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Shapur II[edit]

I made some wording changes to your edit, hope that was alright. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:05, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Kansas Bear: Actually I had already changed that piece of information in the edit I am doing right now, but sure - your writing style is way better than mine, appreciate it ! :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:08, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, though I think I messed up your last edit. I will let you fix it, again. Sorry about that. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:13, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
Kansas Bear: No that's fine! help is always appreciated, and as I said - your writing style is way better than mine, so I'm glad you made that edit. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:15, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
No problem. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:17, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
@HistoryofIran:, you don't like the previous pic? I was wondering, will you perhaps, if you won't re-add it to the infobox, add it somewhere else in the article? It's a beautiful plate. I see you're very busy on the article, so I won't interfere now, and thought I'd propose it to you better. )) - LouisAragon (talk) 21:17, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Well, the plate is beautiful, but this one is a better portrayal of him, but sure - I'll add the plate picture somewhere. Can't do it right now cuz there is no space for the picture, so yeah.. plenty of work to do :(. Hopefully I finish this one. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:21, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
Aaaaightt, thanks dude. Yeah that plate is just amazing and should def receive a spot. Btw, idk why, but those busts of Shapur have so much lightning on them that it spoils their awesomeness (I mean look at his headgear; can't get more badass than that). Haha. Btw, something different, I added Category:Iranian noble families to Undiladze. Do you agree with that? They were Georgian in ethnicity and origin, but they served for 100% in the Iranian ranks. Let me know sometime whenever you got time.
Anyway bro, the main reason I came here is just to wish you a very happy new year in advance! Hope you will have a nice celebration tonight! - LouisAragon (talk) 20:50, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


im on my phone so i make this simple abd quick: no thats a bad thing to do, for ezample imagine what ideas pan-nationalists (especially pan-turks rip) will get with this, they werent Iranian so i dont think it should be there, it would be a mess. lets keep it simple, and happy new year to u m8 :)!

Lel, Türkiye bir numera (put that in translate if you don't speak some Turkish). Never 4get, gretest country. Aight i will remove it then. - LouisAragon (talk) 00:52, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: btw i dont think it is a good idea either to add 1st-century Greek people category on non-Greeks. The Iranian people of Greek descent category should maybe be added instead. Categories like these can be misunderstood and used by other people as a part of their nationalistic ideology and as you know the parthian kings werent greek but that category implies that

I concur. I will change it. Btw, it should be changed on Tiridates I of Armenia as well, I think? He was the brother of the Parthian king, nota bene. Should I add "people of Greek descent" to the aforementioned article, or "Iranian people of Greek descent."? - LouisAragon (talk) 19:46, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: "Iranian people of Greek descent" is the most accurate one if you ask me. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:48, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran:, yeah, I thought so myself as well. Started fixing some of it accordingly. If you happen to stumble more across such things, please do as well. (especially as there are tons of Iranian rulers from the pre-islamic era that were partly Greek). - LouisAragon (talk) 20:24, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: sure mate --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:26, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
@HistoryofIran:, mate, regarding this edit; the Achaemenids didnt hold any land beyond the lower banks of the Indus River. We've been making that map after extensive talks, some months ago. Furthermore, its completely modelled after maps made by academics. We should really re-instate it. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:36, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: I was referring to Central Asia, I'm pretty sure the Achaemenids held much more land there than it shows on the map? Looking on the current map, it seems that some parts of Sogdia isn't even included as part of their territory. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:40, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

I dont think that was the intention of the maker, if really any noticeable part of Sogdia is omitted. But I'd say its pretty "well" covered on the map? I cant see any "major" parts of it being omitted? Yeah, I thought so as well initially that they held more areas initially, but then I found out that they never really managed to control the regions "we both have in mind" (above Uzbekistan and such). The peoples of that region were way too agressive and nomadic to put actual effective control over. - LouisAragon (talk) 03:29, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: sogdia was a larger region back then, and since it was a achaemenid province, the territorries in the east should be larger (not that large as you think im saying) I'll take a closer look on it tommorow. I'll try to see if I can make a more detailed map later, something resembling the map of the ayyubid dynasty.

Aight, sure thing man. Btw, regarding the Sajid dynasty and the Sallarid dynasty infoboxes. I added "Eurasia" for the formers' continent, and "Caucasus, Middle East" for the latters' region. Fine with you? (dont really care about those labels, just to keep in mind what your personal stance is on such things, as imo large parts of the "South Caucaus", except Georgia and swaths of the Rep. of Azerbaijan, is really 110% Asia to me, and was apart from that always like that historically as well as cited by numerous authors). Perhaps continent-> "Eurasia", and region -> "Middle East" suffices the best for both? - LouisAragon (talk) 08:29, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: sure --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:27, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Check dizz btw;

(...) "Heraclius II, after his occupation of Erivan in 1749 and defeat of his former ally Azad in 1751-2, could afford largely to ignore the changing situation south of the Aras. After it became obvious that Mashhad (a minor Afsharid remnant at that time) was no longer the seat of the government, and probably about the time of the Zand army's progress through Azarbaijan (1762-1763), Heraclius tendered his submission to the Zand Vakil and received his diploma as Vali of Gurjistan - the traditional Safavid office, by this time an empty honorific."

- Fisher et al. (1991). The Cambridge History of Iran Vol. 7. page 96 Cambridge University Press, 10 okt. 1991 ISBN 978-0521200950
Though Karim Khan most likely didnt have much (or even any) control over Georgia, dont forget Heraclius even delivereed the wanna-be Azad Khan Afghan to Karim Khan Zand as well, when he defeatedd him. For the record, this is historically very important that he even formally acknowledged his submissive status to the Iranian king, something thats conservatively (almost dogmatic) and usually taken to have ended with the death of Nader Shah in 1747, until the reconquest of Tbilisi by Agha Mohammad Khan in 1795 (Battle of Krtsanisi). I didnt know this myself btw until today. Did you? - LouisAragon (talk) 07:55, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Me neither, sounds interesting. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:32, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Yeah indeed. Btw, thanks again for linking this site. It has some pretty ok stuff, though most of the material in my opinion is rather "general" material rather than the specific material (people etc, notable individuals, not-monarchs though) we're both often looking for (as well as that many of the stuff thats cool is already to be found on Wikimedia). I assume you dont have some site for that as well? Haha. For the princes, generals, viziers, other noted people, etc.? Btw take a look at this peculiar pic I managed to upload today. Dat "Juan" though. - LouisAragon (talk) 14:10, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Nah, unfortunately that's the best site I know :( --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:09, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Ok no probs! We'll figure more ways out for ourselves. Btw, which version do you like more? I requested an image enhancement at the graphics lab, but it seems the previous version was better looking? What do you say? - LouisAragon (talk) 14:09, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
Also mate, by any circumstance, do you have access to any sources that name all Safavid ambassadors, governors, etc? I just created another article about a noted Safavid governor (Mohammad Reza Beg), but if we had the full lists, it would be so much better. - LouisAragon (talk) 09:54, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Sadly not. Btw as you can see I am once again much more inactive - I will probably continue to do so since the holiday has ended. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:51, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
I see. Well, thanks for letting me know. (btw, did you at last manage to check you mail? Haha) I'm also most certainly gonna drop some activity due to that. - LouisAragon (talk) 16:46, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: No because my email's still having problems :( --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:30, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Tahir ibn Husayn[edit]

Hello HistoryofIran! I was translating your version of the article Tahir ibn Husayn to and I'm having a problem with the second paragraph of the first section. Could you help me? I read all the book you put and I glanced the Encyclopedia of Islam, Encyclopaedia Iranica and The Cambridge History of Iran and none of these sources mention any episode involved Tahir loosing one of his eyes and either that he was named "al-A'war". Moreover, I can't find any information about him being imprisoned and mistreated by Ali ibn Isa ibn Mahan. Could you please say what source did you read to include that paragraph? The only information of this paragraph that I confirmed was that he was involved in Harthama ibn A'yan's campaign against Rafi ibn al-Layth in 808.--Renato de carvalho ferreira (talk) 02:17, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Renato de carvalho ferreira: I have no idea why I didn't add the sources for that information back then, anyway, I remember the thing about his eye is from this source [1]. However I can't remember the source about him being mistreated. One sec. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:23, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

I was reading the Iranica's article and there is a mention, indeed a Daniel's supposition, that he was maybe involved in Rafi's revolt before working together with Harthama to suppress it due Ali mistreated him. The only thing I can't find now is just he being imprisoned.--Renato de carvalho ferreira (talk) 07:19, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Renato de carvalho ferreira: Ops, forgot to respond to this yesterday; Yeah, unfortunately I couldn't find the source about him being imprisoned after some searching :(. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:29, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 15[edit]

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Achaemenid Empire map[edit]

Heyy man,

How are you doing these days? Enduring the weather well? Haha. I wanted to bring this matter up; I remember you told some days ago that you perhaps wanted to create a new superb map of the Achaemenid Empire, alike the map provided on the Ayyubid dynasty article. Are you still up for creating this? If so, let me know, and I'll aid you as much as I can regarding sourcing. Or is there anything else atm you want to focus on? In either cases, let me know. :-) PS: it seems the issues with your email didn't get solved, did they? Take care. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:54, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: If I have time, then sure. Sadly I do not have the time right now :(. Btw yeah I'm thinking about creating a new email, I'll keep you updated on it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:17, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: sigh [2] --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:01, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Aight man, keep me indeed updated about it. ;-) It's pretty important. - LouisAragon (talk) 19:44, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: yay it's working --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:56, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Good, good. The same mail address as priorly right? Btw, should Gregory the Illuminator be added to the list of notables on the House of Suren page? - LouisAragon (talk) 20:25, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: yep to both. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:41, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Ok! Btw, ever read this new one by Willem Floor? Some top notch material I have to say. Btw, I received some new great references from the OTRS staff some days ago specifically regarding the numerous Georgian gholam families in the Safavid administration. Will be some nice articles. - LouisAragon (talk) 20:27, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

- I think I have.

- Nice, but wat is a OTRS staff? And how do you get sources from them? --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:33, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant JSTOR not OTRS, haha. Here you can request (parts of) any paper, book, journal, etc, you'd like to have. It's great. - LouisAragon (talk) 20:36, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Niceee :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:39, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, it surely is mate. Have you ever used it? If not, you should definetely not hesitate to, might you need something. Response time is pretty short as well, shorter than you'd expect. They basically have access to any source in the world. - LouisAragon (talk) 20:52, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Nice - when you say parts of, how much do you ca. mean? Cuz I'm in need of much information. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:55, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Well, as of like 2 months ago, I started asking quite some stuff through JSTOR, and I received everything I needed. You can ask whole chapters and stuff. As long as its not a whole book basically, its all right. (I believe its because they have to scan everything in manually namely, if they dont have it on some hard-drive, haha). But yeah, ask as much as you want/need; they'll provide you with it. Here's my last request thats still visible on the page; I received all the material like two weeks ago, as you see from the date of my request, in quite a fast time. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:08, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Nice, will do - thanks :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:10, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
Mate, check your mail, sent you some sources. - LouisAragon (talk) 15:59, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated[edit]

Hi, I'm Hot Pork Pie. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Siyah al-Uswari, and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you. Hot Pork Pie 22:53, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

wat --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:34, 20 January 2016 (UTC)


I saw your reverts on Ghormeh sabzi. Based on my experience, it's not really helpful when you deal with multiple-account users. The best solution is WP:SPI. Report obvious evidences (for example, [3], [4], [5]) and let admins deal with them. --Zyma (talk) 22:23, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Alright, will do if the problem continues, thanks :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:25, 24 January 2016 (UTC)


Hey. Should we add Category:16th-century Iranian people, Category:17th-century Iranian people, and Category:18th-century Iranian people to the major Category:People of the Safavid Empire category? - LouisAragon (talk) 04:27, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon: I know I've used this card many times, but I think it would be too much of a mess, and (here it comes) other articles don't normally tend to do that. Besides, as you know, not all of the people of the Safavid Empire were of Iranian descent. I'm having an important test tommorow, so I don't know when I'll answer you back in my mail. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:15, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Aight. Sure, leave me a reply whenever you happen to have time mate. Btw, any idea where we can get the coloured version of this pic? If we could find it (even if its copyrighted) I can ask the graphics lab to give our own pic the original color scheme. Good luck with your test! :-) - LouisAragon (talk) 17:50, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Nope, tried to find it some time ago, wasn't very fortunate :/. Btw emailed you back. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:22, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
Ai, yeah, already thought so. Too bad. :/ Btw, should Category:Rebellions in Iran be added to the Category:Rebellions against the Safavid Empire and Category:Rebellions against the Sasanian Empire cats? Gn for now mate. - LouisAragon (talk) 00:05, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Hmmm, since not all of the rebellions/revolts were in Iran, it would be kinda misfitting - maybe we could use Category:Rebellions against empires and Category:Medieval rebellions (for the Sasanians ofc) instead? That's what other empire articles do. Actually I honestly don't know, maybe Category:Rebellions in Iran could be used as well, I have no idea. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:39, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, its kinda a hard one. Back then, the territory was part of Iran, but its not nowadays. And not all rebellions took place in what is nowadays Iran, unlike, for example, the Russian Empire (the latter which therefore also has the category Category:Rebellions in Russia rightfully so) Lets just leave it actually. How did your test go btw? :-) Btw, I just made Shahverdi Sultan, but most of the material regarded him needs to be downloaded and is not really easy to be found. Do you by any chance have some stuff about him somewhere? - LouisAragon (talk) 18:34, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

- It didn't go well, luckily it wasn't an important one, and doesn't count for anything. It was a Latin test, aka "the don't make me commit suicide test". I really HATE Latin, luckily I will have never have something about it again.

- I do have a few small sources about him, but you could always send the source(s) of him through the email, so I could expand it even more. The article needs some changes, for a start, the infobox doesn't look really fitting, but that's just my opinion. I'll help you in a sec. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:40, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Ahhhhh you had one of those "termination" tests? Yeah, those are so annoying to put it polite. We never really have them "separately", as in separate tests about them, and usually they're just incorporated as part of the main test itself. But yeah, I obviously understand your qq. Just saw your changes on the article - thanks a lot mate. Nice job. Btw, I have the same infobox at Mohammad Reza Beg - should it be removed there as well? Personally, I think it looks pretty ok there at least. - LouisAragon (talk) 22:12, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: No because the Mohammad Reza Beg article has a picture and much information, which the Shahverdi article don't. Maybe the context of the infobox should be changed but other than that it's good. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:35, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Yeah. Btw, do you concur with the structure as used here in the lede? (as in, whether it kinda overlaps with how you formulate ledes regarding such people). - LouisAragon (talk) 21:55, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
LouisAragon: Hmmm.. I'm not sure, it's fine I guess - made som minor changes. Btw, Bayg/Bek/ should always be written as 'Beg' in Safavid articles and the dynasties that follow. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:38, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Haji Bektash Veli[edit]

What would you say to showing both possible origins? FYI, I searched my copy of EoI, Vol. I and could not find anything about Nishapur. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:22, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Kansas Bear: Ops, accidently restored that part, soz - will remove it now. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:30, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Abu'l-Hasan Isfaraini or Ab-ol-abbas Esfarayeni[edit]

Dear HistoryofIran, recently I found out a controversy about the vizierateship of these father and son. While Iranica has an article about the first one and mention him as vizier of Mahmud of Ghazni, Encyclopaedia Islamica has an article for the second one which consider him as the first vizier of Mahmud! Furthermore there is a verse from Ferdowsi about Ab-ol-abbas Esfarayeni:

Kojā fazl rā masnad o marqad ast

Neshastangah-e Fazl-e ben Ahmad ast

and Fazl ibn Ahmad is Ab-ol-abbas Esfarayeni. Shfarshid (talk) 17:38, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

No idea. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:57, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Abu'l-Fadl al-Bal'ami[edit]

The problem in that article is not transliteration, in Iranica it is mentioned that Bal'ami's predecessor is "Abu'l-Fadl ibn Yaqub Nishaburi" and his successor is "Abu Ali al-Jaihani" (Not Abu Abdallah al-Jaihani). Best regards Shfarshid (talk) 17:53, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Well.. sorry, my bad. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:17, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Alqas Mirza[edit]

Hey man! Wasn't there for a few days. Hope you're doing alright, like always. :-) I was wondering; I just made Alqas Mirza, and I found a source (in Turkish) that states that he was born in Karabagh. Do you think its WP:RS? I'm not sure myself. Btw, like always, feel absolutely free to change/adjust/continue etc whenever on the article. I'm most likely not gonna finish it in the near future namely. Btw, did you check your mail? I sent something some days ago. It'll crack you up I think as well, lel. - LouisAragon (talk) 03:40, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

LouisAragon I'll never trust Turkish sources, for example some time ago I found one that seemed 'reliable' but began stating that Avicenna was of Turkic origin...:/ I don't think this one is reliable either tbh. And you can only guess what the agenda of these kind of sources have when its about a Safavid family member (omg iz turkic bla bla bla) --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:58, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Yeah...I had kinda the same concerns due to the same reasons. I'll skip it. - LouisAragon (talk) 16:16, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
Btw mate, you told some time ago that the infobox was a bit unconventional here. Could you perhaps adjust it on that article so that it looks according to what you had in mind yourself? I will follow that pattern namely when creating info boxes for other office holders that were not of the royal dynasty itself. - LouisAragon (talk) 17:33, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
Sure, I'll see what I can do. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:55, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! - LouisAragon (talk) 16:46, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
Oh, btw, mate. Whenever you'll find time to fix that infobox, we really need to Abbas I's Kakhetian and Kartlian campaigns expand this article sometime. Its a really important article for Safavid history. I just corrected the name of the title which was factually incorrect (there never was any Gokce war), and did some small edits, but it really needs some expansion. Let me know what you think about this. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:55, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
Another thing; I found out that the Autar Khan you're reffering to here is this person -> Otar Beg Orbeliani. I initially named the article Otar Beg, and was thinking about naming him Otar Khan as well (he's referred to as both by modern-day writers), but we should try as often as possible to add surnames to the titles as well I think (if its a really distinctive surname so to say) in order to avoid confusion with other articles. His original surname was Orbeliani/Baratishvili-Obelishvili/Qaplanshvili, hence I moved it to Otar Beg Orbeliani (although Otar Khan Orbeliani would be alright too). - LouisAragon (talk) 17:55, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Abu'l-Hasan Isfaraini or Ab-ol-abbas Esfarayeni (2)[edit]

Dear historyofiran, I just want to inform you that in the second paragraph of the article AḤMAD MAYMANDĪ in Iranica, Ab-ol-abbas Esfarayeni is mentioned as the first vizier of Mahmud of Ghazni, and it's in contrast with the article ABU’L-ḤASAN ESFARĀʾĪNĪ in that encyclopedia. Best regards Shfarshid (talk) 15:41, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

They're the same.. they aren't two different people. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:55, 7 February 2016 (UTC)