User talk:Kafka Liz

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This user is no longer very active on Wikipedia.


I strongly believe you're owed an apology. You've been editing here for years, are an incredibly strong editor, and you are a person. You are your own person and for this community to condone that insult toward is beyond anything I can accept. I could say a lot more, but wanted to post to your page tonight. I am so very sorry this happened to you. When Maria (Yllosubmarine) got fed up and I left a pic of a strong drink on her page, so consider yourself owed the same. I'm more than a little upset to see the black tag on your page, but do understand. Take care and best. Victoria (tk) 00:43, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

I have no idea what happened but this is terrible. Kafka Liz, precious: I miss you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:15, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

  • I'm surprised to see this, too; like Gerda above, I have no idea what's happened and it is both saddening and terrible to see a "Retired" banner here. I hope everything's okay. Acalamari 11:36, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
  • You're the best.....we need you...Modernist (talk) 12:05, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Better late than never. Here's a nice Merlot (with two glasses for two editors). If your ears are ringing it's because I mentioned you on my talk - I know, I know, I did the pingie thingie, but it's nice and polite to stop by. Plus I wanted to deliver the promised drink. Take care. Victoria (tk) 23:29, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Very sorry if this is the case! I missed any row. All the best, Johnbod (talk) 03:38, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Hi Liz, I want to add my name to say that you'll be badly missed. This is a difficult place to spend time on, so I won't say that I hope you return, but I do hope you stay away only if you want to, not because you feel you've been driven off. All the best, SarahSV (talk) 22:13, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Precious anniversary[edit]

Three years ago ...
Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg
visual arts
... you were recipient
no. 440 of Precious,
a prize of QAI!

Thank you for the agreement to have music instead of visual this Easter, that was so kind. I was music written about in memory of those who lay in death's bonds, and in collaboration with Thoughtfortheday. Weekends here will be drier without your ping-pong-chats ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:57, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for being around again! I nominated your latest FA to be shown, Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Crucifix (Cimabue, Santa Croce). I remember you giving me music, - today "mine" is The Lord is my Shepherd, - listen if you like it. I started a stub on the conductor to whom it was dedicated, and received thanks already. Now I feel I have to expand ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:28, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Almost didn't see this. Many thanks, Gerda, and that is a lovely song. I wish I were better versed in such, so I could at least return the favour. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 22:08, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
I just came across another great "song", well, not really a song. Article (not by me) needs work but I'm tired ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:14, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
Four years now! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:39, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

I finally pick up your message from last year[edit]

And find you have retired. Quite right, it's boring here. Yomanganitalk 17:14, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

I'd be lying if I claimed not to have checked in here. I do want to thank all of you who have left kind words - it means a lot to me, and I appreciate it. I've met some amazing people here, for which I am grateful. Thank you all again; your support means more then you know. Best, Kafka Liz (talk) 21:37, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't chime in Liz. More than likely I would have said something rather unacceptable to Admin ears. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:17, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Family editing[edit]

Per [1], your spouse has edits to 8,801 pages. Let's call it 10,000 for round numbers, and assume those are all articles. That means there are, in fact, 5,383,807 articles you can independently edit and comment in without the provisions of WP:FAMILY applying. No one is denying your value to the project, nor the value of your opinions in dispute resolution; I'm simply saying it would be best if you operate independently of your spouse, or, if you chose not to, accept that your position will not be considered as an entirely independent one for the purposes of determing consensus. NE Ent 21:53, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

NE Ent, I am not at all sure that consensus supports your opinion on this. Regarding your remark (the one about "spouse") that began the recent upsets, I don't recall seeing any editor saying they found your remark appropriate. I could be wrong.MPS1992 (talk) 22:11, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Please see discussion Wikipedia_talk:Sock_puppetry#Sexist.2C_discriminatory_language_in_WP:FAMILY. NE Ent 22:19, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
I have posted five times in that discussion, so I am not sure why you think I would be unaware of its existence. MPS1992 (talk) 22:38, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

@NE Ent: do you hav any idea how incredibly patronising and offensive this sounds? It comes across as both demeaning to (a) any spouses/partners editing who may actually enjoy each others' interests and take genuine pleasure interacting with their partners and (b) the likes of you dictating to content editors like some sort of servant about what and how they should be editing. Seriously. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:10, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Furthermore as per that policy, I supremely doubt that anyone would have considered The Cloisters a controversial topic, nor infact about 97% of what Kafka Liz or Ceoil edit. If you had some empathy, you might have noted that three content editors are feeling pretty angry and upset at the moment, so inflaming the situation with "observations" such as above come over as....not really conducive to dispute resolution...Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:15, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

  • Unbelievable that we are having this conversation in 2016. The only thing that needs to happen is that people who edit from the same IP need to disclose that fact so they don't get wrongly accused of sockpuppetry. Anything more is ridiculous; people who live in the same house are no more or less likely to agree on a particular WP article than relatives who live on opposite ends of the country —or two users who simply share a common interest and have never met at all save on-wiki. To say that spouses are "one voice" or "one entity" is medieval. I am stunned that we even have to have this discussion: Wikipedia_talk:Sock_puppetry#Sexist.2C_discriminatory_language_in_WP:FAMILY Montanabw(talk) 05:21, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
    • Agreed with both Montanabw and Casliber. The sole reason the provision about treating family members as one even exists is to stop people from making up little brothers to bolster their arguments and be able to get away with it because oh, of COURSE they share my IP! that's my little brother! It's not to make independent contributors who happen to be related into second class editors who have to split Wikipedia's articles and say "this is my half, this is yours" so the powers that be won't decide their voices mean nothing. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 05:33, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

New RFC dealing with WP:FAMILY section of WP:SOCK[edit]

FYI: Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.

Views are wanted at Wikipedia talk:Sock puppetry#RfC: Should WP:FAMILY be deleted from WP:SOCK?  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 09:02, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm genuinely uncertain as to whether I ought weigh in there. Let me think on it. Kafka Liz (talk) 12:24, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
You can only weigh in if I allow ya! Or something :) Also thanks for the edits on the c. 1265 Cimabue Crucifix, I'm going to edit there again later tonight, might get steamy, could use some back up, wink wink :) Ceoil (talk) 21:14, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


I was hasty. I was wrong. I apologize for applying an overly literal interpretative of Wikipedia policy to a context where it didn't apply. NE Ent 09:38, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Apology accepted. I am sorry things spiralled this way. I think there is much to be gained by remembering that there are actual human beings behind the words on a screen, and that talking to them helps. That's all. Kafka Liz (talk) 14:41, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
We-ell, now yer back, some folks with some musical pedigree are needed at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Courtney Love/archive3 - I was never a big Love/Hole fan and am not familiar enough with her to be confident we ain't missing something....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 15:02, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
I'll take a look, but overall, I was never much of a fan of Ms Love, nor particularly one of her Mr. Ceoil might be of more help here, and then I'll come clean up the spelling. Kafka Liz (talk) 15:10, 4 April 2016 (UTC)


My laptop has the dead. Tablet not easy. Stay tuned, superheroes. Kafka Liz (talk) 21:10, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Ground control to Kafka Liz, checking laptop and may gods love be with you. chugchugchugchugchug. This is Ground control to Major Liz, youve really made the grade, but your laptop's bangaxed, can you hear me...Major...Liz....<pop> Ceoil (talk) 23:32, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
Rumours of its death appear to have been greatly exaggerated. That said, it is still a bit wonky. Kafka Liz (talk) 08:39, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 10[edit]

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Not a way to have fun?[edit]

Not a Three Dog Night fan? --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:32, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Ah, the vid won't play in Our Fair EU, but good point. There was a special on tv about Tom Jones the other day, so this was the first thing that popped into my head. Call it a perfect storm of bizarre circumstances. Kafka Liz (talk) 05:24, 23 April 2016 (UTC)


Dont laugh but have just discovered a category of songs formerly believed rubbish, but on examination might be actually be ok[2]. A 10cc ballad, for example. Ceoil (talk) 22:22, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Cannot load this? Kafka Liz (talk) 00:36, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Moar 10cc, this time dedicated to our hyperactive, break all around him, beloved, kitten.[3] Ceoil (talk) 22:38, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
We do have substantially fewer coffee mugs, but sure, it's not that sad. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:31, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

The Cloisters[edit]

Thanks you for the very well judged copy edits.[4]. Ceoil (talk) 22:27, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Lovely, and strangely, not known to me. Liking and listening. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:35, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
( Ceoil (talk) 01:06, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
Because [5]. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:09, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
Here tis Ceoil (talk) 08:59, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
Wow. I have nothing so good to offer in return. Seriously, anything I can think of would almost be an insult. Kafka Liz (talk) 09:11, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

Thats right, yeah like[edit]

Never gets old. All he was trying to do was get a bit of cheese. Tis awful sad, no? Ceoil (talk) 21:20, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

'Tis an awful world we live in, now. But can ye try it bit less Cork? Kafka Liz (talk) 21:25, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Less Cork? Certainly not, my bore. What are you, some sort of jackeen. Ceoil (talk) 22:13, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Boring and a jackeen? Clearly I'm doing something wrong. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:17, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Still love you enough for a song. But barely, son. Barely. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:23, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
bore = doll, so there is that. Jackeen = Dublin, about the worst damn thing you could accuse a human about. Like. Ceoil (talk) 22:45, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
I know what a jackeen is. I think there's a user here whom I respect immensely who is both female and from That Place, so it's a term I'm hesitant to fling around. Kafka Liz (talk) 23:01, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
In the meantime, transvestites are watching your auntie. Kafka Liz (talk) 23:08, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Smarty pants. High in BC is from Dublin?? Figures. Ceoil (talk) 23:24, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Puir wee lassie, alas. Kafka Liz (talk) 23:57, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
[6]. There are reason the 80s seem quaint and distant. That title, whf!!! Ceoil (talk) 00:07, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Now now, be kind. And 1984 also had this. Kafka Liz (talk) 00:18, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Indeed it did. When was hot for Teacher, perhaps the best song of the 80s not recorded by a-ha. Ceoil (talk) 00:28, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Doorway from Moutiers-Saint-Jean[edit]

Cheers for the edits, much better now, and with 98% less spelling errors. Co-nom for DKY? Ceoil (talk) 18:28, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't believe I've done enough to accept a co-nom honestly. I would encourage you to, though. It is a great article. Kafka Liz (talk) 18:31, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
Have u noticed all the improvements to The Gearagh today? Ceoil (talk) 18:42, 14 August 2016 (UTC)


I stopped by here last weekend but didn't save my edit. I also meant to stop by a few weeks ago and ask if you're interested in helping on Austen (it would be fun, but the fun got knocked out of me). Now I'm just stopping by to say hi. I have nothing else to offer. Oh, the Queen of Katwe is a good movie about a place that's interesting - my most interesting piece of news these days. Take care. Victoria (tk) 18:28, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

I am always grateful for a discreet personal message. I hadn't heard of this film, but it is one I'll seek out. Have new book recs, for what that's worth. Kafka Liz (talk) 19:15, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
I hadn't heard of the film either (had to be dragged to it) and apparently not many other people have because the cinema was empty. I think, or at least hope, it's a sleeper. Yes to new book recs; I'm always running out of books to read. Victoria (tk) 19:44, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
Well, I got a bit fed up with the Justin Cronin trilogy - ultimately a bit too humourless. Right now I am reading His Bloody Project, by Graeme Macrae Burnet. No hesitations in recommending this one. Author creates a very credible Victorian voice - almost as good as Sarah Waters. Kafka Liz (talk) 19:57, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the recs; I'll look to see whether the local library that no longer believes in books might possibly have those, otherwise I'll have to go on an Amazon shopping spree. Still trying to piece together Cronin's full trilogy. I might be in the mood for that now. It is getting fairly good reviews. Victoria (tk) 20:28, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
If you havnt seen "The Fall", its highly recommended - basically Prime Suspect in Belfast, starring Gillian Anderson as the lovely Helen Mirren. I'm told the main dude is very hot, "for an Irish guy", haha (bloke out of 50 shades). Tis better than it sounds; extremely dark. We are on our second watch. Ceoil (talk) 09:52, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
Yes, well worth a watch. And the serial killer guy is pretty hot, despite having a beard. Kafka Liz (talk) 10:48, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
[Fume]. What is with you and these serial killers. Spare a thought for us ordinary decent criminals. Ceoil (talk) 11:08, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
The Juwes are the men...shit, wrong page. Kafka Liz (talk) 11:22, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Back to the original post, I'll take a look, but I can't promise anything. I hear all too well how this place is no longer fun. Kafka Liz (talk) 11:26, 16 October 2016 (UTC)


I'd be on for rewatching S04e01 again. But let me check if ep 4 of The fall is out. Two minutes. Ceoil (talk) 13:50, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

If you wish. Kafka Liz (talk) 13:57, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

Scale of justice 2.svg Hello, Kafka Liz. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)


Alahambra2 Alicatado.JPG
AlhambraD 16 (6997088343).jpg
Because, and wishing you a tolerable new year, to wit some pleasing Islamic patterns. Ceoil (talk) 06:33, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Best wishes for the holidays...[edit]

Gerard David - Adoration of the Kings - Google Art Project.jpg
Season's Greetings
Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! Adoration of the Kings (Gerard David, London) is my Wiki-Christmas card to all for this year. Johnbod (talk) 10:26, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy Holidays[edit]

Season's greetings!
I hope this holiday season is festive and fulfilling and filled with love and kindness, and that 2017 will be successful and rewarding...Modernist (talk) 23:13, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Happy Hogmanay![edit]

Hogmanay supermarket booze.jpg Happy Hogmanay!
Wishing you and yours a Happy Hogmanay. May the year ahead be productive and harmonious. --John (talk) 21:24, 31 December 2016 (UTC)


Looks great! Congrats. And apologies for stepping in when you were pinged earlier in the week. Happy V. day to you and your man (a bit belated!). Victoriaearle (tk) 03:04, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Ditto.  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 03:25, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for the painting with "a lot more bubbling underneath the surface, given the apparent empathy in this man's expressive face", also for your own empathy. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:04, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, all - been away for a long time, and I'm probably not really back. Thank you, Vic, for stepping in, and to everyone else who helped (catching up on this), and thanks to all three of you for the Valentine's wishes. They are reciprocated. Kafka Liz (talk) 17:19, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
And thank you Liz, for all the help making sense of the translations. That wernt easy. Ceoil (talk) 10:31, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Crucifix (Cimabue, Santa Croce) scheduled for TFA[edit]

This is to let you know that the Crucifix (Cimabue, Santa Croce) article has been scheduled as today's featured article for 14 April 2017. If you're interested in editing the main page text, you're welcome to do so at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/April 14, 2017. Thanks! Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:33, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Good to see it today, thank you! "A complex, physical and lifelike thirteenth century crucifixion scene by Cimabue. It is badly damaged now, after flooding in 1966. But its raw impact remains, and it marks an important break from the Byzantine style. Francis Bacon, who didn't give praise lightly, held this as one of his favourite old master works." - I added passion to the page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:44, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Thank you both :). Kafka Liz (talk) 15:56, 14 April 2017 (UTC)


It's hard to assume good faith with your most recent edit to the BMPL article. If you know how Wikipedia works, it's that the organizations have their logos in the infobox. This is consistent among library articles. It doesn't matter how "ugly" you think the image is, or how promotional you think its content is. If you don't think an organization's official logo belongs on the organization's Wikipedia article, then you have a very serious misunderstanding of Wikipedia. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 03:56, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the condescension - it is always appreciated. The fact is that the image remains intact while the advertising logo is gone. Unless you're getting money for this, why is it an issue? Kafka Liz (talk) 04:04, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
The BMPL is a village entity, it doesn't really advertise, and as you can tell from its dated website, it doesn't even have anything resembling a media/marketing department/staff member. And what do you mean by "the image remains"? I photographed the image currently used, while the logo you removed uses a different image, the one you can see on its website. I again stress, as you can read on my userpage, that I volunteered to write about 20 articles about Briarcliff Manor, this being merely one of them. Contact whoever you want in Briarcliff, it's a small community. The village manager, trustees, historical society, or library could back up my statement here. Contact the library by phone or email here and they'll also tell you that File:Briarcliff Manor Public Library logo.jpg is their official logo, same as File:BPL Seal.svg, File:New York Public Library.png, or File:BritishLibrary.svg. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 04:11, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
You are missing the substance of rational from the first FAC. Not ready, not good enough, not sure how much protective clothing that could be dressed enough in to keep you happy. Ceoil (talk) 04:28, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
What I mean is that there is still a picture of the library. I don't feel the corporate logo is appropriate to an encyclopaedia in this context, is all. I do not doubt your good faith here, honestly, that's all. Kafka Liz (talk) 04:25, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
I read wp:logo and admit your advertising/significance arguments have merit, and I wish and hope the BMPL designs a better logo for that reason. I included it to be comprehensive in covering aspects of the library, and still feel it is relevant and that wp:logo should be changed slightly. You do have a guideline on your side, I'll give you that. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 04:30, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for listening to me. I am a librarian myself, and I do get the conflict between trying to be comprehensive and being seen as advertising. I personally don't see what was removed as being seriously relevant to the article - which is very comprehensive, in all fairness. I do think the article is better without the logo because it looks more neutral. The logo makes it look like advertising; do you see where I'm coming from? Kafka Liz (talk) 04:39, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
I do and I honestly appreciate that. I would really like if you could help me work with Ceoil in such a rational fashion; our conversations have become so heated, he's now making complaints about much of my work, and trying to make my FAC fail no matter the cost, it seems. We're not able to agree on anything, at all, so these conflicts or any interactions between us are nowhere near constructive. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 04:45, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
It is very late/early my time, but I'll take a look after some sleep. I am always glad to help a fellow librarian if I can. Till after, Kafka Liz (talk) 05:05, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

tfa congrats[edit]

Nearly all the work of others, but thanks :) Kafka Liz (talk) 15:54, 14 April 2017 (UTC)