Jonathan Levey 16:45, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
- 1 Your question at Requests for feedback
- 2 Your recent edits
- 3 Conflict of interest
- 4 Your recent edits
- 5 Talkback
- 6 Your recent edits
- 7 Talkback
- 8 Harris Levey
- 9 Talkback
- 10 "Straw poll"
- 11 Sourcing
- 12 Withdrawing
- 13 Talkback
- 14 License tagging for File:Harris Levey (aka Lee Harris) at art table circa 1940-43.jpeg
- 15 License tagging for File:Photo 4 Harris and Weisinger Art table.jpeg
- 16 Please help me to contest the deletion of this photo
- 17 Speedy deletion nomination of File:Harris Levey (aka Lee Harris) at art table circa 1940-43.jpeg
- 18 Talkback
- 19 Talkback
- 20 License tagging for File:Harris Levey Art table.jpg
- 21 Talkback
- 22 ArbCom elections are now open!
Your question at Requests for feedback
You said, I guess you are suggesting that a photograph of my dad's high school and college diploma's or transcripts would be helpful to show verification. Would a letter from the Dean of the college and the principal of the high school be sufficient?
Actually no. This is a confusing place, I agree.
In short, Wikipedia tries to rely on WP:SECONDARY sources. The items you mention would be considered primary documents, and as odd as this may seem, are not preferred. The good news is that you need do nothing (I hope). References are required if someone challenges the claim. It is not very likely that someone is going to challenge the high school. If it were central to the article, for example, if you were making an astounding claim about his grades, it might be necessary to prove it. I suggest working on other areas, and if someone does challenge the name of the high school or attendance at a college, get back to me and we can talk about what to do next. We actually do have provisions for accepting some forms of primary documents, but they aren't trivial procedures, so I'd prefer to wait until needed.
The desired reference is a secondary reference- a notice in a newspaper mentioning where Harris went to school. If you have one, fine, let's use it. If not, let's not yet worry.--SPhilbrickT 17:40, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
All good points Sphilbrick. I am stil la newbie at Wiki and wanting to learn in my few spare hours. But you are right, I don't yet understand or fully appreciate how (on Wikipedia) primary documents are not as valid as secondary documents. I know that I will need to read Wiki's rules and reasoning in more detail to understand this better. For now, I will work on providing more secondary sources, as you suggest. For example, if you clik on th efollowing link, you wil lbe taken to DeWitt Clinton's site that verifies their artic contributors to their well-known (and respecte) Magpie publication: http://newdeal.feri.org/magpie/archive/author.htm#l
Once on this site, scroll down and you will see: Harris Levey, '40
IMG "NO!! you MAY NOT SWING this march!" (Cartoon) IMG Art of Terpsichore (Illustration)
Woul dthis be a good link to put into the article? If so, can you please help to modify the article accordingly? If you are too busy, I will understand and try to do it myself. Again, many thanks for your help to date. :) Jonathan Levey 19:10, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
1940 is when Harris Levey graduated from De Witt.Jonathan Levey 23:55, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
Your recent edits
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 23:53, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
My apologies for not signing some of my posts. I am still relatively new to Wiki and seem to forget to put those "tildas" in sometimes. I will try to be more diligent about signing in the future. Jonathan Levey 23:58, 2 August 2010 (UTC) :)
- Hey Jonathan, just so you know, SineBot isn't a human; it's an automated bot. :) It crawls around Wikipedia and adds tildes when someone forgets to and usually posts a reminder. So it's nice that you're being polite, but SineBot will never know about it! Pianotech Talk to me!/Contribs 00:14, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads-up PianoTech --I was not certain, but thought this was the case. You can never be too polite to an automated bot, you know! ;)Jonathan Levey
...whoops I forgot my tildas again, so I re-edited my comment above by sticking them in! ;) Jonathan Levey 01:55, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Conflict of interest
Welcome to Wikipedia. If you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:
- editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
- participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors; and
- linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam).
For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. Thank you. This includes an article about your father. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 02:20, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
I have to say that you really gave me a scare for a minute (or two;) When I first started to write this article I was keenly aware of the COI rule and in order to try and keep it as objective as possible, I worked with two experienced Wiki editors PiantoTech and Old English. IN fact They had em work on it for a week in the Draft page space, then once Old English felt it conformed to the basic guidelines, knowing too that I would continue to work on it some more, he moved it over to Mainspace as an official article. I realize that as I continue to add info this article in the weeks and months to come, I will have to be extra vigilante to keep it objective and free of COI. I may even slip from time to time unintentionally, so if you see a way to make the article on Harris Levey better and more objective and provide even more certifications, and wiki links, please do. I was relieved to know that you did not actually flag it. However, prior to finding this out, I was so concerned it would be removed I sent Old English and Pianotech an urgent note to help in any way they could to ensure the article would not be removed. I am , as I said, very glad to know it has not been flagged. I am also very glad to hear that you genuinely appreciated the Air Wave comic series that my dad drew, and I truly hope you enjoyed reading about his life in this wiki article. If you have any links or other verification sources, as mentioned above, please send them to me or integrate them directly into the article yourself. Any constructive help of this type, or simply more helpful advise (...without scaring me! ;) will be deeply appreciated. Jonathan Levey 03:04, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
PS: I went to the wiki FAQ page for organizations, as you so thoughtfully suggested, and I tried to find the information about COI and advise for people writing about their father, but could not find this specific info. Perhaps I am looking on the wrong page. Please provide a specific link or advise. Many thanks! Jonathan Levey 03:11, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
I went back again to the FAQ page and realize that you likely meant that this information, in general, would be helpful to someone that is writing about their father... is that right?
In any case, "it is". Many thanks! :) Jonathan Levey 03:14, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Your recent edits
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 02:37, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Your recent edits
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you must sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 03:01, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Hi, Jonathan. Of course, I'd be glad to help. I'm assuming by the name you're ostensibly his son?
From a cursory glance, the piece isn't too bad at all. When I get back to Wikipedia, probably tomorrow, I'll show you one of the standard ways we do footnote citations and such. In the meantime, please look over the Five Pillars of Wikipedia for general policies.
I can see right offhand we'll need newspaper citations for a lot of this -- is there a link to his obit that you can provide, or at least a newspaper, date and page #? Obits often are a good source for things like exact birth dates and original names. We can't use anything that doesn't have documentation — anything coming from anyone's personal knowledge, which by its nature can't be independently verified, is unusual under the policy of no original research. Let's start with that -- get us all the biographical documentation you can -- if it's not online, give us the citation information, and maybe it can be tracked down another way. With regards, --Tenebrae (talk) 23:32, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks Tenebrae. Very kind of you. You are right, Harris Levey was my dad. As for my dad's obituary, I will see if I can get it from my mom in the week to come. But I did try to place a citation form the Social Security Death index. The footnote for this was removed, but the link to the death registry i sat the bottom of the article's page. Perhaps this is sufficient? In any case, I really appreciate your interest and help. However, please note that due to my own very busy work schedule M-F 9-6 and sat. and sun. of the upcoming weekend, all day, It may be two full weeks before I can spend a ample amount of time to learn how to do the citations, etc. Still, I will try to check to check the article's talk page over the next week in the evening and respond to any quick fixes, etc. I am hoping and guessing that since I have invited more experienced wiki editors with a true interest in comics, that perhaps these knowing members will begin to make their own modifications directly to the article. One quick question... if I scan original artwork (ie. DC Comic ink illustration of the first Tarantula, and original color sheets form Air Wave, as well as a newsletter interview that was published in-house for Advertising employees that features Harris Levey, can I upload these scanned images onto the Wiki article? Please advise and post your helpful comments on my article's Talk Page so that I can follow-up. Jonathan Levey (talk) 01:52, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
- I'm not sure additional artwork would be needed at this point, given the size of the article. For copyright reasons, only a limited number of fair use images, with rationale as to why they're necessary, can go into an article. However, if you have a photograph of Harris Levey that you could add to the article, giving permission as the copyright holder when you upload it, that would be very helpful.
- The (presumably DC?) newsletter interview you could post on this page for a day or two so that other editors can take notes and cite it. It can't stay on this page, but I think for a short period it's allowable as something that helps discussion of how to improve the article.
- Tenebrae, just to clarify, the newsletter interview with Harris Levey is an interview that took place at the NYC Advertising firm, Fotte Cone & Belding, not at DC Comics. It took place in the 1970's and I thoguht it might help to solidfy the credibility fo the Advertising seciton of my article. However, at thsi point, it seem that the focus of this article is on Harris Levey's contribution to Air Wave and the Golden Age of Comics genre, so I am not sure if it is really worthwhile for me to scan and post this Fotte Cone & Belding interview. Please advsie. Jonathan Levey (talk) 13:42, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
- You're probably right. Any award he may have won in advertising would be worth mentioning, but unless he was written about in the press for his advertising work, it's probably only worth mentioning the names of the companies for the record. And even here, we need to get third-party confirmation.
- For the Leland Harris thing, we actually need to find a third-party citation that it was a legal named change; in fact, if the named Leland Harris doesn't appear in databases or elsewhere, we can't even mention it since the only source is yourself, which isn't allowed because of one of Wikipedia's core policies, no original research (that is, everything has to be footnoted or otherwise referenced to a neutral, objective, preferably journalistic or academic third-party source).
- The issue we're running up against overall is the dearth of written material about Harris Levey, other than about his comic book work. If there are print sources that may not be online, those will be needed.
OK. Thanks for putting this iinto perspective Tenebrae, and for your continued thoughtful work in an effort to make this article on Harris Levey more credible. At this point, I beleive I have given much of what I can give to provide the facts and information as I know them to be. If verifications and citations are lacking and you, or other memebrs decide (hopefully jointly) to remove or modify (ie. thin down ) certain sections of the article, in order to strengthen it, then I will trust your sound judgements and initiatives. The fact that you, Tenebrae, have helped to establish merit and notability for the DC Comic Artwork of Harris Levey, means a great deal in itself and is deeply appreciated. Keep up your great efforts (as your limited time allows). Perhaps you have some sage advice for my comments on the Talk page of another article Tarantula (DC Comics). However, I am starting to see that my questions and requests for interest on help, in terms of requestin ghelp from fellow WCP wiki members in determining the value of my dad's Tarantula (DC) artwork, may no tbe apporprie on the Wiki Talk forum. Instead, I guess I should try and contact Comic Book Goldsen Age authorities on my own, outside the wiki theater. Is that right, tenebrae? If so, do you have any respected experts in this field to recommend? Jonathan Levey (talk) 20:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
- That pretty much sounds like original research, which isn't allowed, for practical reasons I explain in the section below. It's also not necessary — just verify through a source like Grand Comics Database or Comic Book DB or a DC Index called "Mike's," I think, that Harris Levey drew the first appearance of DC's Tarantula. Simple as that! --Tenebrae (talk) 02:19, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
According to the page Wikipedia:Straw polls, the idea of a straw poll was a failed proposal that did not achieve consensus. I couldn't find where a straw poll on Harris Levey is ostensibly being held, but if it is being held, it's improper. If someone wants to initiate a former deletion discussion (the article does not meet the criteria for [[WP:SD|speedy deletion), then that's another thing, and a lengthier process. --Tenebrae (talk) 19:38, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
I apologize, Tenebrae. I thought I deleted my concern about a Straw Poll from your Talk page, but it seems I did not. I tseems that the "Starw Poll" anouncement may have been for Watchlist pages, in general and "not" intended specifically for my Harris Levey article page. In fact, it seems to appear at the top of my "MY Watchlist" page... just curious, does it also appear at the top of your "My Wactchlist" page? As you suggest, the Starw Poll seems to have been an experimental idea that has been eitehr done away with, or left to lapse into oblivion. In any case, there does not seem to be an issue of a Straw Poll in relation to the Levey page, nor does there (currently) seem to be any furtheer suggestion of the article's merit on Wiki or call for deletion. Again, I apologized for the confusion and thank you for lookin ginto this for me and for your re-assurance. I am very pleased with the way concerned and knowledgeable wiki editors and members of WCP have invested their time and thought to modify, improve and streamline the article --I know too that your input in particular has been both encouraging and practical (ie. in terms of actual modifications to text, images, etc. Many thaks! Jonathan Levey (talk) 21:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
You understand correctly: A document from someone at the agency would be considered a primary source, and wouldn't be usable. The reason why? Because a private document is not something that anyone else could access.
Here's the whole thing with WIkipedia sourcing: It has to be to something that anyone could look up and check for themselves. Even a book that would require a library or bookstore visit is still something that, theoretically, anyone in Pierre, N.D., or Dijon, France, or wherever could get and see the source of a claim for him/herself.
You're right again when you suggest that a newspaper or magazine article is generally the best sort of source. Books and reliable websites are good sources as well. The key thing to remember: "Can the average person, if he or she wanted to, look this material up for themselves?"
- I'm afraid social media sites are problematic since anyone can post anything and there's no way to confirm the accuracy or veracity of it. Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources notes that "self-published media — including but not limited to books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, personal or group blogs, Internet forum postings, and tweets — are largely not acceptable." Facebook is essentially a forum posting. There are limited exceptions for sites by an article's subject: For example, the Gerry Conway article can use writer Gerry Conway's blog to footnote personal claims — but you couldn't use his blog to footnote anything else.
- I hate to be the one to say this, but under notability guidelines, if there's not much information either online or in offline books and magazine/newspaper articles about a person, that person may not fulfill the criteria for inclusion. I believe that Harris Levey's co-creation of and years-long association with a long-running character for a major comics company, especially at the dawn of the medium's creation, makes him notable and worthy of inclusion. The remainder of his career is certainly notable in a personal and professional sense, and to be much applauded; I'm not sure how much of it can be included without more articles and such about him.
- Take a look at the two policies/guidelines I link to in this post. If nothing else, it's help you focus on what Wikipedia requires in the way of citations. Let me know if you dig up any more sources. --Tenebrae (talk) 19:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks Tenebrae. Very helpful. I understand now that Harris Levey is notable for his Airwave illustrations, especially since they were done in relatively large volume and at the threshold of the Golden Age of comics , and that, as you have pointed out, the Air Wave character has stood the test of time. I did believe that added information about an illustrators activities and interests prior to and subsequent to the period in which they were noted for (in this case DC Comics Air Wave etc.) would have served the purpose of showing his life thread and how one event (or artistic involvement) might have led to anotehr event (ie. success in the advertising field. In any case, I am very please with what currently is left of the article as I believe it gives the fair weight to what is of prime signiciance (and most verifiable) which is his illustrations while ad DC comics (in particular , Air Wave). I hope the the peripheral information that comtes after this experience will remain, and I am in the process of trying to contact the various ad agencies where he worked to see if they have a 3rd party source to prove his success in these areas (ie. a company's official web site with a list of past employees). I realize now that the interview article on him that was done at Foote Cone & Belding and highlights much of his advertising career, was published in an in-house newsletter that liekly was not sold to the general public (but might have been --so I am trying to check that out as a verifiable source). Again many thanks Tenebrae for your timely thoughtful and Wiki-centred efforts to turn this article into an article that meets the primary Wiki criteria. Respectfully, Jonathan Levey (talk) 00:59, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Hey This is just a note from me the founder of the Spider-Man work. You don't have to withdraw to the group just becuase you're not good at tagged edits. All you have to do is being interested in editing in Spider-Man type articles every once in a while and making them better. That's all. You can do that in the small things too. 777 00:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification JHenderson777. I do appreciate it. However, I realize, now, that my time is much to limited to make any contributions at all (at this time). Should my situation change, I will be glad to re-join and provide editing/proofreading related input, which I seem to have some degree of skills in. However, in the meantime, I will simply have to bow out and benefit from your thoughtful work and further modifications as they continue to unfold and enhance the current body of work on this valuable subject. Thanks for your understanding in advance. Keep up the great work! Jonathan Levey (talk) 00:20, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
- We are aware of your limited availability, but just want to encourage you to not withdraw. We aren't expecting a lot from you. Just a friendly request to do what you can when you can. It's nothing big and if you don't do anything we won't be mad at you at all. All we ask is for you to take a look if you get the chance. If you see a problem, try to fix it. Nothing big. No pressure. Spidey104contribs 13:26, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
License tagging for File:Harris Levey (aka Lee Harris) at art table circa 1940-43.jpeg
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License tagging for File:Photo 4 Harris and Weisinger Art table.jpeg
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To add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Wikipedia. For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 06:06, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Please help me to contest the deletion of this photo
Unfortunately, I have spent hours trying to learn hoe to upload a photo given to me by the owner/author onto th page of Harris Levey (comic illustrator), bu obviously did not rage the image correctly. As a result it is pending immediate removal. I request the help of a knowledgeable wiki editor to instruct me step by step on how to properly tag this photo so it remains posted on the page. I must have checked the wrong boxes off when making the upload, about licensing, etc. I really could not find the right boxes to check to indicate that it is a photo that is in my possession, that I one as I was given it as a gift by the now deceased owner. Please help me in any way you can, so as not to force removal of the photo. I want to respect the rules and regulations of wikipedias, but because I am not a regular contributor and not tech savvy, I have trouble understanding and soloing the tutorials to add this image. Thank yo for your genuine concern and willingness to understand the situation and to help. JonathanJonathan Levey (talk) 13:43, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of File:Harris Levey (aka Lee Harris) at art table circa 1940-43.jpeg
A tag has been placed on File:Harris Levey (aka Lee Harris) at art table circa 1940-43.jpeg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the image is an unused redundant copy (all pixels the same or scaled down) of an image in the same file format, which is on Wikipedia (not on Commons), and all inward links have been updated.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. ww2censor (talk) 10:42, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
License tagging for File:Harris Levey Art table.jpg
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