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User talk:Huldra

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Haftom Zarhum

I never knew about the lynching of Zarhum until the AfD. After reviewing sources, I see this is treated as a separate event, highlighting the issue of racism. I will create an article on the incident in due time. Thanks for bringing it up at the discussion.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 21:43, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

User:TheGracefulSlick: well, as I said: There were some extremely ugly pictures surfacing (I think it was the Electronic Intifada that made a detailed analysis as to how many people beat him as he was lying on the floor, unmoving, bleeding to death.) I don't think we should have 2 articles about the event, but Beersheva bus station shooting should definitely be moved to Lynching of Haftom Zarhum (or something similar) (and then expanded). It is the deliberate lynching of an innocent man which is notable about the event, IMO, Huldra (talk) 21:58, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
In an encyclopedia where decisions were based on policies, not POV, that would be the move with the most popularity. The discussion, however, is not making me optimistic since Zarhum’s beating is being described as a “trivial” part of the shooting. We may just have to make due with another article.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 22:24, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
You are possibly correct. At least 9 passersby abused Zarhum (according to Haaretz) while he was dying, only 4 got (ridiculously lenient) "sentences". It is like the Deep South of the US, a hundred years ago, Huldra (talk) 22:32, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Terribly disturbing to watch; I even read the actual perpetrator resumed shooting at one point, and they still continued to beat him. Anyways, I will let you know when it is complete in case you want to add anything to it.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 00:20, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Note to self

Happy Holidays

Snow Covered Trees Starry Night (166032201).jpeg Best wishes for this holiday season! Thank you for your Wiki contributions in 2018. May 2019 be prosperous and joyful. --K.e.coffman (talk) 00:53, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Noël ~ καλά Χριστούγεννα ~ З Калядамі ~ Gott nytt år!

User:K.e.coffman thanks, and same to you! Huldra (talk) 21:53, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Copying within Wikipedia requires attribution

Hi. I see in a recent addition to Hunin you included material moved from Margaliot. That's okay, but you have to give attribution so that our readers are made aware that you moved the prose rather than wrote it yourself. I've added the attribution for this particular instance. Please make sure that you follow this licensing requirement when copying within Wikipedia in the future. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 17:08, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I noted it in the Margaliot article that I would move it to Hunin (link), then inadvertedly did not mention where it had been moved from in the Hunin article (link), Huldra (talk) 20:09, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

WP:ARBPIA violation

Please revert your latest edit to Lifta, which is a violation of WP:ARBPIA3. Debresser (talk) 22:30, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

As to your argument: the article is clear enough that the population was evacuated. Of course the decision to evacuate was because of the military situation. Debresser (talk) 22:31, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

User:Debresser AFAIK, there is no violation on my part. My latest edits to Lifta was more than 24 hours apart,
Also, discussion about Lifta should go on the talk page of that article, (for the benefit of other interested) Huldra (talk) 22:34, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
You might have informed me simply that WP:ARBPIA3 has been annulled here. Debresser (talk) 00:00, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, don't expect me to do your homework for you, (and I don't keep a list of where to link to) Huldra (talk) 00:06, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Huldra!

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Thanks! A Happy New Year to you, too! Huldra (talk) 22:44, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

AN discussion

Hi. I’m interested in your comment here. Could you explain which of the edits offered as evidence are not problematic, and why? In the alternative, would you be willing to mentor this user and help them avoid further trouble. You seem to be a competent editor with long experience. I appreciate your efforts to improve articles in a hotly contested area. Jehochman Talk 03:14, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

User:Jehochman, I do not know the truth about the White Helmets; perhaps they are heroes, perhaps they are villains, perhaps they are a mix of both. But I do believe that “truth” is the first casualty of virtually any war, especially in the Middle East. Therefor we should proceed with great caution, and never bombastically conclude that one side is right...before we have all the evidence.
I remember vividly listening to Nayirah testimony back in 1990 (yeah, I’m that old!!) ......not believing a single word of it, even when President Bush repeated it (ordinary nurses in the Middle East simply did not speak English that fluently back then, as anyone with any knowledge of the area knew: there had to be more to the story than what was published. Which indeed it was.)
And the Nayirah story was peanuts compared to the lies we were told during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. If you only read/listen to US news, then you will miss much. I recall after Colin Powell's presentation to the UN, some local papers in Europe said straight out that what he was saying wasn't true, while every single US paper (which I saw) were gushing over about how convincing he had been. And remember the Niger uranium forgeries? Where they used the name of a Niger minister ...who hadn't been in office for 10 years? Lol, still president Bush used it...
These last 30 years have showed us that our Western Government lie, lie, and lie again about the Middle East (link) (and before you accuse me of being Kremlin stooge, or "married to an Arab", or a "Palestinian Muslim", as other editors here have......I'm born and raised, and still live in a NATO country, coming from pure WASP background. It was because I was totally misinformed about the Middle East when I grew up (virtually nothing of what I was taught turned out to be true) ...that I now add to the history of the Middle East.)
To return to the White Helmets: we have virtually no independent coverage of areas where they operated. To quote Peter Hitchens:
"The FO is in a mess over this. It has for years been backing the Islamist rebels against the Syrian government, a policy which involves supporting exactly the sort of people we would arrest if we found them in Birmingham.
Perhaps that is why it claims the ‘White Helmets’ are ‘volunteers’ (they are often paid) and that they have ‘saved over 115,000 lives during the Syrian conflict’ and done ‘brave and selfless work’ to ‘save Syrians on all sides of the conflict.’
When I asked them to provide independent, checkable evidence for these assertions, they came up empty after three days of searching.
This is not surprising, as the ‘White Helmets’ generally operate only in areas controlled by unlovely bodies such as the Al-Nusra Front, until recently an affiliate of Al Qaeda, and the equally charming Jaish al-Islam (Army of Islam), famous for putting captured Syrian Army soldiers in cages and using them as human shields.
Independent Western observers, whether they are diplomats or journalists, can’t really go to these zones, because they are quite likely to end up very dead and probably headless." (in Are we saving Syrian 'heroes'... or just importing more fanatics?, 29 July 2018),
So frankly, I don't find Kiwicherryblossom inserting "alleged" into, say Douma chemical attack inappropriate...when the OPCW has not yet finally concluded that there ever was a chemical attack (all the other sources used are of the same quality that "proved" to the world that Saddam Hussein had WMD in 2003...).
Frankly, I think the Syrian War articles are the worst shit-hole on Wikipedia (to use Trumph's language). Articles like Eva Bartlett, White Helmets, all the "chemical attacks" articles (where there is no independent confirmation that it ever even was a chemical attacks) are all totally one sided....anyone who has tried to better the situation over the last year or two have gotten topic banned. There is a varied group of people (I recognise some from the old Eastern European Mailing List love lost for the Russians there) who have had iron control over these articles for years. IOW: I think the wrong person got topic banned (yet again). I try not to get involved (Would you like to dive into a shit-hole? Nah, me neither), Huldra (talk) 22:14, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
My earliest political memories are Watergate and Vietnam. I’ve been around long enough to witness all kinds of official lying. They say news is the rough draft of history. We’re always going to have difficulty covering contentious current events. One strategy is to push for good or featured article status. That can bring in some neutral, quality conscious editors. Jehochman Talk 00:19, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Well, my first demo (when I was about 18, or 19) was against the Vietnam war ("USA out of Vietnam!"); I first got interested in the Middle East politics in the 1980s.
The problem with the Syrian articles, as I said, are an assorted group who "owns" them. They have been very, very good at getting topic banned any editor who doesn't agree with them. I tried to get Robert Fisk into an article (see Talk:Douma_chemical_attack/Archive_4)...but since editors who close RfC do look at numbers, Fisk was excluded(!). (My RL friends lost the last bit of respect for WP over that one, when I told them.) Pushing for good or featured article status under such circumstances is totally futile, IMO. (If you want to "survive" in hotly contested areas on wp, you need to know which "edit wars" to walk away from.)
I don't know why it is like this, if it is plain stupidity ("Our government is right!"), or other more nefarious reasons. (But we do know that, say, the British have spend a lot of money on so-called info wars)
Kiwicherryblossom (KCB) is a case in point, they makes a robust defence for using "alleged" here...if anything, those who reverted KCB should have been topic banned. Until that happens, these article will remain the "shit-hole of Wikipedia", Huldra (talk) 22:59, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Numerous articles in RS talk about the douma chemical attack [1]. The introduction says there is an interim report, and one waits. There are other reports, such as the look at the 'incident' in the New York Times, so it isn't like nothing can be written until the OPCW speak again. The introduction is not , censored, misleads not at all. You see a shit hole but perhaps thats in the eye of the beholder. Dan the Plumber (talk) 23:44, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
The "Numerous articles in RS" typically come from the very same sources who produced "Numerous articles in RS" "proving" that Saddam Hussein had WMDs, tried to buy uranium from Niger, etc, etc.
Been there, seen that. Huldra (talk) 23:50, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
If you've been there , seen that, you must be wary of propaganda, in the widest sense then. Great. WMD , yes, and Katyn Massacre, yes , that too. Propagandists everywhere. Dan the Plumber (talk) 23:55, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
I don't know a thing about the Katyn Massacre (never said I did), (or much about Eastern Europe, in general). (But yeah, I have been to Syria,) Huldra (talk) 00:01, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
OPCW have been to Syria too. They found sarin with regime signature. To just scream 'But IRAQ Iraq WMD WMd' every time the Assad-Putin regime are caught using CW seems pretty hopeless. You are really on a fringe that wants to implicate the OPCW, and the vast mass of evidence against the Assad regime as all part of a huge conspiracy or something. Its hopeless arguing with true believers though. You support your side whatever. I get itDan the Plumber (talk) 16:52, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Huh???? It is precisely because I am not a "true believer" about just about anything, that I would want articles to keeps possibilities open. You don't. I get it.
There is also evidence supporting Assads claims, but all such evidence (say, Robert Fisk) has conveniently been found not WP:RS.
And OPCW never found sarin, at least not at the Douma chemical attack. They found various chlorinate chemicals, (which they would also have found beneath my kitchen sink). Huldra (talk) 22:06, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
The regime however has been found to have used sarin. Which you wouldn't find beneath your kitchen sink. So what you find at your house , and what the Assad regime uses against civilians, are not the same thing whatever your sarcastic rhetoric is meant to convey. I know they found sarin was not used at Douma. The article says that. If Fisk has hard evidence that supports Assad regime narrative at Douma , well you should certainly fight for the inclusion of that information at the article. I really doubt Fisk had any such thing, but fight for that in the article. If he has hard evidence that supports Assad regime denials of their doing anything nefarious at Douma that should be in the article. After the regime is in control of Douma Fisk says 'my earnest questions about gas were met with what seemed genuine perplexity.' Huh????( I think he is a fucking cretin. He doesn't think maybe they are afraid to talk? If his story about the doctor saying they all died of hypoxia isn't anywhere in the article thats maybe an omission. His story is part of the story of the way the attack was reported at least. I think his reflex is always to absolve the regime , I believe he knee jerk decided they didn't use sarin at Ghouta etc? He's obviously got his admirers, including your anonymous journalistic mate one gathers. Well, there we are. (Says he talked to a doctor with a story about how they died who by 'his own admission wasn't an eyewitness'. Seems legit. Fight for this essential information to be included. (You'd mock an article that presented this level of 'evidence' if it were presented by a journalist to push a story that implicate the regime. Be fair, you'd take a story like to the fucking cleaners if the wrong side presented such a story. Instead you call it massively important. Huh??? I'll leave your talk page alone now. We just very different sorts of editors and humans. ) Dan the Plumber (talk) 23:08, 10 January 2019 (UTC)


  • Please link to where it has been proven that the Syrian regime has used Sarin. (That might be true, I frankly do not know). However, what remains is that OPCW did not find any traces of Sarin at the Douma chemical attack site. What also remains is that US officials used the use of "chemical attack" as an excuse for the 2018 missile strikes against Syria....even though (so far) no proof of any such chemical attack exist.
  • As for censorship: an unemployed ex–finance guy named Eliot Higgins is found to be a WP:RS everywhere on wp...while Robert Fisk is not. LOL! And I did fight to include Fisk's visit to Douma (See Talk:Douma_chemical_attack/Archive_4) ..and lost. Fisk talked to about 20 people (including 1 doctor), without "minders', while Seth Doane spoke to far fewer (AFAIK), still Seth Doane (and Eliot Higgins) are considered RS for the Douma chemical attack article, while Fisk is not. This is censorship, pure and simple, and one reason why this article (and virtually all the rest of the Syrian war articles) really, truly are the "shit-hole of Wikipedia." Huldra (talk) 23:48, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
i don't know but , if you're right about this, how it regards Higgins work as against Fisk, it makes me feel like maybe wikipedia isn't so bad. Dan the Plumber (talk) 23:51, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
Sigh, "You can lead a horse to the water, but you cannot make it drink", Huldra (talk) 23:58, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
OPCW on evidence found at Khan Sheikhoun, you know material evidence, (not some vile hack talking to 20 people in a regime controlled area where saying the wrong thing can lead to torture and death [2] etc like Fisk does)

OPCW FFM : “The samples from Khan Shaykhun contain the three types of marker chemicals described above: PF6 [HFP], isopropyl phosphates and isopropyl phosphorofluoridates. Their presence is a strong indicator that the sarin disseminated in Khan Shaykhun was produced from DF from the Syrian Arab Republic stockpile.” Sigh , you're a true believer and you'll just keep denigrating people like Higgins, who look at evidence, and whose work has proven itself over time to be consistent with OPCW findings, and you'll venerate Fisk who conducts interviews with citizens in regime hands having been escorted into the area by his masters. Same at Ghouta, OPCW found the sarin came from the Syrian regime stockpile. You are a conspiracist. The shithole is in your eyes. Dan the Plumber (talk) 16:03, 12 January 2019 (UTC) ───────────────────────── I haven't editing the Khan Shaykhun article, but LOL: do you honestly think people had freedom under Jaysh al-Islam???? (They were the ones who were in control over Douma, at the time of the Douma chemical attack). If I had lived in one of their controlled areas, I would probably have ended up one head shorter. Literally. (Being female, and a feminist.) As to your assertion that Fisk only talked to people under government control.....well, so did Seth Doane, so why is one considered RS, while the other not? It is this double standard which makes the article a shit−hole. (And I would be grateful if you stopped personalising the discussion all the time), Huldra (talk) 23:36, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

i thought the point at issue was whether the OPCW had implicated the regime in chemical weapons attacks , and then you write 'do you think people had freedom under Jaysh al islam'. What the fuck has that to do with whether the regime carried out sarin attacks and the OPCW found evidence, you know hard , chemistry, physics, type evidence, that the regime carried out the attacks. Typical 'divert, dismay, distract' response. Pointless discussing anything with true believers. If you're a feminist the fate of the woman here should concern you.[3] 'Rehab Allawi... The girl from the city Mouhassan in the Deir ez-Zor countryside, was arrested on January 16, 2013. She was a civil activist working in relief, and was a third year civil engineering student at the University of Damascus. "They charged her a fabricated charge of kidnapping an officer, in addition to the financing of terrorist groups. She was transferred to a court martial. On her last day in the cell, Rehab dreamt of wearing a white bridal dress; which increased her hope of obtaining freedom. However, she was called at midnight; which is strange for a woman to be called for interrogation at such a time inside [Security] Branch 215."

Rehab Mohammed Alawi... Killed by the Syrian regime under torture in its prisons.'

It isn't only Jaish al islam who murder women and children. You know the regime and Russia and Iran have killed far , far, far more civilians than Nusra , IS, etc. Two wrongs don't make a right, but if killing women is your measure, Assadists win by a fucking country mile. Dan the Plumber (talk) 18:22, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Two things:
  • first, the OPCW has found no evidence of a chemical attack at Douma..and wp uses a double standard evaluating sources, accepting those sources which support the "official" Western perspective (like Seth Doane), while dismissing those who dont (like Robert Fisk), even when the information was collected under the same circumstances.
  • secondly, I have no illusions about the Assad regime (read, say, Aref Dalila), but there is a HUGE difference between the Assad regime and Jaysh al-Islam: the Assad regime would target you for what you have done (or what they think you have done), Jaysh al-Islam would target you for who you are.

...And I have lived under Assad! Lol, just for a month, and as a tourist some 15−20 years ago, but I felt perfectly safe...visiting Palmyra, Krak des Chevaliers, Apamea, etc, etc. ....But I would not survive a single day under Jaysh al-Islam (A secular, non−Muslim female, who refuse to cover her hair? No way.) ...I have followed various blogs, and twitter users for this last 15−20 years in the Middle East, and what amazes me is the strong support Assad (and Hizbollah!) have gotten these last 5−10 years from the Christians in the area. Read what Nassim Nicholas Taleb (a Christian from Lebanon) writes here: "The Syrian War Condensed: A more Rigorous Way to Look at the Conflict" Or read this: Meeting Middle East Christians is where Western stereotypes go to die...where local Christians claim that 100percent of the Syrian Christians would vote for Assad, if there were free and fair elections in Syria.

That Christian in the Middle East support Assad is one thing which simply isn't reported in the West at all. ('Support' is perhaps a bit strong, but like Taleb: they much prefer Assad to the alternative). Doesn't that make you think? Huldra (talk) 23:57, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

This is all travelling a long way out from the fact that you refuse to accept evidence that Assad regime used sarin against civilians as they slept at Ghouta, and have been found to have used it at Khan Sheikhoun and CW multiple times. Douma , there is an interim report, and anyone reading the wp article will not be made to think there was a sarin attack there. It just fucking does not say that. meanwhile multiple RS talk of a chemical attack. You might think your cuddly secular ever so tolerant to bourgeois tourist would never use CW, but RS and much evidence, says otherwise. Taleb is a notorious propagandist for Assad and from what Ive seen of him on twitter an out and out crank. Whether Christians ( and their putative founder was into loving ones enemy, turning the other cheek etc , so you know, how 'Christian ' are the Christians), feel happy to turn blind eyes about CW is for them to decide. You are demonising a whole section of Syrian citizenry as 'head choppers' and exonerating amass murderer , whose regimes rule has been enforced by the ever so tolerant Iranian IRGC, ( you think as a woman you'd have an easy time in Iran), and the Putin regime. Millions are in exile. Millions. They are all head choppers and have had the wrong thoughts? At this moment 'Syria’s football team is currently playing Australia’s in the #AsianCup2019. Missing from the pitch are 15 footballers the Assad regime has murdered for defying it and seven players it is holding in detention.' You and I will have to agree to differ. If you and your 'ideas' and your pov take control of all Syria related articles then indeed, imho, it would be a shithole of all shitholes. Dan the Plumber (talk) 18:34, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
The fact remains that the US bombed Syria, after claiming that Douma chemical attack was a chemical attack, something for which they had exactly 0 proof.
As for Nassim Nicholas Taleb not being representative: I am not so sure. I have followed Middle East sources (blogs, twitter) for 15−20 years now, and what absolutely amazes me, is the increase in support these last 5−10 years for Assad and Hizbollah among Christians. (Take a look at youtube for some of the live performances of Julia Boutros: some have English subtitles for her praise of Hizbollah). Especially after they retook Maaloula (FYI: Maaloula has a very special place in Christianity in the Middle East, with monasteries dating back 1500 years. They were NOT well treated, when they were under rebel command.) But the Christian support for Assad/Hizbollah is something which simply isn't reported in the West. (Did you read this article, at all?)
Personally, I don't think we are dealing with one white, and one black side in this war. More like various degrees of blackness. But I refuse to support a side which would gladly cut of my head. And I suspect yours, too. I suspect that if we two would live under, say Jaysh al-Islam, we would end up as Raed Fares, Samira Khalil, Razan Zaitouneh, and many, many others: all dead or missing (presumes dead), from Western backed rebel territory, Huldra (talk) 23:44, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

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