User talk:Hooiwind

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Hello, Hooiwind, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! 

Rigadoun (talk) 20:05, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

A Fleming![edit]

Hello, I noticed your revisions to Small ring (Brussels). From time to time, I translate Belgium articles from French into English, which leaves them with something of a French bias, which I cannot correct as I speak no Dutch. May I ask your help from time to time to help with Dutch aspects of Belgium articles? -Oreo Priest 13:51, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Also, thank you. -Oreo Priest 13:51, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


Mind going over Saint Gaugericus Island? I think only the name of the island itself still needs translation. -Oreo Priest 02:17, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Good work again! On a side note, please don't change Senne to Zenne. Although I try to avoid taking a language stance by anglicizing everything to a ridiculous degree (I have never heard, and probably will never hear a reference to anything Saint Gaugericus), this is not possible with the river. I choose Senne because it is more familiar to the inhabitants of Brussels and also returns more google hits. What you should probably do instead is make sure it says ... Senne (Zenne) at the beginning of the article. I only take so long to bring it up because I'll probably have another batch coming up soon in which this is the case. Thanks again. -Oreo Priest 12:46, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

How did you find User:Oreo Priest/Voûtement de la Senne? It's not even in the namespace yet and I hadn't told you about it! I was actually about to, but there's still a wee bit left to translate (fr->en) and a bit of cleanup I was going to do before I brought you in. Because it's not in the namespace we can be a lot less formal about where we put notes to each other and that sort of thing. Just try to make sure any notes are in bold so we don't forget to take them out when we transfer it to the namespace. You're welcome to start any time you like.

As for my interest in Belgium, I live in Brussels because I'm doing an exchange there. Basically all the articles I've written on Belgium are derivatives of the covering of the Senne, which I find fascinating. I'm sure you've been to Brussels, and there's no trace of a river at all. So the articles I've written have mostly been peripheral to that one (or there were links, and I was surprised a topic so noteworthy had no article), so I made it. -Oreo Priest 12:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, by start, I didn't mean help to build the article (though you could if you want), just to make sure that Dutch gets more or less equal footing with French, and resolve a few linguistic difficulties that we have. -Oreo Priest 13:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
It's more or less done now, so would you mind looking over it? -Oreo Priest 15:49, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Mind taking a look at GB Supermarkets? Pretty self-explanatory (and short) I think. -Oreo Priest 13:58, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Covering of the Senne[edit]

I was going to tell you I moved it, but looks like you're already on top of it. I've nominated it to be on the main page in the DYK section, and if you want, you can monitor its progress or propose a hook here. I've also nominated it for GA status, but that can be watched on the talk page. -Oreo Priest 11:35, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm back! I've got a cartographer making a map of the covering of the Senne which is not actually done yet, though it is already in the article (take a look). I'm going to ask him to make a Dutch version; I should be able to handle most of the names of things. Would you mind providing me a translation for what should go in the yellow box in Dutch? Also, how would you say "Augustinian Church (demolished 1893)"? I'll give you a link to the final copy to do with as you like. -Oreo Priest 22:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
That seems like quite an epic project, and I'm actually quite interested in the answer myself. Please let me know when you're done so I can list it for translation to English.
English WP has terrible coverage of Belgium related topics. When translating fr:Seconde enceinte de Bruxelles (which I'll probably ask you to have a look at shortly) I noticed that there's no article in English for the Bombardment of Brussels, which, even knowing the sorry state of Belgium articles on en:WP, surprised me. (There isn't one in Dutch either, or at least there's no interwiki). Talk to you soon, Oreo Priest 11:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
So I don't have your map yet, but the article just got promoted to Good Article, with your help being instrumental. Thanks again. -Oreo Priest 18:26, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


Updated DYK query On 14 November, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Covering of the Senne, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Zzyzx11 (Talk) 16:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It just barely made it. Some guy put the article as being created Oct. 31 without telling me, probably because he looked at the history (I moved the page, not copy-pasted). I happened to check the noms (to be honest because I was surprised it wasn't up yet), and got it put back. Phew!

Also, pretty good for a newcomer. Good work! -Oreo Priest 16:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


Hi, I've just removed the "unofficial" from the statement "Rhode-Saint-Genèse in French" as I don't think it is necessary nor used with other articles about multilingual places that have only one official language. Maybe I just haven't seen any other articles using that. --moyogo 10:09, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Espace Léopold[edit]

Hi, I appreciate your concern and by all means correct the Dutch. However on Espace Léopold, it is the name used on English for the complex, I have heard no English name for it and have never heard the Dutch version used (indeed miss-translations of it seem common) so I hope you don't mind if there is slight bias there (as in, have Dutch in brackets afterwards, but not side by side as, as I have said, it is the French name that is used in English)- J Logan t: 10:19, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I understand you want it level. And regarding the recent Dutch spellings you've put in on B&EU, I only had French spellings so in that respect it certainly isn't me wanting to be biased towards Francophones! :). Thanks for your help on it.- J Logan t: 10:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


So on the talk page, user:Ivo von Rosenqvist put forward what seems to me like a pretty convincing argument to move the page. Do you mind if I do, or do you think otherwise? -Oreo Priest 22:02, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

You certainly are not one of the provocateurs, I think your take on things is generally quite fair, and you don't let Dutch get steamrollered completely. In fact, I generally consider you fair enough that that that's why I referred the renaming problem of the Zenne to you for your judgement.
As for the article I just translated, you can take a look through it if you like. I've opted for single names (as opposed to the Bruxelles/Brussel style) in order to streamline things, using French for Brussels and Dutch for Flanders (eg Halle). I hope that's OK with you, as all of them have links to the bilingual names. Happy editing! -Oreo Priest 14:40, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Good call, I've changed it. -Oreo Priest 14:53, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
OK I think I made all of the changes. I'm not sure why you thought I was British, but I guess they are the most numerous English speaking group in Belgium. Canadian English also has many spelling similarities with British English (but also many with AmEng). I don't really see why a Brit couldn't speak French: the article Languages of the European Union, which I find fascinating, suggests that a quarter of Brits can speak French, and I would assume that one living in Brussels would be one of them. -Oreo Priest 10:55, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Don't worry, there was never any offence taken. With regards to the map, it's just a poor choice of colours. If you look very closely, you'll see that Flanders is in fact in the 50+ % colour, while the UK and Netherlands are in the almost identical 20-49% colour. As for Canadians (from outside Quebec) speaking French, as I understand it's a fairly similar situation to Walloons speaking Dutch: It's supposed to happen but doesn't. Cf. Languages of Belgium and Bilingualism_in_Canada#Personal_bilingualism_in_Canada. Having just looked at the former, it sort of begs the question: what on earth do the Walloons learn in school if only 19% speak Dutch and 17% speak English? -Oreo Priest 13:33, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Francization of Brussels[edit]

Just a few things it would be nice if you can clarify (in the article):

  • Austrian Period: "After the Dutch Golden Age of the 17th century, Dutch was considered even less as a language for politics, culture, and economy." Why would this be? It isn't really clear to me, and doesn't seem to be explained in Dutch either.
  • "...Flemish bourgeoisie, who were later perjoratively labeled the Franskiljons." What does this mean?

Cheers, -Oreo Priest 15:36, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I've explained them in the article. Don't hesitate to add directly to the article though; I'll just smooth out the wording if it sounds unnatural. You shouldn't worry too much though, in almost all cases your English strikes me as perfectly normal (quite a compliment actually, I aspire to not sound like a goon when I speak or write in French). -Oreo Priest 16:42, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
To be honest, I don't really think the quote adds much, as it doesn't really illuminate anything that the prose doesn't, in addition to being placed out of chronological order (by stylistic necessity). Furthermore, it has little factual value as Voltaire was well known for his poetic exaggeration; see for example: A few acres of snow. -Oreo Priest 12:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I noticed your recent cleanup of the article corrected a number of spelling mistakes. It also, however, changed the spellings from US English to British English. Not that it makes much difference to me, but I'm wondering why you did that. Is that how your spellchecker is set by chance? Also, just so you know, that sort of thing can be controversial, but I doubt it will be in this case. Also, city walls can't spontaneously disappear - that would imply it was sudden and without any ascribable cause (not just without any specific logical reason). To say they spontaneously disappear would make the reader think they vanished in a puff of smoke. Cheers! -Oreo Priest talk 22:06, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
See WP:ENGVAR. It's most likely that the only reason it is that way on the Belgium page is because it started that way, the link doesn't seem close enough for it to have to be British English. That does not apply to other pages in the project, however. In fact, now that I think about it, the page has to be written in AmEng because "Francization" itself is AmEng, otherwise it would be "Francisation". Fixing all that, however, is as simple as going through it with a spellchecker once it's done. -Oreo Priest talk 07:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Grand Place / Grote Markt[edit]

Mind taking a look at (and participating in) the move discussion? After what seems like years at Grand Place, some maverick seems to have moved it. My rationale is at WP:RM, and is pretty standard. I'd like if you participate both to hear your opinion and try to reach quorum. -Oreo Priest 23:17, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Implicit Brussels Rule[edit]

The "implicit Brussels rule" (which you seem to have devised) has worked wonders in ending petty linguistic disputes. I think we should somehow try to make it the Explicit Brussels Rule, and codify it somehow (perhaps at WPBelgium, which is in shambles). I propose the more or less exact wording be: of French title, Dutch first, French second, French throughout, except when Dutch is more relevant, in which case the roles are reversed. What do you think? -Oreo Priest 08:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I call the disputes petty because they detract from the focus of building an encyclopedia, although they are legitimate and symbolic discussions.
"we should also specify that as for Belgian-related articles, Dutch deserves priority": I don't want to touch that with a ten foot pole. That will be ridiculously controversial (and I don't agree), so let's stick to Brussels for now.
I like the idea of a banner. We should make it pretty minimalist (I was thinking about the width of the "new messages" banner) so as to not fill the talk page. If we wanted to get more advanced, we could make it a pop-out of the WPBelgium infobox to save space and relevance. Cf. the Alberta subheading of WPCanada at Talk:Stoney Squaw Mountain.
It's good we agree on most of the substance. I think the infobox should follow the same order as the first line. One thing to clarify/discuss: when I said French throughout, I was referring to the subject of the article. I propose that bilingual French/Dutch names (or calques) only be given if the subject lacks its own article. If it has it, we'll just put the title of the corresponding article with a wikilink. Not replacing any established consensus is also a good call. At some point, we should open this discussion to others at WPBelgium, although participation will probably be low. Still, it'd be better than someone seemingly arbitrarily slapping rules on articles with seemingly no consensus backing it up. Thoughts? -Oreo Priest 14:42, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Ok great. I think we should still specify that at least the article title is to be used throughout in its own article. What are your thoughts on what format to propose? I.e. banner, template addition, or other? Once we decide, I think I'll start this fresh and move it to the WPBelgium talk page. -Oreo Priest 16:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Quite frankly, I think a whole infobox template is too large and obtrusive for something which (should be) minor. How does this grab you? Change WPBelgium template to be like this with a Brussels thingy below, replacing the Alberta thingy (and with no ratings, because WPBelgium is to primitive for an assessment scale):

[Ridiculously long template code removed]

A) That can mention the Brussels naming rule in bold, which will link to a page like WPBelgium/Brussels naming rule, which will:
B) Have a whole list of the naming rule in algorithmic form, with the rule in a nutshell at the top, if desired:
  1. If there is an English name...
  2. If there is no English name...
  3. If the Dutch should be preferred...

Etc. Thoughts? -Oreo Priest talk 16:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Brussels Naming Rule[edit]

Ok great. You start codifying them at Wikipedia:WikiProject Belgium/Brussels naming rule, while I fidget with the template. Sound OK? I'm going to use the iris flag for the Brussels subproject, OK? -Oreo Priest talk 17:05, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

After about three hours of struggling with the WPBelgium and WP Canada templates I gave up on the Brussels drop-down box. If someone wants to go through that trouble later, they can. I did, however, make this, which took about 5 minutes:
I think we should call them the naming conventions instead of the naming rule too. It seems less pretentious that way. What do you think? -Oreo Priest talk 18:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
I've moved it to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Belgium for discussion, and I think I've finished it off. I noticed you used the subjunctive ("Suppose this were to be French") in the guidelines, which made me smile. Most English speakers (even educated ones) don't know how to use it properly or even that it exists. Often I get "corrected" when I use the subjunctive when speaking. Good work! (I did know the word Dikkenek by the way. (and saw the movie)) -Oreo Priest talk 21:47, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


Congratulations on your FA promotion! I'm still eagerly awaiting its full translation into English! -Oreo Priest talk 21:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Bombardment of Brussels[edit]

Actually the mistake was mine, I got carried away copying and pasting. You said Central Station all along. The article should be ready for daylight soon, depending on how much I neglect my studies for it in the next week or so.

I'd like to be able to read and translate your articles and the Dutch stuff, but I simply can't, and I'm leaving your tiny little country in early July. I haven't left yet but I'm already starting to miss it. Maybe If I'll actually learn Dutch if I ever move back to this neck of the woods. Cheers, Oreo Priest talk 19:33, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm almost done, so would you mind going through it for corrections/comments/ whatever? I'd have finished up, but I have to catch the Eurostar to London now! -Oreo Priest talk 17:16, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Vrijheid van het gezinshoofd[edit]


Could you please help clarify what this means in the English article? I did my best guess.

--Daveblack (talk) 19:52, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Spelling in F. of. B[edit]


Thanks for looking over the article and correcting it.

I am not sure if you are aware, but per , the spelling (British vs. American) should remain consistent and be changed only if there are strong national ties to Britain or British-English lands (of which I see none in our article). Since I am American, the article is written in American English. Would you mind reverting those specific changes?

Once again, thanks a lot for the help and congratulations on your featured article.



Updated DYK query On 1 May, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article bombardment of Brussels, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Royalbroil 00:25, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Exams, etc.[edit]

ULB decided to rain hell on me; I have fourteen exams and I'm right in the middle of them. I'll comment on the discussion and tidy up some loose ends now, but I'm going on wikibreak until the 13 of June. (And I'm actually going to use Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Scripts/WikiBreak Enforcer, so it'll be very real for once).

Good luck fighting the controversies in my absence. After that, I'll be leaving the country on July 4, which seems a bit to soon, but hey, life goes on. Cheers! Oreo Priest talk 12:54, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

The reason would be the procrastination factor. And for the record, ULB exams are chaos. Good luck! -Oreo Priest talk 11:52, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Not that it's anywhere near finished, but I figure we should nominate Frenchification of Brussels for FA when it's done. Not that I have any experience with FA reviews (I prefer to spend my time writing articles than pedantically referencing every fact), but it seems to me like it could make it. Which means it could potentially be on the main page for a day! Naturally we would need your help. -Oreo Priest talk 07:39, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I was just in Membre for the weekend, and I had a bit of a hard time believing I was still in Belgium. I'm done school too, and if last summer's any indication, I probably won't be on WP that much either. As for the metro template, I don't really like it (doesn't seem very encyclopedic to me), but I'm not going to oppose it. I also found a way around the WikiBreak Enforcer (which you could have copy-pasted into the other language accounts I'm guessing), in addition to making a whole bunch of IP edits, so I'm not sure it really changed that much. Less time on the watchlist I guess. Good work on the translations! It's funny how being free at last really gives you energy to write (I did history of silk last year and it was an epic undertaking). Cheers! -Oreo Priest talk 19:33, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Metro template[edit]

Hi, I was wondering how useful people find templates like nl:Sjabloon:metrostation Brussel uitstappen on the other wikis? I haven't seen them around on the English wiki for any city.- J Logan t: 12:09, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any problem on my browsers, I use Safari and Firefox too. Perhaps it is the settings. As for the metro thing, I'll try to find somewhere to propose it maybe.- J Logan t: 14:02, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
FYI, I've put in a proposal for a "nearest metro" template for the London Underground. If WP:LON back it, then we have a strong precedent for a Brussels template.- J Logan t: 14:26, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

English wiki uses official names[edit]

You wrote "English wiki uses official names" can you direct me to a Wikipedia guideline or policy which says so, because English Wikipidia usually uses spelling as used in reliable third party English language sources see WP:MOS#Foreign terms --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 17:48, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Brussels - Dutch spelling[edit]

I'm in the process of going over the Brussels and the European Union with new info, though my source only gives the French names for places. I need a Dutch speaker to give the Dutch translations for these places, if you have a moment would you be able to pop over now and then to correct my unintended French bias? Thanks.- J Logan t: 18:15, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Flemish Movement[edit]

Relax, my friend. Don't have a hernia. I'm just doing my best to correct some poor editing and additions by another editor. No need to call it bullshit!!!!! It only sets the discussion off in a negative direction. I was born in Flanders, 62 years ago. My attempts, here at Wikipedia, are to create an awareness, in the readers of articles about Belgium/Netherlands/Low Countries etc., about Flemish. It is Not Holland, it is not the Netherlands, and it is not like English/American. My personal and Wikipedian experiences when dealing with Dutch editors on MANY sites is that they have little regard for giving ANY status to Flemish. They would rather just throw a blanket of "Dutchness" over the whole thing and be on their way. But what about us Flemmings that have to live under that blanket? Please understand. I left Belgium for America 55 years ago. But my heart still lives there. I guess I just don't want MY heritage taken away and replaced by my neighbors. Work with me. Don't call my efforts bullshit. They are in good faith and intended only to enlighten the reader. Bedankt...--Buster7 (talk) 20:05, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I am not a separtist.I am a protectionist. Please don't jump to conclusions. I want to protect my Flemish heritage from being annihilated. I dont live in Belgium so I have no interest or involvement in transfers. I don't speak Nederlanse. I speak "Stekense-Tromp", a Flemish dialect. I only found out recently that I wasn't speaking a language to my family and Belgian community here in America. Assume Good Faith. Belgians are world reknowned for Diplomacy. You should tone down your responses. They don't promote goodwill.--Buster7 (talk) 23:13, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Thank you so much for your reply. Truely...since you are Belgian, I knew you would understand. We are a great people. I will contain my "protect Flanders" stance. Goed gadaan, vriendt!!--Buster7 (talk) 12:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Hals (Dutch language)[edit]

I've been noting your contributions to Dutch related articles. Would like your opinion. The following Dutch article, without citations, does not agree totally with Van Dale's dictionary. Hals is given as the area on the front of the neck, though Van Dale mentions 'halswerwel', so that 'hals' would simply be neck. Dutch people have often given me the explanation as in the mentioned article, but where is the reference, and do you agree with the article? JMK (talk) 10:44, 15 September 2008 (UTC) Thanks for confirming! JMK (talk) 09:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Edit on French Flemish[edit]

Hello. May I ask why you said "specified" in your edit summary in this edit? It's rather the opposite. SPQRobin (talk) 15:45, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Vlaams kan wel verwijzen naar alle talen/dialecten gesproken in Vlaanderen. Maar ik heb geen zin om weer zo'n eindeloze discussie over een Vlaams-gerelateerd onderwerp te voeren. Wel vind ik het raar waarom ge overal "Flemish" vervangt door "Dutch", zelfs waar het passend is. Het is toch altijd beter om te specifiëren als dat mogelijk is? Bijvoorbeeld in dezelfde bewerking verandert ge "Flemish" door "Dutch" bij de afbeelding, maar daar kan het toch perfect gespecifieerd worden in "Flemish"? Ik vraag me trouwens af hoe het Vlaams kan gezien worden als dialect van het Nederlands, terwijl het Vlaams veel minder is geëvolueerd dan het Nederlands? Een dialect is toch iets dat is geëvolueerd en afgeweken van wat men oorspronkelijk sprak? Logisch gezien zou het Nederlands dus als dialect moeten gezien worden van het Vlaams (apart van de politieke geschiedenis). Ik snap deze onlogica alleszins niet echt, dus misschien weet gij hier een antwoord op? Verder ben ik ervan overtuigd dat Vlaams een aparte taal is (hier is een interessante site), maar dat had ge misschien al door :-) Vriendelijke groeten, SPQRobin (talk) 18:54, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Translation of F of B[edit]

How are things?

Given that Daveblack's activity on F of B, seems to have stagnated, it looks like we'll need someone new to translate. I think you could probably do a good job, and I could check for errors and smooth out the language a bit.

In other news, I'm really busy these days, as McGill works me ten times harder than ULB. Does the KUL have the same system as ULB, with every class having a 100% final exam? What about VUB? I'm curious.

I'm trying to use a tiny bit of my free time to learn some Dutch. No real guarantee that it'll get off the ground, but I'm having fun so far.

Cheers, Oreo Priest talk 01:36, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I noticed your edits here. You don't need to (and aren't supposed to) delete dead links. What you are supposed to do is date all material cited from the web, and someone using the Wayback Machine or some similar resource can verify that it supports the claim. Cheers, Oreo Priest talk 21:06, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Canada's fine, class ended today, and it's exams for the next couple weeks. Fortunately, in Canada the exams aren't worth 100%, and we have lots of small assignments throughout the year, so it's more reviewing material we know than learning material we don't.
As for F of B, do what you want with that reference. In future, you should date your web references when you add them. You could check in the revision history to see about when they were, or you could add a blanket date from roughly when they were. If you don't feel up to it, it's not a big deal, but there's no way it'll ever make FA without them. -Oreo Priest talk 21:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! I see Daveblack added another paragraph to F of B. In it, there's a table, but the table has no title (in any language). It should probably be something like "Languages in the Brussels-Capital Region" or something, but right now it's blank. Cheers, Oreo Priest talk 15:55, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Another problem with the version in all languages: "Thence, Dutch-speaking children were required to be educated in Dutch, while the same held true for French-speaking children." What held true? Education in Dutch or education in their native language? Cheers, Oreo Priest talk 01:04, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Best wishes to you too! Sorry to be stubborn, but I still don't understand (and I can't be alone). I think we should just put what language the French speaking children were educated in. Cheers, Oreo Priest talk 12:15, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Yo. The edit you just made screwed up the link, as you removed the URL. -Oreo Priest talk 15:21, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Good work updating the refs! It must have been exhausting. -Oreo Priest talk 13:50, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow. I'm in fact impressed at the scrutiny that fr's giving it. I'm also surprised that it's all constructive, and not just a bunch of Belgians claiming POV problems. There aren't any POV problems, but I assumed there'd still be complaints. Just so you know, en has much higher standards than fr. If we nominate it for FA, the article will be torn to shreds, with citation tags put in the most inconvenient places. It won't be easy, but the article will be the better for it. To nit-pick, you also said something "amap" on my talk page, which isn't a word. Just FYI. -Oreo Priest talk 01:49, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Cricket history[edit]

I suggest we discuss this at WT:CRIC. Leave it with me and I'll set something up but I'm afraid I must log off for now. Regards. ---BlackJack | talk page 08:19, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

economische bevoegdheden[edit]

Hi Hooiwind,

I wasn't quite sure how to translate "economische bevoegdheden". I just put "economic competencies" but that of course doesn't make any sense in English. Thanks!

--Daveblack (talk) 10:13, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

ʝ in Dutch[edit]

Hi, you entered ʝ in Dutch phonology. I think that sound does not occur. See my remark on the talk page, and please also fix up the mess you made from the notes relating to that table. H. (talk) 13:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

James Oliver Van de Velde[edit]

I am frustrated by your insistence that he spoke Dutch and not Flemish. Flemish is what the source materials say, Flemish is not the same as Dutch even according to Wikipedia, and his mentor specifically asked him to teach Flemish, not Dutch. There was tension between VdV's home region and Holland at the time. The Flemish-speaking seminarians he recruited to follow him to America were, in fact, fleeing for fear of Dutch persecution. I believe if VdV and his supervisors had meant Dutch, they would have said Dutch, and not specified Flemish. Modern linguists may not make this distinction, but Bishop VdV and his peers did, quite explicitly. I would like you to consider reverting your last edit, please. This article is meant to describe the life of James Oliver Van de Velde, not the current nomenclature of this branch of linguistics. Anyone interested in the Flemish language can look it up for its relationship to Dutch. Anyone interested in Bishop VdV needs to know he characterized the language he spoke and taught as Flemish. Thanks. :) -- LisaSmall T/C 01:41, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Hooiwind, thank you for your courteous response here. However, I cannot agree with your edit, which introduces a factual error. You state that "Flemish" had a religious and political context. Removing it from the article - an article about a religious figure who was fleeing the politics of his native land - removes that context. You are making a material change to insert a usage which is both anachronistic and wrong. This is not an article about linguistics. It is an article about a 19th-century Flemish priest who rose to be the second archbishop of Chicago. Your points are interesting, but belong in the article about Flemish or Flanders, not James Oliver Van de Velde. Furthermore, as I said above, all the resources used - proper, published resources under WP:Verify - say "Flemish" and not "Dutch." Your insertion of your own expertise violates Wikipedia's ban on original research. For it to be appropriate, you'd have to find not general sources on modern linguistics, but specific published sources about the life of Van de Velde which stated he spoke and taught Dutch. There are no such sources, because he didn't. So please, again, consider reverting your last edit. I understand your points, but this article is not the place to make them. I also sincerely appreciate your expertise, but again, see WP:OR. -- LisaSmall T/C 10:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Voiceles velar fricative[edit]

While the ability to access an article online is nice, the inability of a general reader to do so is not grounds for the removal of any statement or citation. Please do not remove cited information. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 17:27, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

F of B[edit]

Actually, I hadn't really translated any of F of B before; it was all Daveblack until now. Still, my contribution seems to have prompted him to start again, so we should be able to truck through this in not too much longer. I'm feeling full of piss and vinegar, so I'm ready to nominate this sucker for featured article after we're done. Of course, we'd have to go through the standard channels first, (Good article, peer review), and it'll take a lot of work checking sources and rephrasing ad nauseam. But I'm up for it, and I want to see this article on the main page. We can do it! -Oreo Priest talk 15:23, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, congrats on FA in fr! -Oreo Priest talk 15:27, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
¿Y los españoles? Ellos no tomen nada de este articulo. ¿Porque excluyes los españoles? -Oreo Priest talk 22:02, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
And before we nominate it for FA, it'll have to go through GA, which is much less stringent. Alternatively, we could just assess it as A (this seems uncontroversial), which may be a higher rank? I'm not entirely sure, and it seems to be pretty ambiguous. Also, once it's nominated for FA, you'll be pretty much the only one who can verify the Dutch references, and add new references where demanded. In any case, I'd be happy to help with whatever you need help with. Back to translation! -Oreo Priest talk 03:47, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
I think the article is more than ready for A (well, aside from the fact that it's not strictly speaking completed yet). And the thing to know about GA review is that the queue is extremely long. For example, covering of the Senne was nominated for GA on November 14, but didn't actually get reviewed until Christmas. For A-class, we could ask someone from Wikiproject Belgium to review it, but that project's pretty deserted. We could also just rank it A-class ourselves; It's already FA in two languages, so we know it's complete. Cheers, Oreo Priest talk 20:03, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
And we'll get lots of good feedback at WP:Peer review, so don't worry about that. Only one section left! Then we get to go through the monster task of properly formatting all the references, etc. -Oreo Priest talk 03:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Just a random comment: I've noticed by the way F of B is written, (and translated into French) it seems to me like Belgians see having street names in both official languages to be a natural consequence of bilingualism. My opinion, however, is that it's a terrible idea. To take one example, I could be given directions to Hogeschoollaan, Elsene, and wonder how on earth to get there as I pass by Avenue de l'Université, Ixelles, while never realizing they are actually the same street. And it's not some silly, unfair, unworkable solution. I live in Montreal, and I used to live at Rue University (sic) and Avenue du Parc, which suits everyone just fine. The important thing is that the street has only one name, so nobody gets confused, and getting directions isn't an exercise in translation. Even a solution like Rue University Street would be workable, but trying to figure out that Spoormakerstraat and Rue des Eperonniers is the same street is needlessly hard. -Oreo Priest talk 06:51, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

And we did it! I finally finished off the translation. Much remains to be done of course, but it's a pretty significant step, no? -Oreo Priest talk 08:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
So I listed it for peer review... Time to see how this works I guess? -Oreo Priest talk 05:18, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I've left comments in the text in a few places. Could you search through the text and address any that are there? A lot of them are just translation checking. One of them is about the 1910 census, which cites Wikipedia right now. You know of a better source, don't you? And I think you might have once said it was boycotted by Flemings or something, so if that's the case, you should mention that too.
A bit off topic: is there a such thing as a Dutch speaking Belgian (aside from a Dutch citizen) that doesn't identify as a Fleming? Or would most of the residents of Brussels call themselves Flemings? Cheers, -Oreo Priest talk 23:11, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


Hi, I was wondering if you could explain BHV to me. Don't worry! I get most of it already though. So are there two separate party lists, one for HV (or Flemish Brabant) and one for Brussels, or is it one district with one set of party lists? If there are two lists, what does Flemish Brabant have to lose by having some of its voters vote in a different region? Would they then get fewer seats in the Chamber and Brussels get more, or are the totals per district fixed? If there's just one, couldn't those presumably francophone voters vote for the same parties in Flemish Brabant, which wouldn't really change anything? Or are those sneaky Flemish politicians hoping that the francophone votes will be completely lost by the d'Hondt method? Or is it just the principle of the cross-boundary voting, regardless of the practical effect? Any light you could shed on this would be greatly appreciated. -Oreo Priest talk 03:39, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I seem to have opened quite the can of worms without realizing it. Great explanation, but I still don't understand certain parts. In the lower house, I don't understand how the seat distribution works if BHV is apparented with Leuven and Walloon Brabant, if they aren't apparented with each other. What is the actual algorithm for deciding who, from where, gets what seats? In fact, it seems like what I don't understand is how apparenting can work across separate electoral districts, especially when one of them is dual-list Brussels.
I could comment on how silly and unfair your system is, but I'm sure every Belgian already knows that. Instead, I'd like to mention that in Canada, we still use first past the post, so everybody gets disenfranchised. BHV could never occur, because almost nobody gets to vote in a district where their voice is heard to begin with. -Oreo Priest talk 23:27, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Ho-ho! If I look carefully, I think I just saw some POV come through from the otherwise unassailable Hooiwind! But of course, that's normal, it's your real life POV. Anyways, I'm not convinced that your reasons for saying BHV is unconstitutional make sense. You say that it's unconstitutional that Flemish Brabant isn't an electoral district; that's only the case if the constitution defines the districts as the provinces (which I doubt, since otherwise BHV would never have been set up in the first place). I'd like to know what else, if anything the court based their decision on, or alternatively, how BHV got set up like that if that is how it's defined. Maybe the constitution explicitly says that votes must be kept within a language area? But that would be an odd thing to specify.
And without understanding exactly how this apparenting works, it's hard to get a clear picture of the situation. The issue with BHV is that for the French (BHV+WB) and Flemish (BHV+L) lists, you can have two different d'Hondt quotients, and choosing how to allocate the seats in BHV between those two groups with different quotients, especially when WB and L have their own fixed number of seats, is not a trivial question. How were the votes allocated back when Brabant was a province? And why wouldn't that solution work now? -Oreo Priest talk 05:37, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Actually, no, your POV wasn't obvious before. Not unless you think that I should assume a certain POV because you're from FB.
And it seems like section B.8.4 may help solve our riddle of the Sphinx here. Du fait que le nombre de candidats élus dans les circonscriptions électorales de Bruxelles-Hal-Vilvorde et de Louvain ne dépend pas des chiffres de population respectifs de ces circonscriptions électorales, les électeurs et les candidats de deux des circonscriptions électorales du Royaume se voient privés, de manière discriminatoire, de la garantie offerte par l’article 63 de la Constitution. This says to me that they just blindly apply the d'Hondt method without actually making sure it respects the fixed number of seats in L. Which is of course completely unfair.
But what about the province of Brabant? How was it done back then? -Oreo Priest talk 13:49, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Peer review of F of B[edit]

You've been strangely inactive recently. All the action's now at Wikipedia:Peer review/Frenchification of Brussels/archive1, where there are a great number of constructive comments and questions. I'll soon have a batch for you too, so get ready. Cheers!- Oreo Priest talk 23:49, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget to comment at the RFC on F of B's talk page when you get the chance. Oreo Priest talk 23:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Good to see you again[edit]

Good to see you're back! First off, you should comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Belgium/Brussels naming conventions‎, where the discussion seems to have been suddenly revived. The articles you created look good.

I'm back in school now, it's my last year of undergrad, and it should be pretty hard, so I won't have nearly as much time to contribute as during the summer. During your absence, I started List of tallest buildings and structures in Belgium, and wrote a good deal of the articles that are there. We've successfully merged most of the relevant info from Walloon Region (now at Walloon Region (federal region)) into Wallonia and I'm working on cleaning it up as it's quite a mess. If possible, I'd like to eventually work out a similar solution for Flanders. I'm trying to improve Grand Place, which is much too short, I'm translating it mostly from French at User:Oreo Priest/safe if you'd like to take a look once in a while. I've asked a friend to comment on FofB, so once we have a few of those comments sorted out, we can hammer it into a featured article. It'll be a busy road ahead! Cheers, Oreo Priest talk 21:02, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Also, I nominated Peeters directive for DYK. It was well done, so I couldn't resist. Oreo Priest talk 23:43, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
A bigger issue (and one which must be amended promptly) is that it doesn't actually say what the Peeters Directive says to do, just the legal history and controversy. Could you maybe add a bit more about that? Oreo Priest talk 13:47, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
And fairly soon, because the DYK nom might expire? Oreo Priest talk 13:50, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Whoa! Slow down there! You've done a great job, but there are a bunch of other articles in worse shape that are (quite frankly) a lot more important. Economy of Belgium for example is a mess, and it's practically unreferenced. Aside from that, of course, there are plenty of other major articles which are either too short, a disaster, or completely nonexistent. Looks like I started rambling, but again, good article. Oreo Priest talk 13:15, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Also, I'm once again making an effort to learn Dutch. I might even translate a Dutch article into English at some point... Oreo Priest talk 13:22, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Hahahaha! Yeah, they're worse off without you. Still, I thing stuff like nl:Sint-Maartenskerk_(Ieper) is good enough; I didn't expect to be creating any featured articles. Cheers! Oreo Priest talk 15:23, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Brussels naming conventions[edit]

It seems we've almost reached a consensus at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Belgium/Brussels_naming_conventions. Please comment on the proposal for double names and in the poll on which name should be first in the lead and infobox when there is no English name. Cheers, Oreo Priest talk 19:55, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Peeters directive[edit]

Updated DYK query On September 26, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Peeters directive, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Cmadler (talk) 12:43, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


Hahaha! That's awesome! I actually live in Montreal now, but I did most of my growing up (9-19) in Toronto. I seem not to have mentioned it before, but I'm actually planning to go back to Brussels for a working holiday for a year starting next summer! (There's a girl involved.) That's actually where the renewed interest in Dutch has come from...

When are you planning on coming? I can't imagine how the Olympics would have anything but a beneficial effect on your ability to find work. Montreal is by no means a carbon copy of Brussels, and I think you'll find the differences quite pronounced. Having said that, the differences will be smaller than they are with other cities in Canada. If money and maximum cultural difference from Belgium are what you want, Calgary would probably be your best bet. It's on the prairies near some beautiful mountains, which are wild and natural in a way that's unmatched in Europe. I'm not super familiar with Vancouver, but be warned that its climate is pretty much exactly the same as Brussels. Toronto is in a sense like a scaled-down version of New York City; very big and international. If we do cross paths, it'd be fun to meet up, but I never imagined it'd be on this side of the Atlantic. I've enabled the email user feature if you'd ever want to use it.

Oh, and I censored your post on my talk page because I don't like to advertise where I'm from. No big deal, but I figured I should explain it. Don't censor yourself in future posts either. Cheers! Oreo Priest talk 22:29, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

No, I really did mean not to censor yourself; I can remove whatever I'm shy about myself. Oreo Priest talk 22:50, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
So I've redone the intro to F of B, but I'm not completely happy with it. Care to take a look? In any case, I think it's ready for the dreaded FA review, as soon as I (or better still, we) have enough time on my hands to deal with any issues that might come up. After working on this for so long, it's strange to think of it as mostly done.
And did you get my email? I haven't heard back from you. Cheers, Oreo Priest talk 03:09, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


Well said. Thank you.--Buster7 (talk) 19:55, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Help for an unofficial referee[edit]

Would it be possible you would have a glance at the page History of the Walloon Movement: I regret a participant remove verifiable informations of great Walloon scholars. I think it very impossible following the rules of Wp. But I feel that I am not able to avoid a war-edition. So I answer only that I am not happy with that. You have some competences in this kind of topics and I am confident you are able to help us to find a solution and to avoid a war-edition. I didn't remove myself what the other participant put on this page. Sincerely, José Fontaine (talk) 20:53, 13 February 2010 (UTC) [1] and other things

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Dutch Language[edit]

Did you read and corrected the article before removing the "weasel" tag.An example remaining in the article "The fact that Dutch did not undergo the sound changes may be the reason why some people say that Dutch is like a bridge between English and German.". Don't you think lines like this should be corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcaryan (talkcontribs) 10:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


I noticed that, great work! How long did it take you? Crazy to think that it's been nearly 5 years since we first put it together!

I've noticed that you still seem to be active. Grad school has managed to crush my enthusiasm and it's been quite a while since I've added any new content. Mostly I can only find the will to check my watchlist every few days to keep the vandals at bay. Keep it up, and I hope you're still enjoying where you live! Oreo Priest talk 23:06, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

File:Nlworld met ringen.PNG missing description details[edit]

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