User talk:Gowron

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Welcome!  - UtherSRG (talk) 14:33, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

John Angelo Jackson, Plas-y-Brenin, Kangchenjunga, Yeti, Himalaya, Dragonslayer, Dyffryn Mymbyr, Pen-y-Gwryd, Llyn Cwmffynnon, Capel Curig, Ogwen Cottage, Frank Smythe, etc

Himalaya[edit]

You just made a empassioned speech for the article to be called Himalaya. Would you preceed it with * Support So that it gets counted in the poll for the move to take place. Thanks Lumos3 21:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello Lumos3 took your advice and actioned the request. I don't think it was a positive experience though, I wrote in detail what I researched and could add quickly to the discusion, it seems there are people who live for the argument only, unfortunately I got into it as well (not very proud of it and probably diminished the point), so I've stopped. The Survery looks as though its not going anywhere. I think somebody like yourself whos done a lot of work, could possibly strip out all the points made, contrast that with the data and What Wikipedia requires and present it. I think a neutral party should get involved, I guess I can live with "Himalayas" I just won't use it in articles. I'm sure this issue will rear its head again. (Gowron 11:00, 26 October 2006 (UTC))

Lloydia serotina ISBN[edit]

A quick question: do you know what is wrong with the ISBN you gave for the Robin Gwyndaf book? At the moment it is given as "ISBN 009552995-0-0", which is neither ISBN-10 nor ISBN-13. --Stemonitis 12:50, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


Your last edit on the flower was spot on, I've put a thankyou in your talk page. I'll see if I've made a mistake, the exact ISBN from the rear of the book is as follows, if there is still a problem i'll have a word with the publishers: ISBN 0-9552995-0-0. (Gowron 12:56, 11 November 2006 (UTC))

Looks like I transcribed it incorrectly. Is the problem fixed? (Gowron 12:59, 11 November 2006 (UTC))

Excellent — that looks a lot better. I still don't get any matches when following the link, but I suppose a local book from a small publisher may well not appear on such lists. It is at least a valid ISBN now. --Stemonitis 13:03, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
I've changed the reference section in Cwm Idwal to match the style you used in the Snowdon Lily. I'm going to move to that style of referencing for other articles as well. (Gowron 14:35, 11 November 2006 (UTC))

Nant Gwynant[edit]

Hi Gowron, Yes, you are right in your thinking, namely that whilst "nant" does not mean "valley" (but stream, brook, etc) in some cases the name has colloquially become synonymous with the valley through which it runs. A well-known example of this is "Nant Ffrancon" which is often taken to mean the valley itself (and is indeed named as such on the latest OS Explorer map). That's not to say that people don't also call it "the Nant Ffrancon pass" or "Dyffryn Nant Ffrancon" - they do.

But to move on to "Nant Gwynant". My latest OS Explorer map names the area between Llyn Gwynant & Llyn Dinas as "Nant Gwynant", but there is no mention of any "Afon Gwynant" (only Afon Glaslyn and its tributaries). The book "The Lakes of North Wales" by Jonah Jones states that "Nant Gwynant is a valley some 7 miles long" (i.e down to Beddgelert). It also says that "the old name for the vale was Nanhwynen or Nan-Hwynan". (Nan is probably "nant". "Hwynan" doesn't exist as a word today. Could be a name, I suppose.) The pronunciation is not dissimilar to "Gwynant". So either the area has taken its name from the lake (which seems unlikely given the "nant" in the name), or (much more likely) a stretch of the Afon Glaslyn which was formerly known as "Nant Hwynan" or "Nant Gwynant" or whatever (as your old map seems to confirm). The area is also called "the Gwynant Valley" and even "Dyffryn Gwynant".

In summary, the best answer is probably to refer to the true meaning of "nant", but also to refer to the fact that, like "Nant Ffrancon", the name has taken on a wider usage. Even though there is currently no Afon Gwynant, the origins of the name seem to imply that there probably was one of a similar name at one time. Hope I haven't confused the issue even more!

And by the way - I like your work on Dragonslayer !


Diolch yn fawr, Hogyn. Thanks for the information, I'm glad that somebody else is just a little confused, but I take your expalantion on "Nant Gwnant" as becoming the name for the valley, we could make a redirect from "Dyffryn Gwynant" to "Nant Gwynant", to please the purist. Yup Nant Ffrancon has become the name, my Mum (Mam) used to "go down the Nant Ffrancon" every morning to Menai Bridge, she also use to deliver the Post in Capel Curig when the Post office was closed for holidays (always in mid winter).

I worked on Dragonslayer, initially as an odd job man moving tons of gravel and cleaning Sir Ralph's and other artists pottiies in the cavaravns, moved onto assiting with the rope work (taught climbing when I was younger) when pulling the spear out of the waterfall as the artists and crew had to be made safe. I have photos of the castle and lots of other locations during the shoot. As a result I got onto the sets and given jobs during takes. It was a fabulous and funny time, I have never seen a farmer go from spitting mad to as charming a person as you would ever like to meet, when the accountant would come along and open the biggest wallet you've ever seen and hand over thousands of pound from petty cash, I would have done exaclty the same. All the shots done in Wales I was involved in, in some way or another. (Gowron 10:33, 12 November 2006 (UTC))

Castell y Gwynt[edit]

Nice as it would be if the image was of Castell y Gwynt in Glyder Fawr, unfortunately, as the photographer, I have to concede that it wasn't - simply because cloud was sitting on Castell y Gwynt and I had to go lower down the hill to photograph these stones. Velela 23:46, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, the left outcrop looks similar. Its a nicely taken shot though, its ok because I've got some shots to add. (Gowron 08:36, 13 November 2006 (UTC))

RE: Thank you[edit]

Thank you Mr. Smith - thought I was going to have to wade in as well.

No problem. I'm gonna keep an eye on the article and make improvements/suggestions where I can. ---J.S (t|c) 20:24, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

The chap whos making the fuss has a known track record for being aggressive. Moderate views asking for more information is a breath of fresh air. By the way I have just inadvertantly deleted the wrong text from the chap in the discussion. I thought I was editing this? Cheers anyway. (Gowron 20:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC))

Carefull with those <ref> tags. :) You caused half my talk page to disappear! Put them in <nowiki></nowiki> tags and they won't render on the talk page. I'm glad to see you guys work on getting citations into the article. Yeti is one of our more important articles. Have you though of joining the WikiProject Paranormal? ---J.S (t|c) 13:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh crumbs!, very sorry. All the ones that went in yesterday were done by me, I had to wade through the books to get them done. Your invitation is greatly appreciated, sadly I'm giving up on the Yeti article (unless people think I shouldn't?), I feel like I'm being persecuted again (not by you though) for having a differing (but inclusive) view, which I've come to from the literature and experience of the people who've been there. Now I'm sounding like a big head. (Gowron 11:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC))


Here's your sandbox[edit]

Hi, Gowron, does the half century make you feel any different? I've only just reviewed the article Yeti itself properly, and realized how much of the material and references come from you. Sorry about that, I know you pointed it out, but it doesn't seem to have penetrated my thick skull. Considering this, it may not be such a good idea to plan a whole article in a sandbox (=a personal draft page), as I hastily suggested; it would probably not end up as a "main article" on one particular aspect, which is a useful thing, but rather as a POV fork, an alternative Yeti article, which is a no-no. (Please click on POV fork to read the policy on those.)

The best thing would be if you could work on Yeti in the normal way, especially so as to benefit from J.S.'s helpfulness. Davkal's arguments about certain things being unclear are also useful, up to a point. I do see how much his reverts stress you out, though, and they're certainly an unfriendly and frustrating way to treat an inexperienced contributor, as you seem to be (although you're not technically "new"). Perhaps you might create a less stressful work situation by working some more on each of your paragraphs in a sandbox before posting it in the article (and inviting, as you say, "target practice"). It's a pity it has to be done like that, as you have a right to collaboration and a positive climate right at the article itself, but I suppose it might help in this case. You might want to invite J.S. to help with the drafting, and I'm sure Davkal, too, will be more helpful if the text you post is more finished. It's entirely up to you how you choose to work, but I hope you won't close yourself off too much from other editors. Anyway, here's your sandbox. I've put a suggestion for a revised paragraph on the history of the names in it. It's is full of questions, incompletenesses, and, probably, misunderstandings. Best wishes, Bishonen | talk 15:10, 19 November 2006 (UTC).

simplifying footnotes[edit]

Ok, I've added a second column to the footnotes (might not show-up on all browsers). The best thing to do is to reduce the redundant footnotes. You can actually reference a footnote from more then one spot in the article by following these guidelines. Basically, <ref name=example>{{citation}}</ref> and then latter on <ref name=example />. Both of those tags will have the same number. I've gone-ahead and done that with one of the references (#2) to show you how it looks. Replacing redundant references might be a bit of work, but it can make the actual code of the page a lot easier to navigate! ---J.S (T/C) 15:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Excellent tip! will definately take a look at what you've suggested and also thanks for going ahead and doubling up on the citations columns and implementing an example or two to work on. Cheers (Gowron 15:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC))

Re:kanchenjangha[edit]

Thanks for informing me abt your deletion. There is no need to be sorry for that! Actually, I was entering the Nepali name of the mountain but I forgot to introduce Nepali over there. The text is in Unicode. You might see it by changing view->encoding->unicode (utf-8) if you are using Internet explorer. Thanks.--Eukesh 23:23, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Carnedd Llywelyn (yet again!)[edit]

Annwyl Gowron, Tnx for your message. Only just got to see it as I've been away for a few days. I tend to agree and sympathise with the issue of unilateral reverts by a single User. I really don't want this Carnedd Llywelyn business to get personal, but it seems to me that one lone contributor is stubbornly refusing to listen to common sense with regard to the name of this mountain. Carnedd Llywelyn is at least as common in English written sources as "Carnedd Llewelyn" and the correct name means so much to the Welsh. Most of your references were relevant as the Welsh name has been disputed by certain people (from a certain country!). What difference does Llywelyn/Llewelyn make to the average English speaker in whatever country they happen to live? None at all, I imagine. I doubt if many people on the streets of Birmingham or London - let alone New York or Sidney - have even heard of the mountain, let alone know how to spell it! It's not just a question of "English usage" either. Most wikipedias in other languages (not Cymraeg, of course), unfortunately blindly copy and follow the spellings given on English wikipedia, thus the German and French wikipedias have Llewelyn based on what's said here.

I've kept away from the "debate" for a while as I've had just about enough of it - I don't think a certain party will ever be convinced and that the name should be changed now. However I'm afraid that if I do it myself it will only be reverted again. Do you or somebody else fancy doing it? Hwyl a diolch, Enaidmawr 20:59, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


Gowron, I've reread my comments on the CL talk page, and looking back on them, some of them were unnecessarily rude. For all sorts of reasons I was in a pretty bad mood on Wednesday evening, but it was unreasonable of me to take it out on people there, and I just wanted to apologize. I know we're all trying to get what's best for Wikipedia, even if we don't always agree what that is. — ras52 07:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Ras52, thanks for the dropping in the note, very much appreciated as I had been "worried" (probably not the right word) about further editing on CL. (Gowron 09:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC))

Image:50th-nm-tsjb-gb-nh-jaj.jpg listed for deletion[edit]

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Image permission problem with Image:Dyffrynmymbyr.jpg[edit]

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ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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