User talk:Kburton

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Hi, I've moved your addition to Mute Swan to History of Mute Swans in the United States. The reason for this is that it only refers to the US, is written from a US perspective, and no attempt has been made to integrate it with the rest of the article. Although it is unsourced, I've assumed good faith with the content, although the lack of verifiable references may lead to deletion if not remedied. Hope this helps, jimfbleak 17:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I can only refer to the above - your article does not give verifiable sources, and makes no concessions to Wikipedia being a global project. If some or all of the article is original unverifiable research, that is also deprecated.
Either the article can stand alone as at present, and take its chances with deletion as unsourced, or it could be condensed, wikified, formatted, and integrated with the rest of the article. jimfbleak 18:07, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Deleting other's work[edit]

Please take care not to blank out someone else's comments as you did to my note re Tercel etymology on jimfbleak's Talk page - it is considered vandalism. You should also format the title of your comment by putting two = either side of it. I have done this for you. Secret Squïrrel 03:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Mute Swan[edit]

The only problem with your addition to Mute Swan was that it was just a text dump, written from an American perspective (it's not non-native where I live) with no effort to integrate it into the rest of the article or format at all. I therefore felt that if you wished to keep it in its dumped form, it would be more appropriate as a subpage, History of Mute Swans in the United States. Unfortunately, this was deleted at 00:33 on 29 January 2007 by Alex Bakharev with the reason copyvio from

If you recreate, make it clear, perhaps on the talk page, that you are the copyright holder, and give verifiable references on the article page, jimfbleak 15:17, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

just click on the link above, or go to his his talk page jimfbleak 17:43, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I have no means of contacting Alex Bakharev (he has been editing today, so can't see why a problem) - other than as above. I've been through the text and cleaned it up - note that the convention on Wikipedia is that bird species are capitalised. It's still a bit clunky, but it's better. I suspect that the text will be OK now, but if there is any problem with copyright, any admin should be able to fix it (I'll soon be away for a couple of weeks).

There is an article for Trumpeter Swan, but if you wish to add to that or any other article, you don't need anyone's permission. Thanks for the holiday wishes (no new swans to see I'm afraid though). jimfbleak 20:30, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

i am trying to reach kburton.. no luck at the email address noted in user page.... please update contact or point me in the right direction ...

i see that the normal fly territory of mutes is not available on wiki... i see nesting habitat of 3-15 acres.. i think there is a need for further info... if you can add to this, it would be appreciated...

Hi, Kathryn, as I said before, there is nothing to stop you adding anything to any article as long as you reference it. You don't need my permission or anyone else's to add valid material. jimfbleak 14:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Fossil North American swans[edit]

Hi, please see the talk page of Mute Swan. First, the theory that these fossils were "ancestors" of Mute Swans is I think not accepted by any paleontologist today, but I may be wrong (we have a fossil record from Eurasia which - quite literally - fits the bill much better). Does the Anza-Borrego paper explicitly state that the fossils they discuss are closer to the Mute Swan than to the Olor swans? I have put a reference there which you might find interesting; it might just be that the evolutionary hypothesis for swans would have been overturned in the last 3 years (again), but I think I would have heard of that. The link I have provided is quite adamant that the fossils discussed therein are not at all related to the Mute Swan as swns go, but are closer to the Whistling & Trumpeter (and may have been an ancestor of these), and this is very consistent with all recent work on swan evolution available to me at present (which only includes a summary of the Anza-Borrego work, sadly.) Dysmorodrepanis 15:16, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Avian Paleontology Record:

Miocene, Pliocene and Pleistocene fossils ( 20 million to 10,000 years ago) discovered at various sites in the United States represent Cygnus paloregonus, a Mute Swan genotype found in Fossil Lake, Oregon in large numbers. These fossil swans were “very similar to, but somehow distinct”from Cygnus olor, the Mute Swan (Cope 1878) (Coues 1887) The distinction was primarily size. Later work hypothesised by Bergmann (1847) and proven in Baird’s extensive collection at the Smithsonian, provides a reason for the size difference within a species, dependant on a number of things, but primarily altitude, latitude, temperature, inland and coastal humidity (Lindsay, 1993)and of course food availability and climate extremes. This would account for a size difference in the same species of bird from modern United States and the Russia/Siberia coast in avian fossils over an entensive period of time. Migrations from that area, by swans, continues today.

Analogous Pleistocene fossil swan material was discovered at Hagerman Fossil Beds National Monument. Pierce Brodkorb of the University of Florida described a specimen, later dubbed Olor hibbardi (Wilson Bulletin (1958) 7(3): pg.237). It is a Mute Swan homologue (Bickart 1990), (McDonald, 2001).

California studies have found additional Cygnus paloregonus fossils in the Anza-Borrego Desert (Jefferson,2005).

Eventually, Cygnus paloregonous became exceedingly rare and may have persisted in small pockets of unexplored parts of the continent” (E.Pielou,2001) This pattern also describes the history of another swan in America, a swan that was found with Mute Swans in Fossil Lake, Oregon, the Trumpeter.


Thanks for the email, I can't see any major problem with your recent edits, so I'm not sure what your concerns are about. Good faith referenced edits are always OK, although obviously other editors may have different positions on controversial issue which they must also source.

You can always contact other editors through their talk page, which they always have. Wikipedia email addresses are not compulsory, and are not available to unregistered users anyway.

To add an image, just go to the upload file tab and follow the instructions. Make sure that give the source, and that you choose the right licence. Images that do not have a source or licence will be deleted. if the image is out of copyright, there is a tag for that, if its your own, chose GFDL-self from the list. Hope this helps, Jimfbleak 06:01, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


Happy New year to you too - I'm in the middle of a major edit of Chiffchaff for FA, but I'll look as soon as I can Jimfbleak (talk) 17:05, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

looking through your recent contributions, I can't see where you have uploaded the John White image Jimfbleak (talk) 09:18, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Jim,I have approval from British Museum, the piece is long out of copyright, and sent the email, with contact name there, etc. as well as uploading the piece, but I still can't get it onto the page.I am just no good at wikiing, I guess.

I've gotten excellent review on my paper from big deals in the bird world here, like Alan Feduccia, U of NC; Rufus Churcher,prof emeritus at U of Toronto; Roland Clement, former head biologist for National Audubon and writer of many books on birds for that group as well as the USF&W.

The White picture came at a time the state announced a new program of killing, but they didn't expect the roar from the public, so I've been in newspapers and the Associated press all over the country and including the NYTimes, for which I have been asked to do a 600 word op/ed. Now, if I can only get that picture onto the Mute Swans page... My friend who knows how to do such things went to Australia, to photograph birds and won't be back for a month. (User:Kathryn Burton/Kathryn Burton)Kathryn Burton 19:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

well done with the swans, you didn't overwrite anything, just rememberthat you can sign automatically with four tildes ~~~~ jimfbleak (talk) 07:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I'm just back from nine days birding in Morocco, no swans needless to say. Your project seems to be going well, not sure why you have had problems adding to the article jimfbleak (talk) 11:09, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
I'll have look in the morning, no time now. Things can always be retrieved if necessary jimfbleak (talk) 18:01, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
You can sign messages automatically with four tildes ~~~~. I've run through the last 18 months of the history, and I can't see any any large-scale removal of text. Can you give me a date. Alternatively, open the history at the appropriate date, copy the deleted text, and paste it into the current revision. jimfbleak (talk) 07:02, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I've been away for a couple of days, so just seen your message. Send me an email through Wikipedia, and I'll reply so you can send the paper or send it direct if you still have my email address jimfbleak (talk) 15:18, 3 May 2009 (UTC)