User talk:Georgejdorner

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HEAR YE! HEAR YE! (or not)

Given recent developments in the Did You Know nomination process, I have drastically scaled back (and possibly ended) my involvement in Wikipedia. I have enjoyed crafting catchy hooks while engaging with other editors' suggestions for improvement. However, the present trend seems to be a dumbing down and demystifying of compelling hooks by a nominator, in favor of substituting pedestrian labels of dubious accuracy by random editors. The result runs exactly counter to my purpose in submitting DYK nominations—to draw in as many readers as possible to read some accurately written history.

The difference in reader response is starkly illustrated by checking back on my page views. I have 37 DYKs posted on the Statistics Page for having drawn over 5,000 page views; exactly zero of those featured an outside editor's hook. Enough said.


/User page: The brag wall
/User page: Dab notices
/User page: The Bugle
/Archive: Aces
/Archive: List of WWI aces
/Archive: Wiki editing
/Archive: General bumf

Contents

Wikipedia email re Newspapers.com signup[edit]

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Hello, Georgejdorner. Please check your email; you've got mail!
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HazelAB (talk) 14:34, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

66) DYK for Operation Maeng Da[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:03, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Frank M. Hume DYK[edit]

Hello. I appreciate you taking the time to review my DYK nomination. After receiving your edits, I did go back and clarify your third point and also linked to other articles (as mentioned in your fourth point). There is no longer an orphan tag. I added a little bit to the lead paragraph (your first point). I haven't touched the cites because, as you said in your second bullet point, "the present cites do satisfy the criteria." What else must I do to pass the DYK requirements? Mchuedem (talk) 15:24, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Project Waterpump at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; see step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 17:33, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

67) DYK for Tchepone Operation[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:02, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Forward air control operations during the Korean War[edit]

Hi, I've left some comments at Template:Did you know nominations/Forward air control operations during the Korean War. The bad news is there are some issues with the hooks you suggested; the good news I've made two alternative suggestions, one of which could be approved straight away if you're happy with it. Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:36, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

68) DYK for Donald Nichols (spy)[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:02, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

69) DYK for Forward air control operations during the Korean War[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

70) DYK for Operation Junction City Jr.[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Campaign 139[edit]

Well, did you create it in userspace or draft space here onwiki? If so, you're usually expected to move it into mainspace when it's ready so the history reflects the changes made before that move (which is required by the GFDL license). If you just copied and pasted it into mainspace from there, at least put a link from the talk page to wherever you worked on it.

If you did it in workspace off-wiki (i.e., Word or a text editor on your own computer), well, just put a note to that effect on the talk page, I guess. Daniel Case (talk) 19:22, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I agree it gets confusing; I've almost bounced a few noms for being too old until I either realized that it was moved or someone else pointed it out to me. That's why one of the options in the nomination template is "moved" ... when I see that in the nom, I know now to check the logs for the page. In any event, the edit summary will usually automatically indicate that the page was moved, and from what to what, along with the reason it prompts you for when you move it.
Anyway, WP:MOVE is pretty clear about this: "You should never just move a page by cutting all the text out of one page, and pasting it into a new one; old revisions, notes, and attributions are much harder to keep track of if you do that." If you can give me the location of the draft, I can probably merge the histories (hey, years ago I got caught in one of these myself ... it happens). Daniel Case (talk) 21:27, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
Actually, any time I move an article out of workspace, I delete the draft so I can begin another article there. I suppose one could scrounge through Edit history and transplant my rough draft revisions for a given rough draft onto Edit history of the new article, but to what purpose? So that someone can revert my finished article to an incomplete state? That is just plain senseless.
Of course, if I do use the Move tab, I move ALL the edit histories lingering attached to that workspace, not just one.
And if the purpose is to allow other editors to share in my creating an article, we are verging on a Naked Came the Stranger situation.
Also, as you have pointed out, if my workspace were in Word, there would be no Edit history. So, if the creative founding edit history is so darned important, why aren't such imports disallowed from offline?
Sorry, but in this instance, I believe we are observing a WikiBlunder.Georgejdorner (talk) 23:45, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
OK, I looked at your contribs and realized how you were doing this—you were using a dedicated page in your userspace, one you use and reuse for other articles as necessary, rather than one with the article's specific title (as most people tend to). I think, per WP:CWW, we can satisfy the license terms with a note on the article talk page, nothing more. Daniel Case (talk) 04:09, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Well, okay, although I can't see how the pre-publication Edit history of an article can be of any use to anyone.Georgejdorner (talk) 02:20, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

71) DYK for Project Waterpump[edit]

Allen3 talk 00:07, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

72) DYK for Campaign 139[edit]

Coffee // have a cup // beans // 00:02, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

73) DYK for Operation Counterpunch[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:02, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

74) DYK for Project Copper[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Found and Lost (opera)[edit]

Georgejdorner, it looks like the QPQ was actually posted eight minutes before you posted your review, probably after you'd checked for the QPQ but while you were still working on your write-up. All that's left for you to do is add the final tick if the QPQ is adequate. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:20, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

WikiChevrons[edit]

WikiChevrons.png The WikiChevrons
Thank you for your tireless contributions to the Military History project, especially in the neglected area of the Laotian Civil War. Your hard work is greatly appreciated! Zanhe (talk) 21:11, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

75) DYK for Operation Desert Rat[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

76) DYK for Operation Phiboonpol[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

77) DYK for The Chinese Road[edit]

Coffee // have a cup // beans // 00:01, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

78) DYK for Operation Phoutah[edit]

Coffee // have a cup // beans // 12:01, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Antoine Raab[edit]

I can't take much credit there, my French is very poor. Google translate helps a lot. Sadly, very little has been written about him in German and the German Wikipedia has no article on Antoine Raab at all. Thanks for fixing all my typos in the article! Calistemon (talk) 07:13, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Fritz Beckhardt[edit]

I had a look at the German article and it suffers from the problem most article suffer there, a complete lack of inline citations. It pretty much states what the English articles says except of course with no reference as to where the information is from. As to the images here is a translation of the ones used there but not here. Just delete them out of this message once you picked which ones you would like to use. His story has some parallels with that of Hugo Gutmann. One thing I noticed as that we don't have a Category:German Jewish military personal or Category:German Jewish military personnel of World War I.

One more thing. No citation but it states on the German Wikipedia that Beckhardt was one of only 18 to recive the House Order of Hohenzollern during the First World War and that, in a publication from 1936 his name and the name of Edmund Nathanael were ommited from the list of recipients because they both were Jewish. The latter has no article on the German Wikipedia at all. Calistemon (talk) 22:57, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
Sorry for the late reply but I have been off-line for the last few days, having moved inter state. The book "Der Jude mit dem Hakenkreuz" confirms that Nathanael was Jewish as well and that both were two of only 18 to receive the above mentioned order. I don't own the book but this google book review (in German) confirms it. Calistemon (talk) 23:04, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
Nathanael doesn't have a German article and the Beckhardt one has no inline citations, so probably not. Calistemon (talk) 23:20, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
I found some German news articles on Beckhardt that allowed me to add some more sourced content. On Nathanael I'm drawing an almost complete blank on German language coverage but I have been able to reliably establish that he was Jewish, too. Calistemon (talk) 07:13, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
Multi refing done. Nothing much on Nathanael, he is not even listed here. Calistemon (talk) 21:57, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
According to this German website Nathanael is listed missing in action after having been shot down. I don't know how reliable the site is. Calistemon (talk) 22:51, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
The sources I found insisted that after his Albatros caught fire, its wings fell off in midair. I might add, that comes from reliable sources. The German site may insist he is MIA because his remains were not recovered.Georgejdorner (talk) 03:15, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
I think this is pretty much it. All the German sources I could find state the same facts, with small variations. I think most of the information comes from his grandsons book. Nothing more to add from me at this stage. Calistemon (talk) 21:53, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
I think the glory is all yours. I would review it for you but, having made a small contribution, it would probably be against the rules. I'm currently working on List of German Jewish military personnel of World War I, inspired by the two above mentioned pilots. Calistemon (talk) 06:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

I just run a DYK check on Edmund Nathanael to see if it was fit for nomination and it came up as not 5x expanded in the last five days. I checked the history and its gone from 2,575 to 10,824 since your expansion began on the 23rd, which is only 4x. Can you "squeeze" out another 2,500 bytes? Calistemon (talk) 12:30, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

I used the "DYK check" tool listed on the left hand side under tools. It still comes up as red when I checked it just now. Calistemon (talk) 21:11, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
By far the most of the expansion was done by you so I think you should nominate it by yourself. My contribution was really very small. Give it a go but I think anybody using the tool will probably block your nomination. Calistemon (talk) 01:00, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
No worries, put my name down. If it gets rejected we go from there. Have you thought of a good hook yet? Calistemon (talk) 01:40, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
Source 10 does not explicitly say that it is the House Order of Hohenzollern but it describes the order, including the inscription "Vom Fels zum Meer" ("From the rock to the Ocean"). It should pass. What about: ...that Edmund Nathanael was one of two German Jews awarded the House Order of Hohenzollern who had their names omitted from a list published during the Nazi era? The source does not state that the Nazis had anything to do with the omission, just that it happened in 1936. Calistemon (talk) 03:26, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
Your suggested hook is ok, just the word "winners" seems a bit wrong, makes it sound like it was a sporting competition. Could we use the word awardees or award-winners? Calistemon (talk) 21:51, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
The picture shouldn't be a drama, the nomination template got and image and caption line. Calistemon (talk) 22:22, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
Image added to Template:Did you know nominations/Edmund Nathanael. Calistemon (talk) 22:38, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, a pleasure. Lets sit and wait. Calistemon (talk) 22:47, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
I just came across another one of your articles, Willi Rosenstein, yet another German Jewish flying ace of WWI. Got anymore up your sleeve? They could soon become their own category. Göring's former wing man, too, according to the article. Calistemon (talk) 00:03, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

79) DYK for Operation Xieng Dong[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

80) DYK for Operation Snake Eyes[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:02, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

81) DYK for Operation Bedrock (Laos)[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:07, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

82) DYK for Operation Silver Buckle[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:01, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

DYK stats[edit]

Hi, George. Please consider using https://tools.wmflabs.org/dykstats/ for the stats page, as this will make it more consistent with the rest of the hooks. Cheers, Jolly Ω Janner 03:23, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Another thing I've found to be wary of is that WP:Recent additions lists the prep sets at the time and date that they were removed from the Main Page, not the date is was posted, so use the time frame immediately before that. Jolly Ω Janner 03:30, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Operation Sayasila[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Operation Sayasila at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! 3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 02:34, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

83) DYK for Operation Sourisak Montry VIII[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

84) DYK for Operation Sayasila[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Phou Khao Kham[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Phou Khao Kham at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 21:06, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

  • Pinging again for assistance. Thanks. Jolly Ω Janner 20:14, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

85) DYK for Campaign 74B[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Edmund Nathanael[edit]

Yes, I saw, but did you know that the next update in the Queue includes one of your hooks and two of mine? Three out of eight between us. Calistemon (talk) 03:25, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

DYK, in the early days, used to be extremely simple and straight froward. It has become quite bureaucratic in many ways. I have to be in the right mood to take on the approval process and argue over minute details. It's a bit like filling in a tax return and arguing with the tax department. Calistemon (talk) 04:05, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I think you put that rather well, Calistemon... ;-) And hi to George, hope you're well! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:35, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

86) DYK for Campaign Z[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:02, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

87) DYK for Operation Maharat[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

88) DYK for Operation Phalat[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:02, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

89) DYK for Operation Strength[edit]

Coffee // have a cup // beans // 12:01, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

90) DYK for Edmund Nathanael[edit]

Coffee // have a cup // beans // 12:01, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

German Jewish fighter pilots[edit]

I was more asking whether you can think of anymore German Jewish fighter aces to add to German Jewish military personnel of World War I? I would like to expand the list further with notable personnel. Can you think of anybody else that you have come across during your work? By the way, shame that the picture didn't get picked for the DYK I think it was better than the picture of the old building that went on the main page instead. Calistemon (talk) 04:14, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

I came upon the following article in English: Jewish knights of the air. I have to give it a good read and see if I can add a few names, like Berthold Guthmann and Friedrich Rüdenberg, provided they meet notability guidelines. The picture on top of this article (in German) is also quite interesting. I wonder if enough sources could be combined to create an article on German Jewish World War I flying aces. I don't have much time right now to look into it. Calistemon (talk) 05:44, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
Guthmann appears to have been a gunner in Schutzstaffel 3, was wounded in action and killed in Auschwitz. There is actually a picture of him on commons. Calistemon (talk) 10:05, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
I somehow forgot about that connection. Fixed up his name and provided a reference in the article. I think both Guthmann and Rüdenberg should meet notability requirements. I have to look for some German sources on the two. I posted a question on the Schutzstaffel article talk page in regards to the usage of the term in World War I, before the Nazis adopted it for the SS. The German Wikipedia article has a hat note to inform readers that it can also refer to the WWI escort squadron while here the pre-Nazi use seems completely ignored. Do your sources have enough information to create a stub article, Schusta, similar to Schlasta? With enough content there is the possibility of an excellent DYK, may I add. I've created a redirect to Luftstreitkräfte for now. Calistemon (talk) 01:14, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
No worries, I will look into it further once I've got some time. Calistemon (talk) 01:57, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

91) DYK for Operation Fa Ngum[edit]

Materialscientist (talk) 01:20, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Hey[edit]

Sorry I got a little snarky at the Black Allan DYK review. We got where we needed to go, but I got a bit short-tempered and so felt an olive branch here was appropriate. Montanabw(talk) 23:17, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

92) DYK for Operation Maharat II[edit]

Coffee // have a cup // beans // 01:42, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

93) DYK for Operation Strength II[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:27, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

BoNM - Laos Hires.png The Laos Barnstar of National Merit
For your work creating articles on the Laotian Civil War. 3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 20:44, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

94) DYK for Operation Sinsay[edit]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:33, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

95) DYK for Operation Black Lion[edit]

Updated DYK query.svg On 7 April 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Operation Black Lion, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that King Sisavang Vatthana wanted Black Lion to attack Paksong? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Operation Black Lion. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

96) DYK for Operation Black Lion III[edit]

Updated DYK query.svg On 8 April 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Operation Black Lion III, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Operation Black Lion III was a land grab before the Secret War ended? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Operation Black Lion III. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:56, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

97) DYK for Operation Phou Phiang II[edit]

Updated DYK query.svg On 12 April 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Operation Phou Phiang II, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that over a dozen pre-teen soldiers served supply and communications duty during Operation Phou Phiang II? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Operation Phou Phiang II. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 12:02, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

98) DYK for Operation Phou Phiang III[edit]

Updated DYK query.svg On 14 April 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Operation Phou Phiang III, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Aardvarks struck the communists during Operation Phou Phiang III? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Operation Phou Phiang III. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Operation Phou Phiang III), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 12:42, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

99) DYK for Campaign 972[edit]

Updated DYK query.svg On 18 April 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Campaign 972, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Campaign 972 attacked Paksong 15 minutes after a ceasefire ended the Laotian Civil War? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Campaign 972. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Campaign 972), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 17:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Precious anniversary[edit]

Two years ago ...
Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg
flying aces
... you were recipient
no. 848 of Precious,
a prize of QAI!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:49, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

An award for a project I left in December 2013.... I guess it's true they don't miss you until you are gone. Or something.Georgejdorner (talk) 23:00, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

100) DYK for Unity (military operation)[edit]

Updated DYK query.svg On 19 June 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Unity (military operation), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Special Requirements led to Unity? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Unity (military operation). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Unity (military operation)), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Coffee // have a cup // beans // 12:02, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Asha Kreimer at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; see step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 21:56, 21 August 2016 (UTC)