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Shapur II[edit]

I made some wording changes to your edit, hope that was alright. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:05, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Kansas Bear: Actually I had already changed that piece of information in the edit I am doing right now, but sure - your writing style is way better than mine, appreciate it ! :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:08, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, though I think I messed up your last edit. I will let you fix it, again. Sorry about that. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:13, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
Kansas Bear: No that's fine! help is always appreciated, and as I said - your writing style is way better than mine, so I'm glad you made that edit. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:15, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
No problem. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:17, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
@HistoryofIran:, you don't like the previous pic? I was wondering, will you perhaps, if you won't re-add it to the infobox, add it somewhere else in the article? It's a beautiful plate. I see you're very busy on the article, so I won't interfere now, and thought I'd propose it to you better. )) - LouisAragon (talk) 21:17, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Well, the plate is beautiful, but this one is a better portrayal of him, but sure - I'll add the plate picture somewhere. Can't do it right now cuz there is no space for the picture, so yeah.. plenty of work to do :(. Hopefully I finish this one. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:21, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
Aaaaightt, thanks dude. Yeah that plate is just amazing and should def receive a spot. Btw, idk why, but those busts of Shapur have so much lightning on them that it spoils their awesomeness (I mean look at his headgear; can't get more badass than that). Haha. Btw, something different, I added Category:Iranian noble families to Undiladze. Do you agree with that? They were Georgian in ethnicity and origin, but they served for 100% in the Iranian ranks. Let me know sometime whenever you got time.
Anyway bro, the main reason I came here is just to wish you a very happy new year in advance! Hope you will have a nice celebration tonight! - LouisAragon (talk) 20:50, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


im on my phone so i make this simple abd quick: no thats a bad thing to do, for ezample imagine what ideas pan-nationalists (especially pan-turks rip) will get with this, they werent Iranian so i dont think it should be there, it would be a mess. lets keep it simple, and happy new year to u m8 :)!

Lel, Türkiye bir numera (put that in translate if you don't speak some Turkish). Never 4get, gretest country. Aight i will remove it then. - LouisAragon (talk) 00:52, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: btw i dont think it is a good idea either to add 1st-century Greek people category on non-Greeks. The Iranian people of Greek descent category should maybe be added instead. Categories like these can be misunderstood and used by other people as a part of their nationalistic ideology and as you know the parthian kings werent greek but that category implies that

I concur. I will change it. Btw, it should be changed on Tiridates I of Armenia as well, I think? He was the brother of the Parthian king, nota bene. Should I add "people of Greek descent" to the aforementioned article, or "Iranian people of Greek descent."? - LouisAragon (talk) 19:46, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: "Iranian people of Greek descent" is the most accurate one if you ask me. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:48, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran:, yeah, I thought so myself as well. Started fixing some of it accordingly. If you happen to stumble more across such things, please do as well. (especially as there are tons of Iranian rulers from the pre-islamic era that were partly Greek). - LouisAragon (talk) 20:24, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: sure mate --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:26, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
@HistoryofIran:, mate, regarding this edit; the Achaemenids didnt hold any land beyond the lower banks of the Indus River. We've been making that map after extensive talks, some months ago. Furthermore, its completely modelled after maps made by academics. We should really re-instate it. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:36, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: I was referring to Central Asia, I'm pretty sure the Achaemenids held much more land there than it shows on the map? Looking on the current map, it seems that some parts of Sogdia isn't even included as part of their territory. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:40, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

I dont think that was the intention of the maker, if really any noticeable part of Sogdia is omitted. But I'd say its pretty "well" covered on the map? I cant see any "major" parts of it being omitted? Yeah, I thought so as well initially that they held more areas initially, but then I found out that they never really managed to control the regions "we both have in mind" (above Uzbekistan and such). The peoples of that region were way too agressive and nomadic to put actual effective control over. - LouisAragon (talk) 03:29, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: sogdia was a larger region back then, and since it was a achaemenid province, the territorries in the east should be larger (not that large as you think im saying) I'll take a closer look on it tommorow. I'll try to see if I can make a more detailed map later, something resembling the map of the ayyubid dynasty.

Aight, sure thing man. Btw, regarding the Sajid dynasty and the Sallarid dynasty infoboxes. I added "Eurasia" for the formers' continent, and "Caucasus, Middle East" for the latters' region. Fine with you? (dont really care about those labels, just to keep in mind what your personal stance is on such things, as imo large parts of the "South Caucaus", except Georgia and swaths of the Rep. of Azerbaijan, is really 110% Asia to me, and was apart from that always like that historically as well as cited by numerous authors). Perhaps continent-> "Eurasia", and region -> "Middle East" suffices the best for both? - LouisAragon (talk) 08:29, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: sure --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:27, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Check dizz btw;

(...) "Heraclius II, after his occupation of Erivan in 1749 and defeat of his former ally Azad in 1751-2, could afford largely to ignore the changing situation south of the Aras. After it became obvious that Mashhad (a minor Afsharid remnant at that time) was no longer the seat of the government, and probably about the time of the Zand army's progress through Azarbaijan (1762-1763), Heraclius tendered his submission to the Zand Vakil and received his diploma as Vali of Gurjistan - the traditional Safavid office, by this time an empty honorific."

- Fisher et al. (1991). The Cambridge History of Iran Vol. 7. page 96 Cambridge University Press, 10 okt. 1991 ISBN 978-0521200950
Though Karim Khan most likely didnt have much (or even any) control over Georgia, dont forget Heraclius even delivereed the wanna-be Azad Khan Afghan to Karim Khan Zand as well, when he defeatedd him. For the record, this is historically very important that he even formally acknowledged his submissive status to the Iranian king, something thats conservatively (almost dogmatic) and usually taken to have ended with the death of Nader Shah in 1747, until the reconquest of Tbilisi by Agha Mohammad Khan in 1795 (Battle of Krtsanisi). I didnt know this myself btw until today. Did you? - LouisAragon (talk) 07:55, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Me neither, sounds interesting. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:32, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Yeah indeed. Btw, thanks again for linking this site. It has some pretty ok stuff, though most of the material in my opinion is rather "general" material rather than the specific material (people etc, notable individuals, not-monarchs though) we're both often looking for (as well as that many of the stuff thats cool is already to be found on Wikimedia). I assume you dont have some site for that as well? Haha. For the princes, generals, viziers, other noted people, etc.? Btw take a look at this peculiar pic I managed to upload today. Dat "Juan" though. - LouisAragon (talk) 14:10, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Nah, unfortunately that's the best site I know :( --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:09, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Ok no probs! We'll figure more ways out for ourselves. Btw, which version do you like more? I requested an image enhancement at the graphics lab, but it seems the previous version was better looking? What do you say? - LouisAragon (talk) 14:09, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
Also mate, by any circumstance, do you have access to any sources that name all Safavid ambassadors, governors, etc? I just created another article about a noted Safavid governor (Mohammad Reza Beg), but if we had the full lists, it would be so much better. - LouisAragon (talk) 09:54, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Sadly not. Btw as you can see I am once again much more inactive - I will probably continue to do so since the holiday has ended. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:51, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
I see. Well, thanks for letting me know. (btw, did you at last manage to check you mail? Haha) I'm also most certainly gonna drop some activity due to that. - LouisAragon (talk) 16:46, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: No because my email's still having problems :( --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:30, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Tahir ibn Husayn[edit]

Hello HistoryofIran! I was translating your version of the article Tahir ibn Husayn to and I'm having a problem with the second paragraph of the first section. Could you help me? I read all the book you put and I glanced the Encyclopedia of Islam, Encyclopaedia Iranica and The Cambridge History of Iran and none of these sources mention any episode involved Tahir loosing one of his eyes and either that he was named "al-A'war". Moreover, I can't find any information about him being imprisoned and mistreated by Ali ibn Isa ibn Mahan. Could you please say what source did you read to include that paragraph? The only information of this paragraph that I confirmed was that he was involved in Harthama ibn A'yan's campaign against Rafi ibn al-Layth in 808.--Renato de carvalho ferreira (talk) 02:17, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Renato de carvalho ferreira: I have no idea why I didn't add the sources for that information back then, anyway, I remember the thing about his eye is from this source [2]. However I can't remember the source about him being mistreated. One sec. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:23, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

I was reading the Iranica's article and there is a mention, indeed a Daniel's supposition, that he was maybe involved in Rafi's revolt before working together with Harthama to suppress it due Ali mistreated him. The only thing I can't find now is just he being imprisoned.--Renato de carvalho ferreira (talk) 07:19, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Renato de carvalho ferreira: Ops, forgot to respond to this yesterday; Yeah, unfortunately I couldn't find the source about him being imprisoned after some searching :(. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:29, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 15[edit]

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Achaemenid Empire map[edit]

Heyy man,

How are you doing these days? Enduring the weather well? Haha. I wanted to bring this matter up; I remember you told some days ago that you perhaps wanted to create a new superb map of the Achaemenid Empire, alike the map provided on the Ayyubid dynasty article. Are you still up for creating this? If so, let me know, and I'll aid you as much as I can regarding sourcing. Or is there anything else atm you want to focus on? In either cases, let me know. :-) PS: it seems the issues with your email didn't get solved, did they? Take care. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:54, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: If I have time, then sure. Sadly I do not have the time right now :(. Btw yeah I'm thinking about creating a new email, I'll keep you updated on it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:17, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: sigh [3] --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:01, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Aight man, keep me indeed updated about it. ;-) It's pretty important. - LouisAragon (talk) 19:44, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: yay it's working --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:56, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Good, good. The same mail address as priorly right? Btw, should Gregory the Illuminator be added to the list of notables on the House of Suren page? - LouisAragon (talk) 20:25, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: yep to both. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:41, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Ok! Btw, ever read this new one by Willem Floor? Some top notch material I have to say. Btw, I received some new great references from the OTRS staff some days ago specifically regarding the numerous Georgian gholam families in the Safavid administration. Will be some nice articles. - LouisAragon (talk) 20:27, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

- I think I have.

- Nice, but wat is a OTRS staff? And how do you get sources from them? --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:33, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant JSTOR not OTRS, haha. Here you can request (parts of) any paper, book, journal, etc, you'd like to have. It's great. - LouisAragon (talk) 20:36, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Niceee :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:39, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, it surely is mate. Have you ever used it? If not, you should definetely not hesitate to, might you need something. Response time is pretty short as well, shorter than you'd expect. They basically have access to any source in the world. - LouisAragon (talk) 20:52, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Nice - when you say parts of, how much do you ca. mean? Cuz I'm in need of much information. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:55, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Well, as of like 2 months ago, I started asking quite some stuff through JSTOR, and I received everything I needed. You can ask whole chapters and stuff. As long as its not a whole book basically, its all right. (I believe its because they have to scan everything in manually namely, if they dont have it on some hard-drive, haha). But yeah, ask as much as you want/need; they'll provide you with it. Here's my last request thats still visible on the page; I received all the material like two weeks ago, as you see from the date of my request, in quite a fast time. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:08, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Nice, will do - thanks :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:10, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
Mate, check your mail, sent you some sources. - LouisAragon (talk) 15:59, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated[edit]

Hi, I'm Hot Pork Pie. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Siyah al-Uswari, and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you. Hot Pork Pie 22:53, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

wat --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:34, 20 January 2016 (UTC)


I saw your reverts on Ghormeh sabzi. Based on my experience, it's not really helpful when you deal with multiple-account users. The best solution is WP:SPI. Report obvious evidences (for example, [4], [5], [6]) and let admins deal with them. --Zyma (talk) 22:23, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Alright, will do if the problem continues, thanks :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:25, 24 January 2016 (UTC)


Hey. Should we add Category:16th-century Iranian people, Category:17th-century Iranian people, and Category:18th-century Iranian people to the major Category:People of the Safavid Empire category? - LouisAragon (talk) 04:27, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: I know I've used this card many times, but I think it would be too much of a mess, and (here it comes) other articles don't normally tend to do that. Besides, as you know, not all of the people of the Safavid Empire were of Iranian descent. I'm having an important test tommorow, so I don't know when I'll answer you back in my mail. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:15, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Aight. Sure, leave me a reply whenever you happen to have time mate. Btw, any idea where we can get the coloured version of this pic? If we could find it (even if its copyrighted) I can ask the graphics lab to give our own pic the original color scheme. Good luck with your test! :-) - LouisAragon (talk) 17:50, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Nope, tried to find it some time ago, wasn't very fortunate :/. Btw emailed you back. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:22, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
Ai, yeah, already thought so. Too bad. :/ Btw, should Category:Rebellions in Iran be added to the Category:Rebellions against the Safavid Empire and Category:Rebellions against the Sasanian Empire cats? Gn for now mate. - LouisAragon (talk) 00:05, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Hmmm, since not all of the rebellions/revolts were in Iran, it would be kinda misfitting - maybe we could use Category:Rebellions against empires and Category:Medieval rebellions (for the Sasanians ofc) instead? That's what other empire articles do. Actually I honestly don't know, maybe Category:Rebellions in Iran could be used as well, I have no idea. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:39, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, its kinda a hard one. Back then, the territory was part of Iran, but its not nowadays. And not all rebellions took place in what is nowadays Iran, unlike, for example, the Russian Empire (the latter which therefore also has the category Category:Rebellions in Russia rightfully so) Lets just leave it actually. How did your test go btw? :-) Btw, I just made Shahverdi Sultan, but most of the material regarded him needs to be downloaded and is not really easy to be found. Do you by any chance have some stuff about him somewhere? - LouisAragon (talk) 18:34, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

- It didn't go well, luckily it wasn't an important one, and doesn't count for anything. It was a Latin test, aka "the don't make me commit suicide test". I really HATE Latin, luckily I will have never have something about it again.

- I do have a few small sources about him, but you could always send the source(s) of him through the email, so I could expand it even more. The article needs some changes, for a start, the infobox doesn't look really fitting, but that's just my opinion. I'll help you in a sec. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:40, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Ahhhhh you had one of those "termination" tests? Yeah, those are so annoying to put it polite. We never really have them "separately", as in separate tests about them, and usually they're just incorporated as part of the main test itself. But yeah, I obviously understand your qq. Just saw your changes on the article - thanks a lot mate. Nice job. Btw, I have the same infobox at Mohammad Reza Beg - should it be removed there as well? Personally, I think it looks pretty ok there at least. - LouisAragon (talk) 22:12, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: No because the Mohammad Reza Beg article has a picture and much information, which the Shahverdi article don't. Maybe the context of the infobox should be changed but other than that it's good. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:35, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Yeah. Btw, do you concur with the structure as used here in the lede? (as in, whether it kinda overlaps with how you formulate ledes regarding such people). - LouisAragon (talk) 21:55, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Hmmm.. I'm not sure, it's fine I guess - made som minor changes. Btw, Bayg/Bek/ should always be written as 'Beg' in Safavid articles and the dynasties that follow. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:38, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Haji Bektash Veli[edit]

What would you say to showing both possible origins? FYI, I searched my copy of EoI, Vol. I and could not find anything about Nishapur. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:22, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Kansas Bear: Ops, accidently restored that part, soz - will remove it now. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:30, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Abu'l-Hasan Isfaraini or Ab-ol-abbas Esfarayeni[edit]

Dear HistoryofIran, recently I found out a controversy about the vizierateship of these father and son. While Iranica has an article about the first one and mention him as vizier of Mahmud of Ghazni, Encyclopaedia Islamica has an article for the second one which consider him as the first vizier of Mahmud! Furthermore there is a verse from Ferdowsi about Ab-ol-abbas Esfarayeni:

Kojā fazl rā masnad o marqad ast

Neshastangah-e Fazl-e ben Ahmad ast

and Fazl ibn Ahmad is Ab-ol-abbas Esfarayeni. Shfarshid (talk) 17:38, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

No idea. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:57, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Abu'l-Fadl al-Bal'ami[edit]

The problem in that article is not transliteration, in Iranica it is mentioned that Bal'ami's predecessor is "Abu'l-Fadl ibn Yaqub Nishaburi" and his successor is "Abu Ali al-Jaihani" (Not Abu Abdallah al-Jaihani). Best regards Shfarshid (talk) 17:53, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Well.. sorry, my bad. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:17, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Alqas Mirza[edit]

Hey man! Wasn't there for a few days. Hope you're doing alright, like always. :-) I was wondering; I just made Alqas Mirza, and I found a source (in Turkish) that states that he was born in Karabagh. Do you think its WP:RS? I'm not sure myself. Btw, like always, feel absolutely free to change/adjust/continue etc whenever on the article. I'm most likely not gonna finish it in the near future namely. Btw, did you check your mail? I sent something some days ago. It'll crack you up I think as well, lel. - LouisAragon (talk) 03:40, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon I'll never trust Turkish sources, for example some time ago I found one that seemed 'reliable' but began stating that Avicenna was of Turkic origin...:/ I don't think this one is reliable either tbh. And you can only guess what the agenda of these kind of sources have when its about a Safavid family member (omg iz turkic bla bla bla) --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:58, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Yeah...I had kinda the same concerns due to the same reasons. I'll skip it. - LouisAragon (talk) 16:16, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
Btw mate, you told some time ago that the infobox was a bit unconventional here. Could you perhaps adjust it on that article so that it looks according to what you had in mind yourself? I will follow that pattern namely when creating info boxes for other office holders that were not of the royal dynasty itself. - LouisAragon (talk) 17:33, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
Sure, I'll see what I can do. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:55, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! - LouisAragon (talk) 16:46, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
Oh, btw, mate. Whenever you'll find time to fix that infobox, we really need to Abbas I's Kakhetian and Kartlian campaigns expand this article sometime. Its a really important article for Safavid history. I just corrected the name of the title which was factually incorrect (there never was any Gokce war), and did some small edits, but it really needs some expansion. Let me know what you think about this. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:55, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
Another thing; I found out that the Autar Khan you're reffering to here is this person -> Otar Beg Orbeliani. I initially named the article Otar Beg, and was thinking about naming him Otar Khan as well (he's referred to as both by modern-day writers), but we should try as often as possible to add surnames to the titles as well I think (if its a really distinctive surname so to say) in order to avoid confusion with other articles. His original surname was Orbeliani/Baratishvili-Obelishvili/Qaplanshvili, hence I moved it to Otar Beg Orbeliani (although Otar Khan Orbeliani would be alright too). - LouisAragon (talk) 17:55, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
- Sure will do.
- Nice.
- I am really busy atm, and I may be a little bit active today, since there is a one-week holiday here. But at the same time I have to two major homeworks to do. So... RIP --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:36, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Hey man, regarding the Kingdom of Pontus; what category should be additionally added to it? Currently only Category:Achaemenid Empire is present. Btw, I adjusted the lede as you can see, per the references and what is actually verifiable about the kingdom. If you think any category is omitted, feel free to add it. We should really fix that article as one of your next projects mate, I think. - LouisAragon (talk) 22:03, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

- Hmm... I don't know, 'Category:Iranian dynasties' maybe?
- Well, how can we make the article better? The thing is, that I never have been really interested in the Classical antiquity that much, and don't have many sources about the period either - in fact I think I only have the Cambridge History of Iran and Iranica as sources for the period. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:38, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
Well, ideally some extra references and expansion of the article. I mean, due to the lack of that, for about 10 years on Wiki the article presented the stroy as if the dynasty/kingdom was of Greek origin, which is bogus, as not a single WP:RS ever mentioned a Greek origin. Its kinda partially adressed now, but it was really lame that like no one even cared to fix it. I saw though that you made some correct fixed about two years ago, but there was/is still some stuff to do really. Ah ok, well if you're not interested in the topic/that era, then it becomes kinda difficult obviously. :-) - LouisAragon (talk) 02:39, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Yes, I was immediately thinking about that category (Category:Iranian dynasties) as well. But I'm not sure where I should add it; on the article itself, or in Category:Kingdom of Pontus? Could you perhaps add it to where you think it should be added, mate? Category:Ancient Persian dynasties is added to Category:Rulers of Pontus already btw, just to keep in mind. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:46, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for adding, that was indeed the correct place for it to be added I think. On topic; Category:Ancient Persian dynasties should get Category:Iranian dynasties as well, right? Btw mate, is there something you need my assistance with atm? With Iranian topics atm I'm focusing virtually solely on the Safavid era as you can see, but as you know you can always ask me if you need something. I take it you're mainly focusing on the Sasanian era atm? Is there anything (for example) partiular of that era that you'd like me to create/expand? Let me know. :-) - LouisAragon (talk) 11:03, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Mate, school is killing me, I will most likely be very inactive in some time :(. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:19, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Ahmad Maymandi[edit]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Ahmad Maymandi you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. Time2wait.svg This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Yash! -- Yash! (talk) 14:21, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Shah Tahmasp[edit]

Did Shah Tahmasp had a sister named Sultanam? Alexis Ivanov (talk) 04:42, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Alexis Ivanov: No idea, but 'Sultanam' sounds like something part of a bigger name, or maybe its a nickname or epithet. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:47, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
How about Sultanum Khanum. I'm asking because this Sultanum was having a disucssion with Hamida Begum (Wife of Humayun) while she and her husband were refugee in Safavid Empire. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 20:56, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
No idea, but hey you have her full name now. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:15, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
Problem is Shah Ismail never gave birth to a girl named Sultanum Khanum Alexis Ivanov (talk) 22:26, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Ahmad Maymandi[edit]

The article Ahmad Maymandi you nominated as a good article has failed Symbol oppose vote.svg; see Talk:Ahmad Maymandi for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Yash! -- Yash! (talk) 08:02, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

  • Apologies on behalf of the bot. I have no idea why the bot said that it failed. It has passed and is a GA now. Congratulations! :) Yash! 13:00, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Suspicious editing[edit]

I noticed this edit which 4 days later was modified by user:Acunli 45 and became suspicious. So I have removed said edits. Thought I would let you know. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:50, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you![edit]

Thank you for prudently removing the recent troll edits on Derafsh Kaviani! Face-smile.svg Hamid Hassani (talk) 01:11, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

You're welcome :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:50, 29 February 2016 (UTC)


Hi, Although I had previously opposed that write name of Arabic in Ahvaz article, but many population of Ahvaz are Arab. I think no problem placed arabic name in the top of article. such as Tabriz, Sanandaj, Kermanshah, Khorramabad, etc.--SaməkTalk 16:06, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

You do not have an answer?--SaməkTalk 21:34, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
Ops. Actually I don't know, but if the Arabic version should be there, it should be after the Persian one. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:52, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Are all sockpuppets f-ing morons?[edit]

Thought I would share with you this moron's ignorance....
"Kansas Bear what's wrong with writing from U of Manchester,it is a university with huge academic facilities, not like a small village in iran, are you jealous or something bro"

LMAO. This so-called university student(ie. Yakbul's sockpuppet) that is too ignorant to read my screen name KANSAS Bear!!?? Maybe this moron should be blocked simply for being too stupid!

Well, I'm off to wash my 2011 Camaro, do they even have Camaros in Iran? LMAO! --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:30, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

wat --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:47, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

lol wtf --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:49, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Achaemenid Empire Page[edit]

Please, look at the recent changes of Achaemenid Empire Page. I had added eleven credible references (please verify references.) which EdJohnston and User:EdJohnston deleted all of them without any explanation only because of current Infected anti Iranian atmosphere. The reality should not be said because of this atmosphere. Cambridge, Oxford and all notable Iranologists are wrong except these two users. They even do not respect Wikipedia rules (i.e. removing several credible references without any reason!). This means filtering and distorting the history and nothing else. Thus, this page needs the help of users who are working on History of Iran. I am waiting to hear a logical reason to remove these references, otherwise, all of them will be returned, sooner or later. Aidepikiwnirotide (talk) 18:58, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Then ask them why it was removed, I don't want to be involved in this. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:00, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
User:HistoryofIran you can see their logical answer here. Aidepikiwnirotide (talk) 00:16, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
A advise: You need to calm down when you write to other users, it's not like they have something against you. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:56, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


Hello, HistoryofIran. Please check your email; you've got mail!
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- LouisAragon (talk) 00:21, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Back at ya --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:08, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
Sent you a reply back. Btw mate, regarding Asōristān; didnt the territory also encompass parts of what is modern-day Syria and Turkey? If it was roughly synonymous with ancient Assyria and the fact that Dura-Europos was under Sasanian rule from its earliest days. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:02, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Will answer you tommorow, currently working on a essay which is a pain in the ass. No, it encompassed some part of present day Iraq and it was largely identical with Babylonia [7]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:38, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Replied you back. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:40, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
ditto. - LouisAragon (talk) 19:52, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Replieeeed --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:33, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
Anddddd back as well. - LouisAragon (talk) 23:29, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Bck --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:48, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Replied. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:51, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon:Dittooooo --HistoryofIran (talk) 03:02, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
Back, and sent you the files. I think the material written by C. Bosworth is some of the best material out there for this era, hands down. - LouisAragon (talk) 03:21, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
Btw mate, remember I told you some time ago about JSTOR and the option to request any source thats available in the world? Well, I also realized, you have made so many top quality contributions to Wiki, you should also consider requesting the membership of any of the databases here. I think the Oxford and/or Cambridge ones would be a good addition to your resource pool, don't you think? If you would list yourself, I'm sure you would have no issue receiving membership. You can also obviously request JSTOR membership (which basically give you the very right to access every source in the world), but theres a queue for it atm as you can see, while the ones for Cambridge and Oxford do not. - LouisAragon (talk) 04:32, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Sure, will take a look at it in the coming days. Btw alarm. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:26, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Errr.. I don't really know how it works, what should I write in my request? Btw replied you back. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:40, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
You mean in your request for sources or for your request of membership of those databases? (probably you mean the latter). Well, click on one of the databases you'd like to have membership of, for example Cambridge University Press. Then, just list yourself at the bottom of the list, mention f.e. how many articles you've made so far in Middle Eastern (Iranian) related history subjects and that you've single handedly probably made the most contributions to topics of this area. Mention that you'd really like to have access to the Cambridge files as it would really help you even more to create/expand articles, and therefore having access to it would be extremely beneficial for you as well as for Wikipedia. (check some of the other requests as well to get more ideas of how to write a proper request). You can also request JSTOR membership/access obviously, which is even better than anything else, but, as I told, it has a long waiting queue. Did I answer your question mate? How come btw you've never even made any book/source request before at JSTOR? :-) Never needed anything? I have one request running atm (a book that mentions the names, tenures, and the precise years of all Safavid officeholders). - LouisAragon (talk) 01:55, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

I mailed you back btw. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:48, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Nice, but wasn't it only a part of the book I could get access to? Because I am really in need of these three sources atm [8] [9] [10]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:18, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
If you are really in dire need of some titles, you can request that here, while your membership request is pending. Basically, you have a page where waiting queue you can request JSTOR membership (which you just did I see) and one page where you can request pages from people who already have JSTOR. Just list those three sources down below including the pages you'd like to have and which articles you'd like to improve with them (just list a hodgepodge) and they'll send it to you. - LouisAragon (talk) 14:10, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Perfect, will do that later. Replied you back btw. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:16, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Wait a sec... so if I have JSTOR, I basically have access to manyyyyy sources? So I won't have to request it here [11] after I become a member? --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:36, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
With JSTOR, you will have access to virtually every source in the world that was ever digitalised, yeah. After you have become a member, you indeed no longer need to request anything there, correcto. :-) - LouisAragon (talk) 21:52, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon That. is. insane. :O --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:56, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, its really neat indeed to put it polite. - LouisAragon (talk) 23:03, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
Do you know whether its possible to take pictures from Pinterest? Found alot of images/portraits of Safavid ambassadors, but I'm not sure whether they are allowed to be uploaded?[12]. If yes, do you know what license I need to add? - LouisAragon (talk) 15:19, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: No idea. Which pictures do you want to upload? Send their link to me and I'll fix the issue. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:26, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
They're all listed here -> [13]; Zeynal Khan Shamlou, Esmail Beg, Mehdi Qoli Beg, Hossein Ali Beg Bayat, etc. - LouisAragon (talk) 15:30, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon:Actually, maybe you can, since these pictures [14][15][16] are for example from pinterest. What do you think? --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:31, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Had some luck; turned out that the pictures were listed as "free" in our Dutch national musuem's website. Made the first article just some secs ago, for a start at least. (Hossein Ali Beg Bayat). Not sure if I missed something extremely important though. I wasnt able to find anything about his date/place of birth or death. Also, I put his first name per the Persian transliteration (Hossein) but Husain, Hussein, etc. are also used in the documentation about him (I think Hossein would be the best for people instantly to know that hes from Iran). - LouisAragon (talk) 18:22, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Qashqai people[edit]


Out of curiosity, which master were you referring to when you said that the page "is constantly vandalized by sockpuppets?" Thank you! GABHello! 17:39, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

The guy who just wrote on my talk page about the Qashqais, is another account of [17], and uses both to make disruptive edits. He may have used more than those two accounts, I'm not sure. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:42, 19 March 2016 (UTC)


I'm here to let you know that I'm asking for dispute resolution, and you will be mentioned as a participant in the dispute.
Rye-96 (talk) 18:53, 20 March 2016 (UTC)


Hello, HistoryofIran. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

- LouisAragon (talk) 20:53, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Can you send it again? I can't find it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:59, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Btw [18] --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:05, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
Just resent! - LouisAragon (talk) 22:50, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Replied. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:52, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
Regarding that map mate, yeah, I've seen it before. You want to use that map for some means? I wouldn't say its ideal at all. Currently all the southern/eastern/Caucasus/Central Asian/African borders (thus except for Macedon/Thrace) on our Achaemenid maps are modeled after this Reed map.[19]. Btw, that user whos constantly adding those poor quality maps in numerous articles by the means of edit-warring and providing absolutely 0.0% convincing rationale, is being quite disruptive to put it polite. - LouisAragon (talk) 23:14, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Your "palace" problems[edit]

I noticed your issues some time back and have been digging to find something that would indicate the Shirvanshahs culture. What I have found so far:

  • "Badr Shīrvānī (789–854/1387–1450) was a Persian poet who spent most of his career in Azerbaijan as a panegyrist at the court of the Shīrvān Shāhs (fl. mid-ninth to mid-sixteenth centuries). He was born in Azerbaijan, in the city of Shamākhī, the capital city of the Shīrvān Shāh dynasty. His father, Ḥājjī Shams al-Dīn, was apparently wealthy but paid scant attention to his son after the death of his birth mother. By his own account, Badr was precocious and began writing poetry at the age of ten or.."[20]

Unfortunately, I can not access Brill any further than this nor can I find Badr Shirvani's entry in my copy of The Encyclopaedia of Islam or Encyclopedia Iranica.

  • "Nur ad-Dīn Abd ar-Rahmān Jāmī", "Jami also arranged for his Kulliyat to be delivered to Farrukh Yasar Shirvan-shah (d. 906/1501), ruler of the Shirvan vassal state in eastern Transcaucasia.."[21]

Jami appears to have done his works exclusively in Persian, as seen in Haft Awrang.

  • Brenda Shaffer, Borders and Brethren: Iran and the Challenge of Azerbaijani Identity, page 18, "In north Azerbaijan, a native Shirvanshah dynasty ruled through the sixteenth century. Historians give varying dates for the establishment of this dynasty, beginning in the ninth century. In this period, Turkic and Persian cultural elements were quite fluid. Until the nineteenth century, Azerbaijani cultural figures wrote in both Persian and Azerbaijani....."[22]

Hopefully this helps. --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:03, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Kansas Bear: Great sources, but unfortunately I don't think that they will make a difference, since the sources I used clearly states who the Shirvanshahs were, but this Interfase guy clearly has his own personal opinion (agenda cough cough) which he will place above everything, even reliable academic sources which clearly states who the Shirvanshahs were. I don't even think he understands what the sources (the ones you just wrote on my talk page) says. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:16, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Reiteration of a certain topic.[edit]

Hello HistoryofIran, it has been quite a long time. Recently I have revisited Wikipedia and I could not help but notice that yet another debate about the Map of the Sassanid Empire was being rehashed.

Last year when Oceanwhile brought this topic back up, I went on to his talk page discussing this. I know that the map doesn't look perfect, but in truth it is the best we have had and it has remained on this article for the past two years.

You and I both know that this topic has been rehashed for 8 or more years and it never has truly been resolved. I said this on the talk page of the article that I am open to making changes when it comes to the city and province names.

Just tell me what provinces and cities that need to be correctly named and I will do just that. My map was created via photoshop so it would be pretty easy to do this. Regards. Kirby (talk) 02:27, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

- Can you change the quality of the map too? Since this one isn't too nice looking.
-Some of the western part should look like this [23]. Remember to put Arbayistan above the Garamig ud Nodardashiragan province. Atropatene ---> Adurbadagan. Gorgan ---> Gurgan. Harey ---> Harev. Khuzistan ---> Khuzestan. Sogdiana ---> Sogdia. Asuristan ---> Asoristan. Maishan ---> Meshan. Makran --> Makuran. Paratan --> Paradan. Goyman and Adiabene should be removed. Balasagan needs to be added.
-The name of the cities needs change as well: Ecbatana --> Hamadan. Merv ---> Marv. Estakhr --> Istakhr. Zarang ---> Zrang.
-Furthermore, I am begining to wonder if places such as Khwarazm was actually under Sasanian rule during that period. The Sasanian Empire from 590 to 628 may have actually more or less looked this map [24] --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:33, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
Most definitely I will make these changes. But it will take a while, give it a few months since rendering a high quality map making like mine takes a long time to do. Once I am finished redoing it, it will look a lot better.
As for Khwarazm, I wondered the same thing two years ago, and I did some miraculous research on the topic. I presented my sources two years ago that did show that Khwarazm was under Sasanian rule. There are many conflicting sources out there however. Here are the maps that my map was based off of
The first one is probably the most accurate however. Regardless, I will make the changes when I get around to it. You an count on that. Regards. Kirby (talk) 17:17, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
Kirby: The first one is a map of the early Sasanian Empire, while the second one is from Iranpolitics, a very nationalistic site that can't be trusted. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:28, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
Alright, now there is one more site that I forgot to add, that there is a source that I'm not sure can be trusted, but from what I can tell is a very neutral site, known as It does not show Khwarazm as part of the Sassanid Empire, but it does show the borders extending to the Indus River however. Here is the link to it:
And here is what it shows the empire being at it's greatest extent
I believe that this site is most likely the most trusted out of all that I have encountered:
With that being said, I will most likely create an entirely new and higher quality map of the Sasanian Empire based on the one posted on
Like I said before, I will do the make sure to get the city and province names correct this time. Cheers. Kirby (talk) 17:59, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
Kirby: I'm sorry, but that site is not reliable, and the maps on the site are not very accurate either. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:07, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
HistoryofIran: If that site isn't reliable then I do not know what is anymore. With that being said, I am going to reiterate the sources that I gathered from books and read myself that I will have quoted.

This is from two years ago, but only after the RfC ended did I get these sources.


Chosroes II continues his victorious career, conquering Egypt and Asia Minor and occupying both Alexandria and also Chaceldon across the Bosporus from Constinanople.[2]

[3]In this campaign the Persians broke through Byzantiums's eastern provinces; in 609, they reached Chaceldon, directly facing the capital, and their triumphal progress, far more serious than before, occupied the first part of the reign of Herakleios.



[6] Chosroes II of Persia who owed his throne to Maurice, declared war on the muderer of his benefactor. Persian armies were victorious in Mesopotamia and Syria, capturing the fortress towns of Dara, Amida Haran, Edessa, Hierapolis and Aleppo, though they were repulsed from Antioch and Damascus. They then overran Byzantine Armenia and raided deep into Anatolia through the provinces of Cappadocia, Phrygia, Galatia, and Bithynia. Byzantine resistance collapsed. A Persian Army penetrated as far as the Bosporus. Antioch and most of the remaining Byzantine fortresses in Syria and Mesopotamia and Armenia were captured(611). After a long seiges, the invaders took Damascus (613) and Jerusalem (614). Chosroes then began a determined invasion of Anatolia (615). Persian forces under General Shahen captured Chaceldon on the Bosporus after a long siege (616). Here the Persians remained, within one of of Constintanople, for more than 10 years. Meanwhile, they captured Ancyra and Rhodes (620); remaining Byzantine fortresses in Armenia were captured; the Persian occupation cut off a principal Byzantine recruiting ground. After defeating Byzantine garrisons in the Nile Valley, Chosroes marched across the Lybian Desert as far as Cyrene. These victories cut off the usual grain supplies from Egypt to Constantinople. Under Chosroes II the Persians virtually eliminated the Byzantines from all their Asiatic and Egyptian provinces, expanding Sassanid dominions to the extent of the Empire of Darius.

[7]The able Persian generals Shahrvaraz and Shahin led the Sassanid armies through Mesopotamia, Armenia and Syria into Palestine and Asia Minor. They took Antioch in 611, Damascus in 613, and then Jurusalem, in 614 (sending a shock through the whole Christian world). At Jerusalem the Christian defenders refused to give up the city, and it was taken by assault after three weeks, and given over to the sack. The Persians carries off the True Cross to Ctesiphon. Within another four years they had conquered Egypt and were in control of Asia Minor, as far as Chaceldon, opposite of Constantinople on the shores of the Bosporus. No shah of Persia since Cyrus had achieved such military successes.


NOW The sources that I quoted from are the sources that cannot be linked due to them not being available to read on the internet. The sources that I cited and quoted from were from books at my local libraries.

  1. ^ [1]
  2. ^ H.E.L. Mellerish (1994) pg. 428
  3. ^ Robert Fossier The Cambridge History of The Middle Ages 350-950 (1990) pg.175
  4. ^ >
  5. ^
  6. ^ R. Ernest Dupuy and Trevor N. Dupuy (1970) pg.193, 210, 211, 214
  7. ^ Michael Axworthy A History of Iran (2008) pg.64-65
  8. ^

It is also important to note that even --Kathovo said that was in fact a reliable source. This was said by him in a conversation that I had with him three years ago. I will quote a bit of what he said to me verbatim:

"I suggest that you first read what reliable sources has to say about the subject: check Iranica's Safavids and Afsharids, go to your local public library and take a look at relevant entries in the Encyclopedia of Islam, if you have enough time to spare borrow the volumous The Cambridge History of Iran"

This was three years ago on regards to a different topic on Persian history.

Now on regards to the map that you linked the me, I highly doubt that the Sasanian Empire looked along the lines of that. Many sources say that the Border was the Oxus River. Something that map clearly does not show, second, during the First and Second Perso-Turkic Wars, the Sasanian Army conquered the Hepthalite Principalities that were aligned with the Gokturks at the time. The Hepthalite principalities that were conquered went beyond the Oxus River.

So with that being said, here is what I am officially going to do. I will create a brand new and high quality map using photoshop that shows the true extent of the borders of the Sasanian Empire in 621 A.D. and have the Byzantine territories temporarily conquered shaded of course, much like the map that you linked.

It will take a few months, but I will most certainly get it done. Regards. Kirby (talk) 21:36, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

I know which source is reliable and which is not, no need to talk to me like I'm some kind of rookie - take a look at my contributions on this site. The Sasanian Empire from 590 to 628 didn't go beyond the Oxus River, that is just pure historical revionism. Marv, Gorgan and Herat are often the last mentioned eastern cities of the Sasanian Empire during the Muslim conquests, which there is a reason for. The only Hephthalite Kingdom which was under Sasanian rule was the Hephthalite Kingdom of Badghis ruled by the Nezak dynasty, which the map I linked also shows. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:03, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
Ok HistoryofIran, let's not get into an argument here. I know you are not a rookie and I have seen many of your contributions from mere edits to articles that you have created. Please do not think that I am talking to you in that sense, I apologize for any rudeness during this conversation between us.

I will create a new high quality map using Photoshop that will show the true extent of the Sasanian Empire from 590-628. I'm pretty sure that Dihistan was under Sassanid rule from 590 to 628 A.D. at the very least. Same goes for the city of Balkh. But none of the less, the border between the Sassanid Empire and the Gokturk Khaganate was the Oxus. You and I both know this much.

However, what you said about the Sasanian Empire from 590 to 628 A.D. directly contradicts what you said before. That being that you weren't sure if they did or not and now you are certain they didn't? Also, how do you know if the map that you linked is not historical revisionism as well? The map you linked comes from, that is one University versus the one that I presented from comes from people from multiple universities. Moreover, I have had my fair share of reading plenty of scholarly books, plenty of reliable sources myself. So do not treat me like I am some novice when it comes to this!

So again, I will make the map. It will take me a little while to make it, but I will get it done. Cheers. Kirby (talk) 23:15, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Alright HistoryofIran, just wanted to let you know that I might take this up to the map workshop as a Plan B.

Also I am sorry if I am not being as calm as you would like me to be, but stuff like rehashing this topic is a bit aggravating sometimes. Regards.

Sasanian Empire map part 2[edit]

Hello again HistoryofIran, I just would like to inform you that I am as of current adjusting my map, but it is taking quite a while as expected. Thought I'm getting it done none of the less which is most important! :)

In the meantime, I couldn't help but notice a couple of unsourced material within a few articles such as:

"The Turks ruled over Samarkand until they were defeated by the Sassanids during the Göktürk–Persian Wars."

Same goes with the Bactria article, but I do not see that much of a problem with that one. I had a discussion on that article's talkpage with Zyma that addresses the issue I had with that one. Since he said that you and Kansas Bear had more knowledge on the topic and I couldn't help but notice that you both were in a debate on the Bactria talkpage as well, I thought you could give your two cents on this discussion.

Here's the link to the discussion:

That's all I have to say for now aside from what I said about my progress on the map of the Sasanian Empire. I am fixing the borders as of current, but as I said before it will take a while to re-adjust the map as I am making my map much more detailed by showing the temporarily occupied territories shown in greater detail than previously. Cheers. Kirby (talk) 04:53, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your hindsight on the Bactria article. I very much appreciate it. :)
There is one last thing that I feel like needs to be addressed. Since I am re-adjusting the borders (Which I'm almost finished with) and correcting city and province names on the map of the Sasanian Empire, I do NOT want to make any more mistakes.
So I went on the Samarkand article and I found this on the Pre-Mongol period section of the article:
"After the Hephtalites conquered Samarkand, they controlled it until the Göktürks, in an alliance with the Sassanid Persians, captured it during the Battle of Bukhara." "The Turks ruled over Samarkand until they were defeated by the Sassanids during the Göktürk–Persian Wars."
The first part of I know is true since the Sassanid-Gokturk border was the Oxus, but the second part is what troubles me.
Hence why I made a discussion yesterday on the talkpage of the article about this particular claim asking for sources:
No one ever replied. Can you provide some information or hindsight on this? Kirby (talk) 15:43, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Have you done any research in regards to Samarkand and the Sasanian Empire? --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:35, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Samarkand was not under Sasanian control during the reign of Khosrow II, at least that's what it seems like from the sources I have read. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:13, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Kirby: It was not under the rule of Khosrow II if you that's what you're asking about. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:16, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
HistoryofIran Thank you for the information! It really cleared things up.
Kansas Bear I have, but I haven't had much time on my hands to fully research it, but HistoryofIran cleared it up for me. Cheers! Kirby (talk) 00:54, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Small matter/quick question[edit]

Heyy mate, I was wondering; I just created this article about a Safavid consul; do you think I should mention his origin once again in the lede, or do you thinks its just (perfectly) fine like this and clear enough that he was of Armenian origin?

My first article after some weeks, heh. Though its a small one, and theres still quite some to write about him, I guess its better than nothing for now, as I reaaaally still dont have much time at all to make any large scale contributions again (these test periods man, jesus christ...). Btw, I just sent you a mail. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:16, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Hey there :)! I'll take a look it at tommorow, since I'm going to bed now. Yeah, I know that feel, about 1 month left till the holidays start for me! Can't wait :D!! --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:18, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Sorry for being a bit late: I changed the article a little bit, what do you think? Is it better that way? If not, you're free to revert it back. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:43, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

User Vormeph[edit]

@HistoryofIran: The user Vormeph is deleting the history of his user talk page including warning to be blocked , personal attacks etc. You can see them HERE that shows the honesty of this user. Aidepikiwnirotide (talk) 17:14, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
What has that with his honesty to do? Why are you writing this to me? --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:17, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
@HistoryofIran: As you know well, all talk pages are archived by wikipedia automatically and there is no need "to hide" talk page history as "Archive". Obviously, the main purpose could be concealing "previous behaviour of the user" as mentioned is talk page such as personal attack (you can find an example of such behaviour in Iran talk page, where he says "I don't know which side you hail from, whether the posterior or not"). Another example is HERE, where this user removed a part of Iran talk page. Anyway, I think wikipedia admins may prevent such behaviours that could be dangerous, when some important discussions may be removed. Why do we need to remove history of talk pages? When there are something that is not in our favour. for example, maybe a user writes something against my idea, but I remove (or hide) it in talk page such that other users cannot see them. Is it correct or legal behaviour in wikipedia? Aidepikiwnirotide (talk) 18:44, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Let me say this in a short and easy way: No one will listen to your historically incorrect idea about using Persia - writing about his edits won't change my mind. I'm not really interested in getting dragged into all this. Please take your concerns about him to an admin. I'm sorry for sounding a bit rude, but I really can't be bothered. You have already lost the discussion, stop spamming other user pages when it is already more or less decided. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:09, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
@HistoryofIran: So, let say, my only purpose to write to you was that I thought you may be an admin to prevent such discourteous and ... behaviours that apparently I was wrong. Concerning your idea, I've written to you in Iran talk page (and not in personal pages!), so be sure, I'm not trying to change your opinion! Aidepikiwnirotide (talk) 19:33, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
You've just written to this user about the Iran-Persia talk section [25], and he is probably one of the many users you have written to. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:44, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
@HistoryofIran: No, it's not the case. I emphasize it's not true! Please do'not prejudge ! As you could find this one, you can find other many users that you claim ! I only invited two users (Rwenonah and Alborz Fallah) who previously had commented to participate in Iran talk page ! that's all. It's a fault?! Sorry! Aidepikiwnirotide (talk) 21:25, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Lead: Proposed - "Formerly known as Iran"[edit]

Hi HistoryofIran. Fair enough if you don't want to get dragged in, but as the originator of the wording, I thought you should be informed of the current proposal. Please note that the "in the Western world" part of your suggestion is not included in the proposed edit, so your opinion on this would be especially welcome. Cheers, Bromley86 (talk) 21:40, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Done. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:51, 9 May 2016 (UTC)


Hey man, can you check your mail please? Send you a reply. - LouisAragon (talk) 18:47, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Replied. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:07, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
ditto. - LouisAragon (talk) 22:08, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Edit-warring at Nizam al-Mulk[edit]

In view of your history, you need no warning about edit-warring. I actually blocked this account, but then realised that your last edit to the article was three days ago, so I unblocked. However, you are likely to be blocked without further notice if your return to edit-warring, on any page. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 10:53, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

JamesBWatson: I'm sorry, how about dealing with the vandal who keeps removing information in order to support his own POV? He JUST (today) reverted the information again [26], doesn't that mean you have to block him? Btw his edit just got reverted by another user, guess why? Because he is making disruptive edits and not constructive ones. I may have broken the edit-warring rule, but not because I'm some little annoying vandal who likes to ruin articles, but because I am at most times the only one who is watching these articles to protect them from vandals, yet I am often targeted by admins. The reason I didn't deal with the situation in a 'better' way, is because I simply didn't have enough time for that, but hey at least I'm doing something. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:51, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
I warned the other editor about edit-warring. The difference is that he or she is a new editor who had not previously been informed of the edit-warring policy, whereas you have clearly been aware of it for a long time. It is not at all obvious that he or she is a vandal: the editing history is entirely consistent, as far as I can see, with the possibility that he or she believes in good faith that he or she is being constructive. Whether you or I or anyone else agrees or disagrees with that view does not affect that. Yes, indeed, I was well aware that the edit was reverted by another editor, and with good reason. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 09:29, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


Yo mate, regarding Sasanian Iberia; I'm at pains regarding the starting date. The thing is, already since 363 century, it was a vassal state of the Sasanians. There were only 2 brief interruptions due to 2 uprisings in the entire upcoming period. Then in 523, direct control was assumed of Iberia and in 580, the Iberian monarchy was abolished by Hormizd.

As of currently, I put the starting date at 523, but I think we should use 363. What do you think? PS: I asked for the Nizam al-Mulk page to be protected. I wanted to interfere myself, as it was constantly put on top of my watchlist, but realized that this WP:SPA IP/user has absolutely no intention to be WP:HERE. - LouisAragon (talk) 19:26, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Hmmm... I'm not sure, maybe we could change the name of the article to 'Marzbanate Iberia' and not change the date? Either that or we can go with your suggestion, it's your choice. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:47, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
The problem is, is that if we change it to Marzpanate Iberia, we unintentionally leave out some 160 years of almost continuous political/military domination of Iberia, as during that period Georgian kings ruled with the investiture/domination by the Sasanians. Also, especially looking at the Roman articles regarding the same thing (e.g. Roman Georgia) I only come to the conclusion even more so that your second opinion is a more appropriate one here. Considering the Romans never had any long-term hold of Iberia (while they yet call the entire period as "Roman Georgia") it only justifies it more to use the term Sasanian Iberia, or something in that trend. Anyways, to put it short; I will change the dates/article accordingly per the sources :-) Thanks for your opinion mate. - LouisAragon (talk) 00:26, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

June 2016[edit]

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Palace of the Shirvanshahs. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

  1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
  2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. MorbidEntree - (Talk to me! (っ◕‿◕)っ♥) 19:55, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

MorbidEntree: Yes indeed I am, however: It is this disruptive editing user that is the problem here - he constantly changes information without having reached any consensus on the talk page. Per the rules a consensus should be reached before, or else he is not allowed to change the original information. Hope you'll answer back. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:05, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
Yes, I am aware of the situation. I just wanted to let both of you guys know that it is edit warring, just in case. --MorbidEntree - (Talk to me! (っ◕‿◕)っ♥) 20:24, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

fake map (iran & afghanistan)[edit]

a pov user falsified the content of Turkmen Sahra (a pov and fake map) and Afghan Turkestan,looks like an agenda. (talk) 10:27, 19 June 2016 (UTC)


Hey, in the Persian Expedition of 1796 and the Russo-Persian War (1804-1813), Russia invaded what was then still Iranian soil. Do you think both wars should be labeled with Category:Invasions of Iran? - LouisAragon (talk) 19:32, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Yup. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:53, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Btw, I just made this article about a notable Safavid family. That was a pretty complex thingy to make, I have to say, haha. Can you imagine the complexity; the family's ethnicity was Armenian, they hailed from a region that was under Georgian rule/influence for centuries, and had accepted Shia Islam from the early Safavid days. Even the historians back then had no definite idea as for how to describe them. e.g Armenian, Georgian, or even Kartlian (as Lower Kartli was the region where they came from). To make it even more difficult, some members later converted back to Christianity, TWO different rites (Armenian Orthodox/Georgian Orthodox), thus splitting in two different branches, and these two families were confirmed as noble families in Imperial Russia who took over the region from Iran as you know. The Armenian Orthodox-adhering line produced some notable people from what I know, such as Mikhail Loris-Melikov. Don't know much about the Georgian Orthodox-adhering line.
As you can see, I've covered the later history of the Mirimanidzes, when they transform into the Melikov line in the body of the article. Though this is pretty important stuff for the family itself, and could possibly even be added to the lede, I've excluded it. As this line in question is about the Safavid era mainly. Do you agree with my reasoning for excluding it from the lede? Let me kneauwww. Oh, obviously if you have anything to add to it, feel free to do so, as always. :-) - LouisAragon (talk) 13:51, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Looks good, I didn't know anything about this family until now :). Btw, could this Tahmaspqoli guy be the same person as Tahmasp Quli Khan, who served as the governor of Kerman under Abbas I? --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:11, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Honestly, it could very well be mate. I just checked the sources, and the Tahmaspqoli that my source talks about indeed served under Abbas I. I'm not sure enough though atm, but I will surely fix it later when I will actually start using these tons of material that I received through JSTOR (a book of Willem M. Floor), which lists literally all Safavid govenors and officeholders, including names, dates of their tenure, etc. Btw, I take it that you don't have any opinion regaridng my last question (see above) about the inclusion of all that Melikov related material to the lede of the Mirimanidze artice? :D - LouisAragon (talk) 17:31, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Oh lastly, should we use the "Safavid" names when referring to converted people who joined the Safavid ranks e.g. in the lede of Mirimanidze, I need to mention Vakhtang VI of Kartli, who in Safavid-related (historical and contemporary) sources is known as Husayn-Qoli Khan? - LouisAragon (talk) 18:16, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
- Well, it is your own choice, it isn't the end of the world if you don't add it, but it would be a nice addition :).
- I would go for his native name, since several people of Iran had the name 'Husayn-Qoli Khan', especially the Shias. It was a popular name, and still is today (Hossein). Too many people had that name, thus it would be better to use his native name in order to avoid confusion. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:41, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Btw my computer (which has all my sources) is currently broken, so I am unable to do much at the moment, hence why I have several 'under construction' articles which I haven't edited for some days. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:55, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Mate. I added his native name behind it, as the article mainly concerns the Safavid era and he was a Safavid governor when he confirmed their status. Btw, a different thing, that really needs our attention I think. It's actually hilarious; virtually every reliable source there is (be it written by Toumanoff, Yarshater, Pourshariati, Rapp, David Marshall Lang, Noel Lenski, Richard E. Payne, and Joan M. Hussey assert that the Chosroids were an offshoot/branch of the Mihranids, and that the founder of the dynasty, Mirian III, was an "Iranian prince", "Persian prince", "Iranian Mihranid", "Persian dynast", or a "member of the Iranian Mihranids". Yet, interestingly, both on the Chosroids page as well as the Mirian III page, it's presented as if it's all in dubio, just because of 1 historian who asserts that this all is untrue (!) and that he was simply of Georgian origins. I already added several sources to the Chosroids page that further assert that it was of Iranian Mihranid origins, (before my addition, only Toumanoff was present), but this really needs to get taken care off accordingly. 8 reliable, well known academics/historians can't weigh up against 1 academic/historian?... No probs if no one actually did any effort to search for more sources back then (WP:GF assumed), but given that we can easily see with a small dig that the minority view is hopelessly outnumbered, this should all be fixed, honestly. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:17, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon you might want to check Professor Ian Mladjov's resources where he lists the Georgia rulers, I think you are correct, I hope this serves you well, because I myself noticed Georgian rulers with Muslim names while researching Georgian relationship with the Ottoman Empire you need this very much and the professor is kind enough to add the Islamic name in brackets. Also Vakhtang VI of Kartli's father, and grandfather have Islamic names. Tell me what you think of the list. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 04:51, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Also what book did Willem M. Floor write about Safavid governors. Interested in writing it down and reading it in the near future Alexis Ivanov (talk) 04:57, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Yup, that's need some fixing indeed. But if we do that we will most likely get reverted by two certain people :)), so what do you suggest? Actually, just rewrite it how you think it should look like, since you obviously have the upper hand with those sources at your disposal. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:49, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

@Alexis Ivanov:, thanks for linking the source. Yeah, many Georgian rulers had Islamic names as eastern Georgia (Kartli/Kakheti) was, intermittently, an Iranian dominion from the 16th century. All the Islamic names should be covered on the respective articles, one way or another, as many both historical and contemporary sources use them, and well, yeah, a Safavid governor should simply also be known by his "Safavid" name, if you get what I mean. I do think however that most of the Islamic names are already mentioned on the articles in question though. Or were some of them lacking?

The book of Willem M. Floor that I meant is called: Naṣīrī, ʻAlī Naqī; Floor, Willem (2008). Titles & Emoluments in Safavid Iran: A Third Manual of Safavid Administration. Mage Publishers. ISBN 978-1933823232. As a further help; Amazon's "Look inside" feature alraedy includes the 22 page index. The bulk of the book is 169 pages of lists of governors by province. "Surprise Me!" shows 80-90% of the M to Z portion of those lists. The rest of the pages that I am in dire need of I will ask the JSTOR staff later to send to me. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:03, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the book, how can the JSTOR staff send the book to you? This book is published by Mage Publishers if I'm correct. Also when I read these kind of books, I always have a map open next to me to get a better picture and understanding, with the abundance of Iranian history books, who has the best atlas of Safavid or Historical atlas of Iran. I have a Historical atlas of central asia, that I have used, the headaches that the Ghaznavids, Qarakhanids and Seljuks caused me was big. I haven't used this atlas to understand the Uzbeks and their attack on Safavid, but the book upon checking now explains it good. But as you only Central Asia, not Western Persia. Any recommendation would be good. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 04:22, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran:, yeah, I will try to make a proper rewrite of those specific parts these days. But what should we do with Melikishvili's view? He's literally the only scholar that openly doubts the Mihranid origins of this dynasty. Should we remove it? Should we mention it in the section after the 8 sources are mentioned? I think its totally undue weight to give any means of importance to him, honestly, when his statement if baffled by 8 highly accredited scholars/historians. Let me know what you think. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:00, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Just completely remove mention of him, he's just some Soviet historian. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:50, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
I actually even found another source that confirmed its Mihranid origins, apart from the ones (8) that I already mentioned. I just rewrote both Chosroid dynasty and Mirian III of Iberia. What do you think? Does it need some tweaking? Could you btw assign the correct categories that were lacking on the articles of several members of the dynasty? I added them for Mirian III myself. - LouisAragon (talk) 19:08, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: I like what you did. Will add the House of Mihran category. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:30, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of 'Adud al-Dawla[edit]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article 'Adud al-Dawla you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. Time2wait.svg This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Sainsf -- Sainsf (talk) 07:20, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Congratulation on the article, it is very good. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 20:17, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Thank you :) --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:35, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Capture of Rhodes and other Aegean islands[edit]

Mate, I decided to make a new section in order to keep it a bit neat (I replied to our last matter above). On the Sasanian navy article, you added that the Sasanian navy took Rhodes in 625. I can't view the source myself, but I found several other sources that state that this happened in 622/623 (?)

  • A Persian fleet was also active, and the island of Rhodes fell to the invades in 622/3. -- Geoffrey Greatrex, Samuel N. C. Lieu. (2005) The Roman Eastern Frontier and the Persian Wars AD 363-628. Routledge. ISBN 978-1134756469 p 197
  • By 623 they had reached Ancyra (modern-day Ankara, the capital of Turkey), while the Persian naval forces seized the island of Rhodes and several other islands in the eastern Aegean. -- Mehrdad Kia (2016) The Persian Empire: A Historical Encyclopedia [2 volumes]: A Historical Encyclopedia ABC-CLIO. ISBN 978-1610693912 p 266
  • Apart fom succesful attacks on Cyprus (around 619) and Rhodes and other unspecified islands in 623, (...) -- J. D. Howard-Johnston (2006) East Rome, Sasanian Persia and the End of Antiquity: Historiographical and Historical Studies Ashgate Publishing, Ltd. ISBN 978-0860789925 p 33

Whats your take on this? - LouisAragon (talk) 01:58, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: That you are right. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:27, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
Great. Btw, as the Sasanian map is intended to show the maximum extent as well, Rhodes needs to be added as well. Its lacking currently (I know the map still has quite alot of issues). We need to remind that. - LouisAragon (talk) 00:56, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
Rofl, I just noticed this while adding some information/sources to this article.[27] >.< - LouisAragon (talk) 01:34, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Wut, don't remember that. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:05, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
L-O-L --> [28]-[29]-[30]. And then they wonder why some half of the worlds population is retarded (as in, having an IQ within the double digits) on average. The most hilarious thing I've seen on this place in quite some time. - LouisAragon (talk) 18:50, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of 'Adud al-Dawla[edit]

The article 'Adud al-Dawla you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.svg; see Talk:'Adud al-Dawla for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Sainsf -- Sainsf (talk) 18:01, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

taq e Bostan[edit]

hi.why you reverted my edit on Taq Bostan? why you accused "vandalism"?every thing that not welcomed by your opinion is vandalism? --Hosseiniran (talk) 05:15, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Can't see if troll or not... anyway; You're removing the Persian spelling (which even has a source) and then you add the Kurdish spelling, which there is no reason for. And please stop adding it, thank you. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:41, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
I've given him his one and only formal warning regarding this with a clear explanation as for why he's being disruptive (and then I'm only talking about the Taq Bostan article). Next time, he will be reported to ANI. - LouisAragon (talk) 20:35, 1 July 2016 (UTC)


While adding information to the Battle of Mu'tah article, Kaegi states Heraclius and Shahrbaraz made a peace accord in July 629. The Shahrbaraz article stated he died in June 629. Checking Pourshariati page 182, states his death was June 630, which would explain how he was making a treaty with Heraclius. I do not have a copy of, Michael G. Morony,(2005) [1984]. Iraq After The Muslim Conquest, so I do not know what he says. --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:19, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Will take a look on it when I have time, and when my computer (which has all my sources and is currently broken) is fixed. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:20, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Naming styles[edit]

Yo man. Are you on holiday atm? :-) Noticed you're a bit absent heh. I wanted to ask you something about naming styles; f.e. these guys Tahmaspqoli Mirimanidze and Najafqoli Khan Cherkes, the first guy is also referred to as "Tahmasp Qoli Mirimanidze" and "Tahmasp Quli Mirimanidze". Basically what style should we use the whole time for such names? My preference first of all goes to "Qoli" over "Quli" as that is the distinct West Asian "Iranian" style, but should there be a gap between the two words e.g. Tahmasp Qoli (as opposed to Tahmaspqoli/Tahmaspquli)? Thus; Tahmaspqoli, Tahmasp Qoli or Tahmasp Quli? (Lol, hope I made my point clear). - LouisAragon (talk) 11:55, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

- Yup :).
- Yeah, that is a annoying thing when it comes to Iranian names. I usually go for the name the person is most known by, except if its a person from the pre-Islamic era. I would say go with 'Qoli' instead of 'Quli', but its not the worlds end either if you use 'Quli'. The gap between the two words also depends of which he is most known by, but I myself usually use 'Tahmasp Qoli' instead of 'Tahmaspqoli/Tahmaspquli'. But this one for example [31] is good, I dont think there should be any change there. If the name is very long and we have the opinion to shorten it by using 'Tahmaspqoli', then it should be like that, but that's just my opinion. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:08, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks much for your elaborate opinion. Hoped you would do something like that, haha. Thats all solved then ;-)
Btw, regarding the Kingdom of Pontus; I think we should add it somewhere here (in general it has an extremely poor representation on Iranian articles). Do you agree with that? Maybe in the see also subsection of the history section of that template? Enjoy your vacation my friend! When will you return? - LouisAragon (talk) 06:24, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Agreed. I will return in a few days. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:14, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Category:Armenian former Christians[edit]

This category is present on these articles; Yusuf Khan (Armenian), Khosrow Khan Gorji, Mirza Malkam Khan, Qarachaqay Khan. None of these were Armenian in nationality however. Thus, should it be removed or? A category "Ethnic Armenian Former Christians" could be made and added instead as well, though it sounds a bit odd I believe. What do you say? (Hope you're having a splendid vacation btw!) - LouisAragon (talk) 18:13, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: I'd say it's fine as it is, and thanks :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:39, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Sasanian Empire Map Part 3[edit]

Hello HistoryofIran! Been awhile. I'm sorry for taking so long to make this map. There has been so much going on in my everyday livelyhood getting in the way. But good news, it is near completion. I don't have many of the cities on the map, but I do in fact have most if not all of the provinces on there as of now. With that being said, I will be putting the map in the infobox either tonight at 9:00 US Eastern Time or tomorrow. Cheers! Kirby (talk) 22:26, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Oh, I forgot to mention, I will keep updating the map even after it is posted since many of the cities are not yet on there. Kirby (talk) 22:27, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Kirby: I'm sorry to say, but this one is innacurrate as well, if not even more. Some of the provinces/cities are spelled in the English version, others in Middle Persian, New Persian, and even Greek and Arabic. It doesn't even include the territory they gained which stopped close to Constantinople. Northern Libya was also part of the Sasanian Empire, as the western part of their Egypt province. Furthermore, the Sasanians had more land in Arabia than it shows on the map. The Gurgan border is a bit innacurate as well, it doesn't even include all of the Gurgan wall. Also, Derbent isn't even included in the Sasanian territory - it was more up north. In the start I did show you this map [32] which is the most accurate we have the moment. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:37, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
HistoryofIran, the map that you showed me says that the territory that they gained close to Constantinople and the western part of Egypt are shown on that map as "raided" by the Persians rather than occupied like the other territory. Hence why with those parts I didn't include those in the map, but I will fix this. As for the larger territory in Arabia, I will fix.

The Gurgan Wall is difficult to create on Photoshop, so if I can't get it to look nice, this will be why.

As for the names of the Provinces and Cities, please tell me which ones need to be renamed? Since I named them based on the map you linked to me. Kirby (talk) 20:36, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Alright, I appeared to have forgotten to look at the bottom of the map where it shows the official names for these cities, I will go on and fix them. As I said before, I will be editing the map as time goes on, now it will be hard to include all of western Egypt due to the way I cropped the map in Photoshop which cannot be undone since I saved it in that format, but I can include the majority of that and Derbent. Cheers! Kirby (talk) 20:46, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Keeby101, I concur with HistoryofIran. It unfortunately contains many errors, even more so than the previous map, I'm afraid. They in fact kept the entire territory up to the Bosphorus at their maximum extent (verifiable). Furthermore, I will add, Rhodes is omitted which was conquered during the 602-628 war, as well as the territory of Lazica, the latter though not taken during the Byzantine-Sasanian War of 602-628 specifically, it should be shaded with a different color and a different legend as it was taken during a different period and is of great historiographic significance for the Sasanian era. Also, during its maximum extent, all of Caucasian Iberia fell under Sasanian rule. Just a few additional points that I just had to add. But there are several more issues. Thanks for your efforts so far though! Appreciate it. - LouisAragon (talk) 22:38, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for pointing this all out. I will fix the errors, but it will take some time. Cheers! Kirby (talk) 00:21, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Kirby: Btw, I didn't mean that you should add the Gurgan wall, but that you haven't included some part of what was northern Gurgan as Sasanian territory. Look at the map I sent, it would be awesome if you could make the Gurgan border like that. Furthermore, can you also make the name of the provinces look like these [33]? Marw is the Arabic version of Marv/Marg btw, but here it should be 'Marv', since it is more common and is also used in Persian. Names such as Palestina Secunda etc should not be there either. Ægyptus should be changed to Egypt (or Agiptus, I don't know, just not Ægyptus). The name Phoenice should not be there, and I don't know what to say about Syria. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:25, 27 July 2016 (UTC)


Yo man, I'm not entirely sure whether you asked about this some time ago, or whether I did so, but in any case, I found the original pic with the original colour scheme of this individual -> Pari Khan Khanum. - LouisAragon (talk) 01:24, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Also mate, as you know, we're in some dire need of pictures/drawings/paintings for the many Safavid-era individuals. Do you have some site where I can find (alot) of Safavid paintings/drawings, etc and which can easily be uploaded? I think you sent me a link some time ago, but I can't retrieve it. As you probably noticed I'm mostly focusing on this era atm. I realized pretty early already that its kinda hard to find proper stuff for it, as even though there are really many surviving Safavid paintings/drawings etc, only a very little amount of the individuals on the paintings/drawings have been identified so far (their names and stuff). - LouisAragon (talk) 02:22, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
Lastly, I think the Russian Empire should be added as a succeeding state to the list in the Safavid dynasty infobox (they conquered swaths of its territory in 1722-23, and held it till 1732/35). - LouisAragon (talk) 14:36, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
- Awesome!
- Unfortunately I haven't got my old computer back yet, where besides all my sources were kept there, I also had the names of several websites with pictures that we could use without copyright problems. I can't even upload a picture at the moment.
- Sure, I agree! --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:21, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
Take a look man. Hilarious thing about this WP:SPA sock is, is that he adds the Azeri spelling to the article (apart from blatantly deleting your source) even though Britannica (non-WP:RS) states that he was Turkmen LMAO. How much does Aliyev pay such guys, I always wonder. It surely must be good (for their standards), given the literally tons of IPs and accounts that geolocate to Azerbaijan and only come on Eng.Wiki to spread the same agenda, and have been busted/blocked so far. - LouisAragon (talk) 18:41, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Jeez, it never stops. Almost like there is a army of such disruptive editors prepared to strike. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:23, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Heh, you should check the Azeri Wiki. Anything from Tusi to Ganjavi, to Khwarizmi, and to the Sarmatians is pure Turk on their Wiki. And thats just 0.001% of it. :D - LouisAragon (talk) 01:36, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Yea I've seen it, ended up needing eye bleach after having seen such dim-witted horrors. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:59, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Ethnic politics in Wikipedia. I have seen Kansas Bear dealing with some people like that, fighting the good fight, but I just believe that the Azerbaijani literature and historiography has affected them. Non-english Wikipedia is not that scrutinized. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 09:42, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran, do you mind if I put the correct transliterations on like 1-2 articles, such as this one -> Chiragh Khan Zahidi. With correct I mean the actual Iranian transliteration. I know that quite a few sources prefer to use the "neutral" Persian transliteration for whatever reason (apart from often mentioning the Iranian transliteration as well along the way), and in most cases its actually "doable" as a transliteration that fits within the range of "understanding", but there are a few articles of the Safavid era which in my opinion, would benefit from this. Not only will it be made immediately clear that the article pertains to Iran, it also immediatelly distinguishes it from so many other countries in Eurasia who use similar names. What do you think? E.g., a transliteration such as "Pirzada" or "Chiragh" on that article, is something that doesn't exist in Iranian Persian for very long. It doesn't make any sense for anyone who has at least a decent amount of proficiency in Persian. :D - LouisAragon (talk) 04:19, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Oh before I forget mate; do you want me to make a request at the graphics lab in the meantime for the image of Pari Khan Khanum to be coloured according to the colour scheme of the original painting (as linked above)? - LouisAragon (talk) 04:32, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
Lastly, LOL; I stumbled across this WP:OR crushing article, named Treaty of Kurakchay. I recently got my hand on almost all of the titles that are added there in the feigned attempt to make it seem as if such an event (in the way they described) ever happened (e.g. to prove a nationalist-type of idealized Azerbaijani statehood in the 19th century lmao). Two of the three books they have cited so far don't back this fairy tale up . To put it short; with that amount of WP:OR and grievous misinterpretation of events, it might even have to be AFD'ed or be made a redirect. - LouisAragon (talk) 04:58, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Farsi transliteration[edit]

Hello! Could you please provide transliteration for آرامگاه کوروش بزرگ‎‎ ?--Երևանցի talk 09:14, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

@Yerevantsi: (Persian: آرامگاه کوروش بزرگ‎, translit. Ārāmgāh-i Kūrush-i Buzurg, lit. 'Tomb of Cyrus the great'‎) Alexis Ivanov (talk) 09:36, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
The correct transliteration is Ārāmgāh-e Kūrosh-e Bozorg. "Kurush" and "Buzurg" are incorrect. - LouisAragon (talk) 16:07, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
O and U in Buzurg and Bozorg are interchangeable. You can spell it as Buzorg too. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 21:37, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Ruler of Asfijab[edit]

After the Samanid conquest of Asfijab and extended their rule beyond the Syr Darya, I'm still confused on the mysterious rulers of that region who were vassals to the Samanid, Iranica implies it was Turkic Tribes (I suppose Qarluqs, the same people who the Qarakhanids are), also what the hell is Folana in the Ma'munids article, seems like a placeholder name Alexis Ivanov (talk) 23:44, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Your expertise[edit]

I believe this article, Battle of the Persian Gate, could use your expertise. Better referencing, etc. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:23, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Wher art thou?[edit]

Dude, are you gonna get back soon? - LouisAragon (talk) 04:47, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Hey man, sorry for that. Been really busy lately. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:46, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, I most certainly believe that (!) :-) While you were away, I sent you a pdf file in which you can find those two pages you wanted (Bosworth). You might have missed it, so please (re-)check your mail whenever you can. - LouisAragon (talk) 04:10, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Sure, I'll take a look at them in upcoming days and write back to you. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:54, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Asian 10,000 Challenge invite[edit]

Hi. The Wikipedia:WikiProject Asia/The 10,000 Challenge has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge and Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like South East Asia, Japan/China or India etc, much like Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. At some stage we hope to run some contests to benefit Asian content, a destubathon perhaps, aimed at reducing the stub count would be a good place to start, based on the current Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon which has produced near 200 articles in just three days. If you would like to see this happening for Asia, and see potential in this attracting more interest and editors for the country/countries you work on please sign up and being contributing to the challenge! This is a way we can target every country of Asia, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant! Thank you. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 04:49, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Sasanian Empire map part 4[edit]

Hello HistoryofIran, it's been a long time since I have been on Wikipedia. I have been extremely busy in my everyday livelyhood.

It's because of this that working on the map of the Sasanian Empire has taken a toll on me and furthermore been delayed as a result of more work.

I thought I'd let you and others who reached a consensus back in July of what's been going on. So as of recent I have returned to Wikipedia to see that the map in the infobox that I created was nominated for deletion on Wikimedia commons for me not providing a source in the description of it like how I did on Wikipedia. Which of course we know that the map is not accurate. But I do believe that providing sources none of the less stalled if not stopped the deletion discussion.

However, it is because of all of these dilemma's that I have formally decided to leave this in the hands of the graphists of the map workshop. I have given them all of the knowledge you gave to me. I encourage you to comment on there as well and give your two cents on the matter.

Here is the link to the map workshop request: Wikipedia:Graphics_Lab/Map_workshop#Sasanian_Empire_Map

I will send a message to Louisargon immmediately informing him as well on this.

Regards. Kirby (talk) 02:03, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

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C. Albania[edit]

Hey. Should the "Caucasian Albania" link in this sentence; "After the partition of the Kingdom of Armenia by Iran and Byzantium in 387 AD, the provinces of Artsakh and Utik, which had an ethnically mixed population, passed to Caucasian Albania.[48][49]" not link to Albania (satrapy), instead of the default Caucasian Albania? - LouisAragon (talk) 21:45, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Err dunno, I forgot how things with Caucasian Albania worked. This is what I wrote some time ago on the Albania (satrapy) talk page after having removed the merge template I suggested a few years earlier; "After looking at a few sources, it seems like besides the Caucasian Albania kingdom itself, the Sasanians also had a province named Arran/Ardan (Albania)." Can't remember what I meant by saying that though. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:08, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
Heh, it's alright. No big deal. Just it looked kinda odd to me as C. Albania had been incorporated into the Sasanian domains basically from its earliest days. Oh well. Another thing btw, could you please help me out with the dates of Sasanian Iberia? Iberia was, encompassed, for much longer under the Sasanian sway (whether vassalage, protectorate or direct control) than the date I have currently listed in the info box (523-626/27). The date in the info box is just the date after the uprising of that Vakhtang and the de facto abolition of its kingship, and when it came under direct Sasanian control. I have added the other timespans in the body of the article (basically copied from the Kingdom of Iberia page), showing when it was a tributary state and a vassal state (basically same thing), but I'd like more precise dates with sources, alike how you beautifully fixed the Sasanian Armenia page, with three timespans in the info box. Would you be able to help me out with this mate, to make it look like the Sasanian Armenia page? - LouisAragon (talk) 10:21, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Ya sure I can try. I'll have it done today. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:18, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
Looks neat, thanks! Are you gonna continue with the Sasanian era btw in the coming days? Lemme know your plans if you can. - LouisAragon (talk) 15:30, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Dunno, a interesting (Sasanian) topic hasn't really caught my eye. My edit on Sasanian Egypt was more and less copy and paste from another article I created a while back, whilst I only expanded the Sasanian Kirman article to once and for all stop the issue surrounding the article. But I am really content with how the Sasanian articles and Iranian-related articles look these days compared to a few years earlier. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:14, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, I definetely share that view. Quite a dramatic improvement, and that's an eufemism. Talking about the Sasanians; do you perhaps know how Lazica was referred to as in the Middle Persian sources? Lazistan is the Modern Persian transliteration, no? Btw, we should start working in the near future on fixing that Sasanian map. If you're still up for it, that is. There are quite a few bothersome fallacies in the current one as you know (I'm 100% sure we discussed this some time ago). - LouisAragon (talk) 17:40, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Yeah Lazistan is the Modern Persian transliteration, I think. It was probably used in Sasanian times as well, since addressing a country with -stan is pretty traditional. Pls I want to lie down and cry everytime I go on my Photoshop (which I eventually deleted many months back). Can't we find a lad to create a Sasanian map like this masterpiece of a map[34]? And yeah, we've discussed about it. Even though it hurts me to say it, but Sasanians didn't really control much of Central Asia under Khosrow II. However, Central Asia was for much longer under Sasanian authority than Anatolia/Egypt was, so I think it would be awesome if we could create a map à la this one [35]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:11, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
- Alright. I will do some more research on that. Stephen Rapp, who's a key author on Sasanian-Caucasus related matters, also uses Lazistan as the Persian translit. for Lazica when he talks about that era, and thus I assume as well that it was indeed the same thing back then.
- I see you once contacted the dude earlier who made that splendid map. :D He hasn't edited since September 2016 though. I guess I could ask Tataryn, who made the Byzantine Empire map, to see whether he could create one if we would supply him the needed sources. Let me know what you think.
- Regarding the map you linked, I hope you only mean the style its using right? Cause regarding territory, its packed with fallacies as well. Regarding its boundaries and territories, we should use numerous books and university-made maps to from one ultimate map imho. The Ayyubid map is made by the same principle. Yeah I know that about Khosrow II, and while it is an important thing to realize, we should keep in mind that the single most important feature of Sasanian politics for over 400 years was that it was targeted towards the area to the west, towards it arch rival, the Roman-Byzantine Empire. It makes only the most sense, as a minimum, to display the empire's maximum extent in the west, which was under Khosrow II, when they stood at the walls of Constantinople and had conquered the Levant, Egypt, and several of the Aegean islands. If that makes us have to include less area in C. Asia, then so be it, imho. - LouisAragon (talk) 18:36, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
-Yeah, I tried to make a map like his but failed horribly x).
-Yeah I meant by style. And yeah it is quite vital to have Khosrow's empire on the map, but hey, why not both :)? Well if we can find a person who is willing to do that of course, but yeah rather have the map show the Sasanian conquests in the west than east if we had to choose. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:43, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
I will try and contact Tataryn about it in the nearest future to see whether he's up for the challenge. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:06, 1 February 2017 (UTC)


Check your email, I just sent you the primary sources regarding the Afrighids you asked me some time ago about. Hope you find them useful.-- Mazandar (talk) 19:49, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

I can't find it for some reason. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:03, 2 February 2017 (UTC)


i mentioned you in Talk:Kalhor (Iranian tribe) to translate title of sources.would you please help us? --– Hossein Iran « talk » 17:36, 3 February 2017 (UTC)


Why is Wikipedia on a Samsung phone so stupid :/? I accidently removed many of my recent notifications, so please send them again if I haven't answered you.

Britannica isn't a reliable source?[edit]

You said "Britannica isn't a reliable source". What leads you to say that? —BarrelProof (talk) 18:52, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

BarrelProof; Several admins have told me and other editors that. You should write to Dougweller if you want to know more about it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:04, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. —BarrelProof (talk) 21:56, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
You're welcome. Hope I didn't sound rude, lol. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:29, 7 February 2017 (UTC)


Mr., if there is no consensus on the information it cannot be in preamble. Willem Floor, Edmund Herzig. Iran and the World in the Safavid Age. I.B.Tauris, 2015, ISBN 1780769903, 9781780769905. P. 1-2 "Throughout the twentieth century the dominant school in Iranian history writing (among both Iranian and international scholars) was the nationalist one. That approach emphasized the importance of the Safavid period in the emergence of modern Iran - some scholars going so far as to claim the Safavid Empire as an Iranian (proto-)nation state <...> Recent research has challenged this perspective"

See also Iranica:

The period of the Safavids, the dynasty that took control of Persia in the early 16th century, is often considered the beginning of modern Persian history, just as the state they created is said to mark the genesis of the Persian nation-state. It would be anachronistic to call Safavid Persia a modern nation-state, and it is important to realize that, in many ways, Safavid society continued Mongol and Timurid patterns and practices—ranging from its coinage to its administrative institutions. John Francis Templeson (talk) 21:34, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

So... because you don't agree with those sources they are apparently unreliable? That's not how Wikipedia works, mate. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:27, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
It's not about my view. I didn't say that Savory is unreliable. But if information is contested it cannot be in preamble. Awww, what I'm doing , I will just add my own sources (Minorsky, Floor, Iranica, same Savory, Petrushevsky and s.) that claim reverse John Francis Templeson (talk) 10:55, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
That didn't make any sense. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:33, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Some reading.........[edit]

Very interesting reading, especially the Qizilbash part. Thank you! --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:28, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Translation request[edit]

Hello, I noticed you are a native speaker of Farsi. I am doing some research for the article Sepehran Airlines; however, most sources are only in Farsi. I found these two, which seem to be from reliable websites. Would you be willing to read these articles and tell me their main points? Thank you if this is possible. — Sunnya343✈ (háblamemy work) 02:22, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

I speak natively Persian, yes. However, I unfortunately can't read the Perso-Arab script. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:41, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
Oh okay, well thanks for your time. — Sunnya343✈ (háblamemy work) 03:16, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Sack of Shamakhi (1721)[edit]

Hey. Just nominated it for GA. Been a very long time since I nominated an article. Your thoughts? - LouisAragon (talk) 08:08, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: It looks nice. A infobox with a picture would be great. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:46, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
Yeah I'm in quite a dire need of an additional proper picture. Shamakhi in/around 1721, a pic of Fath-Ali Khan Daghestani, Husayn-Qoli Khan/Vakhtang VI's counter campaign, a pic showing Lezgins during that era...any of these would be splendid. What infobox do you mean btw? Infobox civilian? (E.g. the one visible at Armenian Genocide)? - LouisAragon (talk) 23:13, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Infobox military conflict would fit better imo. Well you could put this picture [36] in the infobox. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:13, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Award for you works on history of Persia[edit]

I award you this Simorgh for your contributions on history of Persia. --Z 16:56, 20 February 2017 (UTC)