User talk:Keeper76/Archive 3

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Re: AFD Closings

I will be online today at 12:00PM (my time its currently 8:27AM) if you wish to discuss these and I can tell you my rationale for closing these AFD's. Thanks and Happy Editing!! Dustitalk to me 12:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

From what I'm seeing Dusti (mostly on your talkpage and ANI), it sounds like the community would rather you didn't close any more AfDs at all. I'll keep reading/watching the discussion. See you back in a coupla hours. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:16, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm back, if you wish, we can discuss this on my talk page. Dustitalk to me 16:18, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I've already posted there! I'll watchlist your page, no need to post here/talkback or anything. :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


Don't worry, your signature is good too. :) In fact, I even have a "username origin" section on my userpage as well! :) Acalam | ari | Disclaimer

What?! There's original stuff on Wikipedia? Tan | 39 15:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Oooohh. Sig looks good !Squid.....(just read your origins. :-). I've always pictured "Acalamari" as a-calamari. From now on though, after reading that, I'll be sure to mind-speak it as Ac-ala-mari. Kinda like Pie ala mode!  :-). Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:41, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Heh. :) That's how I've always pronounced my username. :) Acalam | ari | Disclaimer


Thanks for helping with the Dustihowe situation... bleh, not fun. :\ EVula // talk // // 15:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

My Solution

Some may object to this, and I hope you don't, but I feel that this is the best way to continue. I am going to sit down, calm down, and start over. I would like for you to agree to be my "AFD Coach" if you will, and help me through the Non-Admin AFD Closing process. The way this will work is exactly like what we have done before. I come to you with a list of AFD's that I feel should be closed (as a keep obviously) and you either reject or support my decision. If its rejected, then instead of telling me why, I have to tell you why (to build on my knowledge). What do you think? I'm trying to build myself here instead of accepting defeat. I wish to help with AFD as the expierence will be great if I ever have a successful RFA. Dustitalk to me 17:25, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

My immediate thoughts. Right now, you've (right or wrong) attracted some negative attention from a slew of editors/admins. In a way, I have been your "AfD coach", informally, for the last couple of months, before this latest group of reversed closures. I will agree to this with two conditions:
  1. We don't start for one month. No closures for one month, regardless of how obvious "keep" they are. During that month, I want you to do something else. I want you to participate in the discussions instead of closing them. I want you to help "save" articles that are nominated by finding sources, and help "delete" articles that are unsourcable/violate policy. Not just "!vote per nom" type stuff, but actually using your growing policy knowledge to prove that you have opinons on the topics and not just opinions on the closing of the discussions.
  2. After that month (assuming it goes well), I'll do what you've asked me to do, which is support or reject your proposed non-admin closes. We'll do that a couple of times per week for a couple of months. Twice per week, for 8 weeks, or 16 sessions, maybe 3-5 potential closes per session. If that goes well, I'll co-nom you for adminship myself (assuming your actual admin coach feels you are ready in other areas that I'm not aware of or participating in).

What do you think? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree, sounds great to me!!! Dustitalk to me 17:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I saw this and it looks good to me, kudos to you for taking this on, Keep. You have to admire Dusti's tenacity to be a top-notch editor. Not that you necessarily care what I think, Dusti ;-) Tan | 39 18:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Of course I do Tan, or I would have simply deleted ignored your comment. :) Dustitalk to me 18:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh, almost forgot, thanks for the editing comment ;) Dustitalk to me 18:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I am totally satisfied with Keeper's outline. I trust him to do a good job coaching. EVula // talk // // 18:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I think he will have excellent guidance. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
This sounds like a great solution to the whole disagreement. Yay to both of you. :) ~ mazca talk 20:59, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your vote of approval. Have we met? I don't recognize your username...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:07, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
No, we haven't. I kinda stumbled across this non-admin-closure discussion while browsing AfD earlier and I was just happy to see it end in such a positive way. ~ mazca talk 21:27, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Excellent! In that case, welcome, and it's nice to meet you. Let me know if you ever need anything! Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:32, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Your !Official! Barnstar

Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar.png The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
for your patience, kindness, and caring of Wikipedians. You don't hesitate to hit that rollback button either :) Thanks Keeper, your one of a kind! Cheers (hope I can use that) Dustitalk to me 18:41, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Sweet. Thanks Dusti, much appreciated....don't make me block you :-). Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
No worries, I'm gonna close this one AFD though, its just killing me (STOP, FREEZE, BACK AWAY FROM THAT BLOCK BUTTON!!!! I'M JUST KIDDING) maybe....nope, just kidding. God, I love taunting you, now where was that AFD at? Dustitalk to me 19:01, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
) ...good ... everyones ok here. Well... back to the front lines. PM> --Pmedema (talk) 04:36, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


While in most cases, he doesn't respond to the ensuing complaints, he has responded in a number of RfAs. Remember, he's done the same in hundreds of RfAs, so you've only seen a few of them. I've gone through many old RfAs, and I've discovered several where Kurt did in fact reply and explain himself. Those were mostly older ones, although I did see the recent one where he replied. Enigma message Review 19:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure you're right. I've just never researched that far back. The whole point, IMO, is that he is entitled to his opinion, the 'crats will do with him as they please, and beyond that, I don't really give a rip anymore. Cheers! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I have no opinion anymore. I just wish people would stop talking about it. Huge waste of time. Just left a message here to mention that he has indeed returned to respond to comments. Enigma message Review 21:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: Whaa???

Hey Keeper,

I'll take that assumption as a compliment... although no I'm not an admin, never been one, never requested. I've enjoyed involving myself in various areas of wikipedia recently and dare I say it... may like to become an admin one day (don't tell Kurt). Now would surely be premature due to edit count, although I'm curious as to what other areas I may be lacking in prior to any potential RfA in the future. Gwynand | TalkContribs 20:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe I've been involved in any controversy, although I have commented on many and like to research them, discuss them. I followed the Mantanmoreland arbcom very closely, for example. My edits are at about 1,000. I may fall victim to doing a lot of reading/researching before I post or comment. For example, I go through RfA's almost every day and research many applicants, but often abstain from voting at all because I don't feel comfortable going either way, and won't vote neutral if I don't have something meaningful to add. Ultimately, this means I do quite a bit of "work" on wikipedia, but often produce few edits from it. That being said, I've picked up speed in editing over the past few months and don't think it will be long before I get to 2k, and then to 3k edits. I've been using Wikipedia for years, reading and studying its policy, etc, but without much involvement until the past year. And yes, Gwynand is my first account (you can see many of my first few edits were quite noobish). I've considered coaching, or at least a form of it. I'd like suggestions on how I can diversify my qualifications more... things I can do to better help the project, but not things that will just technically help my RfA chances. Gwynand | TalkContribs 20:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I thank you for your interest. I just took a look at my edit breakout (you got me interested) and it seems I have healthy ratios. I'm in the mainspace more than half the time, etc. I guess what I'd ask from you is to keep my talk page on watch, when you get a chance, see how I interact with others. I think one of the main things I would like to do with admining would deal with blocking, unblocking, and finding consensus at AfDs. All require immense civility and balance, while still willing to get your hands dirty and make a decision to move things along. So, I'd like to have eyes on me seeing how I deal with others as much as possible. I'd certainly like to get to at least 3k edits before even considering a nomination from someone. Gwynand | TalkContribs 21:18, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I had considered being coached, but really only when the right admin came along that I was fairly sure I agreed with regarding their judgment. Do you coach? I'm not actually sure what it entails, but I'd consider it if you wanted to coach. Gwynand | TalkContribs 21:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, I'm not in a rush to be coached, so maybe I'll wait. I'm hesitant to ask for coaching on that board, I wouldn't want to reject an admin that maybe I might not want to be coached by (Im not sure why I'd do that, but I might). That being said, now that I'm thinking about it, I might approach another admin sometime to request service. If you finish up your coaching of any editor in the near future and want to take on another, let me know. Gwynand | TalkContribs 21:35, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Cool, thanks. Actually, maybe I'll just run today, and then argue with everyone who opposes me over editcountitis. That's a surefire way to pass!Gwynand | TalkContribs 21:39, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Diet mountain dew

You like diet mountain dew I hear. All fav drink. Buy a case whenever its on sale at Target. None of my friends can understand why I like it, but its so smooth and sweet, but not sugary or sticky. Well I thought I'd just hit and run on your talk page. MBisanz talk 08:03, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Mmm, tasty. I like having a thread called gets even weirder though, for me. I prefer DMD room temperature, as it maximizes the flavor. Smooth (not eye burningly bubbly), sweet but no sugar, although Def Leppard wouldn't approve...I buy mine at Sam's Club by the case of 24oz bottles. Around 10 bucks (equivalent of 2 cases of cans). Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:15, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
You never cease to amaze me Keeper! I still say Diet Coke is better! Dustitalk to me 16:15, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I will admit that I've greatly enjoyed a Caffeine Free Diet Coke over ice in the evening. Or as my wife calls it, Liquid CrackTM. I like DMD, but not CFDMD. I like CFDC, but not DC. Make sense? No...but that is the mystery that is Keeper....:-)Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:48, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Are you an alien? Dustitalk to me 16:57, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
When have I every claimed to be human?. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:03, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Have you noticed my post here? Lemme know what you think. Dustitalk to me 17:35, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
What about my suggestion? Do you feel that it was right or should something else be done? Dustitalk to me 18:14, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Check out the newest message on my page regarding the article Dustitalk to me 19:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I replied there. At this point, dusti, I would stay out of it as much as you can. (How did they land on your talkpage in the first place? Reply here) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Honestly, I don't know. I just know that I logged in and saw I had new messages and batta bing batta boom! there was the request. Is there a way to move the convo from my talk page? I mean, I have nothing to do with itDustitalk to me 20:06, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Nah, no need to move it off your talk, do you have an auto-archiver? If so, it will disappear to archive-land soon enough. Also, I like your Beakman's World reference there. Batta bing, batta boom! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes I have auto archive but if the convo continues then it wont be auto archived to archive land, batta bing batta boom! (can I close just one AFD? lol j/k I've had my fill of that for awhile) Dustitalk to me 20:31, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Nah, leave it. And don't you dare close anything before May 10th. (I know you're joking). I will block you. I mean it. No warning, no WTF on your talkpage, nothing but a block. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:34, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Desperatley hitting rollback :) I know, just pulling your chain. Dustitalk to me 20:36, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

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General RfC question

Looking for some clarification. If I am perusing RfC's, see one, go to the page and comment, how appropriate (or not) is it for me to be bold and go ahead and edit the page. For the recent one I checked, there was no dispute on the talk page, but rather an editor who thought there were too many uses of similar photos. No one disagreed with him, or talked with him at all, that's why he submitted to RfC. Another editor also thought 2 of the 3 pics should be removed, as I agreed in a comment. Then I went to the article and removed the pics (not ignoring any disagreement... there appeared to be no disagreement). Does this seem proper, or if I am using RfC to offer my thoughts, should I avoid editing the articles in question? Can't find policy on this one way or the other. Gwynand | TalkContribs 15:44, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm assuming (looking at your contribs) that you are talking about this article? If that is the case, I don't think you did anything improper, as it was looking rather obvious. A good fix. I would however, since the Rfc was only a day old, keep it watchlisted and be willing to revert yourself (or be reverted) if at some point an editor comes along and contests the image removal. It would be better to put the extra pics back in the article so that others that are commenting can see the context of the three pictures, then once consensus is re-reached, re-remove. (so many re's....) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll definitely keep an eye on it to see if there is any objection, and if so, will discuss accordingly. Gwynand | TalkContribs 16:41, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Tom Poleman

Google News Archive
Shows Tom Poleman notable.
Please restore the page.
--DHowell (talk) 02:34, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey there, DHowell. This article was deleted following an AfD discussion that was unanimous to delete. I hesitate to recreate it. I have looked at the deleted content. The article was a WP:BLP article that was approximately 3 sentences long, with no references and no assertion of notability. If you have found references (I haven't looked at your google news search personally), recreate the article in your userspace, with those references, and then take the AFD to Deletion review if you wish, along with your new version. (And of course, as I'm sure you know, simply recreating the article could end up deleted as a G4 deletion), which I wouldn't want to happen if Mr Poleman is notable. Thanks! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
"Discussion" lasted
Not 4 hours, no chance to prove
I hoped you'd restore
"No matter what," you said.
I'll just recreate.
Found cached article,
Info verifiable.
I'll add references.
--DHowell (talk) 05:48, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I have started a
Deletion review of your
Speedy deletion.
--DHowell (talk) 07:41, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Excellent Haiku. Simply superb. Commented as much at DRV. Hope it works out! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:04, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Deletion review question

Hi, I posted a question for you here: Thanks, Hobit (talk) 18:49, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi Hobit, I participated in several discussions there, help a guy out? A better link? Which topic? (too lazy to search...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:53, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
  • I said this: "I'm still unclear how the article by Suburu isn't independent of the group. It seems to be a perfectly fine 3rd party reliable source." Search should work....
Ah, of course. The Subaru stuff. I've moved on. I will say that the "article by Subaru" may be independent of the group, don't know for sure, haven't read it/analyzed it. It seems upon reading the DRV that it isn't clear that it is or isn't. I'll read the DRV again, but I likely won't post again, life's too short. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:06, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


LOL! That's classic--I left you a q about a Caillou reversion, probably AS you were typing yr poison pen-letter about him!! :) Yeah, I hate the little nit too...I watchlisted all the PBSKids stuff, and he's an unfortunate addition. So--what's the story with that IP? Any good reason I shouldn't warn the heck out of him? Gladys J Cortez 16:31, 12 April 2008 (UTC) of my edits got eaten, as well! Wiki-crossfire is a deadly thing... Anyhow, I was going to say--if you think Caillou's disturbing, might I suggest Yo Gabba Gabba, Gina D's Kids' Club, or Boobah? Now THERE's some disturbing stuff. Oh--and any of the religious kids' stuff on EWTN. I'm actually working on a project critiquing kids' programs from an adult's POV--kind of a "Kids' Television Without Pity" thing. Gladys J Cortez 16:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Curses--foiled in my dastardly plan! :) (You'll look. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but sooner or later--you'll look. Especially when I tell you that one of the main characters on Yo Gabba Gabba looks like a giant warty anthropomorphic red schlong.) Gladys J Cortez 17:07, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

RFA thanks

Thanks for your support in my RFA, that didn't quite make it and ended at 120/47/13. There was a ton of great advice there, that I'm going to go on. Maybe someday. If not, there are articles to write! Thanks for your support. Lawrence § t/e 17:56, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I've already replied on your talk, before this talkspam :-) 72% is no small feat, could've gone either way, IMO. Looking forward to supporting (and looking forward to bluelinking) Rfa #2. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:58, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

re: admin's noticeboard comments

Thanks for having the common sense to say "chill out and drop it" on AN, after seeing some of David's comments I was seriously worried this was heading towards community sanction or a block. I've certinally learned my lesson from this situation. Mister Senseless (Speak - Contributions) 18:18, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure you noticed as well that I commented on David's talkpage. Hopefully, all will end well. I'm a huge advocate of "move on". I presume you'll be more careful in speedy tags and Afd noms, and I presume he'll be more careful in "language use" regarding your contribs to this project. Best wishes, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:21, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

RFA Thanks

Thank you for your comments on my RFA. Even though it failed with 28 supports, 42 opposes, and 15 neutrals, I am grateful for the suggestions and advice I have received and I do hope to improve as a Wikipedian. If you ever need my help in any endeavor, feel free to drop me a line. --Sharkface217 19:59, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

A polite request...

Hi Keeper - I have done a lot of vandal fighting recently, and am engaged in protecting a variety of articles. I wondered if I might be afforded rollback privileges (the right term, hopefully!) ? It's just for the vandal-fighting, and will make my life a lot easier/more productive. I do, however, completely understand if you don't feel that you can give them to me for any reason. Just jumping on you as the first admin I could think of! Fritzpoll (talk) 20:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

replied +rollback on your talkpage Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:22, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

My RfA...

Thank you...
...for your participation in my RFA, which closed with 85 supports, 2 neutrals and 1 oppose. I'm extremely grateful for all the the kind comments from so many brilliant Wikipedians I've come to respect and admire, as well as many others I've not yet had the pleasure of working with, and I'll do my best to put my shiny new mop and bucket to good use! Once again, thank you ;)
EyeSerenetalk 16:56, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Your Help Is Needed

Please see my talk page, this page, and this page. Its gone too far for me to try and handle. Dustitalk to me 20:30, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

You did the right thing bringing in outside assistance. I've replied on your talkpage, but that is a real mess. Hopefully, Collectonian or Arcayne brings it to ANI, it needs wider input. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:24, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I submitted the AN/I here. Agreed, it is convoluted, but most dynamic IP user issues are. One think I am hoping out of this is that the anon creates an ID and edits from there from now on. Of course, that would mean his edit history would be centrally located, instead of to Hell and Back,making it unlikely that an admin would knuckle down to see the devil in the details. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 23:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC) (mixing metaphors and martinis)
Such is the problem with roving IPs. Sigh. I'll keep things watched of course, but I'm no expert by any means. Thanks, Arcayne, for bringing this to wide-eyes. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 23:19, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi from the anonymous user. The additions that I suggested and were contested were, Movie Credits in the Infobox, supporting Flagicons on a "Response" page and civilly debating a citation that was written in different ways on different websites. I'm surprised to see them compared to the poorly written Anti-Hirsi Ali and decidedly pro-Islamic writings of Zencv.

I'll suggest that the system is being manipulated to benefit a single users obsessive vendetta against another. I'm sorry that you must waste your valuable time and resources on such a baseless accusation. (talk) 23:22, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
You're sorry? I'm not sorry. This is what I do. And I like it :-). If you have a specific beef with someone else, lay it on me, I'll help where I can. Be warned though, I'm a "tell it like it is" kind of guy. I can be rather brutal if necessary.... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 23:25, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I just looked at Dusti's links - I have no idea how, or why, Collectonian has been included in this. I can now understand his confusion.

In point of fact, I have been quoting Collectonian and using him to support my position that is at the heart of my dispute with Arcayne. Here is a citation to support this:[1]. I am curious how Dusti came to arrive at this? (talk) 00:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Let me know when you want my input, Keeper. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 00:41, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
You don't need my permission, Arcayne! Jump in anytime, and wherever, you see fit. For now, upon reading the posts by anon, collectonian, dusti, etal, I think personally this is a pretty clear cut case of "protect" Shamrock, Texas. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 00:44, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Err, the matter has nothing at all to do with Shamrock, Texas, Keeper. I think the confusion arose from two instances.
The first was the anon 216 assuming that the discussion about the anon75's UserTalk page was about the Shamrock article. Clearly it isn't.
The second instance was anon75's somewhat non-sequitur post, insisting that the "heart of (his) dispute" with me was a post by Collectonian in the RS policy discussion page (the section containing the discussion, though a tangent, being located [here).
In some ways, it is the heart of my problem with the anon75, in terms of overall view of how he tends to interpret wiki matters. The anon has had some issues with a number of editors in the Fitna article. Long before I came to the article, the anon (like the IPs listed on the IP banner on his UserTalk page) was posting contentious and uncivil remarks in both article and discussion spaces. When I arrived and made a few edits, s/he accused me of removing citations from the article and called me a vandal. As I am a recovering Angry Poster, I quickly recognized the angry mastodon in the room and explained calmly my edits. When the anon didn't let up but became even more inappropriate, I admit that I began to care somewhat less for withholding All the Harsh, but at no point did I cross the civility line.
Long story short, I ended up being #1 on the anon's shitlist. I noted the relational aspects of some of the IPs being used to post within the discussion and article and filed an RfCU. The anon admitted that the IP range was his/hers, and it was noted to be part of a dynamic IP range from the same ISP - essentially, the anon continually restarted the modem and continued editing as if nothing had changed. Aside from the acknowledgment of the IPs, nothing else came of the request, and intentional sockpuppetry wasn't considered.
This wouldn't be a huge problem but for the fact that the user pointedly did not sign their name to their posts (using, occasionally the '♠' imagery, as if s/he were like Prince and had invented the image). As well, compounding the problem was that the anon had some "civility issues" within the Fitna and Fitna-related articles. Occasionally, editors (myself included) would post requests for civility, cessation of personal attacks, etc. - all of which would vanish when the anon rebooted his/her modem and reposted in the article. Any admin investigating (in that 60-second style) would see no history of complaint in the edit history, and pass on it as an intermittent issue. Additionally, the anon user would (obviously) agree with his/her previous IP calls for resolution and resolve the matter, leaving the impression that there was a massive groundswell of support for the anon's pov.
Realizing that some sort of record needed to be kept, I created an IP banner on the anon's page and ported over (with links to the original IP discussion pages) the UserTalk discussions from the prior IPs, so as to note patterns in the comments being posted to the anon (mostly requests for the anon to sign their posts, suggestions to start an account and civility warnings). As the anon changed IP's, I moved the banner and discussions to the new User/UserTalk pages, respectively.
Meanwhile, the anon's behavior in discussion worsened, tending to focus on MantisEars, PelleSmith and myself. The anon filed an AN/I complaint against me (presumably in retaliation for the RfCU, which he kept on about). When he didn't get the 'let's lynch that mofo' reaction he was expecting from the admins, he continued to argue the point and filed another AN/I, right after the first one. That also went nowhere.
This led to a spiraling downwards of AGF for the anon, and his posts indicated as much. Pretty quickly after that, he started calling me "troll" and a vandal. He prepeatedly removed (reverting 7 times) the IP banner and discussions, stating the I was alternately "colonizing" and "conquering" his UserTalk. After the 7th revert, Dusti stepped in and called a halt to matters. I requested assistance in Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Admin_assistance_requested_at_anon.27s_talkpage AN/I.
And now we are here. If I missed anything of value, I am quite sure the anon will add it. I rather imagine he is waiting for me to post. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 05:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, that certainly clears it up :-) my first shot was an airball, I apparently was a bit glossy yesterday. I'll assume that the IP posting above is the IP in question? I'll watchlist some things at this point. Any immediate action needed, Arcayne? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:20, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I have had a pretty busy day and haven't been able to do anything (i.e. log on) and just found this. Sorry to put you in this Keeper, but I didn't feel comfortable doing this. I was doing somoe RC patroll and found where Collectonian had deleted the entire talk page, inquired about it, and batta bang batta boom :) found myself in the middle of a huge mess. What have you been able to figure out so far? Dustitalk to me 17:53, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
If you mean the IP in the AN/I complaint ( (talk · contribs) - I don't know who the 216. anon is. He's prolly just a bit confused, as well.). - Arcayne (cast a spell) 19:53, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


Hello, as you said a while ago, you said to change my signature. I have been trying to mature, so I took your offer. Comments? BTW, I will probably switch between the two sigs also.--RyRy5 (talk) 00:20, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, how refreshing! Good to see a signature that's the same size as the rest of the text on my talkpage. Glad to see your increasing maturity. Best of luck to you RyRy. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 00:36, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. I'm trying my best to do so. But my I have your opinion on this article I created a while ago? It was just decided to be kept at the AFD.--RyRy5 (talk) 01:16, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Article looks good! I see your name in the history many times, nice work - keep it up! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Could it be? (OT)

both our teams will win on the same night? :o In other words, hi :) I think your talk page was feeling neglected, I hadn't pestered you in a few days! TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 01:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe your team one, did they not? Mine gave up not one, but two 5 run leads. Up 5-0, Toothless Tigers came back 5-4. Up 9-4 one inning later, Toothless Tigers came back, winning 11-9. Not a good night for Keeper, who watched with disdain his favorite pitcher fall apart for the second time this early season....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:11, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Ouch! Yankees managed to blow a 7-1 but held on to win 8-7 thanks to a pinch hit homer by Robinson Cano. They're stuffed without Joba Chamberlain until he comes back from bereavement leave because other than he and Mo, they have no bullpen. At least they're starting to hit. Better luck for your boys soon, I hope. At least until they play one another. Don't think that's for a while though TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 14:50, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Memorial day weekend, in Minnie. Ticket prices generally double for NYY, MIL, BOS home games, called "premium selections" or some tripe. NYY series sold out anyway (gotta love capitalism... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:10, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm going tomorrow night against the Sox, all hail StubHub, actually paid less than face which made me happy TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 15:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for the support.--Kumioko (talk) 17:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome! Sorry it didn't go as intended. I agree that a large number of the oppose section was rather arbitrary and unfair. Best of luck to you, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Publius Enigma

Keeper... If you have a moment, could you please attend Talk:Publius Enigma#Publius Enigma regarding an editor who I feel is trying to introduce original research to an article that SERIOUSLY needs to be re-evaluated under WP:RS in some of the areas. There are some pretty good citations in the article and I know that it passes WP:N but this other editor is trying to intoduce stuff, uncited with the uncivil response of "page WILL be kept up to date, properly organized, and accurate. Any continued attempts to impede this will be met swiftly and with prompt attention" I would like your opinion an/or anyone elses regarding this. I may be wrong so... if you or anyone else has the time to look at the changes and the arguments, please do. Thanking you in advance --Pmedema (talk) 18:08, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

You rang? Oh... I see. Enigma message Review 18:11, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I've posted at Chinagreenelvis's talkpage. Hopefully, he/she will be become a collaborative and constructive editor. I have him/her watchlisted. Thanks Pmedema. As friendly advice, I'll also advise you to keep your cool. (You have so far, I just don't want you to get too frustrated by a new user that doesn't know the wikiway yet). There isn't a single article in the place that rises to emergency level. Don't violate the civility policy or 3RR policy over Pink Floyd, a couple of IPs and a new user... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Naaa... don't worry. That's why I went the way that I did. I know... it's not worth stressing and I won't. Thanks for your input.--Pmedema (talk) 19:38, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Me Me Me

So if you look at my userpage, you'll see I added a lot of details about myself. I assume you can guess why. MBisanz talk 19:02, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

You handsome devil. :-) I still refuse to read WR....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:14, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe take a look?

If you get a chance, could you take a look here on the A/NI board. I'm trying to deal with a report over -- on the surface -- a poor editing procedure. I believe I've addressed that to a point with the violater and he has agreed to look for consensus in the future. However, a second editor is upset with uncivil arguments that have been taking place and believes the issue demands closer attention now. Specifically, he requests an admin to take a look. See what you make of it if you have time. As always, if you have any feedback on my handling, I'd appreciate the critique. Gwynand | TalkContribs 19:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Ick. More later. (reading...) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Seems Avruch stole the template I was gonna add. Marked it resolved as "wrong venue", +colorful language. Your posts were elegant, direct, accurate, calm, civil, well spoken and well received. Excellent traits in a future admin...:P Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Please Full Block My Talk Page

I'm not sure what is happening, but someone is creating account after account is leaving threats, ect on my talk page. I see that you responded to one, however, they are continuing. Thanks in advance, Dustitalk to me 20:14, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

The user you warned about WP:NLT has again commented on my page. Dustitalk to me 20:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I've made many comments, including one to the AFD subpage with some advice. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Keeper76. You have new messages at Dustihowe's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

While you're marking issues resolved on WP:ANI


This has not been resolved as of yet, the only administrator who has commented is intimately involved. An edit war has resulted, please review the situation for me. KV(Talk) 21:19, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I won't have time today (going offline soon), and my plate is rather full. Sorry I can't be of much help, I've too many threads going to be useful. Sorry. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello, how are you doing?

Hey, it's been a while. How is it going? Jerry talk ¤ count/logs 22:11, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I think I'm doing well? Uh oh, did you see something? Now I'm nervous.... :) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 22:14, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh gosh, I come by to talk and you feel like you're in trouble? How awful. I was just saying "hi". I've been in a terrible wikimood for a few weeks due to an incivil DRV where I got bashed, and I've been avoiding the project pretty much for some time, now. I decided to try to get back to the people who matter and are always good wikipedians and focus on those wikirelationships, hence the drop-by. The results were a little the polar opposite of my expectation, it seems. Jerry talk ¤ count/logs 01:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Sorry 'bout my post above. I hate DRV. It reminds me of mall floors. You know what I'm talking about. As soon as my feet hit the floor inside a mall (usually dragged by my wife), I can literally feel the life being sucked out the bottom of my shoes. Such is DRV. Sucks the life outta me. On that pleasant note, glad you consider me a "good wikipedian" :) If you don't mind me asking, which review was it? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:16, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I know exactly what you mean about malls. The DRV in question was Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2008 March 29#Megalithic geometry. It is water under the bridge, but I am still licking my wounds. Jerry talk ¤ count/logs 17:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Wow, that's just gross. What a mess, and on your birthday....sorry it got so ugly, you're getting a cookie....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:41, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Heh, much better than a cookie, indeed. Hey, if you have time, a few DRV's are way overdue for closing from the 5th of April. I am involved in both (as participant or interested party), so I can not close them. I don't want to influence you at all, I just would like to see them get closed. I added the adminbacklog template yesterday, but they are still there, attracting flies. Again, thanks for the ale. Jerry talk ¤ count/logs 00:34, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
(so many colons!)I looked over the 2. The first one is a clear "endorse", the second one is probably an "undelete", but I'm going to restrain myself because of the perception of influence. I completely 100% know you have the right mindset, and wouldn't be upset if I closed against your position, but I'm still going to abstain. I'm hopeful someone will come along soon though, they've grown stale I agree. Sorry friend, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:14, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh, that's cool. I didn't mean to impose, I just think the normal closers don't see them , because one summary page that exists only shows the ones that are less than 10 days old. And only one of those are me as closer, but of course I have no problem with anyone accurately determining consensus that happens to be adverse to 'my position'. I do get kinda upset when people use DRV as an admin roast, though, as you have probably seen. Jerry talk ¤ count/logs 02:36, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

This is another of a series of IP addresses that's following the same theme. Feel free to block this looney tune. [2] P.S. I'm keeping his stupid messages on my talk page, just for history reasons. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:20, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Never mind, Gwernol took care of it. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
yeah, sorry. I went to the talk page, deleted the 88,000 bits of tripe that that particular anon had posted there. He/she reverted, I reverted. At that point, I was too involved to block, and assumed someone else would come along shortly. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:45, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
"And just like that... Poof! He's gone." For 24 hours, anyway. Do you recognize that quote? :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 18:33, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I probably should. Brains fried. Help a fella out? It'll bug me otherwise...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:36, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
The Usual Suspects, referring to Keyser Soze. That's all I'll say, if you haven't seen it. And if you haven't, you should. It's excellent. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 18:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah, one of my favorites. I feel foolish now. Actually, I've watched every other Spacey film since then, hoping for some semblence of the genius that was the Usual Suspects. 99% of the time, grossly disappointed. Pay it Forward? KPAX? American Beauty? All screen vomit compared to Usual Suspects. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:48, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Which just goes to show how much of the apparent "genius" of an actor is actually dependent on the quality of the writing. I actually watched Suspects for the first time on video, some years ago, and as soon as it ended, I had to rewind it and watch it again. I wouldn't do that with those other films. Old-fashioned opinion: I was watching Forrest Gump on AMC recently, marveling at how good it is. And comparing it with stuff like American Beauty and No Country for Old Men, which I consider vastly inferior, and wondering whatever happened to the film industry. Everyone likes different things, though, that's just my view. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 18:58, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

<outdent>Well. So far, you've named two of my current top 5. Usual Suspects, Forrest Gump (don't even get me started about how perfect that movie is), Waiting for Guffman, Bottlerocket, and Shawshank Redemption, in no particular order. Zoolander is a close 6th, depending on my mood. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:02, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

update - Haven't seen No Country yet (it's in my queue), but as far as recent films (or at least the last 10 years, of which none of my favs fit), I would say The Departed was stellar, which surprised me. I thought it was a sympathy win, rented it, then started it over again saying WTF just happened? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Don't let me prejudice you against No County for Old Men. Parts of it are good, and parts of it I had issues with. I won't say any more until or if you watch it. I try not to do "spoilers". :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc?
Shawshank Redemption' is excellent, very satisfying. I haven't seen the others you mention. They will go into my queue. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 19:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Spacey's most recent film, 21 (2008 film) was atrocious. The sad thing is that Spacey himself is a large part of what makes the film horrible. Where did Keyser Soze ever run off to after he got in the car with "Kobayishi"? Gwynand | TalkContribs 19:02, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Usual Suspects 2. Damn. Redlink. Just checking. Too optimistic. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:06, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Where did he go? Well, that's just one of those little mysteries. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 19:37, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: Friendly warning - chill out

Users who cannot converse in proper English should not be permitted to contribute. A legitimate encyclopedia would not allow editors who are illiterate (or borderline so). Regarding the user page tags, I was attempting to call into question the accuracy of information contained therein. I have plenty of evidence to back up my claim that that user is incapable of contributing in English at an "advanced" level. I still am perplexed as to why such ignorance is preferred/endorsed here.

Regarding the deletion debate, a similar thing occurred to the real South Harmon Institute of Technology. Elitist snobs attempted to crush the innovative new style of learning taking place at the school. Fortunately, in the film, the underdog triumphed and the college was allowed to continue to exist. They stood up for what they believed was right--and won. It's too bad it was only a movie. For now, it looks like my friends at Wikipedia have succeeded in stifling another voice--and are unable to see past the ends of their noses to see the greater themes upon which they have trampled. This article was not simply about a place in a movie with a funny name. It was about hope for all underdogs and those who have been rejected and had their dreams shattered by elitist snobs. Thanks for helping to keep the elite in power. Dgmjr05 (talk) 18:18, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Not entirley sure what your talking about here, but it sounds like (and now looks like) Keeper asked you to chill out. Looking through your contribs, without looking at them (just the edit summary), your being rude to other users. FYI, if you continue, you may find yourself blocked. I'd take heed of Keepers friendly warning before it becomes something more serious. Dustitalk to me 18:30, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Tambien, hablo Español. Pero, no escribo aquí en esa lengua. Hablo Inglés mejor. I consider all users who curtly dismissed the content of the article elitist. Further, they are hypocritical for criticizing my criticisms. Why am I not allowed to lecture someone on basic English, but it is perfectly acceptable for others to lecture me on Wikipedia's guidelines? Again I mention double standards. Lastly, I would of course not be so bold as to claim outright superior intelligence; but I would be happy to match wits with you any time and see who is indeed more intelligent. Dgmjr05 (talk) 18:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
me hablas Español, y tu? Pero, you must still be civil to other users. Leaving these types of comments in your edit summary can get you into some major trouble. You might want to read this before you go any further. And you dont consider yourself hypocritical for them ciriticizing your criticisms? Dustitalk to me 18:43, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Shazam, y'all! Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 18:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I think I'm going to refrain from correcting the Spanish in the last response. Keeper, I wasn't kidding about a battle of intelligence. Let me know if you are up for the challenge. Dgmjr05 (talk) 19:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Please refrain from posting here. I have no interest in what you are proposing, as you've already lost in my eyes. You are prudish, arrogant, self-righteous, and glib. It takes a lot of what you've dished to get me to rise to this level of vitriol. I'm finished with you, as I said on your talkpage. Go edit some articles. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:11, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

There doesn't need to be a separate article for that fictional school from a fictional movie. That acronym is not even an original idea. Dan Rather repeated the snickering rumor about "Sam Houston Institute of Technology" in his autobiography... 30 years ago. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 12:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks. Good luck with such ultra-agressive accusing-everybody-with-everything, "telling A, doing/thinking/want B" idiots, like User:Tankred. See:[3]. And I beg you to click on this:all right no names. Huh, what a great example (tell A/do B), why I leave. --Rembaoud (talk) 18:48, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. Take a few days, cool down, come back if you feel you can contribute. I won't be looking at the diffs you've provided, nothing personal, just don't want to be involved. Simply deleted per user request, per WP:CSD#U1. Cheers, have a good day, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget this:[4] Run out of reverts? Go IP! Bye. --Rembaoud (talk) 18:52, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

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Do ya think its a bit redundant to have you archives listed twice at the top of this page. I mean if I am really desperate, I'll just run index prefixer to find them. MBisanz talk 08:34, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I find it both redundant and repetitive, for superfluous duplication's sake. Actually, never noticed it as part of talkheader. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:06, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Yet some more help wanted...

I just made this warning edit to Koalorka's talk page. Separate from the content dispute that was discussed on ANI (which by the way he is ignoring suggestions) he is accusing virtually anyone who disagrees with him of being a "Turk Nationalist" in talk and edit summaries. I believe these constitute personal attacks and I've warned him as such. I was going to mention that development on ANI, but I am questioning myself to its relevance. He's had his warning and I suppose if he continues to accuse editors of whatever he will be blocked in the near future. Should I just leave it as is now?Gwynand | TalkContribs 16:05, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Well worded warning. I would simply keep an eye on it at this point. Give him about 10/20 more edits, paying attention to the contents but also the edit summaries. Hopefully, he'll heed the warning. If not, I'll give him a final warning template for civility and disruption/personal attacks. At that point, if he in his next 10 edits continues down the slope, I'll block. Sigh. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. I'm not one of those editors that just can't wait until user:X gets blocked... I think Koalorka may come to his senses and at least stop the personal attacks. Either way, I'll keep my eye on him. Thanks for the help/feedback. Gwynand | TalkContribs 16:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Your input please

Yesterday, I again came across an issue when doing some RC patroll. I noticed in this edit that some edit warring was going. After looking at both users talk pages that they had been warned for this edit warring previously. I posted requests, as you can see above, for these users to cease editing, at least on the article until someone can look at the situation. You were already offline, at least I thought so, so I went to the admin who already warrned the users for him/her to handle. This user refused to cease editing the article, so I continually went in and tried my best to keep the article in the pure form (or how it was before the article went under edit warring) continually asking Fadiga09 to stop editing the page. I recieved no help from anyone else. Today I got on and saw that I was stripped of the Rollback button . What do I do? I was only trying to help and in the process find myself in a mess? I thought I was doing well with it and have used it numerous times to fix my mistakes and revert vandalism. Dustispeak and be heard! 16:08, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm looking into this Dusti. For now, stop doing RC patrol. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Have stopped, right now I'm on idle looking at RFA and will comment on some AFD'sDustispeak and be heard! 16:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I've posted on B's talkpage for feedback. My initial impression is that you went too far with rollback, which is meant for only simple vandalism reversion. It appears you stepped into a messy situation, in good faith tried to stop the war, and in that case, shouldn't have used rollback. A better move would have been going to WP:RFPP or WP:AN3 to get admin eyes on it. I'm hoping for feedback from B, I'll watch your page and his as well. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:26, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
You know how they say hind-sight's 20/20? Yea, at the time, I thought that I was doning the best. Now, my question (and thanks for the kind words on B's talk page) is that I didn't use Rollback in a malicious manner and haven't used it inappropriatley before. Was this just a cautionary remove or permanent? Dustispeak and be heard! 16:28, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Nothing's permanent. I'm hoping for B's input, as I'm sure his action was justified. In the meantime, a lesson learned the hard way I suppose. Next time you stumble into a edit war, don't use rollback. Use noticeboards. Use talkpages. But don't join the edit war (even with good intentions, the result is generally that it just further fuels the ongoing fire). A moderator, be it outside eyes from another editor, or admin, needs to see the potential damage of reverting to one editor's version vs the other's. Using community granted tools to promote one version, or block a user you are in a dispute with, (either rollback or admin tools) is never a good idea. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
And I don't doubt that it was justified as I would do the same thing he did, only differently (if that makes sense). I would warn the user who used the rollback first, and if it happened again - then I would remove it. I'm not crying over it, because I can still do RC Patroll without it, but it was nice to be able to laugh over an IP's vandalism and hit the rollback button that's now missing to my right. Dustispeak and be heard! 16:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

<outdent>Related to this event, I found a couple of your posts to be worded awkwardly, namely this diff and this diff. I know what your intentions are with those two posts, but to say "please stop editing until you are contacted by an administrator", and "an administrator will be here shortly", and "cease until further notice" are generally not within your rights to say. Just my two cents to stick with more precise warnings. Let me know if you want me to explain this better. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I was doing what I could to get them to stop, so a polite but firm request to stop should have worked, and it did for Ultracanalla, but Fediga09 just wouldn't stop until he/she was blocked. Also, does anyone really have the right to say, "Stop Editing". Granted, Admin's can make this happen, but can they say Stop Editing? Dustispeak and be heard! 16:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Generally no, you can't say "stop editing". You can say "stop edit warring", or "stop editing disruptively", even "your edit warring is being reported". But to just say "stop editing", and adding "until further notice", is rather harsh, dontcha think? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Maybe, but considering the circumstances and what I had to work with, what else was I to do. At the time, WP:3RR wasn't going to do much, due to the large number of reports (it would have taken forever), WP:AIV would have been good (looking back) and granted, there is always WP:ANI. Just imagine if these guy's were in the same room!!! EMT's and Police with stun guns and tear gas couldn't have done anything. Dustispeak and be heard! 17:05, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I am considering the circumstances. Yes, there's a backlog at 3RR, but it wouldn't have "taken forever". Even if it did take a couple of hours, even a day, all it would have done is gotten both users blocked instead of one (assuming both continued their war), and you'd still have rollback. First and foremost in moderating a dispute is to realize that there is no emergency. It's one article amidst millions. It will get stopped if reported. I'm not saying you shouldn't leave warnings, leaving a warning when you stumble into an edit war is a good thing, I was merely commenting on the wording of your warning. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
How long do you think it will be until I can get my Rollback back? (almost a tounge twister :-) ). Dustispeak and be heard! 17:11, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Still haven't heard from B. In the meantime, how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? If you can answer this correctly, I'll consider your request. :) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:17, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
If I remember correctly, A Woodchuck would chuck as much wood as he could if a woodchuck could chuck wood. Thanks for the smile :) Did I answer correctly? Dustispeak and be heard! 17:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Nope. The correct answer is of course, a peck of pickled peppers to bring to the girl on the beach. You know who I mean. She sells sea shells by the seashore. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

<outdent> Oh, you mean Sally who sells sea shells by the sea shore, and Peter Piper who picked a pack of pickle peppers? How many pickle peppers did peter piper pick? Dustispeak and be heard! 17:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

The answer is 8. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Congrats, only, I can't change permissions, so your now a 'SUPER ADMIN' :). Now, about my request....Dustispeak and be heard! 17:30, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Meanwhile, do you know how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? I think I know. 0:) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
3!!!, well at least it's my favorite number :) Dustispeak and be heard! 17:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
The correct answer is: "Either all of them, or none of them!" 0:) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 18:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Are you there keep or are you counting pickles? :) Dustispeak and be heard! 18:53, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello? Keeper, wake up!! Are you alive? Dustispeak and be heard!
20:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Here's another one from that subnet that's asking for a block: [5] Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 16:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I especially liked his call for a Vandalism Allicance, even as there's a debate going on where some say that admins are too mean to vandals and that we should give them more chances to "reform". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 16:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah... I was just heading here to comment on your block being lenient, Keeper!  ;-) Given the recent suggestions that users join the "Vandalism Alliance" I'd have thought a schoolblock would've been given! -- JediLofty User ¦ Talk 16:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm probably being too lenient. Such is Keeper. Maybe next time, as I'm sure there'll be one...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:52, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Conventional weapons can cost years, and millions of lives. Here's the solution:

How Wikipedia deals with unrepentent vandals

Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:12, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

If that's the solution you're looking for, you've got the wrong admin. I'm no pacifist, not by a stretch, I'm a never say never (to reform) and probably too lenient in blocking. I rarely do it and have no plans to increase my activity in that arena. Unless the Twins keep losing. :) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
You can pretty much tell in an instant what someone's future is, as an editor. Some apparent vandalism might be tests, so at least one warning is fair, maybe two, but no more. My argument on that page (duly ignored by everyone) is that there's too much time spent on dealing with vandals and not enough spent on actual edits. As far as the Twins go (Twingo?) ... well, there's still 5 months left. Don't give them a permanent mental block yet. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:23, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

And yet another one. [6] Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 18:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

You are a magnet aren't you? Only 2 edits total though, been watching for the last hour. Your userpage got fixed right away, post #2 was actually legit (just needed formatting). Keep an eye out though, it might change again...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it must have just been a drive-by. It's nice to know I have some guardian angels. Either that, or they're just keeping an eye on me. I've been known to go off my meds from time to time. >:) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 20:21, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Redirect Question

Is this an appropriate re-direct? I'm leaning toward no, but can't find anything that says so concretely TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 19:36, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

No, redirects should not cross from one space to another (ie project space to userspace, and viceversa). Can lead to confusion. And, it's impossible to leave a note for scapegoat cheeser to tell him that. Someone will come along and switch it most likely. I don't wanna get involved in it if I can help it Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:48, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I thought as much but couldn't find anything other than the essay which didn't really have an answer. PS: lovely football game last night in the Bronx that I quite enjoyed. So tired and cold by the time we left, but it wa sa good cold with a W TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 19:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I just removed the redirect after thinking about it a bit. And unrelated, you must be tired and cold, seeing as how "football" season (reread your post) doesn't start for several months...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I was rooting for a couple more runs so that this game could outscore the super bowl for the laughter factor :) The Angels were in the 4th by the time we finished at 11:15 NY time and Toronto was in the 12th. Gotta love the marathons TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 20:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah, now I get it, didn't realize the score was up there...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
At least the Yanks-Sox game was moderately close. I saw a Twins game once where the Dome Team won over Cleveland by 24-3 or some such. And being indoors, there was no good excuse to leave early. But I did anyway. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 20:25, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I've only left early once and that was because of a bus trip == and I didn't like the idea of walking home :) Considered it one game in April a few years back where it was in the 20s -- but I didn't. There was a Yankees - Tampa game that was a killing like that, I haven't been to too many massacres. Am sure tonight will end up 1-0 or something. TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 20:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure this was great entertainment for the TweetyBird fans....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
That was the game that convinced the Orioles had become what they once were - the St. Louis Browns. It was also entertaining to see a news article that talked about the June 29, 1897, game between the Chicago Colts (later Cubs) and Louisville, in which the Chicagos edged out their opponents 36-7. Louisville doesn't get much baseball coverage nowadays. And by the way, the Colts lost the other two games in that 3-game series. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 20:52, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Here's the line score for June 29, 1897. It was at Chicago, but the Colts elected to bat first, as was allowed at that time. Hence they got to bat at home in the 9th inning despite already leading 28-7. The Colonels apparently used only 2 pitchers in the game. The Colts' pitcher threw a complete game. No game for sissies on those days:

  • CHI 3 5 7 1 2 1 2 7 8 - 36
  • LOU 0 0 1 0 5 0 1 0 0 - 7

Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 21:03, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

The game I saw was actually 23-2, on June 4, 2002. [7] They left Reed in through 7. Prior to that it was "close", but the Twins scored 10 in the 7th so they felt safe taking him out. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 21:09, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Rollback Request

I am requesting to have the Rollback permission replaced on my account. I was unaware of the indepthness of the issue that I was getting into yesterday. The admin who took action yesterday and removed from my account is unavaliable at this time, and has stated that I may reapply for use of the tool again. I am finding it aggravating to attempt to revert vandalism and having to go through the undo function. Thanks for your consideration. Dustispeak and be heard! 20:50, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry my friend, I'm a bit biased and don't need the potential hassle. I recommend waiting a few days (minimum), then reapplying at WP:RFR. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

watching my user page

Thak you very much, man :) I need to take a few wikibreaks, so I can't take as much care as usual of stuff --Enric Naval (talk) 20:56, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

No problem. I can't promise I'll revert vandalism within seconds or minutes, but it surely won't ever be three days again. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:05, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


Yeah, it feels nice. But I doubt 700 is going to happen. Besides, knock on wood, my last one looked about the same at this point (if I remember right). Nothing is guaranteed. Thanks for the confidence though :) VanTucky 21:29, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Archived delete debates

I am posting this on the talk pages of the editors (mostly admins.) who are keeping Wikipedia:Archived delete debates up to date most frequently: Consistent with the recent rename of Wikipedia:Deletion debates to Wikipedia:Deletion discussions (largely to have a title that is more civil, hopefuilly encouraging a more civil tone in them), I would like to rename Wikipedia:Archived delete debates to Wikipedia:Archived delete discussions via a move. Any objections? Reply here, and hearing none I will let you know when complete so you can continue your good work of keeping the page up to date at its new location. UnitedStatesian (talk) 18:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the post! No objection from me. Sounds like a good move, I'm all for consistency. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Move completed. Thanks. UnitedStatesian (talk) 21:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

RE: Doin' alright?

If this were anyone else, they'd recieve a TL;DR of total flaming. But, you're Keeper. Hehe.

No, not really. 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 20:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for taking this out. No, seriously. Freakin' IRC users trying to make me look like a fool. But it doesn't matter, as I'm banned from it for a while anyway.
Yes, that's what triggered the wikibreak. It'll get clearer once I'm done writing my vent essay.... 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 17:17, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I hate IRC. Never been involved with it, find it rather dubious. My userpage says as much. Consider yourself fortunate if banned. Looking forward to the vent essay....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Barnstar-lightbulb3.png What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar
For creating that /Vent subpage. I really needed to get some freakin' steam out. Thanks!

Also, for suggesting the .01 Cabal. 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 17:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

That's the sign that I'm done... 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 17:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
VP=? 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 19:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Article writing, feh! I know nothing about it. Exclusive VP for me, and lovin' it...Also, I need to create that 0.01 cabal. Check the barnstar; I update it.. 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 19:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Were I an admin...

... should I mark this this as closed after the comment I made? It appears to be a content dispute with very little time attempting discussion prior to A/NI, and in the particular case, no real incivility or innapropriate behavior yet. The only thing I worry about is inflaming the situation by a quick resolve which may bother the reporter. How do you handle such situations? Gwynand | TalkContribs 14:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I commented there. I think Gene feels slighted that a page move happened without consensus or prior discussion. Then went to AN/I without prior discussion. Just reading his post makes me feel liek there is some definite history there...we'll see how he/Husond respond at this point, it's certainly not resolved (but I do strongly agree with you that it is the wrong venue). Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah I agree the issue at hand is not resolved, but didn't know if it should be marked as such to discourage a content dispute discussion to continue on AN/I. I'm beginning to realize that tons of AN/I posts are mostly overblown content disputes... at the same time I realize that simply ignoring them or marking them resolved may only serve to inflame the issue. Thanks for the help here. Gwynand | TalkContribs 14:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yesterday's Issue

Seems to have blown over now. I spoke, well typed to, B and explained my point of view. You can see is response on his talk page, which I think your watchlisting? Dustispeak and be heard! 14:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yesterdays's issue always blows over, just as yesterday's newspaper lines the catbox. As for rollback rights, that's what I was assuming B would do (not so soon maybe, but still, all's well!). A good mini-lesson that I hope you will pick up on: The vast majority of admin's are very hesitant to undo the actions of other admins without hearing first from the acting admin. "B" made an admin decision regarding your account. I noticed that you asked at least three other admins to restore your rollback rights, even though I said "let's wait for B". I even went a step further and posted on "B's" talkpage. B was offline, the world didn't end overnight without rollback rights. (yesterday's newspaper). Did any of the admins you asked fulfill your request before B replied? (You know the answer to that question). When you are an admin, you will have editors that you work very well with come to you and ask you questions, ask for coaching, ask for help, and ask for advice. Give it to them! However, once your an admin, if your editor friends ask you to "undo" another admin's good faith actions, I strongly recommend you remember this situation, remember that I kindly declined your request to override B's actions, remember that Andonic didn't reply, remember that Jéské Couriano declined. The same will be expected of you as an admin from your fellow admins, so to avoid being the subject header in ANI, remember this. Anywho, it's yesterday's news. Cheers, glad you're back in business! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:05, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Maybe I'm under-utilizing rollback, but I find that its main use is simply saving a few keystrokes. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 15:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I never user rollback. Maybe twice, three times? I don't do a lot of RC/VP though, just whatever pops up in my watchlist of around 1500 articles. I usually catch the first contrib, so undo works just fine for me. It does have value for those that do a lot of patrolling I've been told. But yeah, it's just keystroke efficiency. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Tee hee. I just did rollback of tan's last two edits, for irony. I'm going nucking futs. (But Tan, you did replace my comment above with yours....:-)Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
That's strange, I didn't get an edit conflict. Sorry about that. Tan | 39 15:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I didn't either. Seemed perty obbvius, so I rollurbackt ur vanderlizums...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
My main policy for being an Admin will be that I will almost never undo an Admin's actions unless they specifically say that that they are willing to have someone else reevaluate the situation. I really like my admin coach's policy, which you can see on his talk page. I'm the kind that you entrust someone with the tools, you trust them to make the right decision. I have actually asked the question in an RFA and !voted oppose for the response I got. I don't really see the need to undo an action unless there was a misunderstanding (like yesterday) or misuse of the tools. That may make my next RFA fail, I don't know. Do you agree or disagree? Tan, Keeper, Bugs, and whomever reads this. Dustispeak and be heard! 15:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
But you didn't know if there was a misunderstanding. You had two admins (myself and B) saying there was probably a misuse. I asked you to wait for B. You asked three admins to restore rollback before B could defend/represent his actions. I hope as an admin you wouldn't give in to the kind of pressure that you put on others regarding this little rollback feature. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

<outdent> I'm the kind of person who never gives into pressure. I would have honestly done what you did, and my asking the other admins to restore it was inappropriate. The best course of action would have been to wait for B to come online and discuss it with him (which I later did) and look at what happened! Granted, I won't always know if there is a misunderstanding, but I will look in depth to the situation and make my decision. If it looks like there was room for error, I would contact the admin and ask what was up. I would wait for a maximum for two days though, after that I would seek someone's opinion. You can last for a day or two without a technical feature. Dustispeak and be heard! 15:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

(ec w/ keeper)Dusti, I'd like to comment here. You are repeatedly suggesting that B misunderstood you, or even that he didn't understand the situation. That was not the case. The use of rollback is very serious, and you should admit to yourself that if you were going to be using it often then you should know the rules regarding it. Becoming involved in that edit war and rolling back non-vandalism should be taken very seriously. If anything, taking away your rollback was totally neccesary to help you understand the gravity of your error, which I'm not sure you are to this point. As I said yesterday, I believe you always act in good faith, but at the same time I think you should be taking this more seriously. B understood what he was doing and his removal of your tools had nothing to do with the fact that you were acting in good faith, but with the fact that you were misusing the tools and breaking policy. Although this was already brought up, campaigning for other admins to give you back your tools while B was AFK was also innapropriate and I don't believe showed recognition of your error or why he temporarily removed the tools. Gwynand | TalkContribs 16:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Maybe you didn't get to read what I wrote above. I understand why he removed it, because it appeared that I was edit warring as well. I used it to try to control a situation, which was inappropriate. I explained to B that I was sorry and I understand what I did was wrong. Dustispeak and be heard! 16:05, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
But Dusti, you technically were edit warring, that's what I'm trying to explain. Good faith or bad faith has nothing to do with that. A major issue across all of wikipedia is editor's who inadvertently edit war because they think they are helping a situation. Also, I did read everything you wrote above. I'm trying to help you here, as I can see you want to become an admin some day. Gwynand | TalkContribs 16:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I understand that now. At the time, I was under the impression that I was doing more good than bad, but now, I was just like the other users who couldn't get along. What do you think of the situation below? Dustispeak and be heard! 16:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, first I want to say that your constant pleasant attitude is commendable. In terms of temperament, you'd be a the top of the list of editors, admin or otherwise. You clearly have taken the whole issue seriously and have made several edits discussing it, all very healthy. The clarifications I was making were also well responded to and I believe understood. I think the situation now is very good!Gwynand | TalkContribs 16:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, but I was actually referring literally to the below situation titled "We have an Imposter". lol :) Dustispeak and be heard! 16:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
As I said before, just to throw it out there, I'm not sure why people think rollback is "a very serious" thing. It saves seconds on a reversion - yay. It's some weird WikiCultural thing that everyone takes it so seriously. Tan | 39 16:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, you are totally right. I meant to imply that abuse or improper use of rollback can be a very serious thing. Gwynand | TalkContribs 16:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, yes, but that's on rollback generically - whether or not you have the "rollback function", you can edit war. My comment wasn't anything to do with Dusti above (I really didn't even look into that situation, I generally avoid drama that doesn't involve me directly), but more of just an off-the-cuff comment about Rollback(tm). I don't understand why "giving rollback" or "taking it away" is such a big deal when it's such a small thing for which to have privileges. Tan | 39 16:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I'd say it's possibly a larger issue that is too complicated to discuss (or unnecesary between the two of us). Agreed though, general abuse is the main issue, not really anything specific to do with rollback. Gwynand | TalkContribs 16:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Not that I'm not enjoying all the orange new message bars....:-) Please don't check my contribs today, I believe 90% or higher are to my own talkpage. Sheesh. Aren't there any articles anywhere that need fixin? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Ha, I think it happens to editors who have a highly watchlisted talkpage. Feel important. :-) Tan | 39 16:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
You did that on purpose. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

We have an imposter

Almost laughable, what should be done? This is just halarious. I'm also an official representative of Oprah Winfrey. Dustispeak and be heard! 16:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I am Oprah Winfrey. In all seriousness, it looks like enough eyes are on it. I'm at my capacity for ridiculousness for one day, especially a Friday. Not getting involved. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh my, Your Oprah Winfrey!!??!! Can I have your signature? How much does it cost? :) Let me get my checkbook out!! :) If it goes much further, I'm going to have to take it to WP:ANI because this dude's going way too far. I've watchlisted his page. I see that he's starting to be noticed now... Dustispeak and be heard! 16:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
More of my unsolicited two cents: people "taking things to ANI" when it really doesn't involve them just adds to WikiDrama. I say this because it's becoming a serious problem on here - editors are completely losing sight of the reason for Wikipedia, and using it as some sort of strange social forum where they spend all day fixing "problems" amongst each other. Tan | 39 16:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I was just about to post something similar. Don't take it to ANI. It's not an "incident" yet, eyes are on it, it will resolve. Your mantra today Dusti is "yesterday's newspaper, yesterday's newspaper, yesterday's newspaper...". Also, read WP:TIND. Not rushing + not panicking = not dramatic. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Even better essay to read, WP:PANIC. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Hmmmm, lemme get out a diet coke and settle down for some reading. Back in a min. Dustispeak and be heard! 16:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Just popped the top of a room temp DMD me self...tasty. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
To you above about the pretty orange message bars, I don't get them too often anymore (which is good :) ) and to the above reading, I see. Puts a new perspective on things. I'll sit back, relax, and get my fingers ready for some article changes :). Thanks Keep, have you gotten a Barnstar lately? How about a cookie or smile? Dustispeak and be heard! 16:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Deleted edits?

Could you explain to me exactly what a "deleted edit" is? Also, is there any way for me to view my own deleted edits? Gwynand | TalkContribs 17:01, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

In case Keep is offline, a Deleted Edit is an edit that you did, like tag an article for deletion and the article gets deleted. I believe the only way that you can see deleted edits is if your an admin. Dustispeak and be heard! 17:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Dusti is right. If you mark something speedy, and the admin deletes it, your "contrib" to that article is no longer part of your "contribs", it's part of your "deleted contribs". I have a magic little button that allows me to see everything you've contributed that has been deleted. To answer your original question, how can you view your own deleted edits? Get yourself added here.  :-) (Actually, if you request an admin to do it, we can give you a manual list. Takes forever. Please don't ask me, they're not that interesting...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Haha... I was just thinking I should run for admin today, and for my answer to Q1 state that my only reason for wanting the mop is so I can view my own deleted edits. It might work!Gwynand | TalkContribs 17:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I'd vote support. Go ahead! :) lol Dustispeak and be heard! 17:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
(e/c) I'd vote support for that, if only so that it wasn't snow closed. Prolongs the abuse.  :-). Actually, I think you'd make a great admin, and have told you so before. But don't self nom. And don't do it today. And because I'm a snoop and can't help myself, I looked at your deleted contribs. You need more of them. Why? It shows successful activity in CSD, PROD, and AFD. If things you nominate for deletion actually get deleted, it shows you know policy and are careful with your nominations. How? Go here, here, and here!  :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Take a peek at mine Keep, how does mine look? Dustispeak and be heard! 17:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Don't worry, I was being totally facetious. If I ever run, it won't be until at least a few more thousand edits and after my baby is born, and even if then, it would never be a self nom. I often vote at AfDs, but I'm not a big fan of nominating them... maybe I'll try a few more. Gwynand | TalkContribs 17:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Be sure to let me know when you do, I'll Co-nom (or nom) you if you wish. Dustispeak and be heard! 17:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Keep, can you take a look at my deleted contribs and lemme know what you think? Dustispeak and be heard! 18:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Asking twice? Yikes, I suppose I hafta look...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:47, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 :) Dustispeak and be heard! 18:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Just looked through. You have around 500 deleted edits, mostly from speedy tags that were agreed with by an admin. The vast majority of them are still red links (with maybe 4-5% of them now reappearing as bluelinks. (usually because someone has recreated a page that you speedy nommed). I checked thru the blues, the ones that have been recreated have now survived AfDs in some cases, none that need to be revisited (legitimate articles now - nothing wrong with you tags necessarily, just recreated the right way most likely). A few were recreated incorrectly, and I've gone ahead and deleted those again (2 or 3 at the most). When you look at your contribs on your preferences tab, the edit count there doesn't include deleted contribs, so mentally, as of this date, you can add about 500 to that number for your "total" contribs. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm dumb here that's good then right? Dustispeak and be heard! 19:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
What you want the summary and the judgment? Glutton for punishment are we? Yes, it's good. It shows that you know how to correctly nominate something for speedy deletion. If/when you get time, go back through your regular contributions and find your speedy nominations that were declined and add those up. It should be relatively low compared to those that are deleted. You should aim for about a 95% success rate, so doing some quick math, your regular contributions should contain no more than 15-20 declined speedies. I'm not digging through all those contribs though, you'll hafta do that yourdamnself. :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The Point-One Cabal

If you haven't already any allegiance with any other cabals, you might want to check out my newly-formed cabal. 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 19:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, snap! My very own cabal! My only prob is that I'm not an enemy of BRC...lots of goodies in there (sorry if you've had bad experiences with any of em, I haven't...) Get rid of the enemies section, I'll join. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:45, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Done. 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 21:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I wonder if I should make it a counter-vandal cabal. But then again, you're not a CV person, so I'm not too sure about doing so. After all, it was YOUR idea. 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 22:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Also, what do you mean, "my bad" when you said you opposed both my RFAs? You had every reason! 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 22:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Well? What do you think? Should I? 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 12:59, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Edit War at Nuclear winter

I have left a message on the users talk pages and on the article talk page. I most likely won't be on this weekend, and I think that one of the users is an Admin, so I would feel better if you could look into it. Thanks, Dustispeak and be heard! 21:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I looked at this very briefly, inviting users that are in conflict to use the talkpage is a good move. I saw your post on the talkpage as well. I will be offline in about 1/2 hour until Monday (I desperately need a break anyway), so I won't be able to watch this either. But that's okay right? Remember today's mantra? Yesterday's newspaper, yesterday's newspaper, yesterday's newspaper... Thanks dusti, see you next week. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:05, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I just got a chance to get online today (saturday) and both users have refused to discuss anything on the articles talk page. For now though, it looks like the users have stopped any revisions to the page, so yesterday's news, yesterday's paper, yesterday's issue. Maybe they are done, if not, i'll have it watchlisted. Thanks keep, I seem to be learning some stuff from ya :). Dustispeak and be heard! 19:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


I was going to relist, but it got the point where I was really curious as to how long it could go on. You win a cookie for finally closing!
Mmmm, tasty. Thanks for the snack, much appreciated. Happy editing, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


Ah, thanks for removing them, i'm still trying to get used to the whole process. I managed to delete things properly before but couldn't quitre remember so I put them up for MfD's ;) Thanks for the advice, happy editing. CycloneNimrodtalk? 18:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I have been doing some digging....

I am not sure about this, but I think This admin's actions are incorrect. What do you think? Dustispeak and be heard! 16:12, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I think I'm staying out of it. I don't know the subject matter, I don't know the editors involved. I would recommend you do the same, unless you happen to know the subject matter. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm staying out of it, as I tried to do the compromise thingy, and its kinda worked, a little bit of discussion. I'm talking about him using his admin powers to push weight around. Does this fit here? I just have an issue with him being uncivil, especially with my polite request. It was polite wasn't it? Dustispeak and be heard! 16:25, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Your request was fine. Did he respond to your request somewhere incivilly? All I saw was him deleting your request, which is perfectly acceptable to do, not incivil, and well within his editor rights (and has nothing to do with admin rights). In fact, him removing your comment was an acknowledgment of reading your comment. It is retained in his talk history. Nothing else needed, IMO Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Read the edit summary here. Dustispeak and be heard! 16:33, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I hafta be honest, I kinda chuckled at that. It is similar to something I would have typed if someone posted a section on my talkpage with the header "Edit Warring". "Edit Warring" has an inherent assumption of bad faith in it, don't you think? It sounds quite negative. Perhaps in the future, "Hey there, I've noticed a dispute", or something of that sort would have garnered a more positive response from him. He didn't swear at you, I suppose that's positive. :-) I would let it go if I were you. He got your message, and since then, has been contributing to the talk page. Mission accomplished, as it were. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Maybe, just maybe I could have picked a better title. Hmmmm..... chunky peanut butter or creamy peanut butter? Dustispeak and be heard! 16:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Sunbutter. :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Leave it to you to put a smile on my face. Thanks keeper...Face-smile.svg Dustispeak and be heard! 16:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Well Well Well

You asked for an apology in my deitor review. No chance, apoligize for this: 'Do your "high aspirations" include telling someone to fuck off when they approach you with constructive criticism?' That was really rude and don't expect an apology until I get one. --FGWQPR (talk) 17:23, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

You stated that you had high aspirations. Only a few edits before you told someone to fuck off. My question was an honest one. So was my question on your editor review Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Just watch the Aprentice. I tell you they have high aspirations and they always tell people to fuck off.--FGWQPR (talk) 18:53, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
And then usually right after that, they get told "You're fired". What's your point? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:17, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
It is possible to be angry and to be clever. You can be angry at your peers and aqqaintences but be a really succesful person accademically. --FGWQPR (talk) 19:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I'd say that it's possible to be clever until you become angry. ;-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I would say cleverness and anger come at different times, completely seperate but in the same person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FGWQPR (talkcontribs) 19:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

<outdent>I'll just finish this whole thread with "it's possible to edit wikipedia without telling other editors to fuck off", however clever, aspiring, angry, or academically successful one views him/herself or wishes him/herself to be, as they are all irrelevant to Wikipedia. I can't think of a good reason to say "fuck off" on Wikipedia. And as long as we are relating it to real life inappropriately, I can't think of a job/occupation/career/aspiration that will last very long, or be very rewarding at least, where a person is telling their co-job/occupation/career/aspiration -ers to "fuck off". Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:51, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I must say one last thing. You have said fuck off proving your point wrong. :) --FGWQPR (talk) 19:58, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Ha! Thanks for your levity. I have technically said "fuck off" more in this thread than I think I have in any other thread, you are completely correct. I appreciate your good humor. I did take a minute to read your editor review (at least those that reviewed you) and can see that you are a good editor, glad to see you being open to criticism and open to adoption/coaching, for what its worth. If you don't mind, I'd like to call all of this "water under the bridge". Agree? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:01, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Agreed! --FGWQPR (talk) 21:19, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


Funny now that anytime I come across something funny I think of you. Hmm.. Anyway, you might like Jeske's here. I was going to use it myself, but then I got a Friday quote. :) Rudget 17:35, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

heh, that is funny. I like Fridays too (I'm assuming it's the one in the box on your current userpage? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 :) Rudget 17:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


I need some advice....Dusticomplain/compliment 19:59, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm here, but barely....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:06, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I have adopted FGWQPR. Any thoughts where I should start?Dusticomplain/compliment 20:08, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Have you adopted anyone before? If not, some good reading is available WP:ADOPT, and this subpage for adopters. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:10, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
And also, there is a resources section too, could prove helpful. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:12, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
No, I have never adopted someone before, but I feel that its going to be a good expierence, with this particular user. I have looked over those pages, and I think the first thing we are going to do is discuss what has happened over the past several days and where it applies in Wiki policies. You could have easily blocked him for being rude and uncivil, but you being good ol' keep kept your cool. Dusticomplain/compliment 20:15, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Excellent place to start. And to clarify, I did in fact block him for being rude and incivil, to use your words. For 48 hours, if I remember correctly, read his talkpage. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:21, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I meant for the above comments :) Dusticomplain/compliment 20:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh. In that case, I have absolutely no reason to block him again, that hasn't even crossed my mind. We were having a very civil conversation from what I could tell. Had I blocked again, I would've been the subject of an ANI post for admin abuse for sure, as it would have been completely out of line for me to do that to him, as it would have been punitive instead of preventative at that point. So, yes, in that case, I guess keeper did keep his cool...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:31, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Good job! Any other thoughts? Dusticomplain/compliment 20:33, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
At the moment, I was just thinking that the cloud outside my window looks like a clownface. And I'm wondering if my two year old son is taking a good nap so that he won't be crabby when I get home from work...oh wait, you meant wiki? No. No more thoughts. You'll do fine. If your talkpage (and FGWQPR's) talkpages start getting cluttered with back and forth, you could create an adoption subspage in his userspace, other than that, go for it! Help him out, let him ask questions (and for the love, every time he asks a question, don't post here. You've adopted him, not me :-). Have confidence in what you know, use the Wikipedia resource pages for what you don't know. Don't guess at things, find the answers. Excellent practice for when you're an admin. (Notice I said when, and not if this time?  :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:37, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
No if? Wow, you seem to think I will be an Admin one day....hmmm... I won't come here if he asks a question, I'll look it up. And if I can't find it there, I'll make up an answer lol :). Dusticomplain/compliment 20:49, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


For catching that little bit of nastiness :)... hope you're good αlεxmullεr 20:04, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

No problem. I'm doing well - haven't seen you around much since RfA, which may be a good sign I suppose - no ANI threads with your name in them...:-). Did you take a break or are we just in separate circles? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:06, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I was on holiday for about three weeks when I didn't edit at all, and now I've got exams pretty solidly through till the middle of June... I should be around fairly often until then, and I can foresee a lot of time over summer spent here (it's the holiday before my first year of university, so it's about 4 months long). I'm looking forward to getting much more involved in this once the time becomes available... though I'm finding catching up on recent controversies hard, we need an ANI "major incident" summary :). Anything seriously big change throughout March or the beginning of April? αlεxmullεr 21:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh, you know, the usual stuff. Nothing that hasn't been seen before, or won't be seen again. I wouldn't worry too much about what you missed, there'll be plenty to go around this summer.  :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:39, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Rollback Question

since I seem to see it all over my watchlist these days? I know what it is from Wikipedia:Rollback feature and its assorted links, but why is it necessary? I like and use Twinkle and Friendly -- is Rollback really any better? Just curious? TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 20:49, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

If I may keeper, Rollback is a simple tool that makes reverting large amounts of vandalism easier. Some users seem to find it easier than using the undo function. I'm in love with the tool, but really it only saves a few keystrokes and is one click instead of two. Dusticomplain/compliment 20:52, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Dusti. Have you used Twinkle? Is it any different in terms of ease of use, etc? TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 20:58, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I never (or at least rarely) use rollback. I personally don't see the big deal about it. I also don't have any scripts loaded (I'm a purist I guess, or perhaps a masochist). 100% of my edits are manual edits, even when I worked extensively at WP:DPL. So, meh? Maybe I'm not the right guy to ask. If you wanna try it out, say the word. You definitely would qualify as an "editor in good standing", I'd be happy to add +rollback to your account. It can be removed anytime by request as well if you don't want it. Actually, nevermind. I just added it. Try it out, read the WP:RBK to do it right. If you don't want it, don't use it. If it comes in handy once, it's there as an option. Fair warning though, when you click on "rollback" on your monitor, there is no "are you sure?" screen. It just says "rolled back" (or some such). Be sure of what you're doing. Oh, and Dusti. Cripes! Give me two minutes to answer questions on my own talkpage! Sheesh!  :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:59, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Twinkle doesn't work with Internet Explorer. Oh and Keep, just type faster lol Dusticomplain/compliment 21:01, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Or, considering the average size of my posts, type less. :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:02, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
No, you make sense. See you tomorrow :) Dusticomplain/compliment 21:04, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

(outdent from the colon farm): thanks, Keeper, I'll play around with it and see if I find it useful. Thanks for the heads up on the lack of warning and the vote of confidence re: being an editor in good standing. Dusti, no worries n the IE -- I don't use it. I'm a fan of Firefox myself and hoping soon to get a new laptop that's more functional than my current one. I have a list of talk pages that are long and/or have extensive images that are on my personal "Don't even think about it" list when at home. TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 00:41, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I've actually commented that rollback really is WP:NBD because anyone can add Twinkle and that has its own rollback. Twinkle doesn't work for everyone, but it doesn't require approval to use. Enigma message Review 00:45, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I was more curious because discussions about it -- people wanting it, people using it, talking about Rollback edits, etc. had been all over and I'm a curious Sagittarian :) I find Friendly to be a bit cooler than Twinkle -- useful for welcomes and article tagging. I don't do much in the way of vandal patrol outside my watchlist so my need to roll back vandalism is limited. We'll see. TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 03:20, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


Hello! :) In March, Tressym was nominated for deletion. At the time, there was no suitable page for this article to be redirected to, so based on the consensus, you deleted the article. I have created a new page, List of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition monsters, which would be a proper destination to merge and/or redirect the article to. I'm wondering if it's possible to restore the original article, and turn it into a redirect, thus preserving the edit history? Thanks!  :) BOZ (talk) 04:46, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey there BOZ! Just a quick question first, I went to the list you created (Wow, that's comprehensive!), and did a search for the term "Tressym" and noticed that it isn't used anywhere in that list. I'm a D&D n00b, but generally, a redirect is used when the subject to be redirected appears in the parent article or list. Did I miss it? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:42, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
It isn't there yet - as comprehensive as the lists are, they hardly cover everything yet. :) The tressym first appeared in an adventure module, and we haven't gotten around to covering most of those yet. If it will help, I can add the module to the list first? BOZ (talk) 14:45, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
When you get to it, that's fine. I trust you (and again, I know nothing of the topic). I'll create the new redirect in a sec...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:50, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Okie dokie, it's restored and redirected. Good luck with your list! happy editing, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:53, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks!  :) Glad to know I'm trustworthy. :) BOZ (talk) 15:52, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Calling in a favor

To help me in this adoption process, I've visited Wanabe Kate's tool and looked at FGWQPR's edits, however, I haven't been able to see his deleted edits. Can you take a peek and lemme know how those look? Thanks Keep, Dusticomplain/compliment 15:51, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

No problem! FGWQPR has exactly one deleted edit. He added a tag to a nonsense article for speedy deletion on April 17th, and the article was speedy deleted shortly thereafter. That's it! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:56, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Wow, that won't be too hard to look through huh? Thanks again! Dusticomplain/compliment 16:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
"Calling in a favor". I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the balance sheet is probably in the other direction. :-) Tan | 39 16:02, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I chuckled at the title too. I don't recall owing him one either... :-) 16:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Yea, well, you don't owe me one, as I owe you many.......*sigh* opening a COLD DIET COKE....Dusticomplain/compliment 16:38, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Can you also take a look at the latest review on my editor review. Dusticomplain/compliment 17:14, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the kind words, I have some high hopes for him, but I have a feeling this isn't going to be an easy ride. :) Happy Editing, Dusticomplain/compliment 18:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Anything you do that is worthwhile is generally by rule not easy. Enjoy it for what it is, I'm sure you'll both do fine. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:17, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

<outdent farm> I know. When I wanted to ask, something was telling me not to, to let him come to me, but I instead had to offer. I'm glad though I did it, for if I ever become an Admin. Also, did you see my request above? About the editor review? Dusticomplain/compliment 18:19, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Nope, I'd missed it - going there now...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:20, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm. I've been reading and reading trying to see what Blackzeppelin was doing so terribly wrong that he warranted a AIV report by you. He is by no stretch of the imagination "a vandalism only account". His talkpage is littered with impersonal warnings from you. He was attempting to cleanup up disambiguation pages, hardly controversial. Maybe not agreed on, but surely not vandalism. In hindsight, I hope you realize that a personal talkpage message to him asking "what are you attempting to accomplish, and can I help?" would have gone a long way to welcoming a new user. You also rolled back some of his contribs that were not obvious vandalism, which you know now is a big rollback no-no. (Again, it was 4 days ago, I'm not worried about this). This all happened back on the 18th. I did notice that you've also apologized to him today the 22nd, after his post to your editor review, which is good. However, I don't like the bit you put in there on his talkpage that reminds him to stay civil, after you posted that many templates. (I hate user warning templates, though they are a necessary evil, I try not to use them and prefer manually typing a response or concern - you get a better reaction, and its just less bitey). In fact, your apology was really just more warnings in the end. I think his editor review of you is a tad harsh, yes, but not incivil by any means. He simply said what he thought after his intereactions with you, which were honestly how he felt. I would recommend not removing it from your editor review. (I won't say cheers, I know you hate that when I'm being a jerk friend...) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I sorta researched this a bit too and agree with Keep, although I'm not even sure I'd be as forgiving. This did not warrant an AIV. His review of you, while obviously biased, is far from incivil. However, being a third party, I'll end my observations here. Tan | 39 19:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
(Sorry to keep the orange bar going Keeper, but to keep this centralised). I also agree with Keeper. Sorry Dusti, I think you were way off target on this one. Best thing is to drop a note on Blackzeppelin's talk to try and generate some positive conversation, and retain him/her as an editor. sorry Dusi, and I know you did this in good faith, but I think a "let's move on" note might be handy here. Pedro :  Chat  19:08, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I want to thank all above for the input. At the time, as I explained to someone somewhere, I thought the actions were vandalism. Later that day I saw that the actions weren't vandalism, but got sidetracked and didn't get around to apologize to him. As keeper says, now its just water under the bridge. I just don't know how to take the Review though, I mean, I don't know. I'll try to talk to him and work this out. I just wanted some input from someone other than myself. Thanks, Dusticomplain/compliment 19:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
His review of you isn't doing any harm. I'd probably just sigh and let it go. Typically, trying to "fix" situations like this just increase the drama factor. Tan | 39 19:58, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
When I said "fix" I meant to apologize and let it go. Dusticomplain/compliment 20:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
As always Dusti, your willingness to have your contributions and actions reviewed by your peers, regardless of the outcome, is very encouraging to me. I appreciate you bringing this forward and your civil and contrite responses. Happy editing, (and Cheers!) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:17, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


Thanks--Kumioko (talk) 22:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

You're absolutely welcome. Glad you've stuck around. RfA is a bitch. You have about a bazillion more positive contributions to the encyclopedia than I'll ever have (I'm more of a policy wonk, never been much of a writer), if you are ever getting grief over anything as a content writer from some ridiculous admin, let me know. I'll do battle for you! I find defending content writers against fringe-ists, over zealous admins, etc, to be my specialty (see User:Malleus Fatuarum for example). I'll never be a content writer, but I'll defend them by all means possible, as they are the only reason anyone is even able to type here. I'll fight for you till the end if needed, you've proven to me that you are a worthy addition to this insane website. Why? Because you are a content writer, and because you are not an admin. (although you should be)... Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 22:27, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Hey, did someone call? I wondered why my nose was twitching. Keeper's quite right, so you're in safe hands. I would very likely have left wikipedia by now had it not been for his support. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:59, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah, shucky darns, I'm blushing. Go GA/FA something would you? What are you doing on a talkpage? What a waste of time, Malleus...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 23:02, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm just taking a short break from the John Frederick Bateman article. Got to get back now and review soap production in Palestine. So I'll leave you alone for now. ;-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 23:09, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


What's a Unique Page?[8] I don't think I've ever heard of that before.--KojiDude (Contributions) 01:57, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, this guy is rather unique, I suppose that would count?  :-) Seriously, in the context you are asking, where an editor has "17000 edits to 9000 unique pages" simply means that they have a diverse level of contributions and make a few smaller edits to each page rather than dozens or even hundreds of edits within one article. Nothing more. It's I'm assuming, meant to show that the candidate has "been around" long enough to know how to work this place's magic. Hence my support. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I get it now. Thanks for clearing that up for me.--KojiDude (Contributions) 15:16, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Are you ready?

I'm going to go comment on some AFD's if your up for it today. Oh, and about your comment above, I love criticism, let's me see where I am, both positivley and negativley. Dusticomplain/compliment 16:08, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll be watching for the new afd list on your subpage - go to town! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:09, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
i've got an issue on my hands. My adoptee incorrectly nominated an article for AFD, as it can be tagged as {{db-bio}} . I wish to close the AFD, he wishes to close the AFD and just tag the article as such above. Per your ban, I can't do this, so could you delete the article and/or the AFD?. Thanks, Dusticomplain/compliment 17:12, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 Done Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:16, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I was really close to closing it and leaving a nice message, but the block scared me enough to come to you. Dusticomplain/compliment 17:17, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
You have chosen wisely....  :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:20, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I have completed my AFD list. Only four today. Dusticomplain/compliment 17:32, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Redirect Question

Hiya! Quick question, Mccafe has two re-directs. I can understand why the accent might not be a good thing per WP:UE, however is there any good reason for it not being at McCafe which is proper capitalization? There's nothing on talk but I have no idea how to go about undoing a re-direct and moving Mccafe there. Help? Pointer in the right direction? Thanks TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 16:42, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Is the correct title McCafe or McCafé? (and I agree, it's not Mccafe...) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:49, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
And actually, looking at the McDonald's website, you can see the accent in the logo. McCafé it is (he answers himself...)Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:51, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
And now it's done! The page is called McCafé, and McCafe and Mccafe redirect there. You weren't able to do it yourself because moving the page required deleting the old redirect first. If you are interested in deleting redirects in order to title pages properly, please add yourself to this page after passing one of these. Let me know when you'd like a nomination.  :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:55, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! I wasn't sure if it was something that even could be done. Glad to know it wasn't something I could have done easily without pestering :) . I knew it had an accent, I just am not intricately familiar with WP:UE and when we use accents, etc. It's on my list of things to brush up on before asking for that nom. You'll definitely be the one I ask when I'm ready. TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 17:04, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
The basic rule of thumb, for corporation assigned names and official logos, is to have the article title match whatever the corporation decided was the name. McDonald's decided that McCafé was the legal name. No one in their right mind will type that in a search box, so it makes it inherently reasonable to set up probable redirects (Mccafe, and McCafe). Easy as McPie! (I prefer the cherry to the apple, only one McBuck for 2 McLovehandles...mmmmm....drooool....) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:18, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Quit making me hungry ;) I gave the article a bath -- reading the sources made me even hungrier. I don't know if we have any here in NY but I've had them in Australia. I OD'ed on McDs the first time in Japan, barely touched it since. TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 17:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Subject Matter Expert

I created a page in my sandbox to show an idea I have for creating a Page or project to identify wikipedians as Subject Matter experts or near experts on a given subject. Right now its just one bigpage but if it takes off it could be multiple pages and or projects. The basic concept is that if I am knowledgable about Math, Science, Wikipedia policy, speaking greek or whatever I can put my name under the category or categories I am interested in participating in and if someone has a question or needs help relating to that subject they can go to that page and contact one of them on their talk page. Its still a very rough idea and right now I based the page on the Logistics page of the Military history project but I see this changing into somethin much bigger. If you don't mind take a look and let me know what you think. Maybe theres something out there already and I just don't know about it.--Kumioko (talk) 17:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Right off the bat, I like the idea. For your reading: Wikipedia:Expert editors, which was rejected, and a newer version, aptly named Wikipedia:Expert editors/New draft, is being mulled around (although not edited for months, so probably a dying effort). Maybe you can cop some ideas out of those? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:29, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, those help and give me some more ideas. Do you happen to know why they weren't well received?--Kumioko (talk) 18:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
No sorry, don't know the history there. I never contributed to either. I think the first one has a link to a "debate", or perhaps the talkpages of the two links would give some discussion with opposition? Knowing who/why/how someone opposes means your stab can head those off to some degree. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:02, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Aren't the problems with this obvous? Who, apart from you yourself, would agree that you were an expert in anything at all? What does "expert" mean anyway, never mind "near expert"? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I think one of the problems, as you are alluding to, Malleus, is credentialing. Brings back all kinds of Essjay type memories. In fact, probably why it's been kaboshed before. Still an interesting idea. Did you look at Kumioko's sandbox? It's actually a bit different then the older proposals, meaning its vounteer only. A big fat disclaimer on the top that says "unverified experts" would suffice to counteract blatantly lying volunteers. Certainly would need a lot of work before I supported it though, to be honest. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:47, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
What other changes do you suggest?--Kumioko (talk) 21:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
The Essjay episode was in my mind, yes. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:27, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

AfD for Incheol shin

If the subject was the same person as this: he or she is probably notable. I wish that people would do a Google Scholar search before nominating an article about an academic for AfD, no matter how weak the original article is. --Eastmain (talk) 17:32, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

hmm. Actually I agree with you. Is there a way to verify if this is the same person? I'm not a subject expert, which of the links have you looked at, Eastmain? Are there any that could be useful as reliable sources? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:35, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
And actually, I'll go one step further. I'll consider this a contested speedy, and restore the article's history, to let the Afd run its course. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:41, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. --Eastmain (talk) 18:47, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
No thank you, Eastmain! If you hadn't taken the time to post to me as deleting admin, I would have never given this a second thought, which would've been to the detriment of Wikipedia, at least based on how the debate is going!. I take full responsibility for deleting too fast and without research, and this has served as a good reminder to me to slow down in CSDs. Gracias - Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:03, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I like the way the debate is going :-). Seems that it could be kept. Dusticomplain/compliment 19:07, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

My Talk Page

Maybe its time to unprotect it? What do you think? Dusticomplain/compliment 18:46, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

It is unprotected. I set a expiration time, the protection expired days ago.  :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:47, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Don't believe me? Check the log Expired 4/16. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:48, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for that, could you also delete my user subpages aswell? But leave the talk archives if thats okay. Thanks and goodbye :-) TheProf - T / C 20:09, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Consider it done. If you want them back, let me know, I'll gladly restore them. If I might ask, what exactly tipped you over the edge? Feel free to vent if you need to, my talk page or yours...Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:11, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Without digging here, this seems a regretable loss of an editor ? Pedro :  Chat  20:15, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Absolutely regrettable. I've looked through his recent contribs, don't see anything appalling, but maybe I'm missing it. Seems to have been going along rather nicely. I've asked for clarification on his talkpage, but I suppose people leave all the time. His subpages, which I just deleted, were actually quite nice. I laughed at his "funnies", and saw in more ways than one a dedicated editor. Tis a shame really, not sure what happened. Hopefully, he'll be reading this still and clarify; if not, I wish him good will and good luck. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:17, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
(ec)Basically, I've encounterd too many unfriendly admins. Most admins have been great, like yourself, however some have simply assumed bad faith of me and others have been down right nasty! The fact that the vandal fighting is a losing battle doesnt help either. Real-life issues are also a factor. I just need to step back from it all! I will still make a few small edits under my IP, if i feel its needed. Again, thank you very much for your help :-) TheProf07 (talk) 20:19, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks to Pedro as well. Wikipedia is not a lost cause, but i still feel the need to leave. Again thanks to everyone for their concern. TheProf07 (talk) 20:19, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. Wishing you the best. If you ever decide to write under "prof" instead of IP, again I'll assert that you've done a lot of great work around here, and I'd be happy to undelete your subpages/userpage if you'd like them back. Best of luck to you, sorry for the troubles from admins. I personally gave up serious vandal fighting a long time ago, because while I find it to be a worthy cause, it is really really really draining and depressing. The only "vandal fighting" I do now is stuff in my watchlist. Just to say, I know what you mean about it being a neverending battle. Cheers, good editor, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:23, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I've deleted TheProf's User and Talk page. As stated by the esteemed Keeper, these can easily be recovered. My best wishes in whatever you move on to, and again I echo Keeper's regrets that we loose you. Pedro :  Chat  20:28, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

What did you delete? I'm missing it. The talk pages (including archives) shouldn't be deleted, and in fact Prof said not to. Maybe I'm being daft? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
the talk page is still there. --Tikiwont (talk) 20:33, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

(ec)If you want to do me a favour, you could look after the All Grown Up! article for me! It's an article that i'd hate to see vandalised because i stopped looking after it. (also, the Dil Pickles article, List of All Grown Up! characters and List of All Grown Up! episodes articles) It would be appreciated. Again thanks :-) TheProf07 (talk) 20:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Cheers Pedro TheProf07 (talk) 20:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I've watchlisted all 4 bluelinks, I'll keep my eye on em for obvious stuff (although I know nothing of the subject matter, I can easily revert things like "All Grown Up is teh gay!" and it's ilk. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:36, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah, confusion. Is TheProf87 the same person (tagged with U1's)? [9] refers. Pedro :  Chat  20:37, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Lightbulb! There it is! Prof87 used to redirect to Prof07, (see the history (sorry admin only at this point) of User:TheProf87 and you'll see were it was redirected a while ago. So essentially you deleted the redirects. All's well in keeperland. I didn't notice the redirects when I was U1-ing...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:41, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah! That explains it. I saw them at C:CSD so just went ahead as proper U1 requests. Pedro :  Chat  20:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Sorry fellas, TheProf87 was my alt. account. No harm done i hope (if you're wondering why i'm still here, i'm making sure i've tied up all loose ends) Cheers TheProf07 (talk) 20:48, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
No harm at all. Again, best wishes for the future. Pedro :  Chat  20:50, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

<outdent, too many colons>I think between Pedro and I we've some how muddled/managed to delete all of your subpages for "07" and "87", at least what I could find. The only page intact at this point is your "07" talkpage, which by precedent should probably stay intact as well as your archives. If you'd like though, you can certainly blank the talkpages if you prefer not to receive well wishes or other talkpage messages. Your choice. Wishing you well, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:52, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Heh, nevermind, I see now that you already did what I suggested. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:55, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
(ec)Yes, i'd like my talk page and archives to stay :-) And i welcome any messages of support there. I just wont be archiving anymore. Yet again, thanks to you, Pedro and Tikiwont (hope you see this Tiki) for all your help and support. TheProf07 (talk) 20:56, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Islander just deleted the talk page. ? Enigma message 17:24, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Are you getting used to these orange messge bars?

I need help with my archive again, new archive page, bot not archiving, dates also aren't being archived as I wish. I want to begin archiving in Archive 3 (April - June) and all threads older than 2 days. Dusticomplain/compliment 16:36, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Lovin the orange bars. Sorry I can't be of much help with archives, I have a really simple one that isn't date specific, just age of thread. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:40, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Anyone watching this page have a clue? Thanks for nothing keeper (just kidding) :) Dusticomplain/compliment 16:45, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Did you just spam my talkpage asking other people to help? No you didnt....:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Batta bang batta boom! Yep, I did.....come one... block me lol (seriously though, dont) Dusticomplain/compliment 16:49, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
S/he is on wikibreak until 4.28 but Krellis helped me and perhaps can help you too. I'm adept at c/p, not too much beyond that with archiving. Oh and Keeper, the Twinkies can have Latrine back if he'd help you, he's quite useless for us. TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 16:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
heh, you can have him. He did play well for the Twins though, although there seems to be some consistency with players becoming quite subpar, useless even, once having a New York Spotlight in their eyes...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:58, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
You missed the best ones, Kevin Brown and Kenny Rogers! Dougie Alphabet is excused, I think he would have had a very good season if not for his injury. BTW, do you userfy deleted articles? I can't find the category for those who do and I've pestered DGG enough lately for copies o:) If you do, I'd love Brunswick Computer Museum because I think I found it in a new name, I'm just not sure. If you don't, no worries TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 17:03, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Done! Keep in mind though, the deletion discussion was a unanimous delete as a probable hoax. You have an uphill battle with it! Can be found here: User:Travellingcari/Brunswick Computer Museum. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:09, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh yuck, completely not what I thought it was -- which was the American Computer Museum, which used to be in the town of Brunswick/Princeton but now is in Bozeman, Montana. That can definitely go back from whence it came as a very likely hoax. I don't know that it's a likely search term for ACM, thoughts on that? TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 17:15, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Pfffftt!!! That made me laugh out loud. Put it back out of its misery. Any more ridiculous requests? You want me to delete LaTroy Hawkins? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:19, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Probably not a likely search term since it's not in that town anymore. You and a handful of other museumgeeks can find the right article without it. :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:21, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Need to find what I said to Brew on the topic of museums. Ahh yes, he called me a museum freak and I said I wasn't a freak but rather a geek :) Best thing about the museums? Infintissimal drama quotient. No one is that passionate to get into edit wars over museums. No more ridiclous for the moment ;) I'd rather delete LaTrine from the Yankee roster, but sadly we cannot. TRAVELLINGCARIMy storyTell me yours 17:35, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

TheProf07 (talk · contribs) block

If the user requests another review, I request that you handle it and I'll accept your choice either way. I was originally a "fan" of this user, but his counterproductive behavior is escalating. - CobaltBlueTony™ talk 17:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

He's requested no more unblocks. I consider myself to be a bit too involved myself. If he continues, it should perhaps be left to a wider audience at WP:RFU. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:17, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
And obviously looking at the block log, TheProf decided to go out "in style", in a disruptive, attacking, and rather immature fashion. Changed my mind, changed temp block to indef block. Bye Prof. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:35, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Please see my posting to Cobaltblue's talk page re: TheProf. This was very personal between TheProf and Scion?. The vandalism was wrong, but this kid was pushed; and he was good and helpful. It's too bad, and is not fair. Scion (sp?) was hassleing me just today and all I was doing was posting source info to a talk page. I went to Cobaltblue for help and he did help. Scion holds a grudge; and it pushed this kid over the edge. Too bad. Kek15 (talk) 18:27, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Seicer (talk · contribs), not Scion. - CobaltBlueTony™ talk 18:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I was wondering who Scion was...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
FYI, Keeper, you may want to take a look over at John Reaves talk page - having labeled TheProf an out-and-out vandal, he's now restored his talk page, and blocked him from emailing. No denying that TheProf behaved appallingly, and an indef-block was probably justified, but I'm starting to get a picture what pushed him over the edge... at the very least, I see no problems honouring his request to delete his talk page, but I would value your input. TalkIslander 18:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Scrub that, John Reaves has re-deleted it. Case closed... perhaps... if the wind is blowing in the right direction, and the phase of the moon is just right... TalkIslander 18:37, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm leaving it alone. Seems to be water under the bridge, unless as you say, TheProf continues to email you. I actually agree that at this point, TheProf would be better served to stay away for at least a few days, and honor his intention to stay away. If/when he decides to come back, there will be some atonement necessary (to Seicer at the very least). Let me know if anything new comes up, otherwise I'm leaving this. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

This IP address user had a short-block message from February that he wants to blank out. Is he within his rights? Presumably he doesn't "own" that IP address. Or does he? [10] Never mind the smart-aleck remarks he made on my page. I just want to be sure of what the policy is rather than get into some stupid revert war over a talk page. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 16:59, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Assuming it's the same person, the message is rather stale, certainly doesn't need to stay there. Assuming it's a different person/reassigned IP, the message is irrelevant, doesn't need to stay there. Bigger better battles await, for example, if said IP decides to contribute in other "constructive" ways. Let him/her have his/her blank talkpage...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:02, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Roger. A bit off-track, the Twins have been having trouble scoring runs this year, and somehow I'm reminded of a scene from early in Bull Durham. Do you know what I might be referring to? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
The Twins have trouble scoring runs every year it seems. Such is my life. They always have good fundamentals though, and get rid of the hotshots when they need to tone it down. I wouldn't have it any other way. As for Bull Durham, haven't seen that flick in ages, so know, I don't know the reference. In fact, I've purposefully tried very hard to forget all of Kevin Costner's "movies". Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:15, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Just this punch line from the manager: "Well, what do we need a scoreboard for? We haven't scored any runs all year!" Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:18, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Where is Dennis Hocking now that they need him? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:19, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
The old bull from Durham Athletic Park

A little DAP'll do ya. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:22, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

The messages are old, and the block would still show up in a block log. This old man just can't mind his own business. I will keep my page blank. (talk) 12:18, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Fine with me, fine with Bbugs. Happy editing, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Ongoing Edit War

I just thought I would tell someone that there seems to be an edit war going on at the Virginia Militart instute article. I wasn't sure where to report this, sorry I left it here for you to deal with.--Kumioko (talk) 22:38, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm assuming you mean Virginia Military Institute? I'll keep an eye on it, from a brief history check, it seems to be some watchlisters doing battle with a slow-burn (meaning over several days/weeks) edit war with some IPs. I haven't looked that closely though. Have any user warnings/blocks been issued yet regarding this? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: Giovanni

Thanks. I'm just glad it didn't get torn out into a bigger fiasco. Hersfold (t/a/c) 15:12, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

RFA nom

Is this active Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Tanthalas39 2 MBisanz talk 15:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Nope, not yet. (Please don't !vote yet! :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, depends. Were you going to !support? ;-) Tan | 39 15:55, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Just my two cents (as much as it is appropriate here), but I'd hope that you and Tan would wait at least another month before going forward with this. This has nothing to do with my opinion of Tan, but the last RfA being in mid-March will be the first thing many editor's look at, unfortunately. Quick back-to-back RfAs make many an editor uncomfortable. Gwynand | TalkContribs 15:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

re to Mbisanz (e/c) And actually MBisanz, if you look at the "state of the rfa" as it were, it says "nomination coming soon", and has 3 unanswered questions. What part of this particular nom made you think it might perhaps be live?  ;-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

re to Gwynand: no worries, not live yet, and no hurry. Still in coaching ATM. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, sorry, I should have looked at the creation date and realized that it's likely the page just exists in a prelim form. Good luck though to Tan for whenever the date comes!Gwynand | TalkContribs 16:00, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Gwynand, no hurry though. See this comment I made a week or so ago... Tan | 39 16:06, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
  • slaps forehead*. MBisanz, I apologize. When you said "is this active", you didn't mean "Is this live", I misunderstood you. I've just now read the thread between you and barneca on Rfa talk. My bad. To answer your question, yes it's active, please don't delete it. Cheers, you handsome devil. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:19, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Yea, if I thought it was live I would've voted (not saying which way :) ), its amazing how many malformed requests were formed, and yadda yadda, you can read it over there. MBisanz talk 16:26, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm. Interesting. :) Pedro :  Chat  20:18, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

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You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot (talk) 17:00, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Edit conflicts?

Of course, you are my go to admin for questions, and I don't know where else to go for this. Today... at least twice I have edit conflicted w/ another user, but it still allows my edit to go through on the first try. I have no idea why this is happening. It just happened on ANI, and the major problem is then it looks like the user replied to my edit, when in fact they hadn't even seen it yet. Do you know anything about this? Today is the first time this has every happened for me. Gwynand | TalkContribs 17:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

This happens to me occasionally... Tan | 39 17:46, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
The only time I ever seem to get edit conflicted is on my own talkpage when other editors reply to questions before I do...:-) That being said, I have noticed that occasionally, not sure what it is. Today though, I've had the "edit conflict" message come up in a variety of places, so I'm not sure that its a system issue. Someone said once that if you click on the "edit this page" on the top, or "new section", and someone else clicks on the "section edit" on the right side of a specific section, they won't always "edit conflict" each other, even if they end up in the same section. I wouldn't worry about it too much, just go back and clarify who you meant what for, and put it where for you meant it for. Helps your edit count anyway.  :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:52, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


Hello. Thank you for your comments at the WP:AN replying to GTD. It made me feel very happy that more and more people are beginning to trust me more. Anyway, I would like your opinions on my contributions. I would like to see what I can improve and what I should continou. Thanks.--RyRy5 (talk) 20:07, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

No problem, RyRy, doing it now. Give me about 20 minutes. (and thanks for the link!) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:08, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Your welcome. And don't worry, I have a lot of patience.--RyRy5 (talk) 20:14, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Ok, my first impression here, RyRy, is that you've come a long way since we first encountered each other! I'm very impressed! If I remember correctly, the first time I encountered you was me badgering you to change your signature to be smaller (which you've obviously done:-) After that, I'm pretty sure I was not exactly your friend when it came to shutting down your adoption program, I voted to delete the whole program. I hope you didn't take that too personally, but I've noticed that you've voluntarily shut it down and have changed your focus to building the encyclopedia. I'm very impressed with your article writing page User:RyRy5/Articles. Well done! The articles are all rather short, and definitely need some work and expansion, but every article on Wikipedia had to start somewhere, and you've done well with it! I'm personally not much of an article starter, you've impressed me with your abilities. Here's some other things I like:
  1. You seem to take criticism very well, and you are willing to grow and mature beyond your age.
  2. You are making efforts to learn from your mistakes
  3. You are writing articles
  4. You are helping others with their userpages. I for one, didn't even know the User page wikiproject existed until I saw it in your contributions. You have a very nice userpage yourself, and the fact that you are willing to help redesign and organize other editors' userpages (like admin Neil's for example), is great - it means you are working within your specialty!
  5. You are always civil and never attack anyone else
  6. You are a baseball fan! That's excellent! (I'm biased I suppose, because baseball is by far the best sport in the universe...:-)
  7. You are participating in Wiki-space (pages that begin with the word "wikipedia") like AIV, AFD, and the Admin's noticeboards. That shows that you are committed to helping this place be the best it can be.
  8. Your reports to AIV (at least the few I checked), have resulted in blocks, which means you are reported correctly and an admin is agreeing with you.
  9. Your contributions to AfD are good, although you could expand on your reasons even more there if you wanted to. (instead of just saying "non notable", explain why you think something is "non notable" - for example, do a google search.)

Overall, I'm very impressed! You've shown remarkable improvement! I only have one quick quibble. I noticed that you still spend a lot of time on user talk pages with "chatter". I do this quite a bit too, to help other users that have questions, so I'm not overly concerned about it. What I would recommend to you as a place for growth is to try not to be too concerned about who you "are wiki-friends" with. I've noticed that you've asked some other users to add you to their Wiki-friend list. While its nice to have wikifriends, being on a list isn't that important or necessary, I wouldn't worry about it too much. You should be "wiki-friends" with every Wikipedian, whether they put you on a list or not.

Glad you've stuck around RyRy! I've seen some other "social" editors that have disappeared, or have been blocked, or who never seem to understand why Wikipedia is here and what you are supposed to be doing here. I think you are an exception, and I'm glad you've stayed! Good luck with your edits, if you ever have any questions, my talk page is always open :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

A very, very big thanks for your time and your comments. So many people have been starting to trust me, and I shall forword my edits. But one last request to check. I noticed that you didn't mention anything about my reverting. Do you mind checking that? Well, of course I know you will.--RyRy5 (talk) 21:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
You're very welcome. I purposefully skipped over your "reverting" because I've never been a vandalism fighter, and therefore I'm no expert. I'm sure you could find someone else that would be able to give you better advice than I could. I'm better at lookig at article/Wikispace contributions, which I think you are doing fine in. Happy editing! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:05, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

.01 Cabal

Well, I'm changing it to a counter-vandal cabal. Sorry for doing so, but I asked you a couple of times before. Must've been drowned in the other new messages. Check the last archive. 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 21:12, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, must've missed it! A cabal is only worth whatever it's objective is, and a CV cabal is good. I'm afraid I don't have a lot of experience in the area however, never done much in Recent changes/VP. I suppose I could be an "honorary member" though, what's the link to the page? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:26, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Rfa thanks

Thanks for supporting my recent request for adminship which was successful with 89 supports, 0 opposes, and 2 neutrals. Unfortunately all I can offer is this lame text thanks rather than some fancy-smancy thank-you spam template thingy. I was very pleased to receive such strong support and to hear so many nice comments from editors whom I respect. I’ll do my best with the tools, and if you ever see me going astray don’t hesitate to drop a note on my talk page. Thanks again for your support!--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 03:44, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Some advice...

I've been busy lately, so not very proactive on this but the activity at WP:N/CA is...well, zero. Not sure what to do with it now, really. I'm not sure I can claim consensus for it as a guideline (many supports, but a limited number of !votes overall) but...well, I don't know! Any thoughts? Fritzpoll (talk) 12:20, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey Fritzpoll, sorry I've been "distracted" as well. I'll look into how to move something from proposed to guideline. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:23, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
User:Stifle marked it as rejected, but has agreed that I can re-tag it as active if we can generate more interest. (S)he didn't beleive that we'd reached consensus either. Fritzpoll (talk) 14:41, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Just noticed that as well (edit conflict here with you :-) Not sure why it was rejected, other than the relative lack of activity. Hmmm. Let me know your thoughts FP, this one might have to be chalked up to silence = apathy = no consensus. We'll hafta muddle through the next unfortunate AfD when it inevitably crops up. Makes me not want to watch the news, so I don't know the names, so I don't search for them on wiki....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:44, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Just depends on whether or not we managed to advertise it widely enough - the problem is that most people came, saw it, and then either endorsed it (mostly) or opposed it. If there was more we could have done to get people coming to see it and form a consensus (even to reject) that would, in my mind, be better than it dying off because few people saw it Fritzpoll (talk) 15:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I was just thinking that to, but I'm not sure where else it could've be posted or could still be posted that it hasn't. If, by posting a notice of an upcoming change on "everyone telephone poll in the neighborhood", we get that little of a response,my reluctant hunch is that it apparently isn't of enough concern to enough editors to warrant a change in the notability guideline. People saw the posts. They may/may not have clicked on the discussion. Some discussed, but not enough put in an effort towards reaching a consensus. Sigh. If it's of any consolation, just taking the time and effort to process this issue in collaboration with this many other editors, has only made your arguments stronger for the next AfD, perhaps enough to sway a discussion the appropriate way. Again, a small consolation. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:09, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, the way I see it, Wikipedia is all about consensus, and the consensus here was that the community was apathetic to the proposal and implicitly rejected it. All I've lost is time, and I've plenty of that! :) It was a valuable exercise for me ( and bolstered my project space edits - I'm joking!) and fun to interact with people. I'm sure we'll cross paths again soon - thanks for all the help Fritzpoll (talk) 15:13, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Fuhghettaboutit disagreed with the rejection (see the talk page at WP:N/CA) and has retagged it as active. Further advertisement seems to be possible. Just letting you know. Fritzpoll (talk) 16:11, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

If you take a gander at your watchlist, you'll see that I posted my enthusiasm at the exact moment you were posting this :-) Tis good news! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


Care to comment here: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive408#Keeper76_.28admin.29:_Uncivil.2C_expletive-laced_language.2C_with_several_personal_attacks RlevseTalk 12:11, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Rlevse. It's already archived, but an interesting read nonetheless. Interesting in that Kek15 said he was "dropping this" after I said "we should drop this". I removed it from my talkpage, as it is a very sore subject, and I went on my merry way, and apparently, Kek "dropped" it on ANI. My conclusion? He's a troll, upset about a different editor's block. He had nothing to do with the situation (it was directed towards KMWeber) until he started littering my talk page with his tripe. He jumped in with lectures and "civility lessons" that I tersely disregarded. He "apologized" by lecturing me more. I said drop it, he said he'd drop it. I didn't want to be angry, didn't want to look at the thread or give another troll a chance to respond to the thread, and I didn't want it in my archive, so I blanked it. It's in the page history though, I didn't use my "admin abusive powers" to delete it as I very well could of. I very well could have "abused my admin powers" by blocking KMWeber, or Kek, but it would have been outside my rights to do so. So I didn't. I moved on. Very nice show Kek (and like a good troll, I'm positive your reading this). Who doesn't have a "leg to stand on", to use your words? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
FYI, I've given Kek a bespoke level 3 warning - I think that there is barely anything left of the horse he's beating, let alone it being dead, and yet he continues. If he still continues, I'm willing to block, as it is just turning into troll-like behaviour. TalkIslander 16:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your support Islander, and for your well worded warning. Do what you wish, I've washed my hands of this. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:36, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


I've began a new method in the recent interest of other editors (grumbles :) and I'm here to say its worked thus far. Maybe you can bring it up with Dusti (that is, if you are still "helping" him). Figured you'd want to know. SynergeticMaggot (talk) 06:44, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

New meaning for 76

76 (album), by Armin van Buuren. Also, I linked the title of #.01 Cabal to the page.

Also, whatever the hell happened to TheProf07 (talk · contribs)? 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 14:10, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the 76 and cabal links. TheProf, seemingly randomly, put a retired message on his talkpage and requested all his userpage and subpages to be deleted. I obliged and wished him luck. I asked him what gives myself, and he put a rant on his talkpage naming names and blaming blames for whe he was leaving. He then proceeded to attack said names with userpage vandalism, which earned him a block. He then protested the block, but continued to vandalize in such ways (and because he was "retiring" and scrambling his password, according to him), that he earned an indef block. Sad story really, he was a good editor. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:12, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Copyedit request

Mate, could you possibly take a look at Age of Empires? A copyedit has been requested at the FAC, and I'd like some external eyes after I go through it again (soon after I save this). Cheers, dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 08:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Sure. Give me a few hours. I'm going back offline here after eyeballing my watchlist, back on line in a coupla hours. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:12, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks mate. Also, comments on Philosopher RfA. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 08:33, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for the revert. I've semiprotected my user page for a month because there's absolutely no reason for an IP to edit it, ever. Who would have thought the creation of an encyclopaedia would get so many people pissy at us all? :) Alex.Muller 19:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't get too discouraged. I actually rarely if ever do vandalism reverting (I never go to recent changes patrol for example), because of the high burnout, and neverending stream of vandalism that follows good faith reverting. I would say you could even fully protect your userpage, and of course, leave your talk page open to any editors. You're watchlisted, anything posted there like what I saw today will get quickly removed. User:Orangemike actually has a very humorous and good perspective on vandalism, he keeps a counter on his userpage and considers it "badges of glory" for doing the right thing. His edit summaries when he updates his "vandalism counter" are quite hilarious. Keeps him from burning out I suppose. He laughs (I presume, I've never met him), everytime he gets "vandalized". Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:59, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


[11] - I'd like an explanation please. An edit summary would've been perfect. Reply here please so other users don't get confusing messages [on this IP]. (talk) 20:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

As much as I've disagreed with Mr. Weber about unrelated issues, and as much as I've challenged his point of view, incivilly even, I still have him watchlisted, and will continue to revert anything that is potentially a personal attack on him as a Wikipedia user. Telling him that he is "illogical", in this sense, is rather abusive, and therefore I removed it. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Right... "I'll tone it down". Although, I feel it's very hypocritical when you called him a "smug prick" (and "You are a daft fool Kurt") and I said he was [or something like] "illogical". They pale by comparison, do they not? Of course, I'm ignoring your affliction at the time and his comments that he touched upon. But still, very hypocritical of you. Oh, by the way, it's standard practice to use an edit summary for any removal of information that isn't classed as explicit vandalism. Thanks. (talk) 21:40, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Like I said, I have previously challenged his logic when it comes to things unrelated to Wikipedia. That being said, I'll take your advice and change the edit summary to reflect what I'm doing. In the event you were not simply trolling Mr. Weber, I apologize, and I'll use more specific edit summaries in the future. Moving on, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Re One Lincoln

Maybe later. 21655 () 21:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Replied on your talk, numberman... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Got it, Hagrid. And added the section too. 21655 () 23:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

"Youth of tomorrow, fend for yourselves!"

(A prescient quote, uttered by myself during student-teaching, back in 1991.) I fled the lovely world of education about eleven years back...I was a teacher for four years. One year, I taught 7th-grade language arts in one of Chicago's worst suburbs; the next year, I "taught" (translation: babysat) a "computer-assisted literacy" (translation: let's get those standardized-test scores up, boys!) for 6th-thru-8th-graders in ANOTHER one of the worst 'burbs we've got. My third year, I was a substitute in the Chicago Public Schools, which was where I discovered that I'd made a serious mistake in my choice of specialty--if I ever went back into education, I now know that I'd go for pre-K hearing-impaired. (I worked in one school for about three months as a long-term sub, and if they had enough coverage on a given day I would work as an assistant in the pre-K H.I. program, which was, that was the best. Those were the sweetest, most eager and affectionate little was so much fun.) My last year of teaching was in North Carolina (there's a long story there--you really should stop by my blog!) and I started out teaching 7th-grade "supplementary language arts" (translation: test scores! Must raise test scores!!). That lasted til mid-year, when (after I pulled the tech department's butt out of the fire one afternoon--there was a computer seminar scheduled at the school that day, the (much ballyhooed, pride-of-the-school) Macs were down, the district tech guy was nowhere to be found, and the only person at the school itself who knew how to fix the computers was at home crying into her pillow over a broken-off engagement. So I went to the principal and said "If you can get someone to cover my afternoon classes, I might be able to help you out with this." She did, and I fixed them) the principal moved me into an open tech-education spot. Which was the end of my teaching, and the beginnning of my technical career--though that didn't happen til I got back to Chicago and dealt with some other stuff. That was in 1998, and I would imagine you probably feel you've been reading this post since about then, so I'll stop and just say: Thanks for the compliment! I'm glad you're on my watchlist too, and I hope to introduce you to many more annoying and surreal children's shows with which to while away the vandal-fighting hours. Gladys J Cortez 01:17, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I laughed at this post more than normal people would, because I think I've lived the bizarro world/male version of your life, and therefore found this post quite exquisite. My 8th grade math assignment (mind you, I was licensed K-6, English minor. Ha! Read: "No Bizness Teaching 8th Grade Math, But Know One Else In The Building Will Do It, and Since It's Only One Class Period, We Won't Get Anyone Else Hired, Hmmm. Let's Ask The New Guy!"), was in an "ALC", alternative learning center, which basically operates as a portal to JD. Ain't making it in class, ain't making it at home, ain't coming to school sober, ain't passing anything. You dad beats you every night in a drunken stupor (which doesn't hurt because your drunk yourself), your mom's a prostitute, and your 16 year old sister "moved to the city" months ago. You are escorted by police officers to school to be sure you make it there. Hmmm. You do need to pass this basic skills test in math though. That's important. (And by important, young man, I mean important for us, your beloved school, that is earnestly trying to hit its "proficiency numbers".) Must. Pass. 8th. Grade. Math!!! I still get shivers. Needless to say, my "save the world" became a "save myself" quickly, I moved out of public ed (which is easy, just user your personal machete to slash through the red tape that blocks the door) into the glorious corporate private sector. A pawn. A stooge. A cog in the wheel of capitalistic inequity. And loving every minute of it. No bags of school shit to drag home. No lesson planning. No teenagers allowed, let alone demanding to be entertained, er, taught. 9 to 5 baby. Loving it.. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:37, 29 April 2008 (UTC)