User talk:George Al-Shami

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Hello, George Al-Shami, and welcome to Wikipedia! I'm Anas, one of the many editors here at Wikipedia. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or type {{helpme}} here on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. I'm looking forward for your contributions! Crystal Clear app ksmiletris.pngANAS Talk 14:54, 24 December 2006 (UTC)


Asma al-Assad[edit]

Hi there, I assume you speak Arabic (?) and wondered if you wanted to help with the Asma al-Assad article. See the discussion page, we cant find an official source (Syrian government would be good) for her official title, is it "First Lady of Syria" (or the local equivalent). Now I understand this is subject to controversy in Syria, and I don’t want to start an edit war, but help would be welcome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SasiSasi (talkcontribs) 21:27, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Syrian military presence[edit]

Don't waste your time on Wikipedia. Israel "anonymously" donated over $250,000 to Wikipedia so that its team of paid editors like User:Jayjg and User:Humus sapiens be given special privileges and administrative powers to write whatever suits Israel. Don't waste your time. People are paid to edit the articles you're likely to be interested in. Nooo1 (talk) 18:56, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I just noticed the comment above. It's a good thing you know that these people are paid to do what they do. Nooo1 (talk) 21:19, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure about the paying thing, but I can say for sure there are editros that are biased for Israel. e.g. user:Hertz1888 doesn't allow me to write that the Golan Heights are Syrian occupied territory according to the UN and international law. He says the UN is "biased" and the story "has more to it than what UN maps show." He wants me to convince the zionist editors with recognizing the UN first and after that I can edit. His name looks like a Zionist name but he denies it. This is just a specimen of the kind of editors that is out there, so don't get too emotional about it. Wikipedia is biased. If you find a bised article just add the tag to it.HD1986 (talk) 23:26, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Maybe they aren't getting paid but they fear that they would have to pay. I think there are zionist groups that are suing Wikipedia for "anti-Semitism;" this may be the reason for what you see. HD1986 (talk) 02:10, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Tahya Souria[edit]

Hi George, sorry for the late reply, yes we will have some other admins look at this because the current name has been unendorsed. I tried to move it but it doesn't work so i've requested help. Appreciate the support. Izzedine (talk) 04:50, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Tabouleh[edit]

Hi George, maybe you could use this source - [1].

CUISINE
It is difficult to separate specifically Syrian foods from those made popular by the Greater Syrian population. Such standard fare in America as pita bread and crushed chick pea or eggplant spreads, hommos and baba ganouj, both come from the former Syrian heartland. The popular salad, tabouli, is also a Greater Syrian product. Other typical foods include cheeses and yogurts, and many of the fruits and vegetables common to the eastern Mediterranean, including pickles, hot peppers, olives, and pistachios..

Izzedine (talk) 00:30, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
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Speedy deletion nomination of Alia Haddad[edit]

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A tag has been placed on Alia Haddad requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies. You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the Article Wizard.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 21:50, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Eastern Mediterranean[edit]

  • Hello. I noticed your edits to the article Eastern Mediterranean. I have no interest in editing or changing the article, but only was wondering if you might be able to answer a question for me. I have always understood the term "Eastern Mediterranean" to not only encompass the nations of the Levant, but Greece, Turkey and Egypt as well. Is my understanding of the term unusual in that regard? The Scythian 22:35, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
    • Thank you for the response. I guess I always lumped those nations into the same overall "cultural sphere", regardless of language or even religion, due to the historical connections going back thousands of years. Of course, my generalization is very sweeping in nature, even if as a direct categorization, it is much too broad. I do the same thing with with the Western Mediterranean nations such as Italy and Spain, as well as the region of Iran and Central Asia. The Scythian 19:27, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

GA reassessment of Syrian American[edit]

I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the GA Sweeps process. You are being notified as you have made a number of contributions to the article. I have found some concerns which you can see at Talk:Syrian American/GA1. I have placed the article on hold whilst these are fixed. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 03:17, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Arabic[edit]

Hey, you speak Arabic? Do you know what it says in the black sign on the building here? [2] --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 12:02, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Orthodox Christianity in Syria[edit]

Could you help me to develop that article about Orthodox Christianity in Syria.

Thanks in advance

Meritwantsfp (talk) 21:46, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

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WP Category: People of Levantine-Greek Orthodox descent[edit]

Dear George,

Since you seem to be a rational soul and know about Orthodoxy/Early Christianity, the MENA area, and the "Byzantine" (no pun intended!) subtleties of Eastern Mediterranean and 'old European' cultural categorization and Church(es) history, I’m writing to draw your attention to the fact that some reckless Wiki-Boeotians want to delete the “People of Levantine-Greek Orthodox descent” and the “American of Levantine-Greek Orthodox descent” categories!

See this page

Your erudite editorial help in the current « deletion debate » would be appreciated

Cordially,

--B.Andersohn (talk) 12:36, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Gregory Orfalea for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Gregory Orfalea is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gregory Orfalea until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Huon (talk) 15:51, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Syrian people[edit]

Dear George, kindly share with your valuable ideas in the talkpage of the Syrian people article. For me, it is not acceptable to limit the term "Syrian people" within the modern usage, something means that the pre-1918 (prior to the establishment of the modern Syrian state) history of Syria would be neglected.--Zyzzzzzy (talk) 11:12, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Then I wonder, what is the ethnicity of Philip the Arab, Zenobia or Al-Ma'arri? Since they are not Syrians, what category would they be included in?--Zyzzzzzy (talk) 11:15, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Syrian ethnicity[edit]

hello George, i have a controversial plan but im gonna do it anyway , sadly our Syrian people doesn't understand the difference between ethnicity, citizenship and language. they think they are Arabs just because they speak Arabic, they think that the Syrian people article shouldn't exist because we are arabs and their is already an article on Arabs, they think that Syria is a new state and that their is no Syrian ethnicity even though the Seleucid kings termed themselves kings of Syria sadly we have Arab nationalist propaganda shoved down our throats but this cant continue, im not radical , i dont claim Syrians to be purely Aramaic like some Lebanese think themselves purely Phoenicians , but most of the Syrian so called arabs are in fact of aramean stock, muslims and Christians Arabs in syria are just arabised old arameans and other indigenous levantine peoples, i mean the people of bakh'a and jubb addin near ma'lula are muslims and speak Aramaic and thats got to tell you something, sure their is pure arabs and we know where they live (hawran, deir el zor , raqqa) but the rest of the country is just arameans who were arabised and most of them islamized

i think the article Syrian people should be about syrian ethnicity (that is the so called arabs of syria) every other people article focus on the dominant ethnicity in the country, their is Turkish minority in the Netherlands but the dutch people article only focus on the dutch, so why not the Syrian people article only focus on ethnic Syrians who are the Syriac arameans and the arabised Syrians who call themselves Arabs ??

for sure i will be attacked if i made those changes to the article, and my words are worthless without reliable scientific studies , but thank god those studies actually exist and i have them, only 33 percent of arab Syrians are actually ethnically arabs from arabia while the rest are just arabised arameans and Phoenicians with a little arab input

im collecting citations like books of famous respected professors not just propaganda and im collecting genetic studies of syrian people and now i can (with trust) say that i have everything i need to unviel the truth which is : syrian are an ethnicity . they are the grandchildren of the old arameans and Phoenician who absorbed some arabic dna and were arabised and islamized (im muslim by the way), i just dont believe that i came from Saudi Arabia and now i have genetic evidence to support what i say

why im writing this to you :

i have a plan for the article (syrian people) that is for the article to speak about Syrians just like the article dutch people or french people speaks for their respective people, and the minorities of syria belongs in the Syrian demography article not in Syrian population

im not gonna touch the syrian people article now, instead im gonna create an article called : arabs of syria, in that article im gonna tell the history of arab tribes migration to syria , the arabization and islamization of syrians, the history of the indigenous arameans syrians and then im gonna present the genetic studies that prove what i said

im not a crazy nationalist, i just believe that Syrians are distinct from Saudis or Yemenis and i think that we have the right to claim our great ancestors, again i dont claim that their weren't any arab input, on the contrary Syrians have Arab ancestors but the old Syrians are the ones who absorbed the new Arabs not the other way around, its like the Hungarians who are a European white population but the old Hungarians were Turkic tribes who spread their language on their subjects and then melted to create the modern Magyar people,

the arabs came to syria and melted with the original population and thats how modern syrians were born and that is all what im gonna prove.

im just gonna prove that we are indigenous to our land and that the old arameans were our ancestors but im not gonna deny the arab blood in our veins

i need you support , if you agree then im gonna write the article and i will let you see it, then if you find that it is good written and not biased toward any point of view then im gonna need your help turning the Syrian people page into a real article, that speak about our people not about us as citizens of a new invented country i need your help because i dont wanna go through edit wars with arab nationalists who think that syria was depopulated and that the old population just left their houses, stop marrying and stopped giving birth then Bedouin arab tribes filled the empty space in our cities and villages

if i dont have any support im just not gonna waste my time writing an article that would be rejected even if it speaks the truth

and just to give you an idea : my article will be very close to this article , only with genetic studies and much more reliable citations https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8_%D8%B3%D9%88%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A7 --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 07:45, 3 March 2014 (UTC)


Hello George, Syriac crazy nationalists are my target , just because their ancestors chose to maintain their identity and our ancestors didn't, doesn't give them the right to take our history solely for themselves, i also want to make a difference between assyrians and arameans, Assyrian were enemies of the arameans, syriac is just the aramean accent of the city Edessa not an ethnicity, assyrians belong in Iraq and are a racial minority in syria, while arameans are just the same as us, they just maintained their identity, all assyrian claims are not gonna stand in face of DNA tests
now im gonna create a separate page called arabs of syria, after its finish im gonna show it to you then if it can stand against crazy iraqi assyrians then we can merge it in the syrian people article and ask for it to protected against vandalism specially if we have genetic studies on our side. --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:46, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
hey, I saw the Christianity in syria article, and a conflict about syrian popes, I want to give you one argument if its ok,: syrian popes were not syriacs/assyrians, obviously because they were not part of the syriac church otherwise they wouldn't have took the papal throne, and since they were not assyrians, then they were from syria west of the Euphrates and syrian is the only designation for them, 2- most importantly, the article is about Christianity in syria not about ethnicity, so the argument about if those popes were the same as modern syrians doesnt belong in the article, this article is about the christian faith in general and those popes came from syria, ethnicity is not mentioned and is not part of the argument, so those popes must stay because they are called syrians and the article is about Christianity in syria not about who is syrian, to really shut the door, you can change the title from syrian popes to popes originated from syria or something ..and that will shut everyone, but at the same time readers will understand that those popes were syrians as it is so obvious, you need a reliable source that is written by a professor and issued by a university press, which is the strongest source available in Wikipedia, i looked :) and found this book written by a professor who has an Ohio University M.A., and a Ph.D. from Michigan State University and is a professor at the university of notre dam, the book is published by the University of Pennsylvania Press , i think you can add this reference and cut the way in the face of any POV http://books.google.nl/books?id=UpUi7DAWSX0C&pg=PA185#v=onepage&q&f=false --Attar-Aram syria (talk) 13:51, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
Hey I live in the netherlands so does he, maybe google is blanking the page in syria but its available in the netherlands and he can see it, i found other book too, Im gonna change the title of the section and Im gonna wright an entry so I can put the citations before the List, this way he cant delete, as for history, I only care about Syria so I study a lot about it, my grandfather had a huge library, he was a judge in aleppo and as a small child I used to drown my self in his book then i started to do personal effort, but my academic study is Law, Now I just want those people to leave the syrian subjects to Us, they should be stopped from trying to eliminate our history,,, if you noticed, when he first deleted the list he entered a summary for the reason : THEY ARE NOT ARABS !!!!! but who said the syrians are 100% arabs ?? as if we never had the discussion that took 3 days and as if he is not convinced in the genetic studies about syrians, yet he use genetic studies to prove Assyrian continuity, Im not gonna allow anyone to steal my history, I brag all the time (with my colleagues) about how syrians from Homs and hauran ruled rome (emperors alexander severos, philip the arab, Heliogabalus, the domna empresses) and a about syrians who ruled the Vatican, and Im not gonna let those people destroy the history of my country :)--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 05:04, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

assyrian[edit]

hey george, that was the easy part, the hard part is to stop rafy from vandalizing our article, i think we need the help of an administrator, now about assyria, the Çineköy inscription was written in Luwian and Phoenician, The Luwian inscription reads "Sura/i", the Phoenician translation reads ’ŠR or "Ashur". the greeks diverted that and used it to indicate assyria and the levant west of the Euphrates, then the romans defined syria as the area west of the euphrates--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 07:53, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

for me its the most convinsig etymology, syrian isnt derived from the syriac language or sect, it derived from the old assyrian empire, but please if you found any thing to contradict that dont hesitate to bring it up, after all we only want the truth about our history, and yea im a 25 yo law student from Aleppo currently studying in the Netherlands, so you got my gender right--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 07:57, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
hello, i have given facts that cant be denied, i have confidence that those dreamers cant debunk my claims, yet i was thinking to ask administrators for protection, im just waiting for those dreamers to vandalize the article :P--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 23:15, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

info[edit]

hey george, i asked for RfC, because kathovo ended the conversation and said that he want to ask for an RfC, what will happen now, is the RfC a good idea or will it be filled by nationalistic assyrians ??--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 12:00, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

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Greek churches[edit]

Hello, I wanted to ask you if you agree with this article Antiochian Greeks. Its claiming that all the followers of Greek churches in Syria are ethnic Greeks. I have deleted the absurdities and left them a message Talk:Antiochian_Greeks#Is_that_a_serious_article_.21. I need to know your point of view.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 06:05, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, those claims are based on this Blog [3]. Im sure that editor will edit war and make a lot of trouble. So it going to be a long discussion that will require great effort and I would appreciate your input and advice!.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 07:12, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Well, I was overwhelmed by the IP on that page. The natural border will be the Aegean Sea. But as always it was the Taurus mountains. Borders were only opened during the Hellenistic and Roman period but Greek migration were mainly during the Hellenistic period. In DNA studies we are all Mediterraneans and close to Greeks and Cyproites but also to Turks and Iranians. We are connected but not really descendants from them. It is known that Syria received Greek migrants who formed a ruling elite and melted with the local population. However, the Church has nothing to do with Greekness, it was the church of the state and the followers of that Church are Greeks in Liturgical sense.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 21:18, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

1860 war[edit]

Hi George, I reverted your move of the article 1860 Mount Lebanon civil war because the name of the war was an issue that we discussed at length at the talk page of that article. Not too late to participate in the discussion of course. Your argument that this is what the war was called by newspapers at the time is something to consider. Please explain further at the talk page. Cheers, --Al Ameer (talk) 04:58, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Update: I started a draft page for the massacre article at User:Al Ameer son/1860 Damascus massacre. So far, I have just finished the background section. Hopefully, it won't take me too long to finish the rest of the article. Please feel free to edit and add to the draft page. As of now, the main source I've been using is Fawaz, but other sources, preferably secondary sources, need to be added before the article is moved to mainspace. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:04, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

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December 2015[edit]

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ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

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Persecution[edit]

Hey George, what do you think of this section I just deleted after it was inserted today. Please, your participation in the discussion will be needed Talk:Christianity_in_Syria#Persecution. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:59, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Hey friend[edit]

I've been reading your Wiki articles for a bit (I rarely comment in general) and I was always impressed by your level of knowledge and interesting character. Hope you're doing well today! GoulGoul1 (talk) 01:16, 24 January 2017 (UTC) Honestly, your positions come as a total surprise to me. I would have thought that with the situation in Syria, more Orthodox would adopt some weird positions. (Like this Nassim Taleb guy) Is this the case ? I assume you're Syrian, right ?GoulGoul1 (talk) 00:44, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Sorry[edit]

If I gave you the impression of being hostile(?), that's not remotely the impression I wanted to give. My post had nothing to do with our discussion in Arabs, I was just stating that your general positions, when taken into the modern day context, were surprising. Being in any way related to Arabs/Arabic seems to not be a popular thing, some people tend to take naive and insulting positions in general. Anyway, I was just complimenting you. Take care.GoulGoul1 (talk) 02:44, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Honestly...[edit]

While I'm not remotely a fan of the Zionist groups, I wish us (Levantine Arabs) could be as effective as they are. I feel like, after the insult of post France/English mandates, we just keep regressing as a people (sectarianism, hating people based on geo political borders less than a century, etc.) and we keep destroying our own land. The general situation is pretty shitty in general.

I hope I'll live long enough to see something constructive being done, for once. Btw, in regards of your pan Islamist remarks, Islamists in general wouldn't be wasting time on a Wiki article for Arabism. (I think Bitton is a Berber) They always saw these movements as a Western product and the victims of Arab nationalist regimes were mainly Islamists, ironically enough. There's a reason why some countries in the MENA always opposed these movements.GoulGoul1 (talk) 17:31, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

George Al-Shami I agree with several of your remarks. But when I was talking about hatred, I was specifically referring to hatred between Levantine populations. The worst is when you explain to these people how their thinking process is wrong with several arguments they dismiss it and continue in their bad ways. In regards of the Crusades, from what I heard, they don't exactly have a good reputation among the Orthodox, don't they ? As far as Muslims are concerned, they didn't mind having alliances with some Catholic groups to counter other muslim groups. (The Fatimids come to my mind) As far as I'm concerned, the fact that some people from Western Europe were easily able to establish states along our coastline and that they were able to stay for that long is a troublesome thought. GoulGoul1 (talk) 14:57, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Question in regards of identity...[edit]

Hey, I was wondering, what is your opinion in regards of the whole identity part ? Don't you have a feeling that throughout the whole crisis of the 20 th century, we have been wrong all the time ? I'm going to give you some background on my thought process, I used to be a pan Arabist, pushing this whole "we are all one" idea, and even after receiving attacks, (On several points) I used to do some circus moves to somehow justify my approach, explaining why I was true in my beliefs, trying to downplay some points that my opponents were trying to bring. The thing is, this made me think more than anything else, and I began to take a critical approach towards my positions. With time, I evoled to some more moderate form which could somehow accomodate our whole people, whether Christians or anything else. The reality is that we have a lot of broken trusts and sectarianism (at least in Lebanon), is and has always been fully active. I feel like even after all that has happened, when I see some extremists like Marlo who still like to push this pan Arab idea, it's as if they never learned anything from what previously happened. They will somehow respond to you that the West "divided" the MENA region but in truth, pan Arabism has always been an ambiguous prroject by itself. (See daily threads about who is or isn't an Arab) The truth is that some Arabists mistake two things, Islamic history and Arabic one. They're somehow tied together, especially post Islamically, but some pan Arabists think in terms of "lost glory" and "lost unity" when in reality what happened these days were Islamic history specifically. These Caliphates were the ultimate expression of Arabian civilization, but to somehow make them as a basis of "unity" among modern day nationalistic discourse is wrong on so many levels. Anyway, I could talk all day about this, but this brings me to my point : Why do we have to chose between one extreme form (Some Kataeb type Phoenicianism) or another Pan Arab unity (à la Nasser or whatever else) ? The MENA has too many diverse populations and conflicting ideologies and identities depending of the area, why are we so obsessed to chase after a carrot on a stick ? Shouldn't we, inhabitants of the Levant, be proud to have both pre Islamic Semitic heritage and the post Islamic one ? Why this obsession to always want to check what North Africans or what Egyptians or whatever any other peoples are doing ? Why can't we be masters in our own land and with our own interests ? We satisfy every criteria to be a fully independent, and I have no interest to re enter into a neo Caliphate. (or to fantasize on an ideal pre Islamic past) We are what we are today, and this is the most important part.

Opinion ?GoulGoul1 (talk) 00:26, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Identity2[edit]

I’m happy to meet someone like you. Just a few comments, you’re absolutely right in regards of the inability of the countries to work together. Even when they were supposedly liberating Palestine from Zionist militias they never had 100 % full cooperation. If anything, it made the case of Palestine even worse. Anyway, we should also add in there that not all Mid East countries were necessarily motivated by this ideology. Oil countries were always hostile in general to it. (and they somehow ironically dominate this institution today) And lol at Gaddafi, I always considered him and called him a clown.

What do you consider to be the main groups of populations? It’s hard today to differentiate who is what, considering that these identities (assuming they ever had any sense in the way we speak of it today) went away and people pretty much considered their religious identity the prime one. (At least, that’s what I always believed, maybe I’m wrong) Also, just some random stuff, one part that I always found irritating was the idea that Arabians were always newcomers to the area. One of my early obsessions was with the Peninsula, and I read lots of books like Shahid, Retso, Eph’al , Lammens (Yeah, I know, he’s a Mandate propagandist but it was still interesting stuff lol), etc. Even more surprising, I always assumed that the pre Islamic Arab expansion was somehow limited to the Syrian/Jordanian area (For the Levant, that is), but somehow, there was some of them in what is modern day Lebanon when they came into contact with the Greeks : "But these were not the only “Arabians” whom Alexander encountered. Before he could advance on Gaza he had had to undertake a seven-month siege of the Phoenician city of Tyre. Needing wood to build a siege-tower, he sent expeditions to Mount Lebanon to cut cedars. But peasants from among the Arabians (arabum agrestes) attacked the Macedonians, killing 30 of them, and taking others prisoner. 57 Leaving the siege operations in the hands of two of his generals, Alexander immediately took a force of cavalry, light armed troops and archers and “marched towards Arabia to the mountain called Antilibanus. Part of this country he captured, part he received in surrender, and in ten days returned to Sidon.”58 This “Arabia” is a very different one from that between Palestine and Egypt. It is situated in the Anti-Lebanon in roughly the same area in which people whom the Assyrians called “Arabians” had been grazing their flocks in the eighth century BC.59 But that was four hundred years earlier and the “Arabians” that Alexander encountered were agrestes, “peasants, rustics,” rather than pastoralists. It is not clear whether they were supporting the Phoenicians against Alexander, or were simply objecting to the felling of the cedars, and no doubt acquiring some useful weapons in the process. Eratosthenes (c. 285–194 BC), writing in the following century,60 described both the Lebanon and the Anti-Lebanon, the mountainous regions on either side of the Massyas Plain (the modern Beqāʿ Valley), as being “held by Ituraeans and Arabians, all of whom are malefactors (κακοῦργοι), but the people in the plains are farmers”.61 He also describes the foothills of the Anti-Lebanon overlooking the region of Damascus, as “the Arabian mountains”.62 While this confirms the presence of Arabians in this area, it unfortunately tells us little else."

https://www.academia.edu/4593009/Arabians_Arabias_and_the_Greeks_Contact_and_Perceptions

Btw, just to be clear, I’m not nec. a SSNP supporter, I’m not sure what Saadeh thought when he wanted to include areas like Cyprus or the Sinai or some stuff of this kind. (If this is what you meant by Greater Syria) I’m just someone who wants at least Western Syrians to be united, Palestine is fucked at this point, although we should at least help the refugees in our countries to integrate or something of this sort, we can’t keep promising them something which we can’t predict ourselves. In general, I don’t think any political project should be the monopole of one particular group. I have sympathies with the SSNP because we have colliding interests, but if someone else can achieve the same goal of taking out post Mandate borders in our area, I’m all for it. But it seems like the general rule today, at the international scene, is to keep the borders fixed and permanent in the way they were established in post WW2. I’m not exactly sure why, maybe it has something to do with the devastating wars of territory, so they’re trying to stop this from happening again. Anyway, we don’t need to wait for geo political reasons, we can easily start the process by changing the mentality of the people in our homes. (Especially the moronic Lebs who treat Syrian refugees like crap, failing to realize that we were all Syrians before the Mandate, at least, in the geographical sense)

Sorry if I take time to respond, I have school and work to do. Have a good day. GoulGoul1 (talk) 03:15, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Long answer coming[edit]

I don’t see how it’s hard to ascertain them. I’m not interested in identity politics of other MENA peoples, at least, it’s none of my concern or responsibility to tell other populations who they should be. I’m interested in my region first and foremost and this is where I will put my efforts in. What happens thousands of km away should stay thousands of km away. Now, obviously, most Levant populations tend to be close to each, at least on the ancestral/genetical part. You can’t say that this person is Aramean, or Canaanite or something of this sort since most of these identities (assuming they ever existed in the first place) died off and you can’t simply base yourself on haplogroups to ascertain “haha, you’re an Aramean” or “Haha, you’re from Ugarit” etc. I kid you not, some moronic Lebs think that J1=Arab and that J1 presence in Lebanon is small. (Both of these affirmations are very very wrong) They also think that them being J2 means they’re related to Southern Europeans but somehow, their closest genetic population (The Syrians) they didn’t mention it. (The self-hate is real) Obviously, also, the effect of time made its presence in the area and Muslims populations tend to be more Arabian shifted for example. (Which I assume, for the most part, was post Islamically but that I’m not sure. There was lots of Syrian/Arabian contact pre Islamically, for example Nabat/Palmyrean and other stuff) There’s also Anatolian influence from the Turks and some other stuff. But that’s nothing too dramatic or anything of this sort. You can also describe the Levant as a continuum, but again, I don’t think it’s anything too dramatic. For the most part we’re easily understandable and the culture is highly similar. (Think of traditional dances, food et all) What divides the Levant is, in my opinion, the obsession of religious identity. This is why Lebanon exists, not because we form a nation of our own. (You know this already) In general, I would say we’re the product of all of this, we’re Semitic in our heritage regardless of the period (And I feel proud to know that my land is where several Semitic kingdoms sprung from, whether Canaanite, Aramean, Arab and others) and Arabism obviously shaped how we are today (For the better and the worse) I feel like the two extremes in Lebanon (Phoenicianism and pan Arabism) are delusional movements in how they view history and how they treat identity. We are a product of time and we should be happy of how we are today, I cannot regret something which I never had in the first place. If anything, I prefer the unity of Levantine populations under the banner of Levantine Arabic over a highly divided and fragmented region in linguistic and territorial terms. (Chieftains controlling this and that, etc.)

“With regards to nationalities, yes, under Islamic rule religion permeated everything (and unfortunately to our shock and horror, it still does) and ethnicity was considered almost negligent. But, of course to be fair, nationalism as we know it today is a construct that emanated after the culmination of the Napoleon wars in 1815.” Yeah, at the same time, I’d be curious to know how if there was any sense of strong identity in let’s say, 4-5 th century Damascus. (Something like the Israelites) I just want to be clear about something. I’m not the type who will ever lift a flag or sing patriotic songs or anything of this sort. My goal, in general, is to give the right direction to where we, as a people, should be heading to. I guess I see myself as a ‘fixer’ first and foremost.

“I'm pretty sure you know that in the 1850s Christian men from Beirut and Damascus helped create a new form of identity, that of Syrian nationalism” Yeah, well I don’t know too much about it, what I know about it is indirect through my readings of Leb history. “Your comment about hoping that Western Syrians would work together is funny, but unfortunately true. :( “ It’s honestly disgusting when you think about it. In less than a century, people hate based on these geo political limits. (We also hate each other in general, so…) This just goes to show how easily some people can be controlled and told what to do. Anyway, my point in all of this is don’t base yourself on retards on the internet about what your average day Leb thinks about Syrians. Syrians are at home in Lebanon, they should not feel any shame or anything of this sort. Where I think the friction comes (putting aside the Phoencianist morons) is because of economic reasons. It’s quite understandable, for example, that a Lebanese father is not happy about the refugee situation because jobs are limited and he has to help his own family, but the refugees also have to live in a good way. So this is understandable, from this perspective. Btw, I found this book, : https://books.google.com/books?id=nr9Ivt-pc0IC&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+Origins+of+Syrian+Nationhood:+Histories,+Pioneers+and+Identity&hl=fr&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=The%20Origins%20of%20Syrian%20Nationhood%3A%20Histories%2C%20Pioneers%20and%20Identity&f=false I only read it in part through what Google offers, I’ll try to pick it up at my Uni. Seems really neat.

Also, I thought you might find this article on identity interesting : https://oup.silverchair-cdn.com/oup/backfile/Content_public/Journal/ehr/115/462/10.1093_ehr_115.462.513/1/513.pdf?Expires=1486855061&Signature=GkOQrpJd6DNl2vtVTB9TRUXWDr6f1n~BBfLDp7f7OSTZL88lVddbR3JEAkhkpoYdtb1XSSr1kz5qSDzZbdtSU0NA-tWChfPtX6ErOcZ-d-24KHpHYo7TumUE4yiaiQx-WTMSRTzgs3WKjYNpNGv9GzljKobvp2Ozjh9vqexfQvIM1HyhuGcfBHhCVZAsT20~pL77PSisCLk9yARpRWIpkM5U26Wjqbaov1d3~G3u4BczbxcEygeZCE~TZpiHNyt0OEPb~OJIAEd~oYJOmjgmgb8rWkoBKaAe638oYCl5cOEvy6Oo4DY1we2iDTUmeZHIULKqHirsA-MGUYW81x21Kg__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIUCZBIA4LVPAVW3Q

It’s on another people, but it’s worth the read. Lastly, I wrote this very quick so I didn't exactly put all the thoughts I wish I would. Hope it's ok how I wrote it.GoulGoul1 (talk) 23:19, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Hey[edit]

How are you doing these days ? I'm a bit depressed over what is going in Syria. Hope your family (If you still have people left there) are safe !GoulGoul1 (talk) 15:51, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Coups...[edit]

There was already coups in its early ind. backed by the CIA no ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1949_Syrian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

In regards of the present situation, I'm going to be honest, I back Assad. Not because I think he's perfect or angelic but because the rebels aren't liberators but filled with fanatics who are ready to sell their land just to get the throne. There's no liberty when you prostitute yourself and lose your principles. (Wanting Israel to enter and depose gov., wanting to give Alexandretta to Turkey, Saudi stooges, etc.) Honestly, I have no idea how the situation will be but at this point, the war isn't going to give anything and it's better to end it as soon as possible so that Syrians can return to some sort of normal life. Anyway, this is my opinion on this.

Also, my depression isn't exactly just about the war but the aftermatch. It seems like we're going nowhere and just turning in circles. And it's not like this was recent but it has been happening for decades at this point. Failure after failure seems to be the mantra. I'm not sure what exactly is happening and I'm still trying to understand the situation by reading lots of stuff but one thing which is quite clear : The situation affected my ideals and changed me as a person. At this point, I just care about the well being of ALL Syrians, we have done enough for others, it's time for us to be masters of our destinies.

By the way, are you fluent in French ?GoulGoul1 (talk) 15:49, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Syrian christians[edit]

Hey George, what do you think of this. I think its totally uncyclopedic not to mention unsourced.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 00:19, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Email[edit]

Did you not receive my last email ?GoulGoul1 (talk) 05:20, 23 August 2017 (UTC)