User talk:Hell in a Bucket/Archive 1

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Hell in a Bucket (talk) 04:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


Hunter in the Dark[edit]

Hi - Just FYI - I have removed the CSD tag that you placed on this article as it is not blank (and this tag was meant for blank articles). Please make sure you are familiar with WP:CSD criteria, and you may want to take a look at WP:BEFORE as this book look quite notable to me. Thanks.    7   talk Δ |   23:55, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Elections in Kansas[edit]

Really? --ilamb94 (talk) 00:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of talkpage stuff[edit]

It's pretty much up to you, of course, and please don't take this as criticism, but could I put a plea in to you to not scrape your talkpage clean quite as often as you do? Due to, er, past events (shall we say) there are likely to be a few editors watching this page; some of us might like to comment on things here to mutual benefit and irrespective of things in the past (I found WP:R for the first time due to comments here, for example, then passed it on to you).

There are some very good bots around that will automagically archive threads of your talkpage once they've been inactive for a defined period (I use Miszabot, though other bots are available). It might be good to take a look.

As I say, this isn't a criticism — just a request ☺ Tonywalton Talk 00:25, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Admin only? Not at all. Bots will archive any old talkpage, including article talkpages. As I say, I use Miszabot; all I've done is put some config at the top of my talkpage:
|algo = old(5d)
|archive = User talk:Tonywalton/Archive-%(monthnameshort)s-%(year)d
Stick that at the top of your talkpage, with appropriate changes. Obviously, the target archive would need to be changed from "Tonywalton", the name is up to you - Archive-%(monthnameshort)s-%(year)d makes archives named "Archive-Jun-2009" and so on. The archive frequency is also up to you - 5d will archive a thread if it's inactive for five days. See User:MiszaBot/Archive_HowTo for full details. Cheers, Tonywalton Talk 01:09, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

This is a test thread[edit]

Leave this thread alone, lonely and unanswered, and see the archivebot do its work! Sackful of swallows (talk) 01:19, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


There seems to be some sort of consensus, which I can't find right now (I'm at work) that university professors are inherently notable. I disagree, but it's become one of those things like "all schools are notable" that isn't worth arguing about. Since the speedy's been declined, you're free to nominate it to AfD, which is the proper procedure anyway - that way it's exposed to a full debate. Acroterion (talk) 15:04, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Hell in a Bucket. You have new messages at Ged UK's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

GedUK  19:46, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


Hi HellinaBucket, You just beat me ;) to adding a CSD to Veca pupu miza. The strange thing is that for me, the CSD header doesn't appear. It does show up in the diff view. Odd. Does it show up for you? TheSmuel (talk) 20:32, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks - it still doesn't show on the main article page for me. How odd. Must be something wrong at my end :) TheSmuel (talk) 20:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)}


When you do an AfD nomination, you need to put in all the formatting according to the AfD instruction page so it transcludes properly into the main AfD page - right now Bonnie Richardson's in AfD space, but doesn't show. You might want to take a look at the instructions and format it so everybody can see and it can follow protocol. I personally disagree with deletion for the reasons I state (and declined a speedy), but it's good to have the discussion, so no worries there. Acroterion (talk) 18:09, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing it. Acroterion (talk) 22:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
If you look again in Preferences/Gadgets, you'll see a checkbox for Twinkle, which semi-automates reverts, PRODs, AfDs, vandalism reports, all sorts of things (assuming you're using Firefox, Safari or Opera and not Internet Exploder). However: take it from one who's seen the dismal cycle.
  • Act 1:New, enthusiastic editor enables Twinkle.
  • Act 2: Editor reports vandals, tags speedies, usernames, bites newbies, all the while feeling productive and hugely useful.
  • Act 3: AN/I, admins annoyed at having to un-bite, un-tag, un-report; new, productive-feeling user scolded, restricted from using semi-automated tools, shame, tears.
Please be careful and judicious in using what is a very powerful tool. If you start feeling productive and useful, reconsider what you're doing. You are still responsible for everything you do and say, regardless of any automated edit summaries. Acroterion (talk) 23:19, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I'll read over the twinkle info, sounds useful but maybe not what I need at this point since I am still learning a lot of the ropes around here. Thanks for letting me know and after I research I'll know if I want to dabble...Hell in a Bucket (talk) 23:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Your edit summary says it all. At least it will spare you from manually formatting an AfD. Acroterion (talk) 23:32, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Apparently I allready have Twinkle, I just rarely use firefox. I see theprocess and how quick it can be. Thanks for your help, I might use it but I agree it needs the correct caution. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 23:34, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

need help with archive bot.[edit]


I tried to set up miza bot for 2 days but it doesn;t seem ti work, can you help me set it up or check what I did wrong? thanks Hell in a Bucket (talk) 15:34, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi there. I'm not quite sure which part is wrong, and I don't know the full syntax of Miza with regards to the names you've chosen for your archive, and the days thing. What I do know is, the following - on my own talk page - works fine. So I'd suggest using this format, unless you really hate the idea of the archives being called just 'archive1', etc.
|maxarchivesize = 100K
|counter = 10
|algo = old(100h)
|archive = User talk:Chzz/Archive %(counter)d

I suggest using that, and just changing the 100 to 24, and change the counter to 1 (and of course changing the user name, thanks!)

I then have this bit, which indexes the archives;

{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn|target=User talk:Chzz/Archive Index|mask=User talk:Chzz/Archive <#>|leading_zeros=0|indexhere=no|template=}}

(again change user name)

You also probably want some kind of an archive box at the top of your page so that you can access them. I use this;

{{archive box|auto=yes|search=yes}} put all of that lot together and make things easy - what I suggest is, that you copy the following block and replace your existing {{User:MiszaBot/config... }} with this;

|maxarchivesize = 100K
|counter = 1
|algo = old(48h)
|archive = User talk:HellinaBucket/Archive %(counter)d
{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn|target=User talk:HellinaBucket/Archive Index|mask=User talk:HellinaBucket/Archive <#>|leading_zeros=0|indexhere=no|template=}}
{{archive box|auto=yes|search=yes}}

Hope this helps.

For more help, you can either;

  • Leave a message on my own talk page; OR
  • Use a {{helpme}} - please create a new section at the end of your own talk page, put {{helpme}}, and ask your question - remember to 'sign' your name by putting ~~~~ at the end; OR
  • Talk to us live, with this or this.

Best wishes,  Chzz  ►  15:47, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

please restore church dab in progress[edit]

Would you please restore the Mt Zion Church dab that i am working on right now. I am sorting out several related pages. I believe i had an "under construction" type sign on it, but then i get your speedy notice and a redlink all at once. doncram (talk) 23:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

National unemployment clock[edit]

Hello Hell. i declined the speedy deletion as it does not look like nonsense and I find Google hits supporting the content. Cheers, Dlohcierekim 01:32, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

As long as it checks out cool with me!!! Hell in a Bucket (talk) 01:33, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Park Vista Hotel[edit]

I'm sorry that i removed the speedy deletion tag, but i just figured that i at least try to expand the article a little more, but i'm going to give up on that for now, since i couldn't find anymore info on it, so basically i'm giving up on the article for now. I will try to re-create the article in the future. However, i have a request. Can i redirect the hotel article to the city article if that's okay? Ryanbstevens (talk) 04:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

The main problem is that the hotel is intself unremarkable. Let the admin chaeck and decide. I'vwe only nominated it./ Hell in a Bucket (talk) 04:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Steve Grogan (Manson Family)[edit]

Hi there. Could you please explain to me why you tagged Steve Grogan (Manson Family) as vandalism? Regards SoWhy 13:27, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I apologize this was done innappropriately last night. When I realized the mistake I made I hsd logged out to get some sleep. I will endeavor to be more careful in the future when editing tired, Sorry for wasting your time. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 14:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Silver Gulch Brewing & Bottling Company[edit]

I received a message indicating this article was nominated for speedy delivery due to the possibility of it representing advertising, which I fully understand. However, I am in no way affiliated with the company in question, nor do I have anything to gain financially from writing the article. I live in Anchorage and am a beer lover. I also created the article for Midnight Sun Brewing Company, in a continuing effort to compile information on the craft brewing industry in Alaska, and dealt with the same message then. Thank you. Alyeska2112 (talk) 17:44, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

we need reliable third party sources for this beer, in my opnion just because it is a microbrewery it doesn't carry notability with it. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 18:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure what third party sources you're referring to, though I did make sure to include a review of the brewery and rating of their beers from RateBeer. Also, keep in mind that in an enclosed economy like Alaska, a stand-alone microbrewery does indeed "carry notability", particularly when it is the most northerly such enterprise in the country. I value your guidance, but I disagree with your opinion. Alyeska2112 (talk) 18:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
The other brewery you cite has award winning beer. Is there any articles by third party sources that make this microbrewery standout as a notable organization? Hell in a Bucket (talk) 18:32, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Fair point. I'll do some research on any awards the brewery may have earned. However, I think the very existence of a brewery in Alaska, coupled with its curious proximity to the Arctic Circle, still entitle it to its own article, albeit a brief one. Thanks for your help. Alyeska2112 (talk) 18:45, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
And I can understand your points as well that to survive the company must be pretty burly. However that being said it doesn't nec mean it is notable either. I think that it is well written though and if there is an award of a blurb about their beers in another magizine I'd be happy to see it here. Good luck finding sources. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 18:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I have added an additional third party source citing the brewery's size as the second largest in the state (a notable distinction), as well as a link to a Modern Brewery Age article on the difficulties of brewing in Alaska, which features Silver Gulch prominently. If I learn of awards earned by the brewery, I will add those as well. Alyeska2112 (talk) 19:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of West Valley Volunteer Fire Department[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svg

I have nominated West Valley Volunteer Fire Department, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/West Valley Volunteer Fire Department. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 15:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

my main suggestion is anything that is notable, such as newspaper articles of fires you've worked on or anything that establishes your dept as one that is above the others. Again respects. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 15:32, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

No fire department is above any other. We are all equal fire fighters and place our lives on the line. It saddens me to hear you think that one is better than the other based on size and funding. So, I'll look for something to add to make the thousands of lives we've saved notable to you. Check the article in a few hours and it will be changed. I hope it meets your personal approval.

I'm sorry you seem to be laboring under the view that this article has to meet my personal opinion. I believe that it is worth the time to debate the article with the Wikipedia communit yincluding more experienced editors then either yourself or I are. i am just trying to help maintain high standards. please read WP:AGF. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 23:28, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I added a few more sections including a very big fire event with links to the story Fox News did on it. If this enough or do you need more? Let me know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goodtoinform (talkcontribs) 00:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

You need to make any mention of improvements and sourcing and "keepability" at the AFD discussion. Dlohcierekim 00:36, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

This has been an interesting experience for me. As you likely realized, I am very new to Wikipedia. I didn't know there was a process for deleting articles, and so I thought your actions were arbitrary. At first I thought it was a tiff between the two of us. I didn’t realize there was a special page for voting until another editor told me about it on my talk page. I am impressed and surprised at how organized and structured Wikipedia is. I feel embarrassed and immature now that I see the truth.

I have to apologize to you. I felt like your speedy deletion was a general attack on small fire agencies. You'd be surprised how many of us volunteer groups get belittled by rich and fully staffed big city departments. But despite this, my reaction was both unprofessional and unwarranted. I have read the protocols and my knowledge of how Wikipedia works has grown a hundred-fold. I do hope the article lives, I am of the opinion that all government agencies should be listed. However if not, it will be because ‘’’I’’’ broke the rules, not because of a personal thing.

I have created a few other articles. I would be very grateful if you would take a look at them and let me know if any of them are also against the policies so I can improve them and make them fit the rules. I have also heavily edited other articles. My first user name was Inform154, but I lost the password and made this new one.

Thank you. Information Should Be Free (talk) 02:49, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! He's the best character in the series, IMO.--Sandor Clegane (talk) 16:40, 12 June 2009 (UTC)



I don't mean to be rude, so please don't take this that way... You recently nominated Global Adjustments for deletion. It appears you made no attempt to find sources for the article before doing so as the company is clearly notable. It is strongly advised that make a good faith attempt to find sources before sending an article to AfD, as AfD is not a venue to force cleanup. Article on notable subjects won't be deleted just because they are poorly written and/or incomplete, so sending them to AfD is a waste of everyone's time. Instead just tag the article with {{advert}}, {{unreferenced}}, or another appropriate Cleanup templates if you are unwilling/unable to fix the problems yourself. See also, WP:BEFORE.

Thank you and have a nice day, ThaddeusB (talk) 17:09, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

you are the second person tocounsel me on this so I have to assume I'm missing something. I've review wp:before and thought I was acting in that spirit. How do I avoid things like this in the future? Do you have any suggestions? Hell in a Bucket (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
as a start, always search Google. for common phrases like this use the term in quotes and add something distinguishing, such as "India"; then actually check at least the first two pages of results. To remove blogs and the company's own postings, use Google News Archive cf. [1] and for material outside familiar territory, learn the names of the major reliable sources. DGG (talk) 18:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Here is basically what I try to do:
  • In all cases, it is helpful to check the official webpage, as people/companies/whatever are helpful enough to link to third party coverage right on their own page.
  • If it's a company: Do a Google news search with the full name in quotes: "CrazySoft Productions". If the company doesn't have a generic name, try a shorter version of the name: CrazySoft. If the name is too generic try adding either a general term for what they make or the place they are located: CrazySoft movies or CrazySoft Ohio. By default, the search only shows you stories form the last 30 days so it is important to hit the "all dates" link in the archive section. I ignore things that look like PR or routine coverage - "CrazySoft announced" "CrazySoft released" etc - unless the source is of top quality. Usually 2 good articles are enough to warrant inclusion in Wikipedia, but Google does sometimes let in some blogs and other junk so I try to check the actual article instead of just relying on the hit. If that fails, I do a regular internet search as a sanity check to make sure the company isn't super popular and dig harder if it seems it is popular
  • If it is a product: same as above, about also check Google books - products are much more likely to be reviewed in books than in newspapers
  • If it is a band/singer: Check first. If they have a bio or album review for the artist, the artist is almost certainly notable. If they have basic info, but no review I do an internet search & news search, as these cases are notable 30-40% of the time. If they have nothing, the artist is rarely notable but I always do a quick news/internet check just to be sure. When searching for a generic name adding "music" or "band" is usually helpful. If the artist seems to have a lot popularity (hits), but I don't see anything useful immediately I add "review" or "Name of album" to the search.
  • If it is a movie or actor: I check As a comprehensive database it is usually pretty easy to figure out if a movie or actor is notable from imdb alone. Actors usually require at least two non-bit parts; the easiest way for a movie to qualify is to be critically reviewed & imdb has a link to 3rd party review. They also list any awards a movie won (useful for small indy films). If the number of fan votes is more than a few hundred the movie is almost always notable, and often is even without that many votes. IMDB's critic's list isn't complete, so a site like is good for borderline cases.
  • If it is a professor or other academic type: I always check Google Scholar first (accessible under "more" at Google). A professor is notable if their work has had a significant impact on their field. The exact number of cites required for "significant impact" varies by field, but generally if they have at least 1 paper with 100 cites or a couple with 30+ they are notable. Most academics list all their papers at their official websites under "CV" or "Curriculum Vitae" so it is easy to make sure the paper doesn't belong to somebody who happens to have the same name (although it is usually easy to tell by subject matter alone). If that fails I try a news search, although that is rarely helpful.
  • If it is a book or author: I usually check first. They often list 3rd party reviews in the product information. One review on Amazon is usually enough, as if there is one there are bound to be others (Amazon only lists reviews from major sources). Be careful though, as they sometimes list the publishers description as a "review" with the words "supplied by the publisher" at the bottom. Amazon's rank is also helpful sometimes. If a book is ranked less than 100K and wasn't published super recently it is probably notable (the top 100K is mostly newly published books, so for a non-new book to rank that high it has to have continual sales). If that fails, I always do a news and internet search, adding terms like "author" or "review" if needed. If it is a scholarly type book, Google scholar is helpful to determine if it has had an impact on its field.
  • Anything that isn't notable by itself, but is part of a notable entity should be redirected when possible (and merged when needed) - Songs to albums; albums to bands; presidents to the organization they head; products to companies; books to authors; etc.
I think that covers are the things that come up routinely, but if you have more questions feel free to ask. --ThaddeusB (talk) 05:03, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I thought of a couple more tips I forgot to mention:

  • When searching for a person things can get tricky since they may be known by some form other than what the Wikipedia page says. For example, most coverage is done in "First Last" form but a lot of Wikipedia editors use either "First Middle Last" or "First M. Last" so it pays to try a few combination and/or to not put the name in quotes until you figure out what he subject is primarily known by. The subject's official webpage might be of help in determining their preferred (and thus usually most used) name form.
  • Sometime Wikipedia article have typos in their subject or use an uncommon version of the title. These should be redirected to the existing article, if there is one, or fixed by moving the page. Typos can make finding sources hard, obviously, so be on the lookout for possible corrections
  • ALL secondary (equivalent to high school level in the US) are considered notable; most primary schools aren't, but can be redirected to an article about the school district as a whole or to the town in which they reside
  • ALL inhabited or formally inhabited places that officially exist are considered notable (e.g. town of 10 people is notable); neighborhoods or other unofficial groups of people usually are not

Enjoy, ThaddeusB (talk) 05:36, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

db tag[edit]

Hello It appears that you tagged Monsters of Folk with {{db-bio}} while I was working on it. I am a little flummoxed and I frankly don't understand your actions. First of all, at the time, the page contained {{inuse}} and I was in the process of editing it. I don't know why you refused to wait until this tag was taken off the page or until it had gone unedited for several hours. Consequently, I apparently deleted your tag without even noticing it; this is precisely why {{inuse}} exists. Furthermore, your rationale was an appeal to Wikipedia:CSD#A7, which explicitly states that it does not apply to articles about albums. If you care to explain yourself, please do so on my talk. If not, please allow me to give you gentle encouragement to consider your edits more carefully. Thank you for your time. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 03:13, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

No worries All's well that ends well. If I had a dime for every time someone had to remind me of something pretty basic or straight-forward, I'd be rich (e.g. see the thread above yours on my talk.) —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 04:46, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


Can you plz give me reason that why should this article will be deleted ?

see the article List of bridges and tunnels in Macau, it have the same content so why it cant be deleted ??

Colossal (talk) 16:13, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I nominated that one for deletion as well. My belief is that bridges and tunnels are not notable just because they are built. Now the San Francisco Bridge or something that is historically notable that would be different. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 16:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

so nominate this article as well Bridges and tunnels in New York City.

Colossal (talk) 16:25, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

notice there is a difference there, For example the Brooklyn Bridge is notable as the oldest suspension bridge in US I believe. That is why an article like that can stay, if you can demonstrate notability with teh others I'm glad to have them too.Hell in a Bucket (talk) 16:27, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Please stop hounding me![edit]

I am trying to make a sandbox, not an article. Once the article is improved in the sandbox, I'll consider it for mainspace. Stop putting delete messages in my sandbox or help fix it and notify user:Billy Hathorn of the new link! User F203 (talk) 17:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Hello HellinaBucket,

I've recently discovered a new artist- Phoebe Peek. She's been playing at several places and has been offered a record deal, why shouldn't the article Phoebe Peek be up for all to see?!

Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wendypanpan (talkcontribs) 15:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


Would it be possible for you to wait for more than 5 minutes after the article's creation - at least wait until it's finished, before tagging it? Dodge rambler (talk) 17:11, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Your speedy deletion tagging of Criticism of Anti-Defamation League[edit]

This is not really criticism, but an article about such criticism, as a branch off of the main article, Anti-Defamation League. Such practice is common to keep articles as short as possible, especially if the new sub-article has enough content, references and notability to merit its own article anyway. - CobaltBlueTony™ talk 17:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I think you should reconsider. Controversial organizations that do good work, like the ADL and Human rights Watch attract critics who overwhelm their pages. User:Cobaltbluetony is quite correct in pointing out that its is routine solution.Historicist (talk) 18:01, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Removed speedy deletion tag: Centro Gran Caribe[edit]

Hello HellinaBucket, and thanks for your work patrolling new changes. I am just informing you that I removed the speedy deletion tag from Centro Gran Caribe- because: the article makes a credible assertion of notability, sufficient to pass A7. Please review the criteria for speedy deletion before tagging further pages. If you have any questions, please let me know. NW (Talk) 18:33, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

great! AcesUpMaSleeve (talk) 18:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: slowing down[edit]

Please consider that there is a reason why people are asking you to slow down. While most of your taggings are technically correct, you should take into account that most new articles are created by new users and usually not created all in one swoop. For example, an article that starts as a few sentences which don't indicate any importance for the subject is often a first draft. The creator is often busy gathering more information and will come back to edit it again very shortly.

However, if they come back to see that they are already being told their work is crap they might just say "screw it" and leave forever. If you give them a chance, the worst that can happen is a bad article sitting around for a few hours and being read by virtually nobody. The worst that can happen is that you chase away a potentially useful contributor. See also WP:Don't bite the newbies --ThaddeusB (talk) 23:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with ThaddeusB. Additionally, please do not categorize legitimate points by fellow editors as "whining." We made an extremely valid request of you. either way (talk) 00:01, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Which newbie did I bite? If asked I always explain why I did something, and if wrong I do apologize. Now unless you are prepared to give examples please do not post here as I will not accept or agree to abstracts from your mind(s). Hell in a Bucket (talk) 00:14, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Please note that the direction to the BITE essay was only added as a see also, and wasn't meant to imply you had "bit" anyone per say. My main arguments hold true even if you ignore that line entirely. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:20, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
And, actually, looking through a bunch of the AFDs you've created lately, I'd suggest you step away from AFDs for awhile until you get a better sense of the policies and guidelines for articles here. Far too many of your AFDs are being kept which suggests that you don't fully understand the article guidelines. Try examining already open AFDs to see more "proper" arguments for discussions. AFDs may help improve some articles that are kept, but overall, it is more just a waste of time for them to go through AFD just to be kept overwhelmingly. either way (talk) 00:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I guess you didn't read the above comment, without a specific reference DO NOT POST ANYTHING ON MY PAGE. If you have a reference fine, I'll gladly discuss my reasoning, however as it appears you can't or won't specify what you are talking about I believe my request should be honored. I have neither the time nor inclination to read your mind about what you may or may not need. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 00:40, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Sure, here's some evidence for you. In your last 100 Wikipedia space edits, you've edited about 27 AFDs (the vast majority were your nominations it appears--probably 25/26 out of 27). Here are some of the ones that stood out as part of my point:

That's over 40% of your AFD nominations in the last 6 days or so that have been, or will be, closed as keep. This suggests to me that you don't fully understand our guidelines and policies. If you took time to do a quick Google News search for references, rather than nominating the article in the first 50 seconds, you'd reduce the admin workload and reduce the AFD back log (among other benefits to the project). either way (talk) 01:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

See Act 2 of the three-act play I described to you a few days ago. Your all-caps comment above is not a constructive response to legitimate cricism.Acroterion (talk) 03:16, 15 June 2009 (UTC

I do not mind legitimate criticism but when there is nothing to go with it, it's a little hard to swallow, I tried asking nicely no one listened so I typed in bold caps. I still fundementally disagree with the above assesment even with the "evidence" cited above. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 05:22, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

You beg for evidence, but then when evidence is presented you just blow it off. Nice. either way (talk) 10:18, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

The "evidence" doesn't prove your point in my mind. This is why I classified your posting as whining, I do not agree with you, I state it kindly yet yuo still come here to whine. Please stop, I do not mind legitimate criticism but some fo the posting above is B.S. on your part. Let me clarify just for example the film festival article, this is nothing more then a one lineblurb advertising their festival this year. I nominated for speedy it was declined, so I opened the AFD, Also bonnie Richardson was barely accepted under WP:Athlete, God i love pages that look like a myspace profile page. What about Mckinnon Gym, Does anyone relaly care where the basketball team practices? No one cares, Should be deleted or merged into the main article at the very least. I can continue going on but I 've focused enough attention on your foolishness, You tried to make a point and dismally failed, Please move on unless you have something constructive to say. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 13:09, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm walking away from this as i know it doesn't' seem like you're going or willing to be able to see my view point. I would like to remind you to keep future discussions more civil. Classifying others' comments as "whining", "b.s.," and "foolishness" is not the appropriate way to handle conversations on Wikipedia. either way (talk) 20:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll provide another perspective of your speed possibly effecting your performance. was tagged under CSD A7 less than a minute after it was posted. I don't think that's enough time for you to actually review the article and come to a conclusion on whether it meets A7 criteria or not. -- Norvy (talk) 19:17, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


Hi HellinaBucket,

Could you help fix the Subsoap page? You keep marking for for deletion, but it is noteworthy. The company is similar to and have released several casual games. Please let me know what needs to be added to the page.

¯\(º_o)/¯ Deus est mortuus (talk) 01:31, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

List of bridges[edit]

i understand wht is notable ! the main thing here which i want to understand you is the list of bridges which i had listed there are not notable ???

is the sixth crossing across Dubai creek is not notable, as the bridge upon completion will become worlds longest Arch bridge, not tell me wht is notable.

are these all bridges are not known all over the world , these bridges are famous.The basic logic behind the creation of this article is to make ease for the readers to find how many bridges are there in Dubai, and tunnels also.See the following articles:

now tell me are all the bridges listed in the above articles are not notable, abcolutely not !!! so can you plz remove the tag from my article.hope you got my point.

Colossal (talk) 09:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Centro Gran Caribe[edit]

Hello,sorry if i put this in the wrong place, but can you tell me wht is wrong with the Centro Gran Caribe page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gars129 (talkcontribs) 13:41, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Slight edit on User:HellinaBucket[edit]

Hi Hellinabucket;

I saw that the userboxes on your userpage didn't line up nicely (And in fact, on Firefox and Chrome they were placed over the text), so i decided to alter the page a little bit. I added a wikitable around them, and now they stand in a straith line. Feel free to revert if you don't like it :) Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 14:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Nonsense It looks awesome now! Thank you.Hell in a Bucket (talk) 14:32, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Ohio stadium crew[edit]

Good call on that one. I've now salted it temporarily. ϢereSpielChequers 15:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

TY, I'm trying to do the best I can. I don't tag 100 percently correctly evidently so it is nice to hear I did thato ne well! Hell in a Bucket (talk) 15:41, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Wrong tag on Isack kousnsky[edit]

Hi. You put a CSD A7 on Isack kousnsky. It is notable, but the article is a copyright infringement on . --Bsadowski1 (talk) 16:16, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

When I tagged there wasn't anything saying about a copy vio. Sorry I missed it but good catch on it. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 16:15, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

CSD A7 on[edit]

Please read my rationale at Thanks! -- Norvy (talk) 18:28, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

CSD A7[edit]

Please note CSD A7 does not apply to educational institutions. This allows me to annoy deletionists by making scores of articles about suburban schools. See List of schools in Essex Francium12 (talk) 19:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


Um, thanks for the "welcome" to Wikipedia. You may want to look up what assuming good faith means though, as I said nothing about your motivations whatsoever. It is a fact that you regularly nominate articles for AfD that have plenty of valid sources available. I am sorry my pointing this out offended you, but it is not assuming bad faith to point out a fact.

Also, you may want to take your own advice instead of dismissing valid criticism as "whining" and "non-sense." --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:17, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Pointing out mistakes do not bother me, only pointing out mistakes without valid proof. In fairness some of the articles I've nominated for AFD were invalid, that much I admit. I do not like my concerns being dismissed in a personal attack unambigously directed to me. Now you are more the welcome to post your concerns here but please show me the proof. I promise if I think I'm wrong (and often times I am) I will come back and apoligize. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 20:24, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
It was not intended as a personal attack. I am sorry you saw it that way. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:35, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, I actually do think you are acting in good faith. You view your actions as correct for the encyclopedia and I understand that. What myself and others have trying to get you to realize is that there are better ways to go about what you are doing.

I understand it is easier to instantly speedy delete tag every problem article the second it appears. I understand it is easier to send questionable article straight to AfD rather than looking for sources. What you need to understand is that what is easier isn't always best. By tagging things so quickly, you are potentially chasing off valuable contributors. (Of course vandalism/attack pages & copyright violations should be tagged instantly, but everything else can wait to see if it is goign to develop). By sending articles that have no chance of being deleted to AfD you are wasting the time of other editors.

I am not trying to be mean. Most people make mistakes when they are new (which includes those people who article's you are flagging). However, the fact remains that if you really want to make as valuable of a contribution to Wikipedia as possible you need to slow down. Quality is more important than quantity. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:35, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough, That is cogent and makes good sense. Some of these I have looked up and in the case of the I am amazed we would include a video game ranking site. But so long as you see I'm only trying to help and not hurt the encyclopedia this works for me. And you are 100 percent right about Quality over Quantity, I will try and remember this more. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 20:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, great. Wikipedia is amazingly inclusive. In the past, I nominated stuff for deletion which "normally" wouldn't be considered notable only to have it landslide kept. We have many notability guides, but really there is only one policy - if the subject has had a significant amount of coverage in at least two reliable sources it is notable. The guides just help to clarify what is or isn't significant coverage for a given genre. The only exception is "people that are famous for one event" which really means people that are accidentally famous as part of a larger event. (That is, it only applies if the person did not intend to become famous by their actions.) --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


Hi. This was deleted very quickly, before some collaborators could have expanded the article to explain relavance. The site has been a big part of a pretty important music and art scene, with it's roots in mid to late 90s UK electronic music, whilst also creating interest in said scene throughout the world. Some key players from that scene (and other similar scenes) regularly take part in the community, allowing for a focus that would not exist otherwise. The speedy deletion meant that the initial page was lost, and no one else was able to add to the article.

Although I understand that relavance might not be immediately apparent, but deletion within 5 minutes of the article being created is a little silly, especially without any time to defend the article.

Misterloz (talk) 22:00, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion Converted to PROD: Herbert and Dorothy Vogel[edit]

Hello HellinaBucket, and thanks for your work patrolling new changes. I am just informing you that I have changed a page you tagged (Herbert and Dorothy Vogel) from being tagged for speedy deletion to being tagged for proposed deletion. The speedy deletion criteria are very narrow, and do not fit the page in question. Consider reviewing the criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any queries, please let me know. Thanks again! NW (Talk) 01:48, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


Being in another language is not a criteria for speedy deletion. However, being in another language while the same article exists on a foreign-language wiki is. In this case, Guiak is not on the Spanish Wikipedia: [2]. Please use {{notenglish}} in the future.--Patar knight - chat/contributions 02:31, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Womble Multimedia[edit]

I think would have been better to have come back to this, rather than tagging it for deletion 1:02 minutes after creation. It was certainly not nonsense. A simple Google search would have revealed over 500 unique Google hits from which to have attempted to source this-- the subject is a multimedia company. As it sits, it now does not assert notability, but the creator may have been frightened off, and I certainly don't have time to try a rescue. So the upshot is we may have lost an article on a notable subject and a new editor. I would ask that you look for ways to build articles rather than being so hasty to tag them for deletion. Cheers, Dlohcierekim (talk) 02:49, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


Did you saw my discussion, in my article, about nelore bull Karvadi?Agre22 (talk) 03:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)agre22


not seeing the nonsense. not brilliant prose, but it does make sense. Dlohcierekim (talk) 03:02, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


—Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandor Clegane (talkcontribs) 16:40, June 12, 2009

Fake Games[edit]

Not sure that I agree this was vandalism. WP:AGF. Dlohcierekim (talk) 03:15, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

assume good faith doesn't extend to hoax pages. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 03:18, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


May want to think about requesting page protection on your user page... the kids are active tonight.    7   talk Δ |   12:16, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Gotta love vandal whiners.Hell in a Bucket (talk) 13:06, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
At least we're enjoying the ride.    7   talk Δ |   13:19, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
to quote the dead......

If a man among you

Got no sin upon his hand

Let him cast a stone at me

For playing in the band Hell in a Bucket ([[User talk:HellinaBucket#top|talk]]) 13:58, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Hell in a Bucket. You have new messages at Cunard's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Cunard (talkcontribs) 19:19, June 17, 2009

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cemetery of the Holy Rood[edit]

I think your issues with Cemetery of the Holy Rood have been fixed. If you withdraw the nom, and everyone switches to keep, I can speedy-close it. Thanks! --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:01, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! It was fun being able to do a real speedy keep instead of a WP:SNOW close. :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 00:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: Thank you[edit]

You're quite welcome. UntilItSleeps Public PC 14:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

My Article[edit]

Can you please remove the tag of deletion from my article. Colossal (talk) 18:39, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Done, please be aware that it is not "your article" see WP:OWN, all the best SpitfireTally-ho! 18:42, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Help with Page[edit]

Hi Hellinabucket, I'm new here. Can you tell me what items you feel should be addressed in the Jeff Hettwer page to make it, in your opinion, appropriate for Wikipedia? Thanks! MNartist (talk) 20:22, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi - I saw your previous note/mark for a page I have just created corizon and was a little confused. I think I have followed all the guidelines and compared this to other pages such as jackbe Can you advise if this is correct. Many thanks in advance. Nigel. Nigelwalsh (talk) 07:06, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Try to read WP:RS also the article appears to be mostly written as an advertisement. Is there ways the company is notable? Hell in a Bucket (talk) 07:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
thanks. I have had a quick look at this. The approach Corizon takes is very different from those mentioned here Enterprise_mashups and has a number of patents now pending, hence being notable. Its not meant as an advert, hence why I didn't include customers names as per the jackbe example. The approach taken is very different to that of others in the Mashup space. Also the article Enterprise_mashups doesn't differentiate between "consumer" mashups and "enterprise" - both significantly different. Does this help? Your guidance and advice much appreciated. I have also added some external links now to articles around SOA/books written on this topic. Thanks. nige. Nigelwalsh (talk) 07:47, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Please note, that notability is decided by reliable 3rd party coverage so if your above sources comply with that awesome, if not try and do some more research to establish notability. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 07:49, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
The source does help your cause, is there any other sort of articles like this? Hell in a Bucket (talk) 07:52, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, there is plenty - but I didnt want to include releases or customer details - as this to me would be more of an advert. e.g., Corizon is the platform of choice for BT - the UK's national carrier. there are plenty of sources online for this and now the platform of choice for some of the worlds leading system integration partners such as Logica, Accenture, Capgemini. There are a number of books written on this top too?. If I also compare to the Software_companies_of_the_United_States then each of these companies have a similar outlook than I have created here. Does this help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nigelwalsh (talkcontribs) 08:12, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Kinda, the problem is the lack of further sources, anything that is third party and reliable is a good source for inclusion. Based as it is the article is still more like an advertisment. That is only my opinion but I would suggest a re-write. Focus on how the company is notable. Haqte to put it this way but make it plain, remembe rthis is an encyclopedia not a forum to proclaim how unique a companies services are. Again this is my personal opinion and not a statment of correctness. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 08:18, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Sounds fair, Ill have another look at it - ultimately its a technical topic, so this is an extension of Service_oriented_architecture which itself could never be described at simple! With that, I don't believe it should be deleted until we refine. I'm confident we can get to a page that is representative of an encyclopedia. Nigelwalsh (talk) 08:35, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
have you also seen, as an example or this from I think I have demonstrated that this page is better structured, informative and I will list also as part of your quest to know more about computing. Nigelwalsh (talk) 08:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I've gone to the Jeff Hettwer deletion page but still don't find your explanation as to why you feel it should be deleted. I am still editing the page. I would love to hear your suggestions. MNartist (talk) 15:48, 28 June 2009 (UTC)



For some reason my archive isn't working it's supposed to archive evey 24 hours but as you can see it's not doings. It did once or twice the rest I hand archived. Can someone help me fix please? Hell in a Bucket (talk) 07:56, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

You have it set to 48 hours. Change the algo= parameter to old(24h). Xenon54 (talk) 16:00, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

The above problem still persists. I'm not too upset it is set to 48 hours but if you look tyhe archiver isn't workign I still have messages from 06/17. Can someone help me figure out why it's not working at all?Hell in a Bucket (talk) 20:32, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Your code is set to the default minimum number of threads to be left on a page, i.e. 5. Plus, I think, the bot does not recognise entries that are not datestamped. I'll datestamp the two entries 'Thanks' and 'Talkback' and add a line to the code for setting the minimum number of threads to be left on a page, which you can adjust as you want (personally, I find 5 sufficient). Will do this shortly. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 21:12, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I've made the adjustments. Let's see how it goes. If you want the bot to leave fewer than five threads on the page, adjust minthreadsleft = 5 to some other number. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 21:21, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

{{help me}} My problem still persists, If you notice no archiving since my help, What is going on? Is this a personal profile thing? I'm confused on why it wont work 2 people looked and says it should work. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 15:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

The only thing I can suggest now is doing it manualy. You can create pages like User:HellinaBucket/Archive and copy and paste your old messages into them.--Gordonrox24 | Talk 19:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
  • The bot archived a couple of threads on my talk page today so it's out and about! I have tweaked your coding a little, changing 48h to 2d. I'll keep an eye on your page to see if that does anything. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Hi, I've archived seven threads manually to see if that clears the blockage. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 22:01, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Comparison of PAV's[edit]

Exactly how can I make the article good enough to have the db template removed. I added references already; a original PAV list is not yet available anywhere on the web; I composed the list myself by browsing the links noted in the references and taking out the most valuable ones. I think the page is very valuable dough; eg to provide readers a fast comparison so they can pick the PAV which is best (cheapest, most useful) for them


In my opinion, if any comparison of aircraft need to be made they should be done on their own page. As is I can be wrong and that is only my opinion. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 17:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
As reviewing admin, I in any case declined the Speedy, because it was not "a very short article lacking context to establish the subject of the article". If you wish to have it deleted you will need to go to AfD. We have many articles "Comparison of ...", so that is not a reason for deletion. Myself, I am by no means sure it cannot be improved. What AfD will do of course is never predictable. DGG (talk) 17:42, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


Just a heads up -- the pages you just nominated for AfD (i.e., those Cotton Bowl pages) are all copyright violations from a Texas Football site. I've tagged the bulk of them with CSD templates, but those you already posted as AfD, I noted as requesting speedy delete on the AfD pages. --mhking (talk) 19:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

good catch works for me.!!Hell in a Bucket (talk) 23:28, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

hellinabucket-Todd Friel HOW?[edit]

How did i vandalise your page? How did i threaten to repeatedly vandalise pages? How did i insult you in any way? How have i done anything wrong? How do you want me to word my "discussions" in future? How in your eyes should i create a page not subject to your deletion? How have i been nothing but courteous and polite? Stakingsin (talk) 14:47, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Very Polite. However please see my page history and you will see where I erased it persistently.Hell in a Bucket (talk) 14:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

persistently reposting tyhe same comment is vandalism. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 14:51, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Look, i am really confused... I posted like one thing, and then a few comments, and i did not vandalise anything! I am a relatively new user... I don't really know much about this, and only created an account to specifically create around 4-5 articles, this one included, which i though were necessary! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stakingsin (talkcontribs) 14:57, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Stakingsin (talk) 14:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I had a rough start too. Mine was however much worse. I'd suggest that you look into the welcome format it might help you not make such a big splash. The words you were using such as I'll just wait for a while and recreate is what was innapropriate.Hell in a Bucket (talk) 14:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Heh! I was part of HellinaBucket's rough start, and it all turned out good. I've dropped a Template:Welcome on your (Stakingsin) talk page; it'll help you get used to Wikipedia and find your way around. Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 15:03, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Okay, i will bear that in mind when attempting to do articles, and get some sources aswell. Also i will try and get through the mountain of wiki rules n'stuff (like editing...etc) Stakingsin (talk) 15:02, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
it's easy once you get used to it. try reading wp:rs and the welcome I put on your page, if you'd like anymore help I'd love to do so. As you say you are very polite and courteous. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 15:03, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Do i have to discuss before i create a deleted article again, or does it depend on the reason/article? Cause i would really like to gather and share info on this guy, who is a christian radio presenter.Stakingsin (talk) 15:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Here's your best bet, create an article in the saqndbox. Tryu to find 3 reliable third party sources. when you have those hit me up. I'll help you add them in and we ca nmove to main wiki. this helps save the article while you work on it from being deleted. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 15:07, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
I am going to read the rules, and come to you for help/advice! thanks a lot for you welcoming attitude!
No problem, Good luck and I hope you come back soon.Hell in a Bucket (talk) 15:22, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


Thanks for reverting the vandalism to my talk page! Much appreciated! Rmosler | 17:30, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

npHell in a Bucket (talk) 17:37, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

June 2009[edit]

The only reason your account was not permanently blocked is because you agreed to stop editing pages that I am working on. That includes Operation Repo.

You have been vandalizing this article in the same manner ever since your account was created and you need to stop. This is violation of the agreement that you entered into when you begged for your account to be spared.

Do not edit articles that I am working on, and do not follow me by watching my contributions. This is harassment and is completely unacceptable behavior.

Stop hand nuvola.svg This is the only warning you will receive for your disruptive edits. If you vandalize Wikipedia again, as you did to Operation Repo, you will be blocked from editing. VegKilla (talk) 05:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I checked the edit in question and it wasn't even remotely vandalism. You (VegKilla) don't OWN the article and it is very much not appropriate to revert good faith edits you don't like as vandalism. --ThaddeusB (talk) 06:09, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I adamantly persist that this was blatant, repeated vandalism that HellinaBucket has already been warned about countless times. HellinaBucket was almost permanently blocked for making this exact edit to this exact article. The HellinaBucket account has been trying to make this edit to this article since the account was created. This article was protected to guard against this exact edit being made by anon ips, and further more, Hellina's edit summary of "changing verbage" was intentionally deceptive and is itself an act of vandalism, since it attempts to conceal the fact that the edit fundamentally changes the meaning of the first sentence of the article.VegKilla (talk) 06:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Above warning stands, you will be blocked from editing if you continue to vandalize Operation Repo.VegKilla (talk) 07:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Thankfully, VegKilla doesn't actually have the ability to block anyone and I seriously doubt any admin would block Hell in a Bucket for changing "faux reality show" into "television show". That is a content dispute, not vandalism. --ThaddeusB (talk) 15:48, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

  • The actual unblock conversation. (make what you will of it)

That looks reasonable to me - I suggest, HiaB, though, that you instigate absolutely no more contact with VegKilla in future, unless they specifically say it's OK. I also suggest (though this is of course a suggestion, not an enforceable ban) that you stay away from involvement in articles that VK edits for a while, until your bona fides are re-established. Tonywalton Talk 19:11, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree 100 percent. Can you please ask him to keep my name out of his mouth he started using it again as soon as my block was lifeted and a big part of the conflict was that whole thing. He's on OrangeMikes talkpage. Maybe tell him to let it go?HellinaBucket (talk) 19:15, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you and if either one see's me and I need help please drop a line. One day (far far in the future) I may be good enough to be an admin but for right now I just want to create my first Article. ThanksHellinaBucket (talk) 19:18, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

The above ("Can you please ask...") worries me. Please review WP:LASTWORD and WP:LETGO. Let it lie. If VK is interested they can comment further; if not just stay away from the situation. If you are genuinely hard-done-by take it to WP:AN/I but remember if you do so your own contributions will be examined, possibly to your detriment. And please leave the unblock template alone.

Blueboy96, have you any objection to an unblock? I'd WP:BB but a magewar is a dreadful thing to see ☺ Tonywalton Talk 19:24, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

No objection ... since he does understand he has to watch himself from now on. Blueboy96 19:54, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Unblocked. HellinaBucket, welcome back, but do remember you can be reblocked at any time, and the next time it may well remain indefinite! Tonywalton Talk 20:18, 9 May 2009 (UTC)" There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 17:38, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I have opened a thread at ANI over this to comment on my behaviors here. There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 18:01, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Twinkle issue after account rename[edit]


oops sorry for capsHellinaBucket (talk) 23:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
I think you'll have to re-install twinkle in your new account. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 23:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
How do I go about doing that? I don't recall doing so before. HellinaBucket (talk) 01:01, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd go into Special:Preferences, click on "Gadgets" and check, save, and recheck the box for Twinkle. (How did you install Twinkle originally?)—C45207 | Talk 05:21, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Have you checked your monobook.js yet? MacMedtalkstalk 23:13, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
I can't edit my monobook.There is a road, No simple Highway (talk) 06:06, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Hey. Twinkle won't work on some Browsers so that could be your problem.--Gordonrox24 | Talk 05:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

{{helpme}} My issue is clearly not fixed. This is incredibly apparent if the closer read the thread as it is I'd still ike a solution. There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 06:39, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

You say that you can't edit your monobook.js. What is the error message? Have you tried disabling and re-enabling Twinkle from Special:Preferences? How did you initially install Twinkle? It appears that we all need a little more information to help you.—C45207 | Talk 06:50, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

LI use firefox btw.There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 06:41, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I suggest you go into the Preferences -> Gadgets, un-check the box beside Twinkle and save. Then CTRL+F5 refresh, and re-enable Twinkle. There is no need to edit the monobook.js for default functionality btw. If this doesn't work, then post your question here. Best of luck! --MiloKral (talk) 07:44, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Hello, My page" Scream Savannah (the band) was recently tagged, please send message, in effort to help, because I have reviewed the Deletion Criteria, and find nothing wrong with my article.-ZDubb100 —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZDubb100 (talkcontribs) 23:57, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Tribute to michael jackson[edit]

Moved to Talk:Tribute to michael jackson so that the {{hangon}} template text makes sense.—C45207 | Talk 07:51, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I am not autoconfirmed, found source of problem[edit]



I believe I know why twinkle isn't working, I'm not showing up as auto-confirmed anymore, is there a way for an admin to make me Autoconfirm. I recently changed muy username but have authored several article Runyon Lake, Lake Pueblo State Park, Blackneck garter snake. I use twnikle for new page patrol and it is currently not available due to my sts classification. There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 17:15, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Page creation[edit]

I'm fairly new to wikipedia, but an article you flagged, "Dan Farnworth" is an article I consider to be about a somewhat important person, as he has contributed to the trap shooting sport and shoots with gold olympic winner Jules Sobrian, he's only 16 and is a very good shot, thanks for looking over the page though man

NP, first please read [[wp:rs}} it will help you establish reliable notability. If you have speciffic questions please feel free to ask. There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 18:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


Hi, it looks like you've got Twinkle working again. Is the autowatch working OK? --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:43, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

yes sir, thank you. It was really simple I was logging into my old username not the new one. Duh jake. There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 02:10, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


Sarek raises an expressive eyebrow at you. :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:55, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

how would i start an arbitrition hearing and is it really going to fix anything other then further escalate his feelings of ill will towards me? There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 19:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
It would be closed almost immediately if you opened it at this point. The Arbcom likes to see that all the steps in dispute resolution have been followed before coming to them. A request for comment might do some good, but it might be better just to back off and ignore him. (I was talking about your revert/unrevert of my edit on the arbreq page, rather than making a suggestion, btw.)--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:32, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Ok total misunsderstanding. I was reverting a csd tag removal. I unfortunately see double vision and so sometimes I hit the wrong buttons. Apoligies, There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 19:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christel House International[edit]

regarding this comment...ugh, don't get me started...Bmg916Speak 18:58, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I dont understand your nomination of deletion for the Chaldean Syriac Assyrian Popular Council. The party won the last round of Christian elections in Iraq in January and is running in the upcoming Iraqi Kurdistan legislative election, 2009. I think thats significant enough, dont you think? Iraqi (talk) 15:48, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
the reason I tagged it is the lack of 3rd party coverage. Can you provide sources for it as applies to wp:rs? There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 15:50, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Sure, no problem. Iraqi (talk) 15:55, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Coll once we get those added we can show it's notable and poof goes the deletion tags!There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 15:56, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

speedy reasons[edit]

Bus stations and other places and buildings cannot be deleted by speedy A7 as non-notable. And any subject passes the very low bar for A7 by making even a modest indication of importance, and does not need sources to prove it--the bar for WP:N is much higher. Please read WP:CSD carefully and only nominate what fits in the categories listed. But remember to check any article that uses promotional language or lists extensive contact information for copyvio. McAllen Central Station was a straight copy of their website, and I speedy-deleted it for that reason. Copyvio is hard to dispute. DGG (talk) 21:06, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely it is hard to dispute. Good catch. Now let me pose a question for thought. There is a very small bus station in Glenwood Springs Co. So small in fact it's incorporated into a gas station, by your rationale above it is worthy of inclusion. Would you like to reconsider that? There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 22:59, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
He didn't say it was worth of inclusion, just that it wasn't speedy deletable. The speedy deletion criteria (purposely) don't cover all topics that aren't eligible for articles. Speedy deletion is a "shortcut" deletion method for unambiguous cases and is limited to a small # of articles that the community has decided can easily be judged by only 2 editors (the tagger & the deleting admin). For all other cases, the use of PROD or AfD is required because the community feels these subjects require more than two sets of eyes to determine notability or lack there of.
A7 covers people/bands, companies/organizations, and web content only - all other subjects can't be speedy deleted as "non-notable." --ThaddeusB (talk) 23:11, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Well in some cases better safe then sorry I guess. No worries. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 13:34, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

First, to be clear I haven't really watched your activity recently, so I can't personally say how you are doing. I was merely trying to explain what DGG was saying above. I can, however, explain the CSD criteria in a general sense.

Since you asked, the problem with this nomination wasn't that the bus station was notable (it may or may not be), but simply that it wasn't eligible for speedy deletion. Only people and companies can be speedy deleted as non-notable, A7 doesn't cover other subjects. So things like products, buildings, made up words, etc. can't (properly) be speedy deleted. That isn't to say no admin would ever delete such things if nominated, because sometimes admins ignore the rules and delete them anyway. However, according the CSD criteria they shouldn't, and such things will usually be declined.

Based on some of the messages you've received, it appears that you feel an article needs to prove notability. While that is correct in an ultimate sense, it is incorrect in a speedy deletion sense. To avoid speedy deletion, an article only needs to assert notability, not prove it - lack of sources isn't a speedy deletion. criteria Thus if an article has unsourced claims of notability, it can't be speedy deleted, but rather the issue must be solved in another way (editing, PROD, or AfD). (Of course outright hoaxes can still be speedy deleted.)

Additionally, the bar to asserting notability is pretty low. Although it varies form admin to admin, generally statements like "Bob Smith is a successful movie producer" or "The Junk Band is a popular rock band in the Phoenix area" are considered assertions of notability.

The reason the speedy deletion criteria are so narrowly constructed is that speedy deletion is against the general spirit of Wikipedia; normally decisions are made by the community, not by individuals. The community acknowledges that speedy deletion is necessary to limit people abusing Wikipedia for self-promotion and hoaxing, and also to keep AfD manageable. However, the criteria on purposefully limited to only the areas where it is really needed - hoaxes, attack pages, copyright violations, and self-promotion. Thus, A7 applies only to types of pages that are regularly created as self-promotion; people often try to promote themselves or their company, but rarely other subjects.

In short, it is probably best to use PROD for things that don't clearly fall into the CSD criteria. The downside of PROD is anyone, including the article's creator, can legitimately remove the tag and it can't be re-added once removed. That is unlikely to be an issue if the creator has moved on, but if you are tagging it 2 minutes after it was created they will probably see the tag and remove it.

Hope that clears things up some, but feel free to ask any follow up questions you may have. --ThaddeusB (talk) 16:23, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok so in a speedy delete situation, if the article claims to notability then it should go to a prod or afd format? Hadn't really considered that.Hell In A Bucket (talk) 23:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes, according to policy an assertion of notability is sufficient to avoid speedy deletion. Of course, what counts as a valid assertion is open to interpretation and varies from admin to admin. However, a lack of sources by itself is never sufficient reason for speedy deletion. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
P.S. Thanks for the barnstar. It means a lot to me coming from someone with whom I have butted heads with. For what it is worth, I think you are definitely improving as an editor. The mere fact that you are attempting to take criticism into account is very encourage and is a major plus in my book. :) --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Travis Lane Stork[edit]

That was not a copyvio. it was a copy paste from Wikipedia. Cheers, Dlohcierekim 23:10, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

came up as copy vio by corenbot, My bad. There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 23:11, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Usually if it's a copy/paste from Wikipedia, and it's plausible, it's best to turn it into a redirect. :) Happy editing! t'shaelchat 23:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Your sig[edit]

confused me. cheers Dlohcierekim 23:12, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

you're the second to tell me I might have to change it. There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 23:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
I changed it back to my older one, should be much less confusing. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 02:47, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
I like you user name. Dlohcierekim 14:15, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Splurve Ball[edit]

Just a quick note 'cause you'll be heading to RFA some day and this might bite you. This technically does not qualify as WP:Nonsense. Doesn't assert any significance either, though obviously should be CSD, it is not. I'm gonna leave it alone because a bolder admin than I will probably delete it per WP:SNOW and/or WP:IAR. The RFA cabal has been stricter about this stuff than a lot of CSD'ers, so new admin candidates think they're doing it right when there taggings are successful, and then they get opposed for it at RFA. Cheers, Dlohcierekim 14:13, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Already a redlink <<grin>> Dlohcierekim 14:14, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Somehow I think it will be a cold day in hell when I get past an RFA, I sent a message to ThaddueB regarding my taggins because I have made a couple of questionable calls, do you have any suggestion that I may be missing. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 14:16, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
You'd be surprised. There are plenty of admins who'll admit to a less-than-glorious history. Being able to acknowledge past mistakes counts for a great deal, in my view. Cheers, TFOWRThis flag once was red 14:25, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, just be very strict in using CSD's. There is always PROD. If a subject has ref's or Ghits, there is always AFD. Don't forget article building. The RFA crowd loves article building. "A good balance of edits." Dlohcierekim 14:28, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

re:Olli olli 12[edit]

User has been blocked now - Kingpin13 (talk) 15:00, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

good thing, that was clearly vandalism. I asked the admin how it wasn't but I didn't get an answer backk. I am impatient though. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 15:01, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

AFAN FM[edit]

Why are you doing this ? It's totally relevent to wikipedia and i have sources! Jonny7003 (talk) 15:26, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

how is it relevant to wikipedia? wp:rs Hell In A Bucket (talk) 15:27, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Because it's a new radio station and Afan FM network exists. I said, I have sources. Any station worth putting on wikipedia starts off with an article - so why delete it ? Pointless. Jonny7003 (talk) 15:29, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

existance doesn't mean it's notable, but make your case on the talk page and the reviewing admin will have to make that call. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 15:30, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


I did express my concerns about the article, hence why it was tagged for deletion. If you'd like help please ask but don't flame/yell on my page. wp:agf Hell In A Bucket (talk) 15:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

How can I yell on an internet page ? I'm typing not talking. Jonny7003 (talk) 15:37, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

The person to take up the deletion with would be deleting admin. Could someone pont me to the deleted article? I'd be happy to offer an opinion. ALLCAPS is yelling. Dlohcierekim 15:39, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
typing in CAPS is considered yelling. Just a helpful fyi since you didn't know. Would you like me to help see if we can get an article ready for wiki? there are ways to do it and have it totally ready for mainspace wiki. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 15:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
yes please thanks :) Jonny7003 (talk) 15:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

By the way dloh, I aam on the request for rollback and there was a request for another comment fo rit. Can you shime in or have someother admin review it? Hell In A Bucket (talk) 15:42, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

@Jonny-- Looks like they meet WP:CSD as advertising and as not notable businesses. As a side note, I've seen articles about individual radios stations. As such, they might b notable while the companay running them, the "brand" is not. @hell. I'll take a look. Cheers, Dlohcierekim 15:46, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Of course, Hell - I'm popping out for a while but i'll be back soon and we'll discuss further. Thanks for the help Jonny7003 (talk) 15:49, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

deletion page[edit]

I agree this page is spam Wits online education. If the tag is removed from the page by another user other than the article creator I am certaintly willing to nominate it at afd. happy editing Ottawa4ever (talk) 15:01, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

looks like they allready beat us. Good looking out and keep up the good work. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 15:02, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


OW. Can you point to the AN/i thread? ( My neck hurts, may be offline a while.) Dlohcierekim 15:51, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

  • copy of thread, archived page 549

Two months ago I had a extended altercation with Vegkilla. I was extremely rude and inappropriate and very verbally abusive to him and admin. I recvd a few blocks for these behaviors. I did as my contribution show calm down and regret my behavior and apologized to all invovled. I recieved a last block in which I agreed not to contact that user again unless invited. Also there was a reccomendation to avoid pages with Vegkilla editing until I "reestablished my bona-fides" I have been accused of violating the terms of my unblock and unfairly warned in a situation that is clearly nothing but good faith. I would like uninvovled admin to please look at me and my contributions and clarify if my actions were incorrect and how to change them in the future. Also I will npot be posting the ani posting on Vegkillas page as to do so would invite more conflict, if someone could please help him out I would appreciate it. There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 18:00, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and notified user:VegKilla of this thread. -T'Shael,The Vulcan Overlord 16:01, 24 June 2009 (UTC 18:12, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
As one of the admins who blocked HiaB for the earlier poor behaviour I would note that I feel that he has moved forward greatly over the last weeks, and has transformed himself into a good faith editor. I do not think that VegKilla's attitude is appropriate in referring to that previous instance over what may be considered a minor content dispute. I note that a couple of people have noted to VegKilla that his current responses are indicative of overreaction, but to date the only responses have been further references to the old instance. LessHeard vanU (talk) 18:29, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
The somments such as this is teh most bothering to me. I would invite Vegkilla to strike those accusations.

"I adamantly persist that this was blatant, repeated vandalism that HellinaBucket has already been warned about countless times. HellinaBucket was almost permanently blocked for making this exact edit to this exact article. The HellinaBucket account has been trying to make this edit to this article since the account was created. This article was protected to guard against this exact edit being made by anon ips, and further more, Hellina's edit summary of "changing verbage" was intentionally deceptive and is itself an act of vandalism, since it attempts to conceal the fact that the edit fundamentally changes the meaning of the first sentence of the article.VegKilla (talk) 06:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

HellinaBucket is a vandal. Unfortunately, ThaddeusB is not familiar with this issue. I directly oppose everything that ThaddeusB has said as being completely false and unwarranted (I specifically deny that Hellina's edit was a mistake and was not deliberate vandalism).VegKilla (talk) 06:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

"What I did accuse Hellina of, was of vandalism: making the same edit to the Operation Repo article that he has been trying to make since April. He has repeated this act of vandalism by removing words like "faux" or "scripted" from the article, and this is vandalism because it is introducing false information. I also accused Hellina of violating the agreement he made when he was making a plea to avoid a permanent block....

The concept of "assuming good faith" does not apply to this situation, because as I said earlier, this is not a new issue. This is an edit that Hellina has made to this article countless times, and has been warned and even blocked for persisting in this issue. Furthermore, Hellina's edit summary "changing verbage" is intentionally deceptive.

If Hellina wants to continue to vandalize Operation Repo, then he can start a new account, and (not knowing who he is) I'll start him out at a level 1 warning again. If Hellina wants to make helpful contributions to Operation Repo without introducing false information or using deceptive edit summaries, then he can (and does), because as you can see from the edit history, I don't even blink when he makes constructive contributions VegKilla (talk) 17:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)" There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 18:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

  • I was involved (with another non-admin, Neutralhomer, in the previous incident here when there seemed to be a shortage of admins (Saturday morning in the EU, the wee small hours of Saturday in the US). At the time I suppose I sided with VegKilla, since Hell in a Bucket's conduct was, as they acknowledge above, unseemly. Since then I've been following both VegKilla and Hell in a Bucket, and they appeared to have disengaged and generally become good members of the community. Unlike ThaddeusB I am familiar with the background to this; however, I do have to agree with ThaddeusB that VegKilla's allegation of vandalism is completely inappropriate. I'd view Hell in a Bucket's edit as good faith. I do not regard Hell in a Bucket as a vandal. Cheers, TFOWRThis flag once was red 18:54, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

For the record, here is the supposed vandalism edit: [3] and here is the very strongly worded warning it received: [4]. To me, this is clearly a content dispute and not at all vandalism. I take no position on the correctness of the edit, but I feel strongly that the threat it generated was way over-the-top.

VegKilla went on the accuse Hell in a Buck of "following his edits around," which I consider a serious accusation without basis. VegKilla has mostly only edited Operation Repo for the last month. He has made 15 edits to the article (mostly reverts) while Hell has made 6. It is pretty hard to stalk someone through a total of 1 page. Again, this is a content dispute not stalking.

I do understand that these two have had conflict in the past, however that does not excuse making threats of "permanently blocking" over a minor changing of the words. At worst, this is a slow moving edit war - and it takes two to edit war.

Additionally, VegKilla has been jumping straight to L4 warnings every time an IP vandalizes the page. He seems to think ever IP edit is really coming from Hell in a Bucket, which is highly unlikely IMO. I have advised him to step back from the article for a while, as he seems to have lost focus and is emotionally involved to an unhealthy level. I believe this is good advice and stand by it. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:58, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

  • For someone with "no familiarity" of the issues behind this incident, you seem to have summarised it nicely ;-) I agree entirely that this is a context dispute - heck, I agree with everything you've said. VegKilla needs to step back. Cheers, TFOWRThis flag once was red 19:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
VegKilla's objection is a change away from describing Operation Repo as a "faux reality show." As far as I know, that's not a genre name that is widely used by anyone. In my opinion, Hell in a Bucket's proposed change is not only not vandalism, but is a very reasonable edit. I've weighed in on the talk page regarding the genre discussion, and added the article to my watchlist- I'm conerned that User:VegKilla may have a slight case of WP:OWN. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 19:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Apparently the user is not going to review our thread and is "taking a long wikibreak". I would like to thank everyone who weighed in here and for the support for my turnaround. I do want it to be known that I hold my hand out in friendship to VegKilla, my actions before were completely inappropriate and I sincerely apoligize again for it to him. I hope you understand I am sincere and would love to reach a consensus with you at a later time of your choosing. There is a Road, No Simple Highway (talk) 20:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


I think it would be better to give it another month. you reverted a CSD tag removal as vandalism and then removed the tag yourself? To be honest, I don't think Rollback gives the user that much, and even though I have it, I often leave an edit summary anyway 'cause in believe in communication. Don't be discouraged, keep pounding away at it. I'm not denying on the rollback page though. You might want to ask Fisher or one of the other admins involved in your recent troubles. Dlohcierekim 16:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Either way it's cool because as you say it's not far different from TW. Not worth losing sleep over. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 16:24, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
I like twinkle cause it's fast enough to offset my physical limitations, slow enough to keep me out of trouble, and leaves an edit summary. Dlohcierekim 16:28, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
With rollback you get a whole load of "rollback" links all over your watchlist, which inevitably you click instead of "diff" links, and then have to go and self-revert, apologise to everyone concerned, etc! There's a monobook.js or CSS hack that fixes this, but still... For what it's worth, I'm currently considering Twinkle. With rollback you need to consider each and every time - is this obvious vandalism, and, if there's any chance it's a good faith edit then you use "undo" instead. Twinkle sounds a whole lot more straightforward. Cheers, TFOWRThis flag once was red 17:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
I must agree with TFOWR. It's not too much fun having to explain to an admin why you reverted their comment at AIV. :) Cheers, t'shaelchat 23:10, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
NO biggie folks, with double vision problems allready might be more of a headache then it's worth. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 23:13, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Melissa palmer (doctor) Need help to find out why speedy deletion If my amazon blog needs to be deleted I will do that. Please Help Rags11749 (talk) 04:02, 5 July 2009 (UTC) Melissa palmer, MD

Grand Tower Island[edit]

Thanks! I visited it on Saturday, and I was surprised to see that it didn't have its own article already. I've visited a couple of "wrong side" islands in the past (Kaskaskia, Illinois a year ago, and a few times driving over Green River Island near Evansville, Indiana), so this one I found just as interesting as the rest. Nyttend (talk) 16:14, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

That's one of the exciting things about going to new places and finding gems to write about! Hell In A Bucket (talk) 16:16, 4 November 2013 (UTC)