User talk:Jonathan Oldenbuck/2012

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Historical Accuracy on Wikipedia

Hi Johnathan

Thanks for your note. Are you like a sponsor/guide for me? I have an interest in family history with a strong interest in military history. As one side of the family (my side) comes from Scotland I have started to look at life and times in Medieval Scotland. Clearly the historical record is not intact and hence open to interpretation but I have noted that some web pages within my sphere of interest show what can only be speculation but represent it as fact. Having four children and acknowledging their use of wikipedia as an forum for research I am concerned that history, as it exists in the record, may be being high-jacked by self-interest.

To provide you a case in point: The article on Ardchattan Priory states, categorically that "it was founded in 1230 by Duncan MacDougal, Lord of Argyll". This statement is not referenced but has, unfortunately been taken as gospel and rejurgitated onto other web sites such as [1]. However the truth may be different. I cannot find the original charter; checking with Historic Scotland confirms that it no longer exists and that the source reference is Extracta e Cronicis Scotiae which states "Monasterium de Ardcattane fundauit anno predicto Duncanus Mackoule". Extracta, pg.93. Other historical authors; Balfour and Spottiswoode particularly, differ from wikipedia. John Spotswood's work, The History of the Church of Scotland, states that the founder was actually a MacCulloch and suggested "a man of great wealth". Historic Scotland are drawn to infer that the Mackoule is a MacDougall from the work of George Fraser Black in The Surnames of Scotland where he attests that Mackoule is a variant of MacDougall. However I suggest that the name MacDougall did not exists in 1230. The source of the name is given as Donnchadh of Argyll and while he lived in the period in question he was never known as MacDougall or any varient. I can only find one record of him and he is recorded as Donnchadh of Argyll; indeed we would expect this at that time in history. The name MacDougall (or mac Dubgaill) does not appear on record until well into the 14th Century. While I don't contest Black's work (I have not read it fully to contest it) it would seem that the Mackoule in question may indeed have been a MacCulloch. This then questions a variety of associated sites:

  • Dunstaffnage_Castle, which seems to be your interest area, the same Duncan MacDougal. However the castle was there well before Donnchadh of Argyll and not in the hands of the MacDougalls long and I expect they had little to do with constructing or building the castle.
  • Donnchadh of Argyll itself states him to be a "prominent builder, notable for his construction of Ardchattan Priory and Dunstaffnage Castle" but I doubt he built either of them.

Is there some advice that you may like to share? I can express a view on a talk page but does anyone respond? Do I simply change the page and wait for an argument?

Family locator (talk) 02:52, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Henderson Street Cats

Hi Jonathan,

You recently removed Category: Edinburgh from the Henderson Street article using Hot Cats. I'm not sure why this has been done. I did ask for help from several experienced wiki users when adding Cats for the article and none of them saw a problem with it being included. So, I'm just wondering why a street in Leith shouldn't have Edinburgh as one of it's categories for general identification? Can you clarify the reason so I understand the motivation for removing it? Thanks (Lisaseventyfive (talk) 10:52, 7 April 2012 (UTC))

Hi again Jonathan,

Just to say - thanks for the clarification. I appreciate you getting back to me.. Glad you found the article interesting too! (Lisaseventyfive (talk) 18:23, 17 April 2012 (UTC))

Scans from reference works - libraries

If interested in fleshing out the three library articles I've started, I can email you the scans I've taken from the reference books in the Scottish Room of Central Library, Edinburgh.

I suspect, getting to talk to the Principal Librarian next week, may lead to access to a good deal more useful material. 9th July this year will be the 125th anniverary of Andrew Carnegie laying the foundation stone of Central Library in Edinburgh, so I'd like to exploit that to recruit some of the library staff in the city. --Brian McNeil /talk 10:28, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Barony A Frame

The reason I added those Wikilinks that you removed (with this edit) is the following: Not everyone knows what a Barony is and not everyone knows what a Colliery is, the phrase taken together means something akin to "Township Coal Mine" in American parlance. Nowhere in the article is either word or the phrase explained to readers outside of Scotland/UK. Shearonink (talk) 13:15, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

OK, then colliery is fair enough, but I dont think the article on barony is relevant: the Barony Colliery was a specific colliery called Barony, not just something related to baronies in general. Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 11:38, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Earls of Menteith

Thank you for your comments regarding the Earls of Menteith. If you see anything that I added that I may have been too lazy to source, please inform me. Gwsyfer (talk) 20:55, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Article writers' guide

Hi Jonathan. Would you be interested in contributing to a new Bugle 'Article writers' guide' on buildings and fortifications? If so, please do so here. Thanks! Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 05:54, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Forth Replacement Crossing

Yngvadottir (talk) 08:03, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Scottish National War Memorial (reference to the form in September 2012)

Hi Jonathan, thanks indeed for your inclusion some time ago of material (originally contained and still contained under this same title in Edinburgh Castle) in this separate article in Wikipedia, and in particular as in September 2012 I believe significant but removed I am sorry to say on 30 October (I think this was in its earlier version at the time indeed of immense historical and architectural significance and importance at least from an historical point of view).

It was I think wuite clearly unfortunately in the date mentionede last month (October 2012) removed by this same person (yourself) without any sort of investigation whatsoever with myself as principal author of the material now removed.

If anyone has had had a look at the Shrine of the Scottish National War Memorial in Edinburgh, they will immediately have seen a quite sufficient form of confirmation of the direct relationship with the memorials elsewhere as quoted.

Wikipedia is quite evidently a totally unpredictable sort of material subject to completely unjustified removals by such as yourself who think they have the power to do it. I cannot believe anything on it is done correctly.

I today restore the original version of this article for the time being, but I shall not I am afraid be in the least surprised if you remove it again, in which case I shall not bother further on this particuar or indeed any other matter, it will be finished as far as I am concerned (is that the result you are looking for?).

Peter Judge — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:47, 1 October 2012 (UTC)


Can you help, Jonathon? User has made changes to numerous pages stating that 'Peers aren't styled "Sir"'. You can see the list here [[2]].

I reverted those on a Douglas page before I saw this complete list. I am not at all sure that he is correct in what he is doing, but need some help in reviewing this. Shipsview (talk) 15:15, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

The discussion has moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage so there is no need to get involved unless you wish to. Thanks Shipsview (talk) 08:38, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Scottish Hill Forts

Hi Jonathan I just noticed that you replaced the external West Lothian links with a proper WP page heading. I am only just getting to grips with WP and would like to thank you for that. My original posting was just to get something up there for the West Lothian sites. We are now a Trust trying to encourage others to take aerial photos of archaeological sites....can you be tempted to take it up for your Hillforts? (john(at)

Dr John Wells (talk) 20:44, 7 December 2012 (UTC)