User talk:Keithbob

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Welcome[edit]

Welcome to my talk page


DRN[edit]

I presume it's still a bad time to ask for oversight on the case I'm opening? No pressure whatsoever, whatever works for you! Kharkiv07 (T) 00:00, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Hi User:Kharkiv07, I'm happy to help. I'll keep an eye on the thread and give a comment if I have a suggestion. Meanwhile feel free to post here if you have a concern. My first suggestion :-) is to have an open discussion rather than asking participants to comment in their own section. DRN is an "informal" place for dispute resolution and in my observation sectioning off the comments is counterproductive and decreases the chances of resolution. However.......... there are a few people who use that formalized sectional format and it is your personal choice as to what format you use to moderate the case. So use what you find comfortable and effective. Best, -- KeithbobTalk 17:38, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. First question: Normally it seems with DRN that there's room to negotiate, I give you this sentence and you give me one, however in my current case it's a single sentence that is phrased pretty neutrally. I question the suitability of this case for DRN, as it seems that one party has to be "right", if not I'm not sure how to proceed. Advice is much appreciated. Kharkiv07 (T) 21:05, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

I'll take a look and then comment here.-- KeithbobTalk 14:57, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
I think there is room for discussion on all kinds of things 1) the veracity of the sources 2) placement of the sentence in the article 3) the wording etc. It's possible, in theory at least, that there could be compromise in one of these areas. The crux of the discussion is whether this minor mention is relevant to the article per WPs summary style. We don't put every detail of every source in every article. So there is a judgement call here. The easy way out (and maybe the best) is to ask the participants if they could agree to having an RfC. The RfC would say simply: Does this sentence and citations belong in the article? Yes or no. -- KeithbobTalk 15:57, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
User:Kharkiv07, The DRN case seems to have withered. This happens sometimes. I suggest you ping all the participants and let them know that the case needs to move along and if there is no willingness to keep the case moving you will need to close it in 24 to 48 hrs.-- KeithbobTalk 21:08, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
That's my fault, as I remarked there yesterday, I've had a death in the family and won't be editing. I marked it as "needassist". Kharkiv07 (T) 20:15, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, we'll find a new moderator. So sorry for your loss. Best wishes to you and your family.-- KeithbobTalk 17:34, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

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Send on behalf of The Wikipedia Library using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:31, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

RfC collapsible boxes[edit]

To date, the RfC discussion at "Talk:United States" in the two sections “Enumeration of the territories” and “Sources” could be collapsed into respective boxes labelled “Mediation participant comments". This would avoid the wall of text off-putting to editors invited to the RfC. TFD has suggested the solution for "Sources", The Gnome has noted the potential problem at "Enumeration of the territories". TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 10:14, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Hi I was wondering if you can collapse the refs in TFD section, if so, I'm fine with collapseing my "See also" section. Thanks. Alanscottwalker (talk) 17:15, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Responding here because there, it's collapsed, by you:

"This section is being collapsed because it is counterproductive to the RfC." I agree, the people continuing their interminable fight is counterproductive. I'm not part of that.
"This is not a place to rehash or extend the mediation discussions." I agree; my statement has nothing to do with the mediation and everything to do with the implementation.
"Your job is to make an official statement and walk away." My job is to COMMENT in a section for "COMMENTS" in a REQUEST FOR COMMENTS. I have no "official" statement to make as I am not a party to the mediation anymore. I was; I gave up because it was a total mess. I did not interact with the mediation process after that. I'm simply now making comments that I would end up making in the future if the implementation was poor. Is that a problem?
"At this point in the process we want to hear from the community not from mediation participants." I will refrain from expletives here.
"I know this a long standing dispute and there is a lot of history and pent up frustration but please exercise some restraint." Likewise; don't antagonize people by hiding legitimate comments. --Golbez (talk) 17:29, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, your objections are noted.-- KeithbobTalk 19:22, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
I apologize for my fury above. You likely had no reason to think that you were stepping into a nest of scorpions. --Golbez (talk) 06:14, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
User:Golbez ,Thanks my friend. In situations like this it's inevitable that some people will be unhappy no matter what the process or outcome. As mediators we try to find the middle ground but its a thin line we tread :-) I know that emotions run high in these situations but your willingness to come back and apologize speaks volumes for your character. Thank you very much. I hope we can all work together for the best possible outcome. Cheers!-- KeithbobTalk 20:04, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Links[edit]

Hi Keithbob, is one of the Register links you placed on Jimbo's talk wrong? (You've got the same link twice.) And it might be worth linking Wales' Guardian piece as well. Best, --Andreas JN466 21:25, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks I've added a comment with better links and clearer explanation.-- KeithbobTalk 19:57, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

RfC statement exceeding 200 words.[edit]

TFD has approximately 175 words of statement, and approximately 925 of bibliographic essay. He is entitled to the 175:

The position of most legal experts as well the Supreme Court of the United States, the executive and Congress is that the unincorporated territories of the United States are administered by the United States but not part of the United States. The legal position was settled in the Insular cases, which is still good law. As a consequence, the Constitution does not apply in full, although it does protect the fundamental human rights in those territories. Recently, the Supreme Court has decided that these same rights apply to detainees in Guantanamo Bay. However, other provisions do not apply. Hence there is no birthright citizenship in American Samoa, there are different federal tax rules, etc.

The U.S. government treats the territories as part of the U.S. for some purposes and has for example extended by legislation birthright citizenship to four territories. That has not changed their constitutional status. Some scholars have argued that the territories are part of the U.S. and consequently current government policy is illegal. That is a minority opinion.

Surely 1100 words is not the intent of the RfC 200 word max limit, it violates both the spirit and the letter of the usual WP procedure. His sources might be allowed in a collapsible box in that the Mediation sources summary box is about 200 words... TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 00:42, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Seems like a good suggestion to collapse everyone's citations. As for the length I'd like to wait till SunRay get's back and then take stock of the situation. So far no one has voted but mediation participants. Until we start getting some outside input the whole process is not that productive. Let's give it a day or two and see where we stand. Best,-- KeithbobTalk 20:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Ulysses S. Grant[edit]

Hi! I think you may now see why I wouldn't join that mediation. Face-smile.svg I've been following it, though. Sarna wrote, "He [Grant] consciously excluded any mention of it [GO11] from his acclaimed Memoirs." Best wishes, YoPienso (talk) 23:11, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Interview for my dissertation[edit]

hello, My name is yilmaz. I am doing master at Sussex in the field of media and cultural studies and I am writing dissertation about Wikipedia as a commons but I need to have an interview with at least three (3) Wikipedians. I send you an interview form, which consists of twelve questions. The interview is crucial to analyse the main logic of Wikipedia and digital commons. I hope you will help me for this. Best Regards, Yilmaz

I'm not interested in being interviewed but you will likely find others who are more inclined. Good luck with your project.-- KeithbobTalk 15:12, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

DRN -- closed as failed[edit]

Well, that was frustrating! And it seemed like such a straightforward case -- no, you can't synthesize, and yes, you need reliable sources.  :D Thanks for your help! valereee (talk) 16:35, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

If one party was not willing to embrace the standard interpretation of the guidelines then an WP:RfC would be good to demonstrate how the community views the issue and that would create resolution. You could recommend that to the party that filed the DRN. In either case don't feel bad 85% or more of DRN cases end without resolution. -- KeithbobTalk 19:11, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Keith! I don't feel bad -- I just thought it was pretty straightforward.  :) I've watched the page, if I see it starting up again I'll point them in the direction of RfC, thanks! valereee (talk) 20:08, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

youngStartup[edit]

Hi Keithbob!

I was about to help fix up the entry to make it more balanced, I see you beat me to it. I will try to fix it up, better format of paragraphs and NPOV. I saw there were other errors in syntax with links causing it to be reverted. I will see what I can do. I am a long time reader of Wikipedia but new editor.

Please advise if I am helping.

Be well! CaMoBap24 (talk) 18:45, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Please wait till I have finished my rewrite. Thanks.-- KeithbobTalk 18:50, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! I did some changes when I thought you were finished. Sorry if I troubled you. Also I wrote some on talk page there, I will see how the feedback is. I love Wikipedia and enjoy finally learning about all the work that people put in to it! CaMoBap24 (talk) 21:21, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

FYI[edit]

I have mentioned you on the School of Economic Science Talk page. -Roberthall7 (talk) 04:29, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

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