User talk:Keeper76/Archive 14

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What do you have to do to get someone kick off of being a Administrator.Melissarreynolds (talk) 20:19, 4 September 2008 (UTC)Melissarreynolds

Oh, I'm pretty sure Keeper already gets a kick off being an administrator. He doesn't need any help with this. ;-) Who were you thinking needed an additional kick?  Frank  |  talk  01:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Well said, Frank. Keeper ǀ 76 14:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

im fine with keeper i dont like Esanchez013 Melissarreynolds (talk) 16:07, 5 September 2008 (UTC)melissarreynolds

Why not? - Adolphus79 (talk) 16:09, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

He is a kid in high school and he would delete my changes without even looking at them, i know that there is real age limit to who can be an administrator but i think there should. i got another administrator to help me do my changes so everything go worked out but i did tell him that if the changes would not have been made because of him he would have go pulled into court because there are already lawsuits going on and he thought i was treating him and keeper told him it wasn't a legal threat but i said it to warn him that someone else might take him to court and legally can. i think he is too young and immature to be an administrator. Melissarreynolds (talk) 16:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)Melissarreynolds

UM what? Keeper said what? Where? Who? You've completely lost me. I'm not aware of ever working with you or Esanchez in the past. Keeper ǀ 76 16:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Ah, found it on User talk:ESanchez013. From August 1st. Replying to a {{helpme}} tag. Melissa, you need to move on. Even insinuating that someone here, an anonymous editor, is going to get "pulled into court", is a borderline legal threat, and could lead to your account being blocked until retracted. I'm not about to block right now, but that was over a month ago. Move on to new things please. Keeper ǀ 76 16:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Looks like there's a disagreement of some sort so the answer is, apparently, to complain about the messenger, rather than actually trying to figure out how Wikipedia works. (The user in question is not even an administrator, best I can tell.)  Frank  |  talk  16:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Why can he change my changes then? i am new here but her treated me like crap. from now on i quess i will just think Wikipedia makes up there own information, doesn't care what the people who are right there know and let kids make up history. block me i don't care. i wont be trying to make your information correct you can give false information to whoever you want, but that little bratt needs to be kicked off, i'm pregnant and emotional so stop being so insensitive. Melissarreynolds (talk) 16:23, 5 September 2008 (UTC)melissarreynolds

Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. - Adolphus79 (talk) 16:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Im going to delete my account now but why is his name on the administrator list if he is not one??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Melissarreynolds (talkcontribs) 16:33, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

No need to delete your account. What administrator list is he on? (Which "he" are we talking about?)  Frank  |  talk  16:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Nowhere on ESanchez013's page does it say he is an administrator, nor does it say so in the userright's logs. Keeper ǀ 76 17:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm with you, Keep. It may be that Melissa thinks that once information is put in, only an administrator can take it out. (Not really sure.)  Frank  |  talk  17:13, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm equally baffled by this. ESanchez was quite polite, I thought, to melissareynolds, from what I've read. This is apparently, all over the 'ownership' of a ghost town in the backwoods of America. Silly, really. Keeper ǀ 76 17:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Two days, no vandalism

Apparently, the Republican convention is ruining you. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 23:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

The twins have lost 4 in a row. If it turns out you're right, and I'm wrong, I'm blocking you indefinitely. You should be cheering for the Twins....Keeper ǀ 76 14:24, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

My talkpage has 6 threads about Sarah Palin, not including archives.

Now seven. So depressing. This is the last one. I will not be responding to anyone, anywhere, anymore regarding this article. It will stay on my watchlist, it should be full protected, we should f***ing get over ourselves and close the ridiculous arbcom, and we should all take one of Jehochman's mooseheads. Here's mine.

Moosehead.png The Sarah Palin Honorary Moosehead
I, Jehochman, award User:Keeper76 the Sarah Palin Honorary Moosehead for contributing to the protection, unprotection, protection, and so on..., of the Sarah Palin article, as indicated on this log. Jehochman Talk 02:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

See, apparently, the article has lots of traffic. I wonder why? A vast majority of the traffic is from POV pushers from both aisles of American politics. I'm not one of them. I'm not a POV pusher (I've been accused of being a radical leftist and righty-tighty this week). I'm a Wikipedian. I care about what Wikipedia looks like. A request (more of a desperate plea) for help came to AN for full protection to "calm the waters" of that article. I full protected it, for a relatively short time, to offer a break so discussion could happen on the talkpage. I don't need a f***ing lecture about "this is a Wiki". So what. This is also a top-ten website. I protect several pages, all the time, if they are being abused and if people are talking over the top of each other and continually reverting each other. I didn't protect the talkpage. I didn't break Wikipedia, I protected its integrity. Anyone who wheelwarred for unprotection, based on some absurd "this is a wiki" argument is rather shortsighted. I'd be very curious to know/see if any of those that unprotected unilaterally have ever protected a page, and on what grounds. This is a wiki after all. I'd also love to know if any of those that unprotected unilaterally have ever even contributed to the article or attempted to reason with the POV pushers on the talkpage. Sickening. I'm done with it. Keeper ǀ 76 14:14, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Hear, hear. Fritzpoll (talk) 14:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Seventh Eighth thread

Who the hell is Sarah Palin, and why is everyone talking about her here? Must be the new Paris Hilton. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 14:30, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Dammit, I shoulda known better than that. Dammit. Allow me to start the next...Keeper ǀ 76 14:35, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
This really looks like it was an excellent week for me to not be on Wikipedia. :D ~ mazca t | c 14:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Yup. Keeper ǀ 76 14:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I'd rather talk about the Twins. I believe we need to start an article 2008 Minnesota Twins losing streak#Sarah Palin's responsibilty. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 16:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
You'll notice that's now a bluelink? Don't mess with the keeper of the wiki....Keeper ǀ 76 17:30, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Oh great. Now every Sarah Palin freakshow stalker is going to drop crap on my user talk page. So, Keeper, I see how you work. You're so freaking lazy, you induce vandalism on my page through redirects. That's just plain evil. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 17:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
What, you mean you don't want 15 concurrent threads about a republican governor from Russia that likes goldfish? And I see that GlassCobra already deleted it. He's now on my keeper's-gone-rogue-block list. Keeper ǀ 76 17:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Why wait. Apparently he has no sense of humor, and should be indef'ed on that basis alone.  :) OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 18:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Ninth thread about Sarah Palin

Ninth thread about Sarah Palin? I'm sure the MOS says something about empty sections being frowned upon, and if it doesn't, it should... Therefore, I feel it imperitive to edit this section to include at least some semblance of text... - Adolphus79 (talk) 16:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if Keeper will block us all for vandalizing his user talk page? Go Twins (in the hope of preventing said block). Wait a minute. Go White Sox. I want to be indefed. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 16:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
No worries, OM. I'm keeping an offwiki list of all the admins/wannabes that I will be indef blocking upon my rogue farewell spree :-) Keeper ǀ 76 16:58, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Just warn me, because that might be the most fun ever. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 17:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Sa-weet! - Adolphus79 (talk) 17:59, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Tenth thread. Something about her husband perhaps? Maybe her dog?

Well, I heard that her dog is actually her daughter's dog and it's being hushed up by the CIA. It must be true, I read it on Wikipedia. Eva Destruction (talk) 16:24, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

LOL!!!! Keeper ǀ 76 16:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

11th thread. She's actually a Russian, I read it online

Technically, Alaska used to be part of Russia, and there's some doubt as to the date on her birth certificate... (should anyone think no-one would make an argument this dumb...) Eva Destruction (talk) 16:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

(ec)No, she's Alaskan... but if you consider the history of Russia, Alaska, and the land bridge, I'm sure there is some kind of a connection that is simply being hushed up by those silly Wikipedia admins... - Adolphus79 (talk) 16:27, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

What are you talking about? She's an alien from the 12th Centaurian galaxy. Wikipedia is all about facts. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 16:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
All hail Xenu! - Adolphus79 (talk) 18:01, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

12th thread. Her 4th grade teacher is soooo notable! They interviewed her!

 Clerk note: The above user's vote does not make sense... he/she/it will only vote if he/she/it recieves a block, which would effectively remove said vote, effectively reverting said block... - Adolphus79 (talk) 18:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
So you're saying something on this page does make sense? Just wondering. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 18:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

13th thread "She bought a goldfish from my pet store. Can i haz article?

Nobody explained to me what's her deal yet? –xeno (talk) 16:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Well the Daily Kos says she only bought that fish so she could SHOOT IT AND TORTURE IT. Eva Destruction (talk) 16:29, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
  • never mind, i understand now she's involved in some kind of RFA or something. –xeno (talk) 16:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


Just for those who still claim that Wikipedia doesn't need a {{globalise}} template slapped on the main page, this is the entire edit history of SP's UK equivalent. The talkpage is a breath of fresh air, too. –  16:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

See? and that's the whole reason that a church that she once went to needs it's own article!!!! - Adolphus79 (talk) 16:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Is it bad that I'm British and have never even heard of this guy? Tombomp (talk/contribs) 17:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
If it means you're not a tory, that's a very, very good thing. – ιριδίζων 17:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I'll admit I'm not the biggest fan of the Conservative party. :) Tombomp (talk/contribs) 17:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

11 - 5

My boys love to win ugly. It's still early, so I'm thinkin they'll get they're mojo and timing back as the season progresses. Our special teams continue to be suspect and luckily for us last night, the Skins secondary have terrible hands. Our red zone offense also sucked. But I'll take the win. I don't understand why they let Eli throw it 35 times a game when our three headed monster is so effective. I'm just happy football is back. Especially since baseball was cancelled. --Endlessdan and his problem 16:24, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

perhaps the better question -- why weren't they using Bradshaw last night. He was getting itchy on the sidelines. Nice turnout last night, and see declaration of war below. Baseball has not been cancelled until they're eliminated. TravellingCari 16:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Ward is the Giants 2nd tailback. He only lost that job cause of injury. For now, Ahmad is just fine returning kicks and as an "in case of emergency" back. It's only his second season, so bringing him along slowly is a-okay with me. And baseball might as well be cancelled. Wait till MLB gets a load of the ratings this year with out the Banks. --Endlessdan and his problem 16:51, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
MLB gets a load of the ratings this year with out the Banks sorry I don't speak TV, what's that? I admit, I was primarily watching the Giants last night and often flipped first to USA for the tennis, especially once I saw the 5-0 score. Love my Yankees, always will, but this has been a painful season. Ward's great and to quote my coworker, a 'Skins fan, Jacobs is "a bulldozer". It's just odd to be to watch Ahmad on the sidelines. In case of emergency, back. I like that. I liked what I saw out of Kevin Boss last night -- answering announcers' questions about where they'll miss Shockey -- I don't think they will. I'd apologise to Keeper for the OT -- but at least this isn't she who should not be named. TravellingCari 16:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I wasn't too impressed with Boss. He's no Shockey... at least when it comes to blocking. I really like Smith. I think he will supplant Amani as the Giants "all purpose" WR. He has fantastic hands. He is what I had hoped Sinorice would be. --Endlessdan and his problem 17:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Agreed re: Smith, he's got the goods. I just hope it lasts the season. Shockey, well I liked him about as much as I like A-Rod. I don't think they need him and I think him gone is one less distraction. I know people are comparing Shockey's departure to Tiki but Eli war aside, Tiki was a much stronger presence and a bigger loss -- yet they won after he was gone. Shockey may be a net net, but he's no loss. TravellingCari 17:06, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I like the "like him as much as I like A-Rod" analogy. Don't get me wrong, I would have traded Shockey sooner if we could, but he is a far superior blocker and was a bigger concern for opposing defenses then Boss is (for now). --Endlessdan and his problem 17:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm so glad I could introduced you two. I'm tired of the orange message bar, and unless someone starts talking about an interesting, non-new york, non-overpaid, non-underachieving team, I'm going to kindly request this moves somewhere else?. Great! :-) Keeper ǀ 76 17:39, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I hate football, I hate any New York team (whiny bunch of pathetic snobs) (ooops, except for the Syracuse Orange), and I particularly hate the New York Yankees. I rarely agree with Keeper, but in this case, he's right.  :) OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 17:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Hey jealousy. --Endlessdan and his problem 17:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Fine, we'll take our ball and go home. Hmph! TravellingCari 18:28, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


uh oh ;) TravellingCari 16:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Last game of the season eh? Let's hope it's meaningful for one team or the other. Should be fun. If you, me, and Endlessdan all survive Wikipedia that long, I'm sure we'll have some nice conversations, filled with pleasantries and idle threats. Be forewarned E-dan, I have a block button. Surely TCari, biased by her NYC fanaticism and blinded by her POV, won't wheel war against me to unblock your fine self. Keeper ǀ 76 16:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm all for meaningful games -- far more interesting that way. I don't know too much about the Vikings depth this year, but it would be great if it's meaningful for both. Giants are, knock wood, looking solid this year. I like their defense. I'm not worried about the only TD being on the opening drive, they found ways to score. That's what mattered. TravellingCari 16:57, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


Post made to me at 19:00 on my talkpage

Good. AN/K rulz! =D D.M.N. (talk) 18:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

 Done - Request fulfilled. =) D.M.N. (talk) 18:12, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


Sarah Heath Palin is an anagram of "Alpine trash, ha ha". Just saying. – yanardöner 18:14, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


And Sarah Louise Heath Palin is "Ah, I hail our elephant ass". –  18:18, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

This one has to be the best. Synergy 18:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
This is why Tommy Flowers invented the computer. – переливающийся 18:24, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I must know what tool you're using irid. I must.  :-) Keeper ǀ 76 18:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
[5] –  18:41, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Excellent. George W Bush, by the way, equals "Oh, we rub eggs". Just sayin. Keeper ǀ 76 18:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

18--but only marginally related

Who's bringing the beer. I haven't had this much fun reading a user talk page in months. I may as well sit my ass down with an icy one. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 18:24, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Alright, enough with this sillyness... I'm trying to be productive, and all I can see is this damn page at the top of my watchlist... I don't even know what the hell is going on with the rest of teh Wiki... you Keeperpedians really need to go find somewhere else to play... I'm sure AN/X or Penis needs someone's attention... - Adolphus79 (talk) 18:27, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, while we're on the subject, did you know that Sarah Palin used to have a... – iridescent
BAH! see... there it is, at the top of my watchlist again... how am I supposed to keep up on all of the activity and vandalism at Şoimari with all the vandalism here? (Yes, Special:Random FTW!) - Adolphus79 (talk) 18:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


Sharia plan – iridescent 18:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

That's it... I'm reporting you to the administrators... - Adolphus79 (talk) 18:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
This post, mine (unless of course edit conflicted, is the 109th post to my talkpage today. As a right-wing nutter, and a left-wing operative, I've successfully diverted attention away from editing Sarah Palin related article(s). My work here is done, and there are still 5+ UTC hours to go before the day is through. Keeper ǀ 76 18:42, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


Anal parish – 무지개빛깔 18:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Has anybody commented on your ever-changing signature yet Tombomp (talk/contribs) 18:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
It's ever-changing? –  18:59, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


Good lord, will you stop making new sections? You're going to kill Mizcabot. Keeper ǀ 76 18:48, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Your misspelling of Misza just made me realise I need a bot account just for the sake of a confusing name. ~ mazca t | c 00:45, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


A hellish euthanasia pro – iridescent 18:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

23 – I can keep this up all night

Sarah's Health Plan, i.e. IOU. – yanardöner 18:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


Keeperpedian = Pained Keeper (I guess that one fits), or A Pee Peed Rink... hmm... - Adolphus79 (talk) 18:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

25 - OK, I'm getting bored now

Push a hairiest anal hole. – yanardöner 18:53, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


[6]--Endlessdan and his problem 19:00, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


Aha! ANI shithole perusal... – переливающийся 19:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


The bot can't archive the Yankees' next championship! TravellingCari 19:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I hear Sarah Palin is a Twins fan. However, I might have WP:SYNTH'ed that. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 19:56, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

You utter,utter bastards

You should all be ashamed, Wikipedia does not exist for TPS twuntishness. Seldom have I seen so much shite in user space. RMHED (talk) 19:29, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

/pwn Shapiros10 contact meMy work 19:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Y'all better watch it. I'm about ready to do a full protect on this page.  Frank  |  talk  19:37, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

If a thing's worth doing, it's worth overdoing. –  19:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I agree completely with RHMED. So much shite. I'm so tired, and my ribs hurt. This is exactly what I needed today. Keeper ǀ 76 19:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
This page has been flooding my watchlist all afternoon and I finally bother to read what's going on... you people are mad (per RMHED)! –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 19:53, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
It's my own personal goal to keep my talkpage higher on your list, at all times, than ANI and Sarah Palin. Keeper ǀ 76 19:56, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I took Sarah Palin off there a while ago... –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 20:09, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I commented on the talk last night, thus watchlisting it. I sign on today, and my watchlist is COVERED with Talk:Sarah Palin. Unreadable. Enigma message 20:10, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Have you tried checking the "Enhanced recent changes (JavaScript)" box in Preferences under Recent Changes? It's a neat little tool for organdizing watch-listed pages.  Frank  |  talk  20:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Thread that isn't about Sarah Palin

Can you keep half an eye on this AfD, which is chock-full of SPAs on both sides? – ιριδίζων 19:37, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

it's interesting. I have the language packs for most of your sigs -- but your all boxy in this one. TravellingCari 19:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Huh. Usually, I only see boxes, but this time, I can actually see the characters. Keeper ǀ 76 19:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
So what does it say, oh wise one. I can't change the language packs here. Probably would display fine on my baby. I don't know how to do a fancy sig. I need to change the colour of mine but for whatever reason <font color="Purple"> accomplishes its goal here but not in my sig. Thant and it's not the "right" shade TravellingCari 20:14, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I didn't say I could read the letters, simply that I could view them, in all their curly-Q glory. And don't change your sig color. I'm a huge fan of the bugzapper blue. The purple probably shows up weird elsewhere because "purple" is the default color for a link after you've clicked on the link and viewed it. Or I'm smoking a doob. Keeper ǀ 76 20:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I'd prefer Yankee blue, but I don't know the code for that either. Did I tell you the story of trying to explain that colour when I got my tat done? Makes sense re: purple but *pout* does this work I wonder? TravellingCari 20:59, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Whatever you want, I obviously can't change it, but LOL, I really really like the bugzapper blue. IMHO, 2 cents, etc. Keeper ǀ 76 21:01, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Damn I eced and it never posted. That was "violet", no -- it's pink. Bah. Problem is I "lose" myself. Need to find a way to make it bolder. Like GFDL below TravellingCari 00:40, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Iridizon? Yes, I can muddle my way through Greek. Jclemens (talk) 01:14, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

The Thread Not About Sarah Palin Number 2

Keeper76 will be happy about this. I mean not happy for the injury, just that the Sox might be in trouble. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 20:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

OOOoohh, that is good news. Crede and Quentin out? What could be better? I'm desperately hoping that my bullpen savior returns soon. Rumors abound of a mid-September arrival.....Keeper ǀ 76 20:11, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Can someone explain the title, White Sox lose 100-RBI man Quentin for at least 2 weeks v. the text which says he's out for the season? TravellingCari 20:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I think it's a minimum of 2 weeks, but in reality, the rest of the season. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 20:28, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Or perhaps they have foresignt to think the Sox's season won't last that long? Either way, it just read odd TravellingCari 22:32, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Keeper is probably celebrating nevertheless. I didn't know his voodoo doll worked so well. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 23:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

29, I guess

I'm not sure what an Iced Insert is, but that's what Iridescent scrambles to. Also scrambles as "Secret ID in", confirming my cabal suspicions, as well as several entries that contain the word "erect". Hmm. Keeper ǀ 76 20:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

With "shithole" and "anal" in there, poor SP never had a chance... – yanardöner 20:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


just to note the pagename update. –xeno (talk) 20:27, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

{{Talk:Sarah Palin}}. Dare you to remove the tl|... – iridescent 20:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


My current top 11 items on my watch list:

13:34 User talk:Keeper76 (diff; hist) . . (+268) . . Iridescent (Talk | contribs) (→30!: ...) 13:34 Talk:Greenhouse gas (diff; hist) . . (+364) . . William M. Connolley (Talk | contribs) (→36%: reply) 13:33 Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR (diff; hist) . . (+316) . . Bentecbye (Talk | contribs) (→Bentecbye reported by Caspian blue (Result: )) 13:32 Talk:Sarah Palin (diff; hist) . . (+368) . . Classicfilms (Talk | contribs) (→Book Banning: r) 13:32 Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents (diff; hist) . . (+2) . . Noroton (Talk | contribs) (→RFC: fix heading, make it a subheading of Weatherman heading) 13:32 User talk:Jaysweet (diff; hist) . . (+813) . . Jaysweet (Talk | contribs) (→Nell Rankin: I'm so pissed) 13:31 Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement (diff; hist) . . (+769) . . David Fuchs (Talk | contribs) (→Duration: leapfrogging on previous commetn) 13:27 Estonia (diff; hist) . . (0) . . (Talk) 13:27 New antisemitism (diff; hist) . . (+575) . . Gzuckier (Talk | contribs) (→History of the concept: tooka whack atit) 13:26 Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration (diff; hist) . . (-67,292) . . AGK (Talk | contribs) (→Current requests: Moving "Sarah Palin" RfAr content to Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sarah Palin protection wheel war.)

All Sarah Palin all the time. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 20:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Thread of interest

[7]. Shapiros10 contact meMy work 20:41, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Keeper-pedia has a 9th rule

unfortunately she who will not be named is the reason why TravellingCari 21:03, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

LOL!!!! Keeper ǀ 76 21:07, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


An irrational number seems fitting. Basil "Basil" Fawlty (talk) 21:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

LOL???? Keeper ǀ 76 21:07, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
This was... perfect. Pleased that I'm starting a CS/Maths degree in one month :D Alex Muller 22:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Go to your happy place...

...and let me buy you a Name.jpg.

Leave arguing with Jossi for another day. It's Friday, I inexplicably didn't get fired today, I'm about to go home and sleep for 14 hours. Life is good, and too short to argue with people. --barneca (talk) 22:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm an idiot. Shapiros10 contact meMy work 22:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Shapiros10's mental state notwithstanding, thanks for teh beerz. I went away yesterday, and as advised, partook. My head hurts. When the F did the sun get so shiny? I don't remember it being so shiny....Keeper ǀ 76 13:38, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

More Beer...

Name.jpg My dear friends and fellow Keeperpedians,

I offer you this frosty pint of homebrew, for all of the effort you have put into the serious discussion involving Sarah Palin here on AN/K...
instead of on Talk:Sarah Palin...

- Adolphus79 (talk) 22:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Mmmm. tastes good at 8:39 am. Keeper ǀ 76 13:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I ♥ Wikipedians

Do you mind if I completely steal that tidbit you have on your page? Zell65 (talk) 23:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Help yourself! Keeper ǀ 76 13:30, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

So many questions

Resolved: replied on Moni3's talkpageKeeper ǀ 76 13:36, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I've been asked to protect Metro Station (band). In looking at the history, it does seem to get a bit of IP vandalism. Am I able to do this, or should it go to request page protection? --Moni3 (talk) 01:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

  • You most certainly can do it, you just need to use your best judgement as to whether it's justified or not. RMHED (talk) 01:21, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
    • Personally, I wouldn't feel entirely right semi-protecting that article - it does see a reasonable amount of IP vandalism, but it also seems to receive quite a few productive edits from IP editors, and the level of vandalism is far from being overwhelming. But, being as I'm not an admin, take my opinion as just that. You have to weigh the value of new/IP-user contributions against the amount of IP vandalism, really. ~ mazca t | c 01:25, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
      • I'm not an administrator either, but I'll give my opinion nevertheless. That article is not a candidate for protection; the level of vandalism is nothing out of the ordinary. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 01:32, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Agreed with Malleus. The vandalism seems about ordinary for a currrent popular band. GlassCobra 07:34, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

A funny for your funnies collection

here. Bishzilla's vote was too good not to use. TravellingCari 05:51, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

LOL, that's excellent! I've closed a few debates as "delete" in my time, but never felt that any of the dying articles looked tasty enough to eat. :-). Feel free to update. Keeper ǀ 76 13:35, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Done, I'd not have thought of it, but we know Bishzilla is an evil instigator :) Her comment to me on her talk is also amusing. re: this entry, my favourite is still Xeno's. Damn vandals trying to do the impossible. Happy weekend! TravellingCari 17:05, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Help needed

Howdy, I'm posting to AN/K to see if one of the 40 TPS' could look into a matter that I can't handle. At my talk page Abd (talk · contribs) and Bidgee (talk · contribs) got into a lengthy discussion User_talk:MBisanz#User:Bidgee, problem is that I was too involved with each of them separately to do anything. Now apparently User_talk:Bidgee has retired because of the issue. Could someone uninvolved look at the matter and try to keep us from losing a good editor like Bidgee? MBisanz talk 00:41, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Abd got into a lengthy discussion? Say it ain't so! – iridescent 01:05, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I hope you understand by my purposeful silence that I am avoiding this, and will continue to do so. Nothing personal Matthew, but I cannot objectively deal with Abd yet. Keeper ǀ 76 16:19, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Best edit summary ever

Sarah Palin Kuwait 19.jpg

 15:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

God of alaska....Keeper ǀ 76 15:39, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, my son? Protonk (talk) 15:42, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
LOL! Keeper ǀ 76 15:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
How am I going to find all things Sarah Palin, if I can't find it here? You actually want me to read the article? You should be desysopped for poor judgement. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 15:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
We don't desysop people for poor judgment. We sysop them. Those with "good judgment" never make it through RFA...Keeper ǀ 76 15:57, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
The same principle applies to US elections. – 무지개빛깔 16:09, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I really am close to my limit of the number of public domain pix of the Governor of Alaska I will accept here. If you would have told me 2 weeks ago that my talkpage would be barraged with pictures of one of the best looking governors in US history (well, besides this hottie anyway, I would have called you a fool. Keeper ǀ 76 16:16, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Dunno. Mitt Romney is kind of hot in the "I wonder if that guy ever poops or if he just glows with self-satisfaction" sort of way. Protonk (talk) 16:20, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Protonk, you just made my funnies with that one. Spot on assessment. Keeper ǀ 76 16:24, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Eager to please. I was going to link to dave letterman's list of one liners about Mitt Romney with a different line, but I thought of that one. Ahh, there it is, it was on Gawker. Enjoy. Protonk (talk) 16:34, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Sarah Palin Salvation Army.jpg
Hey, I won't believe you when you say you wouldn't. While I'm here, just a general note to any TPS's who may have missed it that Wikipedia versus the God of Abraham makes some Very Important Points We Should All Bear In Mind. I'm sure SP would approve of the general thrust. – переливающийся 16:34, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Hey, Sarah Palin went through the trouble of getting a passport to take that trip to Kuwait last year. The least you could do is welcome photographic documentation of it on your user talk page. It's apparently the only time she's been overseas, so there shouldn't be too many more photos taking up space here. MastCell Talk 16:38, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, why would anyone need to go overseas when there's so much to see and do in Alaska? –  16:40, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Sarah Palin Kuwait 18.jpg

clearly not Sarah Palin

←Setting aside the metrosexual attractiveness of Mitt Romney (and yes, I've often wondered if he pooped), Mary Landrieu, being both a Democrat and hotter than that Alaskan fascist, has always been my favorite. Almost thought about moving to Louisiana to vote for her. Of course, that being Louisiana, I'm not sure actually moving there is necessary to vote. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 16:44, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Mary Landrieu? That staff photo of hers looks like its right out of the back of the yearbook from Saved By the Bell. Keeper ǀ 76 16:47, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

After seeing that on my watchlist, I just wanted to point out somewhere that I reviewed my talk page and archives, and since I registered on June 13, 2006 I have achieved a grand total of 37 threads. (This does not constitute an invitation to offload AN/K traffic to a less abused page!). Jim Miller See me | Touch me 19:05, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

You could be like me and have half as many threads, but all of them ten times the length, if you'd prefer. – iridescent 19:07, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
You should be proud of that Jim! It means you're here for the right reasons, unlike some of us...  :- Keeper ǀ 76 19:08, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Hey! It's not my space, it's Sarah Palin's space. – iridescent 19:26, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I would love to see an MFD of this talkpage per WP:NOT#SARAHPALINSPACE. Heh. Keeper ǀ 76 19:28, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Have you noticed the improvement to the Wikipedia logo, BTW? – iridescent 19:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
So what's next on the vandalizing Keeper76 effort? I'd mention that the Twins have no shot, but he's going to block me for that. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 20:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I think I've done my part: if you go to Whizzinator and click "What links here", you will see that User Talk:Keeper76 is right up there. MastCell Talk 21:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
MastCell, you lightweight. That's cotton candy compared to some of the shite that Iridescent has linked here. My talkpage is "What-Links-Here-Porn". Keeper ǀ 76 21:08, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
And no, i didn't notice the logo. L. O. L. Keeper ǀ 76 21:09, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Bot dead?

If not, it's on life support. ouch!TravellingCari 16:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

You realize you just started a second thread in a row on the exact same diff? What, the Yankees despair setting in? Lost to the Mariners? Who have a pitcher named Putz? Irony much? (he said after losing 2 of 3, at home, to one of the worst teams in the majors... ....Keeper ǀ 76 16:20, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
You expect me to read the whole of the Keeper-pedia? Pfft. :p I just saw the bot edit on my watch list. Feel free to upmerge. This weekend was a lousy sports weekend, yes my Giants won but Nadal goes down in the semis, Serena winning the Open, Muts losing 2/3...Yuck. I think everyone forgot how to play. I still won't give up until they're mathematically eliminated but they're making it hard not to turn it off. Honestly with the way Tampa is playing I think best case is let the Sox have the AL East, Tampa continues its free fall and we fight for the wildcard. TravellingCari 16:43, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
All I know is that my talkpage is getting extremely slow to load. <insert Letterman joke, likely about McCain, here...> Keeper ǀ 76 16:49, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
BTW, the only good news in minnesota sportsland is that the vikes are currently undefeated. They play their first game tonight. And I'm cheering for Murray at the Open. Not much of the me-likies for Federerererer. Keeper ǀ 76 16:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Wow, we agree! :) I wanted a re-match of Wimbledon on another surface. I also think Nadal/Federer would have been a much better match. I'm afraid Murray isn't going to be a challenge for Federer. I'll root for the Vikings tonight because I _hate_ Green Bay, but you're on your own next week. I think the pics are killing your talk page. TravellingCari 17:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Nadal is a punk. I was disgusted when he won Wimbledon and couldn't take the damn trophy out of his mouth. I stood up and cheered at the TV when Murray beat him. Federer is a true champ, and that's why New York loves him. GlassCobra 17:22, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Heh. Patriots. Go Brady, go! Keeper ǀ 76 17:24, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Typical Keeper tactics: change the topic when he's beat. :P GlassCobra 17:30, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
No worries Glassman. I'm sure Cassel will be fine. Just fine....perhaps Bully-check should fire up the old camcorders, get back that "competitive edge?" Keeper ǀ 76 17:31, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Right, right. Taping one practice that was completely irrelevant to that week's game is the only reason that the Pats were undefeated. That's totally it. GlassCobra 17:50, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
If you believe him that only one practice was taped, I've got a bridge in brooklyn to sell you. Also, 18-1 ==/== undefeated. :P Protonk (talk) 17:55, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Undefeated, except for when it mattered. *cough* 18-1 *cough* Federer is a punk. Been there, done that. Time for a change. Same reason I didn't want Serena to win. Murray beating Nadal, walkover for Federe. That's boring tennis. Brady wants attention. Moss is feeding it. TravellingCari 17:56, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Hey, be easy on Moss. He has a logical reason for being so disappointed in not finishing a record breaking, and an (almost) perfect season, with a superbowl win. It wasn't his first time...Keeper ǀ 76 18:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
And then the whiey ass boycotts the ProBowl. Class act that team is. His soundbite today in the elevator news, "Everytime I heard a cheer I looked at the Stairs to see #12" Newsflash, Moss: the whole stadium doesn't care about BRady's antics. Yes, I hope he isn't seriouslu hurt but the lot of them would enjoy ANI. Drama wh0res. TravellingCari 18:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Am I the only one here that is grateful to live in a state that does not have to deal with "elevator news?". God bless Midwestern lateral sprawl.....Keeper ǀ 76 19:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I <3 elevator news, it kills time when I'm waiting for_ever_ for the doors to close because some jackass pushes the button. That and we (at the office) have the world's slowest elevators. No e-news or muzak in my building. I want this West Coast swing over -- not because of playing the Angels, but 10p starts kill me. TravellingCari 19:39, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) So Keeper, how'd that rooting against Federer thing turn out? Oh right. :D And Cari, how is Federer a punk? Tell Nadal to take the damn Wimbledon trophy out of his mouth, then talk to me. GlassCobra 02:23, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I'll find the article, he was running his mouth like a certain Wide Receiver. Don't know if I can track it tonight. he's just grading. Punk might not be the best word. Tired and mouthy better. I will say he's got talent but a foregone conclusion is not a good tennis match in my book. It was over by the time I got home from work and I work in the same time zone. TravellingCari 02:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Any opinions on this...

...user page, which I thought we decided was inappropriate? I'm not taking this to wider questioning yet because I don't want to start a big wikidrama at ANI if it's actually ok. (I'll just start a little miniwikidrama here instead.)  Frank  |  talk  18:56, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I asked Guy. He was working with the good doctor previously. Keeper ǀ 76 18:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


Just want to say I'm very flattered, and would love it if everyone else could post lots and lots of picture of me here, too. – Sarah palin signature.svg 19:15, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Blocked in 5, 4, 3, 2.... Good for the laff, though. :) Protonk (talk) 19:19, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

28--Best Sarah Palin Joke

John McCain's VP pick is the governor of Alaska, a unknown hockey mom named Sarah Palin that no one ever heard of. The only other job she had in politics was the mayor of a small town known as Wasilla, Alaska, and now she has the opportunity to be on a ticket opposite of Barack Obama, the first black man she's ever seen.–Bill Maher

Well, as a Left Wing Pinko Nutjob who has pretensions of being a conservative Republican whackjob, I thought it was funny. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 20:00, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

God, that is funny. My talkpage hurts. Keeper ǀ 76 20:01, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I just got sent this. No clue whether it's funny or not because I actually have no idea about US politics at the moment, but whatever... Alex Muller 22:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Hey, Wikipedia is not a social networking site… but ignore the policy and don’t stop with the good jokes. This stuff helps when you’re sitting around editing math articles. I’m a former political cartoonist, starting with Iran-Contra and ending up in Monica Lewinski’s dress, so I’m a partisan against all of ‘em. (Palin’s husband is part Eskimo, by the way, and McCain adopted a girl who is so dark he was accused of an affair with an African- American in a smear campaign against him.) EricDiesel (talk) 16:04, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

In all honesty, there are plenty of places in Alaska that don't have many black folks (there were 2 in my 1200 student high school), but Wasilla's close enough to Anchorage, and hence Fort Richardson. Army folks, who come in all colors, get sent there on a regular basis, and thus she would have seen more black folks than I did growing up in a town where the U.S. Coast Guard (which is subtantially whiter and more boring) was the only military we got. Jclemens (talk) 01:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Humor--for the 99.9% of the readers who don't live in Alaska, it's funny. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 01:48, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Right. Was just explaining that most black folks have too much common sense to move to the frozen north--only those who sign up with Uncle Sam get subjected to it. :-) Jclemens (talk) 01:58, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't get many talkpage threads that use the phrase "black folks". Kudos! Keeper ǀ 76 13:41, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
I dunno, I may not be politically correct, but it seems friendlier and a lot less stuffy and formal than "African Americans". I've actually never heard a person with African ancestry refer to him- or herself as anything other than "black"--even a firefighter candidate who told me in his oral board that part of his motivation was that there weren't enough black firefighters to inspire black kids. Jclemens (talk) 17:52, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
I agree - certainly over here in the UK the correct word definitely seems to be "black". I've never seen the problem some people have with it, given that it's a simple describing word rather than making any unwarranted assumptions about cultural heritage - not all black people are of African origin. And the joke there's certainly snappier if you have a one-syllable word to use. ;) ~ mazca t | c 18:08, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Not to do anything serious on Keeper's user talk page (which I'm sure violates the TOS of this page), but there are many reasons that cause people to use racial terms and stereotypes. Many are psychological. Some propaganda (wars are always good times to make fun of your enemy). But I have a personal belief that every group gets to self-identify. If African-Americans choose to identify themselves as such (and no, there is no vote for that, it just becomes a cultural standard), then that's what we do. I will sometimes use the term "black" but "black people" sounds more than just politically incorrect, but gives off a demeaning implication. I'm Jewish, and there are cultural reasons why I get hostile and fairly retaliatory if someone identifies me as a "Jew Wikipedian." Actually, I'd be offended on so many levels if someone said that, I'd go overboard. At any rate, the joke isn't about blacks. It's really about Alaskans. For the 99.9% of the readers here who have not been to Alaska (although Keeper lives in Minnesota, which is a bit like Alaska, except without the oil, volcanoes, tundra, the Deadliest Catch, and caribou), making fun of Alaska may be a full-time job for the next few months. Then the McCain/Palin ticket will be destroyed by the Democrats, and we'll never hear of the state again, unless we need oil. Yeah, I'm cynical. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 18:12, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
I agree with everything here, mostly. Except the part about Caribuou. We most certainly have Caribou here. In fact, we had the first. Keeper ǀ 76 16:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Being to both states, I'm not sure who has the larger and more annoying mosquitoes, black flies, and another biting, blood sucking insects. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 17:27, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Heh. That's the problem with 10,000 lakes (and actually, there are over 14,000, but we're modest folk...). The lakes all have shallow areas aka breeding grounds. We've had temps in the low 40s recently at night, killed all but the hardiest of them off already. The bugs I mean, not the modest folk. Keeper ǀ 76 17:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Mahala Ashley Dickerson, Alaska's first African-American lawyer, from Wasilla! Pretty cool. EricDiesel (talk) 02:18, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Can anyone help?

I am trying to identify the subject of this photo, who does not appear to have been the subject of any commentary anywhere. Is anyone on this page in a position to assist?


Many thanks! – iridescent 22:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

You mean in the top left with the horns? It looks like Odin Svaåalbaard from Dutch, but I could be wrong... MastCell Talk 22:28, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I was thinking of the one on the end of the bleacher who appears to be wearing a circa-1985 Madonna outfit. – ιριδίζων 22:30, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Looks like my ex-girlfriend. We were into the Viking fantasy thing. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 23:53, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
duh. It's some lady at the Ren fair. Protonk (talk) 00:47, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
It appears to be an unfortunate woman being eaten by a jacket with massive, furry lips. While being indifferently watched by callous vikings. ~ mazca t | c 00:48, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
That is one strange coat. Is it two beavers kissing? How could she not have noticed that two beavers had climbed up her back and were kanoodling in the area of her décolletage? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 02:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
I think she's being felt up from behind by a very short Wookie. – iridescent 02:05, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
... with very long arms. By George, I think you've cracked the mystery! --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 02:32, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
That is, without question, the correct answer. By the way, until I broke it by editing this page yesterday, I had a long streak with the second and third most-edited user talk pages (after my own) on my list at 200 and 100 edits apiece. This was 200. Enigma message 05:08, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
ROOOOOAAAARRRR!! GlassCobra 07:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Kinda makes me ashamed to be a Vikings fan. Keeper ǀ 76 13:29, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Really? That makes you ashamed to be a Vikings fan? Onterrio Smith getting caught at MSP with the Original Whizzinator and some dried urine didn't do it for you? :) MastCell Talk 06:06, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, I certainly learned something new today. Basil "Basil" Fawlty (talk) 01:21, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
And somehow, I never knew about Mr. Smith either. Hmm. That's hilarious. Keeper ǀ 76 15:41, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
There really is no feeling to compare with the satisfaction of teaching two such intelligent and educated people something that they didn't already know. Even if it involves a fake penis and urine dust. MastCell Talk 16:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I can see how Palin seems like she is being felt up by a short wookie with long arms (that made me lol), but it seems to me she's leading a rousing chorus of "Spam, spam, spam, spam", or at least announcing her intention to purchase the brass corset worn by the hard-nippled (no doubt) Alaskan vixen on the bottom bleacher. On to pillage the Renaissance Fair! Huzzah!!! --Moni3 (talk) 14:45, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Never thought you'd hear me say THIS, didja Keeps?

but...ADMIN ABYOOSE OMG. (Not really, but somethin' here ain't right, big-time.)

Here's the situation, which is all based on this thread (warning--goes so far beyond the bounds of "tl;dr" as to make a normal person's head asplode); I'll give you the short form.

  • Einsteindonut and Puttyschool got into some kerfuffle about a comment made by Puttyschool--Einsteindonut found it anti-Semitic, P-school denied that it was.
  • Admin Fayssal tried to mediate it.
  • E-donut wasn't having it, and started going off about how the whole WP world is just crawling with antiSemites and all other manner of worm. In the course of this screed, E-donut brought up some IP edits involving swastikas, etc--totally beyond the pale, it goes without saying, but HERE's where things go wrong:
  • Somehow, user Nobody of Consequence gets his/her name dragged in, because apparently they edit on the same IP range that did the swastikas. NoC denies being that IP, several times.
  • Regardless, and due to the insistence of E-donut, admin Fayssal blocks NoC for two weeks, with this as the explanation.
  • NoC requests unblock--unblock is declined. NoC posts at AN/I under an IP; IP is blocked, NoC is Checkusered, block is upheld.

Now, I know NoC. NoC, as I know him/her, is no vandal; he/she is a good editor, and I would be shocked into insensibility if the hate-speech had anything, ANYTHING to do with him. NoC, of course, is justifiably PISSED, more so now that his unblock has been declined and checkuser has "confirmed".

I have a really, REALLY hard time believing this isn't some weird Checkuser malfunction or something--honestly, I'm never going to look at Checkuser results the same way again, in light of this. Meanwhile, NoC has retired, and that really, really sucks--we're losing someone who I've always encountered as a good editor, and meanwhile we've got two users (three if you count the vandal IP) who seem to be here to Defend THE TRUTH, who are filling up miles of space on AN/I. It just doesn't seem right to me.

I was originally going to post at AN/I, but it didn't seem like that would add anything but drama. Keeper, is there anything you can do/say/find out about this issue? If I'm wrong, I'll eat a nice big plate of crow; but I just don't feel good about how this thing went down. (Views by fellow TPSers are also welcome.) Gladys J Cortez 20:38, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

GjC! I was just thinking about you (no, really!), wonderin' what had come of you. I was watching my son's "new favorite show of all time" (dear God, let it be a redlink...), it's called Boohbah. Pronounced Boob-ah. (how did that name make it out of test marketing?). Absolutely one of the most bizarre, trippy shows I've ever seen, at least of those that are geared towards 2 year olds. Have I successfully changed the subject yet? I'll read some stuff. That's really an uphill battle all the way. I'm not familiar with NoC, although I've seen the name around. I do know that whenever anyone sees the "Checkuser confirmed" checkmark, all sanity be damned, it's confirmed. Doesn't help that the blocking admin is an arbcom member. Uphill battle. No comments on the merits at this point, I haven't read any of the links you've given (but read a bit on AN/I previously without commenting). Keeper ǀ 76 21:13, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Mostly I've been working, coping with RL (kickin' my butt, right at the moment) and drinking solidly. Oh, poor soul--your youngun has discovered Boobah. (And no, of COURSE it's not a redlink, silly boy! even Ozie Boo! isn't a redlink...) The amount, quality, and effectiveness of the drugs that were consumed during the development and creation of "Boohbah" simply cannot be underestimated. Farting, squelching, chirping furry THAT's educational! (And don't EVEN get me started on the Story People...) Whatever the writers and producers were taking, I devoutly hope it's kept in a locked cabinet under armed guards. Or, at least, that they'd be willing to mail me some. (And I still think you need to turn Little Keeper onto Yo Gabba Gabba!--the show with the giant anthropomorphic schlong, and the little stripey green dude that keeps yammering about "There's a party in my tummy!".) Anyhow, thanks for looking into NoC and that whole sordid just doesn't fit. It's every bit as surreal as Boohbah, to me.Gladys J Cortez 22:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
The problem with IP addresses is that they aren't always personal data. My home broadband has a fairly stable IP, but if I switch off everything and go off backpacking for a few weeks I get a new IP address when I return. More seriously if I log in via work I'm sharing the same range of IP addresses as everyone else on that network, so its theoretically possible for an editor to use an IP address one day and a vandal to use the same IP address an hour later. Hopefully the Checkuser team have the good sense to check if an editor has a consistent IP address and not hold Editors with inconsistent IP addresses responsible for any vandalism by their work colleagues. ϢereSpielChequers 07:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Sarah Palin Thread Number 35 (give or take)

Actually, this is a serious question. Aren't we defeating the purpose of Wikipedia but making edits by proxy through admins? Where is it written that admins, as a group, are better editors than me or, zout alours, User:Kelly? I think this protection and making edit requests by proxy through the talk page is genuinely censorship by a cabal (a word we shouldn't use, but it's true) of admins. I know you admins don't have a secret fraternity that vets your political opinion, but why should you and others decided if her ability to make Moose jerky is notable, important or not? I know if you unprotect the article, you'll have to deal with edit-warring and vandalization, but I've been watching the Evolution article for 5 years or so, and I don't think anything has happened (including being on the main page) that couldn't be handled by good editors and admins. I think what you admins are doing with the Sarah Palin article is setting a horrible precedent, where you are creating a super-class of editors called admins. This isn't right. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 23:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Yanno, OM, as much as I'm inclined in principle to agree with you, here's the thing:
--We've given a certain trusted class of users the ability to make judgements in re: what's best for the 'pedia.
--As with every controversial article, the Palin articles have clearly attracted a bunch of people who are less-invested in the good of WP than they are in their own opinion of a given political figure--who have, in fact, proven this time and again.
--If, by giving this trusted class of user--i.e., admins-- the ability to act as a filter between the "real" (sourced, NPOV, worthwhile) edits, and the "junk" (BLP-violating, non-NPOV, crap-from-one-side-or-the-other) edits--and even if we're forced by circumstance to do this by adjusting the notion of "anyone can edit" on a given subset of articles over a given period of time--anyway, if we can preserve the principles of WP by handing this "filter" function over to a class of trusted users, especially on such a high-profile article...I don't see so much where, long-term, that's a negative thing. Eventually, the interest in Palin will dial down a notch; in the meantime, this protection thing seems only to be a noise-filter, so to speak.
Again--in principle, I agree with you; personally, I am amazed by the turbulence surrounding this issue. But then again, POV-pushers have always been a strange breed to me, so maybe I'm just too idealistic to understand the relevant issues. Anyhow, all the usual disclaimers apply to the above: my $0.02, IMHO, YMMV, and the whole package. Gladys J Cortez 08:11, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
OM, are you volunteering to watch the SP page for POV/vand? That page is the highest trafficked page on Wikipedia, right or wrong (right or left?). Where does "Evolution" rank? The full protection was warranted, the wheel war was of course incredibly stupid. I was the first to place full protection on the article, very very reluctantly, because I agree with you completely that it creates the illusion of cabalism. Had the wheel war not ensued, the protection I placed would have expired on it's own, yesterday. FWIW, the article is now semi-protected, and will likely remain that way at least through the elections, and probably after if the McPalin ticket wins. Keeper ǀ 76 15:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Evolution ranks quite high on traffic, because it's so controversial (not scientifically, of course). Semi-protection is fine. That means registered editors can edit away. And yes I watch the article. I gave up doing anything, because I got edit-conflicted to the point, I was screaming at the computer screen. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 18:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Any opinions on this too?....

I need a totally uninvolved admin to take a look at User_talk:ThatsGrand#Blocked. You came to mind via your work with Malleus, and I trust your judgement. Could you spare a few minutes to take a look (though there is a page of evidence linked in the block template that is critical)? :) --Jza84 |  Talk  23:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

How did I get roped into this? It's absolutely nothing to do with me. I'm starting to feel like some sort of specimen that gets pored over by the so-called experts. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 23:48, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Actually... seeing as you're here, do you have an opinion too Malleus? Wouldn't want to be accused of elitism... yet! :S --Jza84 |  Talk  23:50, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I do have an opinion, and it's this. I don't want to be dragged into petty spats that I couldn't care less about. Wikipedia is full of crap, what difference does a bit more or less matter? My primary objection though was to the phrase "your work with Malleus". I don't recall ever working on an article with Keeper76, so that sounded to me like a reference to some kind of wikitherapy, which I considered insulting. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 00:04, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Calm... I think this was the "work with Malleus" in question. – iridescent 00:07, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Yikes! Bad choice of words on my part... I suppose a "connection with Malleus", but, really, I was hoping to focus on the sock, I didn't think that'd be an issue. :S --Jza84 |  Talk  00:12, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm just a bit tetchy, seeing insults where none were intended. As you say, let's focus on the sock. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 00:19, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Not guilty! :(
You're right though - too many petty spats, which is why I've spent all day trying to block these stupid endless sockpuppets to get back to editting. --Jza84 |  Talk  00:23, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
My worry with you, Nev1, and DDstretch (amongst others), is that these kinds of petty spats will take over your editing time. Time will tell I suppose. Anyway, I'll now leave this discussion to you big boy administrators, :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 00:32, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
It's my worry too, believe me. It's been a tough week or so with Yorkshirian, the Nimbley troll, User:Wikipéire and another oddball screaming their loudest at me (metaphorically), begging to be blocked. I'll be back to editting soon - actually I've been spending alot of time adding stuff to commons so all's not quite as bad as it seems. :) --Jza84 |  Talk  00:39, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Speaking for myself, conflicts haven't diverted me from editing too much. During the Yorkshirian case I found time to get Henry Taylor (swimmer) promoted to GA. Ironically because Yorkshirian had vandalised it. Nev1 (talk) 00:40, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

(<-) Keeper, it's OK, a checkuser finally came along and confirmed things. Sorry for the intrusion. --Jza84 |  Talk  11:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry I was offline there a bit Jza. Malleus gives good advice, focus on the enc, the rest falls in place on an "as needed" basis. And Malleus, chill out dude. Methinks perhaps you overreacted there a bit. <sarc> You know damn well we've never "worked" together, other than this, this, this and of course, this now red link. But hey, I don't have a GA yet, so yeah, we haven't worked together. </sarc>...Keeper ǀ 76 14:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


Whoa...freaky...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

  • Hell, yeah!!!! Oh, wait, if Keeper is blocked, I'll actually have to... *gasp* ...contribute to the encyclopedia. Hmmm. I guess I'll sleep on it, so for now, Neutral. J.delanoygabsadds 02:29, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose: I view blocks as prima facie evidence of power hunger. seicer | talk | contribs 04:42, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Calgon. Take me away. Keeper ǀ 76 14:19, 9 September 2008 (UTC) (and for those too young, Brit or Oz to get the reference, here ya go!. Keeper ǀ 76 14:21, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
    • I doubt Keeper appreciates how amusing "Calgon bath and beauty products" sounds from this side of the Atlantic. – iridescent 15:47, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

So Torii Hunter and Pudge

I'm surprised it took this long for a fight. Or a "roundhouse slap." TravellingCari 04:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Um what? Pudge and Spiderman got in a fight? How did I miss that? Keeper ǀ 76 14:23, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
minor fracas. Yankee announcers called it a slap. It was a girl fight, if I do say so myself. TravellingCari 14:47, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
My two fave parts of that link you so graciously provided are the final score, and the hug after the game in the clubhouse. Keeper ǀ 76 14:50, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
"I stepped on a bat and lost my balance," Hunter said. Yeah, and I'm a VP candidate. The game was abysmal. I wanted to see if Jeter would edge out the Babe, but the 10p start and the score counteracted that. What happened to your other boys? They were supposed to win last night. I was even rooting for them! TravellingCari 14:59, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't like Jeter. He's too pretty to be trusted. As for the Vikes, I'm a non-fan fan. I watch the games. I don't exactly cheer for them, but it is also highly entertaining to try and guess how they'll lose. Bad defense? Special teams fumbles? Throwing ridiculously poor passes for interceptions with under 2 minutes to play? So hard to guess....Keeper ǀ 76 16:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I like jeter because has talent and has played consistently well since he came up. I don't go gaga OMG!Derek as some women do because really, he's not that attractive. Watch the Vikings win next week. Hell watch the Colts help them win as they did with the Bears. Oy. I'm leaning hard into football because the Yankees are pissing me off. If they're not going to play hard, then don't bother. Give back your $$ and forfeit the games. TravellingCari 16:21, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

2008 Minnesota Vikings season

Tarvaris Jackson. --Endlessdan and his problem 13:30, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Like I said, I'm a Vikings non-fan fan. I revel in the losses. Although, I was a bit worried they might pull that one out last night....Keeper ǀ 76 14:22, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Whatever floats your boat, jack. I was actually rooting for em last night. They did just enough to give me a win in fantasy football. --Endlessdan and his problem 16:27, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Sarah Palin wheel war case request for evidence

Copying this to all admins who applied or extended protection on the Sarah Palin article.

To date there's been plenty of evidence pointing to discussions and otherwise offering commentary on the admin actions taken, but there's been little covering the circumstances prior to admin actions, namely the edits that the admins concerned based protection on. Newyorkbrad has put a question to the parties on this basis, but it seems to be only non-parties that have noticed that so far, so I'm putting this question to those involved directly.

Rootology has made a start here, and GRBerry has started drafting in his userspace. Ye might like to assist them in their efforts, or add a section of your own. This evidence will be vital in assisting the Committee's understanding of not only what happened and when, but why it happened. --bainer (talk) 14:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Anyone wanna be my proxy on this?  :-) Keeper ǀ 76 14:29, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
No. (HTH!) KillerChihuahua?!? 14:37, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Who's Sarah Palin? – iridescent 15:48, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Never heard of her. What, isn't it still August? Keeper ǀ 76 15:54, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Is this her?

<several pictures of palin removed - no caption competition on my page please>

(this just cries out for a caption competition) – iridescent 15:58, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Information.svg Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from Palinopedia. When removing text, please specify a reason in the edit summary and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. If this was a mistake, don't worry. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. – iridescent 16:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Only on my talkpage does a request for arbcom evidence turn into this shite...why is that? Keeper ǀ 76 16:19, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Because you have too good a sense of humor for your page's well-being. :-) Jclemens (talk) 16:29, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Because this is the Wikipedia equivalent of poking a dog with a stick to see how long it takes to bite? Seriously, you've become the general place to vent steam and these past few days have been staggeringly foul-tempered thanks to the revelations about Mr B and his unusual hobby. If it's any consolation, you're not alone in having your talkpage degenerate into incoherent rambling. – iridescent 16:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I give up. What's Mr B and his unusual hobby? Should I know this? Did I cause this? Have I repressed this? Keeper ǀ 76 18:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Um... This really isn't something that should go on-wiki. A Very Bad Man allegedly has done some Very Naughty Things to Wikipedia and many other sites, and has now been caught, and BLP really does stop me saying anything more, particularly as what happens now will potentially affect Real Life and could wind up in court. Can't you enable your email for 10 minutes? – iridescent 18:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
No need. I already know what you're talking about. Moving along nicely...Keeper ǀ 76 18:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm male and my last name is Bisanz, although I don't have any unusual hobbies. What's up. MBisanz talk 18:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

scientific controversy

 Done ϢereSpielChequers 21:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I spotted you on Wikipedia:Peer review/volunteers and wondered if I could tempt you briefly away from those wonderful Palin photos to give a bit of advice on scientific controversies? I've been working on a scientists bio with a longterm view of going for FA, but I've been a bit stumped by this question, about handling controversies in biographies. Could you give me a steer on this? Ta ϢereSpielChequers 15:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll look into it, I'm about as far from a "subject matter" expert as I could get. On first blush though, a "controversy" or "controversies" section (titled as such) is general frowned on, as are "trivia" sections. It is better for it to be worked into the natural prose. I'm assuming Mr. Dawkins has strong views on something or another, and that others disagree with him on those strong views, and have publicly stated as much. The prose can indicate that without a big section called "Notable person X disagrees with Dawkins!!! (a.k.a.) "controversy". It can be stated (and well sourced) in the prose. Guidelines like WP:FRINGE come to mind, as well as of course, the policy WP:NPOV, specifically the WP:UNDUE part. Keeper ǀ 76 16:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, within an hour of posting this query here four of Wikipedia's finest converged on the site and gave a very comprehensive response. So no pressing need for you to join in the discussion about Darwin's Rottweiler unless of course you fancy helping take Richard Dawkins to GA status? ϢereSpielChequers 21:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Apparently, posting to this page is the de facto method of communication in Wiki-land. If I start a thread that says "Sarah Palin drinks beer", there will be at least 50 points that will include: she drinks wine, beer? let's talk about the beers of belgium, and Keeper drinks beer and edits. Then someone will created a new section in the article Sarah Palin#Beer drinking controversy, which will use as the WP:RS, my statement here. In other words, Keeper76 has more power on Wikipedia than Jimbo. That's why I'm being nice to him. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 22:02, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
He's certainly more popular. – iridescent 22:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
God that's frightening. And to think, I've yet to edit an article. I guess me and JW have a lot in common. zing!!! Keeper ǀ 76 22:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Ooooohhhhhh. Nice one. Low and inside. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 22:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Caotrack Argument for Deletion

1. Hi, I'm new. I wrote the above to try to get consensus on a policy, or whatever it is called here, after summariazing all the arguments I read on the Obama church and Palin church debates, to abstract and summarize the essentials of the arguments based on Coatrack. My idea is that admins and editors are wasting a lot of time arguing policy, then re-arguing the exact same policy, with nothing gained from the previous arguments. The previous arguments are long, full of repetitions, and have stuff that makes little sense. But they also have essential ideas, which merit saving. The same admins and editors could be spending the same time contributing to the actual CONTENT of articles. I thought of this when I saw an admin who is a mathematician having to slog through stuff written in the heat of religous fervor, which might not have been written otherwise, and it seemed like his time would be best spent doing les meta- level stuff. I was thinking editors could resolve issues without involving admins. I am a mathematician, too, and am spending a lot of time on easily avoided discussion. Can you help me figure out wher I should be doing this? Please respond in the section you created on my page, so I don't clutter your talk page up. Thnx. EricDiesel (talk) 15:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

It's not spamming, it's replying, no worries on that front. I'll be over on your talkpage later today. Keeper ǀ 76 16:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
2. PS- I sent this same paragraph to the two others who wrote on my page. Is this spamming, and if so, how best to respond the same way to multiple people who leave messages on my page, but do not have me on "watch", so would not know I responded, or had questions? Shuold I put a "watch" on any pagge I levae a message at? Thnx again. (I was reading the jokes at the top of your page, or I wouldn't have caught your reply, so I put #2 below it.


You normally like causing such pain? TravellingCari 16:28, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the colon was unnecessary. Or was that the spleen? Ah, damn, I should probably go in....Keeper ǀ 76 16:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
"Ouch" is the nickname Laura Huxley gave me when I tripped on her front doorstep the two first times I entered, and yelped "Ouch". I thought someone looked me up and this section was a notice to me, on the way down to your response below. EricDiesel (talk) 23:21, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Another Sarah Palin Joke

  • Another Sarah Palin Joke

I was supposed to be a mathematician peer reviewing something. I went to Wikipedia to quick-check a definition of something.

In the background, I heard on cable news that Palin went to a Jews for Jesus talk to give them money in a collection, and that her pastor said I would go to hell for criticizing Bush’s Katrina handling (so will Bush, since he was critical of his own handling).
I looked up “the” church on Wiki and found nothing, so I looked up stuff on the net and found there were TWO pastors, that Palin was not even there for the Katrina rant, and that there was no evidence Palin even knew Jews for Jesus would be speaking
So I wrote my very first Wikipedia article, to get this info in under the church sites and stop the smears against Palin. (I am former political cartoonist, so I am an anti Palin AND anti Obama partisan, but I like to lampoon facts, not smears.)
Five days later, I now am reading obscure Wiki-geek deletion law, after several near sleepless days.
I just noticed that I have not picked up the math paper that I was supposed to be peer reviewing, way back at the beginning, ever since.
Have I caught a known Wiki- disease, and if so, is there a cure? ( I put the header above because I figured a bunch would read this and maybe then help cure me if I put that header.) EricDiesel (talk) 16:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I wrote "I put the header above because I figured a bunch would read this and maybe then help cure me if I put that header." - Looking below, it worked! EricDiesel (talk) 18:46, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Oh shit,, sorry keeper, i fail your "If American, you must be a baseball fan" test and should not even be here. EricDiesel (talk) 16:37, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm American and don't even know the rules of baseball, and he lets me stay here... – iridescent 16:41, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
WTF, yer American????? And to think, I was this close to respecting you...Keeper ǀ 76 16:45, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
You can read the whole story here. Though I can't imagine you care. – iridescent 18:53, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
(e/c)The disease is called Wikipediholism. You seem to have been bitten hard. My "first taste" was when the bridge near my house fell into the river. Haven't got a damn thing done since then. I'm told that this link is the only known cure, but I haven't tried it yet, well over a year worries about the baseball stuff. You can always pretend to be a fan. Orangemarlin does. Oh, wait, nevermind. He's a real fan, it's just that he likes a pretend team. Keeper ǀ 76 16:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Hey, Keeper, my bridge fell in the river, too. It is in Santa Clara County, and
sounds like a future admin in the making... ---Balloonman PoppaBalloon 16:47, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Why the hell did my name get thrown into this thread????? Let me remind Mr. Keeper that the Marlins have won not one but two World Series while the Twinkies have won zip. Nada. Nichts. Nil. Just saying that throwing stones in glass houses is not wise. So Keeper, you may block yourself for the personal attack. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 17:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Whadya mean the Twins haven't won a world series???. And I threw yer name in there because I figured you'd be posting in this thread eventually anyway. You've posted in all the rest of them already, statistically the chances were high...:-) Keeper ǀ 76 17:38, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I know that English is only a second language to Norwegian in Minnesota, the qualifier "while" is time based. So, during the period that the Marlins have won two world series, the Twins have won none. So there. But if we're using the whole of Baseball history, yes tied 2-2. Oh, and your statistical analysis was correct. I believe I have posted more to your page than my own, editing articles, and doing counter-vandalism work. I think I've Jumped the shark on Wikipedia. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 17:48, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Hey, Keeper, my bridge fell into the river too! Last May. After years of playing Robin Hood, I bought my own forest in the mountains west of Silicon Valley. When that giant "Santa Cruz Mountain fire in the news burned all my posessions up (that was my place in the helicopter shot of NBC where they said "Well, they didn't save Someone's property", that was my antique mercedes going up in flames. The bridge was my only access to my eighty acre spread, and it was made out of reinforced concrete. I discovered that while concrete is "fireproof", it also turns into chalky dust if heated. And the bridge kind of went "slump". Its still there. Probably will be in a thousand years, too. EricDiesel (talk) 18:54, 9 September 2008 (UTC) Oh, yours was the I-35W Mississippi River bridge, mine was kind of dinky. EricDiesel (talk) 19:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Another Sarah Palin thread (#41 or 42...I can't count that high)

Very funny. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 17:29, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

An/K question

I would like to move User talk:Protonk/Draft of mathematical economics back into the mainspace article Mathematical economics and I'm wondering how that is done. Do admin's get the special power to merge histories (like the Special:Import function does)? Will I not be able to include the draft revision history? Can I do this without an admin? What happens when a man loves a woman? Protonk (talk) 17:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I can answer the last question. When a man loves a woman, the woman nearly drinks herself to death. Keeper ǀ 76 17:54, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
You may have confused correlation with causation. MastCell Talk 17:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Hence the humor. Did my post cause you to not get the humor, or is it just the way you are naturally? Keeper ǀ 76 17:59, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Probably both. MastCell Talk 18:47, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
And no, you don't need "admin powers" to merge. :) Keeper ǀ 76 17:55, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
So that leaves the edit history of half of it in a draft with a cross namespace redirect to a main article. But I have editcountitis. I want to have like 300 revisions to one article, just to show everyone how cool I am! Protonk (talk) 18:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Yup. Suck it up, 'tonk. (You should get a sock at User:Antitonk, so as not to be seen as having a POV towards tonk. But I digress...) Try reading the stuff at history merge, that might solve (salve?) your editcount problem. I've never done a histmerge, so I'm at my cliff's edge. I should probably check to see if there's water in the pool before I go down the slide headfirst...Keeper ǀ 76 18:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Ooops. Histmerge is admin only (have to delete some things to "make room" for new things). If you want, you could try the histmerge in a week or so. Your support column would be at least +1 from my end of things. Keeper ǀ 76 19:12, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps I will try out this request for adminship you speak of. It seems filled with kind and gentle editors who realize that the buttons are, at most, a medium sized deal. No need to submit this "protonk" you speak of, whoever he happens to be. Antitonk (talk) 22:51, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Let's see. I'll only be an admin if....(just a quick check through keeper's page) I don't have to touch, evolution, politics, religion, 9/11, Kashmir, anything that has ever been (at any two times) property of Japan and Korea, 1=.999..., the monty hall problem, moon landing fakings, shock sites, Georgia (either), Michael Moore, or the holocaust. Yeah. That sounds about right. Because I would probably spend 1 week attempting to moderate an ID related article and then indef everyone in the edit history with the edit summary "You are all behaving like children". Not sure if that would be best for the project. Protonk (talk) 23:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Wiki Cleanup

Hi Keeper76,

I've noticed that this page... Intranet Dashboard appears to be Blatant Advertising, as described in G11

Could you please advise me how I can go about cleaning this up? Or could you please clean this for me?

I am relatively new to Wiki and I would like to ensure that the content is kept appropriate.

Kind regards,

Tony (talk) 18:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi Tony. If you see something there that appears to be blatant advertising, you can remove it, reword it to be neutral, or talk to other editor's on the talkpage of the article. The article appears well referenced, and the iD seems to have won some outside awards and acknowledgements, so I don't believe deletion is going to happen. By the way, welcome to Wikipedia! Keeper ǀ 76 18:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, no. More Palin Church problems

  • Where to go
Asociated Press reported (and now everyone else has too, of course) that Wasilla Bible Church is going to have a Convention!... to pray for God to convert gays into straights. I do not think it will fit under the little church section in Wasilla. Wasilla Assembly of God has its own article, with “Ministries” and “Community Services” as some of the sections. If Wasilla Bible Church had such a page, would this informatoin go under “Ministries”, or “Community Services”?
Maybe I should put the question (it would be a real questoin on the Wasilla Assembly of God talk page and watch what happens, or would that be trolling? EricDiesel (talk) 19:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Trolling is following one editor around, with malicious intent, to undo or contest every move that editor makes. Posting a valid question on an article's talkpage is not trolling. BTW, if my distant memory serves me correctly, just about every "Bible Church" or "AG" church has similar "conventions" with those intentions. It's a tenet of their belief systems. I don't think it belongs in any article on-wiki, it's simply not notable or uncommon. The only reason "AP" has anything on it is because of the past-Palin connection. WP:NOTINHERITED, also WP:MINUTIA (that should be a bluelink). Keeper ǀ 76 19:29, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
WP:MINUTIA won't turn blue for me. I made a page Wikipedia talk:Minutia That Got Deleted. The purpose is for me to tell anyone arguing forever because their stuff got deleted in the Palin related pages to have a way to slow down and cool off. I noticed there are admins who actually do valuable things other than resolve people who get hot because their stuff got deleted. (I started off as one). I liined out all of my stuff on Carl's talk page when I saw he was actually doing real work, but spending time resolving disputes that would disappear if the people slowed down, or had a place to keep their contributions that were deleted for being too small. It has nothing on it, but I am too unfamiliar with how things work to know if it might cause more problems than it saves admin time. EricDiesel (talk) 19:53, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
The "Minutia" idea was done in good faith on your part, but your page should probably be deleted. Wikipedia doesn't need to get in the habit of "parking edits" in project space, or any space, that don't belong in articles with valid sourcing. You've created a working space for people to park their minutia about Palin? Very much not appropriate, you can certainly understand why. Would you like me to delete it, keeping in mind that I'll probably delete it anyway if you don't? Keeper ǀ 76 20:53, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, delete on both your recommendation and authority (authority for me comes from making an effort, having experience, and working in good faith, all of which you seem to have a super abundance of. Are you one person?). user:iridescent said I would regret it if I kept it, but on what appeared to be a concern for my own mental health, not making problems for Wiki, which it was intended to do the opposite of. How do you all keep up with all this stuff? EricDiesel (talk) 23:15, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm actually several people all typing at the exact same time on the exact same keyboard. We have many minds, but only two hands...and you made the right choice, I see that it's already deleted. Keeper ǀ 76 14:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Keeper, please help!


Srkhan2 (talk · contribs) beganmoving articles again and creating some nonsense redirects. He had already done that in the past and was subsequently blocked. Gwernol was the one to block him and delete the redirects (non-existing titles), but now he is absent, so I ask you to please do something. His contributions page shows it all. Regards, ShahidTalk2me 20:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

He now also vandalises my userpage (because I warned him). ShahidTalk2me 20:20, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Checked his contribs. He seems to have reverted himself (on the page moves), and has heeded your last warning. If he makes one more pagemove (after your warning), I'll block him. Keeper ǀ 76 20:32, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I also deleted his redirect (the King Kahn 4 one). Keeper ǀ 76 20:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, but he reverted himself before receiving my warning. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I just hope he stops doing that and stops vandalising articles, as he regularly does via his IP as well. Let's see what happens. Thanks again, ShahidTalk2me 20:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for your diagnosis (and serious help, too). Is going to the page Wikipediholism a symptom of Wikipediholism? I posted a cure there, which I found effective for me. EricDiesel (talk) 23:30, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

A menstrual cup.

I am guessing you have heard this a google times, but Wikipedia search for "Keeper" asks me if I am looking for a "A menstrual cup." EricDiesel (talk) 18:58, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Not only have I heard that, eons ago, but I even have it linked on my userpage.  :-) Keeper ǀ 76 19:04, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Which begs the question, why are you googling "keeper"? Seems creepy. I haven't yet googled EricDiesel...Keeper ǀ 76 19:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I put your name in Wikipedia search, not google, but I forgot the user: part in front, and I ended up with a menstrual cup.
If you Google Fritzpoll, there's lots about me Fritzpoll (talk) 19:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Heard it? Oh well, at least I got to use the word google. EricDiesel (talk) 19:25, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Someone erased the googleable virtual me. Fortunately I have lots of other publishing names, Nom De Guerres, Nom De Plums, and even a "Timothy Leary-Laura Huxley gang" name, too. Best to look at EricDiesel, where you will believe that someone made me disappear off the google. (I like that term, who coined it?) Google gets you only one thing on me about my building one of my roads near my bridge that fell into the river). That cost me 20 million, and I am not kidding, unfortunately. EricDiesel (talk) 19:30, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

*self google* eek. I'm more notable than I thought. TravellingCari 20:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Results 1 - 10 of about 3,950 for travellingcari. (0.30 seconds) – you rock – iridescent 20:53, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
And they're nearly all me too. Funny thing is, I really only just started using this username. My other one gets 14,800. Damn, I need to get an off-line life. TravellingCari 20:44, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Arg. I really want the "menstrual cup" section to get archived, but no, you had to edit here, didn't you? Oh, wait....Keeper ǀ 76 20:46, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

2 thoughts

1. We are all addicted.

2. I'm sure glad Image:Wikipedia has a problem.png didn't get surreptisiously swapped out with one of the many *ahem* member pictures on commons.

That is all. If, by chance, no one knows what I'm talking about, then feel free to change "we are all" to "I am" Protonk (talk) 23:28, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you bored Protonk? If yer lookin' for something to do, you should adopt a new user and "show him the ropes". You know, give back to the community that has given so much to you. I recommend Antitonk (talk · contribs). Keeper ǀ 76 14:31, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Seems like there would be a lot of head butting there. but he does want to be an admin. Maybe I can help him cheat, I mean, get to know the policies a little better. Protonk (talk) 14:45, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Copyedit Request Utah State Route 68

Keeper - I am here from User:Tony1/How_to_satisfy_Criterion_1a. I want to take this article to FAC, but Tony has been, less than receptive to a lot of our FAC requests going through, and I wanted to try to make this article as smooth as possible before sending it to FAC. If there is anything you can do as far as a copy edit or suggestions, it would be appreciated. Thank you --Admrb♉ltz (talk) 02:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of Big Love. LOL. Sorry Admrboltz, it's an inside joke. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 19:02, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
The irony didn't escape me either, LOL....Keeper ǀ 76 19:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Your page has turned boring

I come here to get my morning perk-up especially when I have to read crap like this. Usually, it takes a whole cup of coffee to get through the morning's fill of Keeper jokes, Keeper on Sarah Palin, Keeper on bribing editors to write articles (I know that's just a rumor), Keeper getting blocked, Keeper blocking someone. Today. Nothing. I'll have to get my entertainment being a good cabal member (whatever that is). OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 14:50, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Alright. I'll bite. Joe Biden sucks. :) Protonk (talk) 14:52, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
(hist) (status) 14:51, September 10, 2008 MBisanz (Talk | contribs | block) blocked "Orangemarlin (Talk | contribs)" (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of indefinite ‎ (Motorcycles suck) (Unblock)
Happy? MBisanz talk 14:54, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Evil bird alert!!!!!

I don't even have to click on your link OM to know what your bitching about. I've decided to vote for Bob Barr. Mainly because his Wikipedia article isn't so damn frustrating. Based on that alone, I feel he'd make a good Leader of the Free World. Keeper ǀ 76 15:00, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah - Bob Barr's radical metamorphosis from a garden-variety Big-Government conservative into a libertarian is fascinating and, I think, quite brave. I mean that seriously, especially since any evidence that a politician has learned something new or evolved their viewpoint to incorporate new information is typically derided as "flip-flopping". MastCell Talk 20:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm a big fan of flip-flops. I wear them all all summer, and sometimes, in the winter even. Keeper ǀ 76 20:04, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Do they look anything like this? MastCell Talk 20:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I plead the Fifth. For you brits out there reading this, it means I refuse to answer in order to not incriminate myself. To some Americans, "pleading the Fifth" means "I'm guilty, but I refuse to say it out loud", but according to the letter of the rule as it was intended, it means "I'm guilty, and I refuse to say it out loud."  :-) Keeper ǀ 76 20:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I seem to recall that Shaggy often cited it as a Constitutional basis for his refusal to investigate allegedly haunted edifices: "I refuse to enter on grounds which may intimidate me." MastCell Talk 20:19, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Meh. voting for the patriot act is a pretty big party foul. I mean, we can all look back in hindsight and say that the iraq war was a travesty or it was awesome, or whatever, but we have to accept that going for it was a relatively reasonable decision under reasonable pressure (no more or less than other pushes to war). But the patriot act was a mess on wheels. And we passed it because we were afraid our government didn't have enough power to make us safe. I can't imagine how someone devoted enough to libertarianism to run for president under their banner could every say "Yes, this is a just and reasonable exercise of government power". I know he claims to have 'changed', but that would kind of be the "oh my, I appear to be part of the problem" moment. If it wasn't, then the guy isn't attentive enough to be a good libertarian. Oh well. Protonk (talk) 20:20, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello. It was called the PATRIOT Act. You basically had two choices: vote for it, or the terrorists win. If I recall the debate correctly. MastCell Talk 20:22, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
(e/c)Just for the record here, y'all do realize I was joking when I said I was voting for Barr? Politics aside, I had no fricking idea that Shaggy had a last name. Shaggy Rogers, eh? as for the Patriot act, I find it comforting. Based on the vileness of my phonecalls (if you only knew the line of work I'm in), it's quite comforting to know that Big Brother is listening in :-) Keeper ǀ 76 20:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
While you guys were gabbing about imaginary political events, I managed to redirect three namespaces 1, 2, 3. Oh the shame, the shame! MBisanz talk 20:28, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I know, keeper. I just figured someone would do it in an obvious blue/red state as mischief voting. Besides, "calm wikipedia page" is about as rational a decision rule for voting for president as many others. Protonk (talk) 20:33, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Your opinion needed

Could you give your opinion on this thread?. Cheer . — Realist2 21:09, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

As you've (likely) noticed, I fixed the seattle times ref. This guy seems notable, has defintely made a living off of MJ, (right or wrong, positive or negative is irrelevant), and has surfaced in the news as the subject of independent, reliable sourcing. Reluctantly, I have to say yes, he is notable, per our inclusion criteria. You've probably noticed that I just fixed a ref in the article while reading it. I'm sure that if the Seattle Times did a piece on him, others have/will also in the future, as MJ himself drifts in and out of the spotlight. Keeper ǀ 76 21:18, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Sure, ok. Thanx for rep. — Realist2 22:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

On the subject of lookalikes

The mind boggles. Yes, an external link to a commercial website, but I can't imagine many of your TPS's are going to apply. – ιριδίζων 21:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Topless eh? I've got some pretty decent man-breasts in the works....I could use the thousand bucks....Keeper ǀ 76 21:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
.....must...wash brain. Must forget image. Protonk (talk) 22:08, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Hey. The first rule of Fight Club, is there is no fight club. Meat Loaf was spectacular, despite the disease that he has in common, with , er, others....Keeper ǀ 76 22:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Why am I not surprised there is a picture of that on commons. "The free repository for cock and breast pictures you can edit!" Protonk (talk) 22:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Moobs? Doesn't scratch the surface of Commons's "specialist offerings". – переливающийся 22:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't have moobs. I don't need a bro, or a manziere. Just sayin. All in fun. Of course I'm not exactly saying that I have a six-pack for abs either, more like a keg. But that's a lifestyle issue i suppose....Keeper ǀ 76 01:20, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
What I would like to know is how Iridescent finds this stuff... Or maybe I don't want to know.......... J.delanoygabsadds 02:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Anyone hungry?

That's just vile. I don't think I've ever eaten 2 or 3, let alone 23,000! TravellingCari 21:54, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Mmm tasty. It is a blight to wikipedia that Don Gorske is a bluelink. A blight. Keeper ǀ 76 22:04, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
He proposed to his wife Mary, in his favorite McDonald's parking lot. Memo to anyone thinking of proposing to me, don't go there. TravellingCari 22:09, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I knew someone who GOT MARRIED at the smoking area on a Naval training command. Protonk (talk) 22:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

September 11 attacks

Hi Keeper. I just came by to wish you a happy (or sad) 9/11. -- RyRy Public (talk) 01:34, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I'm not sure too many people wish each other a happy Pearl Harbor day in the states. Of course, people do say happy Easter, so there you go. Protonk (talk) 01:38, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
(e/c) Thanks Ryan. I knew/know several people that met their Maker that tragic day. No happiness on my end. Best wishes to you Ryan, and your family. May tragedy and grief never fall on you and yours. Keeper ǀ 76 01:40, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Keeper. You too. -- RyRy Public (talk) 01:43, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
My aount was at the pentagon that day. Survived. Shapiros10 contact meMy work 11:12, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

A comment

Again, on a more serious topic. Even though I was about to write the same thing here, I would hope that you understand that this ID cabal bullshit lead to my secret Star Chamber hearing that got you to come to my page a few months ago to state your support. It is a serious problem whereby certain users are making baseless accusations of an ID cabal that, much like FT2's secret arbitration hearings, converse in private to determine what articles to edit and which editors to harass. In fact, both aren't true. These "ID cabal is ruining Wikipedia" editors, who will remain nameless, but you can figure it out, have crossed the line to personal attacks. So, I hope that even though Godwin's Law was invoked quickly (and Swatjester, like myself, is a Jew, and in general, Nazi references are less funny, and more serious, than it is to others, so I think Swatjester was making a valid point), you understand how much this ID cabal bullshit is offensive to an editor like me. It makes it appear that I don't have intelligent thought, I just edit because I am against ID (which, since it was smashed by the Supreme Court, is irrelevant to the world). OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 18:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

ID? Protonk (talk) 18:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Intelligent design. It's not a place you wander without protection. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 18:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
(re to OM's first post, e/c)I agree that to revert to "its the <insert any descriptor here - admin cabal, ID cabal, whatever>" is a step backwards. My post was meant to lighten the mood. I'm so very tired of the SP crap. I've agreed with some of the posts that some other users (one in particular) have made and have supported his/her edits at SP and talk:sp, but again, this is a step backwards, unsolicited, and unwarranted. Some serious, and friendly advice though OM. Just today (or maybe last night), you posted another "serious" thread on my talkpage, accusing those that wanted SP protected of being part of a "super-class of editors". One doesn't excuse or cause the other, and vice versa, just sayin. I was shocked to see an IDcab accusation on a completely unrelated article about a fucking politician. There is no ID cabal. There is certainly no admin cabal either (if there were, there wouldn't be wheel wars, we'd all agree on everything). Keeper ǀ 76 18:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, I certainly didn't want it to sound like an accusation. What I said (or at least meant to say) was that by doing this we've created the appearance of a super class of editors. And because my points aren't being made clearly, it wasn't really meant for you, because I know what you did. It was meant for the 437,000 editors who are watching your page. Apparently, I was so subtle, that you missed it, and thought I was making an accusation against you, which I wasn't. The wheel war was annoying. The ID cab shit has made it worse. SP is just a symptom of some of the problems that are going on in this place. So I hope that you're not pissed at me. I'm striving to stay out of it, and be as flippant and sarcastic as I can about this whole thing. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 18:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm no good at subtle, although when talking with another real-life Minnesotan, I can communicate several tomes of information with only my eyebrows, a few grunts, and a couple of "not too shabby" comments while standing along side someone, not even looking at them. I'm not pissed (American or British sense). I'm tired. If you check my contribs, I left a note on another editor's talkpage regarding this same issue (you know which one, I presume). Keeper ǀ 76 18:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I thought Minnesotans also farted to acknowledge understanding of one another. I believe that Leinie's are necessary for proper communication. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 20:47, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
God I love Leinie's Red. And we only fart in ice fishing houses (to keep warm). Other than that, I can't remember the last time I heard a good fart in a public restroom that was occupied by more than one person. How embarassing. Keeper ǀ 76 20:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
With global warming, ice fishing days are numbered. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 20:50, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
If you folks continue down this path and Keeper and I will start telling Sven and Ole jokes. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 20:54, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm just so happy that someone else on wiki knows what a "sven and ole" joke is. Keeper ǀ 76 13:48, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


Frustration is just a horrible thing. I am so close to making inappropriate comments on this AFD that I am about to tear my hair out! I have more than surpassed the guidelines to ensure that this article is not deleted, and people are still claiming that the subject is not notable. Peer-reviewed journal, US and UK newspapers, and a press release from the US Customs Service is so far beyond the requirement for multiple reliable sources that I cannot understand any remaining comments for deletion. I wish I knew Russian so I could find more to ensure that this article stays put. Sorry about the venting Keeper, but I am almost at my wits end with this one. AN/K is about as good a place as any for a rant that has no business anywhere else. Jim Miller See me | Touch me 21:15, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

This seems to have came and went before I could get to it, I've been offline for 24 hours (9/11 reasons mostly). Are you satisfied with the result of the debate? Keeper ǀ 76 13:53, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

good post:

Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar.png The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
Good post, worth saying, said it well. Regards, Ben Aveling 00:09, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
I respect you? Man, you really have to lay off those Leinie's. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 00:15, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
I gave you an out. I said you "respect me, or at least pretend to." That's your out.  :-) I'm frankly quite tired of the cabal shit. From both sides. Collaboration =/= collusion. Similar interests/wiki-friendship =/= cabalism. True for the science/ID crowd, true for the bathrobe crowd, true for the admin crowd. There are no cabals. There are common interests. There are editors, myself included, that will stick up for other editors. PERIOD. It's an easy out though, isn't it? An easy excuse. And easily abused, from all sides. I don't take sides. I'm not in any cabal. I don't do IRC, I don't do e-mail, I never will. I edit Wikipedia where I feel necessary (which mostly feels like my talkpage exclusively the last few weeks , I don't take sides. Wikipedia is fun. My job is stressful, my life is stressful, Wikipedia is my outlet from that stress. ARGH, it isn't working lately !!!!!! OM is a damn fine editor. So is KC. So is Kelly. So is LL/JV. So is SirF, so is Jossi, so is cla68, so is MBisanz, so are <add a thousand names here>. The Palin shit is taking over everyone's minds, mine included. Again, I'm so f***ing thankful that this happened pre-Wiki. I can't imagine the shit that would fly towards fans if Wikipedia was in it's current state when no one in the f***ing country could figure out who won a presidential election. Palin Pales-in comparison to that, for perspective. Pales. Keeper ǀ 76 01:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
You're tired of the cabal shit??? Think about me!!!!! And yes, I'm a damn fine editor. Thanks. LOL. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 02:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, OM, yer a damn fine editor. And you aren't part of any cabals. My warning is a two way street though. If you don't want to be considered part of "a cabal", be very careful in the future about accusing others of the same. Not an attack from me, rest assured, just friendly advice. I'm not part of any damn cabal. I've never let on my "real" politics or beliefs on-wiki; Wikipedia is my outlet, nothing more, nothing less. Don't be surprised when others (mostly those that are fringe, yes, but still, others) disagree with you. Don't call them trolls, or POV pushers, or cabal members, if that's what you don't want others to call you. Kindergarten lessons here, really. Do unto others....etc....Keeper ǀ 76 02:47, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Cheer up Keeper things could be worse you know. RMHED (talk) 01:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
A doomed man contemplates putting on a dress and calling himself Sarah.
  • Thanks RHMED. I'm actually in a spledidly good mood. Jack helped a bit. I should prolly go off line sooooonn....Keeper ǀ 76 01:38, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
  • I heart Leinies. I don't have no money though. I gotta do what I gotta in the fridge. But a Red sounds so friggin sweet right now....Keeper ǀ 76 01:49, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
  • I fixed your colons. And mine too. You know you'd have more money, if you actually worked instead of playing around this place. You have to get extra cash to contribute to the Obama/Biden campaign. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 02:04, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, yeah. Eminently sensible rant. Far too sensible for this place. Guettarda (talk) 06:12, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

The only problem I had with it was that I wasn't trying to motivate anyone to pick up torches or pitchforks - it really was an effort to bridge the gap between my perspective and one which, quite obviously, differed. I think it was mostly successful - I have a better idea of where others are coming from, anyway - but the goal wasn't to get people fired up about going after any person or group. MastCell Talk 22:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Disparaging you

Some troll is making rude remarks about you here: User talk:SandyGeorgia#OUCH. You might have to consider a civility warning. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 18:07, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Ignore the troll; I have a serious question. How was I supposed to know? I don't even remember where Kelly and I ever clashed, or over what. I simply cannot keep track of every person I ever disagree with everywhere, on the off chance that they'll decide I have some sort of personal dislike for them. Huge waste of my time. KillerChihuahua?!? 18:44, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Sorry KC, just saw this up here. You're right, you can't reasonably be expected to keep track of whomever you pissed off. Do what I do, and just assume it's everyone. Start your posts with, "Hello! I'm about to criticize/complain/warn/advise you on your actions. You and I may or may not have clashed in the past. If we have, this is unrelated to our history of disagreement. If we haven't, this is still unrelated to any one else, at any time, that may (or may not) have disagreed with you whilst simultaneously either directly or indirectly agreeing with me. In addition, I'm a member of a Wikiproject that deals with the subject of Intelligent Design. This has nothing to do with that either. So anyway..." (and then proceed with your criticism, complaint, warning, advice). That should go over well. I can make you a template if you'd like, you know, for show. Keeper ǀ 76 15:05, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
In spite of your links, that might not be a bad idea. I'd become a wee tad verbose... yeah, you're right, I'd get in trouble for POINT. There is no way to handle this. Feh. KillerChihuahua?!? 17:26, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Anyone want to play detective?

here? Real Life Ministries is a mess. Has been, will continue to be. Thoughts? Am I seeing something? I'm going to ping User:Arakunem as s/he has been helping with the babysitting there. TravellingCari 21:19, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

The man with the moustache and the eyepatch did it. ~ mazca t | c 21:20, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
I did a double-take when I first read the subject line on my watchlist; I swear I thought it said "Anyone want to play doctor?", and Mazca's edit summary of just "!" didn't help... EVula // talk // // 21:29, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
@ Mazca: In the lounge with the candlestick? @EVula: LOL! TravellingCari 21:46, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Ah, a perfect example of where I couldn't think of a useful edit summary so I just added a piece of punctuation to make the edit-summary-reminder thing not bother me. I'm glad that lonely exclamation mark served the exciting purpose of momentarily confusing EVula. ~ mazca t | c 23:01, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
I swear "re" has become my standard talk page edit summary. I try to be a bit more useful on article talks TravellingCari 02:17, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
I always use "added comment", which, I suppose, is nearly as useless. Useight (talk) 02:48, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Before I became a "big, important admin" (a-hem), I didn't carry on a tremendous amount of correspondence, so I usually tried to leave informative edits summaries for everything. Now I'm just lazy... J.delanoygabsadds 03:47, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

  • I never really 'got' the point of talk page edit summaries for replies. Unless I'm cracking a joke or doing something odd, I'm always replying. I think someone sent me a talk page message telling me to use edit summaries once and I was a little confused. I'm SO screwed if there is some tool to see (edit summaries minus automatic edit summaries). I would go from 100% to about...whatever my mainspace edit percentage is. Protonk (talk) 04:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
    Yeah, I generally leave nice detailed summaries for all my mainspace edits, it's just very hard to think of anything meaningful to say on most talk-page edits.~ mazca t | c 06:41, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Protonk, i think so long as there's an edit summary, even that of the section header, it shows as having used one. Mazca, I agree. At times if I'm being funny one might come naturally but otherwise, nope. TravellingCari 12:17, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Is this thread really about edit summaries? How does this stuff happen??? Oh, and it was the butler, in the pantry, with a "economy sized" jar of stringed beans. Keeper ǀ 76 13:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm more inclined to think it was a puppet with a sock TravellingCari 17:47, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Good news? Bad news?

You need Liriano. Your Twins should not lose to KC. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 01:09, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

That's "Kansas City" for those who might be confuddled, right OM? KillerChihuahua?!? 10:20, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
I was wondering. Ben Aveling 11:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks a bazillion, jerkhead. I haven't watched yesterday's game yet, got it on the DVR. Piss. Keeper ǀ 76 13:49, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Jerkhead? I was trying to be helpful. Grrrrrrrr.  ;) BTW, I can't DVR games, because the home page on my browser opens up to in the summer and in the winter. My iPhone has the app (which for those of you who are baseball addicted, like me, is about the most important tool ever). And of course, I have XM radio in my car, tuned to the MLB channel. There is no hope that a score could be kept secret for more than 10, maybe 20 seconds.  :) OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 14:54, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
I have all those options (except XM in the car), and purposefully ignore them when I know I'm DVR-ing a game. It's called discipline, OM. Look into it. Keeper ǀ 76 14:57, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Discipline??? Wazzat? No, I spend so much time responding to your vandalism on my user talk page, I don't have time to watch games. I want the score, who won, who lost, the highlights. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 22:54, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Sad news

attempted speedy deletion Enigma message 14:44, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Has anyone ever even used it? I surely haven't. Meh. Keeper ǀ 76 14:48, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
I've been saving it! I know there will be a time we'll need it. Oh well, we'll have to do it by hand instead of by template. Enigma message 14:54, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
I deleted it. Don't need the drama-fy. It's not like nobody watchlists this page anyway :-) Keeper ǀ 76 14:58, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Good point. Anyone who is being discussed here and misses it... well, they're taking a wiki-break and wouldn't have shown if templated anyway, right? KillerChihuahua?!? 03:29, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Upon waking up

Thank you. I just didn't expect it (shocked is the word I'm looking for).Synergy 17:01, 12 September 2008 (UTC)This might be the only thankspam I send out.

I meant ever word of it. You're one of the good guys, just need some polish. (That's polish, as in shoe polish, not Polish, as in from Warsaw). Keeper ǀ 76 17:09, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
I've commented at the RfA under your support. While you think I'm one of the good guys, I however, do not think you are one of the bad guys (not to say you said I thought that, I know it was just a thought you were having). Synergy 17:12, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I think watchlists are dead....

Server time is 22:00:15 and this is the last edit on my watchlist:

My watchlist From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Namespace: Invert selection 12 September 2008

   * (diff) (hist) . . User:Arakunem‎; 19:57 . . (+37) . . Arakunem (Talk | contribs | block) (→Articles I Expanded: DYK Graphic)

More than two hours ago. Somehow, I don't buy it. Can't be. Not a chance. TravellingCari 22:01, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

My watchlist is working fine, must be you :-) Do you have yours set to "ignore minor edits" or somesuch? Keeper ǀ 76 22:02, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
What's a watchlist? RMHED (talk) 22:19, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
@Keep, don't think so. There are "M" and "B" edits showing. @RHMED, wow. Mine needs a diet but not that much of one. What browser is that? I love how bg it looks. Mine is tiny! Happy Friday all! TravellingCari 22:24, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Ye Olde IE6 on larger text size, for my poor old eyes aren't what they once were. RMHED (talk) 22:31, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I think the verdict here TC is that you need to add more volatile articles to your watchlist. Those museums of yours are just too blah. Some recommendations:

Hope that's helpful! Keeper ǀ 76 00:49, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Noticed some vandalism from you

It is better to eat your broccoli than to master your own domain. Doctor's advice. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 22:52, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Um. Okay. Advice noted. (freak). Keeper ǀ 76 00:50, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Holy shit. Looks like I'm on my way to having extremely low rates of prostate cancer. Thanks OM! You have rejuvenated my enthusiasm each and every time I open up my browser. seicer | talk | contribs 00:53, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
And yet another talkpage stalker....and my prostate should very easily outlast my will to live. And I hate broccoli. Just sayin. Keeper ǀ 76 01:10, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
718smiley.png Yes, a stalker. More like, I am easily amused and I find humor in both of your talk pages. Plus, I like both of you. That's a rarity. seicer | talk | contribs 01:19, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Do you ever stalk the funny colored fish? That's my hobby. I run into all kinds of weird articles, I have no idea how he finds them. KillerChihuahua?!? 03:30, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
The thought process works like this:
  1. "Wow... we have an article on the 'hypothesis' that President Garfield was assassinated by John D. Rockefeller acting on the orders of the Pope."
  2. "Hmmm... the article belongs to Category:Papal involvement in the assassination of James Garfield. I wonder how many other pages are in that category?"
  3. "Oh... my... God."
Repeat until you burn out and quit. MastCell Talk 05:15, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Just in case anyone wondered, I did click on the redlink, all the while praying that there weren't any pages actually in that category... J.delanoygabsadds 05:26, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm glad I could bring some color and knowledge to this user talk and to the world at large. I just wonder how many guys will vote for the broccoli with the other activity.  :) By the way, KC just stalked me to Orgone. I actually can't believe it. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 07:49, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Can't believe I stalked you again (you're funny!), can't believe the article (we have articles on almost everything), can't believe the subject of the article (ok, i'm with you there, its fairly far-out), or other? Please be specific. KillerChihuahua?!? 13:03, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Big News

Ecoleetage is coming back full blast on Tuesday night. Wanted to beat him to it :P Shapiros10 contact meMy work 13:00, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Actually, there is bigger news than my two-cent deposits here. I am flying out to L.A. for a callback and meetings on that movie audition I mentioned earlier. Details to follow. Wish me luck. Ecoleetage (talk) 13:23, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Ooh, Break a leg, and all that!!! Let us know how it goes. KillerChihuahua?!? 13:50, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Deep thought

Wikipedia should have an ignore feature. Protonk (talk) 06:25, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, is this section blank for anyone else? ~ mazca t | c 13:16, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
What section? Keeper ǀ 76 18:51, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
That's right, ignore, ignore! My plan is coming to fruition! muahahahaa Antitonk (talk) 20:08, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Lipstick gate

I've no idea whether you will agree with me or not. But some input here would be appreciated.--Troikoalogo (talk) 17:37, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm torn on this Troik. Honestly, had I seen the AFD before it closed, I would have likely opined to have the article deleted. The article is definitely improving and getting better sourcing and more balance. It may need to be cut down some more (the recentism is still too strong). Keeper ǀ 76 18:16, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


And I'll openly fucking admit it. Go here. Jennavecia (Talk) 17:49, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Closed it per snow. I dare someone to DRV my close. Keeper ǀ 76 17:54, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
As I dare someone to give me shit for this message. Thanks. Jennavecia (Talk) 17:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Sometimes I wonder about people around here. Just because Wikipedia has pretensions of being a serious reference work doesn't mean we can't show a little humanity. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:25, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Amen. Keeper ǀ 76 18:50, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

OMFG, I'm glad I didnt see this, or I might have been even more vocal than Jennavecia. What posessed the nominator? I am appalled. KillerChihuahua?!? 20:32, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah... I'm often the first to be accused of being a cold-hearted bastard but even if you don't have any particular attachment to the deceased user it's not hard to figure out what reaction an MfD like that is inevitably going to draw from the community. ~ mazca t | c 22:09, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

How to be BOLD?

I recently wrote my first Wikipedia article. I read I should be BOLD. I am a mathematician who was substitute teacher for the 2003 Cirque du Solei Clown Class in San Francisco, where being bold without actually ruining or disrupting the main show was an actual topic of the class. So I wrote an article in an area of both religion and politics, about Sarah Palin's churches. Was this a good topic for a first article to learn being bold? After this, trying to be even more bold than religion and politics, I wrote two articles about Wikipedia policy; one was called WP:Coatrack Deletions. I wrote them in two places outside of userspace (I did not yet know the difference, so the location was not really being bold), and one was moved to userspace, the other is being debated as to where it should go. Having written an article involving Palin's religion, then more controversially, on Wikipedia policy outside of userspace, I have run out of ideas for my next article, that is, what kind of article would be the next level of being EVEN MORE BOLD. Are there any suggestions for subect area that is even more bold than Palin/religion or Wikipedia policy? EricDiesel (talk) 18:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

  • In short, no. My suggestion is to spend some time editing other articles, adding content, fixing typos. If you are a mathematician than the Math WikiProject could use some help. Just like any community, Wikipedia has norms and expectations. Some of these are silly, but some of them are very important (despite how silly they look). If you plan to work in controversial areas of wikipedia (and current american politics is always contrversial), you should spend some time to learn these norms and see how things work around here. WP:BOLD is an important instruction, because it helps people break out of inertia. But being bold in the face of consistent good faith opposition is less laudable. Protonk (talk) 18:20, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
The talk pages in math appear to be just as heated as the politics and religion pages. In fact, a reply to one of my questions on one referred me to an article whose first sentence linked to polemic. EricDiesel (talk) 19:56, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
  • (e/c)I think you should write an essay on what not to do in your first week if you wish to "blend in" on Wikipedia. :-) Seriously though, there is a steep learning curve here, but not because we are all geniuses. Simply because we are (sometimes unintentionally) building a labyrinth around ourselves to protect our cheese. The maze is closely guarded, by watchpersons with boiling oil, fiery arrows, dragons and moats. The irony of course, is that we openly invite anyone out there that is viewing our fortress to "come on in and leave your cheese!" Every day, someone comes to the fortress and says "here's my cheese too, I'm boldly placing it inside your labyringth." We sometimes forget, in judging the quality of the cheese, that it was put here with the trust that it would be accepted and protected, and not cast over the wall. If the cheese really stinks though, it gets thrown out. If the person that brought the cheese throws it back inside, the person gets thrown out too. Keeper ǀ 76 18:23, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
That actually sounds like a good idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EricDiesel (talkcontribs) 18:51, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
What did? The essay joke? (it was a joke), or the throwing out the contributor that keeps bringing stinky cheese? Keeper ǀ 76 18:56, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
That is, That actually sounds like a good idea. I'm on it; WP:Coatrack Deletions started as sort of a "what not to do". But I also find that I learned a lot from being bold on the first tries, especially as it got me much sound mentoring advice, and I saw many opinions in a short time. I recently did an edit on a math article outside my field, which elicited a sort of "what is a math article in an ecyclopedia?" philosophical response. In the meantime, I am going to go take a bath in a moat of boiling oil and shower in fiery arrows to try to get rid of my cheese smell. EricDiesel (talk) 18:59, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Hey, what if some of us like stinky cheese? Jclemens (talk) 19:01, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
You can stand downwind with the rest of the lot. Keeper ǀ 76 19:02, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
You could even get it standing upwind from me. EricDiesel (talk) 19:49, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
A Wikipedia search on “Cheese” fails to disambiguate with “Cheese movies” as an option (although it does include “recreational drug”. That is, no one has written an article on “cheese movies”, which are the opposite of “art films”, though there are 15 million pages from a Google search of “cheese movies”, beginning with Amazon’s “favorite cheese movies”. A notable Hollywood producer recently cringed when I used “cheesy” to describe J. Paul Getty’s painted on, 2-dimensional, Roman Villa. The smell of cheese is used in current analytic philosophy discussions of the phenomenology of olfaction, wherein the Democritus example of atomism having arisen from Democritus smelling bread is extended to smelling a rich cheese. The question is whether the complexity of a scent in an olfactory field is similar to a visual field with position in extended space at one point in time being used to analyze complexity, or whether a complex scent is a sequence of point like atomic smells with only extension in time, not space. Current neuroscience research and anatomical studies of the central nervous system favor the latter, but are not dispositive. I am not sure what a “be bold” section degenerating to a “scent of cheese” discussion indicates about its contributors. EricDiesel (talk) 20:31, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Cheese is a recreational drug?? WOOHOO!!!! :::runs off to the kitchen to huff some sharp Cheddar::::Gladys J Cortez 17:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
On Southpark, they used cat urine, but it doesn't seem to work for me. EricDiesel (talk) 01:18, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
My cube-mate made me watch that epi, knowing I am Crazy Cat Lady--trust me, any neophytes, the only thing that cat pee does is make the litterbox-cleaner GAG. Cheese has gotta be WAAAAAAAY better.Gladys J Cortez 03:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Rudget

Why did you delete this page? When a user is renamed, we generally preserve a link between the two accounts, by keeping one of the userpages redirected. There are now over a thousand links to the deleted page, and very little way to connect the two accounts without a sysop flag. There is no privacy issue here, and so no justification for deleting this page. seresin ( ¡? ) 18:29, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I deleted it per user request. Talk to the user. (his rename is User:Caulde if you did not already know. Keeper ǀ 76 18:47, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
It's your job as an administrator to evaluate the legitimacy of the request, not just blindly delete. seresin ( ¡? ) 19:59, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
It's within any user's right to tag their own page as {{db-u1}}, as well as to vanish and reappear. What, exactly, are you suggesting that Keeper failed to do properly? Jclemens (talk) 20:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Rudget is not invoking RTV. He was renamed. We do not delete redirect pages from old user pages when renamed; this makes links to the old user page take one to a deleted page, and makes it hard to track down who people are. seresin ( ¡? ) 20:25, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm mentioned many times in the deletion log and protection logs of both the user and usertalk pages. They automatically pop-up on mine, so I thought the link would be more clearer. You may restore it, but there's no history on it (as I've been renamed) and the link is able to be seen, as I say, in the logs. Please don't accuse Keeper of "blindly" doing something when you have just done the exact same in not enquiring with me first. Caulde 14:00, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
It looks like Giggy recreated it as a redirect. (no need to restore it anymore). Next time you wish to lecture me on my "job" on Wikipedia, Seresin, please keep it to yourself, or do what I suggested in the first place, talk to the user. I don't have a "job" on Wikipedia, I have a hobby. When I get a paycheck, I'll "blindly" follow the madeup rules as you seem to think it is of such dire importance. Good grief. Keeper ǀ 76 14:08, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) Jeez, guys, with the renames. My memory is compromised by my mis-spent youth adulthood; how am I s'posed to keep track of things when Lara is Jenna, Tony is Jenny, and Rudget is Caulde??? Maybe I need a rename, too...'cept then I probably wouldn't even remember who -I- was! Gladys J Cortez 18:00, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I didn't think I was that well known! Caulde 17:30, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Political userboxes

Hi. Sure; I wasn't going to Mfd all of them, don't worry. :) It's just that some of those were very provocative, particularly on issues which undoubtedly many Wikipedians have extremely strong views both for and against, such as LGBT, abortion, and the death penalty. Some of the UBXs I Mfded were inherently insulting to the opposite side. I'm not saying I was right about all (or even many) of them, and if Wikipedia policy does allow them, then my apologies (but I have come up with a list). Thanks. --Josh Atkins (talk - contribs) 16:25, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Btw, when you said "you obviously have strong opinions about the content of userboxes", your totally right. But just to be clear, it's the type of content. I don't want all the conservative UBXs deleted and the liberal ones left alone, or vice versa. I just don't think we should have any of them. And I'm not apolitical, that couldn't be further from the truth. :) --Josh Atkins (talk - contribs) 16:27, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Begun again, the userbox wars have. yodacidic 16:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
(ec) All great Wikipedian facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce. Of all the periods in Wikipedia's history, probably the only one less appealing than the Userbox Wars was AFD/DB14. It took at least six months of argument (and repeated prodding by Jimbo) to thrash out something people could agree on last time – please, go do something less controversial, like MFDing Template:Sarah Palin or changing "body of beliefs and related practices" to "cult" (or "religion") on Scientology. – iridescent 16:46, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
"The userbox wars"

*Moved from my talk page, let's keep it all on WP:AN/K where it belongs ;p

I don't want to start that up again. I don't agree with any political userboxes. But I only Mfded a selection: those which were outright offensive, provocative, and vulgar. There's absolutely nothing wrong with disagreeing on LGBT issues. What is not acceptable is using a userpage to make the very clear allegation that the LGBT lifestyle is immoral. It's not my lifestyle; I'm totally straight. But those sort of userboxes (pro or anti on heated topics such as abortion, death penalty, LGBT) will be no doubt just purely insulting to many Wikipedians. I've listed policies that seem to defend what I've done and said. I just want to write an encyclopedia. --Josh Atkins (talk - contribs) 16:42, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry I was just making an easy joke. FWIW most of these could've been nommed under a single banner. –xeno (talk) 16:49, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Sorry :), I think I need to calm down [lobs laptop out window]. :D --Josh Atkins (talk - contribs) 16:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Incidentally, if that 'some editors will look at the first one, disagree with you, and then go down the line checking "keep" on every debate' was aimed at me, I did read each one; you'll note there was one on which I agreed with the deletion. – iridescent 17:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
That wasn't aimed at you (actually, I didn't even notice that you'd gone down the line until after I'd made that comment. It was a general observation (as witnessed firsthand by the quick retraction of another user's initial "keep" on the one that you said "delete" on) Keeper ǀ 76 18:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Withdrawing political userbox Mfd nominations

That would be great, thanks so much. Although my several was a fair few, I'll help (is there any particularly template I should use, or just simply a bolded Nomination withdrawn hatnote?). Thanks again. --Josh Atkins (talk - contribs) 17:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

 Done, thanks for the help synergy and mazca.  :-) Keeper ǀ 76 18:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Definition of wheelwarring

Just to let you know that I'm not trying to attack your comment, merely to work on what seems to be a fruitful line of discussion. Thanks for your input. Physchim62 (talk) 18:15, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

No worries. I think we agree more than we disagree anyway, I'm certainly not trying to attack either. You'll know when I am (just kidding) :-) Keeper ǀ 76 18:20, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

TheAnti-Flame Barnstar

Antiflame-barnstar.png The Anti-Flame Barnstar
I really, really can't thank you enough. Thank you so much. You're the definition of a super-super-awesome admin. Thank you. (btw, I've removed all of the warnings from user talk pages) Josh Atkins (talk - contribs) 18:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
You're very welcome. You realize the "super-super-awesome admin" is gonna get me flamed here though, right?  :-) Keeper ǀ 76 18:26, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
My opinion is that if your talk page doesn't have at least one comment from a person who thinks you are the best editor ever and one comment from a person who thinks you ought to to be tarred and feathered for your heinous deeds, you aren't doing your job hobby right. Protonk (talk) 18:33, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
So, a prokeeper and an antikeeper then? So tempted to sock right now....Keeper ǀ 76 18:34, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
(ec)I know. I've got the password to my evil twin written down and locked away because the temptation for mischief was palatable. Protonk (talk) 18:39, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
But, as Rudyard Kipling said, you need to deal both impostors just the same. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 18:38, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Ronson flame tank Iwo Jima.jpg

Titoxd gave me this when I became an admin. As I don't need it any more, I can always lend it to you if you like ;) Physchim62 (talk) 18:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


User:Keeper76 wrote, “All seriousness aside” as a section header preceding advice to me. No unreasonable person could argue with any advice that follows such a dispositive header, so I am compelled to follow any such advice. “All seriousness aside” may be my favorite quote-heard-in-my-life-to-date (that is just a minor compliment, given my persistent long term memory deficiency; persistent as far as I can remember, that is). I may have to plagiarize your header in conversation (don’t worry, plagiarism and eves-dropping are the highest forms of flattery). Regarding “Seriousness”, my most recent “mainstream” publication (under a different Nom de Guerre) was when I was approached to submit an essay for possible inclusion in a special “Absurdity” edition of James Joyce Bandersnatch Magazine. I submitted eight prospective articles on the subject. Seven of my eight essays were peer reviewed and accepted, but there was room in the magazine for only six articles in total, for all authors, creating a debate as to inclusion, especially as I submitted them under different pen names without so indicating in the submissions. (That’s a true story from 2006.) So “All Seriousness Aside” - humor being a competitive sport - I hearby accept your implied challenge and will come up with a section header to outdo yours, or go out trying. I have to go out now. (PS, "Seriousness" is only an antonym of "Absurdity" if you accept the law of the excluded middle, see constructivist mathematics) EricDiesel (talk) 20:41, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I understood about half your post here, but meh. I'm taking from this that you are agreeing to self-topic-ban your editing from anything Palin related until post-November. If that's not what you intended in your post here, than let me know, otherwise I will warn, rewarn, and eventually, block your account, if you continue to sully your enjoyment of this site by continuing to edit the Palin stuff. Post here if I have this wrong in any way. Keeper ǀ 76 20:44, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
"I understood about half of what you said" may be the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me. (Maybe you can look at the last sentence in "Master's Commission program" at WAoG, in hiding there after being moved there from where User:Balloonman had put it in the "Controversies" section, and see if it should move back. But in answer to your question, it doesn't really matter, and more importantly, I respect "arguments by masterful section headers" like "all seriousness aside", and I won't be editing or commenting more where you indicated not to.) EricDiesel (talk) 20:56, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Excellent! You will personally be better for it. I'll block you (after a few warnings anyway) if you relapse. There are over 2 million articles that need constant attention and work, the vast majority of which are currently not related to Palin. Have fun! If you are looking for some mindless fun, I always enjoyed the disambiguation project to help tidy the place. Keeper ǀ 76 21:02, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

My RfA

Janitor's bucket with mop.jpg Thank you for supporting me in my RfA, which passed with a count of (166/43/7). I appreciate your comments and in my actions as an administrator I will endeavor to maintain the trust you have placed in me. I am honored by your trust and your support. Thank you, Cirt (talk) 02:40, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Zebra & Giraffe

Good Evening.

The page I created about the new South African band, Zebra & Giraffe, has been deleted. I would like to know why, because I feel that it was a very good article about the band that is currently very big in South Africa and the article explained exactly everything about how the band came to life, who they are, their current status, music videos, how they are doing on the charts, etc. etc.

The article was written after an interview with their frontman, Greg Carlin, who also started the band, and everything in it is factual and also has his approval.

I would please like to know if you can restore this page, seeing as Greg Carlin gets a lot of people seeking information about a piece on Wikipedia about the band. If you can not restore it, will it be possible to please tell me what has to change to get in back on Wikipedia?

Thanking you in advance for your time. --Rachelle crous (talk) 18:45, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I will be replying shortly on your talkpage. Cheers, Keeper ǀ 76 18:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Ooops :-). Have you every quickly typed an edit summary, quickly hit save, and while the new page was loading, you actually looked at your edit summary, only to realize you accidently left caps lock on?. Yeah. Can't do a damn thing about it. I wish we had some sort of preview button or something so we could see what something would look like before we hit save. Sigh. Keeper ǀ 76 19:08, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


Here are links to independent reviews and srticles wrote about Z&G:

They have also been featured in several magazines, such as Glamour, Cosmopolitan, One Small Seed, FHM, etc, Thanking you in advance for your time. --Rachelle crous (talk) 19:55, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow. How did I miss all of those? I'm not sure of the reliability of them, but on first glance, they certainly appear independent. I'll be on your talkpage shortly :-) Keeper ǀ 76 20:40, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Thank you very, very much for your time. --Rachelle crous (talk) 20:56, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Best of luck at the deletion discussion. I nominated it because I'm not convinced (yet) of the notability. I'm Switzerland. Keeper ǀ 76 21:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

RfA stats

Thanks for adding all your nominations (it doesn't matter how many edits it takes to get there :D) If everyone adds info for their own noms, it will get completed a lot faster than one person doing it. Majorly talk 22:30, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

No problemo. I think I got em all, at least where I was a nom/conom. Cheers, Keeper ǀ 76 22:45, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

More eyes at Wasilla Assembly of God, please?


EricDiesel has just tried reporting me for a series of different edits. While I've reviewed my own contributions and am satisfied that 3RR was not broken, I'd appreciate any neutral eyes and mutual coaching on (sigh) yet another Sarah Palin related article. Jclemens (talk) 20:23, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I have left a note on user talk:EricDiesel (prior to your post here). E-D needs to step back from anything Palin related. The 3rr report has no merit. Keeper ǀ 76 20:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
FWIW, as you can see from the (unsigned) 'Penis' thread below, the suggested voluntary topic ban has not lasted. Jclemens (talk) 15:51, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Forget the Barnstars -- I'm chasing the Oscars!

Hello, Keeper (and the company that Keeper keeps). Good news from Eco-land: my movie audition scored and I snagged the role. I was in L.A. this past weekend to meet and greet my new cinematic benefactors. Filming should begin in early 2009 – I have to sign-off on my contract and get an OK from an insurance company’s physician, then it’s a done deal. It’s all been quite a rush.
I’m also coming back from semi-WikiBreak (like most of my addictions, I never quite broke from here completely). Since I’ve been inactive from editing in the past two weeks, I thought I would make up for lost time during my flight home from L.A. -- so I wrote up 12 new articles: Alibi Bye Bye; Brandon Curry; Daron Joffe; The Dreamers (unfinished film); Federal Crop Insurance Corporation; Lucy in London; Mattatuck Museum Arts and History Center (that one is for Cari); Sia, le rêve du python; Solazyme; Walls of Sand; Webster Kitchell; and WS Energia. Well, it is nice to be back. Ecoleetage (talk) 01:11, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Yousers, that's a lotta articulls. You wrote more articles on an airplane ride than I've written in a year. Pwned. Keeper ǀ 76 15:56, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


[8] --barneca (talk) 01:46, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

heh. Pwned. I used a naughty word. Bad keeper. Keeper ǀ 76 15:56, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

A need to squee....

even though you root for the wrong team, I have to share per Rule #4. Not only do I have tickets for Thursday, but I'll also be there on Sunday. woohoo. Also will share something I posted to the Yankees list I'm a memner of:

It's easy to be a fan when times are good. '98 with the amazing win-loss record, 2000 with a Subway Series...Even '96 when it was an unknown. We didn't know Torre and didn't know how he'd fare as a Yankee and '95 with a taste of what was possible.

But when there is no chance of the post season and when they're playing like an A ball club... It brings out those of us who like the team no matter how they fare. Why we love this team.

There are games I turn it off in disgust, yell at them at the Stadium and on the TV. Criticize moves and non-moves. But I love them. They're my Yankees.

... and that's why I just got tickets for Sunday night. Going Thursday night too.

Something Flaherty just said hit me. He was catching at a HS game in the stadium in '85 and thought "This is where Munson caught." That magic is what you can't bring across the street. TravellingCari 02:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

My boys are getting a new stadium, courtesy of me and my fellow tax payers, starting in 2011. I won't be sad, although our current homefield advantage is unprecedented. Keeper ǀ 76 15:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Never actually been to the Metrodome (or, for that matter, left the airport) but aesthetically I like it better than where the Rays play. Yankee Stadium has the history that really only Tiger Field, Comiskey, Fenway and Wrigley did. And now we've got gone, gone, pseudo-renamed new mess. Glad the other two are still standing. Yours is going to be outdoors, right? TravellingCari 16:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
And its gonna be pretty, see Target Field. Back in the early 80s, the taxpayers were fooled into thinking that, climate wise, baseball would be better played indoors on the tundra, so we ponied up for a "state of the art" superdome. 20+ years later, the taxpayers are again fooled into thinking that, sport wise, "baseball was meant to be played outdoors". I hope they allow campfires in the bleachers come April/October games, months typically with several snowstorms...I think they just sold naming rights, Target Field I believe we will be called. Right up the road from Target Center where one of our more inadequate teams "plays competitively". Keeper ǀ 76 16:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Apropos of nothing, the Metrodome is one of only three stadiums where I have seen a MLB game. One of the other two was the Kingdome, so comparatively speaking, the Metrodome was very nice. The bratwurst was good too. --barneca (talk) 16:21, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
However, the Twins are gakking. Not the time to go in a losing streak. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 16:43, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Yesterday ticked me off. We lose in extras to a really bad team (and will probably get swept tonight), The pales win in the bronx during the farewell tour. Dammit. It aint' over. I'd rather be a twins fan than a brewers fan right now. Or marlins for that matter. Although, I hate the mets, so I'll be cheering the marlins later this week I believe. And, Barneca, the "Dome Dogs" are terrific. I hope they make it to the new stade. Keeper ǀ 76 16:48, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Dude! So far we take 2-3 to help you and how do you return the favor? Oh and are you and the jets the only teams not to own i.e. and TravellingCari 03:14, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I ment to tell you that when we win, you're not supposed to lose! Yankees owe me tomorrow and Sunday - they're 1-3 with me there this season although the W was a big one over the Sox in April. L to the Mutts, Angels and Jays. Don't know that I've ever seen ChiSox live -- the last time I saw the Birds was a big one too. TravellingCari 19:29, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Penis Insertion

Penis Insertion - I apologize, but I simply could not resist inserting my penis on the talk page of Wasilla Assembly of God (in the appropriate place). In fact, if a vandal were to take out the p (p as in pun, not pee), there is a WANK in the first aka header line of the Keeper76 talk page, too. EricDiesel (talk) 17:11, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Good, bad, or ugly?

Resolved: Apparently, it was good, bad, and ugly. And gone :-)

I created MediaWiki:Editnotice-0-Awesome, a header for Awesome.

I just want to know what you guys think, since I have never made one of those before.

You can see what the it looks like here. J.delanoygabsadds 22:45, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Just to weigh in here - I think it does a splendid job of its intention - warding off the urge to put in silly vandalism. Wisdom89 (T / C) 22:48, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Wether it works or not at least you can say you tried. If I were godking of teh wiki I'd sign off on it.--KojiDude (C) 22:52, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Looks like it didn't work, I just saw this. Useight (talk) 04:40, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, I tried... I deleted it, since it obviously has no effect. *sigh* J.delanoygabsadds 04:46, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
This is better. Protonk (talk) 22:54, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
While I seem to be outvoted 3-1, is it really necessary? Aside from Sarah P (and I believe Keeper has heard my opinion of that header, too), I can't think of any other article that has one; even our "vandalism high-score table" articles, like George W. Bush, 2008 and Wikipedia, get on fine without one. I've no problem with it from a technical point of view, but it seems like process creep. – iridescent 22:55, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
I honestly take pride in the fact that United States and Jesus are in the top 5.</sidetracking>--KojiDude (C) 22:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
That said, on the most recent update, Current World Wrestling Entertainment employees has edged ahead of both… – iridescent 23:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
In all seriousness, I do agree with iridescent. I don't think this is needed, nor do I really think that it will stop a significant portion of vandalism on that article. Not because the people doing it are unrepentant jerks, but just because no one reads warnings anyway. Protonk (talk) 23:02, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
So, nuke it? (BTW, I like Protonk's idea. /me looks desperately for an appropriate FUR...) J.delanoygabsadds 23:56, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Believe me, I so wanted to make an svg knockoff to link it inline here, but I'm just not that talented. :) Protonk (talk) 00:02, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

gotta vent


[9] Keeps, I am PEEVED right now. (I have left a note to that effect on his talk page but it hasn't helped my peevosity any. Thus, I bring it to AN/K.) I was NOT BITEy; my comment certainly wasn't "trash"; and this Wily person does NOT know me like that. We have had similar convos re: classes of COLLEGE students, by god; what on the round blue EARTH makes anyone think it applies LESS to a pack of fourteen-year-olds???? And--sorry, but where exactly was the BITE? It was a reasoned comment explaining my concerns.

Now, granted, I am in a generalized state of honked-offed-ness today; I woke up on the wrong side of the bed; went to work and was aggravated, prodded, besieged, belabored, and irked; and came home to hungry hungry cats and the realization that I'd missed a much-hoped-for phone call from....okay, yannowut, that's TMI, and WAY too complicated to explain. But dammit, I'm CRANKY, is my point, and even when I'm NOT cranky I don't appreciate having my commments referred to as "trash"!!! :::snarl:::

(Please mark as "Resolved". No Keeperpedian action is expected, requested, or required. I just had to let off a little steam here. ARRRRGH!)Gladys J Cortez 01:33, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Is this a general ventillation section for all? EricDiesel (talk) 02:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Methinks so, yeppers.Gladys J Cortez 02:41, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
OK then...
Old faithful geyser.jpg

Aahhh, that's much better. EricDiesel (talk) 02:59, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

  • I just assumed that he made that edit summary to refer to comments responding to kurt's response and that had I not removed Kurt's response he would have just removed the whole lot (as in, all three comments at once). Sure, he could have used a better edit summary, but I don't think it was directed at you, Gladys. Protonk (talk) 02:48, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
    • I'm reading this the way Protonk is reading it. He was removing a response to a redacted comment. Without the redacted comment, your response didn't "work" there. Trash was a bad choice of words, should have said "taking the recycling down to the curb to save the Earth from swollen, rotting landfills". Keeper ǀ 76 14:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Need to make use of some of those high-paid admin skills

I've been working on cleaning up a mess of an article, Syracuse University. You'll get a laugh out of this, but I always hated the article, but I just assumed it was impossible to clean up a university article to FA status. Then I noticed Georgetown University, hated rivals, were at FA status. And then I knew it could be done. So, I've been working on the article with assistance from another editor who's registered. But there are constant revisions of whole sections, rather than fine tuning the writing, from IP editors who don't seem to know what is to follow FA guidelines. Can you semi-protect for a bit, so that I can finish the editing. Then, once it expires, we can work through any adjustments to my rewritten article. Can you give me a couple of weeks free from IP editors, who don't appear to check their talk page or engage in discussion, to finish? Whatever you can do will be appreciated. Please note the exceedingly high level of professionalism and courtesy I gave you to this request--despite the fact you said you never agree with me. LOL. And Boeheim does rock. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 14:30, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll read this today or tomorrow too. I looked at the history, the IP editing is annoying, but in a housefly kind of way, not a "Keeper gets dragged to ANI for abusing his protect button" kind of way. Do you want a CE? I promise not to add anything fringe, POV, OR, or non-Orange, but I can probably find a few places that need commas and endashes. Keeper ǀ 76 16:51, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
If you wouldn't mind, CE the Academics section. I just finished that. BTW, the downside to being a well-paid admin is that you have to put up with ANI. Quit whining!OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 21:11, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
But I'm really good at whining...sniffle. That SU article is really bad. Wowsers. I've started a bit, I'll keep going here and there. I'll be taking several sanity/alcohol breaks. Maybe if I paint my face orange I'll feel more inspired. Gonna need more Jack for that. Boeheim's a genius.[citation needed] Keeper ǀ 76 16:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
OM, don't report me to ANI. I didn't add that silly little {{cn}} tag, some other abusive admin did. Check the diffs so you know who needs a good blocking. Keeper ǀ 76 17:15, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I'll look. I bet you now know more about SU than you would ever believe. Thanks!OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 21:57, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I'll say it again, the SU article is a f-ing mess. I'll do my bestm but good lord, is that a mess.... Keeper ǀ 76 22:06, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it's a mess. But if the word "mess" is subjective, then it's less of a mess than it was 2 days ago. It will be readable and high quality within a week. BTW, notice how I threw in the Democratic VP candidate into the article? OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 22:33, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Hard to miss the photo. Heh. Good luck at FA with the photo intact. Heh. Keeper ǀ 76 01:04, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


You've got it all wrong, Keeper. That's not what I meant. Do you know what I meant? Obviously not. Heh heh heh. Bye. --WeezleBeezle (talk) 20:36, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

??? Hi, and bye. Wanna be friends????? Keeper ǀ 76 20:43, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
You really don't get it. Stay out of this, Keeper. --WeezleBeezle (talk) 20:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Happy to. I guess that means we aren't friends <insert sad face here...> Keeper ǀ 76 21:00, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
I didn't mean it that way. We can be friends. --WeezleBeezle (talk) 21:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Oh, joy! My day is complete. Looking at your contribs, WeezleBeezle, the only things I see you doing is going around and asking others to be your friend (in April, and now again in September). Are you planning on making the encyclopedia a better resource, or are you planning on continuing to spam other user's talkpages? Honest question. Keeper ǀ 76 21:05, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
No, I have some real edit ideas. This comes first, though. --WeezleBeezle (talk) 20:26, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm not a big fan of guessing games. You've made it quite clear that you are "someone else", trying to get others to guess who you are. Stop wasting others' time, eh? I'm glad you're having fun, but really, this is annoying. Move along, find some articles to work on please. Keeper ǀ 76 20:30, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Keeper, yikes! That's not what I meant when I was talking to EVula. I was talking about that I'm someone he knew from a while ago! It's his little mini-game, not yours! Your friend, --WeezleBeezle (talk) 20:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
If that's true fine. If EVula wants to play your game, fine as well. Please leave my talkpage out of this, and ignore my comments on your talk. Have a good day. Keeper ǀ 76 20:37, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
You have the patience of a saint, Keeper. All I can think of at times like this is how I might respond...disproportionately. ;) Protonk (talk) 20:39, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Heh. I miss Calvin. I was excellent at CalvinBall. I never lost. Keeper ǀ 76 20:41, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


No, it isn't. Never heard of this "JS". --WeezleBeezle (talk) 20:37, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Fine and whatever, I'm moving along and I don't wanna play anymore, please go back to doing whatever useless stuff you were doing with someone that wants to play. Shoo. Keeper ǀ 76 20:43, 18 September 2008 (UTC)