which has been easy since no one reads it. Face-smile.svg Keep in touchBuster7 . Gandydancer (talk) 00:40, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Life in retirement on WP tends to look like this from time to time, huh? Atsme✍🏻📧 15:03, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Copying within Wikipedia requires attribution[edit]

Information icon Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Breastfeeding into Neonatal infection. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was copied, attribution is not required. — Diannaa ðŸ (talk) 10:53, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Donald Trump[edit]

Hi, Gandy! I appreciate your effort to add a little humor to the talk page, but IMO it's not likely to lead to a resolution of the issue. Would you consider self-reverting it, so that SPECIFICO can respond to my new proposed wording without it being described as a "fight"? Much less a "fight" where everyone is watching and taking sides? Just a request; you can do it or not as you prefer. --MelanieN (talk) 22:47, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Sure I will revert. Sorry but I thought it was funny and not hurtful to anyone or anything. Gandydancer (talk) 22:50, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. It was funny, and it was not hurtful. But I had been trying, in my most recent edit, to move past the arguing and make a suggestion for compromise wording that might end the issue. Unfortunately your edit kind of interrupted that process. --MelanieN (talk) 22:55, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
Well impression of SPECIFICO is that she has a good sense of humor and can easily roll with the punches...oh wait, no pun was intended. Though in the end you are most likely correct since I know from experience that as often as not humor tends to be misunderstood by some editors. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 23:06, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

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Ms. L. and Ms. C.[edit]

Hi Gandy, I've seen your edit on the presentation of the cases (diff) and actually I think that edit splits things up in a way that is not helpful. The nationwide injunction was issued for a case which "started with the filing of a Complaint by Ms. L.", a citizen of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and then "was expanded to include another Plaintiff, Ms. C.", a citizen of Brazil (ref). Now after your edit, the filings of Ms. L. and Ms. C. are in the separate section of the article, "Other challenges on behalf of individuals", which makes it look as if they were not directly related to the nationwide injunction.

I'd like to ask you if you would be willing to move that paragraph back. And thanks by the way for your many beneficial edits to the article so far. --Chris Howard (talk) 17:49, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your kind note. Chris, of late, as happens from time to time, my internet reception has been very much interrupted to the point that I may get only a few minutes a day. In part that happened in this case, though in truth I was not aware that it was an ACLU lawsuit that that eventually led to this new development. But then, though I usually try to be very careful, I was mistaken with no way to fix my error. At any rate, I have noted your outstanding competence and hope that in the future you will correct any of my mistakes immediately and without a thought of hurting my feelings. You are one of our best editors and I know it. Gandydancer (talk) 16:27, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

July 2018[edit]

Information icon Welcome to Wikipedia. We appreciate your contributions, but in one of your recent edits to Pie iron, it appears that you have added original research, which is against Wikipedia's policies. Original research refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and personal experiences—for which no reliable, published sources exist; it also encompasses combining published sources in a way to imply something that none of them explicitly say. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. Please provide sources for the content you are restoring, thus complying with WP:V policy. Kind regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 18:50, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

RfC: Social democracy[edit]

You might be interested in providing your insight at: Talk:Bernie Sanders#RfC: Social democracy. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 19:44, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Please just stop it right now. Most people would realize that as one of the leading Sanders article editors I do watch the page and am well aware of what's going on. I also do not think it is your place to thank the group for good behavior as though you were in charge of our behavior. Nor do I appreciate your constant "thank you" notes - just imagine how bothersome it might be if every other editor were to constantly thank me for my edits on the pages that they watch. Cheers, Gandydancer (talk) 20:37, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

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Slut and Slut-shaming articles[edit]

If interested, I could use your help watching these two articles. Why is seen here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 16:18, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi there Flyer and always grateful that you are speaking up for women. <removed> Gandydancer (talk) 19:14, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
Gandydancer, I hope you don't mind, but I removed part of your remark. That's a living person, and this is a public page. Bishonen | talk 19:21, 8 August 2018 (UTC).
Well you are certainly free to do what you feel you must do and I'm sure that there is some sort of WP guideline to support you. In the meantime, I like Melania, as does my daughter and my granddaughter, (Redacted). Of course, feel free to remove my/our observations per WP guidelines. Gandydancer (talk) 20:05, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

thank you[edit]

[32] this means a lot to me, coming from you, the best medical editor Ive come across . Any help you might be able to give on 2018_Kivu_Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo_Ebola_virus_outbreak, I would appreciate(it doesn't look good there is a military conflict in the same area), thank you very much Gandy--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 22:53, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Well I am far from the best, as we both know, but as for working well together, we did that!, didn't we? As we both know, there is more to editing than getting the facts just right - there is the talent to work well with other editors, and in that aspect you do excel, no question about that. With that accomplished the "facts" will just automatically fall into place. It has been a true pleasure to work with you Ozzie. Hoping that we meet on some article again in the future! Gandydancer (talk) 23:07, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

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This is to introduce you to a new Wikiproject called AfroCine. This new project is dedicated to improving the Wikipedia coverage of the history, works, people, places, events, etc, that are associated with the cinema, theatre and arts of Africa, African countries, the carribbean, and the diaspora. If you would love to be part of this or you're already contributing in this area, kindly list your name as a participant on the project page here.

Furthermore, In the months of October and November, the WikiProject is organizing a global on-wiki contest and edit-a-thon tagged: The Months of African Cinema. If you would love to join us for this exciting event, also list your username as a participant for this event here. In preparation for the contest, please do suggest relevant articles that need to be created or expanded in different countries, during this event!

If you have any questions, complaints, suggestions, etc., please reach out to me personally on my talkpage! Cheers!--Jamie Tubers (talk) 20:50, 5 September 2018 (UTC)


I've finally gotten back to classifying the styles in Leadville, mainly using a real source - Buildings of Colorado by Thomas J. Noel, part of the ever-expanding Buildings of the United States series by the Society of Architectural Historians. I get them when I spot them for cheap second-hand. I did a few interpretations, and many of the commercial buildings are, well, 19th-century commercial style, which has some neoclassical and Italianate influence, spread rather thinly over a blocky brick building. Acroterion (talk) 03:09, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Monsanto Cancer Case RfC - text has changed, please review[edit]

Hi Miss Gandy, please see amended proposed text here and let us know if you still approve, thank you! petrarchan47คุก 05:59, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 20[edit]

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Breastfeeding, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page CDC (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:24, 20 September 2018 (UTC)


Gandy, Thank you for what you have been saying at my talk, and really, wherever you go. Don't feel bad about not contributing at my AE. I felt your support without you saying anything, and I'm not convinced that supportive comments at an AE have much effect (besides making me feel good). I will continue to test whether Wikipedia truly does value neutrality and facts... we shall see. So far, it isn't looking good ;) petrarchan47คุก 17:47, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Well I can't say I'd feel all that sorry to see you banned from those articles anyway since IMO you've just been throwing your pearls to swine - all things considered. Can't I interest you in a little something else my dear? A little politics maybe? Face-smile.svg Gandydancer (talk) 18:45, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
Well, I'm on hiatus from talking about politics for at least the next few years. I wanted to stop by and say that I really appreciate your kind words: word-hugs, I might call them. My reply to you at my talk recently seemed callous I am sure, but that's because I can't be very open right now. A private conversation with some hot chai... in front of a campfire... then I could let loose. But not here, not right now anyway. I'm hoping you'll understand. 🐝 Thank you for being a friend, dear Gandy. petrarchan47คุก 00:29, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Welcome to the Months of African Cinema![edit]

Africa (orthographic projection).svg


The AfroCine Project welcomes you to October, the first out of the two months which has been dedicated to improving contents that centre around the cinema of Africa, the Caribbean, and the diaspora.

This is a global online edit-a-thon, which is happening in at least 5 language editions of Wikipedia, including the English Wikipedia! Join us in this exciting venture, by helping to create or expand articles which are connected to this scope. Also remember to list your name under the participants section, if you haven't done so already.

On English Wikipedia, we would be recognizing Users who are able to achieve the following:

  • Overall winner (1st, 2nd, 3rd places)
  • Country Winners
  • Diversity winner
  • High quality contributors
  • Gender-gap fillers
  • Page improvers
  • Wikidata Translators
For further information about the contest, the recognition categories and how to participate, please visit the contest page here. For further inquiries, please leave comments on the contest talkpage or on the main project talkpage. See you around :).--Jamie Tubers (talk) 22:50, 03 October 2018 (UTC)

Casting aspersions[edit]

Your comment here is casting aspersions on KoA by suggesting that he willfully ignored the existance of the source, rather than simply not knowing that it existed. Please strike and reword your comment and do not suggest that anyone is deliberately ignoring sources again. Comments like that do not help foster calm and sensible discussions. SmartSE (talk) 19:49, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

I chose to keep engagement of the snark to a minimum on the article talk page (it wasn't lost on me), but being here, I will say that you really should know better at this point Gandydancer. You've been repeatedly cautioned about casting aspersions, etc. so it's high time you knock it off. The topic has already been disrupted enough by other editors injecting that kind of stuff. Do take SmartSE's advice. Kingofaces43 (talk) 20:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

SmartSE, thanks for the note. You are correct and I struck my snark. @ KoF, I have not been repeatedly cautioned about casting aspersions. Please be more careful about using language such as "so it's high time you knock it off." Gandydancer (talk) 22:39, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
On the comment, thank you for striking it. You'll do what you do at this point, but you have been cautioned by myself when you've been personalizing disputes on talk pages[33][34] and by others[35] without digging back very far before today. I was quite serious in reminding you to knock it off, so that language was quite appropriate. I won't belabor your talk page anymore on this, but people including myself aren't trying to silence you or others (based on a comment in a previous diff), they just want the behavior issues to stop in the topic. Kingofaces43 (talk) 01:39, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Gandy. I don't know why you suffer these bullying indignities. You should know better than to question an Entomologist and a Biologist. ―Buster7  15:55, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
LOL - I knew he would go looking for times that I have casted aspersions. Did you read his diffs? Oh well it is nice to start my day off with a little humor, all things considered. I miss you my friend. It is good to hear from you. How are you doing? Gandydancer (talk) 17:20, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
I did. Minor jaywalking offenses compared to most of the stuff that goes on around here. My activity has slowed down on WP, just watching my watchlist and managing EotW. Life is good except for all the recent POTUS/SCOTUS stuff. One of my nieces has answered the call and is running for a local political office so helping her is fun. Still filing in at the Library when needed. I Twitter more than before. Hope all is well with you and a hello to Petra if she is watching. ―Buster7  18:41, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Big hugs from me, and yes, I enjoy the daily humor as well. Glad to hear you're doing well, Buster. petrarchan47คุก 21:02, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Pesticide topics[edit]

Commons-emblem-notice.svgThis is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have recently shown interest in genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals and the companies that produce them, broadly construed. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor. 

In addition to the discretionary sanctions described above the Arbitration Committee has also imposed a restriction which states that you cannot make more than one revert on the same page in the same 24 hour period on all pages relating to genetically modified organisms, agricultural biotechnology, or agricultural chemicals, broadly construed and subject to certain exemptions.

Kingofaces43 (talk) 20:40, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Looking up Eric[edit]

Not having anything important to do, I thought I would have a "looksee" as to what the infamous Eric C. was up to. Saw your July/2018 note to him about his semi-retirement and the "C" word. Interesting guy. I forget when (5 or 6 years ago) and where but I was actually in the middle of a raucous week long debate/discussion with many upset editors about Eric and his manners. I kept my head down and most of the flying dinnerware missed me. I wish I could remember where but Eric called some Admin a cunt (Deb?) and I called him on it and we were off to the races. Over the years I learned to appreciate all the quality work he created and learned to ignore his gruffness. ―Buster7  20:27, 15 October 2018 (UTC)


[36] - not how it works. For a BLP you need consensus to INCLUDE not consensus to REMOVE. And there is an RfC which has been linked several times [37] which clearly states that there is no such consensus. Volunteer Marek 02:14, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

You are telling me that a failed vote about moving a section out of one heading (Senate run, in this case) and reposting it with its own heading means it's OK to just delete everything? I'm sure you know more about WP rules than I do but I find that hard to believe.

VM, this article has been a nightmare for me . It was a GA for me along with Binksternet (I think that was 2011) and then the shit hit the fan when she decided to make a Senate run and the nightmare began. Each time she hit the news the smoldering fire reignited. Hoping to try to help you understand I glanced back at the TP archives and tried #6. That was four years into the ongoing ruckus. (I mentioned on the article talk page about how each time she was newsworthy a new onslaught of attempts to show what a liar she was were introduced to the article. In this case it was when she published a book.) I wrote this:

I'd like to repeat what was said above by LK: A persistent campaign by partisans to include every negative thing ever written about a person into the person's biography, regardless of weight, reliability, notability, or BLP issues. This has to stop. I fully agree with this statement. The rather awkward truth about Wikipedia editors is that we have no credentials and yet we can "publish" our views in a widely-read source. By the amount of copy devoted to the Native American incident presently included in Warren's article, about the same amount as devoted to her entire career, one would think that it is a major part of her life. As unknown editors, of unknown political leanings, or any sort of expertise at all, we have no right to allow politics to influence our articles. In Warren's most recent book she does not devote more than a mention of this incident and when I searched for reviews of her book, I did not find reviews that criticized her shocking, just shocking!!!, avoidance of fraud!!!, etc. See, for instance: [1] [2] [3] No mention at all. What we really should be arguing about here is whether or not the incident deserves more than a few lines at most, or even that - certainly not an entire section. Gandydancer (talk) 16:51, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Over the years I have continued to argue for a reduction of coverage in the article but I have slowly come to accept since the controversy has been once again been brought to the forefront by Trump and then her release of the DNA report which many have also seen as evidence that she is announcing a 2020 run, that we need to keep what we had (that you deleted) because it's going to come up again and again (and again) in the news.

My worry is that you and the other new editors that find the heritage info outrageous, which is certainly true, will blow things up and then leave, never to be heard of again. So I am saying that I have always hoped to see the heritage material given only what it deserves, which is not much, but you and the others who feel that way now need to stick around to see that it is supported in the future as she continues with her run for 2020. That's expecting a lot because I know from experience that many editors like to be involved during the exciting part of editing an article and then leave, never again to be heard from again, once things calm down. Gandydancer (talk) 16:12, 23 October 2018 (UTC)


Trick or Treat!!!

Happy Halloween!
Why are demons and ghouls always together?
  • Because demons are a ghoul's best friend.

What happens when you goose a ghost?

  • You get a hand full of sheet.

Atsme✍🏻📧 00:45, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Atsme! Memories, memories... What has been your best costume ever? I've been a nun, a dance hall girl, Miss Piggy, but best of all was when I made (packages of) M&M outfits for my partner and I - I was PLAIN and he was WITH NUTS. The nuns (girl friend and I) were a lot of fun as well as we made sure to smoke a lot of cigarettes and do a lot of drinking for effect. I can still remember how funny it looked to see her twirling away out on the dance floor. Gandydancer (talk) 17:46, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

What fun!! My early years weren’t nearly as much fun but I’ve been trying to make up for it over the past decade or so. 😂💃🧟‍♂️🧟‍♀️🤡👻


Gandydancer, Ive included you as secondary author on West African Ebola virus outbreak, let me know if this is fine, or you don't want to be included(Im asking b/c I don't know if WikiJournal of Medicine Board will ask you) thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:34, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Ozzie, I don't know what you are talking about here, though I'm sure it would be OK with me... Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 16:26, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
[38] there's a part you need to fill--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 16:32, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────┘ Hi, I thought I'd send a couple of bits of info for context. The West African Ebola virus outbreak has been submitted to the WikiJournal of Medicine for external academic peer review (see here). It is analogous to Featured Article nomination, but reviewed by non-wikipedian experts with a focus on content accuracy (more info here). You are acknowledged as a contributor via a hyperlinked "et al" in the author list. Given your significant contribution to the article, if you would also like to be a named author on the author list, simply provide your name (and institution if applicable). Authors listed need to assist in responding to peer reviewer comments and be willing to stand by the content of the article (as per the ICMJE definition). T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 01:18, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Seeking advice, could you spare just a moment?[edit]

Trophy.png Seeking advice, could you spare just a moment?
I did personal research on a particular conspiracy theory and found parts of it to be reality more than theory. I'm aware that personal research is not allowed to be presented here, the issue being i found parts of the conspiracy to be factual while a Wikipedia article exists claiming it to be debunked and is sourced with journalism. The major problem being that it is presented as fact that the conspiracy theory has been debunked, so many readers will take that article as if it's a fact that the conspiracy is just a fabricated story when I, myself know that to be false. It's basing its facts off of media, journalism, which is not a factual source of information. How you can cite Washington Journal in an encyclopedia is beyond me, that is a media outlet, not a source for factual information. I'm new here and autistic, i learn from my mistakes, the problem is you're only allowed so many here, then you can be blocked. I wish the article could be removed or at least make the reader aware that the debunking is based on journalism and not factual sources of information. I find it to be offensive because i personally found a lot of information to be true, none of it is even mentioned in the so called debunking. I'm unsure what to do, but if i make one more error trying to edit the article i will have a block placed on me. Any advice you could offer? Thank you for your time. Crimadella (talk) 20:54, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Spliting discussion for Brett Kavanaugh Supreme Court nomination[edit]


An article that you have been involved with (Brett Kavanaugh Supreme Court nomination) has content that is proposed to be removed and move to another article (Brett Kavanaugh sexual assault allegations). If you are interested, please visit the discussion at the article's talk page. Thank you. Quidster4040 (talk) 23:18, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

A glass of whiskey for you![edit]

Whiskyhogmanay2010.jpg Thanks for the excellent work on the World Patent Marketing article! Edcolins (talk) 16:38, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Ed, but you mean that's all I get is a BROWNIE??? I am thinking that a nice glass of whiskey would be better, all things considered. In truth, working on that article has been a real eye-opener for me. In my life I have run across only one "bad person". That was many years ago in rural Minnesota when, during a blizzard, a stranger came to my door asking to borrow our snow shovel to dig himself out of a drift just down the road. He did not return my shovel and I always remembered that.

So as the years moved along I did hear about a lot of bad things, mostly done by politicians or large corporations. The need for power and/or money seems to be built right into some people's genes. I have contributed to some of their Wikipedia articles.

As I read everything I could find on this scam, I began to feel like I knew the company and I knew the people that had been scammed. I feel bad for those people--it's not like they only just lost their old snow shovel. And as for the CEO (and Whitaker) what are they doing free to continue on with their scams? How ironic that one of the very people on their board has made a name for himself as one that has exposed white-collar crime. All this said, I appreciate your brownie because no other editors have joined in and I have not been sure if I was doing OK. Thanks. Gandydancer (talk) 16:29, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Here is the well-deserved glass of whiskey! Thanks again! --Edcolins (talk) 19:51, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
And a toe-tapping song to go with it. Atsme✍🏻📧 21:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
A very informative and timely article. My oldest son is a reputable patent attorney so I read it with great interest. Thanks, Gandy, for the always good work. ―Buster7  02:15, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I learned a lot reading that article. My oldest son had a bad experience with an invention promotion company as a teenager. Fortunately, they quickly figured out that he had no money of significance, and blew him off without conning him out of any money. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:02, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Old friends and new - how nice to all be gathered together. We should have a party. Listen to Willie Nelson, drink whiskey, and play poker perhaps. But right now I'm busy getting ready with the green bean casserole, the sweet potatoes with marshmallows on top, Martha Stewart's Parker House rolls, and Minnesota wild rice. What are your favorites? Gandydancer (talk) 17:33, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
Aw shucks! You forgot to give us your address.💃 Atsme✍🏻📧 20:41, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter message[edit]

Scale of justice 2.svgHello, Gandydancer. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

A request[edit]

Please go easy on BullRangifer for a while. He has gone through a major catastrophe in his life, and I am fully aware of the details. Thank you. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:46, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

I just left a note on his talk page and now I come here to read this. I hope that the "frivolity" of my note was not inappropriate. I did certainly mean every word of it. Let me know, please... Gandydancer (talk) 16:54, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

I think that we are all good, at least here on Wikipedia. Thank you. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 17:23, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Time for stretchy pants[edit]

Whad'ya call a turkey on the run?
Fast food.

Wishing You A Happy Turkey Day!
Thanksgiving chuckles...

What smells best at a Thanksgiving dinner?
Your nose.
What did the turkey say to the computer?
Google, google, google.

😊🦃 Atsme✍🏻📧 22:47, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

About those editors...[edit]

Gandydancer, you don't have email enabled, and so you obviously are not one of the editors who told me via email that discussion about me is currently going on at Curly Turkey's talk page and that Hijiri88 is blaming me for things I shouldn't be blamed for and is misrepresenting matters as usual. I thank you for this, but it is not worth it. Hijiri88 will twist, twist and twist things and drag you down. With this edit, he says "was putting herself in some ugly company." He also says, "She actually monitored my contribs closely enough to know that I had opened a discussion of 'sharing continuity' in MCU films and TV series, and accordingly pinged me into a largely unrelated discussion that looked superficially similar, and given her apparent dislike for me this action is extremely difficult to take in good faith."

This is completely false. As this edit shows, I was only aware of Hijiri88 having had that discussion because the matter was being discussed at MOS:FILM and MOS:TV at the time, and the pages are on my watchlist. It is well known by editors there that I commonly contribute to those pages.

Both Curly Turkey and Hijiri88 are saying that I'm looking for a fight, but I said that Curly Turkey was looking for a fight in the argument we had at MOS, and now he's turning my statement back on me. Furthermore, I've never sought to stay around someone I've been in a very heated disagreement with or someone who has stalked me. I would not, for example, immediately go to the Wikipedia articles they edit and claim that I'm simply copyediting and that there is no annoyance intended. Hijiri88 acts as though every interaction I have with him is about our past issues. It isn't. My pinging him to the Arrowverse discussion was because I was over our past issues. He keeps bringing them up, however. And Hijiri88's user page, which currently violates WP:POLEMIC (even though he thinks it doesn't because it doesn't mention names), is exactly what I mean about him. Even now, he is unable to stop focusing on me and spewing nonsense. If he comes to this talk page trying to challenge my post to you, I suggest you revert him. I also suggest you stay clear of him. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:26, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Notice of Fringe Theories Noticeboard discussion[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.--Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 18:23, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

I made my day to have such a kind compliment appear after my Signpost article, especially by you Gandydancer. I would like to explain myself a bit-it will give you an idea of how my version of humour is created. Not only is writing articles, creating content about women, and fooling around on the Signpost a hobby of mind, but I like to lurk on commons and find the funny images there (Do a search on commons using "mud wrestling"). I originally was going to improve the article Carotene but alas, for reasons known to my fans, I am not allowed to contribute to that article. Anyway, my habit of commons-lurking led to the discovery of these carrot images. And so that is where my inspiration came from. I happened upon the category Carrots and images during my commons-surfing and came up with my most ridiculous interpretations of the images. To me, there was no other way to make sense of the images except to pull them all together into a plot in which I could make sense of them and create a story line. Again, I am honored to have brought a giggle to your life. The Very Best of Regards, Best Regards, Barbara ✐✉ 9:52 am, Today (UTC−5)

Thanks, but remember to purge the cache[edit]

Thanks for your amusing comment at Signpost, Gandydancer. But, for future reference, it wasn't appearing at Signpost proper until I purged the cache. There's a note and link at the top of the Signpost Humor Comments section telling you how to do this. Regards. Tlhslobus (talk) 15:28, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. So exciting--she has won an award for her article!!! (BTW, please get rid of that 100px note in the award that I posted on her talk page if you know how--my skills are very limited...) Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 17:22, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
Done. I've also set the size to 220px. Please feel free to change it there if you wish. Tlhslobus (talk) 18:33, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Peace Dove Christmas[edit]

Peace dove.svg
Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, peoples rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension.
Happy Holidays.―Buster7  22:12, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Merry Christmas[edit]

--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:31, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

It's that time again!!![edit]

Hummingbird Christmas 2018.jpg

Happy Holidays!
Wishing you much joy & happiness now and every year!!
Merry Christmas - Happy Hanukkah‼️

  • When does New Year’s Day come before Christmas Day?
Every year!
  • What do you call a bankrupt Santa?
Saint Nickel-less.

🔔🎁⛄️🎅🏻Atsme✍🏻📧 00:17, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Hollywood Reporter not a RS?[edit]

Hi GandyDancer. I noticed your removal of my edit on the Michael Moore page of a quote from The Hollywood Reporter. Would it therefore be appropriate to also remove this quote from THR on the page for Moore's new film? Thank you for your help. JBlackCoffee52 (talk) 02:22, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

No, it seems appropriate for a film review (but not a BLP). Gandydancer (talk) 21:05, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Merry Merry[edit]

Christmas tableau.jpg Happy Christmas!
Hello Gandydancer,
Early in A Child's Christmas in Wales the young Dylan and his friend Jim Prothero witness smoke pouring from Jim's home. After the conflagration has been extinguished Dylan writes that

Nobody could have had a noisier Christmas Eve. And when the firemen turned off the hose and were standing in the wet, smoky room, Jim's Aunt, Miss. Prothero, came downstairs and peered in at them. Jim and I waited, very quietly, to hear what she would say to them. She said the right thing, always. She looked at the three tall firemen in their shining helmets, standing among the smoke and cinders and dissolving snowballs, and she said, "Would you like anything to read?"

My thanks to you for your efforts to keep the 'pedia readable in case the firemen chose one of our articles :-) Best wishes to you and yours and happy editing in 2019. MarnetteD|Talk 20:24, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year[edit]

Season's Greetings, Christmas Card from 320 Ranch.jpg
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

Hi Gandydancer, I wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas
and a very Happy and Prosperous New Year,
Thanks for all your help and thanks for all your contributions to the 'pedia,

   â€“Davey2010 Merry Christmas / Happy New Year 14:35, 23 December 2018 (UTC)


2018 XMAS.pdf
FWiW Bzuk (talk) 16:24, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Adding options to existing RfC[edit]

Hello Gandydancer - you are a very experienced editor here at WP and I have a situation that I believe you would be a fantastic resource for me to obtain some counsel. However, before just tossing it up and clogging your Talk page, I wanted to first ask if you are OK with me this or if you'd rather me go a different route. If the former, I will provide more details. Thanks. --- VeritasS (talk) 02:21, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh gawd, I have seen so many RfCs become just horribly complex and hard to understand even for a person that has an interest in the article. It is nothing short of a modern day miracle that they generally turn out OK. I became involved in the controversy unknowingly when I added his words in a quote--I was not aware of the ongoing talk page discussion. VeritasS, I don't know your position but I'll tell you mine. I feel pretty strongly about this issue because I am a nurse and I have seen the heartbreak of parents when a severely deformed baby, either nonviable or perhaps viable for a short time, baby is born. I'm not talking about Down syndrome or even much worse--I'm talking about severe and you don't even want to know what these infants look like. To have a parent going through that heartbreak and then have a bunch of politicians tell them what should be done is just goddamn disgusting. That's what I think and that is what most physicians and nurses think. As for the RfC, I have no idea about what to do. You might try asking someone like user:Drmies that knows more about these things. Gandydancer (talk) 02:40, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Hey there - thanks for the feedback...and yeah, the abortion issue is just not remotely an easy one on any front and I definitely agree that with any issue, when gov't gets involved, it is necessary for it to find places to dissect one way or the other. That's just the way gov't is designed to work. And as I'm sure you'd also agree, life isn't that cut-and-dry...which is why gov't should be involved with things like this only in very narrow situations - at least that's MHO. Anywhoo, my initial reason for reaching out was more to do with process and specifically one editor driving forward with only their set of desired changes and excluding all others. If you want more detail, let me know - I have my question well-formed and fairly terse - Thanks. --- VeritasS (talk) 03:17, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

  • Are y'all talking about this, Talk:Ralph_Northam#Treatment_of_Northam's_recent_comments_on_third-trimester_abortion/non-viable_births? Because that's a train wreck already. Gandydancer, today I read the account of an Alabama woman--raped at 17, and at 18 she was the mother of a baby whose brain didn't develop inside the right place or something like that. It died, mercifully, after a year; it was never able to live in any kind of normal way and suffered illness after illness. Much respect and love to all the mothers and the nurses and the doctors and the caretakers. VeritasS, I hope that when my time comes, and if at that time my own life is unbearable to me, "government" will allow me to choose my own way out. Drmies (talk) 03:30, 15 February 2019 (UTC)


Means (in essence) that we do not include every minor and trivial, factoid we can find. We only include important encyclopedic information.Slatersteven (talk) 09:29, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the help Slatersteven. TFD gave good information as well:
"Since Congress votes on 5,000 bills each year, a secondary source is required to establish the significance of each vote and why a member voted for or against it. Adding these votes across a range of congressmen is spamming and I suggest you bring this to ANI if the editor does not change." Gandydancer (talk) 20:06, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
For your constant work on AOC's page puggo 19:30, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Keith Ellison[edit]

This, given your edit summary, is blatant WP:IDONTLIKEIT removal of sourced material. The subject's essays on Farrakhan received significant secondary coverage, you personally believing this not to be significant is not a justification for purging the information from the page. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 17:44, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Feedback on Environmental Policy of the Trump Administration[edit]

Hi, thank you for the helpful feedback. I'm new to this and your comment was very constructive! Lsilvaal (talk) 06:16, 6 March 2019 (UTC)lsilvaal

Thank you[edit]

Hello, Gandy:

You recently responded to Bradv here. I wanted to thank you for your honesty. I truly appreciate it. I know we are not supposed to add thank-you-only comments to talk pages, so I figured I would write my thanks here. (I would have done it by email but (1) I don't know if you allow other users to email you and (2) I don't know how to check whether you allow other users to email you.) Nevertheless, thank you, Gandy. HoldingAces (talk) 16:32, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

in place of a templated warning[edit]

Your edit to Mike Pompeo‎ seems to ignore WP:BRD. I have initiated discussion, so you might revert your edit. (I am not watching this page, so please ping me if you want my attention.) Chris Troutman (talk) 16:35, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Talk:Political positions of Bernie Sanders[edit]

Hi Gandydancer, Your edit at Talk:Political positions of Bernie Sanders#Liberty Union came out a bit garbled. Perhaps you could see whether it fully represents what you meant to say. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 16:17, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

OK User:HopsonRoad I've had just about enough of you. I've been here for more than 12 years and I've never asked anyone to stay off my user page. I like to enjoy my time here and I don't want to see you on this page ever again. Cheers, Gandydancer (talk) 01:30, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
I'm sorry to have offended, Gandydancer. There was a stray "(edit conflict)" and "Your tex" that resulted from your edit. I didn't feel that it was right for me to clean it up, so I contacted you here. I had thought that this was an act of courtesy. Sincerely, HopsonRoad (talk) 01:39, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Melania Trump[edit]

I'm confused by your revert on Melania Trump. All coverage is from notable subjects satirizing Trump, and covered in RS. Is there a reason you don't think an Emmy-winning show (RuPaul's Drag Race) is notable? Or rapper T.I., which got a response from the Whitehouse? Or Randy Rainbow? Note only people and shows that are notable by WP standards have been added. --Kbabej (talk) 02:26, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

My mistake, and I apologize. Please see: Talk:Melania_Trump#Revert. Any thoughts? --Kbabej (talk) 02:33, 26 March 2019 (UTC)


An exercise in avoiding the pricks.Atsme Talk 📧 23:28, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

This post had nothing to do with insulting SV. Every time I've mentioned her over the years its always with the highest respect: "done so much for the encylopedia" "most responsible for making Wikipedia such a reliable reference source" "single individual most responsible for creating policy back in the early years when it was desperately needed"

The attacking editor's made all kinds of nasty remarks about me on another admin board. I didn't take them seriously, and I don't understand why someone who's done > 1000x more than me would either. i.e. I was making a similar point to GRuban.

Just as I don't understand why SV feels hurt it doesnt mean I in any way question the validity of her emotion, and obviously I think she should receive an apology.

Now onto the honesty point. If King sees what's wrong with his allegations, obviously he'll say so. That's both best for him tactically & would be the best way to undo the hurt. If King doesn't see the error, & doesn't retract, the risk is it could spark a long discussion, with all sorts of potentially drama inducing diffs being dug up. Having had extensive dealings with him these past few months, while he's obviously very high IQ, on certain issues he seems to take an awfully long time to see what's obvious to others.

It's common in many circles for people to recognise that the -ves of a position outweigh it's +ves. And that trying to work out if the position is truly justified may be more trouble than it's worth. So they withdraw the position anyway. This has nothing to do with dishonesty. Hope that makes sense? FeydHuxtable (talk) 16:04, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

It's so nice to see two old friends sitting 'round the kitchen table discussing how to keep the Peace in WikiWorld. ―Buster7  17:02, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
It's reassuring to know they're a friend of yours Buster. FeydHuxtable (talk) 17:34, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
Hi Buster, I think of you often and hope all is well. We need to get Petra to join us for some spring bird talk. Feydhuxtable, I doubt that Slim feels hurt as much as being furious. I know I would be, even considering the source of the insults. Gandydancer (talk) 01:18, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
I've come to see I've probably been excessively tolerant & I'll likely be more supportive of sanctions if their aggression starts up again - thanks for helping me see this. (I did already say to Lourdes I thought their indeff warning was fully justified). Starting in late spring, the birds used to sing us the most amazing dawn chorus. Even to recollect it seems therapeutic, it could be like a magical wall of sound. It's silent spring now at least in parts of the UK, and bug decline is likely the primary cause.
On the bright side, until a couple of months back, K seems to have enjoyed 4+year run where his aggression was successful, getting even good mainstream scientists sanctioned. At least that runs came to an end; its to be hoped they'll now truly FOC, where they can be most valuable. With the bug thing, significant efforts to arrest the decline have already been launched over the past couple of years, and these will only intensify. You must have noticed the new levels of consciousness among young people exemplified by the Greta Thunberg movement. The world wide congress of cities is another +ve global movement where there's increasing talk of implementing green corridors. And the UN is planning to take efforts to halt diversity loss to a whole new level over the next year or two. Nature can rapidly heal herself when given a chance, and there's real hope the dawn chorus might soon return to the places that have lost it. FeydHuxtable (talk) 07:22, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

User:FeydHuxtable, you are more hopeful than I am. I am a positive person by nature and I've always been that way, but when our country elected Donald Trump I've had to admit that as a nation we are in great peril. When we are given only 12 years to get our act together I can't see it happening. Yes we have a few young politicians and activists but when they are faced with corporate power it does not look very hopeful. Look at Monsanto's ability to control our Environmental Protection Agency, for example, and that was even before Trump's election. Read our Environmental policy of the Donald Trump administration and weep. And when I see that same mentality using every trick in the book to bias our encyclopedia to reflect the corporate viewpoint, that should make anyone's blood run cold. I'm sounding perhaps pretty dramatic here but I do feel very strongly about these issues. Thanks for your good work on the bug decline article. This may be one of the most important articles in our book and it's well worth the time spent to get it fair and unbiased. Gandydancer (talk) 14:04, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Agree there is great danger, and not just for the US, but the whole world. Though "where there is peril that which shall save us also grows", such as the charisma of young operators like AOC. It seems to me right's success in recent years has been largely due to better cooperation from the different factions. If different types of progressives can set aside their differences and work together with out undermining each other, much harm can be healed. Especially if as well as respecting each other, we're also respectful to the vast majority of right wing voters, who agree with many of our goals and are basically decent people.
Also agree we have a corporate POV issue here on Wikipedia. When I saw King flagging that he was going to launch another of his time wasting drama board attacks on me, I tried to preempt by requesting an arb case which could have addressed the wider issue as well as helping with the Decline article. Sadly there was no community desire to investigate the general problem of corp POV pushing. Probably that was wise as it could be a tough issue. But with only 2nd rate PR types now working for denialists & the worst corps, the community should be able to sort the issue out eventually. In the specific case of Insect Decline, Im 99.9% sure the problematic editor has good faith reasons and isn't acting as a shill. Especially in the early stages of the dispute, they seemed to be taking a much more extreme line than the likes of Monsanto. While biotech corps might be heavily engaged in distorting science when that helps their interests, Id guess most execs who work there want to make a positive difference and don't support Denialism.
Thanks for your own good work on the Donald's environmental policy article, and it was great to read all the spring bird talk below.FeydHuxtable (talk) 10:27, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Spring bird talk[edit]

Hi there Gandy, Buster and Feyd ~ it's so nice to be invited to join in Bird Talk 2019 (although Feyd has some sad news). I haven't seen dragonflies for the past 4 years. Their brilliant blue bodies used to be a favorite sight here every Spring, living so near a large river, however we do still enjoy a few Cardinals and the songs of other feathered locals. I certainly don't take them for granted, and in fact, I normally turn off all other sounds when one of them starts singing in order to fully enjoy the performance. Now I'll be sure to enjoy even more intensely in honor of Feyd.

Decorah "Dad", RIP

The Decorah Eagles just had their first hatch of the year, you can watch them here. I need to update the WP page desperately, but nature has been cruel and it's very difficult to document. Most electrical poles in the area are not safe, and the norm has been that of the 3 juveniles born each Spring, 2 will die within months of learning to fly, by electrocution. The founder of the Raptor Research Project would normally be the one to find them at the bottom of the poles. Finally one year, Bob died too. Heart attack. He was young. I think it was heartbreak. It was all a bit too much for me so I walked away for a while, but this year tuned back in only to find that the male eagle disappeared during a snowstorm last Spring. That was devastating news for many, but over the summer Mamma Decorah had her pick between 3 strapping suitors, and made a good choice. I somewhat envy the lack of emotion in the animal world, ya know? Warm Spring wishes to you all, petrarchan47คุก 03:11, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

- Smerinthus jamaicensis – Twin-spotted Sphinx Moth

So good to hear from you Petra! I was hoping to hear how the Decorah eagles were doing. OK, bug talk... I was lucky enough to witness dragonflies coming out of the lake one year. I was at our cabin in Wisconsin and they all started climbing out of the water in the vegetation at the edge of the lake...hundreds of them! They then flew up and settled on the bushes while their wings dried out. If you've ever tried to catch one, you know how hard it is - I read somewhere they have four eyes and I believe it. But at that time I could have caught all I wanted as they did not fly away. Speaking of catching bugs, I used to have a pretty nice collection of moths. I'd leave the porch light on and wait. Of course I'd never do that anymore since they have become so rare. One of my favorite memories is watching the Twin-Spotted Sphinx slowly raise their over-wings to show the owl eyes on their under-wings when I gently tapped the screen. Birds? No spring birds here yet - we had several inches of snow today. The pussy willows are out but that's it. Looking forward to spring stories from all of you! Gandydancer (talk) 04:04, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

This is NOT Big Boy but a reasonable facsimile

Best to my favorite Wikipedians! Spring is time for rejuvenation, renewal, resurrection and regrowth... at least that's what the WP article says! Early garden work has started in the front of my building. Last week I raked and bagged all of last years leaves that I use as a protective frost layer over the various perennials. Crocuses and Tulips and Daffodils have emerged. I always wait for the first Robin to appear because one (I'm assuming its the same one) has been a yearly visitor that joins me in my work. I like to get down on my knees with the plants and the grass and work with my hands removing weeds and grass clumps, etc. We've had nice whether for a while:Today it was 70+ in Chicago. The Robin (I call him Big Boy) sits nearby with his eye on me and when I uncover a worm or a beetle grub he swoops in (within arms reach) and has a feast. The fact that he gets so close is endearing. I think he trusts me. His mate is not so brave. He is a constant visitor along with a nesting Cardinal and mate and a bevy of sparrows in the cedar bushes. From across the street I've started to hear a bird whose call I don't recognize. Must be a transient just passing thru on his way South. I've taken time to scout for him (his call is loud and full throated) but I have yet to make a sighting. ―Buster7  05:47, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

American goldfinch feasting on the seeds of purple thistle


Sooooo nice to catch up with you both, it's been far too long. A heart ache I didn't know I had was healed by reading your words today. Buster, I am just delighted to hear of your Robin friend and the delicious meals you provide. I wonder if you can upload a picture of your springing Spring flowers? I live in a concrete jungle and can barely remember what they look like, though I remember them as magical.
Gandy! I too was lucky enough to have a Wisconsin cabin in my youth. Sugar Camp Lake, near Rhinelander. We usually visited in July because it was too cold to play in the water before that. Needless (and sad) to say - I missed the great Dragonfly Emergence. But here in the city, they would come up from the river (10 blocks away) and attach themselves to my screen to molt. Not just one or two, there was an abundance of them. I was in awe of their colors, sparkle and sweetness. (Yes there are sweet insects, and then there are... DUN DUN DUN.. fucking Preying Mantises which SHOULD NOT exist under ANY circumstances in a fair and just universe.) petrarchan47คุก 02:36, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

To Mantis or not to Mantis[edit]

Petra! How can you say that! I fucking love Preying Mantises and have been lucky enough to have seen two different kinds: the walking stick and the one that looks like green leaves. (Oh wait Petra - we have to stop talking like this - you know that Buster hates it when we swear.) Maybe you'd like the Orchid Mantis? [39] Petra, do you remember that you were the one who managed to find all the photos for the BP spill article? Well, I was watching a doc the other night about a group of volunteers who used kites and balloons to photograph the spill because, as you remember, the press was not allowed (by the Coast Guard and BP reps) to take photos. Anyway, they were so happy and proud saying they knew they'd really attained the ultimate when one of their photos was "prominently published at the Wikipedia article". It just makes me chuckle because I know that they think the article was written by some sort of experts when actually it was just people like you and me. (Which is not to say that we did not all become pretty knowledgeable when all was said and done.) Buster, did you work on that article with us? Gandydancer (talk) 03:11, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes I did. In fact it was six/seven years ago so I'm not surprised you forgot. Your question caused me to search for when I got involved in the BP article and, in doing that, I found a lot of other memories around that same time. I remember how we had to fight for every breath of fresh truthful air in the BP and peripheral articles. I remembered convincing Petra not to retire. I remembered that I spent hours and hours keeping User:Arturo at BP in check and preventing "straight form Corporate-type" edits to the BP article and elsewhere. I remembered my unsuccessful RfA and the wonderful words of support from you and many others. I said this four years ago and it still rings true...."I feel so much better knowing you are both here, somewhere, anywhere, editing Wikipedia". ―Buster7  19:38, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
That RfA was so hard to witness, Buster. You are such a dear soul. You do make this place brighter by your presence. We don't deserve you, but I'm so glad you're here. petrarchan47คุก 15:37, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
Ditto to what Petra said... Gandydancer (talk) 16:57, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
Me 3!!! Atsme Talk 📧 23:32, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Gandy, that just warms my heart that someone was happy to have their work featured in our article. And proud they should be.

Ok, I have just fallen in love with the orchid Preying Mantis. I cannot believe you've done this to me. [Never mind. Just watched the whole video and am thoroughly grossed out] But in my defense, my experiences with Mantis' are gruesome and I have very good reason for my earlier remarks. We have ugly brown ones where I live, except for the Japanese variety which were exported here and have no predators. They are decimating the butterfly population. Here, see? They hide where butterflies like to feast, and jump/stretch to capture and eat them before the butterflies have any idea they are in danger. My first experience watching a Mantis for any length of time chills me to this day. They are just so good at killing. This one grabbed a roach and tore it apart with its mouth, guts spilling everywhere. Fucking thing gave no shits, didn't even wipe his damn chin. The final straw was a few years ago (when we used to have butterflies)... I saw gorgeous butterfly wings flailing about in one of the planters on my windowsill. The wings looked like they belonged to some sort of Rainforest butterfly - very large, with white, blue and some colorful dots. When I moved a few plants to get a closer look, I found one of the Japanese Mantis' unceremoniously eviscerating this gorgeous, rare creature.
And one more thing, how does any insect have the right to crane its fucking neck to look RIGHT INTO YOUR EYES? How smart are they? It isn't right. They know too much. Dangit. They are quite obviously from another planet and really should return. I'm creeped out even typing these words. (But that sweet lil pink orchid one can stay.) petrarchan47คุก 03:46, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
Oh, I just read a bit of the link above and found - these are not Japanese but Chinese, and are indeed nothing but destructive:
It's not just the butterfly bush, it is any flowering plant. Those huge green mantis are Chinese mantids. I caught one on my Pineapple Sage (hummer food). The huge ones can catch juvenile hummingbirds. I leave all the native mantids alone. They don't do much harm. The Chinese Mantids even eat the native mantids.
I carry a fanny pack with a large pair of scissors out to the garden. As far as I am concerned, they are exotics and need to go.
Nature speaks! Can you read sign language? Atsme Talk 📧 23:37, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Here is a link that might be useful: Tenodera sinensis sinensis - Chinese Mantid petrarchan47คุก 03:56, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
And finally, there's this. Sorry it had to come to this, but RS is on my side here. petrarchan47คุก 04:13, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
Well now that is just pure unadulterated evil. You were right all along Petra. Gandydancer (talk) 04:25, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
I've missed you. It is good to have a little fun again. You can be sure that if we said this stuff anywhere else someone would think we were serious and try to educate us. Gandydancer (talk) 23:24, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
I realized after writing the above that I had forgotten to mention "evil". You get it. But I fear the cussing, however justified here, may have been too much for our Buster...
Well, at least I'll have to only say about three Hail Marys for the cussing I did but you will need to say a whole Rosary. Gandydancer (talk) 16:32, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
No kidding! (But I was thoroughly justified.) petrarchan47คุก 21:20, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

😍 I've missed you too, and the lightheartedness that was our normal experience prior to be stalked by WP versions of the Chinese Mantis. And I will never forget the attempt you made to wipe up the mess of my spilled guts after i was eviscerated by them. You gave it your all, but I was shaken to the core, and went numb. It's not the same now, there is no feeling safe once you've experienced an injustice at the hands of authority like that. petrarchan47คุก 15:37, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
You write very well. You should write an article and submit it at a few places to see what happens... Gandydancer (talk) 16:32, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
Gandy, you've said that before and it floored me the first time. I don't understand what you mean, but thank you very much for the compliment. I feel the sincerity behind it. petrarchan47คุก 21:20, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
Petra, looking at this old page I don't remember how it was that you came to be banned from GMOs - the vote seems to be six against with only three yes votes for banning. Gandydancer (talk) 17:11, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
Gandy, I've had your talk page on my watchlist ever since we interacted on ReZpect our Water. Petra, I think there's more than just deserved flattery/praise behind Gandydancer's comments. Thanks for speaking up in a space place. ~ 🐝 ~ SashiRolls t · c 18:54, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
Well, SashiRolls, I'm not sure there is a safe space here once you've become targeted. I've had comments from this page used against me in WP's courts. But I wanted to say thank you for being here, I am a huge new fan of yours. For some reason, I googled my username a few nights ago and found a thread off-site where you mention me (in reference to being hounded). I'm so used to being attacked here that the slightest bit of friendliness or support (or even a neutral mention sans nastiness) is extremely welcomed and appreciated. I hope your efforts here are successful! (PS, that bee emoticon is my favorite one!)
Miss Gandy, as you may recall I can't speak about the topic, so can't speak about the ban either, to my knowledge. But you can look up my name at the AE noticeboard (link is at the top of the old version of my talk page). The first rule of the topic ban club: don't talk about the topic ban. Big hug, petrarchan47คุก 02:07, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
Oh sweetie, I read it and is all so sad to remember. Of course not sad about the Monsanto articles -- people are smart enough to smell a rat and not have trust in our Monsanto articles anyway -- but sad about the culture of this place. Here we are facing always the perils of corporate article bias/takeover and we are not allowed to make even a hint of a suggestion about it. Here we have proof positive -- thanks to the information release gift due to the ongoing lawsuits -- that Monsanto has corrupted our EPA and the EU agencies as well, and can anyone believe for one minute that they do not have their eyes on how to whitewash their WP articles? And you can't even reply to anything I say in this note... One secret is JUST CALL IT PSEUDOSCIENCE if you want WP to say its bad, or wrong, or such. (Though this was tried at the bug article mentioned above and did not work... Face-smile.svg. It was refreshing and did give me some hope though unfortunately we don't have that caliber of editors at very many of our difficult nature/ag articles.) Gandydancer (talk) 02:09, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Sashi, so nice to hear from you! It was good to work with you on that article, especially at the end where most editors lose interest and leave. Remember how we were told about how biased the article was and how it totally sucked when someone suggested it for WP News? I had a similar experience at the Trump zero tolerance article. It was suggested as a Did You Know and the editors there just made fun of it and the editors that wrote it. What have you been up to of late? Gandydancer (talk) 02:44, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Protest pages, still. I've made the mistake of following some of the big movements too closely and so the YVM page for example ended up with its timeline amputated (so there's YVM, Women in YVM, Timeline of YVM, etc.). Comparing the French & English version of the 2019 Algerian protests; the problem is the same. I get lost in timelines. Regarding ITN, I was amused to see only the Mueller Report in ongoing there the other day, although I assume by now they've gotten Venezuela back onto the page. I haven't seen any stories about Monsanto there lately. The Sudanese uprising made it to ongoing for a few days, till the beans were counted, then it was off (so I took ITN off of my watchlist, too). I wasn't too sure about investing energy here, frankly, after the 1 May harrass-marketing, but then the Algerians got one of their wishes yesterday. The largest social movements on the planet have been mentioned scarcely more than the boat races in the past months. I can only presume it's because of the crap writing. Oh well, better to have tried and failed, I suppose, than never to have tried. ^^ SashiRolls t · c 20:25, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Well SashiRolls that's a pretty impressive list there. As the years have gone by I've become more and more unwilling to work on disruptive articles. I had hoped to work on the Monsanto articles but I've had about enough and expect to leave soon. At first it was a challenge and fun but now that it has gotten to be petty and spiteful I don't want to be around that sort of atmosphere. Gandydancer (talk) 20:57, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Sorry about my contribution to that. I should have known better, but it does seem like an entry about a commercial product should be treated as a page about a product, rather than as some sort of inner-kabbalah chemical mystery. I appreciate the references you (and Trypto & SmartSE)'ve brought, I've learned a lot. SashiRolls t · c 21:28, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Well fuckity fuck[edit]
Well, so much for the tea-toter. 8) Atsme Talk 📧 16:34, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Just trying to get Buster7 to forgive me... petrarchan47คุก 03:37, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

A rat in a city street
Thanks Petra! Golly gee, I wondered why I was so much smarter than a whole shitload of people and now I fucking know why. Say Petra, speaking of smart stuff (and not knowing exactly which articles you watch), someone sure had a miraculous come to Jesus moment, didn't they? Do you (like me) smell a rat? Gandydancer (talk) 15:25, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Gandy, there were only 2 options: leave WP because as truth comes out, one's position based on years' worth of editing will be revealed to all as the wrong one; or, suddenly change positions and seem impressive to current onlookers, effectively covering tracks in an atmosphere where almost no one takes the time to do true research into the facts (editing histories). It seems the latter option was considered best, likely due to an enormous ego fed by the culture here, food not as easy to come by in the real world. petrarchan47คุก 17:42, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Yup, that is exactly what I'm thinking. I will say this Petra, as troubling as this behavior is, it has reached a level of a really funny SNL skit from back when SNL used to be funny. Or like watching it play out on the Colbert show. So at least, it is enjoyable. Face-smile.svg Gandydancer (talk) 03:41, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Duplicity masquerading as integrity is indeed hilarious to watch, especially when coupled with a complete lack of self-awareness and introspection. When I stop laughing is the moment my eyes fall upon the word "encyclopedia" atop every page here, sometimes carrying Orwellian implications. That word used to be sacred; an encyclopedia was a safe place where unadulterated truth awaited the curious. Now it has become as useless and silly as the word "news" since the Fairness Doctrine was abolished and "infotainment" became the norm.
Switching gears, it seems everyone agrees SNL is a joke now, and not in the way they intend. Quite frankly, sophomoric Trump jokes (and is there any other type? "ORANGE MAN BAAAAAD!") stopped being funny in early 2016, and I've had to end my cable subscription in order to escape the inanity. I do still watch stuff though, and recently discovered a really funny show produced by Lorne Michaels: Detroiters. You might enjoy it too. It's from Comedy Central. Let me know if you have trouble finding it.
Happy Mother's Day to you, my heroes. XXXOOOOOO petrarchan47คุก 21:48, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
💃 Motherhood - a time for celebration. TY Petrar! Atsme Talk 📧 00:41, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

My daughters: [40] Gandydancer (talk) 00:21, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Your glowing daughters' smiles speak volumes about their mother :) petrarchan47คุก 03:33, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
The Plot Thickens[edit]
Tangled spider web

"O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive!" Face-smile.svg Gandydancer (talk) 18:52, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

  • I sure wish I knew what plot was thickening. I've always enjoyed keeping an eye on what you two are up to. Also came to ask if you or any of your friendly stalkers have any ideas for some Editor of the Week nominations....some new bright stars on the "up and coming" list of WP Newbies. ―Buster7  21:16, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
I like this Sashi Rolls character. Very impressed. petrarchan47คุก 21:49, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
Sorry Buster, we can't tell you. Wikipedia would have to kill us if we did. Face-sad.svg. (Yes, Sashi certainly is impressive!) Gandydancer (talk) 11:56, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
You are all sweet; thanks for sharing that happy photo far from this thread, Gandy. :) As for the plot, y'all seem to know it much better than I do; if it's thickening it would probably be better not to let it burn in the pot. So... I guess I'll go read some science now. It's soooo sunny though! ^^ SashiRolls t · c 13:50, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
It's burning underground Sashi, like a peat fire. It can go on for years and years and most people are not even aware of it or of the damage it is causing. Gandydancer (talk) 14:12, 13 May 2019 (UTC)k

petrarchan47, I noticed your post at the RS questions board and saw that you have done some research on Frontiers journals. Could you point me to anything that you found that may help me to make up my own mind on whether or not they are reliable? Thanks. Gandydancer (talk) 15:14, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Well, you've certainly titled this section appropriately if you want to discuss the "brownlisting" of Frontier's Journals on WP. I'm calling this brownlisting because editors aren't able to officially blacklist it, so instead they are using personal opinions and the perceived consensus of a small handful of users (3-4) to create an unofficial blacklisting, which in reality is no different from an official blacklisting in that it keeps Frontiers' papers out of this, the largest website in the world.
The brownlisting is based on a primary source (and some WP:OR, which you can see here and here), "Beall's List", a blog that was taken offline after Frontiers demanded an investigation into Jeffrey Beall and his blacklist to which they had been unfairly added. Upon completion of the investigation by Beall's employers at the University of Colorado, Beall took his blacklist offline. However, it somehow escaped this fate and became a go-to source on Wikipedia, overriding WP:RS which disallows such sources; it is included in the WP:MEDRS guideline and, with regard to Frontiers, is used in a non-uniform way to reject papers per editor's personal opinions/leanings.

Adding Frontiers to the blacklist may cause problems for researchers who have previously published in the journals, says Lakens. "It could be, the articles people have published in Frontiers are no longer judged based on their own quality, but are now seen as less valuable because Frontiers is on Beall’s list," he says. "Having a single influential individual cast doubt on such a huge journal feels very unfair.” Nature

If Frontiers flew all the way to the States to confront Beall and demand an investigation, I can't help but wonder how they would react to knowing that Wikipedia has reincarnated their blacklisting for all intents and purposes, and on a much bigger scale. I spent 4 heavily caffeinated afternoons looking into this ordeal and using the information I found, will be opening a community discussion soon about the problems outlined above, but until then I suggest you do the same. It's very interesting stuff. petrarchan47คุก 16:08, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
Oh! I had not done any of the reading of the followup to your question. Looks like I need to spend some time with research. We both know it will not change anything but even still I like to get to the truth of things. BTW, they did this same thing with Seralini (sp?) as well. As you remember I even did have some reservations but I note that his name still often appears here and there - and not in the way that it does on WP where even any article which lists his name with many other authors is deemed to be unreliable. OK, I will read all this stuff. If nothing else it will keep my aging brain in good working order. Gandydancer (talk) 16:34, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
Oh dear, it was so disheartening to see your post hijacked by diverting attention to a journal that truly is predatory. Guilt by association I guess. I think you should go for an AfC though we both know it will more likely than not not go as you would hope. The medical section of WP works as a team and we know who the team leader is. Still interesting though.
BTW, is this controversy from a medical mj article? My daughter knows quite a bit about using it for medicinal purposes. I don't care for it and I don't use but she does and she offers help to others as well. It's now legal in our state. Gandydancer (talk) 17:21, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
Maybe I'm just tired, but I don't understand what you're referring to here: "your post hijacked by diverting attention to a journal that truly is predatory". Which post and which journal?
The CBD article is about one of the constituents of Cannabis. THC is famous for intoxicating effects, whereas CBD is only recently becoming known, mainly for treating intractable forms of epilepsy. A few months ago, the US government removed CBD from Schedule 1 (where it sat alongside heroin), but only for use by one pharmaceutical company that had isolated it. The paper from Frontiers is a meta analysis of epilepsy studies, and the main gist was that the studies revealed notable differences between the effects of the isolated compound, versus "whole plant" CBD, which includes over a hundred other cannabinoids as well as plant terpines. This area of research is quite new, making a meta-analysis (and reviews) hard to come by, though they are slowly trickling out. Unfortunately, even though 9% of Americans are now using CBD products, and the CBD page gets over 9K views a day, no one is adding research to the page. The research section has been whittled down to 'one' meaningless sentence. Literally.
Lastly, what is an AfC? petrarchan47คุก 06:59, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
LOL, what is a AfC? The best I could do when I wrote it was to think of "Ask for Comments". Seems, right now, that RfC is more familiar? Geez, I never could keep all these abbreviations sorted out. (For which there is no excuse after being here for more than 12 years. Face-smile.svg) OK, re the switch-a-roo. You asked about one journal but the question was switched to commenting about another journal that truly is not acceptable. ...Guilt by association...even though in fact there is no association. At least I think that's how it went... Do you understand now? Gandydancer (talk) 12:47, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
Petrarchan47 - just an FYI - the acronym AfC = Articles for Creation. Can't say what GD intended it to mean but I'm on the same page she is regarding acronyms. ??? Atsme Talk 📧 14:16, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
It is so good to be able to "chat" with friends on my talk page. We have all spent many hours improving this encyclopedia and we deserve a place to kick back and have a little fun. That is not to say I do not live in constant fear that some well-meaning editor will report my page for some sort of rule break or another. During my working years we had a lot of fun in the coffee room at break time and I would not have wanted to work at a place that did not allow that. Gandydancer (talk) 14:47, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
I wholeheartedly agree with you Gandy - no worries about chit-chat under our science based rules of law which tell us a discussion on an editor's TP that lasts long enough will eventually include mention of WP, a WP editor, or a WP article. It is not unlike Godwin's Law or WP:Tarage's Law and WP:Tarage's Law#WP:TARAGESLAW2 but ours takes it one step further - we'll call it Gandy's dandy law - which asserts that the longer a discussion goes on, sooner or later someone is bound to invoke Godwin or Tarage 1 and/or 2. :-D Atsme Talk 📧 20:36, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
My apologies, Gandy, for waiting so long to respond. I very much appreciate your pointing out the hijacking. Since I am still active at the RS/N thread, I think it's best for me not to discuss it here too. petrarchan47คุก 21:16, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

I assume this was a mistake[edit]

1 hour and four minutes is not "longstanding" [41]. Rather than a revert, going back to a specific revision might be a better way to accomplish that. If you don't like the archive bot version, the Winston Kaminsky edit lasted 9 days.Adoring nanny (talk) 01:59, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Questions about editing practices and goals[edit]

Hi User:Gandydancer,

I'm currently working on a project to better understand the goals and practices of editors of biographical articles on Wikipedia. As you've been significantly involved in writing several biographical pages, I was curious if you would be willing to answer some straightforward questions about your motivations, goals and methodology as you write biographical pieces. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page or reply here if you're interested, although I also completely understand if you are not interested. Thank you, and have a nice day! SiliconRed (talk) 16:06, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Sure User:Siliconred, I'd be glad to answer your questions. I read this article you wrote [42] and I liked it. I have a question as well - how did you choose me to be one of those that you will interview? Gandydancer (talk) 14:58, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks User:Gandydancer! :) I chose you as an interviewee based on your significant contributions to Bernie Sanders's page and your commentary on the talk page. I'm interested in better understanding the form and methodology editors follow when working on articles about public figures, and based on your significant experience I think you can provide strong insights. I would also be happy to communicate by email if you prefer; I can be reached at nathan (@) drezner (.) com. At any rate, here are some first questions:
  • How do you choose which individuals to focus on when writing biographies? Do your political opinions influence which articles you choose to edit?
  • How do you find your editing style is different from other editors on Wikipedia?
  • Do you find that the style of writing biographies on Wikipedia has changed over time? In other words, have you noticed any shifts in the style or content of biographical articles on Wikipedia in the past?
  • Have you noticed any particularly conflicting styles of editing biographical pages?
  • How (if at all) do you protect pages from problematic editing practices? Have you encountered good-faith editors with destructive practices, and, if so, what are those practices?
  • What inspires you to work on Wikipedia?
If there are any questions you would rather not answer, no problem! Let me know if you have any other thoughts, comments, or questions. Cheers, SiliconRed (talk) 15:43, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

OK, question #1:

  • How do you choose which individuals to focus on when writing biographies? Do your political opinions influence which articles you choose to edit?

The first article I ever made an attempt to edit was Helen Caldicott in 2006. I removed a long list of rather silly unsourced criticisms, for example "because she's a pediatrician she oversimplifies her anti-nuclear arguments". Some months later they were returned and the battle began. I tried to find any place in WP that could help me but to no avail. What it took was to have an experienced editor swoop in and delete all the poorly sourced crap from a BLP. Today it would have been easy-peasy for me but back then I knew so little. But it was a good learning article for me. These days I can be the experienced editor that swoops in.

My first GA was Elizabeth Warren. It was back when she was not at all well-known, before she ran for Congress. I'm a political progressive so I knew both her (and Bernie) back then. That article, due to the Pocahantas stuff, has been the most time consuming article I've worked on. A nightmare that just will not end since every time Trump or some Trump-supporting blogger brings it up again new editors flock to the article to fix it.

I'm the major editor of the 2012 Delhi gang rape and an Indian editor and I made it a GA. It was unusual in that many of the editors were from India and emotions were running high all around the world but especially so in India. I teamed with an Indian editor and it was a match made in heaven for me. I could do the writing and he could guide in things that were hard for me, a Westerner, to understand. That article continues to need constant vigilance to keep it in good shape.

I was the major editor at the Dakota Access Pipeline protests article and I came to like David Archambault II quite a bit as I worked on that article so I improved his article, becoming the major editor.

After reading our Matthew Whitaker article I worked on and became the major editor for the World Patent Marketing article. It was one of the more fun articles I've worked on because it was more like writing a SNL skit.

I am a major editor of two other Trump-related articles, Racial views of Donald Trump and Trump administration family separation policy. The racial article remains static and needs little watching but the family separation article continues to require constant watching and updating. Something interesting about these two articles - for the most part I do not have to deal with frequent disruptive edits and talk page complaints and I think that it is because the other major Trump articles are taking up so much editor time that it makes these two much easier to keep free of bias. I have worked on some of the other Trump articles and I can tell you that it is a hellish and exhausting experience. No end of argument goes on over what to put or not put in them, especially in the lead. One of my personal all-time favorite quotes is from the talk page of one of the Trump articles. Two of our best editors (one of them, "Mel", the other I don't remember...) are discussing a desired edit. They decide to go ahead and make the edit and see what happens. "Mel" says, "OK, cover me - I'm going in," and she makes the edit. :=) OK, that it for now but I will get back to this - (actually it's a fun walk down Memory Lane for me.) Gandydancer (talk) 16:04, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

  • How do you find your editing style is different from other editors on Wikipedia?

Yes it is different. For one thing, I'm a woman and women tend to "chat" in RL. I am more likely than most to do it here as well. I had a really very devastating experience related to that when I was still a fairly new editor and I still forget and use chatty talk or humor from time to time and am misunderstood. I have to believe that we have a fair amount of editors that are unable to pick up on the clues that one is just joking around. I also think that it's harder for women than men to make bold moves. You need to learn to do it to be a successful editor, though it is not easy for women until they have gained a lot of experience. I didn't let it be known that I was a woman for a long time and I'd advise any new woman editor to do the same. Gandydancer (talk) 05:08, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Wow, this is fascinating! Thank you so much. It's really interesting to learn more about your experiences. I'm looking forward to learning more as you work your way through the questions :) I've been looking into some of the projects you've worked on and am learning plenty, lots of really engaging work. Also, small clarification: when you say you "knew" Warren & Sanders, do you mean you personally knew them? Or that you followed their activities closely early on? Thanks again!! SiliconRed (talk) 18:38, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Do you find that the style of writing biographies on Wikipedia has changed over time? In other words, have you noticed any shifts in the style or content of biographical articles on Wikipedia in the past?

I'm not the one to be asking this question of because I really am not a very good writer or researcher. I can say this: I've known a few of our very best editors, for example Eric Corbett, Moni3, and Figureskatingfan. Corbett and Moni left this place when they just couldn't take the amount of frustration that they had to put up with anymore. Corbett still watches his user page or you could email him -he might be willing to share his thoughts with you. I don't think that Jimbo and people of his ilk realize how much work goes into a good bio, Maya Angelo done by Figureskatingfan for example. I know that she had read all or many of Angelo's books and spent a huge amount of time. Another good writer is on my page right now, Atsme, and I'll bet she's done bios. I'll ask her to chime in here if she is interested. Anyway, I'll just take a guess and suggest that we may be losing some of our best writers with a resulting slow decay of our best bio articles. Who wants to go to all that work only to have some jerk think that he can improve on a good or featured article? We are far beyond the point where any new editor should be encouraged to be bold, IMO.

LOL, no I do not know Sanders or Warren in person. I am retired and for the most part am unable to contribute to the politicians that I like but I figure that the many hours that I spend on their articles is my way of taking part in our political process. For now, Gandydancer (talk) 01:27, 18 Ap, ril 2019 (UTC)

  • Have you noticed any particularly conflicting styles of editing biographical pages?

The political positions of an editor are very obvious to all. By comparison, Sanders has been easy because he has a lot of editors that like him. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, same thing - while often controversial she has a large strong base here. Without that strong base of editors that like her she would possibly be ripped to shreds without at least a few hard-working editors to keep her article in good shape- even though she is an uppidy woman. Which is true of several (or many?) of our other articles about women or issues related to women. I think that most of our woman editors would agree with me that even though most of our male editors are mature and have unbiased attitudes about women, there is a subgroup that never-endingly feels that they need to inform our readers about the TRUTH about successful women. Some immature men really hate the early feminists, controversial women such as Rachel Carson - as though how could a woman know anything about science, or Caldicott, who should just go back to being a pediatrician, and such. And then there are the new additions to our Congress - Muslim women. I'd say that right now those bios are the most difficult and the most likely to be biased. Only a few dedicated editors are presently spending the countless hours needed to keep up with the constant efforts to bias these articles to a right wing POV, IMO. The bios of black people murdered by the police also comes to mind here. I believe that at least some of this bias is directly related to the Trump presidency that has given encouragement to racists. All in all, IMO WP is doing a good job with keeping articles unbiased and up to date. Gandydancer (talk) 20:00, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

  • How (if at all) do you protect pages from problematic editing practices? Have you encountered good-faith editors with destructive practices, and, if so, what are those practices?

I have a lot of pages on my watch list where I expect problematic (good faith) editing but know that one editor or a small group of editors actively keep those articles in good shape. I only jump in if an RfC comes up or it seems that a hot argument is going on. I very much doubt that most WP readers and even new editors-- and certainly Jimbo--realize that there is a small handful of editors that spend hours and hours to keep some of our most difficult articles in good shape. Editors Slim and Flyer come to mind. If either of these editors would leave today, bias would immediately begin to creep into women's and other articles.

As for the second part of your question, I won't go much into it because you seems to be most interested in my experience in our bios. I will only mention that I no longer edit medical or Monsanto articles. I'm an RN with a Masters degree in nursing and if I remember correctly I am/was the leading editor of the breastfeeding and pregnancy articles--perhaps several others that don't come to mind right now. As for the Monsanto articles, we've lost a lot of good editors that found it hard to believe that the article was not being edited with a strong Monsanto bias. So did I, and do I.

But, getting back to bios, I could again go on extensively but will cut it short just to say that editors that attempt to control an article using oh so polite language and this and that WP guideline, "I'm sure you'd agree", and act as though the rest of us were students while he is the professor--and are extremely polite all the while. And just go right on making the edits that they wanted. Actually there's one of those at Bernie's article and he is the only editor that I have asked to stay off my page, and that is after more than 12 years of editing. Gandydancer (talk) 10:46, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

  • What inspires you to work on Wikipedia?

I discuss this on my user page. I first mention Jimbo's quote about having fun. Some editors are highly critical of Jimbo and I have my gripes as well, but all in all it was his idea to attempt this and I give him credit and my admiration. My user name Gandy dancer also reflects my views on why I edit and what inspires me. Gandy dancers took on a difficult task and through working together by using the art forms of music and poetry, got the job done and felt good about themselves. In fact, that one article and how it came together says a lot about my Wikipedia experience.

Then I mention a Chris Hedges quote about corporate power. I worked on the BP oil spill/BP corporation pages and I've worked on the Chevron article. I used to work on the Monsanto articles but I believe that a corporate takeover has made them impossible to work on. I support politicians that work to reduce corporate power, especially Elizabeth Warren.

I work on Minnesota articles such as my "travel brochure" for Duluth and Ely. They are perhaps both a little heavy on what a fun and interesting place these towns are - makes you just want to pack your bags right now and visit them - but when you write it and watch over it you can manage to do that. :=) (Besides, they both now rely on the tourist trade as their main way to stay afloat.) Same thing for Colorado. I've greatly expanded several articles, Leadville for example. I love geology so Colorado was a great place to cram in a lot of geology information (and the Duluth article as well--read that article and it's pretty obvious what a geology lover was up to.) I have also tucked my (now departed) sister's name into one of our Colorado articles. I need to tell a funny editing story for Moose Lake, Minnesota and then I'm done. Gandydancer (talk) 14:47, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Oh well, I won't get into the Moose Lake story after all. It is briefly mentioned on that talk page but would be an enigma unless explained. It goes along with my craving for fun like we used to have when I was a working woman. You can also see my fun attempts at my poem and art work at the Colbert run for president article. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 15:35, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

As an afterthought SiliconRed, reading what I just said I see that I used the word "craving". Working as an RN in both floor work and supervisory nursing, we managed to have lighthearted fun. We needed to do that. You couldn't have held the life of others in our hands without a means of releasing the pressure that it entails. I could go much deeper into that but it does not seem to be related to what you are presently interested in. Here at WP for the most part no one is going to expire from what we say, but IMO WP has done an excellent job of setting up guidelines to insure that we don't injure the reputation of the people that we discuss here. (There is physical injury, but emotional injury is quite serious as well.) Gandydancer (talk) 16:55, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
This is all quite fascinating--Thanks so much for your continued responses and very thorough thoughts. I've had a great time reading through as you've added over time, and you've helped illuminate points for me I otherwise wouldn't have considered. All the best, and I hope to encounter you elsewhere on WP :) Cheers,SiliconRed (talk) 17:54, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

"not an improvement"[edit]

can you please explain why my edit was reverted regarding the image size on joseph campbell. i don't understand (talk) 18:43, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

I'm sorry - I reverted my edit. I've been watching that page for years and I thought it was another drive-by edit by an IP. BTW, I'm surprised that you do not use some sort of user name. IMO other editors give more respect to names rather than numbers. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 03:38, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Oh, Gandy[edit]

A Venezuelan troupial (Icterus icterus) demonstrates how to avoid pricks when preoccupied with more important things. Atsme Talk 📧 22:13, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

...take a don't have email enabled? Not sure if my joke should be public. ^_^ Atsme Talk 📧 23:23, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

This is a Freedom of Speech area Atsme, though the word police did visit me a while back. It's nice to see you! BTW, some months ago I looked at some of your photos - you really are very good. More often than not when I saw an especially good one it was one of yours. Hope to see more of you above at the Bug 'N Bird Talk section. Gandydancer (talk) 04:00, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
Awww...thank you, sweetie! I actually do have one to add - it's one of my favs. I was at a barrel race with my niece, and was walking back to the trailer when I saw the bird. Atsme Talk 📧 14:20, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
Very nice and they do cheer up my user page. I enjoy them. Say Atsme, I know that you write very well but I have no idea what you have worked on. Please read the above questions and note that I mentioned you today--do you have any info to add? Or Petra too, anything? Gandydancer (talk) 02:36, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
GD - I just now saw your last comment above, or at least that's what my memory tells me. O_O Did I reply? This gal requires pings. Anyway, I left a little bird video for you. Atsme Talk 📧 22:13, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Once again you just blow me away with your many talents and experiences. Always nice to hear from you Atsme. Gandydancer (talk) 12:15, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Donner Party[edit]

Hi Gandydancer. Just to let you know that these edits were part of a pre-TFA tidy up and were to remove duplicate links in line with MOS:DUPLINK. Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:38, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi there Gog the Mild . I've certainly removed my fair share of what I consider stupid links, on the other hand I do like links and I more often than not read them. I understand that this puts me in a minority of WP readers but I figure people that have no desire for a fuller understanding of a topic have a choice to not check out a link and this should not cheat me of having a choice. In a long article with many names and places I consider it OK to link something more than once. Perhaps some of your deletes were good ones but I'm erring on the side of keep for now rather than lose forever. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 15:25, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Hi Gandy. Thanks for the note. Personally I am in favour of IARing duplinks where appropriate. and appreciate that "appropriate" is a matter of subjective judgement. I'm not sure that I agree with all of your judgements re re-linking, but I don't suppose that any two editors would. If you are keeping an eye on this article, then a heads up that I have asked GOCE to review it, prior to its appearance on the front page. You will probably want to review their input. Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:44, 5 May 2019 (UTC)


Happy Mother's Day! That is all :) Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 05:23, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Clayoquot. Always nice to hear from you and I hope you enjoyed your day as well. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 11:59, 13 May 2019 (UTC)


I saw your note and replied. ―Buster7  01:49, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Did you find the "Email this user" entry on my user page menu? ―Buster7  23:11, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
No Buster7, I could not find it. Gandydancer (talk) 12:38, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Image of Wikipedia user page with "Email this user" link highlighted under "toolbox" heading.
"Email this user" is available from the "toolbox" on the left of the screen, when any User or User talk page is viewed.

This page sets out information on the Special:EmailUser feature, a MediaWiki feature that allows registered users to exchange emails with other registered users privately ("off-wiki").

Great find[edit]

The comment you just added to your TP - I had to borrow it!!! 10 years ago - things haven't changed.;-) Atsme Talk 📧 15:42, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Let's not pretend that you and I are not on the totally opposite sides of the political positions fence, and yet again and again you have proven to agree to disagree and yet move forward to defend your positions without denigrating the opinions of those of your opponents. You are very rare Atsme, and offer an important way to deal with opposition. Gandydancer (talk) 16:24, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
❤ Atsme Talk 📧 00:48, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
I enjoyed it too, and was very amused to learn it was from 10 years ago. Somehow, I imagine you've seen that there's a cookout roaring over at AE. Feel free to enjoy a few of the BBQed 🌿 SashiRolls t · c 19:55, 27 May 2019 (UTC) (get 'em while they're hot!) If you have suggestions, I'd be happy to read them here (not there). (I feel like I'm writing Green Eggs and Ham.)
What? Where? Hmmm? I see no new quote here... petrarchan47คุก 17:44, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Ah, I may have found it at Atsme's page petrarchan47คุก 17:47, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

You look like rookies
"I'm sorry, but you two appear to be:
treating each other civilly accepting the possibility that your own actions might not have been correct trying to work out the best thing to do for the project without concern for you[r] own egos. I don't know where you people think you are, but you definitely don't understand how WP:AN is supposed to work. Where's the disrespect? The attacking of each other's characters and motives? The entertaining temper tantrums? Please immediately review other threads on this noticeboard, so you can better participate in WP:AN. Right now you look like rookies.
I don't do AFD, so I have no opinion on whether to relist or not (couldn't hurt, tho, right?), but that's a good example of what should be going on here; useless babble without any helpful outcome. --barneca (talk) 9:57 pm, 16 September 2008

Talk:Tulsi Gabbard[edit]

Please assume good faith and do not accuse me of "[going out of my] way to treat other editors as though they are not capable of editing this article due to stupidity."[43]. I felt that you mischaracterized a comment; I did not assume why. Kolya Butternut (talk) 15:30, 31 May 2019 (UTC)


At the end of the day, Gandy, and in the spirit of "Would you rather be right, or would you rather be happy?", I feel very sure that I would rather not find myself butting heads with you over content on WP. We read the PAGs through our own lenses, so will invariably see things from a different perspective once in a while. I do not find the content of any page here to be more important than good relations with you. And if I thought I had upset you, I would be beside myself.

I recently made an edit to a bio that actually hurt my heart for a good week or so. It was the right thing to do, according to our PAGs. There was serious controversy, yet the bio was exceedingly favourable to the subject, complete with poems and an absence of criticism though it exists. I always put my Wikipedian hat on before editing, where I attempt to remove all emotion and bias in an effort to be wholly neutral, which none of us truly are. But I've learned twice now that to subvert my own humanity doesn't feel good and isn't always a worthwhile exercise.

I wanted to make two points: one is that I truly regret getting into a situation where I was first a "Wikipedian" and second, a friend.

The second point is a follow up. As you know, I took a few years off and have only lately been editing again. During that time, the MEDRS guideline was changed to include a blog that supports the blacklisting of Frontiers journals (along with who knows what else). I took the information I discovered after countless hours of research to the Admin I trust most on such matters, and besides being (gently) slapped upside the head for not asking properly, all my work and evidence was ignored.

At the end of the day, ...there is a lack of uniformity in applying the 'rules' that is not only frustrating, it's making the editing process downright impossible on contentious articles, where it seems only 'power users' are able to make or maintain changes.

I have essentially been kicked off of the pages I used to take care of, like the CBD page, by this lawlessness.

And with regard to working on political articles... I wasn't around during the time so probably haven't told you this, but I was part of a class action lawsuit against the DNC after they stole the primary from Bernie and gave the nom to one of the most hated candidates of all time (ensuring the win for Trump). It was discovered that the DNC's charter allows for them to ignore the will of the people, that all of our donations and effort is for naught.

Law and Crime

Chicago Tribune

Bruce Spiva, representing the DNC, made the argument that would eventually carry the day: that it was impossible to determine who would have standing to claim they had been defrauded. But as he explained how the DNC worked, Spiva made a hypothetical argument that the party wasn't really bound by the votes cast in primaries or caucuses.
"The party has the freedom of association to decide how it's gonna select its representatives to the convention and to the state party," said Spiva. "Even to define what constitutes evenhandedness and impartiality really would already drag the court well into a political question and a question of how the party runs its own affairs. The party could have favored a candidate. I'll put it that way."
In the corners of the media where the lawsuit was covered most, that answer became infamous - proof that the defeated Democrats did not respect the will of the voters. "The DNC reportedly argued that the organization's neutrality among Democratic campaigns during the primaries was merely a 'political promise,' and therefore it had no legal obligations to remain impartial throughout the process," a reporter for Newsweek wrote.

So when I see good faith editors spending hours on a politician's WP bio, I think of this. The powers that be will choose our candidate, and on WP, they will choose what science sees the light of day and what is repressed. It should come as no surprise that I'm not seeing much reason to stick around here.

Your friendship means the world to me, so I thought i'd drop by to share some thoughts. I wish you all the best, all ways, Sarah. petrarchan47คุก 20:02, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

A note from Glendive, Montana[edit]

Just now saw your note at EotW and I somewhat agree and will hold off for awhile. But I am determined that eventually the nominee will receive the Eddy. My wife and I are on a roadtrip to Washington State. Yesterday we passed thru North Dakota. I was surprised at the raw stark beauty of the landscape. I expected a flat prairie which we are familiar with (coming from mid-Illinois). The natural beauty and roll of the country surprised us. But when we got to the Western part of the state we were amazed by the stunning and remarkable views that each turn brought. Theodore Roosevelt National Park is a must-see. Hope all is well!!!―Buster7  12:55, 9 June 2019 (UTC)


Gandydancer if you have a chance please answer here thanks Talk:2018–19 Kivu Ebola outbreak#Requested move 15 June 2019--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 14:44, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Potentially useful articles[edit]

If you wish to use them. Sorry to leave this on your plate, but I'm taking a break (maybe indefinite) from wiki. starship.paint (talk) 03:59, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks...actually I've been looking at some of these and trying to decide just how to go about it at the article--new heading? new section?.. For my TV news I watch only PBS but they have been very, very good about coverage--for one thing one of their reporters has been involved for months and for another, I think motherly instincts, including those felt by men, have kicked in. They mentioned that these for-profit facilities are keeping children that actually could be placed with parents and others just to make more money off housing them. So far I haven't found info on that. Why are you taking a break? Just sick of it all? Gandydancer (talk) 02:14, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Break because 1) need time for myself and 2) hurt from the prospect of never editing here again from a recent block incident. starship.paint (talk) 06:07, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Recent block?...OK, I'll take a look at your edit history and try to see what's going on... Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 21:05, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Ker-RIST!, look at this from the report you list:
In the Border Patrol facilities we visited, we also observed serious overcrowding and prolonged detention among adult detainees. TEDS provides that “under no circumstances should the maximum cell occupancy rate, as set by the fire marshal, be exceeded.” However, at one facility, some single adults were held in standing room only conditions for a week and at another, some single adults were held more than a month in overcrowded cells (see figures 4 and 5).
Standing room only for a week. Just hard for me to believe what I'm reading here... It's like reading about war atrocities... Gandydancer (talk) 02:50, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
As for the article, I’m not sure if it needs a new section. I did create a section on continued expansions and facility inspection results. Check it out, seems like you haven’t. These material can fall under that area, but I don’t want to influence how you add them. starship.paint (talk) 06:07, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Yes, I think I know what you mean... Star, my time here has been so very limited of late and I feel somewhat bad about that...though I am so happy to see a few new editors adding to the article, which is good... As time permits I will continue to attempt to pull my thoughts together... Gandydancer (talk) 21:01, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Hey Gandy. Since I edit intermittently now, I decided to add the July 2019 report. I crossed it out above. starship.paint (talk) 03:11, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────┘ Trump administration migrant detentions - you proposed a new heading or section. I thought, new article? starship.paint (talk) 11:47, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Hey Gandy[edit]

Saw the above and thought I would stop by for a short chat. AYK, I live in the city of Chicago. Right next door to me (I look out over their roof) is a facility, Heartland Alliance, that houses some of these kids. There are five facilities in Chicagoland that house 317 kids...not all are from the border incidents. 2 other Heartland facilities, in Des Plaines IL, were closed recently for sexual abuse of minors by staff. There was a NPR report on local radio...don't know if it went National. No Bad things to report. The facility is an old nursing home that was transformed years ago to house kids with unsure legal status. Its very insular with very little interaction with the neighborhood. The kids often walk, escorted by staff, to the city park that is just 1/2 block away for exercise. Always well behaved but staff frowns on any interaction between us and them. A smile and a look of understanding is the most that's allowed. (Touhy Park if you look an a city map. Far Northside, in Rogers Park bario. (lol). A few weeks ago when the news was that kids were being transported inland, a bus arrived late at night, after midnight, and my wife went down to videotape. Normal action by people in todays world of recording what we see. Staff was vehement that she stop... to protect the rights of the kids, they said. Of course she continued but nothing of newsworthy confidence occurred. My niece is the mid-day News producer for WGN-TV. She saw the tape and said it had no pizz-azz. :~(. I'm semi-Retired while and till the WP:FRAM incident gets resolved. EotW awards are on hold till then (3 weeks now). 2019 Cubs game log entries are minimal as are player article comments and posts. While interested and fearful of the political wranglings of this administration, I must say that a recent 10 day road trip out west where we only listened to good old rocknroll classics and some Jazz was a Godsend. Lived in a TePee for one day in Montana [49]. Spent a couple of days in Deadwood on the way home for R&R. Thanks for the Tea! Love to Petra! ―Buster7  13:38, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the note! I miss you and very much look forward to a long chat but it will be a few more days till I have Wiki time. Bye for now... Gandydancer (talk) 13:47, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
Hi kids! Just wanted to drop by and let you know I haven't got the time for a response you deserve, but I'll be back once I do. Meanwhile, sending big hugs to you both ~ petrarchan47คุก 23:02, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
Crazy Horse scale model (2008) I was at the Sturgis Bike Rally Atsme Talk 📧 02:42, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Mountain site for Crazy Horse monument (2008) It has progressed since then. Atsme Talk 📧 02:42, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Dear Friends, it is good to have grounding as we sail upon such strange waters as we find ourselves in these days. Buster, hopefully you felt my heartstrings reaching out to you as you traveled this beautiful country out to the West Coast. I am a girl of the West, it is in my heart and in my blood. Considering the possibility that this may sound overly poetic, I was talking to my granddaughter the other day and I reminded her that I had told her some years ago that no matter where her life took her, the ocean coast, where she was born, would always be in her heart. Although the family moved to northern Maine some years ago, she said yes, not a day goes by that she does not think about the ocean. Buster, our family trips took us through the Bad Lands several times. I love the Dakotas. The First Americans say that the Black Hills are a sacred place and I believe it. I don't know what it was, perhaps the mica in the dirt that made the hills glitter with a heavenly glow played a part, but I felt it was sacred as we drove though those dry hills. Have you looked at the progress of the Crazy Horse monument or have you gone to the museum? Gandydancer (talk) 18:16, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
Missed Crazy Horse this trip but heard that it was proceeding at an accelerated rate with additional hands on deck. It is much more enjoyable and impressive than Rushmore which is still wonderful but from a distance. We love The West, top to bottom, and would head back in a second if only the Cat, beloved Starr, was a better traveller. He doesnt like the car and is quite loud in letting us know. ―Buster7  01:19, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Looking just now for these words spoken by Chief Black Elk I see they've changed the name from Harney Peak to Black Elk Peak. That's very nice.

"I was standing on the highest mountain of them all, and round about beneath me was the whole hoop of the world," he is quoted as saying. "And while I stood there I saw more than I can tell and I understood more than I saw; for I was seeing in a sacred manner the shapes of all things in the spirit, and the shape of all shapes as they must live together like one being."

I read Black Elk Speaks many years ago and it is still with me. He says "I was seeing things in a sacred manner". Have you ever had one of those rare sacred moments Buster? I've had a few and they are proof enough that there is a deeper reality all around us that we are not generally in touch with - except in those rare moments.

As a footnote to the comment that he was taken to the center of the world, Neihardt notes “Black Elk said the mountain he stood upon in his vision was Harney Peak in the Black Hills. ‘But anywhere is the center of the world,’ he added.”[50] Gandydancer (talk) 13:20, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Neihardt study from E.JPG
I visited the cabin where Black Elk Speaks was written! I was just reading your comment, Gandy, I and began to wonder - do people become monks because they wanted awareness of that deeper reality to be common, not rare? petrarchan47คุก 02:52, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

I don't know. I've known only one monk and that would be David Steindl-Rast. Not that I knew him well at all - I knew him because I had a German friend at Esalen and they would speak German together?..or?...I don't know/can't remember...I only remember that Brother David was so happy and mirthful, and such a pleasure to be around. As far as I can tell, he was living on the same difficult plane as the rest of us... Gandydancer (talk) 21:29, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

rare sacred moments[edit]

Many years ago while travelling near Canyon de Chelly, Arizona on my way home from Phoenix (having seen my youngest daughter), I saw a small non-descript handmade sign near a dusty off-road. It pointed to a group that I knew of just 20 miles away.Now 20 miles on a dusty Arizona backroad is a LONG way and I was in a hurry to get home. I had missed seeing thousand of desert signs. Why did I notice this one? Two hours later I was standing at the edge of a table, about 3 feet off the ground, naked, with my back turned to a group of new friends preparing to do a "Trust Fall". I fell backwards, they caught me, then raised me over their heads with my arms outstretched crucifix style. I don't mean to sound blasphemous but my mind raced to the resurrection of Jesus as they held me airborne for what seemed like forever. Most likey it was no more than a couple of minutes. Months before I had become a divorced father of 3 and acclimating to my new world was a true test. Without sharing too many details the moment was transforming. It changed my life, my direction, the road I was travelling. It came at the very best time. I still have desert-spring water we shared. I replenish it from the tap with Lake Michigans best. ―Buster7  07:16, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I understand. At certain times in our lives when we find ourselves in situations where God seems to have deserted us to the point that in utter desperation we let go of our attempt to control, that is when the Spirit comes into our body and we are forevermore changed by the experience. It is interesting that in your case it was not a mental act of letting go but a literal loss of control of your body when your new friends lifted you up. Face-smile.svg And then time stood still: The Eternal Now. My first experience came when I was in my 30's in a divorce from a loving but alcoholic husband, the second in my 40's when dealing with long-repressed issues about the death of my mother and feelings toward my father, and the third in my fifties when I dealt with...lets say Jungian life mythology issues (for lack of better wording). Gandydancer (talk) 16:33, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

"Existential crisis"? petrarchan47คุก 02:08, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
Not really. More like Peak experience. Gandydancer (talk) 02:57, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

"Indians are ruining our Western way of life"[edit]

While I mull over your challenge about rare sacred moments let me just share something with you and your stalkers. The title of this sub-thread must sound like the most insensitive thing any thinking person can say even in these trying times of daily dealing with The Trump Dilemma. But that remarkably insensitive comment was made by Rep Liz Cheney (R-WY), the daughter of Dick Cheney and the House Republican Conference Chairwoman. She said these brazen, racist words into a microphone, today, at the House of Representatives in Wash.DC. On first blush you might think she just wanted to assure The Trump Kids that they could still come to Wyoming to do some Trophy hunting for grizzlies. But, no, this is about more than hunting for trophy bears. It is about the subversive influence of multi-national fossil-fuel corporations and the corruption of the long standing US Fish and Wildlife Services’s grizzly protection. On an even deeper more destructive level it is about exposing the hidden role of the Extractive Industry into the process of what should be creating policies to protect and conserve our natural treasures but turns out to be about enriching the all-ready rich. Follow The Money. Nowadays its important to let each other know what we discover. This was my SAD discovery for today. Native VoicesBuster7  05:21, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Your link did not work for me. I'll try this: Native News Online [51] Gandydancer (talk) 13:21, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
They may not look like much but their work is very effective
Well Liz Cheney's deeds have not gone unnoticed, thanks to you. I have been as busy as a beaver, so as to speak, and now my animal friend the grizzly's article has seen a few changes, as have the Cheyney and the Environmental policy of the Donald Trump administration articles. Gandydancer (talk) 16:58, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
TY Gandy. Just back from the wilderness of Central Illinois where we exist without Direct TV (old VCR"s still work), no phone service (My Cricket phone stays silent) and we only listen to Music on the radio. I'll check out your improvements soon... as soon as I get over the shock of the accelerated turmoil of life in TrumpWorld. ―Buster7  15:45, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
"Old VCRs still work" - LOL. Actually I've got quite a few of those that I'd like to convert to disks--is this possible? Also Buster, see my citizen addition to M. Trump's article. To this point I was the one who tended to "protect" her BIO from what I saw as unfair attempts to smear her but what with this latest effort to criminalize honest people and the heartbreak that it is causing, I have been left with no alternative but to honestly report Trump's own wife and her parents attainment of U.S. citizenship. Gandydancer (talk) 17:21, 12 August 2019 (UTC)


The Lifespring article is an editorial piece of toilet paper. It's one of those articles that gets taken over by critics and cynics over the years and no one notices cause no one is paying attention. I've read some of the early 2007 versions that have some connection to the truth but the current article is rubbish. What to do? Resurrection of this article will take time and effort which I will start soon. The two editors on the talk page are both discredited. The archives contain alot of info, pro and con. Heres the problem. I worked for Lifespring in the late '80s and early '90s. I'm very sure I am biased. The articles unfairly focuses too much on the worst possible aspects of the training and I'm sure it was sabotaged by disgruntled clients during it history. Because of my extensive hands-on experience during my own trainings and dozens of others, I can unequivocally claim that maybe 4 or 5% of participants didn't "get it" and left their training before completion. The point is if there were 100 participants to an basic 4 day event, there were 100 trainings. Each was unique based on the level of participating by each person. I am willing to spend months recreating a fair and balanced article. DO I need to make some declaration at the article talk page or on my own talk page as to my connection to the subject matter. Can I be fair and impartial? ―Buster7  15:45, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Good luck with this Buster but I'm pretty sure it would be a fool's errand. There are a cabal of editors, I'd guess mid to late-aged male editors, who just effing hate anything at all new-agey. Take for example Depok Chopra (sp?). I really just can't stand him but even still his article is totally biased. Even Jill Stein, who I dislike as well, but for a BIO her article is absolutely outrageous in what editors have been able to get away with. Or look at our medical articles where if it is not mainstream Western medicine it's pseudoscience. Gandydancer (talk) 16:46, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
Or even if it is mainstream Western medicine, such as acupuncture. I have long ago given up on attempting to work on this or similar articles and just now checked to see what their latest assessment of this widely used practice is, and I find this opening for the article:
Acupuncture[a] is a form of alternative medicine and a key component of traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) in which thin needles are inserted into the body. Acupuncture is a pseudoscience because the theories and practices of TCM are not based on scientific knowledge, and it has been characterized as quackery. Gandydancer (talk) 16:56, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
I have used Acupuncture over the years for various back ailments. And psoriasis. I also bought the special "this is just for you" tea which is terrible. I think they go to a cow pasture and search for cowpies. Then, they move the cowpie and whatever plant is under there is used to make tea. ―Buster7  06:12, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 12[edit]

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September 2019[edit]

Copyright problem icon Your addition to Trump administration family separation policy has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. This is your final warning. Further violation of Wikipedia's copyright policy will result in you being blocked from editing. — Diannaa ðŸ (talk) 23:13, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Diannaa please explain how I can find the deleted copy so that I can remove the copyvio and return it to the article. Thanks. Gandydancer (talk) 23:54, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
Your addition was flagged by a bot as a potential copyright issue and was assessed by myself. Here is a link to the bot report. Click on the iThenticate link to view the overlap.— Diannaa ðŸ (talk) 00:07, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. I do not understand why all of my following edits were deleted as well, such as a minor edit to improve one word, etc. I can't remember exactly what they involved. Can those edits be returned? Gandydancer (talk) 00:47, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
The only thing that was removed was the copyright material, as you can hopefully see via this diff. — Diannaa ðŸ (talk) 02:21, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

AfroCine: Join the Months of African Cinema this October![edit]

AfroCine - bare logo.png


After a successful first iteration of the “Months of African Cinema” last year, we are happy to announce that it will be happening again this year, starting from October 1! In the 2018 edition of the contest, about 600 Wikipedia articles were created in at least 8 languages. There were also contributions to Wikidata and Wikimedia commons, which brought the total number of wikimedia pages created during the contest to over 1,000.

The AfroCine Project welcomes you to October, the first out of the two months which have been dedicated to creating and improving content that centre around the cinema of Africa, the Caribbean, and the diaspora. Join us in this global edit-a-thon, by helping to create or expand articles which are connected to this scope. Also remember to list your name under the participants section.

On English Wikipedia, we would be recognizing participants in the following manner:

  • Overall winner (1st, 2nd, 3rd places)
  • Diversity winner
  • Gender-gap fillers
For further information about the contest, the recognition categories and how to participate, please visit the contest page here. For further inquiries, please leave comments on the contest talkpage or on the main project talkpage. See you around :).--Jamie Tubers (talk) 00:50, 30 September 2019 (UTC)