User talk:Keithbob

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Welcome[edit]

Welcome to my talk page

Kasowitz, Benson, Torres & Friedman[edit]

Sorry to bother. I tagged you in a note at Talk:Kasowitz, Benson, Torres & Friedman about incorporating peer review suggestions. Was hoping you could review. Thanks. NinaSpezz (talk) 18:12, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Newspapers.com check-in[edit]

Hello Keithbob,

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Wikipedia Library Newspapers.com account coordinator HazelAB (talk) 19:31, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks[edit]

Thanks for your kind words; I'll be back to DR/N, I just have other drahmahz at the moment. Feel free to ping me if you get a backlog going. Montanabw(talk) 07:05, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 19[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Virtual Wallet, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Android (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 09:01, 19 April 2015 (UTC) Yes check.svg Done-- KeithbobTalk 19:36, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Talkback[edit]

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Keithbob. You have new messages at LFaraone's talk page.
Message added 20:35, 20 May 2015 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

LFaraone 20:35, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Mail[edit]

You've got mail. — TransporterMan (TALK) 16:48, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

got it, thanks!-- KeithbobTalk 20:36, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Will Defer to Your Opinion[edit]

I will defer to your opinion. I didn't think it was off-topic, but will take your advice. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:31, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Mentoring[edit]

Thank you for suggesting mentorship at DR Talk - may I choose you? mm --Atsme📞📧 19:36, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

User:Atsme, Yes, I'd be happy to assist you anytime. Just leave me a note here whenever you need something. On the outside chance you have something private to discuss you can send an email but put a note here saying you sent an email as I don't check my WP email everyday. Cheers!-- KeithbobTalk 21:09, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

DRN moderating[edit]

Hi Keithbob. Noting your comments on the DRN talk page regarding mentor-ship in moderating, I'd like to take you up on that offer. I've had, largely in theoretical teaching, experiences with meditation in real life, but it compares nothing to that of Wikipedia. My typical philosophy is one of finding asking for what everybody wants and asking them to produce more and more similar versions, but I now see that it may not be the most efficient method here. Regardless, I wish to remain involved in dispute resolution here, so I thought that you may be able to point me in the right direction. Any comments are helpful. Thanks in advance! Kharkiv07 (T) 00:19, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Sure, do you have any questions about a case you are moderating now? Or do you want to look at a past case and give some comments? Just let me know what you need. I'm happy to help.-- KeithbobTalk 02:31, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
The case I currently have is a bit of a dud that I think I'll be forced to close... perhaps I'll come back when I take up the next and you can guide me through it? Kharkiv07 (T) 15:00, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
Sure, just give me a ping, when you start :-) -- KeithbobTalk 16:07, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Closed Osgood[edit]

Hi - can you tell me why there is a tag that says "no closing comments were detected"? I put "closed" in the status, and for archive I gave the reason for closing. ??? --Atsme📞📧 18:42, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Solved in the course of solving a related problem. She had accidentally used the {{DRN archive top}} template at the bottom, as well as the top, rather than {{DRN archive bottom}} . What this did was to hide all subsequent threads. Typos in templates are common, and usually obvious and so corrected immediately by the template-inserter. In this odd case, the effect was unobvious, but puzzling to someone who remembered what the previous cases had been. I corrected the bottom. The lack of a closing comment applied to the hiding of everything by accident. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:51, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
Good catch Robert. Thanks! Atsme, does that answer your question or do you need more explanation or assistance? -- KeithbobTalk 03:27, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
Robert handled it perfectly, Keith. I'm good to go. It was an oversight on my behalf and I will certainly be more cautious in the future. Thank you! Atsme📞📧 05:09, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Glad it worked out. I've made many 'mark up' blunders on WP. Don't worry, you are doing great! -- KeithbobTalk 15:57, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Question, re:sanctions imposed by biased admin[edit]

I realize my questions exceed the usual DRN issues, and I apologize. I originally posted to Transporterman's TP so I wouldn't be bothering you with something not DRN related, but it appears I've been railroaded for edit warring when it was actually the other editor who was edit warring but we've heard that before, right? I need a 3O and was hoping you could help.

  • I removed material that was noncompliant with NPOV and expanded the lede citing 3 quality reviews and a 3rd party NBCNews interview using inline text attribution - all compliant with MEDRS and NPOV.
  • The admin who imposed the article sanctions against me has demonstrated an unmistakeable bias toward me in the past, and it has shown up here again. That same admin has demonstrated support of what appears to be a very organized group of editors who have a history of disruptive editing and patterned behaviors. This isn't the first article I have been subjected to their disruptive behavior and attempts to railroad me into a TB.
  • I asked the sanctioning admin to remove the sanctions and to recuse himself from further interactions with me because of his bias. It wasn't that long ago that he imposed an ARBCOM warning against me for a harmless pun and the placement of a rogue emoji on an article TP. It took me nearly a week or more to prove the emoji was not my doing, and included providing screen captures, repeated explanations, and finally getting Technical 13 to validate it from a tech POV. I won't go into the details but the bias is evident.
  1. Do you think this admin's behavior toward me is actionable?
  2. If I file at ARBCOM, should I name all the parties (the admin, the editors who have shown repeated behavioral patterns, diffs of tag-teaming, ill-will and reverts?
  3. Will ARBCOM also decide on the current imposed article sanction and admin's action or do I have to file a separate action?
  4. If I file at ARBCOM, should I also provide evidence (diffs) showing past behaviors of the same admin and editors at different articles other than the one where the sanctions against me are now imposed since this isn't the first article where ill-will has been shown toward me and my edits have repeatedly been reverted based on arguments that are not substantive?

If ARBCOM determines that I am a disruptive BF editor because my edits have been to correct noncompliance with PAGs, then so be it, but I have grown weary of my work being reverted by what appears to be a very organized team of editors who are misapplying MEDRS and NPOV to support what appears to be an advocacy position. I think Someguy1221 nailed it with the following: Under Verifiable "Allowing experts to run the show would merely invite them to introduce their personal biases into articles." It's happening now. --Atsme📞📧 14:42, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Atsme, Based on the information that you've given me I don't see this as the kind of long term behavioral problem that ArbCom is known to address. Generally they only accept cases that involve years of problems and only after all other types of content and behavioral dispute resolution have been exhausted. ArbCom turns down 3-4 times as many cases as it hears. Furthermore, it sounds like this dispute might be taking place at an article already covered by ArbCom discretionary sanctions ie "fringe" topics and ArbCom would automatically refer it to WP:AE. There are other places you could take your dispute such as WP:ANI but beware of the WP:BOOMERANG effect there and at WP:AE as well. WP has no effective 'justice' system. It is administrated by a changing array of individuals (even ArbCom members change each year) and as such it is random and inconsistent and based on the disposition of whatever Admin(s) show up on that day/week. My advice to you is to walk away from the issue and find some other topics to edit that are non-controversial. Probably not what you wanted to hear but that is the best advice I can offer.-- KeithbobTalk 15:54, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Keith. I went to the admin's TP and provided the evidence that supports my position, and requested he repeal the ban/remove it from the log. I realize it's only for a week, and that admin may have had good intentions but had the wool pulled over his eyes - I tend to hold our admins too high on a pedestal because of their knowledge of the system and the work they do as volunteers - and that may contribute somewhat to my disappointment over his actions. While I have walked away from articles that were inundated with disruptive POV pushers (including some admins), I can only half-way agree that walking away from it is the answer because doing so only emboldens the bullies. You are absolutely correct that we should walk away from it for a while to gather our thoughts. However, if we don't do our best to identify and treat the cancer that's plaguing our encyclopedia, and choose instead to just sit back and allow it to take over, then we are equally as guilty for what happens, and in this case, it appears to be trending toward a loss of trust in WP as an encyclopedia. The issues reach much deeper than what most can see at the surface. There are obvious patterned behaviors of advocacy tethered to individual COI that are at play here, and their goal is to remove the competition (or opposition) from "their articles". WP:OWN is rampant in what has become "series of articles". PAGs sometimes prevail but when admins are members of the advocacy, we can't expect much to happen. It's spreading like wild fire, and we're losing GF editors as a result. See the essay I created and co-authored WP:AVDUCK because it addresses some of the issues. Please feel free to add what you think needs to be included. Short of a miracle, I just don't see how I can avoid filing an ARBCOM case going forward and doing whatever else I can to expose the patterned behaviors, bullying, hounding, railroading, etc. It's a crap situation and the smell is offensive. There has been talk of a task force. Atsme📞📧 16:16, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
I admire your courage and integrity. Good luck with your efforts. Best, -- KeithbobTalk 12:34, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you, Keith. I will definitely need the luck. As I see it, my edits are consistently reverted which is the same as not editing so there really isn't much more to lose by trying. 😊 Atsme📞📧 14:08, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Belvedere and Fulhold[edit]

Hey, I reinstated some of the original content on these as there were factual errors and misunderstandings in the material that you added to both. Some of the refs you used didn't support the content they were against either. We also need a proper lead for both. I think you also need to be wary of saying that the Belevedere connection caused the suspension of Fulhold. Although it probably did, we don't know for sure. In addition the allegations about Belvedere remain unproven. Please discuss on talk before editing them further. Philafrenzy (talk) 19:57, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

I've outlined all of my edits and sources on the talk page. Let's discuss and come to an agreement. Best, -- KeithbobTalk 12:35, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Kashmir conflict[edit]

We would like to wait and wish best to The moderator User:Steven Zhang for family emergency. Hope he will be blessed by god and on his return he will do the justice. Keithbob Sir during this waiting period Disputed last para of the lead about election 2014 be removed. It was observed and caused dispute among users so it should be removed until Dispute resolution committee's decision. It is unethical to maintain disputed para for weeks over weeks. It was already on page since last fifteen days to deceive article visitors because its neutrality is seriously questioned and same has been accepted by dispute resolution committee for investigation. 115.186.146.225 (talk) 08:23, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Although it's unhelpful to a dispute, there is not rule that says that changes must wait until an ongoing dispute resolution has been completed. I hope a new DRN volunteer comes forward to help you with your case. Good luck.-- KeithbobTalk 12:38, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

DRN[edit]

I presume it's still a bad time to ask for oversight on the case I'm opening? No pressure whatsoever, whatever works for you! Kharkiv07 (T) 00:00, 6 July 2015 (UTC)