User talk:Harout72

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Sales updates[edit]

Hello :) For britney spears, does she not come under the older artists section? Sorry for making an edit without discussing it first though. Also in future would it ever be possible to separate records for singles/albums or would that just be inconvenient? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashthomson12345 (talkcontribs) 00:10, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi, I have a question. Why has the 160 million records by Janet been deleted when it was confirmed by Billboard? When editing, it says 'To ensure the highest level of fact checking and editorial control, this list sources sales figures to news organizations and highly regarded music industry related organizations such as MTV, VH1, Billboard and Rolling Stone.' And one more question. When are the sales by Lady Gaga and Katy Perry going to be updated? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrunzPOP (talkcontribs) 03:06, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

The List of best-selling music artists uses the sales claims that are actually closest to artists' available certified sales. This is stated at the end of the list's lead Note that this list uses claimed figures that are closest to artists' available certified units. Inflated claimed figures that meet the required certified units amount but are unrealistically high, are not used.. In the case of Janet Jackson whose certified sales are only 51 million, the 100 million claimed figures are the ones we should use. As for Katy Perry, we are currently waiting for higher claimed figures to be published by reliable sources. Lady Gaga's claimed figure doesn't yet need updating as her certified units are some 17 million units behind the listed claimed figure.--Harout72 (talk) 03:17, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi, how are you? Do you have info about Usher, Adele and Enrique Iglesias? Haven't these 3 artists sold enough by now to be placed in this list? Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrunzPOP (talkcontribs) 04:16, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Spice album certifications[edit]

Why others albums like Westlife (album) no have problem with Philippines, Malaysia, Hungary, Taiwan or Indonesia level-certifications???

Coolcoolmen16 (talk)

If there are no sources supporting the certification-levels, they should never be used. The album Let Go (Avril Lavigne album) that you are pointing out, should not have the certifications of those countries because the earliest certification levels we have for Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan and Indonesia are for 2005 which are posted at RIAJ Yearbook (see page 23). As for Hungary, we only have the certification levels for domestic releases, which are different from the levels for international repertoire.--Harout72 (talk) 03:41, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Gaga's certi doc[edit]

Hi Harout, can you link me to your document for Gaga's certifications? Would love to cross-check some data. —Indian:BIO [ ChitChat ] 14:14, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Sure, here it is.--Harout72 (talk) 16:22, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Chart Peaks in Alexandra Stan discography[edit]

Hi Harout, Im User:Cartoon network freak. Can you please explane me, why the italian chart peaks on the songs Lemonade, Cliche Hush Hush and All My People are catalogate as wrong? The Peaks are right in the Wiki-articles about the songs.

Italy's No.22 position posted at Cliche (Hush Hush) isn't in the source provided. In fact, the same goes to Italy's No. 22 posted at Lemonade, and No.46 posted at All My People. All chart peaks must be verifiable, so readers can check them.--Harout72 (talk) 17:14, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Peaks in Alexandra Stan discography[edit]

Hi Harout! May you can replace some rows like Canada or Australia, where Stan has only peaks for Mr. Saxobeat, with Countries like Romania or Japan, where her songs often peak? Merry Christmas! Cartoon Network Freak!:-) 09:53, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

I removed Canada and instead added Japan which has more peaks and it's also a much bigger music market. But Romania's peaks should be left out for now as they are not easily verifiable. Merry Christmas.--Harout72 (talk) 14:28, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Հայերեն Վիքիպեդիա[edit]

Բարև :) Մի հարց կարելի ա? Ինձ նենց հետաքրքիրա խի հայերեն Վիքիպեդիայում ակտիվ չեք? :) Էնտեղ ձեր նման մասնակիցների կարիք շատ կա~ ( — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:02, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Մի գուցե ապագայում կմասնակցեմ, բայց հիմա ունեցածս ժամանակը միայն այստեղ կարող եմ տրամադրել.--Harout72 (talk) 17:10, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Cartoon network freak[edit]

Is Soc Forta an official single by Alexandra Stan, so I could include it on her discography? I've seen it on iTunes:-) User:Cartoon network freak 22:25, 02 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, if it's an official single, you can include it in the singles table. But please provide the source for it right next to the song, so it is verifiable. Is that a non-album single? I can't see it here.--Harout72 (talk) 22:05, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

"With" vs "featuring"[edit]

What's the difference? (talk) 02:27, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

You should ask yourself that question instead of edit warring. The cover clearly states "Featuring".--Harout72 (talk) 02:37, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
Harout72, the 3RR complaint has been closed with a warning to you. If you continue to revert while making no effort to get a talk page consensus you may be blocked. EdJohnston (talk) 00:50, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
@EdJohnston:, I'm curious, I the IP reverts without making any effort to discuss on the talk page, are you going to take the same action as you would against me?--Harout72 (talk) 01:33, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm suggesting that you begin the discussion, if you continue to believe that only 'featuring' is correct. If the IP continues to revert without joining the discussion then you may have a point. EdJohnston (talk) 05:26, 12 January 2015 (UTC)


Sorry! source for his 60 million records is

second part of text in the middle. :) --8Sirlo6 (talk) 22:14, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Japan Billboard hot 100[edit]

I've found some chart peaks on (direct link here) for the singles Cliche (Hush Hush) and All My People by Romanian recording artist Alexandra Stan in the Japan Billboard Hot 100. I really don't know if these peaks are right. Cliche (Hush Hush)'s peak there is #11. Maybe she won because of this a award on the 27th Japan Gold Disc Award in 2013. Can U Help Me! If the link to allmusic will not load, go to the homepage, search Alexandra Stan and click Awards.:-) --Cartoon network freak 9:49, 08 February 2015 (UTC)

I replaced the previous source with allmusic and added all the peaks that were not listed.--Harout72 (talk) 16:29, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Taylor Swift Records Claim[edit]

Hey, sorry for bothering you in your talk page... I just wondered if you saw my update at Talk:List_of_best-selling_music_artists#140_Million_records_claim. Neither you nor Indian:BIO answered. What do you think? You can answer there if you would like.
Thank you, דיידרים (talk) 00:22, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi, yes I took a look at it, it really doesn't change anything honestly. We'll just have to wait for a better source.--Harout72 (talk) 02:27, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
You've put an extreme amount of effort in gathering data, and even answering my questions. This award is long overdue for you in my opinion. Bobtinin (talk) 04:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I appreciate that.--Harout72 (talk) 05:12, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Video chart peaks[edit]

Hi Harout, as UK's OCC has updated their database with all the charts accessible (including the video chart which started in 1994 and which is why the 1st 2 albums released earlier have lower peaks), so would you think it's OK to add the chart peaks in the video albums column (with each peak referenced of course).

I included the chart peaks in the US, which are correct but atm I don't have the links or files to reference them, so US can be added later on. Thanks! Uncleangelo (talk) 18:30, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it's OK to add Video chart peaks as long as they are sourced.--Harout72 (talk) 18:44, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! Uncleangelo (talk) 18:30, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Talk:List of best-selling music artists[edit]

Is it possible to condense the talk headers? They take up over two screens worth of space on my decent-size laptop. —George8211 / T 22:18, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm afraid the bottom two boxes should not be condensed as they contain important information about the way the list is operated. The rest are already condensed, I'm not sure if they can be condensed further.--Harout72 (talk) 22:38, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your answer. I'm just worried that no-one'll read any of it because it's so long. —George8211 / T 22:44, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
I know, it's a little long but the information posted on there seems to have minimized the unnecessary number of questions that were being asked before.--Harout72 (talk) 22:48, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Ok it doesn't sound like there's anything we can do. It reminds me of when {{Archives}} had a merge nomination, which seriously impacted WT:USRD. —George8211 / T 22:53, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Justin Timberlake & Ricky Martin[edit]

Hi Harout! Since I know you're keeping archives of artists' certified sales, do you happen to have of those two? Can you tell me how much certified sales they have and with how much in non-certified can they be listed? Thank you. — Tomíca(T2ME) 15:56, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi, I have Ricky Martin's certified sales only, his total available certified sales are 28.6 million. Since he's begun charting in 1991, for the List of best-selling music artists he needs 48% certified sales for his claims. With the 28.6 million certified units, he could be listed with 59.6 million claim, but our list starts at 75 million. I haven't gone over Timberlake's certified sales, but I would if there already are claimed figures that are 75 million or over.--Harout72 (talk) 16:52, 28 March 2015 (UTC)


"FourFiveSeconds" was released in January 2015, thus your count for the Italian "platinum" certification in the list is wrong. — Tom(T2ME) 16:55, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

You're right about the "FourFiveSeconds" having been released in January 2015, but until February 1, 2015, FIMI's certification levels were Gold=15,000, Platinum=30,000. All titles released after February 1, 2015 are certified for sales of Gold=25,000, Platinum=50,000. The Platinum for "FourFiveSeconds", would be 50,000 units only if FIMI applies the newer certification-levels to even titles that were released before February 1, 2015, but that's a rare practice by certifying agencies.--Harout72 (talk) 17:04, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

"Para Ti" Magazine[edit]

"Para Ti" Magazine is from the editorial "Argentine Televisa", Televisa is the most realiable sources in Latin America. For something logic, The 1997 edition is not complete full view, but the preview said in spanish: doble platino en la Argentina con 140.000 unidades. Is not easy found the sales from 80's or 90's albums from countries like Argentine in internet, that source said the exact sales. Hope you change again. Coolcoolmen16 (talk) 15:45, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Give Me Your Everything[edit]

Hello Harout!

Should this Alexandra Stan-related article be deleted or mergered into an another article? I just can't find enough information for it, and it looks like a stub:-) °Cartoon network Freak° 10:46, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Since it's nothing notable, it should be deleted.--Harout72 (talk) 16:22, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Platinum award for Get Back (ASAP)[edit]

Hello Harout! Altough there isn't a certification listed on the FIMI website for Get Back (ASAP), I am 100% sure that the single was certified platinum in Italy for domestical sales exceeding 60.000 shipments. There are also too much articles on the web, that are telling about this victory. See for example this [1]

Thx a lot, °Cartoon network freak (talk)° 6:57 , 14 April (UTC)

Baltimora Redirect[edit]

Jimmy McShane was Baltimora, all of the persons listed on the album covers were session personnel.Citadel48 (talk) 01:02, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

McShane wasn't Baltimora, he was merely the frontman of the project. That doesn't make Baltimora, McShane.--Harout72 (talk) 01:04, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

The album sleves present him as a solo project, as do the performances. Almost all foreign wikipedias with pages on Baltimora/Jimmy McShane refer too the act as a solo project, not a multi-person musical ensemble.Citadel48 (talk) 01:06, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

You need to familiarize yourself with Baltimora project. McShane was only one part of the act. There are others involved too.--Harout72 (talk) 01:09, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Of course there were others, but you may as well call Silver Pozzoli a band. Was he? no, because Silver Pozzoli was a solo musician that traveled and recorded with a ensemble. Unofficially, he was a "band", officially, he was a one man solo act. Same with Baltimora, I have researched Jimmy McShane and the supposed band extensively, and have found no evidence too support that they were a multi-person musical ensemble. Just because they played on the albums doesn't mean they were a band. There are no videos of all six men performing together, same with most one man solo acts such a CC Catch, who only had a in-studio ensemble, thus forcing her too perform with non studio personnel during performances. Dire Straits, an English band, always performed with the full band, as did many others. So why did not Baltimora? And besides, there is much too suggest Baltimora was simply McShane's stage name.Citadel48 (talk) 01:19, 22 April 2015 (UTC) Well, please try and find the sources that you believe prove it's a band, and I will gather my sources. Then I believe we should ask a neutral (not in terms of conflict, there is none, but in views) person too review them and see which is more reliable.Citadel48 (talk) 01:29, 22 April 2015 (UTC) My apologies on the undiscussed revisions. I carried them out as evidence suggests it was actually his stage name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Citadel48 (talkcontribs) 02:37, 22 April 2015 (UTC) Citadel48 (talk) 02:39, 22 April 2015 (UTC) If it was just one front man, then why even have a band at all? The sources I have are much more detailed, and much more reliable than the ones you have provided. I have myself studied all of the members of the supposed "band", and they are all session musicians. There was no band.Citadel48 (talk) 02:44, 22 April 2015 (UTC) May I carry out the revision & re-direct?Citadel48 (talk) 02:52, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm afraid not. You do not have my consensus.--Harout72 (talk) 02:55, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

May you define you're definition of the difference between project & band? Thank you.Citadel48 (talk) 03:05, 22 April 2015 (UTC) If you define project as a musical ensemble that doesn't perform together, why not include the 15+ backing vocalists, keyboardists, & guitarists on Baltimora's members list? Why not include the keyboardist, drummer, and backing vocalists on the list of members of Milli Vanilli? After all, they weren't even singing, yet they are called a "project." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Citadel48 (talkcontribs) 03:14, 22 April 2015 (UTC) There is not one source referring too Baltimora as a project, but there are sources indicating it was a band (unreliable sources, record charts etc). Then there are sources stating it was a solo act, which are reliable (biographical information, personnel centered research). I myself have researched the members, as stated before, and almost none have been members of a band or project; they are all temporary session musicians. Just like Milli Vanilli, he likley wasn't singing, and this was likely just a façade, just like Den Harrow, Michael Bedford, etc.Citadel48 (talk) 03:30, 22 April 2015 (UTC) Billboard is not a reliable source, as it only documents chart positions & record sales. Everything you have said is either supported by a unreliable source, or is an assumption. In what position are you too judge it as a musical project without even posessing reliable sources or even a source at all?Citadel48 (talk) 03:51, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Billboard is as reliable as sources get. If you have doubts, post it at WP:RSN and ask the community's opinion rather than labeling one of the most reliable sources as unreliable. My explanations at your talk page are not based on assumptions, they're based on sources and common sense.--Harout72 (talk) 05:13, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

What type of common sense suggested too you that it was a musical project? What sources say it's a musical project? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Citadel48 (talkcontribs) 06:21, 22 April 2015 (UTC) And how is some billboard "one of the most reliable sources"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Citadel48 (talkcontribs) 06:31, 22 April 2015 (UTC) On it states "McShane was a solo singer who recorded under the name of 'Baltimora.'" & in Nick Tavelski's book it denotes that Baltimora wa shis stage name, not a group name. The sources you have stating it's a group are unreliable.Citadel48 (talk) 06:39, 22 April 2015 (UTC) So you finally admit they are studio musicians "Studio musicians are not part of the main team"?Citadel48 (talk) 21:24, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

First, you need to learn how to separate your conversations from each other when leaving repeated futile messages on people's talk pages. Right now, all your messages are connected to each other, it's a complete mess. Also you need to read what people are saying to you, instead of typing only what you want to say. That said, had you carefully read everything I said to you, you'd know that I never even once discussed anything about studio musicians.--Harout72 (talk) 21:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

You are the one with incorrect assumptions, you assume they weren't members, you have no sources saying they weren't just like you have none saying it's a project, and neither do have musical accreditation or proper expertise. I have sources, such as: [2][3]

You're providing me a scan of the album which clearly states the names of the studio musicians, it doesn't say anything about those names being part of the main team, you can again ask WP:Third opinion. The only names that should be included are the names of the producer and the lyricist, we currently have those two. And wikipedia cannot be used as a source to prove anything, read that up.--Harout72 (talk) 22:06, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

I reverted you're edit as it itself was incorrect, it was supposed to list certifications of all countries, not just Canada. You cannot just choose things because you feel like; you do so if you have Reliable sources.

And don't you threaten me, you yourself lack adequate sources.

Listen, first sign your posts, second, I suggest that you start paying attention to what sources say. That said, where do you see that this source which you have reverted to says anything about Living in the Background having gone Platinum or even sold one million copies of the album. The source talks about the single "Tarzan Boy".--Harout72 (talk) 03:18, 24 April 2015 (UTC)


I suggest you read up on Wikipedia:IAR — Preceding unsigned comment added by Citadel48 (talkcontribs) 20:24, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

And I suggest that you stop disrupting the wikipedia. Or I will report you at WP:ANI.--Harout72 (talk) 20:27, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

You are the one disrupting, as you lack sources for you're claim that Baltimora was a project.Citadel48 (talk) 20:52, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Your edits for redirecting Baltimora to Jimmy McShane aren't being reverted because it's a project, they are being reverted because sources clearly state it's a band, therefore, it should not be joined with McShane's page. Other editors have also commented and disagreed with. So with all that said, yes you are disrupting.--Harout72 (talk) 21:04, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

You said it was a project.Citadel48 (talk) 21:10, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

I didn't say it's a project, I said it might help you to view Baltimora as a project, I said it's a band. That still doesn't justify your repeated attempts of redirecting the page to Jimmy McShane, especially when others pointed out that it's band too and should remain separate, as it is now.--Harout72 (talk) 21:17, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Then why was it's lineup changed so often? Give me at least one band with over 4 members that is represented in it's videos, performances, & record sleeves by it's "frontman."Citadel48 (talk) 03:09, 10 May 2015 (UTC)


Hi. Why did you revert the edition? That is the right order! --Jbaranao (talk) 14:42, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Oh, now I see, you were right! I am sorry. It's confusing that the default order of the list is by claimed. I was looking at the order of the table itself, assuming it is by certified. Sorry --Jbaranao (talk) 15:40, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

French chart position for Eros Ramazzotti's "Perfetto"[edit]

For the French albums chart one could say there is three different sources, all giving different results.

On Syndicat National de l'Edition Phonographique (SNEP) website there are two charts, one that lists all album sales - both physical and digital sales - as well as one that only lists the physical sales. On the combined chart "Perfetto" is at number 12, on physical only sales chart it is at number 15. For some reason the charts on SNEP website leave out the compilation albums which were some years ago added to the main chart. The charts published on the Pure Charts/Charts In France-website however have the compilation albums included on the chart, and that chart is listed as the "Classement officiel des ventes d'albums en France" (Official chart of album sales in France). It's compiled by GFK Music for SNEP and is the official chart. The "Pure Charts by Charts in France"-website is published in cooperation with Société des auteurs, compositeurs et éditeurs de musique (SACEM) and SNEP, which makes one wonder why SNEP have different charts on their website which only differs by their chart missing all the various artists-compilations. The charts on Les Charts-website uses the official albums charts, i.e. the one published on the Charts In France-website, as does Billboard and other that publish the charts. On that chart Ramazzotti's "Perfetto" debuts this week at #16, which should be the one used in the discography here.

Kai81 (talk) 16:22, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

OK I'll take your word for it.--Harout72 (talk) 17:16, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Barbra Streisand's album sales and record sales[edit]

The same news agencies had been publishing 140 million albums for Barbra ( ) "Streisand has sold more than 140 million albums worldwide during her singing caree",if you used 145 million record fo Barbra,it means she only sold 5 million sales for singles? It's inpossible,Barbra sold at least 15 million in US alone(for 60s and 70s, Gold or P cer for 1 million or 2 million sales),you shouldn't mix album sales and record sales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skkywill (talkcontribs) 04:27, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Sources sometimes use the term Albums instead of Records, but they all mean to speak of overall records sales, not just albums sales. While lot of the sources in 2013 used the term Albums when speaking of Streisand's total sales, there were others that used the term Records including Times of Oman, The Times of Israel. Even the 240 million figure is sometimes published by some as Albums including The Washington Post. But they all talk about the overall total sales.--Harout72 (talk) 14:34, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Alexandra Stan discography[edit]

According to Hit Parade Italia, Stan has more Chart-peaks in Italy. Check this out: (Cartoon network freak) 15:32, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 7 June[edit]

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Certified sales[edit]

Hello Harout. I see you've been doing lots of maintenance on List of best-selling music artists and have documents of certified sales. Do you have documents for Demi Lovato and/or Katy Perry? It would be useful for their discography articles. Snuggums (talk / edits) 03:48, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

I have detailed certified sales for Katy Perry, here it is.--Harout72 (talk) 03:59, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you :) Snuggums (talk / edits) 04:03, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


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Hello, Harout72. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Funkatastic.
Message added 12:41, 13 July 2015 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Callanecc (talkcontribslogs) 12:41, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

4 Minutes[edit]

Harout, Madonna's Japanese certification do you have a direct link for it? I think you updated the best-selling artist page for Madonna. —Indian:BIO [ ChitChat ] 06:38, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Yeap, it was posted on the month of June.--Harout72 (talk) 13:02, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Beyonce's Sales Update[edit]

It has been confirmed even on Beyonce's Wikipedia page that she has sold over 114 millon records. For the past 2-3 years ( or maybe even longer ) you have left it in the 70 millon mark. Even after her fifth album was realeased in December 2013 the number was never changed. So can you please answer why you have updated Taylor Swift's numbers various times, but have left Beyonce's exactly the same which in the year 2015 is false ?

Heartblaster18 (talk) 17:46, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
If you're referring to the List of best-selling music artists, then you should read the lead of the list, which clearly explains that artists listed or to be listed need certain amount of certified sales required based on the first year of their charting.--Harout72 (talk) 18:09, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

PROMUSICAE certification award for Cola Song[edit]

"Cola Song" (a song by Romanian singer-songwriter Inna released mid 2014) was a commercial success in Europe and became a certification award by PROMUSICAE. But was it certified Gold (like in the article "JBalvin discography"), Platinum (like in the article "Inna discography") or 2x Platinum (like in the article "Cola Song")? All articles link to "Top 100 Streaming - Semana 29: Del 14.07.2014 Al 20.07.2014" (in Spanish). PROMUSICAE. Retrieved July 24, 2014.  But in that week, there's no listed certification for "Cola Song". Can you help me?

Cartoon network freak (talk) 07:43, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

That song seems to have been certified only Platinum in Spain. See SEMANA 01: del 29.12.2014 al 04.01.2015.--Harout72 (talk) 17:07, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Beyonce Record Sales[edit]

Why haven't Beyonce record sales been updated? She has sold 118mil records but it has her at 75mil records. Triple8991 (talk) 11:01, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Michael Bolton to the best-selling artists list[edit]

Harout... I'm embarrassed to bring this topic to the public talk page of the list but since a lot of artists has been kick out from the list such as Spice Girls, motley crue, scorpions. Is it possible to bring michael bolton to the list since he's one of my favorite singer.

We can use this source ( for his 75m-records and you also said his 38 million certification is quite enough to support 75 million records.

I need your consideration. thanks.. Politsi (talk) 07:48, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Politsi, we've talked about this already, actually I think more than once.--Harout72 (talk) 13:03, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Taylor Swift at List of best-selling music artists[edit]

Hi, i'm sorry for being disruptive, however I have found certifications for taylor. Philippines 9x platinum-Fearless (135,000)

Austria (30,000) Fearless-gold IKYWT-gold 1989-platinum — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashthomson12345 (talkcontribs) 10:45, 19 September 2015 (UTC) SWIFT 100,000 SHAKE IT OFF-platinum Blank space-gold WANEGBT-gold 100,000 Red-gold Speak Now-gold

SWI-90,000 BS-gold IKYWT-plat SIO-plat 1989-gold

Also can you retotal the UK certs I'm getting 5.5m — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashthomson12345 (talkcontribs) 11:10, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you read my post carefully at Talk:List of best-selling music artists, but in order for a certain music market to be added, it needs to have at least 100,000 certified units. Therefore, some markets are still left out including:
  • Austria (total of which is 45,000 units). [Fearless=Gold (15,000 units), "I Knew You Were Trouble"=Gold (15,000 units), 1989=Platinum (15,000 units)].
  • Italy (total of which is 60,000). ["We Are Never Getting..."=Gold (15,000 units), "Shake It Off"=Platinum (30,000 units), "Blank Space"=Gold (15,000 units)]. See Italy's earlier levels here.
  • Brazil (total of which is 40,000 units). [Speak Now=Gold (20,000 units), Red=Gold (20,000 units)]. See Brazil's certification levels here for all periods.
  • Switzerland (total=85,000 units). [1989=Gold (10,000 units), "I Knew You Were Trouble"=Platinum (30,000 units), "Shake It Off"=Platinum (30,000 units), "Blank Space"=Gold (15,000 units)]. See Swiss certification-levels here.
As for Philippines' 9x Platinum, we'll add it when it appears here. The UK's total seems to be correct on my document.--Harout72 (talk) 15:02, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Spice (album)[edit]

OK, I see what you mean. But considering that there is no such country named Holland, and that name obviously used wrongly instead of the Netherlands, which is a real country while the article also refers to the MegaCharts, which is national and not restricted to the Holland region, why not simply correct the error? Fnorp (talk) 13:37, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

It says Dutch Charts for the peaks.--Harout72 (talk) 01:13, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
Ehm ok.... And how is that an answer to my question? Fnorp (talk) 04:25, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
You are asking whether Holland should be replaced with The Netherlands, correct?. Well, the tables have Dutch peaks for chart positions and they say, Dutch Albums Charts. Where do you see it say Holland"?--Harout72 (talk) 13:06, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
At the very exact spot where I removed it before I alphabetically replaced it with Netherlands, under Certifications. Fnorp (talk) 16:35, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
I corrected it. My apologies for the confusion. I was under the impression that you added it and not removed Holland and replaced it with Netherlands. I should have looked at your edit more carefully.--Harout72 (talk) 01:32, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. Fnorp (talk) 06:31, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Sources vs. truth and usefulness[edit]

I have made over 250,000 edits to Wikipedia since 2002. I wrote some of its policies. The falacious idea that the presence or absence of sources is more important than whether information is relevant or true is one of the three major reasons why, like the vast majority of people who have ever contributed to Wikipedia, I no longer do so on a regular basis. Because the English Wikipedia loses most of its good contributors due to three fundamental flaws in its polices and practices it stopped improving seven or eight years ago, but it is a waste of time to hope that these flaws will ever be fixed now. (talk) 03:13, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:GfK Entertainment (logo).png[edit]


Thanks for uploading File:GfK Entertainment (logo).png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:46, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

No Mercy[edit]

Hello Harout. I notice on No Mercy (pop band), you are currently in breach of WP:3RR by having made four reverts within a 24-hour period. These are [4], [5], [6] and [7]. This can actually get you blocked because it is not reverting vandalism. Perrsonally I do not speak French so I have no idea whether the translation is correct or not but in your case I would recommend self-reverting and then inviting the other party (User:Hopehoppy) to discuss it on the talkpage. If he doesn't show up after so long then by all means revert back to your version without the translation. Thanks. 54321Mark (talk) 17:27, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Give Me Your Everything[edit]

Hi there! May you can review Give Me Your Everything against the GA criteria? All the best and thanks in advance. Face-smile.svg Cartoon network freak (talk) 14:05, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:30, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Happy Holidays![edit]

The sun1.jpg Happy Holidays!
Hi, Harout72! Have a happy and safe season, and a blessed new year!
Holiday cheers, --Discographer (talk) 01:00, 25 December 2015 (UTC)


Hey bud. You seemed to have added to Carey's total certifications tally without updating her Australian cert numbers?--PeterGriffinTalk2Me 20:38, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing it to my attention, I corrected it.--Harout72 (talk) 22:15, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
All I Want for Christmas Is You has now been certified triple-platinum in Australia. Not sure if you included that in the tally. Cheers.--PeterGriffinTalk2Me 12:39, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
I just updated it.--Harout72 (talk) 17:12, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Harout![edit]

Charles R. Knight New Years's Card.jpg
Godt Nytaar! 1916.jpg
(Unknown artist, Norway, 1916)
Thanks very much, I wish Happy New Year to you as well :).--Harout72 (talk) 16:33, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Happy New Year![edit]

Happy New Year?.jpg Happy New Year!
There are things that are sometimes left undone and there are things that can be left sometimes unsaid. There are things that can be sometimes left unsaid, but wishing someone like you can’t ever be left, so I take this moment to wish you and your loved ones a joyous and wonderful New Year. Cartoon network freak (talk) 13:47, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, Happy New Year.--Harout72 (talk) 16:34, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

David Guetta discography[edit]

My reliable source was other Wikipedia pages. Nathanaelsadgrove (talk) 22:14, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

You cannot use wikipedia pages to support your additions. See Wikipedia:Reliable source examples#Are wikis reliable sources?.--Harout72 (talk) 22:24, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Britney Spears Claimed Sales[edit]

Hi @Harout72 , Happy new year! first off I want to offer an apology, sorry isn't my intention to cause any damage to the article, I was editing it on based on this recently reference = also i did some research and Mrs. Spears has sold a total of 200 million Records sales if we counted all her sales : albums, singles, DVDs and video homes, the attached reference in the article is in 100 million mark bases in album sales alone. In addition, other sources:

Thanks :)

--Tialogen (talk) 14:32, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Happy New Year. As for your sources, they are not reliable, and we don't update artists' sales figures unless the gap between the certified sales and currently listed sales figure narrows down significantly. Also, List of best-selling music artists requires certain percentage of certified sales for all artists based on their first year of charting. Everything I just mentioned is in fact in the lead of the list. So you should not have edited the list without reading it. Having said all that, Britney Spears needs her claimed figures supported by 69.4% certified sales, which means for a claim as high as 200 million, she'd need 138 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 22:30, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

--Harout72 but according wikipedia ABBA only have a total available 57.8 million certified units and they're in the 200 million mark --Tialogen (talk) 00:08, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

The details of the requirements are on the talk page, in the second yellow box from the top. ABBA have begun charting in 1972, for that reason, the required percentage for them is only 20%. The required percentage amount goes up after 1975, because more and more music markets began instituting certification systems after that point.--Harout72 (talk) 00:22, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Madonna Japan[edit]

Hi Harout, can you let me know which exact months can I see Madonna's certifications for Japan in the Japan database? For Erotica and GHV2. —Indian:BIO [ ChitChat ] 15:22, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Erotica is certified 2x Platinum in November 1994, and GHV2 is certified Platinum in December 2001.--Harout72 (talk) 15:31, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. —Indian:BIO [ ChitChat ] 15:38, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
You're welcome.--Harout72 (talk) 15:40, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Some more Australian (ARIA) certifications pre-1997[edit]

Hi, I've scanned some more pages from Gavin Ryan's book for pre-1997 Australian (ARIA) certifications for several artists listed on the List of best-selling music artists page, if you (or another user) feel inclined to add these to the tally (N.B. these certifications are only accurate to July 2011). I've uploaded the scans (38 .jpg files) as a .rar file here - Nqr9 (talk) 03:50, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Ok I managed to view them but I'm unable to print them out in order to make separate PDF file for each artists. Will it be too much trouble to upload them the way you uploaded Mariah Carey's page?--Harout72 (talk) 05:29, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
Ok never mind, I managed to print them out. I will add their certifications in the next week. Thanks.--Harout72 (talk) 05:37, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! The scans cover most, but not all, of the artists on the page who had singles or albums certified between 1989 and 1996 inclusive.Nqr9 (talk) 07:15, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
These should help us illustrate Australia's certifications more accurately at the List of best.... I appreciate it.--Harout72 (talk) 13:43, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
If you'd like to access a pdf of the whole book, from which you can take clearer screen-shots/make clearer print-offs from if you wish to do so, and/or add additional certifications for other artists listed on the page who I've not previously scanned the pages for, please send a message via my youtube channel - (or, alternatively, that username at I didn't want to post a link here so that others could download it.Nqr9 (talk) 00:54, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks very much, I might contact you one of these days.--Harout72 (talk) 21:42, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Madonna Hard Candy[edit]

Harout can you let me know what certification have you stored Madonna's Hard Candy for UK? I can see that the BPI has listed it as Gold in their database, but in their year end report, it was listed as being certified Silver, Gold, Platinum on the same date of September 2008. Can it be that the BPI is potentially missing the certification from their database? The last reported sales for the album is over 330,000 so it makes sense that it has to be certified platinum. —Indian:BIO [ ChitChat ] 14:09, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

BPI has it as Gold (100,000 units), so naturally that's what I have included on the list and my file. Where is that year end report?--Harout72 (talk) 15:55, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Bubbling Under chart[edit]

I know your original concern was with unreferenced positions, but thanks for being one of the few users who understands that the positions on the Bubbling Under Hot 100 Singles chart are not a simple extension of the Hot 100. Apparently it was considered so by Billboard between 1961 and 1985, but now it's published separately and while Billboard could still consider it an extension by marking #1 as #101, they don't, so anyone claiming so would be providing original research. Again, thanks! Ss112 11:03, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you also for stepping in that AN/I discussion and providing your explanation. Unfortunately, we seem to have lot of editors who believe that Bubbling Under chart serve as extensions.--Harout72 (talk) 17:12, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

More thanks![edit]

Thank you for reporting ADCDL/Cries of Chaos/Hellspring/etc. I noticed the barrage of removals at multiple dance-related artists' pages and thought they were still on the loose but then saw you noticed it too and reported for sockpuppeting. Thanks! Ss112 07:59, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

No problem, it was necessary.--Harout72 (talk) 13:55, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

MTV Unplugged[edit]

Hey Harout. Oddly, I've never seen this, but the RIAA has Unplugged listed at four-times Platinum whereas I've only ever seen three. Take a look please and see what you make of it. Look under more details. As a point of reference, here is Carey's full list of certifications page. Cheers.--PeterGriffinTalk2Me 11:53, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

I've only seen three times Platinum too for 1,500,000 units. This is odd, because the fourth Platinum isn't new, I guess they'd never posted it in their database. I wonder if RIAA has added certifications for other artists also. I'll add it on my file and also on the list. Thanks for bring this up.--Harout72 (talk) 16:31, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks mate. Can you tell me the criterion threshold for EPs? I wasn't aware there was one. Here's what's weird. SoundScan has it at like 2.7-2.8 million in sales and we thought at triple platinum, so how do we square that? Could they possibly have meant standard quad-plat?--PeterGriffinTalk2Me 02:48, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
The levels for EPs, certified before Sep. 1996 were Gold=250,000, Platinum=500,000. All EPs certified after Sep. 1996 are treated with the same levels as full length albums (see this article). Well, RIAA has certified 4x Platinum for 2 million units back in 1994, when the levels were still lower than standard albums' levels. I see the soundscan figures is at 2.7 million. With old criteria, that's 5x Plat., but I'm not sure if that album reached that sales figure after Sep. 1996 or before. Were RIAA to certified that now, it would be only 2x Platinum. But I don't think they'd do that.--Harout72 (talk) 03:03, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
Hey buddy. Can you link me to your Mariah Carey compilation list of certs? Cheers--PeterGriffinTalk2Me 18:04, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Here it is.--Harout72 (talk) 20:06, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Mate, I think you missed Daydream 5 times Plat in Australia. Also, why are the New Zealand numbers all Plat or less? Many went 5 times Plat etc. Aside from that it really looks fantastic and I think you did a great job.--PeterGriffinTalk2Me 21:09, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
I added the 5x Plat. for "Daydream". As for NZ certs, I have used the Chart (, and that's all I could find. At Mariah's Discography, I see Mariah Carey album is listed as 5x Plat., how? It is just Plat. after 56 weeks on chart. The same goes to Music Box listed as 5x Plat. on her discography. It's just Platinum after being 76 weeks on the chart. Follow all of the weeks that I have posted next to NZ certs, and you'll see that they are all correct.--Harout72 (talk) 21:57, 6 February 2016 (UTC)--Harout72 (talk) 21:51, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Tetsuya Komuro[edit]

Hi. :-) I'm sorry for interrupting, but if I could I wanna ask how many certified sales Komuro has sold? In the article about him on Wiki it is written records PRODUCED by him has been sold in excess of 170 million units. I'd like to know how many units it is in certified sales? Thank you. Pinoczet (talk) 18:59, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I haven't looked over the available certifications of that artist.--Harout72 (talk) 19:13, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
Of course, I understand. :-) Thank you for your answer. But do you think it is possible or rather impossible that his certifications could cover that 170 million produced records sold? I see you know really much about music industry, so maybe your "intuition" can help me. :-) Thanks in advance. Pinoczet (talk) 19:53, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
Records produced by Tetsuya Komuro aren't going to be easy to track down, unless you're someone very familiar with the records produced by him. I normally look at the Gold and Platinum certifications of those artists whose certifications I notice on consistent bases, while going over other artists' certified sales. I have to say that I haven't noticed certifications posted for Tetsuya Komuro in RIAJ's databases, or maybe he has some but they haven't necessarily stood out for me in order to look over his detailed certified sales. So I could answer your question saying that as a solo artists, he's most probably not sold enough records to come anywhere close to 170 million. But if sources claim that the 170 million figure is both for his solo records sales and also those that he's produced, I'm afraid I couldn't answer that.--Harout72 (talk) 20:23, 30 January 2016 (UTC)


For the Madonna "Miles Away" certification that you added, I understood that the Cell (100,000) and PC downloads (100,000) are combined for a platinum (250,000) certification. So you added another extra 50,000. But there was a mastertone certification of 2x platinum. Is it still added to the tally? —IB [ Poke ] 14:29, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

There were three different types of formats, Full R, R and PC Download. Full R and PC Download formats are combined into one, when re-certified. RIAJ started doing this in January 2014, see the bottom of this page. The 2x Platinum for R format for "Miles Away" is also added in her Japanese total, which is certified in July 2008.--Harout72 (talk) 01:42, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

A Barnstar for You[edit]

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
For contributing to the block of the problematic and dangerous Funkatastic by noticing a ban violation. I ardently thank you for your hard work and observance. ~Lord Laitinen~ (talk) 06:29, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the barnstar. I'm just glad other editors who previously had noticed disruptions by Funkatastic, stepped in also.--Harout72 (talk) 13:58, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Me too. Awilley informed me that Kww also played an instrumental part in the matter. I plan to reward him with a Diligence Barnstar, as well. Once again, thanks for your service, and happy editing! ~Lord Laitinen~ (talk) 04:25, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Inna's Italy peaks[edit]

Hi there! Can you please search through the FIMI archives for Inna chart peaks like you did for Alexandra Stan long time ago? Thanks!! Cartoon network freak (talk) 13:41, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Artist sales[edit]

Hi Harout! I'd like to know, if it's not a problem, if you could tell me the worldwide sales based on certifications by Jennifer Lopez, Green Day and Miley Cyrus, and if there's any chance they could make it onto the list. Thanks in advance.--Fallengrademan (talk) 23:24, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

  • Jennifer Lopez's certified sales are 32.470 million, and that amount of certified sales could only support 46.7 million sales as artists who've begun charting in 1999 need 69.4% certified sales.
  • Green Day's certified sales are 47 million, and that figure can support 70.7 million in sales, as all artists that have begun charting in 1994 need their claimed figures supported by 66.4% certified sales.
So, for the time being only Green Day have the change of getting on the list. I haven't gone over Miley Cyrus' certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 01:12, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Billboards Music Awards 2016[edit]

Billboards Music Awards 2016 paid a tribute to Britney Spears career and they update her sales claiming she has sold 146 million records in the intro of her tribute. --Tialogen (talk) 22:56, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm assuming you wish to see her sales figure changed at the List of best-selling music artists, well, I'm not sure anymore how many times I've said this to you on your own talk page, but that list requires all claimed figured be supported by certain amount of certified sales. The details of the requirements are posted at Talk:List of best-selling music artists, see the large yellow box from the top. First, we don't use anything coming from Twitter, second for an inflated sales figure like 146 million records, Spears would need that supported by 69.4% certified sales, which means she'd need 101.3 million units of certified sales. Her current certified sales stand at 77.3 million from all markets.--Harout72 (talk) 00:27, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Spears sales aren't inflated in fact are quite outdated because you don't even have her singles sales, second BILLBOARD is a pretty realiable source the same that you require to update and with other artists you simply uses in terms of data sources you ask by the RIAA, Billboard, MTV etc.. on first step but with some artists you placed sources with Zero credibility, that's video was broadcast on international television made by billboard an authority on the music, i'm sorry but have other artists with sales a way more inflated and keeping inflate ever day every day as Rihanna or Taylor Swift you even counts their streams and britney only in albums alone her sales certrificade are 84M and that amount of 77.3 are here since 2009 and you never udaptes in clear contrast with other artists who demonstrating a special interest constantly update their sales in, don't worry I'm assuming that her sales will never be updated here.

PSD: Wikipedia should be moderated by people with no bias considering even more if it comes to artists where everyone have their own personal taste and that's sometimes can prevail although the majority considers the information here is not always reliable, they use it as a source. --Tialogen (talk) 12:13, 24 May 2016 (UTC) --Tialogen (talk) 12:23, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

All of her certified sales are included, singles, albums and videos. And they are all up to date. Her certified sales from all of the markets are as follows 52.5 million albums, 22.6 million singles, 2.1 million videos. There are lot of singles that have yet to be certified by the RIAA, once they are certified, we can list Britney Spears with higher claimed figure. For the time being, that's all the certified sales she has.--Harout72 (talk) 13:22, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Alexandra Stan[edit]

Hi there! I'm writing this message to you in order to invite you to the WikiProject Alexandra Stan I've recently created. Your accompany would be efficient for fixing grammar and style issues and overall improve the coverage of the Romanian artist. Best, Cartoon network freak (talk) 08:56, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

List of best-selling music artists[edit]

Will you kindly explain why you removed my valid and sourced addition to the article ? Clausgroi (talk) 14:45, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

That figure is unrealistically high from The Beatles' available certified sales, which stand at 269.5 million units. The lead of the List of best-selling music artists does informs editors that inflated promotional figures are not used. It reads Inflated claimed figures that meet the required certified units amount but are unrealistically high, are not used. Guinness World Records are no experts in sales figures, that figure is given to them by The Beatles' record company. In fact, music sales figures must be analyzed very carefully as the record companies constantly inflate artists' records sales.--Harout72 (talk) 01:12, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
I do not disagree with you about anything you said. But the fact is that the article states both "reputed sales" and "claimed sales". It makes no sense to base the reputed or claimed sales on the certified sales because they are different things: the certified sales are the confirmed/registered ones, whilst the reputed or claimed sales are the ones that are just said or written without any real basis. Matter of fact, if I had participated in the creation and early development of the article, the artists would be ranked by the certified sales, never the claimed ones, simply because we can't know if the claimed figures are correct. You say "Guinness World Records are no experts in sales figures", but no source in the article is. There are texts from CNN, BBC, The New Yorker, Daily Telegraph, Los Angeles Times and other well-known newspapers and magazine as well as some unknown, like "The Tuscaloosa News" and "Albany Democrat-Herald". What authority do these sources have to talk about sales figures ? None. So the real question is: where do these sources find these numbers ? Do they just make them up ? The most logical explanation is that they are acquired by inquiring the record companies. That means that, in the end, the same argument you use to disqualify my source is the argument that disqualifies almost all (if not all) sources in the page. As an example, let's take the Beatles' sources. CNN states "According to Apple Corps Ltd., which markets the Beatles worldwide, the Fab Four has sold more than 600 million records, tapes and CDs", that is, they got the figures from their OWN company (Apple was founded by the Beatles). If the Beatles sold 269.4 million (certified), then 600 million already seems inflated, and yet you didn't remove it from the article. The New Yorker, on the other hand, cites no source to say "five hundred million-plus credited to the Beatles". Where did they get this number from ? I hope you can see what I mean. Clausgroi (talk) 17:35, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
We never rely on the figures published by sources as they are almost always inflated for promotional purposes, whether it's CNN, BBC or any other prestigious news agency. Therefore, we always look at the available certified sales. But the list's ranking cannot be based on certified sale because until 1973, the US was the only country with certification system. The 1973 is when key markets such as France and the UK established their Gold and Platinum program. Two years after that others including Germany and Canada came up with their certification system. While, The Beatles' earlier records have only partially been certified in other countries with an exception of the US, the 600 million seems more realistic based on their available certifies sales than the 1 billion units. Since the US covers roughly 25-30% of the entire global sales, it varies each year. Considering that The Beatles have 212 million certified units from the US, the rest of the 600 million coming from the rest of the globe is reasonable. And we use only those claimed figures on the list that are closer to artists' certified sales. This is also mentioned in the lead of the list: Note that this list uses claimed figures that are closest to artists' available certified units. Since the List of best-selling music artists might seem too complex for some editors, it's best to discuss on the talk page first before jumping into editing it.--Harout72 (talk) 18:20, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
It's not that it's complex, it's very simple, actually: it's flawed. What you are doing is called inference, and an artice should never rely on inferences since they obviously compromise its reliability. You are assuming the figure of 600 million is correct, but you can't simply do that in order to allow yourself to add some content and reject another. Like I said, no source is fully reliable in the sense that they can't know for sure how many records an artist has sold, and that's why they ask the record companies, which probably inflate the numbers a little bit (for instance, TIME has stated Elvis sold 1 billion). Regarding the Beatles, specifically, I don't doubt for a second they might have sold more than 1 billion. It's not unrealistic at all since they are the world's most famous, acclaimed and financially successful band ever. What is necessary to add content to a Wikipedia article is a reliable source that confirms the info, and that I have. What is preventing me is this ridiculous "rule" that you people made up. It makes no sense to allow the article to contain "claimed" or "reputed" sales if they have to be close to the certified sales number, for one reason: "claimed" and "reputed" are terms that exempt themselves from representing the truth necessarily. That means when you say The Beatles "claimed" or "reputed" sales are over 1 billion, you can't garantee that number is right, but neither can you when it comes to the 600 million figure. In the end, all we have are the sources, and they should not be ignored. Clausgroi (talk) 15:54, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
My analysis is far from being an assumption. We should not use any sales claim only because they happen to be published by prestigious news agencies. All sales figures should be carefully scrutinized, because record companies do not inflate little bit as you suggest, they inflate figures by tens of millions of units, and in the case of artists such as Michael Jackson, The Beatles, Elvis Presley, the inflation is in hundreds of millions of units. The wikipedia, by the way, itself suggests that the content of sources should be checked and analyzed.--Harout72 (talk) 00:09, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
You said "Considering that The Beatles have 212 million certified units from the US, the rest of the 600 million coming from the rest of the globe is reasonable". That is an assumption. I could argue that, since the Beatles are the most famous, prestigious and commercially successful band ever, the figure of 1 billion is also reasonable, but that wouldn't matter because it's just my opinion. What I need is a reliable source to back that up, and I did find that source.
You said "All sales figures should be carefully scrutinized", but there's no way to actually do that (not even record associations are able to do that). You did not scrutinise the 600 million sales figure, you assumed it was true based on the sources.
You said "We should not use any sales claim only because they happen to be published by prestigious news agencies", but this is exactly what has been done since the beginning of this article. People see figures mentioned in articles by famous magazines, newspapers or websites and add them here.
You said "record companies do not inflate little bit as you suggest, they inflate figures by tens of millions of units, and in the case of artists such as Michael Jackson, The Beatles, Elvis Presley, the inflation is in hundreds of millions of units". Exactly, and that's why I said the figure of 600 million was already inflated. That's more than double the certified sales. But you won't remove it from the article, will you ? No, because you assumed it is correct, and then we go back to the first comment I made.
Bottom line: either we apply the same rule to all sources and sales figures or the article will be inevitably flawed. We can't choose some sources because we like them or think they're right and reject others because they don't "seem reasonable". All in all, don't forget we are talkng about claimed (or reputed) sales, and, by their very definition, they don't have to be accurate. Clausgroi (talk) 22:39, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
If you expect me to continue having this futile argument of yours, the next time you need to come back with something more intelligent than simply repeating everything I've written above, and adding assumption at the end. My argument is based on analysis and years of research. Whereas yours is based on completely inflated sales figure, which in no way corresponds to The Beatles' available certified sales. What's even worse is that you yourself admit that the 1 billion units of sales are reasonable based on your opinion. The rules apply to all artists, in fact, those the same rules have been applied to all artists for many years now. We don't guess or assume anything at the List of best-selling music artists, we use information about music markets, all of which is supported by reliable sources.--Harout72 (talk) 01:54, 22 July 2016 (UTC)