User talk:Indon/Archive3

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Talk Archived[edit]

Indon (reply) — 13:51, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Failed GA nomination for Homophony[edit]

I noticed that you recently failed the article Homophony for WP:GA status because you believed it to be unsourced. I left a note on the talk page, and I would appreciate it if you would take a look. Thanks. -- Cielomobile minor7♭5 05:08, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. As for the Derek and the Dominos article, I have left notes on the talk page asking the contributors to provide the fair use rationale. Thank you for pointing this out; it seems to be the one thing I miss. -- Cielomobile minor7♭5 17:56, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, you wrote that the article doesn't meet GA standards in other areas, would you mind commenting on how? No one seems to want to even put the article on hold, perhaps because it is about music theory. I left another note on the talk page. -- Cielomobile minor7♭5 02:41, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Please Check Talk:Mount Tambora[edit]

re source of that long quote. thanks --Merbabu 14:48, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Whites in Zimbabwe[edit]

Indon. About three weeks ago you were kind enough to review the GA nomination of this article. Your comments were appreciated and I have attempted to address the specific points you raised. Bear in mind that the article is about "whites", it is not intended to be an article on communal relations in Zimbabwe. As regards this "... controversial plan from Mugabe to evict whites from Zimbabwe." - I have never heard of it. But I may have missed something obvious.

If you have a few minutes, perhaps you would take another look over the article and let me have your further comments?. You can reply either here or on the article's discussion page. regards. Bob BScar23625 20:42, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I briefly looked the article and it has improved a lot. I'll take a depth look again later and perhaps I'll help with some copyedits, only for technical issues. And about Mugabe, ... that crossed my mind when I reviewed it, but I've to check again. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 11:06, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

The Quran and science[edit]

Would you mind weighing in on The Quran and science? I renominated it for deletion. If we're going to keep it it needs to be erased and started again. Arrow740 00:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Using info from Wikipedia-ID[edit]

A question has been raised on wether we can use info from the Indonesian wikiepedia. See:[1] Do you know??? --Merbabu 02:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

New Lead to Indonesia[edit]

Freeeshboy is proposing a new intro to the Indonesia article. I think it is excellent and think we should use it - it needs a few modifications. have a look [2]and comment at [3]. thanks. nice work on Tambora! (Imoeng has a new Indonesian Project barnstar - its name will be revealed shortly - but the runner up name choice was "Barnstar Tambora") --Merbabu 13:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Hahaha, I'll give the "Barnstar Tambora" to someone who gave a very long quotes without any source. :D. — Indon (reply) — 13:34, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

bandung ocean of flame[edit]

Hi Indon, got your note. Sure I'd be happy to to take a stab on it (can't promise when). any materials you have that I can use as a starting point would be greatWongjerang

Hey there![edit]

moved to userpageIndon (reply) — 04:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Good job Indon! Cheers -- Imoeng 14:34, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Btw, if the image is too large, put 120px in the link :P Cheers -- Imoeng 14:34, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
The barnstar isn't really good is it? I am fine, though I'm pretty stressed now after my editor review. I am currently expanding religion in Indo and Fauna of Indo. Also I have just put Religion in Indonesia to WP:PR. You've done a great job with Tambora! Cheers -- Imoeng 14:54, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh sorry I haven't seen it, I am going to answer it now. But the last two questions above you are pretty stressing :P. Okay, talk to you later! Happy editing. Cheers -- Imoeng 15:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey, when I read your question over and over again, I realised the true message was, my citations are not good enough. Is that true? Cheers -- Imoeng 16:54, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah actually I am pretty stressed now :P. Oh could you come to Talk:Overthrow of Sukarno? Its about GA delisting, that a guy said the article lacks images. Oh well, please share your thoughts. Merbabu is mad now, :P. Cheers -- Imoeng 06:14, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Hello, thank you for the Indonesian PD template! Meursault2004 16:45, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair use image on dolphin drive hunting article[edit]

I fixed the photo with an obsolete tag but I do not understand which image you believe has no fair use rationale. Of the other photos, one is a video screencap which qualifies as fair use, the other two are uploaded by the author Erik Christensen to commons. BabyNuke 10:40, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Torajan photos[edit]

Hi Indon how are you? I saw the to-do on Toraja and probably I'll help with some images. Currently I am waiting for a reply from the webmaster of a website about Toraja. So, just wish me luck! :P Cheers -- Imoeng 10:41, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah!! I got it!! We got it!! We can use any image from Cheers -- Imoeng 11:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Thats alright. I am not sure though which picture to choose, since there are sooo many of them. I also want this article become a featured article :D Cheers -- Imoeng 13:11, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey sorry for the late reply, I didn't notice it. Actually I believe the article has reached A class, so its just need a bit more to reach FA. Maybe after we add languages,dance,music,food,etc, we can put it at WP:PR once more. If we get a good response, then we can nominate it for FA. How about that?

Yeah it would be great if she is joining. Actually the German webmaster that I contacted was kinda interested to join the editing. Hopefully he'll turn up. Really, can you make an MSN account? :P So its easier to communicate. Oh and I will check the FA failure to improve the quality. I will also add language section to the article if you don't mind. Cheers -- Imoeng 10:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
/// WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY TURN UP - JUST CONTACT ME at ///—Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)
Oh you are at work, aren't you? Okay, just keep in touch :D Cheers -- Imoeng 10:28, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Based on my quick research, most websites mentioned about two different languages (though they are all from Toraja), which are Sad'an and Tae' Is it the same information with yours? Cheers -- Imoeng 11:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
/// and also Bare'e, a differentiation by Dutch missionaries which is no longer relevant; their "Toraja" was far bigger than Tana Toraja today, which is now the area along the Sa'dan River where people speak the "Sa'dan (not Sad'an) Toraja" variety (provided that they can still speak the language)./// —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

LOL - Who are you mate? If you are that smart, please make an account and help edit the article with us. Cheers -- Imoeng 17:36, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


Hi Indon. Fine work there on Toraja. As for the grammar, actually, although I am sure that "the Toraja are an ethnic group" is correct, possibly my explantion (ie, plural) is incorrect! lol. I mean, I am sure I am correct, just not sure on my explanation. As for your example of Malay, isn't the Malays (are) = the Javanese (are) = the Toraja (are) even though toraja has no s. As i said, i am not sure about the explanation (I will research it a bit more soon), pokoknya, we should use are not is in that sentence. It wouldn't be that important except it is the first sentence of a fine article :-) --Merbabu 04:49, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

PS, Alternatively, we could just say the the Torajans are similar to the Indonesians are and the Australians are. But as i said, i need to do a little research to fully understand - hopefully tonight. --Merbabu 05:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

How about if I change the lead into: "The Toraja is an ethnic group name, indigenous to ...."? Thus it is a name, then it should be singular. And about name, adjective and the place, I think I have the solution. From literatures that I read for the article, I found that there is no consensus for the adjective of Toraja. Some say Toraja (pl: Torajas), others say Torajan (pl: Torajans). However, most of the literature uses Torajan as the adjective. Therefore I think for the name = Toraja, adjective = Torajan (pl: Torajans), place = Tana Toraja. How about that? If you agree, then I will make a note in the article's talk page, so that other contributors would not be confused with these naming. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 08:09, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

For me, the issue is not whether it is called the Toraja or Torajans, rather the issue is simply the use of is. That is incorrect to the best of my knowledge. Can you think of another ethnic group where one says the xxxxxxx is...? I can't. Examples, "the Malays are, the Inuit are, the Yolngu are, and the English are. --Merbabu 09:31, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
You got the point. After I read again the sources, some say with Toraja and some with Torajans. And the rest of the text, I wrote it as Torajans, but it's not so important. I'll put a note in the lead.
/// they themselves say "Torajanese" when speaking English. Recommend to follow the writings of anthropologists such as Kathleen Adams ///—Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)
Nope. I've read Adams' papers, and she says Toraja, cmiiw. However, as I said, there's no definite adjective name for Toraja people. — Indon (reply) — 00:26, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi all. I am, as you suspected, the Kathleen Adams you mention above. I'll add that I started off as a graduate student using the term "Torajans" as some prior Europeans studying this area had done. However, I shifted to "Torajas" or "Toraja people" in the 1990s, as I felt these were closer to the spirit of the name in Indonesian. Scholars in anthropology use both terms, though, so you needn't worry about being which term you use. You are all doing a great job on your Toraja entry! Good luck achieving your goal of becoming a top web site. I will keep this brief as I am still learning how to make entries here. I will try and add a couple more bibliographic entries when I have time--there is a great new book out on Toraja history by Terence Bigalke, in particular. Back to grading midterms...All the best, Kathleen/// User:kmadams

Hi again. I added a bit more and made some suggestions in the "to do" list. I'm afraid I didn't have time to go over the entire article, just portions. You have all done an impressive amount of work!Kmadams 20:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


Hello Indon, how are you? Hey you are a GA reviewer, aren't you? Umm, I know this is a bit strange, but could you review (not nominate, of course) Indonesia? And if possible, tell us the chance to get a GA status. Thanks very much -- Imoeng 11:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

WOw, what a review!! That is absolutely amazing, seriously, although the outcome is not what I had expected :P. Okay, I will post this in the news section and bring more editors to the article. Thanks very much! -- Imoeng 08:35, 19 October 2006 (UTC) (oh, please improve it too, as you probably know the major weakness)
Well, I just thought the guys at FAC would weigh the article based on it's status as well. So GA status would boost it :D. But yeah, one more PR should do as well. Cheers -- Imoeng 09:55, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

GA Nomination for World War II Online[edit]

Read your review on the talk page, you bring up a fair point. References are a bit important, aren't they? But there is a problem with this particular case. The vast majority of the information in the article comes from material posted on the game's official forums, which require a paid subscription to view. Much of the rest of the material posted comes from newsletters sent to paid subscribers to the game. This makes citing sources very difficult. How do you suggest we tackle this issue? Thanks. (USMA2010 04:03, 19 October 2006 (UTC))

Editor review[edit]

LOL! I just saw your review, thanks for it. It is quite funny actually, especialy the WP:TC thing, HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (sorry I couldn't resist this). Again, thanks. Probably I won't be here until Saturday, cause yesterday I didn't sleep at all (Wiki and UEFA Championship, and assignments). So see ya soon. Cheers -- Imoeng 11:09, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Copyright tag[edit]

Hi how are you? I just saw your message about the copyright templates and I've checked it. I reckon you should include the time limit of being "old". I couldn't find it on the website (too many words, duh!), hehehe. Thanks very much -- Imoeng 13:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC) (oh btw, when I checked the edit counter, my edit to your talk page is the highest, more than 120!!)

Oh sorry I didn't realise it. I wanted to put these templates as well, long time ago, but as I said before, I have a disorder called TMWD (too many words disorder) :P. Great job of finding it. Cheers -- Imoeng 13:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Your (practice) GA review[edit]

Hey, i didn't mean to be rude. I was typing quick sure, and there were some things i didn't agree with. But much of your review was straightforward - which is fine - but i thought i just matched its style. I am sure you agree it is better we are honest, right? No offence intended. I think you make many good points, and the easy ones, i changed already. Seriously, it is my belief that out of all the Indonesia-related editors, a few people MAYBE match you, but none are better. Sorry. --Merbabu 15:07, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

That's all right. I didn't get offended. Just to clarify a bit. Don't worry, I know your style. :-) You didn't mean to make an attack, but I was just worried that others might see it that way. Honestly, you are a good editor and really easy to write compelling prose. Basically, I agree some of your responses. It was just a virtual review, after I've been with GA for a while. Imoeng thought that it might be helpful for him to know what is the position of the article based on GA criteria. Hey, have a nice weekend. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 15:14, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
OK, regarding other's opinion, i will add to it to clarify "no offence" intended. --Merbabu 15:17, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Ummmm, hehehe, ummm, sorry for trolling. Umm, is anything alright here? :P Regarding Merbabu's last message, I have understood that "no offence intended". :P Cheers -- Imoeng 17:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Failed GA nomination for Chris Kempling[edit]

When you noted that it was not written in from a neutral point of view, did you feel it was slanted in favour or against Mr. Kempling? Deet 00:26, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Religion in Indonesia[edit]

Hey how are you? I was just wondering, do you think that article is ready for GA? Of course after I put one more citation. Cheers -- Imoeng 07:57, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that, but can you really edit the picture?? I reckon you will need some permissions and stuff. Cheers -- Imoeng 12:08, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Wow that is too cool, will you teach me sometimes? :P Btw what time is it there? I never know your time. Cheers -- Imoeng 12:14, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Cool, maybe tomorrow I'll download it. Oh no, maybe Monday. Hey sorry for not editing Indonesia-related articles today, lama-lama bosen juga, hahahah. But tomorrow probably I'll edit more on those. Cheers -- Imoeng 12:26, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Jamby Madrigal[edit]

Hey there Indon! I would like to ask for your reconsideration of my Jamby Madrigal article. I hope you would respond to my request... Best wishes!!! Kevin Ray 14:41, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


Hi Indon how are you? Because tonight I won't be here (until tomorrow), I just want to Lebaran-ing, hehehe. Forgive all my faults which I have done intentionally or intentionally (its different in English, isn't it?) Ahahahaha. Okay, selamat lebaran!! Cheers -- Imoeng 05:10, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

External links[edit]


Thought you should know that urls of the form are not actually search results; the link points to a specific encyclopedia entry.

That said, I don't have any strong opinion on the inclusion of these links, so I haven't restored them. Cheers, -- Visviva 11:30, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Not every URL that contains the word "result" is actually a search results page. Since I *can* read Korean, I can verify that these are in fact distinct encyclopedia articles, not search results. I can also verify that these articles provide information that is not readily available in English, which makes them acceptable on the English Wikipedia per the MoS. It also means that the article can be used as an aid for the expansion and verification of the article (note that tertiary sources are acceptable -- though not preferred -- under WP:RS). For links of this nature, it would really be advisable to ask for the guidance of editors who can read the language and are familiar with the area concerned. Cheers, -- Visviva 13:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Hari Raya[edit]

Selamat Hari Raya, Indon. --Merbabu 13:10, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Ah, makasih, Merbabu ;-). — Indon (reply) — 13:11, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


Lol you're right! I fixed the article. Keep up the great work :) Glen 13:40, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject Indonesia Newsletter[edit]

WP Indonesia banner.jpg
WikiProject Indonesia has grown incredibly! Two months ago, when the project was created, there were only two members, but now, we have got over 20 members, and hopefully it will keep increasing. Because of this large number, now WikiProject Indonesia has it's own newsletter, which will be delivered every week on Monday morning, around 22:00 (UTC). If you have any idea and suggestions, please do not hesitate to contribute to the next newsletters. We also need to find a better banner for the newsletter, so just post it on project's talk page. With your help, we can reach the even the impossible goal!
"Bersatu kita teguh, bercerai kita runtuh"
What's new?
Several ways to increase the interactions between editors have been proposed. For now, the best solution would be the IRC Channel just for WikiProject Indonesia. Please go to #wikipedia-id if you have had experiences with IRC Channels. Or read the instructions at Wikipedia:IRC.

Three new barnstar design have been proposed! If you find a great editor with excellent contributions to Indonesia-related articles, give him/her a barnstar, or maybe two or three! See the barnstars at Wikiproject Indonesia Barnstars.

Articles improvements
The previous two weeks were maybe the best and tiring week for some of us. On the good side, we have got a new Good Article, which is Toraja. Congratulations for all editors who have involved in the expansion. Yet we have failed to get two Good Article status, which are Tourism in Indonesia and Indonesia. However with the spirit of 1945 we will always accomplish many things!

Starting this week (October 17), the collaboration durations have been extended, so now we can collaborate to improve a particular article for two weeks straight. Please leave any recommendations or suggestions on the collaboration talk page.

Many thanks to MartinBotII, a state-of-the-art Martinp23's bot for delivering the newsletter

wa 'iyaaki Indon[edit]

جزاك الله, thank you for your wonderful greeting, i hope you too have a prosperous and joyful 'eid, and i wish you the best of success in the future, و السلام عليكم (that dish looks lovely by the way!). ITAQALLAH 19:28, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks so much Indon for the greeing. Happy Eid to you too. I also would like to wish the best of success for you in the future. --Aminz 02:04, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Salaam! Eid Mubarak to you too. May God bless all of us with more blessings. TruthSpreaderTalk 12:53, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


Assalamu'alaikum Indon, Eid mubarak! May I ask you to forgive all my faults. Again, I wish you a great Lebaran! Cheers -- Imoeng 03:58, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

sorry to copy this template!! ;P Imoeng 04:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


Hi Indon, please read the discussion under Peacock in ITB that I just created before you made any edits to ITB. No I am not interested in creating any advertisement. I still believe that the wordings are still appropriate under Peackock guideline. Wongjerang

I don't think adding those words make the article a soap box. You can find in the WP:Peacock guidelines some instances where they are appropriate. Again, happy to discuss it further, with you and or others. Cheers, Wongjerang

Well I am not convinced that you can always qualify something as a Peacock merely because of the existence of those superlative words either. Those words add value in this case. Indon, you are always welcome if you can come up with better wording or terms. The last edit you made clearly cut out one of the important essence of ITB. I was not the one who originally put the terms such as "brightest" and "most prestigious" in the first place, but found them appropriate if they are put in proper contexts and references, hence my edits. Now you may as well take out the whole phrase of "....with the annual supply of Indonesia's students" because that does not mean anything anymore. I just posted my response in the discussion portion of ITB. Cheers Wongjerang


Thanks Indon. I tried to hide it until the delivery day, hehehhe. Have you seen it before? If not, then I have done a somewhat good job of hiding it :P. Cheers -- Imoeng 20:30, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Umm yeah, pretty much. But the bot is not mine, it belongs to User:Martinp23. You can say many thanks if you want :P. I am at school, talk to you later. Cheers -- Imoeng 02:32, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Umm, a request[edit]

Hi how are you? Umm, about your offer for a virtual review on Religion in Indonesia, currently I am still waiting for that :D. But no pressure if you are busy, I just want to get it through GA as soon as possible :D. Thanks very much! Imoeng 10:58, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I appreciate it. Btw hows Lebaran there? Cheers -- Imoeng 12:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Hehe, we (me and some Indo friends) went to Melbourne Uni to pray, but then we discover that ALL people there were Indonesians, haha. Then we visited some friends (Indonesians too), and eat all day, chat, stuff like that. So are you with people who celebrate Eid as well or what? :D Cheers -- Imoeng 12:27, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Skandar Keynes[edit]

Thanks for the GA review of Skandar Keynes(talk). I am wondering if you have any specific suggestions for improving the article. Skandar Amin Casper Keynes (born September 5, 1991) is an English actor best known for starring as Edmund Pevensie in the 2005 film adaptation of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. is really all there is to say in terms of a notable acting career. He had a staring role in a major movie, but has no other notable roles no was his performance partiularly notable in other respects (awards, etc). As for everything being trivia; some of it is, perhaps, but family and education information at least is standard in biographical articles and he does have notable family connections. Since GA is billed as being for short articles, I wouldn't expect that being 3Kb would be an automatic disqualification. Not that the article is so stellar that I am contesting your judgement, I'm just not sure what it the best way forward to improve it. Eluchil404 04:50, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

If I understand you correctly (I honestly am unclear about exactly what you mean in a couple of places). You are claiming that the article is a stub that has been padded with trivia. I don't think either assertion is accurate since the article is not too short to provide encyclopedic coverage of the subject and it contains littleinformation that is interesting without being important. I still don't understand how I could improve the article so that you would pass it. If it is a stub it should be expanded but if it is full of trivia it should be cut down. Also, as I said before, the discussion of his family and schooling is not trivia as it is defined in WP:TRIVIA and I have seen ther term commonly used in wikipedia. Eluchil404 10:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Blogs and Sources[edit]

With reference to this I would like to point to you that many websites in India use the Blog Platform for maintaing and they are not "Blogs" in the term you mean. For example see here That site too is designed with Blogger but is not a blog. I am not arguing that the source you edited is a valid one or a reliable one. (Please don't misunderstand me) I am just pointing out to you that not everything that may look like a Blog is actually a blog. Thanks for your time. This is just a general comment and not against your edit.  Doctor Bruno  10:18, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your message on my talk page. That is not at all needed. Especially the words your sources or your case. It was not my blog. I did not add that link. I was not asking you to replace it. I was not arguing for that blog. Your message tells me that you have misunderstood my first message. Please read my message. I have told more than once that my message is not supporting that blog or against your edit. It was a general observation. It was just to tell you that not all that look like a blog is acually a blog. There is no need for your case or your source as I was not at all referring to any source in particular or was telling that that is a {WP:RS|Reliable source]]. What I was telling is that NOT ALL BLOGS(or sites that look like blog) ARE NON RELIABLE. Even you say the same thing. If you had not understand that (the message above), it is probably my fault of not being to explain to you !!!!. I regret my poor communication skills as I was not able to convey that in the first message itself!!!!. Regards.  Doctor Bruno  10:53, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
With reference to your message The site is clearly a blog and worse that it is a commercial blog That is DEFINITELY a commercial site, but it is NOT A BLOG. You seem to have some confusion over what is a blog and what is not a blog. This was exactly why I posted the message in the first place. Please note that (while a commercial site) can in no way be called as a blog. You can ask the opinion of others. (Not that I am going to link from that site) I just gave an example to illustrate that not all sites designed with blogger are blogs. The question is not whether that is reliable or not. The question is not whether that is a commercial site or not. The question is whether that is a blog or not. is not a blog. Similar sites are not blog. This is just to tell you that not all sites that look like blog to you are really blogs. You still seem to be confused. I am sure that my communications skills are to be improved as I am unable to tell you WHAT IS NOT A BLOG even after this example.  Doctor Bruno  14:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I never told blog is not a blog. Also I never told whether the site you edited was not a blog. I was just cautioning you that there are many sites which may look like blog, but are not blogs. I only told that (for example) is not a blog, but (for example) is a blog. As per Blog, A blog is a website where entries are made in journal style and displayed in a reverse chronological order. As per Webster blog is a Web site that contains an online personal journal with reflections, comments, and often hyperlinks provided by the writer . Now you Compare the above two sites. You do not have the reverse chronological order (you do not have any chronological order for that matter) in the first example. See that there are no dates in the It is just like any other web site. Dates and Timestamp are the most important criteria for a blog. Now compare and and you will see that they are similar. The only difference is that the former is developed by Front Page and the later by Blogger. The former is hosted at the own domain and the later is hosted at Blogspot, but they are NOT BLOGS. Now compare with The first is hosted at the own server and the second site is hosted at Blogspot. But both are blogs. So the Server or the Platform used does not determine whether a site is Blog or not. In the same way, even is a Blog, inspite of the fact it is not made by Blogger platform and inspite of the fact that it is not hosted in Blogspot. Hope I have made things clear. Any doubts, please ask and I can try to explain more. I regret my poor command and language and communication for not being able to explain to you in the first instance  Doctor Bruno  17:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

The only criteria is the reliability of the source, be it newspaper or blog etc. I am sure about that. I was only telling you that the concept you had about blog is not what is generally thought to be a blog. If you had understood the difference, that serves the purpose  Doctor Bruno  18:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


Thanks Indon, I appreciate it. Maybe tomorrow I will replace for better sources from Google Scholar. Merbabu has just told me about it :P. Cheers -- Imoeng 11:46, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Anon editor[edit]

Indon, remember that anon editor who adds large slabs of unverified info? He's been particualarly active lately. Although almost all of it is badly written (often the main reason i often remove it), some of the content might might be OK, but it is hard to know as he doesn't provide references. Actually, he has recently put refs in the bottom - no inline - but they are not all web based, and it would take some time to go through. My position is that it is better to have a small of amount of good info over a large amount of (possible) s**t. I know much of Indonesia wikipedia articles are not high quality, so I am trying to spot more possible c**p getting in there. What do you think? Here are the contribs I know about... [4], [5], [6], [7]

--Merbabu 03:13, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed that. I'm going to back you up there. — Indon (reply) — 07:56, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, i did some work on Indonesian National Revolution but FAR from finished. Maybe that Battle of Surabaya bit can be summarised, and then the rest put into a seperate article. Actually, that article has an interesting history. Check out the talk page - I'd like to see some of those sources they were talking about. --Merbabu 08:03, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I'll do it in the afternoon. I am going to have a progress meeting of my real life work today. See ya later. — Indon (reply) — 08:04, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Mount Tambora[edit]

Hi how are you? Really, it is a very good article, but I cannot say anything about FAC, as I am not better than you in editing articles. I'd say wait for GA first (which I think it will pass soon), then nominate it for FA. But again, it is awesome, verifiable, good flow, the best lah! Hehehe. Hey sorry if I crossed your comments on my talk page, it is just to indicate which ones I have changed and which ones I need to change. Cheers -- Imoeng 10:39, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Haha, now?? Umm well, haha, yeah of course I will support. But don't you think we (you) better wait for GA? Cheers -- Imoeng 10:43, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Haha, good! I just thought people at FAC would reconsider their opinion if the article is a GA. Speaking about networking, I have something to tell, via Yahoo, is that alright? Cheers -- Imoeng 10:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Alright or not? :P. Cheers -- Imoeng 10:53, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, if you went for GA I think you would easily get it. It may be good to get GA first - ie, one needs to finish high school before going to university. Does one need GA before FA? On the other hand, I think there is a small but not impossible chance you could get FA, but if not at least you should find out why not and how to improve it. Ie, if you got GA you wouldn't learn that much, but if you fail FA, you will learn something. Up to you, lah. --Merbabu 11:07, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. I'm going to follow Yomangani suggestion below. However, I'd like to graduate from university without going to elementary school first. :D — Indon (reply) — 11:12, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Haha, who doesn't, save money, save time ;). And Indon, I meant via emails. Maybe later though. Cheers -- Imoeng 11:29, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
WHoops! I meant, graduate high school before uni, even if high school is too easy. THe article well and truly passes primary school - i changed my post. --Merbabu 11:32, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

PS, i LOVE the quote boxes. I have never seen them before. Quotes are used quite a bit in Wookiepedia but at the start of articles rather than boxes: [8] I always wanted to use them here. --Merbabu 11:43, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, quotes has been used in WP, but don't use it too much, as people would refer it to go to Wikiquote, instead. That's why I selected only 2 quotes that best describe the event. — Indon (reply) — 13:10, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, i hope you weren't "offended" by the copy edit. I knew it was a good article, but only after editing do i realise it is indeed excellent. There is so much GOOD info there. Was it mostly already there or did you find a lot more yourself? And, of all the articles re Indonesia, why did you choose that one for complete re-write? --Merbabu 13:19, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
No, indeed I like copyediting by more than one heads. It's not my own article, anyway. Well, you know what the article looked like, before I wrote. There were a lot of unrelated images and loooooooong unsourced quotes. Here's the archive: [9]. And of all other Indonesia-related articles? Well, it's a good question, but honestly there's no specific reason. When I was going to adopt one article, I have 2 criteria: enough reliable sources and enough pictures to illustrate. So I did some literature search first, before I started to re-write. So, now I'm thinking of the next one, which is .... — Indon (reply) — 14:10, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

More Mount Tambora[edit]

It's a good article, but I don't think it is quite ready for FA yet: it needs copyediting, and looks slightly light on references. I've run quickly through the lead, but I'm a bit busy at the moment (as I have two articles I'm trying to rescue in FAR and one in FAC). There are some people offering their services as copyeditors at Wikipedia:One featured article per quarter - perhaps they can help (if not, I can come back in week or so). I'm not sure that the photos have the correct permissions - you might need to go back and get him to release them under GDFL, and it appears to require that you attribute them in the article too (images aren't my strength though). You also need to give metric/imperial equivalents when quoting figures. Good luck, Yomanganitalk 10:58, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

floating table[edit]

Great job on creating the floating table on the itb article. Still had no idea how it works, but it looks much better now. like it alot.Cheers---Wongjerang 13:07, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Dean Smith citations[edit]

I am interested in cleaning up the citations for this article, but I am having trouble doing it. I would be grateful for any help you could provide. Remember 14:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Footnote style. I think it looks more professional. Remember 14:51, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

West Bengal FAC[edit]

Hi! Thanks a lot for pointing out the flaws in the article West Bengal. We've tried to change/cite most of the qualitative words. There are a few left, which will be changed/cited soon. However, I request you to consider one point: strange citation...where a sentence has been asserted along with the name of the source. This is not an uncommon practice, even in case of FAs. Also, I have explained in the FAC the rationale why this particular sentence has been used. Please see. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 20:00, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Please see the reply in FAC. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 04:12, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Copyright problems with Image:Gilberto Silva Against Villa.jpg[edit]

Hi there - I saw you had marked Silva Against Villa.jpg for deletion because it appears on [10]. While this is true; the author of the work (Jaime Ramirez) has released the photograph under a creative commons license (see summary on image page). Have I marked this properly? I'm a bit of a newbie, so I'd really appreciate some help on how to show that the image is free to be used on Wikipedia. Thanks very much for your time. GilbertoSilvaFan 09:24, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Edit: I've just seen the suggestions you left on on the FAC page - they're very helpful; I'll get on them right away! One other thing, is to whom the Streetleague photo is credited to, is that the link you said went to a blank page? It seems to work OK for me, but I don't know if that's the link you're talking about. Thanks again. GilbertoSilvaFan 09:28, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Copyright problems with Image:Victoria memorial water.jpg[edit]

I'm not the original uploader, so I can't really comment on this. Unfortunately I didn't think to record who the original uploader was either. However, I did copy over all of the information from the original image's description. --Tom Edwards 21:09, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


Actually, the Java article is of a fairly lousy quality relative to Java's notability. It could be a fine piece. Perhaps editors have been reluctant to lengthen it as most information can be found in more detailed articles, however, I don't believe that readers should have to ferret around on other linked pages unless the "summary" page is too long. Some of those sections are just list of links, and others not much more. FOr example, why not discuss the Javanese and the Sundanese, rather than just link to them. Discuss, how Islam tends to be more orthodox in Sunda whereas in "Jawa" it is fused with more superstitious beliefs. And much more.--Merbabu 14:10, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the citation help[edit]

moved to userpageIndon (reply) — 04:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

West Bengal FAC: further[edit]

Hi! Wow! That was fantastic review of the article. Thanks a lot for so painstakingly finding out the errors. I have tried my best to mend the errors. Please have a look. Again, thanks a lot. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:04, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I cannot but appreciate your in depth knowledge. Thanks a lot for drawing attention to the ommissions. Especially, the article should have covered the arsenic problem. You know, I happen to know the very first reported case of Arsenic poisoning in the state! The lady still comes to the Dept of Neurology in the hospital where I work, as she is suffering from Neuropathy. So this ommission is a bad bad mistake. I shall try to incorporate these things and let you know. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 11:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Hmm. You are correct in pointing out that WP:LS states lead should be carefully sourced as appropriate. So I was in sort of a misconception!
However, I have seen previously in FACs/elsewhere objections against citations in the lead. This is probably because the statements made in the lead is expected to be elaborated in the forthcoming text of the article. For example, in this particual case, the advancement in economy from 1990s has been explained in the "Economy" section with multiple references and figures. The statement in the lead is a gist of that. Now, if one is to provide reference for the statement in the lead, all those references have to be provided. That will clutter the lead. Again, these references have to be repeated in the "Economy" (as the figures need to be supported by citations). So I request you to reconsider the appropriateness of the ciation needed tags in the lead in this article. Meanwhile, I shall try if some single citation is available stating exactly in the same way as has been articulated in the lead!
Arsenic contamination, Pollution of Ganges and Land acquisition problems have been covered. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 12:17, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Please see the reply in the FAC and comment. Thanks.--Dwaipayan (talk) 21:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


The owner has changed the copyright status of the image [was CC 2.5 when uploaded], so it appears to be a copyvio. Not sure whether it's lawful, but it needs to be taken down anyway. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Palaeologus 03:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


The vandalism seems endless - I suppose we just have to watch and revert, watch and revert. etc SatuSuro 14:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for asking - - as I put in that entry long time ago -scattered - I keep meaning to go back to my old indonesian articles, and make sure that I clean them up -

but I have a large number of australian articles that I have started that need cleaning up as well - semua sulit - terlalu banyak keliling... dan lain lain. I was very impressed by your work with Tambora, and I am very impressed by your hard work. Trust all is well with you! SatuSuro 14:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

How do I confirm that copyright problems with Images have been resolved?[edit]

Copyright problems with Image:St etheldredas church interior.jpg
Copyright problems with Image:St etheldredas church exterior.jpg

I think the trouble arose from me mis-labelling these images with the pulldown menu when I initially uploaded them; I attempted to re-label them as PD-release since the author, Hanne Whitfield, has given her permission for them to be released into the public domain. Would it be possible for you to clarify what I need to do to make sure they are recognized as PD(or point me to a more in-depth set of instructions)? Thanks, Bencoland 15:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice, I'm writing to the author to ask her to change the photos' designation on Flickr. Bencoland 16:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
So, the author of these two has changed the copyright settings on Flickr, i think to SA; are they usable now?: ( Image:St etheldredas church exterior.jpg) ( Image:St etheldredas church interior.jpg)
I've also asked the author of the other three to change the images' designation to BY or SA, when they're changed I'll try to update the copyright info on all the images. ( Image:St etheldredas christ stained glass.jpg) ( Image:St_etheldredas_st_bridget_stained_glass.jpg) ( Image:St_etheldredas_church_stainedglass.jpg )
Bencoland 19:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Indon. The author of the other 3 photos is travelling and thinks it could take about 2 weeks to get to a machine where she can update the copyright notice; are the images likely to be deleted before then?Bencoland 10:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


Half the article is out of universe. I could try to reduce the plot summary; what would you have specifically removed? Not like..quotations, just general guidelines. I'll get on it. Zeality 20:44, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for tagging this and other images for speedy deletion. It is a great help in keeping unfree images off the Wikipedia.

May I ask that if you tag an image for speedy deletion and it is clear (like having an unfree license or bogus fair use tag), that you would also remove it from some or all of the pages it is on? This speeds up the process for admins and as it is something any user can do, as opposed to deletion which is limited to admins, can be a better use of limited user resources.

There's no need to reply unless you're unsure or have any queries, as I think Wikipedia would be better served with more proactive hands-on help. Thanks again! Stifle (talk) 21:24, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Indian architecture photos[edit]

Hey Indon, while i respect the need to remove copyvio images, it would be very sad in this case. Can you check carefully again their status on the images' actual pages. In the meantime, i have left a message for the guy who uploaded them, asking him to reconfirm. thanks --Merbabu 01:53, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

yeah, OK. It's just such a shame particularly for something as visual as Architecture. Pokoknya, if they have to go fine, just make sure you are correct. Thanks for the effort!--Merbabu 02:00, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Supreme Court of Western Australia[edit]

I've amended the license that the image has on Flickr so that it may be used on Wikipedia without inadvertent copyright violations. I must say that this would have been an easier process had you simply asked me directly to clarify the license. kju 02:50, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Give me a couple of hours and it shall be done. And I am the copyright holder. I took that photo one morning before work. kju 02:57, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

West Bengal FAC: More[edit]

Hi! I admit your arguements are quite rational. However, Wikipedia:What is a featured article? #2 states "It complies with the standards set out in the manual of style and relevant WikiProjects...". That's why we shoould try to follow Wikipedia:WikiProject Indian states as far as possible. That does not mean problems/negative aspects of the state won't be discussed! However, at the same time, all the aspects/facts of the state should be, at least, touched upon. If we go on providing more space to Arsenic or any other particular problem, there will be the size problem with the article. Of course, ommission of arsenic problem was a MAJOR flaw in the article and thank you for pointing out this.

If the articles gives a feel of Lonely Planet text, that's bad. To make it more exhaustive, may be more problems shopuld be touched upon. But, giving a paragraph for Arsenic problem would not be proper, I guess. The arsenic problem in the area has been discussed seperately in the article arsenic contamination of groundwater, and that has been linked to the article.

So far as lists of institutions/newspapaers/sports venues etc are concerened, those are given according to the guidelines provided in Wikipedia:WikiProject Indian states. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair use problem with Image:Akshardhamindelhi.jpg[edit]

Thanks for your concerns regarding the tag.

I have changed the tag from promotional to fairuse5 tag.

I hope this will be now OK for wikipedia.

Uday 06:59, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Java collaboration[edit]

Hi Indon/Archive3! Starting today, the Indonesia Collaboration is Java. Come along and help make this an article worthy of the world’s greatest island. There’s a suggested to-do list on the the talk page to which you can add, or just pick a task. All sorts of tasks are required, Images, Citations, Research, Copy Edit; you name it, it needs to be done – this important article needs your help!! Regards -- Imoeng 08:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Cars Game Cover[edit]

Thank you for alerting me that my picture is now orphaned. When I initially uploaded it, I used it on the wiki page for Cars (video game). It seems that someone has replaced it with the cover for the Wii version. What course of action would you recommend? RMS Oceanic 11:45, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Samsara Image[edit]

Hi Indon - in reference to [Image:Samsara.jpg], please could you add some comments on the discussion page to explain how the image is unsuitable for it's current fair-use tag? At the moment the page is being bombarded by tags, but no argument has been clearly given. Regards, GourangaUK 12:56, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Geertz and Suharto[edit]

Hi Indon - ::I'm leaving this note on yours and Imoeng's talk page - Clifford Geertz died on the 30th - I think it should be on the news in the portal - but would prefer you guys put it on. I think his and Tommy Suharto's release should be on the news page - it is very symbolic! SatuSuro 13:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply and explaining it to me - I'm going have to get off now for an hour - I am sure most news services in Jakarta will be carrying the tommy suharto story - I am not so sure about the Geertz death though SatuSuro 13:36, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon

I cut a lot of fluff out of the story section, including fetch quests. The standard for CVG artcles is a comprehensive plot section, comparable to Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VII, and some other examples. The out of universe information is now larger in size than the in-universe summary, and I've tried to provide as much critical review as possible. I'm still working on finding sales figures and Japanese reviews, which seems to be an impossible task...Anyhow, the article should look better as I clean up the reception section per others' oppositions. Can you take a second look? --Zeality 13:28, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Pondok Indah[edit]

DO you know anything about Pondok Indah. It's up for deletion as being unotable because some bloke in New Hampshire can't find any notability for it in Google. Is it notable in your opinion? I thought it was pretty much the most expensive suburb in Jakarta. Any good sources? Of internet or othewise? Please contribute if you can. Thanks. --Merbabu 04:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Wrong license[edit]

Regarding images that you uploaded here: Image:Willard_Eldred.jpg, Image:Eldred_eagle_medal.jpg, Image:Arthur_Eldred1912.jpg and Image:Eldred_Color_Eagle.jpg, the license you put contradicts with the permission you got. In the license, you wrote: "The image use must be attributed to them, the image can not altered, and it can only be used for informational and educational purposes", but you used CC-BY-SA-2.5, in which this license allows freely to use the images for commercial purposes. Could you please update those images? I've put tags of wrong license there. As soon as you fix this license, you can remove the tag. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 11:38, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but what would be the right license? I'm obviously not an image tag expert. Pls respond on my page....PS, I added the don't alter and educational stuff so people wouldn't alter the images. They merely said I could use it on wiki.Rlevse 12:36, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Some are prior to Jan 1923, the US PD date, so yes to some, but some aren't. What about them? Thanks for helping.Rlevse 13:27, 2 November 2006 (UTC)...Ah, I think GFDL will work for the others. Let me know if not. Thanks. Rlevse 13:48, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
yes, it helps, but I find the whole tag issue complicated and confusing. Rlevse 13:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
On the PD page, it talked about photos made long time ago but not pubished til much later, which I think is the case with one, so I used GFDL for it too and made a note. Did you look at this article for GA purposes? If so, do you have other input? Rlevse 14:04, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mount Tambora[edit]

The article Mount Tambora you nominated as a good article has passed Symbol support vote.png, see Talk:Mount Tambora for eventual comments about the article. Good luck in future nominations. Qyd 17:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Woo Hoo! Well done. Indon, you alone deserve the credit. --Merbabu 23:48, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Congratulations on your Mount Tambora GA! Well done! SatuSuro 02:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)