User talk:JamieBrown2011

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Hello, JamieBrown2011, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome!   Will Beback  talk  09:08, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

PS: Some of the material you've added is unsourced, or the linked website does not contain the assertions they are cited for. Could you please review your edits to make sure they are all verifiable using reliable sources?   Will Beback  talk  09:08, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks I will do that. I appreciate the help. JamieBrown2011 (talk) 20:09, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 17[edit]

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International Christian Churches[edit]

Hi there Jamie! I would like to talk and collaborate on the ICC page. I want a fair representation of the good bad and ugly. Can we talk? I am at 4168372046

@TimCKernan Vandalism is probably not your best approach to collaboration on a WP page. Please go and read WP:VANDAL JamieBrown2011 (talk) 15:28, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
@JamieBrown2011 I did not intend any vandalism. I think I pressed save and messed things up a bit. Sorry about that. That being said I do think that this page is not balanced at all. Can we discuss so that a fair and balanced page can come out of it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TimCKernan (talkcontribs) 16:05, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
@JamieBrown2011 Automatically reverting edits is no way to edit on Wikipedia. This is an encyclopedic community. I have made comments in each of my edits and I feel that they are appropriate. You even reverted a formatting error that I corrected. Why? You need to explain yourself in comments or create a section in the Talk Page. CdHess (talk) 20:54, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
@CdHess, you removed a series of properly sourced edits from the page without proper explanation, which I restored, and then you added POV commentary onto the page. JamieBrown2011 (talk) 05:51, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
@JamieBrown2011 - I removed one edit from the introduction and I did explain why. I explained that McKean being disfellowshipped does not belong in the intro of the article. This fact is not necessary in the intro of an article. McKean being disfellowshipped is then discussed in detail later in the article. The other additions I made were not POV. They listed specific dates and simply added to what was already in the article. I did not remove any info. You should read carefully the content that is being put up and taken down before you revert the edits in a knee-jerk way. In no way have I made unreasonable edits to the article. CdHess (talk) 21:40, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
@CdHess, you are mistaken. WP Policies state: The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview. It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies. ...controversies should neither be suppressed or allowed to overwhelm. By you removing the controversial aspects in the lead, you are going against WP Policy. JamieBrown2011 (talk) 04:43, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
@JamieBrown2011 - You are making the intro about McKean when you keep that last portion in there. There are plenty of things that are controversial about the ICC that can be mentioned. You focusing on the controversy of McKean alone is unreasonable and inappropriate. This portion would belong just fine in the article intro for McKean. As far as the ICC article, I think not. CdHess (talk) 20:58, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
@CdH, Since the ICC began because of and after McKean was ex-communicated from his previous church, that makes it a significant enough event to include. Feel free to add additional controversies to the lead section if you deem them necessary. JamieBrown2011 (talk) 06:20, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
@JamieBrown2011 - the ICC movement began years before Kip was disfellowshipped from the ICOC. I will be making additional edits to reflect that history. I hope that you will respect these edits and add to them as necessary. Thank you. CdHess (talk) 14:18, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
@CdH, you are talking about movements within the ICOC, however the ICC did not exist as a formal organization until after McKean was disfellowshipped as you put it, so trying to suppress that information will be in violation of WP policies. JamieBrown2011 (talk) 15:13, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
@JamieBrown2011 - You are correct in that the name came directly after McKean was disfellowshiped, but you are in error that the disfellowshipment was only directed toward McKean alone. Sure, he may have been the catalyst or whatever, but the entire Portland Movement was disfellowshipped. It is not fair to the history of the ICC to make the whole thing about McKean. CdHess (talk) 15:26, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
@CdH, there is a "history" section where you can flesh out those details.JamieBrown2011 (talk) 19:21, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
@JamieBrown2011 - Great! I will do that. I will also edit the intro to reflect that history since this article is about the ICC and not about McKean. Thanks! CdHess (talk) 19:28, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
@CdH, you know that is not what I was suggesting! You have the "history" section to add detail. The LEAD does not have to cover the detail you are suggesting. JamieBrown2011 (talk) 20:09, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
@JamieBrown2011 - I highly disagree with you. The intro for the ICC should cover the ICC. The intro for Kip McKean should cover Kip McKean. We will see how this all fleshes out in the community. As a reminder, this is not your personal page to edit as you see fit. I started this discussion in the hopes that we could come to agreement. Instead your only response is that my edits will be violating Wikipedia standards. You are mistaken. I too know Wikipedia and have been a registered user for years. Let's let the rest of the community decide the fate of this page. The community may be better at deciding the article's fate anyway since it is obvious that you have a clear bias in your edits. CdHess (talk) 20:28, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

@CdH, following the policies of Wikipedia concerning the lead section does not indicate bias. You have yet to show one policy that exempts the leader's controversy from his group.JamieBrown2011 (talk) 20:54, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

@JamieBrown2011 - The Five Pillars of Wikipedia state that the articles are to be encyclopedic. The sentence about McKean at the intro is disjointed and not inline with the previous sentences. If you take a look (from an objective viewpoint) it does not read well topically and therefore falls under the Editorial discretion guideline. I am here to create an accurate, balanced and informational article. Please remember that the goal of Wikipedia is to create a public encyclopedia. Don't get caught up in guidelines and semantics. Remember the 5th Pillar - Ignore all rules. -- CdHess (talk) 21:51, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

To be clear, Kip Mckean was never "disfellowshipped." Mckean was taken out of World Sector Leader leadership and as leader of the ICOC, transferred to Portland as their lead evangelist, and not kicked out of the ICOC. Later on, Mckean became dissatisfied that he was no longer the leader of the movement he started, chose to leave, and chose to start his own new movement. Qewr4231 (talk) 10:37, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Kip Mckean made a rule that any leader whose child leaves the ICOC must step down from leadership. Kip's daughter, while studying at Harvard, and having her tuition paid by the ICOC, chose to leave the ICOC. Kip Mckean was forced to follow his own rule and step down as leader of the ICOC. Kip Mckean was then assigned to the Portland Church of Christ. That's how Kip Mckean got to Portland and eventually broke off from the ICOC and started the ICC. Qewr4231 (talk) 10:43, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Indonesian Churches of Christ Wiki Page Help[edit]

Mr yohan (talk) 10:11, 26 January 2015 (UTC) Hi Bro,

I see you are the one who edits and updates the wiki page of International Churches of Christ. I contacted you because of that. I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Yohannes Affandy Siregar, and I am one of the admins of, the ICOC church in Indonesia, led by Mr. Harliem Salim. I'd like to make our own English Wiki page, titled Gereja Kristus Di Indonesia, but it was subjected to deletion because they say it was kinda spam for Wikipedia. What I did, I just translated the wiki page from Bahasa Indonesia [1] and it was already confirmed as a wiki page since 2012. Please tell me what I did wrong. Is it my translation, or any sentence that is not encyclopedic enough or what. Thank you for helping out.

God bless,

Yohannes Mr yohan (talk) 10:11, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Mr yohan (talk) Yes, I am among many editors who have contributed to the ICOC page. My guess is the reason your submission was rejected is a lack of NOTABILITY or the sources you were using did not come from a reliable 3rd party source. You can read WP:RS to understand better what wikipedia requires. You could create a subsection on the ICOC page that deals with Indonesian churches if you want? Hope this helps. JamieBrown2011 (talk) 11:49, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
JamieBrown2011 (talk) Oh, okay. Is it okay if I just edit the wiki page for ICOC? Or can you please help me by doing so? I want to start by the 2020 vision for Indonesia that we want to build 50 churches by the end of 2020. Thank you.
Mr yohan go for it! Just go ahead and edit the page. If you make mistakes, don't worry, myself or other editors will help you. JamieBrown2011 (talk) 07:19, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Who gave JamieBrown2011 control over all the International Churches of Christ pages on all Wikipedia sites?? Qewr4231 (talk) 10:53, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

  1. ^