User talk:Gniw

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Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --Lst27 (talk) 21:42, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Cangjie method[edit]

Thank you for making the Cangjie method article more informative. But there are some symbols that my browser doesn't show correctly. For example, in the table under "The short list of exceptions", the city radical doesn't show on my browser. All I see is a little square. How can I make it show up properly? ~Wang123 (Talk) 06:48, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Missing Characters[edit]

Hi Gniw,

I just realized something. I don't think the problem is that I don't have the font installed. When I copy the "square" representing the missing character from the article into MS Word, or into an input field of another browser window, then the character appears correctly. So I must have the correct font installed on my computer.
I think the problem lies in the web browser that I'm using. I just remembered a recent incident where my browser didn't properly show the IPA (international phonetic alphabet) symbols in the Hong Kong article page. At the time, I was corresponding with the user who inserted the IPA symbols into the article. That user fixed it by using something called an "IPA template". Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with HTML to understand how it works. From my understanding though, this only seems to be a problem with MSIE 6. When I try to view the article with Netscape 7.2, it works. But most other users wouldn't think of trying a different browser. And unfortunately, the population of MSIE users on the net is large enough for this to be a concern to you.
I hope this information helps you. I know you would want your work to be readable by the largest range of people possible.

~Wang123 (Talk) 11:11, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

A response to your comment[edit]

I've added a response to your comment in my talk page. Sorry for a 2 month delay. I haven't been very active on this site recently. Kowloonese 19:25, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

The word 係[edit]

As for the edit summary [1], I think the word was more usually used in written Chinese between the World Wars than today.. since vernacular Chinese which started to flourish in the late 1910s actually incorporated elements of different languages and dialects in its early stage of development. Kuo-yü was not in widespread use as today, and the way people wrote was influenced by the way they speak. Its usage is actually preserved to certain extent in written texts in Taiwan, but probably not the case in mainland China. — Instantnood 05:13, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks so much.. learnt something new. :-D In fact most of the texts I read containing this usage are old texts, or those published in Taiwan. — Instantnood 07:09, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi Gniw! (Wing)[edit]

Thanks for the greeting on my talk page. Guess we should start a category for the ex-IO crew, eh? :) Cheers, Madmagic 03:55, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Room vs. Soup (RE)[edit]

In some English dialects, if not most, the U sound in soup is pronounced closer to the German ü or Russian ю, than the Hebrew U sound. In fact, I don't know if there's an exact English equivalent to this sound, but the U in room sounds more 'flat'. Same with the U in ooze for instance. If you think it's really important though, maybe it's better to search for more relevant sounds, or ask an expert.

On an unrelated note, you might want to specify that the language used in your spelling of Wing is Persian and not Arabic. I stared at it wondering what the last letter was until I noticed the link said 'Persian'. Not really important though I guess.

Ynhockey 01:06, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I also noticed on your user page the frustration regarding the Bable system. I agree completely that it's inadequate, although it is for slightly different reasons than you. In any case, check Wikipedia talk:Babel (at the bottom) for a discussion, and add your input :)


I checked out the article, I must say that the language and wording is somewhat beyond my knowledge of Japanese. Besides, you're the one who's supposed to know Kanji, or at least the remote meaning of many of them ;). But even so, I translated the section titled 特徴, into someone that's probably coherent; although this part:
All major decisions in the municipality were made by a majority vote from the union representatives.
is somewhat improvised, since it doesn't say that the majority vote involved only representatives (but this is what I can logically derive from the text. Will do some research on the subject later and make farther edits.)

At one point I actually thought of lowering my Japanese 'level' to 1, but I can understand average Japanese speech for all it's worth and speak and write on an OK level, which would probably constitute as a 2. Reading is a bit problematic, you know, I wasn't raised with Kanji, learning them is a bit difficult. But I'm already at about 400-500 :).

Ynhockey 04:42, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


Wiki-i-love-you.png Here is a Wikihug because I noticed your stress level was so high; I hope whatever stress you're having fades soon. ♥♥purplefeltangel 21:35, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Ming Pao Daily News (Toronto)[edit]

Could you please not include a subheading for "Rivals" in the article, given that both of the rivals listed are already links within the body text? Wikipedia policy is quite explicit that we're not supposed to repeat links in that manner. Thanks. Bearcat 06:59, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Ah, okay, sorry...thought you did since you've done the majority of the editing on the article since the last time I removed it. No worries. (And I already removed it, so no need for you to do that.) Bearcat 07:07, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
The problem is that you can't characterize the Star's content as "extreme"; it's a point-of-view assertion (and not particularly a true one, either -- it's actually very much a "mushy middle" paper that seems further left because of what it gets compared to.) Bearcat 07:14, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Acacia Theatre Company[edit]

Hi, I've noticed that you have completed the merger on the above article. I had initiated the merger (i. e. placed the merge tags) and also initiated the discussion about merger, saying that I'd wait for comments till 22nd November before merging. The merge tags clearly indicate the place for discussing the issue. While I can appreciate your enthusiasm in merging, I'd also like you to be more circumspect in future and look at the discussion page(s) before acting on the merger. Kindly revert the changes so that there could be more participation on the discussion page. Thanks, --Gurubrahma 11:25, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi, thanks a ton!! I do accept that there is not much to be merged. However, I've been involved in around 30 mergers and sometimes the comments can be illuminating. For example, in this case, one may say Acacia Theatre should be retained as it is not a company (as in a LLC) as such, but only a drama troupe. Someone else may come back saying that the usage of company predates LLC and was used for drama troupes since the middle ages etc. Of the mergers I've been involved with, roughly 50% are closed without a discussion but in the other 50% lot of comments have come about. Regards, --Gurubrahma 05:40, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Proposal up for a vote[edit]

A new proposal on representation of Norse mythology names is now up for a vote. I'm letting you know because you commented on that page :) - Haukur Þorgeirsson 00:51, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

English and NPOV[edit]

Thanks for your comments on the Noah's Ark piece. If the opponents revert it again, I may next delete the preposterous "objections" by "scientists" and the replies to these. The whole section is concocted out of whole cloth, just as is the enforced dichotomy between atheist scientists (a lie) and spiritual Creationists.

By the way, your English is, of course, superb, but near the top of your user page for "none of which has anything to do with my job title." I might use "have" for "has." Technically, "anybody, anyone, nobody, no one " and so on are singular, but "none" is tricky. Your usage makes some sense, but Merriam Webster on line says: "pronoun, singular or plural in construction" for "none" so I would pluralize it according to the construction and for assimilability by the hoi polloi. We might say "none of them was here" but the Agatha Christie cinema (1945) (which I saw that year, when it was new) [2], based on ten little indians, is entitled "And Then There Were None." (The ten get killed one by one, as I recall). It is in your case a question of whether the grouping you refer to is regarded en masse or discretely. If en masse, then you are best off (in my opinion) the way you wrote it - the "none" refers to the group of items, from which you distance yourself. If discrete, I think the "have" is better, because you are counting off the items one by one. In any case, the average American (and, I'd wager, Brit) would consider the "has" stilted or giving pause. Or you could say "not any of which has..." Best regards, Carrionluggage 01:09, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Chinese Bible versions[edit]



Thank you for your contribution about Chinese Bible version. I have added the link for corresponding articles in Chinese Wikipedia in those articles. Also try writing other articles on other translations.

Note: I live in Mississauga, noce to meet you.

SYSS Mouse 05:34, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Re: Kung Kao Po[edit]

Are all the non-Cantonese speakers interested in knowing how to say a lot of Hong Kong-related terms in Cantonese? Definitely not. Even if some of them are interested in knowing about how to say something in Cantonese, can you expect all of them to know how to read those phonetic symbols? Of course not. So, there is not really a great demand for the Cantonese phonetic symbols, and that is exactly why there is no point to "flood" the first line in every article with three to four types of phonetic symbols for Cantonese like Instantnood always do. Especially when the formal name, like Kung Kao Po, is already a phonic translation from Cantonese, there is even more ridiculous and stupid for you to add several phonetic symbols for Cantonese that are serving the same purpose. A lot of people may want to come to the "real content" as soon as possible. But because they have to go through those three redundant types of symbols all the time before coming to the "real content". That is stupid.

Your analogy with the Hebrew-related articles does not make sense also. Such Hebrew terms are translated to English by phonic translations, but with several different spellings. A similar example in Cantonese would be "Kung Hei Fat Choi" and "Kung Hay Fat Choy", in which case both spellings should be include. But "Kung Kao Po" just have one official phonic translation. The case is completely different from that of the Hebrew-related articles. Don't force people to do some nonsense things that you come up with (for instance, deleting all the alternative romanizations of the Hebrew-related articles). If you want to do that, do it by yourself.

"Chinese people just do not value our own culture and heritage." Some Chinese people don't, but I do. You are overgeneralizing. (By the way, do you have the qualification to judge whether other Chinese people respect Chinese culture?) On top of that, what is the purpose for you to suddenly add this irrelevant sentence that does not follow from your previous paragraph? Do you mean it is a sign of unrespect to Chinese culture, just because we provide information about Cantonese pronunciation in a wiser way, and delete several symbols (while the symbols themselves are not Chinese characters)? That makes no sense at all. Think about it.

Well, if you want to insist adding things into the Kung Kao Po. Go ahead. Your edits may not necessarily be reverted. People may prefer allowing you to do something nonsense, rather than having an edit war with you.

-Alanmak 12:00, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Original message: This is sad. How can any English speaker know how to pronounce the name of the newspaper in Cantonese? Cantonese people of course knows how to pronounce the words; or do you provide Cantonese romanizations just for Cantonese people? Chinese people just do not value our own culture and heritage. Look at Hanukkah and Rosh Hashanah. Look at Kashrut. See how they all are romanizations. And they all have detailed romanizations in brackets that look just like the article titles. Look at their detailed romanizations in the parentheses. Try to remove their detailed romanisations, and see how other people might feel about your actions. The former two examples even have the detailed romanizations spelt exactly the same as the article titles, and the latter only differ by one letter; for "Kung Kao Po" at least the title of the newspaper is spelt very differently than the jyutping!—Gniw (Wing) 22:00, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Cantonese IPA[edit]

Re: /Criticism of Wikipedia, I guess the "normal IPA" you're referring to is something close to the S. L. Wong style [3] [4], which is in turn modified from IPA, and used by academics like M W Ho in teaching. Many dictionaries claim their systems to be IPA, but they're not truly IPA and were actually modified for convenience of readers. Wikipedia is written for everybody and I believe using the real set of IPA (with tone contours) would be more useful for most readers who have no training in any specific system for Cantonese. — Instantnood 17:53, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. The IPA symbols that I've added were based on Yale romanization#Cantonese, but I tend to omit the ː mark. I agree [k] and [kʰ] are phonemes with the English <g> and <k> respectively, but IMO on Wikipedia phonetic is more useful than phonemic, since phonemic is only useful for native speakers who are familiar with the symbols and the phonemes. (And by the way thanks for the friendly note on the endash. :-D ) — Instantnood 09:32, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
Hmm.. IPA is actually the most recommended since it's useful to all readers who have no understanding of any systems specific to certain languages. What do you think we can improve it so it's going to be less confusing and ambiguous? — Instantnood 18:54, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Ongoing discussion on "Kung Kao Po"[edit]

I changed the colour of the table in the Kung Kao Po article to white colour, because the smaller "inner" box - the box in which the phonetic symbols are placed - has a white background colour. The colour doesn't really matter. You may change it to a more fancy colour if you want to. The idea of making the table is perfectly fine for me.

I have been thinking about whether 粵拼 should be provided, in addition to the phonic translation "Kung Kao Po", during the past few hours. I think that the 粵拼 does help for a little bit. If we make a table aside, it is fine to put 粵拼 in it. I just don't want to "flood" the first line of every articles with a **** load of phonetic symbols before readers can really come to the "real" content. But that Instant. guy is opposing the idea of making a table, which shows several phonetic symbols, aside of the make content of the article. (But meanwhile, he was the one who proposed that idea at the early beginning, and he was the one who always blame people for "flooding" the articles.) Let's stop the edit war and try to work something out.

- Alanmak 08:31, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


Check out the Jesus article and edit it to keep it focused on Jesus and a biographical account of Him. Watch the Jesus page to keep it focused on Him. Thank you. Scifiintel 21:59, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


In fact there're only three words pronounced in this way. [5] [6] :-) — Instantnood 14:09, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Ending consonant[edit]

Hello Wing can you think of any language (preferably European) that the ending consonants are pronounced in similar ways as the 入聲s in Cantonese and other Chinese languages? Thanks. — Instantnood 16:15, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

But then in Korean when an ending consonant is followed by a null initial, it's linked to the next syllable, unlike Cantonese and other Chinese languages. Is there any example in European languages? The Hong Kong English article suggested Basel German, but I haven't found any material to support that yet. Btw, sort of following up, how can we improve the way Cantonese pronunciation guide can be presented in IPA? Thanks. — Instantnood 16:38, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm tryng to make sure the Basel German claim is correct, and if not, to provide another example. What about the aspirated and unaspirated divide in Cantonese.. is it like Danish, for instance? What can we do to improve the IPA pronunciation guide? — Instantnood 17:12, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
French is perhaps another exception, that voiceless consonants are not aspirated (see French phonology). — Instantnood 20:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Kung hei fat choi[edit]

Please kindly share with us at a move request discussion your observation from among the people in Toronto, and in other places in Ontario and Canada on the usage of this phrase. Thanks. — Instantnood 17:41, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

User categorisation[edit]

You were listed on the Wikipedia:Wikipedians by alma mater page. As part of the Wikipedia:User categorisation project, these lists are being replaced with user categories. If you would like to add yourself to the category that is replacing the page, please visit Category:Wikipedians by alma mater for instructions. --Cooksey 22:09, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Warm, sleepy and happy[edit]

Cat Nap.jpg

Hi Gniw! I was passing by and saw that your Wikistress was very high. So this is a warm, sleepy and happy cat to make you feel warm, sleepy and happy. I hope your stress levels drop soon! ➨ REDVERS 22:14, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


I read your discussion with James on his talk page. Is the dispute resolved? For the record, I can see merit to both sides of the argument, mostly because we're not really sure what's happened to the term "roman." -Vontafeijos 15:18, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Everything is fine re serif v.s roman. The discussion between Gniw and myself stemmed from semantic confusion, but we resolved that. :^) Arbo 03:53, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation in English[edit]

I've put back the released. It is not aspirated. The aspiration can be simply tested by putting our hand in front of mouth, and saying 貝 and 佩. The unaspirated 貝 is with no strong flow of air whlist 佩 is. If you test it with word 舌 (sit), 十 (sap) and 育 (yuk), it make no strong air flow like aspirated initial character 貝, 鐵, 奇 and so on after pronounced the plosive. I've also confirmed this in 粵音韻彙. (I think in t of sit in English is aspirated.) See also Aspiration (phonetics). HenryLi 05:09, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


Have you tested that the final plosive really gave your hand a strong flow of air as those at the beginning?

I found the aspiration (phonetics) with a note on English.

English voiceless stops are aspirated when they begin a stressed syllable, as in pen, ten, Ken, but this is not distinctive. That is, these consonants have unaspirated variants in other positions, such as word-finally or in an initial cluster with [s], as in spun, stun, skunk.

Word-finally is unapirated. See also English_language#Voicing_and_Aspiration.

You are right. I haven't learnt French. I only know the aspiration rule differs between English and French. For example, the Chinese translation 巴黎 of Paris matches the unaspirated P in beginning position in French.

Without good comparison, the section does not really helped neither to correct interpretation of the pronunciation nor to illustrate the different between actual sound of Cantonese and the perception from English speaker.

HenryLi 12:50, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


Responding to your post to my talk page (sorry for the delay; I was on vacation; and sorry if, as your user page suggests, I've missed you, for reasons I completely understand)---I agree with your change and your reversion. Thanks. Bentorr 23:29, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


I was confused, then, by your statement, "I don't think the kanji "忍" has the literal meaning of "concealed" at all." I took this to mean that you didn't think the character meant "concealed", and therefore 忍者 didn't mean "concealed person". Can you see how I could be confused by the apparent contradiction? I posted this here on your talk page, too, since you said you were unwatching the article. --nihon 04:13, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Re: Capitalisation[edit]

Thanks so much for your input. You may say I'm a little bit English-centric, but I'd say the French terms for its administrative divisions has entered English, and, to a certain extend, would follow the English rules. I agree it's understandable why the Hong Kong Government capitalises the term on its website. — Instantnood 22:08, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Do you know who these two guys are?[edit] --성혀니 10:16, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Those are tutors of tuition class, protraying themselves like pop idols in the ads. — Instantnood 08:32, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
I can't understand what you say. Because I'm not living on Hong Kong--성혀니 11:09, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
No, I don't know who these two guys are.—Gniw (Wing) 06:57, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

linguistic question[edit]

hello, could i ask u some questions concerning phonology? i am a complete phonetic idiot (indeed an idiot in almost everything), so i hope someone like u can give me some guides. An urgent question for me is: is it true that we can pronounce, say, the sound (or u may say phoneme) /b/ in four ways:

  1. unaspirated and unvoiced
  2. aspirated and voiced
  3. unaspirated and voiced
  4. aspirated and unvoiced

???--K.C. Tang 12:06, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I think ur explanation is clear enough. So much from u, thanks a lot! However, if my understanding is correct, "b" can be aspirated, as in the ancient Indo-European langauges, eg, Sanskrit (we can often see "bh" in Sanskrit transcription). So it seems that we can have voiced and aspirated "b". But then can we have a voiceless and unaspirated "b"? I wonder. --K.C. Tang 00:48, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
woo......thanks for your patient explanations! although i must admit that the more i know, the more i am confused. +_- --K.C. Tang 08:57, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
but which kind of Cantonese transliterations you prefer? --K.C. Tang 09:58, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
but every transliteration method claims to be IPA, so which one do u mean, u can show me? i hope not that kind with those arcane symbols of 53, 56... and yes, i don't think the Jyutping an ideal method, but i guess a reason y ppl prefer it is that we can check the Jyutping at [7], but are there any sites where we can check the IPA? i dun know. --K.C. Tang 02:41, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


As with other Wikipedia procedures, common sense applies first before what is written in the policy. I do not support the deletion of the entire article. Rather, I posted the {{notenglish}} tag on it in order to attract attention from Wikipedians with the necessary language skills to translate the article.

The translation does not need to be completed in 2 weeks; it only needs to be shown that someone is working to translate it. You can see examples of this in this section of the page. I agree that the information in the Chinese text section is useful, but it is not appropriate to have such a large section not in English in the English (language) Wikipedia. — J3ff 05:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Ame ni mo Makezu[edit]

Hello Gniw -- I had some belated comments on your edits, over on the Talk page. Any replies welcome! Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi 16:51, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikimedia Canada[edit]

Hi there! I'd like to invite you to explore Wikimedia Canada, and create a list of people interested in forming a local chapter for our nation. A local chapter will help promote and improve the organization, within our great nation. We'd also like to encourage everyone to suggest projects for our national chapter to participate in. Hope to see you there!--DarkEvil 02:25, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Image:First issue of Today Daily News.jpg[edit]

Gniw, I think there is no problem to tag the image with {{PD-self}} because this is not only for newspaper photograph, it covers some portion other than newspaper also. I have tagged with it. If you have any problem with this tag please let me know. Thank you, Shyam (T/C) 07:35, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I would love your help.[edit]

I know you are interested in christianity, and I recently started a new wiki over at wikicities which is on the subject of christianity. Christian Knowledge Base is the site.

The goal is to have a knowledgebase on christianity from a distinctly "C(hristian)POV" rather than the NPOV. It is not meant to be a mere Christian Encyclopedia, but to foster a real sense of community. I'd like to include things like current events, news, stories, and anything that would add to both an understanding of Christianity, but also its enjoyment. I'm looking for help to build a resource that could really enrich the lives of Christians.

I know you are busy but I am actively seeking new sysops/admins to help me build this site up, and I would be positively thrilled if you could contribute in any capacity whatsoever. nsandwich 05:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Establishment of The Wikimedia Hong Kong[edit]

Boshiamy is not pronunciation based[edit]

I've noticed your edit on Chinese input methods for computers. I'm a regular user of boshiamy, and i can assure you that it is entirely a structure based method. 嘸蝦米是形碼輸入法。(Boshiamy codes (long):"ovff cofu mn dez kmp lomf caur bp wyu . ", (short):"oek cox mn jn kmp tf cai bp wu . ") for example, to input 是 (not using short code), I decompose it into 日 一 止, and type in D E Z. In this process, I've never made use of the sound of 是 shi4. And to input 形, I decompose it into 幵 三(slanted), convert them into K M, and add P to it for the last stroke. I don't need to know that 形 is pronounced as xing2. And every user familiar with boshiamy has already forgotten the reason behind their association with letters. When I see 日, I type D without thinking, but certainly not 日 -> Day -> D, which is only for the very beginner. That's why boshiamy is not pronunciation based. - 14:01, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

How to enter Chinese characters by typing their equivalent english Words?[edit]

Hello, dear Gniw.

I have a question. In the article Chinese input methods for computers you wrote that "Yet some systems allow Chinese characters to be input by typing their equivalent English words."

I am very interested, what systems do, if I had such possibility in my computer, I would use Chinese characters to communicate with friends. Because I can understand mostly, but don't know any pronunciation, just can't type yet.

Thank you for any help.

Inyuki 18:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


I recently found that the Jesus article on Wikipedia is the first item that comes up when you search for "Jesus" on the world’s most widely used search engine, Google.

Please edit the Jesus article to make it an accurate and excellent representation of Him; also, please edit other languages versions of the Jesus article as they are lacking, and perhaps also edit Baidu's wiki Jesus article.

The Jesus article may be a person’s first impression of Jesus. It would be nice if their first impression was from a Christian or the Bible, but for so many in these new days it probably comes from the Internet. Watch the Jesus page to keep it focused on Him. Thanks a lot.

Also, watch out to follow Wikipedia's Policies and guidelines. It is especially hard for the Three-revert rule and the Neutral point of view policy to be followed because of the nature of the article, but please follow these policies along with citing sources so that the article does not get locked from editing and can't be improved further. Thanks again. Scifiintel 18:01, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


Hi, should the Wiktionary entry for this kanji be changed to reflect the Sino-Japanese pronunciation? Badagnani 18:05, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Isn't that fascinating? You're absolutely right; Cantonese (and often Korean) seem to preserve ancient pronunciations, as the consonant endings were changed over time in the Mandarin dialect (which is now the standard). As an example, the ancient Chinese flute yak () is now called yue. But in Korean and Cantonese it preserves the ancient consonant ending. Badagnani 08:35, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Regarding Wiktionary, I'd say go ahead and add those Sino-Japanese pronunciations (with examples, like I did) and that enriches everyone's knowledge. Badagnani 08:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Ci fan tuan[edit]

Hi, do you think Ci fan tuan should be put into the "Dim sum" and/or "Dumplings" categories? Badagnani 18:19, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

That's a nice way you add reference links to your discussion page posts. Isn't zongzi considered a dumpling? If so, probably ci fan tuan is one too, due to its being small and steamed. Badagnani 18:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for info. A dumpling, as defined by Wikipedia, is a small cooked ball of dough or doughy substance, sometimes wrapped and sometimes with a filling. I added "Dumplings" and "Dim sum" cats for ci fan tuan. But I wonder how it's cooked. The article doesn't say. I assume either steaming or boiling.

Yeah, I know what you mean about Wikipedia, but the information we're sharing is really invaluable. It's a kind of volunteer work for world knowledge, I think. And you have a lot of knowledge to share. It's a community, so there will always be some small conflicts, but we try to be reasonable and level-headed and add to one another's knowledge. That's the best case scenario, and it often works that way between editors, at least in the Asian cuisine articles I work on. Badagnani 22:08, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Serif[edit]

I had actually been going back and forth between Blackletter and Gothic alphabet (I didn't know Japanese gothic typeface existed, and it isn't listed on the disambig page. Should it be, perhaps?) for that link. It was mostly because of these lines that I did stick it as Blackletter:

"The blackletter must not be confused either with the genuinely Gothic alphabet or with the sans-serif typefaces that are also sometimes called Gothic." (from Serif)
"Blackletter typefaces for the Latin alphabet are sometimes referred to as "Gothic script"." (from Gothic alphabet)

I had understood Serif to mean that the name gothic has fallen out of use because it is incorrect, so it made sense to me that another script that specifically mentioned being confused with gothic would be the right link. However, I can definitely understand why you're suggesting Japanese gothic, and all things considered, I agree that it makes more sense, especially stylistically, since it is in fact sans-serif. I also hadn't been thinking of the "typography sources" as possibly referencing non-Latin alphabets, though that was probably silly.

As far as whether "Japanese" should be removed from the name or not, I think I'd have to agree with those who say it should stay. Since there's already confusion about what gothic script is or isn't with the Latin alphabet, the last thing we need is to add more confusion with another script entirely, even if it is also called gothic. At any rate, I'll go fix that link now. Thanks for pointing it out. -Bbik 04:41, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I stand corrected, Japanese gothic is/was listed on the disambig page, just way at the bottom where I managed to overlook it.
I would imagine no one I know knows anything about gothic in relation to fonts, much less in Japanese, but I highly doubt any of them think gothic originated anywhere but in Europe, at some point during the Middle Ages. For my part, I'd previously heard of gothic as a font name, but never thought anything of it, it was just one of many in a list of fonts I never used. Actually, if anything, I probably thought it was a serif font, as some sort of correlation to gothic cathedrals and all their points and extra bits. -Bbik 06:42, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Umlaut (diacritic)[edit]

Your log message is not very informative. Please explain your rationale.

I know the difference between an umlaut and a diaeresis. There pinyin ü describes the same kind of sound change as the German umlaut. What is your rationale for abusing the word "diaeresis", which is a totally different thing? Do you mean you consider the Finnish ü also a diaeresis?! Do you know what a diaeresis is? Maybe you should reread the article too. Or perhaps you should take out a dictionary and see what a diaeresis is, since Wikipedia articles are so untrustworthy.—Gniw (Wing) 19:28, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Please try to read my comment on the article’s talk page; I know it’s a mess and it’s hard to read. Sorry for the mess.
I know that in Finnish (and most other European languages), ä and ö are considered letters in their own rights and not accented letters (you might have known that if you checked my user page). But if you have to call the diacritic that is technically just part of the letter, you will have to call it an umlaut because that’s what it is. It is not a diaeresis.
You are confusing the symbol with its linguistic meaning. In modern Spanish, for example, the diaeresis mark normally does not represent a diaeresis in the phonological sense. Yet it's still called "diaeresis".
“Any other use is a diaresis” is wrong. I don’t know why you trust this part of the article so much, but this statement is false, and I have support from the Merridiam-Webster. Please do not use this article itself to prove your point; according to current Wikipedia practice, the part of the article you are using is lacking citations and I have reasonable grounds to say that what it says is false.
(For the sake of argument, let’s suppose that "any other use is a diaeresis". You said “By extension, the same word is used in languages that have borrowed the umlaut mark from German due to German cultural influence”. What does this mean? This means “indicating a more front or central articulation” (the 2003 Webster’s definition), which is precisely what the Mandarin pinyin ü is. Even according to your own reasoning, the pinyin ü has an umlaut, not a diaeresis.)—Gniw (Wing) 13:55, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
No, that's not what umlaut means. Popular dictionaries are not reliable sources for specialized linguistic terms. Look, the plain fact of the matter is that only German and languages that have been influenced by German use the word "umlaut". Everyone else call it "diaeresis" or "trema" (in English the three words are used). I have no idea what it's called in Chinese, but you can't justify the name "umlaut" on the grounds that its value in Chinese is analogous to the one it has in German -- it isn't. FilipeS 15:08, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't know what will convince you, but English of course calls it a diaeresis, because in English the diacritic is used to divide vowels, not to indicate a sound change.
It's also called "umlaut", sometimes.
In French it's the same situation. It's a tréma because it is used to divide vowels, not to indicate a sound change.
Not always.
It's very unfortunate that "everyone else" that matters (e.g., Finnish) don't consider the mark a diacritic but part of standalone letters. But it makes absolutely no sense to call them "diaereses". They are simply not. They don't serve the function of diaeresis.—Gniw (Wing) 16:49, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
See my comments in the talk page of the article. FilipeS 16:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)



Hello! I just wanted to give you a plate of cookies for being a Wikipedian. I hope your Wikistress gets better! I'm really sorry that you are feeling down about Wikipedia. Maybe some cookies can help! :) Peace and Wikilove, Neranei 23:24, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Appreciated your contributions to koga ryu[edit]

Your contributions to the koga ryu article are appreciated. Hope you come back to wikipedia perhaps under another name? User5802 05:32, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Today Daily News.jpg[edit]

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Whatever. You don't care about anything anyway.—Gniw (Wing) (talk) 00:21, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Celebrations for 2nd Anniversary of Wikimedia Hong Kong[edit]

Orphaned non-free image File:First issue of Today Daily News.jpg[edit]


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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Kelly hi! 16:53, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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