User talk:Gen. Quon

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Welcome to the talk page for Gen. Quon (Talk). I usually reply where you put the comment, although if I need to get a hold of you, I will respond on your talk page.
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TFA[edit]

Thank you for all things, "notably because it was written and directed by series co-star Gillian Anderson"! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:12, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

No prob! Thanks for the kind words. :) It's an odd episode that gets a lot of hate, but it's one that I have an affinity for.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 16:33, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

File:Slowdance marcyhunson.jpg[edit]

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How to pick number of audio samples[edit]

Hello, I see you are listed on the set of FAC mentors with an interest in music. Can I ask your advice? How should I determine the right number of audio samples to use in a music article?

I am currently working on a music article and trying to figure out how to balance Mos music samples with WP:NFCCP#3 minimal use. I have posted on the talk page for MoS Music samples to ask for help. If you have any thoughts I would love to hear them. Thanks! --Culix (talk) 04:36, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

@Culix: Great question! First off, I know there isn't a 'right' answer per se, and many deletionist editors out there will tell you that, in essence, the correct number is zero. Just remember that some people will always have very strong opinions about this sort of thing, and you might have to defend your choices in the future.
In my experience, I've had luck with one or two if it's an album I'm working on, and a few more if it's, say, a band that has a large discography. When choosing the samples, it's best to pick songs that really need them... if that makes any sense. Like, an article on a song that has bizarre time signature and uses rubber bands as the main instrument might really use a sample to let a reader just what the heck it sounds like. A very simple rock song that isn't that remarkable, either musically or lyrically probably doesn't need that.
Length is another thing to consider. If the song is 4 minutes, and your sample is around 15 seconds, you're only using 6.25% of the whole song. That's really not that much, especially when you consider that your 15 second sample in any real way serve as a replacement for the full thing. But if the song is 1:30 and your sample is 30 seconds, you're in 33.3% territory, and now it's very questionable. WP:SAMPLE has a nice cheat sheet on what length of sample to use.
I hope these initial points were useful. If I might ask, what article are you working on? I might be able to provide some more detailed advice if I know what we're talking about.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 13:49, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for the reply! I think this makes sense.
When I started I was looking at articles like Tool (band) and Love._Angel._Music._Baby.. Tool uses four samples, and the other one uses three. So my impression was that using several clips was standard. But it appears this is not always true.
I am working on The Phenomenauts. They have five albums, and have several comments from reviewers noting that the band uses multiple music styles and genres. Personally, from my first naive opinion I thought it would help illustrate their style to use three audio clips. I used one for "rockabilly" style, one for "new wave", and one for "punk rock". That seemed to give a good overview of the band. However, if that is far beyond fair use I will first attempt to make a case for using one clip.
>A very simple rock song that isn't that remarkable, either musically or lyrically probably doesn't need that.
Thanks, this is a good thing to think about. I see that on Tool's page the songs they use are also quite notable. One was in a court case. Two won Grammys. So likely that helps. I think there is a case for at least one Phenomenauts song to be notable and have critical commentary. I will try to fix up the article.
Do you have any favourite examples of well placed audio use?
Thanks! --Culix (talk) 06:44, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
From a cursory glance at these albums/pages (and my knowledge of the musicians in question), I'd say you're probably good. Tool, for instance, is pretty unique and they get a lot of props for their style. I've never heard of The Phenomenauts, but since the three songs you mentioned are all different styles, I think it makes total sense to give readers a little 'taste' of what the band can do. And the 'generic rock' thing is kind of hard to pin down, but I feel like a lot of albums have those tracks that are just meh. Those probably shouldn't be on pages, but something that won a Grammy and has been lauded for its unique style definitely should, imho. Anyway, those pages you're working in look really good!--Gen. Quon (Talk) 13:44, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for the kind words! I appreciate you taking a look :) (I am actually only working on The Phenomenauts. I did not mean to take any credit for the other two articles) I was also re-reading through contextual significance, and trying to add critical commentary into the article to make a stronger case. Perhaps it is best to build up, one (sourced) piece at a time.
When you work on Featured Articles with audio samples, do you usually ask for feedback and 'vetting' of the clips before you apply for GA or FA?
Happy editing! --Culix (talk) 05:12, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

@Culix: Oh, whoops, I mis-read your earlier comment. I definitely think it's best to write a nice section that can then be enriched with a musical sample, rather than the other way around. Not only will you avoid a premature deletionist campaign, but you can also, as you say, build up a strong case for the sample's inclusion. As for 'vetting', what you could do is add the sample in, bulk up the NFCC rationale on the snippet page and on the article itself, and then reach out to Wikipedia:Peer review? People there might be willing to comb over the article and see if the sample works. Feel free to reach out to me, too. I can always take a gander.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 15:15, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

File:Brand New Knife.jpg[edit]

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Astronomica (Manilius)[edit]

@Baffle gab1978: Thank you so much for your wonderful work! I really appreciate it!--Gen. Quon (Talk) 19:00, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

August and New Achievements at Women in Red[edit]

Meetups #87, #88, #89, #90[edit]

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--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:33, 19 July 2018 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Annales (Ennius)[edit]

Hello:

The copy edit you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article Annales (Ennius) has been completed. I do not think it is overly complicated for the interested reader.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Best of luck with the GAN.

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 12:25, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

@Twofingered Typist: Thanks for both your hard work and kind words. I really appreciate all the energy that you put into editing it!--Gen. Quon (Talk) 13:30, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Adventure Time (season 9) copyedit[edit]

@Miniapolis: Thank you so much for your edits! The page looks absolutely great now.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 20:00, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Adventure Time (season 8)[edit]

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Your GA nomination of Adventure Time (season 9)[edit]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Adventure Time (season 9) you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. Time2wait.svg This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Figfires -- Figfires (talk) 20:02, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Adventure Time (season 8)[edit]

The article Adventure Time (season 8) you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Adventure Time (season 8) for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. FigfiresSend me a message! 00:33, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Adventure Time (season 9)[edit]

The article Adventure Time (season 9) you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:Adventure Time (season 9) for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. FigfiresSend me a message! 16:14, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

File:Slowdance marcyhunson.jpg listed for discussion[edit]

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A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Slowdance marcyhunson.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 07:29, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Come Along with Me (Adventure Time)[edit]

Can you help me fix the references you added to this article please? Thanks. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 02:47, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

@Koavf: sure. What's wrong with them?--Gen. Quon (Talk) 02:52, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
Can you please stick with the style I had initially, moving them down into the {{reflist}} template? It seems like we had duplicate references too, so I've harmonized them. Thanks. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 02:53, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
@Koavf: Should be good to go now.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 03:01, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
Much obliged! I love when the WikiWay works! Thanks for collaborating. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 05:13, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for trimming the plot--it's ~600 words now. Maybe 450 is better defensible but it's not obviously too long like before. I really struggle with prose here sometimes, so I value your skills. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 20:51, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
@Koavf: No prob! It's at 490—I'll see if I can cut it down just a bit to 450. (Also, sorry if I came off terse when I reverted your edit the other day. I meant to get to it, but this week was a bit hectic!)--Gen. Quon (Talk) 20:57, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
Not at all. Frankly, I realized how I've been 1.) too cranky and 2.) too negligent in my editing myself lately. Thanks to you and User:Ss112 (among others). No reason to not be nice. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 20:59, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
@Koavf: I'm glad to hear! I just didn't want to come across in bad faith. Anyway, I think around 490 should be OK. Since this is a finale, there was a lot of stuff covered.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 21:04, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Promoting Indiggo to FA[edit]

Hi Gen. Quon,

At Wikipedia:Mentoring for FAC#Mentors, you said: "My editing interests are all over the place, but I have the most Wikipedia experience in television (post-1990 shows mostly) and pop culture-related fields (e.g. popular and alt. rock music). I also work with anthropological and classics articles. All in all, I'm open to working with people outside my area of 'expertise'." You also have a userbox for taking 12 articles from deletion discussion to good article status.

I hope I can interest you in helping me get Indiggo, an article about two Romanian born, now American, identical twins, promoted from Stub-class to Featured Article. The article was actually deleted and relisted as a result of a deletion review that resulted in no consensus. The second AfD resulted in a "Keep," when an editor provided a link to swiss.charts.com that said a 2006 single had been 89th in Germany for 2 weeks. I have sources describing their music as "tribal pop," "pop/rock," "gypsy pop" and "theatrical hip hop." They appeared on America's Got Talent in 2006. One of them was on Law & Order: Special Victim's Unit.

I was one of two editors primarily responsible for promoting Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri from C Class to GA. I started work on Indiggo on July 26. Since then, I've gone through all the existing cites, eliminated half of the existing sections, added two sections and doubled the existing two sections with additional material, resulting in massive changes to the text. I kept extensive notes on the talk page and created a subpage with machine translations of the foreign language sources. My 452 extensive edit summaries also record my actions.

I hope that the idea of promoting an article about a barely notable band that was deleted to Featured Article captures your fancy and that I have provided enough information about me to convince you that time spent mentoring me will result in improvement to the article. Besides contacting you, my plan is to go through my early cites, adding additional details, e.g. publisher and publication place, go through my sources to find additional words or cites for the article, reading the MOS and conforming the article to it.

I realize you are very busy. Thank you for your attention. Vyeh (talk) 00:17, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

@Vyeh: Hey, thanks for reaching out! I'd be more than happy to help out. If it's OK, I might spread the work out over this next week. What I'd first like to do is get familiar with the topic (as I've never heard of 'em, so I don't want to be too ignorant; it's an interesting topic, though). Then I can peak over the article, maybe do a copy-edit if needed, and we can go from there. Would that work for you? I am a bit busy, so if I don't do anything within the next few days, just ping me and I'll jump back on this.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 01:19, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
@Gen. Quon: Thank you for your prompt response. Your time table is fine. I ordered two of their CD's from Germany. I won't get them until October. It's not surprising you haven't heard of them. They're barely notable. They aren't Röyksopp. I recommend Google searches on "Indiggo," "Wicked Clone," "Gabriela Modorcea" and "Mihaela Modorcea." Jay-Z and Kanye West sampled their single "La La La" on "Watch the Throne" (2011). The NYT review mentioned them about 5/6th of the way through the review. You'll see in the references a lot of foreign language sources and off-line books. I ordered Law & Order: Special Victims Unit: The Unofficial Companion to check a cite. While I welcome your copy-edit, your time may be more efficiently used by citing the appropriate sections of the MOS and letting me take a first crack. I appreciate your time. I can see you're very busy. Vyeh (talk) 04:05, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

File:AdventureTime Season9 DVD.jpg[edit]

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Rebecca Sugar[edit]

You asked for my rationale:

1. She identities as a non-binary woman, so her position as the first woman show creator on the network does not need an asterisk.

2. It is an article about Summer Camp Island, not about Rebecca Sugar. Her article already includes as section about her gender identity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grand Commander13 (talkcontribs) 13:56, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

@Grand Commander13: Then why did you revert my initial edit? I agree with you that because she identifies as a "non-binary woman ... her position as the first woman show creator on the network does not need an asterisk" (that was literally the whole point of this edit). As of right now, the prose is very clunky, having back-to-back parentheticals.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 13:59, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
That edit was for the second reason: it's an article about Summer Camp Island. In an article about Steven Universe it wouldn't feel as clunky, but she's not the showrunner on SCI, Ms. Pott is.
-Grand Commander13 (talk) 14:07, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
@Grand Commander13: You seem to be saying two different things? She's not the star of the article (which I agree with), and her gender identity doesn't need a note (which I agree with). Yet you reverted my edits? "(the first being Steven Universe, which was created by Rebecca Sugar)." is succinct and to the point. I don't see why you find it questionable.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 14:36, 19 September 2018 (UTC)