User talk:Kerry Raymond

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Hi Kerry, I was wondering if you knew who owned the selwyn house in Mackay? Or if you knew who I could contact about it? Thanks in advance Bec — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bec1973 (talkcontribs) 07:44, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Bec1973! This 2006 newspaper article mentions the name of the owner and a check in the White Pages online has them still listed at that address. Kerry (talk) 10:44, 23 January 2016 (UTC)


Burns Statue[edit]

Hi Kerry, There has been another Burns Statue erected. It is in front of the Castle Mural, Mary Morrison Memorial Garden, Castle, New Cumnock, Ayrshire. The mural was used for the front of Burns Chronicle many years ago. The statue was erected about three years ago. New Cumnock Group on Facebook use my photo of them. Feel free to use it. Cheers, Geoff — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geoff Crolley (talkcontribs) 12:34, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for that Geoff! I just need to find some time to do some more work on Burns. Kerry (talk) 21:26, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Fowlers Bay[edit]

Nice work on all those images! :) ~ Riana 21:47, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually... nice work all around, turning my crappy little stub into quite a decent article. Well done! :) ~ Riana 22:16, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

List of mayors and lord mayors of Brisbane[edit]

Original Barnstar.png Great work filling out this list, Kerry. Thankyou. :) And hang on... you're that Kerry Raymond...? Small world! :P FiggyBee (talk) 14:15, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


SpecialBarnstar.png The Special Barnstar
for the wonderful input you're giving at the strategy wiki. Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 07:35, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
For your contributions to Brisbane, it's people, and it's history. Great job! Rocketrod1960 21:51, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Happy Australia Day! Thank you for contributing to Australian content![edit]

Awards Announcement (Australia Day Eve, 2005).jpg Australian Wikimedian Recognition (AWR)
Thank you for your contributions on English Wikipedia that have helped improve Australian related content. :D It is very much appreciated. :D Enjoy your Australia Day and please continue your good work! Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:12, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Nice work[edit]

Hi Kerry, I saw you've been doing some good work on Queensland politics etc. and wanted to say thanks. I've been adding some former Victorian electoral districts and upper-house provinces e.g. Central Province (Victoria). Great work on expanding Archibald Archer too, I used the (public domain) The_Dictionary_of_Australasian_Biography at Wikisource as a basis for him and other politicians etc. I spent some time proof-reading the DAB at Wikisource. I found it's a good way to start a biography without running foul of copyright. I also read you "My thoughts about quality in Wikipedia" on your User page and tend to agree. Keep up the good work! Diverman (talk) 03:18, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

At the Australian noticeboard[edit]

Your new stubs are showing up well - one small issue as a long time tagger - the lack of a project tag on the talk pages is very noticeable.... we used to have many years ago it feels, a very generous editor who spent his life following around users who seemed to have no interest in project tags (they are very important for project assessment) - however he has long gone (like most...) and as a consequence, see all those little red talk pages at ? sats 10:57, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

have tinkered with some, when creating stubs please consider the possibility of adding project tags, as user:longhair has truly long left the heavy editing stage involvement in the project... sats 01:08, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

see alsos[edit]

Hi, have added these links to the {{Queensland former LGAs}} box that appears (or at least should appear) at the bottom of every article in the series. Orderinchaos 06:46, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Brisbane Heritage Listings[edit]

Hi, I note on the cfd for Taringa that you mention that you are negotiating for the Heritage Listings to be CC-licensed. See if you can get a enWikisource compatible license, then we can host the Listings over there. There's a current project with the QLD library to scan, host and proofread various of their holdings, so you might be able to hook in with that. Have a chat to User:Lankiveil and/or User:John Vandenberg if that's an approach you'd be interested in. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:18, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

I hadn't been thinking in terms of Wiki Source for the heritage register because it's not a scan-and-transcribe situation. Although the subject matter is historic, the register itself was commenced in 1992 and is "born digital"; I understand it is an Oracle database. I've requested access via the Queensland Government's Open Data initiative which will mean the data (if released) would most likely be available as a spreadsheet under a CC-BY license. But you are right that there may be other uses of the data on the other projects. Lankiveil and John Vandenberg are aware of my negotiations. Kerry (talk) 21:27, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Wikisource does accept born digital sources. e.g. CIA World Fact Book, 2004 John Vandenberg (chat) 00:53, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Local Government Areas[edit]

Bloody fantastic job you're doing with these. I wish we could get better information about where exactly they were located but I see the source material isn't that detailed. The Drover's Wife (talk) 11:08, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, these articles would be a lot better with some maps, especially to explain all the splits and merges that go on. The word descriptions in the Qld Govt Gazette are probably detailed enough if you already have maps of that era because they refer to things like the names of pastoral runs and former placenames which don't appear on current maps. But getting hold of historical maps is my problem. Some do exist for the LGAs of different eras at the State Archives, but I haven't yet been able to sort out their copyright status or how I'd get them digitised (some are huge - A0 or larger); I'd need the active cooperation of the archives. The sort of thing I dream of having for the former LGAs would be something along the lines of this animated gif showing the evolution of the states of Australia. If I can find a way to do the maps, I will, but at the moment, I'm still struggling to get a minimal history written for all the LGAs. I am not even sure I have the complete list of LGAs yet; every time I think I do, another one pops up its head. Kerry (talk) 20:18, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
It might be worth emailing the archives and having a chat to them about it - it's not like there isn't tons of effort and funding going into digitisation with the advent of Trove and such, and it's not like it's a hugely esoteric topic. In the meantime, where are you getting your hands on the Queensland Government Gazette? If that's digitised I'd like to have a crack at extracting information from them myself but if it isn't there ain't much I can do from WA. The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:31, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
I have some contacts at the archives, so I'll probably talk face-to-face, but the problem with the archives is they don't "own" the items they hold; they merely care for them on behalf of other government departments, so issues like closure and licensing aren't decided by the archives but by the originating govt department (which often no longer exists and its notional successor department is not interested in investing time making deliberations on archival material -- easier just to say NO quickly). If the material is legally out of copyright, I have a chance of getting it. If it's not, then I suspect it will just be a time-consuming but ultimately unsuccessful run-around to try to get it CC-licensed (I've yet to have any success at that sort of thing despite an official govt policy on open data!). However, for the Qld Govt Gazette, I do have some good news. It is available online from 1859 to 1900 but it is a bit difficult to use (slow and searching doesn't seem to work very well). I find it easier (but bad for my download quotas) to download individual PDFs (which are huge -- not the 20M or so they say but more like 200M) and work with them locally. The OCR-ing is sort-of OK but some searches will fail to find things that you expect to be there and so you have to find things by reading it. So, better than looking at microfilm at the archives, but still quite frustrating at times. Kerry (talk) 06:11, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
FWIW, I suggest if you are downloading the QGG PDF files, user a PDF tool that will search across multiple PDF files. I downloaded this free tool based on this advice and find it quite useful. Kerry (talk) 06:17, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
Ta. I'll have a play around with the files tomorrow, when I get back to an actual proper internet connection. The Drover's Wife (talk) 12:24, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I'd be willing to help, ( I also have the download limit issue) I understand the archive system a little, anything under 30 yrs that you need help email or hard copy contacting & making info requests for keep me in mind. --Andys'edtits (talk) 17:15, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

I am currently in the process of getting a 1902 division map digitised; it is the only pre-1903 map (when the divisions become shires) that I have found for the whole of Queensland. It is out of copyright. Watch this space .... Kerry (talk) 20:31, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
How exciting! Thanks for digging that up! The Drover's Wife (talk) 23:09, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
Local government areas (municipalities, shires and divisions) in Queensland, March 1902
Just arrived today! Now to work out what to do with it! Kerry (talk) 06:54, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
It's not perfect. It was stored folded so it has split along some of the fold lines as is evident when you view it 1-to-1, but still ... 06:57, 30 October 2013 (UTC)


I understand you have various ideas about what works and what doesnt and how it all does here and what the matter is and so on, so I thought i'd just drop a note, to say that redirects do not carry categories. Doing great work! well done! cheers satusuro 02:05, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I agree in general one wouldn't add a category to a redirect and I don't usually do so. But redirects can have categories and I added them quite deliberately for these former local government area redirects as I felt it fitted the situation of Wikipedia:Categorizing redirects#Alternative names for articles. The history of these local government authorities is tortuous, they split, they merge, they change their names, they change status from division/shire/borough/town/city (and most of these changes actually create new and distinct legal entities). This means that one has situations where the story of Kianawah Division and its various successors is more-or-less similar in their history to the Town of Wynnum, so it make sense with the level of information currently available to just have a single article covering the 4 or so LGAs that share a more-or-less common territory and redirect the others, but this might not be always the case in the future when they grow and possibly develop into separate articles. There are also weird situations where the Shire of XYZ co-exists with the Town of XYZ as separate entities (which I don't think most people would expect). So unless all of the former LGAs appear in the Category:Former Local Government Areas of Queensland, readers are likely to think there isn't an article on a particular LGA or not realise they are looking at the wrong LGA article. So I think what I am doing is what I am supposed to be doing in such circumstances. Kerry (talk) 04:50, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
Fair enough - thanks for taking the time to explain so well..former lgas in most parts of the world can be damned headaches to sort through - so you are doing an important job there.. satusuro 07:13, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

request for help[edit]

HI. Andys'edtits here. working on extending local stub, Labrador Qld,,_Queensland It really needs a 'review & page structure layout and prose tidy/edit' please. I can't write prose well. Left minor Q on it's talk page. Thanks in advance.--Andys'edtits 05:30, 21 October 2013 (UTC)


Hi Kerry, thanks for the Christmas greeting. Merry Christmas to you too! Graham87 09:42, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks and best wishes[edit]

Hi Kerry, thanks for your Xmas wishes, I hope you had a good one. Thanks to you also for your contributions during 2013. Have a great New Year. Diverman (talk) 19:52, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Toowong Cemetery[edit]

Hi Kerry, I was going to go into the Notable people interred section on the Toowong Cemetery article and do some culling of that list but noticed you have added a couple of more names to it so have not touched it.

The reason I was going to trim it back is because there is a category for the burials at that cemetery and the current list was starting to look cumbersome. Seeing as you and I seem to have by far the most edits for Toowong Cemetery I was just wondering what your thought are......

Hope you had a great Christmas and wishing you an even better new year.

Rocketrod1960 (talk) 05:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Rocketrod1960! Good question and one that has troubled me too. According to WP:NOTDUP it's quite acceptable to have a list and a category because they serve different purposes and that's not a reason to delete one or other. There are 97 members of the Category and about 28 (by quick count) in the list. One of the list members doesn't have an article (and therefore can't be in the category), but all the other people in the list do have an article and I assume (haven't checked) that those articles are all in the category (or could be put into the category if not already there). So, what to do? Options I can think of:
  1. Put all the articles in the category into the list to make them more consistent. If so, the list really becomes too long for the article so we'd probably need to put the list into a separate article "List of notable people buried in Toowong Cemetery" and link to that from the "Toowong Cemetery" article.
  2. Perhaps the people listed in the article should just be the "most notable" ones, but then how does one decide which are most notable?
  3. Just put the people who don't yet have an article in the list in the Toowong Cemetery article and link to the Category for the rest. Currently the Toowong Cemetery article has a link to the Category but without any explanation. It might be better to be explicit and say "A list of people buried in Toowong Cemetery can be found in the Category:Burials at Toowong Cemetery and in the list below". Of course, to put people in the list we'd have to think they were notable enough that one day someone might write an article. There's about 40,000+ people buried in Toowong so we don't want them all appearing in the list!
  4. Do nothing and don't worry about it (which is more or less what I've been doing so far)

I think option 3 might be the best option. Your thoughts? Kerry (talk) 07:34, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Another thought is that we dump the category on the grounds of WP:DEFINING as it's hard to argue that someone is "defined" by being buried in a particular place or that this is part of their notability, and replace it with a "List of" article. But if we want to go down that path, then it begs the question about all the other Burial categories, in which case maybe we need to raise the question at some higher level in the category tree. Then I looked at the category tree. What a mess! Burials in Toowong Cemetery is a sub-cat of Cemeteries in Queensland (that is, people are in a place category!). Cemeteries in Queensland is a sub-cat of amongst other things Visitor attractions in Queensland. So we have dead people who are visitor attractions?! Kerry (talk) 07:57, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi again Kerry, I now have a headache thanks to you and all those options!! But what I did was have a look at Rookwood Cemetery in Sydney. There are about one million burials there but list just 18 notable "inhabitants". I know most of the names listed there whereas a lot of the "notable" people interred at Toowong would be of little consequence to most people. By the way, Toowong has around 120,000 burials.

May I suggest cutting it back to the following people? Anderson Dawson, politician and Premier of Queensland and also leader of the first labour government anywhere in the world. Frank Forde, politician and Prime Minister of Australia Samuel Griffith, politician, Premier of Queensland, Chief Justice, and a principal author of the Constitution of Australia Charles Heaphy, explorer and recipient of the Victoria Cross Peter Jackson, boxer Percy McDonnell, Australian Cricket Captain Steele Rudd, Australian Author

Maybe we could then say there are also X number of Brisbane Mayors, X number of Qld Premiers, and X number of Qld Governers.

Now here is my dilemma. I also the attitude that Australians know far too little of our history (And that does not mean just from 1770!) and so therefore we should include even more people so readers may click on the person to learn about his/her accomplishments.

Maybe the option of doing nothing for now sounds good. I do agree though that we should immediately change to "A list of people buried in Toowong Cemetery can be found in the Category:Burials at Toowong Cemetery and in the list below". If Thomas Mathewson is to remain in the list we need to find a couple of good references for him. I also think we should delete the "famous Queensland Photographer. (not even a grave marker though)" to simply "Photographer" or something close to that.

Rocketrod1960 (talk) 14:18, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Toowong Cemetery oozes history

Well, since we agree on some better wording about the category and the list, I've implemented that (I can't see why that should upset anyone). But when it comes to pruning the list, I already see the problem. The set of names you suggest include a boxer and a cricketer I've never heard of and left out Forgan Smith and T.J. Ryan who I would have said are both very important. Now while I am not one to get too upset about such things, I am guessing that if we start eliminating people from the list, we'll upset someone. Rookwood Cemetery is interesting in that they don't have a category for burials, so there is no easy way of knowing what other inhabitants (interesting word choice!) might be notable. That's why I am tempted to push the list of notables in Toowong out into a separate article. Once it's in a separate list article, the list can be as long as anyone wants it to be and include people with and without articles (although I'd be tempted to prune out any additions without obvious notability). It's really only a problem when you get long lists inside non-list articles. So just have the heading "Notable people interred" and then a "Main article: List of notable people interred in Toowong Cemetery" and leave it at that. What do you think?

Re: Thomas Mathewson. A quick Google search for "thomas mathewson queensland photographer" shows he is notable. He was indeed buried in Toowong and there was no headstone still evident by the 1980s.

BTW You are right about the number of burials (there are 43000 people memorialised on about 25000 headstones, which are the figures which always sticks in my mind as people often ask us when we are going to photograph the headstones, as we have done in other cemeteries and that number is the reason I explain why we haven't done so!). Kerry (talk) 23:16, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Maybe we should be raising this issue on Talk:Toowong Cemetery? We might get more opinions. Kerry (talk) 23:23, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi again, leaving out TJ Ryan and Forgan Smith would have been a disaster I guess! Ryan's grave is just across the path from my grandparents (Douglas and Maud Easton) and since I was a toddler I marveled at his huge headstone and it's inscription. I have already added the references for Thomas Mathewson but deleted "famous" and the part about not having a headstone. I have taken hundreds of photos of graves and scenery at Toowong but I am now living in Geelong and that has ended my quest to also photograph every grave there.

And as for Peter Jackson, he was possibly the greatest boxer of the 19th century. Percy McDonnell is the only Australian Cricket Captain buried in Toowong. They were the main reasons I suggested keeping them.

Anyway as you have suggested, I am going to put up my original comments on the Talk page and let's see what suggestions are put forward.

Rocketrod1960 (talk) 01:18, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Kerry Raymond[edit]

--Pratyya (Hello!) 13:26, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

New category[edit]

Well that was the largest category I have ever populated. I didn't check its non-river boundary to make sure buildings and things from that area were included. I am sure there are more transport-related articles that should be in there too. Just thought I would mention this so if your up to it you can check it has been comprehensively added to articles it should. - Shiftchange (talk) 12:23, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

You have been busy! Thanks! :-) One thing that I must admit is not enormously clear to me is whether Brisbane CBD is intended to be just the central suburb called Brisbane (which was mentally how I was treating it when I put it in the Suburbs of Brisbane category) or whether people perceive it as where the business premises area, in which case they are spreading out into Spring Hill, Fortitude Valley, etc. But I figured it was pretty odd that we have categories for many suburbs (OK, I put a lot of them there) but not for the central suburb. Once I get the Heritage Register stuff happening, there will be many more entries for the CBD category, but I am awaiting the return of public servants from summer holidays to hear about the progress on the CC-licensing (they've said they will do it, but still waiting on it to actually happen). Kerry (talk) 13:05, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
As a general guideline I think it has been established that we should follow the Australian Bureau of Statistics for boundaries. As I understand it Google Maps aligns with the ABS so it can trusted for suburb and other boundaries. I am confident that using suburbs as a category would be standard practice where as a vague business area would be problematic. I have thought we needed a category for the CBD for a while now. I did notice no other major Australian city has an equivalent category. We may need to create a sub-category Heritage buildings in the Brisbane central business district. Great news on the licensing front. - Shiftchange (talk) 14:19, 20 January 2014 (UTC)


I agree that workshop trainees are best not to use AfC. It has a number of issues working against making contributions. Perhaps the worst problem is seeing perfectly adequate articles rejected, usually by one person, without sufficient consideration in order to reduce the long queues. Maybe new article creation should not be a workshop priority or at least be one of a number of optional goals. One alternative could be to improve a stub article to start class. - Shiftchange (talk) 02:13, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Indeed! They reject perfectly adequate stub/start articles; do they think they are assessing for GA or FA? The reason for rejection is very general; feedback needs to be more specific, so people know precisely what they need to fix to get the article accepted. Also, a series of different reviewers reject the article for different reasons, one says not enough citations, then the next ones says not notable enough. Of course, it doesn't help when we ask people to pick their own topics, some of which do turn out to be pretty marginal when it comes to notability. And trying to explain to a trainee about the sandbox is impossible; I suspect most of them can't find their draft article when they get home. What I was thinking of doing for the next lot of edit training (if and when?!) was to set up a bunch of stubs which I know are notable enough and for which there is good online material (e.g. Queensland Heritage Register entries, ADB entries, etc), and then do as you say, assign each one to a different stub and get them to take the article a little bit further. The only risk to this plan is that some other editor will come along and demand to speedy delete the stubs or dramatically expand them before the class! I have been told there is some template you can use to flag that an article is being developed in an educational context; that might mitigate the risk (assuming I can find out what the template is). I think the trainees will get a much greater sense of achievement if they can go home and point to a live WP article and say "look what I did". Of course it's more work to prepare for such a course. Kerry (talk) 02:54, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
Having a set of possible stub articles for working on is a great idea. We can start creating that list immediately, at say User:Kerry Raymond/Workshop stub articles. Criteria might be notability established, online references available and within the scope of WikiProject Queensland. Ideally there would be a several suggestions across the range of Category:Main topic classifications. Another possibility is for participants to address a specific cleanup task from this list. Some of these are much easier than others. Nearly all of them would require some guidance and tips on how to complete them efficiently. With this approach you have article creation for more confident/moderately experienced participants, article development for mid-level participants and minor maintenance tasks for the totally inexperienced. Maybe Template:Educational assignment is the template you were told about? - Shiftchange (talk) 04:27, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
Another criteria: a photo (suitably-licensed) for uploading to Commons. I would prefer to limit the stubs to the categories in the quieter backwaters of Wikipedia (avoid the shark-infested waters of ferocious editors), preferably categories that are low-risk in terms of creating controversy. Off the top of my head, I'd avoid anything to do with religion and politics (too much risk of POV), business (risk of conflict-of-interest), law & health (risk of mis-information), bios of living people (risk of litigation). History and geography are probably safe enough. Actually geography is pretty good, because we have:
  • Queensland Place Names (where is it, how did it gets its name)
  • Queensland Places (for some history)
  • census data
  • there's usually some kind of out-of-copyright photo on the State Library of Queensland site
  • and a bit of googling usually produces some kind of tourist information (there's a BBQ and a boat launching ramp)

and Queensland geography is not usually controversial and all trainees understand it before they walk in the door. And there are usually loads of redlinks hanging off all the local government articles for towns/suburbs/localities. And it is your special topic should any particularly hairy geography questions arise. Yes, I think you have found the template (good, because I didn't manage to find it). Kerry (talk) 05:02, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

So if we have a list of suggested articles provided at the workshop how will people be able to bring a relevant photo? Are you planning on distributing it to participants beforehand or are you saying we should only make suggestions which have a photo on WikiCommons? Many places which don't now have articles are remote and its unlikely people will have a photo of those places. Also in your last comment are you referring to articles to be created, existing stubs or both? Thinking about it, I think your preference to limit the range of articles to geography (and history) is a good compromise. By compromise I mean while possibly not suiting all workshop participants and not ideal for Wikipedia's best interests, it is best for training purposes. On the other hand if someone really wants to write an article about their favourite 19th century shearer or obscure law we should allow it. The reason being that any issues which arise can be instructive for everyone. Participants needs to understand collaboration includes conflict resolution and consensus making.
The Template:Under construction template may be useful as well. We have Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/To-do/Localities and Wikipedia:WikiProject Queensland/Requested articles#Geography. For the moment I will not create a specific list because I noticed you used the word 'if' there are any more workshops. - Shiftchange (talk) 12:16, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Cyril Tenison White[edit]

Cheers Kerry, and for your improvements to the article, Regards, Brass razoo (talk) 02:38, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

A Tesla Roadster for you![edit]

Roadster 2.5 windmills trimmed.jpg A Tesla Roadster for you!
Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia! Gg53000 (talk) 13:41, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

A Tesla Roadster for you![edit]

Roadster 2.5 windmills trimmed.jpg A Tesla Roadster for you!
Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia! Gg53000 (talk) 13:41, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

WikiDefender Barnstar Hires.png The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
Hi Kerry,

I'm currently going through family research for well connected ladies of country Australia - verifying and nullifying for their own benefit. I have no Wiki experience, however your VERY quick edit of Herbert Hyland is greatly impressive - keep up the good work! Canola88 (talk) 07:55, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

A bowl of strawberries for you![edit]

Erdbeerteller01.jpg Thanks for the Barnstar you awarded me, I appreciate your support. Diverman (talk) 12:16, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Couple of things[edit]

Would you mind having a look at the recently created Feminism in Australia? I've given it a few hours and would value your input. Also would you mind if I archive this page and move your barnstars and awards to your user page? - Shiftchange (talk) 06:48, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Re: feminism. Firstly, you are very brave to tackle the topic! But it's certainly better than it was for your efforts. I think the Feminism in Australia article might be better if it stuck more to the issues, the legislative changes, etc rather than too much emphasis on the individuals and the organisations (I realise that is how you found it). Generally, it isn't possible to attribute any particular change to a specific individuals/groups -- many individuals/groups were probably pushing for similar things (albeit with different flavours). It's maybe OK to the mention the "first"s, e.g. first women in parliament, first .., as they are significant marks in the timeline that are often used in comparisons with other countries, and also those claims are usually more clear-cut (you were either the first female prime minister or you weren't). And, of course, there is the very unclear distinction between "feminists" and "high achieving women"? Are feminists those who were active in seeking political change on feminist issues, or do all high-achieving women who hold feminist views count? Can men who hold feminist views or supported feminist initiatives be included? And since when has the Women's Weekly had anything much to do with feminism?! These are the reasons I say you are very brave to tackle this topic! From a structural standpoint there are a cluster of articles and categories that are all somewhat overlapping, e.g. Category:Feminism in Australia is independent of Category:Women's rights in Australia, and similarly Category:Feminist organisations in Australia is unrelated to Category:Women's organisations in Australia. The article Feminism in Australia has a section on notable feminists (and mentions many more in the chronological sections), yet there is also Category:Australian women's rights activists and I think I saw a list article of some sort too. In that regard, it might be better to shift the lists of notable feminists and organisations off into list articles, but I think this article and related ones are places where it may be easy to be "too bold". I would suggest going slowly and seeking opinion on the Talk page. Kerry (talk) 07:55, 30 April 2014 (UTC)


Tireless Contributor Barnstar.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
For tireless quality work on Qld articles LibStar (talk) 07:21, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Any chance you could help me?[edit]

I've been following the incredible work you've been doing on Queensland localities for a while now, and I've suddenly got a lot more time on my hands with a decent internet connection and noticed how bad Wikipedia's coverage of places around where I grew up is. I can pretty easily see where to get most of the information I'd need from your references, but I can't for the life of me work out how you find the coordinates, generate the maps, and work out the "distance from X" section. I was wondering if you might be able to point me in the right direction? The Drover's Wife (talk) 17:10, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

I can probably help more if you are from Queensland than if you are from another state as I am using a lot of Queensland-specific resources. A lot of the sites I use can be found at User:Kerry Raymond#Places where I have keep my copy-and-paste citations for them to speed up the task (I just do a null edit at the start of each day of that page to force the accessdate fields to update to "today"'s date -- today may be yesterday because it's server time). To answer your specific questions:
  • for coordinates (also suburb/locality/town, LGA, and possible origin of name) [Queensland Place Names] -- if you grew up in another state, their Place Names board will have a similar thing or just use the overall Australian place names site but the state ones usually contain a bit more info
  • generating the maps - you don't have to generate the map - it generates itself - it is just a matter of supplying the coordinates in DMS into the [Template:Infobox_Australian_place/Blank#Pushpin_map_fields]] and making sure you put the correct abbreviation in the state field of the Australian place infobox -- "qld" in my case -- and the map with a pushpin in the right part of the state magically appears.
  • for the "distance from X" I use a feature in Google Maps - details here to turn it on - note that it only works with "old Google Maps" - it's then a question of sticking a pin into the two locations and the distance between them is displayed. I find it's a bit unreliable -- if it seems to stop working for you, close the browser window and restart it and that usually fixes it. You can also do it in Google Earth with its measure tool. I also use Google Maps by eye for writing geography about whatever rivers, mountains, highways, national park etc are in the area. Using both map and satellite mode, I find it useful to get some clues about what might be in the district that might be worth writing about in the articles, as often I write about places I have never visited and know nothing about.
  • I use the Queensland Globe] which is a set of layers over Google Earth which provides me with lots of things like boundaries of suburbs/localities for the adjacent suburb/locality info, also state/federal electorates.

I hope that helps. If you are looking at not-Qld, then I know some of the other states have similar tools, but I have no real exoerience with them. Happy to answer more questions if you have them. Kerry (talk) 22:08, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks so much - this is phenomenally helpful. I'm planning on working on Victorian localities so it's not the same, but what doesn't directly apply I've now been able to find alternatives for. I'll be able to do a lot with this. The Drover's Wife (talk) 07:34, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Good job![edit]

Hi Kerry, and good job on getting the Pinnaroo Cemetery and Crematorium, Brisbane page up and running. I have added a few famous people to it so far....

Unfortunately though I now live in Geelong and it is a bit far to travel to now to take a heap of photos to add. :(

Rocketrod1960 (talk) 08:51, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! I had noticed you adding the links (I recently turned on some notification preferences that enables me to see what's being linked to pages on my watchlist). Re a photo. I am probably better place to get a photo; if only I could remember to take my camera with me when I am driving about for other purposes ... Kerry (talk) 21:50, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Thoughts on using electors instead of census data in some cases?[edit]

Hi Kerry, I had an idea about our problem with the ABS census districts and I'd like your opinion. I've noticed that the Victorian Electoral Commission releases data about the number of electors in every single locality, and have been thinking about whether this might be an alternative where the census districts are so whacked as to be unusable. I can see this as providing more helpful data in for a lot of small towns: for instance, on the article I just wrote, Bellarine, Victoria, saying there's 81 properties and 134 electors in those boundaries might be more useful than saying that the ABS throws it in with Portarlington, Victoria and another area and comes up with 3,580 people. What do you think? The Drover's Wife (talk) 11:22, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Short answer: yes. Longer answer. Currently Australia has a population of 23.5M of which 16M are eligible to vote which is a ratio of 68%. However, small country localities are disproportionately likely to be Australian citizens (compared with cities where recent immigrants go) and they tend to be older (fewer children), so I'd guess that the ratio of electors to population is probably more like 75-80% in a small country locality. If we go with the 68% ratio, that would estimate the population of Bellarine as 197 people. If we went with 80%, it would estimate the population as 167, with 75% it would be 179. Since we know the ABS is using 180 as their cut-off, it would suggest that 80% is probably a good ballpark. So as a proxy for actual numbers, it looks like an under-estimate of around 20-25% (mostly children). But, I am not convinced that readers of Wikipedia have any need for the exact numbers on census night in Bellarine (or anywhere else). Anyone with a genuine need for that level of detail would talking to the ABS directly. I imagine that most readers of Wikipedia use the population simply as a indication of "how big a place is it?" in which case #properties and #electors serves the purpose just as well as population data. And, as an aside, number of properties is an interesting data point as well for the reader. Out of intellectual curiosity only, do you know if it is a count of number of dwellings or simply the number of distinct addresses among the electors, that is, does it include empty dwellings and dwellings with folk who are ineligible for the electoral roll, e.g. non-citizens). I need to go and see if the Qld Electoral Commission report similar data as I am increasingly writing about these "too small" localities and sharing your frustration with the lack of census data. Kerry (talk) 22:34, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
Can you point me at Victorian electoral data that you are talking about? I didn't manage to find it with a quick Google search. Thanks Kerry (talk) 22:39, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
This was basically my thinking. I'm not sure how they arrive at the properties figure (and would be happy to leave that out). The VEC's website is amazingly useless for a lot of things but I found the numbers in a really useful PDF at The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:12, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
I reckon you could leave in the property figures, even if we aren't 100% sure what they represent. They will be "near enough" and I think helps to give a flavour of the kind of place being described. I just looked at the PDF. I don't know if you noticed some localities are listed twice; I think because they are split between two electorates, in which case you would need to add them together. Kerry (talk) 02:17, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
That's because the VEC is much more precise than the ABS: where a locality contains more than one state electorate, local government area, or local government ward, they break down their figures into the amount of electors in the locality that fall into each. Thanks for your feedback, anyway - I'll start adding this information in. The Drover's Wife (talk) 03:07, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Bertram Steele.[edit]

Hi Kerry, I was the person who originally added Bertram Steele as a notable burial but on the weekend I had a think about it and deleted him. I am guessing that because the first crematorium in Brisbane did not open till a few months after he died there was no choice but to bury him.

It is unusual though that they didn't just bury his wife in the same plot.

As it happens, I was going to State Library today so I had a look in the crematorium index. Unfortunately they index the date of death not the date of cremation, which wasn't helpful with trying to figure out when BS was cremated. Fortunately they retain the register numbers which appear to be chronological. So based on the dates of death of other folk with nearby register numbers (who I presume would have been cremated within a day or two of death), it appears BS was cremated around the 2nd week of February 1937, which doesn't yield any insights into why it happened. There is no mention of the Steele family in the newspapers of that time, but I guess exhuming and cremating deceased people isn't exactly something you'd announce in the newspaper. Maybe we will never know ... Kerry (talk) 05:50, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Now it's annoying me that we don't know why they dug him up!! I looked and looked through the old Courier Mails but no luck. I will have one more try tonight and if still cannot find anything i will move on. Rocketrod1960 (talk) 06:54, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Since the info was in the ADB entry, I wonder where they got it from so I was looking at their Select Bibliography for any clues. Knowing he was cremated in 1937 means we can rule out anything published before this. And I am not sure it is the sort of information that would be in the RACI proceedings, so I think the info probably came from one of the first two books. As it happens, the first is available online and doesn't mention anything about burial and cremation and the second one is an unpublished manuscript (sigh -- that may be a bit harder to obtain!). Kerry (talk) 20:47, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

RFC at Wikipedia for page protection[edit]

Last call for opinions on RFC at Wikipedia page for page protection extension. User:Pundit is in support of increasing gender equality at Wikipedia and another user is opposed to User:Pundit's efforts. Cheers. LawrencePrincipe (talk) 17:28, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

survey markers of australia[edit]

Surveying and Geography of Q feel too far broad and generic to be correct, but typical of wp - there is nothing in the short term to help that. satusuro 04:05, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

indeed, I was surprised to find nothing more refined for parent category but that may organically resolve itself in time. My need (the automation of the Qld heritage register) has a number of survey marks so I needed a category and that was the best I can do. Kerry (talk) 05:03, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
think the 'earlier fit' - because they were border pegs lets them get away with specificity of border markers - if you indeed have non state border pegs of notability/significance in the good old qld register - then I think there is a need for narrower cat - when I am on the ground in oz will investigate further (unless s-one else gets there before me....) best wishes from os satusuro 06:16, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
I might quibble about details of the wikibomb, but there's doubt you're doing a lots of editing and got some lots of positive press coverage. BTW, I've created and started to populate Category:Indigenous_Australian_women_academics. Stuartyeates (talk) 07:17, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Victoria Tunnel[edit]

Hello Kerry,

sorry for the delay in replying, just saw your message.

The QHR listing data for the Victoria Tunnel came from (if memory serves) a QR tender document I happened to see at work, so I'll check the file on Monday and get back to you after then.




there was finally a break in the traffic work-wise, and I've checked the QR tender which mentions the heritage listing of Victoria Tunnel, but it doesn't give any detail as to the name of the listing. Good luck with your articles.



Thanks for trying. Maybe I'll ask the Qld Heritage Register folks and see if they can figure it out. Kerry (talk) 23:55, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

A kitten just for you![edit]

Kitten in a helmet.jpg

Why? Because I saw a kitten you gave somebody else and I liked it so much I think you deserve one! (And cause it's fun to give out kittens!)

DangerousJXD (talk) 02:38, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Queensland Heritage Register[edit]

I don't follow the .au talk pages closely, but ping me when you start creating pages en mass and need help manually sorting issues. I'll be glad to help, because I do similar work. Stuartyeates (talk) 07:29, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Stuart! I will. I am just a bit bogged down at the moment with preparing for a number of Wikimedia Australia events coming up in the next few weeks. Kerry (talk) 22:45, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm mainly just going through and writing ledes and wikifying and organising the QHR text, but please feel free to yell at me if I'm doing anything you'd rather I didn't. The Drover's Wife (talk) 16:13, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Please keep up the good work. The ledes are somewhat minimal because generating them limits me to meta-data content (which varies from entry to entry). Only a human can pick out the key points from the text itself. Kerry (talk) 22:26, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
If you've got time, it might be nice to have a few more generated articles - I have very little to do at the moment so I'll probably get through the ones that are there on my own with a fine-tooth comb in a day or two. The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:07, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, I will try and get some more up ASAP. Kerry (talk) 21:42, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

All Saints Anglican Church, Yandilla[edit]

Hi, just following up on the copyright bot notice. I see that you stated that the source for this was CC-BY, so is not a copyright violation. Can you name/link the source? The content, while free, does require attribution of the source for license compliance. If you let me know what the source was, I can apply the proper attribution template. In future, you can just name the source in the first edit summary and that will suffice for attribution. Thanks for your contributions! CrowCaw 22:43, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

  • Never mind, I see it now, thanks! CrowCaw 23:59, 18 October 2014 (UTC)


My pleasure! It's a project I find really interesting, and I'm just sad I'm not getting through them a bit faster - I was hoping to have more done by now but it's been a rough couple of weeks. The Drover's Wife (talk) 13:46, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Can I make one suggestion? I've noticed with the Toowoomba articles that the automatic transfer sometimes makes a bit of a hash of the wikilinks to other QHR buildings, and I've been fixing a few. It might be worth, if it isn't too much hassle, adding places from the same town at once - so e.g. with Laidley, we can make sure the wikilinks are pointing where they should in one hit and they don't get missed as we go through. Again, don't worry about it if it's too much hassle, just a suggestion. The Drover's Wife (talk) 17:45, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes, that's what I am trying to do for that very reason. It's just a bit hard with places like Toowoomba that have a lot of sites so you can't get them all loaded at the same time. But the other Laidley's are indeed coming up next. Kerry (talk) 18:56, 6 November 2014 (UTC)


Hi Kerry, I'm running into a few headaches with articles where the Heritage Register entries are quite out of date, and I'm wondering if you're actually in the area and could maybe shed some light. Both the Toowoomba Technical College and G Wyman Building, Laidley articles state that they are still in operation when a Google search would suggest - but not definitively in reliable sources - that they've both closed, and several years ago at that. The Toowoomba Post Office says that it's likely to be sold soon, when Google suggests that it's not only been sold but redeveloped. I'm also not too sure about the current status of Toowoomba Permanent Building Society, of which Google is again unclear. This is less of a problem in cases like the latter, but in others - such as the Technical College - I'm not even sure if all the buildings referenced in the article are still standing. Any help you could give would be much appreciated. The Drover's Wife (talk) 14:42, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I think many of the entries in the heritage register reflect things as they were at the time of the heritage listing. Some of them do have a paragraph (usually at the end of the history section) that seem to reflect some later change, but as you've seen yourself, many are out of date. Certainly the Toowoomba Post Office is not a post office any more; I was eating my breakfast there two days ago in a cafe that now operates out of one wing. I think this is where Wikipedia articles serve the readers as anyone can update the WP articles to reflect changes (so do go ahead and update the articles if you have sources discussing current uses). However, the QHR don't list things that are completely gone; they do remove them from the register after a while; I guess they wait until it's clear there will be no attempt to reconstruct them. For example, I notice that the Caboonbah Homestead quietly disappeared from their website in the last year or so having been destroyed by fire in 2009 and attempts to raise funds to reconstruct it seem to have been unsuccessful. Of course, we don't have to remove the corresponding articles from Wikipedia, because the infobox being used has a date field for "demolished" and "delisted" covering both possibilities separately or together so we can retain the articles. I might ask the QHR people if they would give me the text for the delisted places so we can still tell their story on Wikipedia, but maybe after I've dealt with the existing ones! For example, last weekend I found the heritage-listed Men's Toilet, Russell Street, Toowoomba was gone and roadworks taking place there but I have found some newspaper articles [2] [3] [4] saying it has been removed temporarily and will be reinstated after the work is finished, so I presume it will remain on the heritage register. Kerry (talk) 22:32, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for catching and sourcing the Men's Toilet one - that was one I hadn't picked up yet! I don't suppose you'd happened to know of any citations for the others? The Technical College is one where it'd be particularly good to make some kind of update, because so much of the text reflects its then-open status. It would also be fantastic if we could get our hands on the text for the delisted places - that's a great idea. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:03, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
I'll have a look and add whatever I can find. Kerry (talk) 02:23, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
I've found a few helpful things, and these situations just got a whole lot easier more generally, thanks to the kind soul on AWNB who just pointed out how I could get Factiva access back, but this and this is throwing me in the case of the Technical College. I can't work out exactly where these fit in with our article: I can't work out which bits got demolished, which bits were converted into the SES facility, and if the latter was also part of the former. Hoping your local knowledge might come in handy here. And now I discover Toowoomba Foundry is about to be partially demolished to become a Bunnings, and Defiance Flour Mill, Toowoomba closed in 2012 and is also going to under go major redevelopment. This is proving to be a little bit of a challenge! The Drover's Wife (talk) 04:00, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
Thinking about this further, I wonder if a solution might be to just delete the "description" section from the technical college, mill and foundry articles - those ones where the changes are quite large. In each case, it's really not clear in reliable sources (or likely to become so) exactly which parts of the listing are still intact, and it appears that there either has already (the mill) or will be imminently (the foundry) major changes to the heritage fabric of the building. In each case, we're going to have real trouble updating this section to determine what has actually changed from when the listing occurred in the absence of a re-evaluation from the Heritage Register, where if we cut the "description" section, the "history" sections could be easily updated and the "criteria" section could be left intact. The Drover's Wife (talk) 04:42, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
I don't think deleting stuff is the solution. Firstly (whatever our doubts) we have sourced material so it can stand. If someone has more info, then they can update it. If we delete it, then the whole issue is forgotten about because nobody will see the need to update something that they cannot see at all. I'd really expect we would find some kind of newspaper article about closures and reuse, but just at the moment I'm moving house so a bit time-challenged to look for it. Kerry (talk) 08:33, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
The Defiance Flour Mill seems to be still there (drove past it on the weekend). Not sure what if anything it is being used for. Just FYI, I'm not a Toowoomba local; I was just up there to do edit training on Thursday/Friday so we took some QHR photos as part of the process. To me, the technical college looked as it always has from the street, but I can't say about what may have happened to the stuff out the back. But since you require permission to demolish anything covered by a heritage listing, I would have thought the heritage listing would have been updated in that circumstance. But I don't think you have to seek permission to simply reuse the building in a different way, which would therefore not result in an update to the register. Kerry (talk) 08:40, 10 November 2014 (UTC)


BoNM - Australia.png The Australian Barnstar of National Merit
Awarded for your excellent work with the Queensland Heritage Register - well-deserved, say I. Wear it with pride. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 02:43, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

It's especially interesting for me, as a non-Australian, to read some of your QHR articles. Would that some US states would follow Queensland's lead and make their own historical information available in similar format... --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 02:43, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Ser Amantio di Nicolao, for your kind words and your helpful edits. If you are interested in getting your local governments to do something similar, then it's probably worth knowing it took me a few months of emails, then phone calls, then face-to-face meetings to get the Qld government to agree to do it (even though there is an official open data policy for the government). I sensed concerns that the data would be somehow misused, even though I was entirely up-front about what I intended to do with it (create Wikipedia articles). Then it took several months before they actually made the data available as a single giant XML file. It then took me a couple of months to write scripts to extract the content and convert it into a series of Wikipedia articles that you are now seeing me roll out. So, you probably need to do a bit of lobbying of your local state governments to get the ball rolling. Point out the economic benefit of tourism to small towns if their heritage was better promoted through Wikipedia, one of the world's top 10 websites, as I am sure many small USA towns are like our small towns, often struggling economically as people move to the larger cities and many are increasingly dependent on being attractive destinations to "grey nomads" (retired people travelling the country over a period of years in caravans and RVs who often tend to be interested in history and heritage). Kerry (talk) 03:03, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
Interesting - I hadn't considered it so much as a tourism idea. What I do believe, having watched the National Register of Historic Places WikiProject for some time now, is that local history articles are a very good way to get people involved in editing. Articles about larger cities may seem somewhat remote. Articles about smaller locations, or perhaps buildings within those towns, have a great deal of "hey, I know that place!" potential. And I think that if people see an article about a place that they know, it might foster some interest in their becoming editors. Especially judging by the local historical society brochures I see when I travel... --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 06:27, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Hi Kerry. I see Ser Amantio di Nicolao beat me to it with the barnstar. I have really enjoyed reading your recent articles on historic houses and other heritiage-listed buildings in Queensland. They are well presented and full of interesting details. I have added several of them to WikiProject Architecture (including "historic-houses" where appropriate) as I am sure many more of those who are interested in architecture would like to see them too. Well done and keep up the good work! --Ipigott (talk) 09:36, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Ipigott! At the moment, the score is 148 done, 1544 still to go ... 23:23, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

It's so good watching this project take shape - I've been checking your contribution history every day to see what new ones have gone up, and it's always interesting to read them as they come across. I haven't been able to do as much on the articles as I'd like because I did my back in and can't sit up for very long at the moment, but I really look forward to doing a bit when I can. The Drover's Wife (talk) 08:07, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated[edit]

Hi, I'm Zhantongz. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Newstead Air Raid Shelter, and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you. Zhantongz (talk) 05:40, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Re: strange messages[edit]

Hello. I am very sorry about those messages caused by my use of Page Curation. It appears that due to your autopatrolled status, when I accidentally marked the articles as un-reviewed, you were notified. Have a great day! :) --Zhantongz (talk) 06:12, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Coren Bot[edit]

I *think* I have gotten it to stop. We shall see. CrowCaw 21:03, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I will let you know if it continues. Just for my interest, did you go with a whitelist on the category or take another strategy? Kerry (talk) 22:03, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
  • I think I have whitelisted you as a user. The problem with whitelisting sources is that, since the register is CC its content gets mirrored all over the place, and those mirrors often do not include the license. Thus the bot just sees a match to some Internet content with no reliable way for it to confirm the license. We get the same problems with WP articles mirrored like that. Coren's been away for a while, but a permanent fix would be to check the categories of the created page as you suggest. For now, hopefully this workaround will keep your talk page quieter. CrowCaw 22:30, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Kerry (talk) 23:27, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
  • New Bot, new whitelist. Added you there now as well! CrowCaw 00:52, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Kerry (talk) 00:56, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

St Thomas Church of England[edit]

Hi Kerry. Another interesting article but I've made a couple of suggestions on the talk page. I think you'll agree there are also problems with Toowong Municipal Library.--Ipigott (talk) 10:31, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Kingston Suburb of Queensland[edit]

Thank you for putting back in the references to a industrial waste incident in the suburb undoing a suspected "white wash" As the original contributor I've also put back in the orignal text (although a little less tabloid). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cabcat (talkcontribs) 00:37, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Mowbray Park[edit]

Hi Kerry, this article seems a little confused - its title suggests the heritage listing is about the war memorial, the article suggests it's mainly about the park, and the official title in the sidebar seems to suggest that it's both. If there weren't already an article on the park I'd move it, but I think most of the current content should be at Mowbray Park, Brisbane with a section or breakout article on the memorial. The Drover's Wife (talk) 08:21, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I managed to overlook the park article until after I had uploaded the other. Unfortunately I am away from home and doing everything on my iPad over a dodgy 3G connection which is not an optimal editing experience and also means I am without a few key spreadsheets that help me avoid those problems. So I will have to merge the two articles but I will wait until I am back home with a better editing environment. This is actually the case where my local knowledge works to my disadvantage. To me, the place is all about the war memorial because it is where our Archie Raymond is commemorated. Kerry (talk) 18:41, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Maybe it's worth a split then? This is one of relatively few war memorials that's included within a larger listing rather than being listed entirely on its own, and we've got enough content for both. The Drover's Wife (talk) 23:29, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Yes, that might work.Kerry (talk) 23:31, 8 December 2014 (UTC)


Cute grey kitten.jpg Queensland Heritage and History Award
Thanks for making a grand contribution of the heritage and history of Queensland. No need to have kittens over the QHR rollout, as its progressing smoothly. Shiftchange (talk) 12:20, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Merry Christmas![edit]

Wishing all of those with my user page on their watchlist a very Merry Christmas! Kerry (talk) 18:32, 24 December 2014 (UTC)


Thanks a bunch for that. It's the one time I had to link to a disambiguation page because I wasn't sure what it was either! The Drover's Wife (talk) 08:53, 27 December 2014 (UTC)


Thanks for the tip, don't think I changed any others but will double check to make sure. Coomera81 (talk) 00:57, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Allison Engine Testing Stands[edit]

Hi Kerry, you wrote: "I have just created Allison Engine Testing Stands ‎ based on the Queensland Heritage Register entry, so please add anything more you might have on the subject. Kerry (talk) 21:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC)" Thanks for that. We do have some info, soon to be published as part of the new heritage museum at Eagle Farm Airport on site and on the web which will cover the convict farm, Female Factory, and WW2 including Allison Testing Stands. I'll wait till that's all in place to simplify referencing. Robertwhyteus (talk) 22:25, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Nudgee Cemetery[edit]

Hi Kerry,I was just looking at the Nudgee Cemetery website ( noticed that there is now a crematorium there and they call it "Nudgee Cemetery & Crematorium". I do think the article needs to be renamed and also have a redirect for "Nudgee Cemetery".

What do you think?

Hope you have a great 2015!!!

Rocketrod1960 (talk) 08:29, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Seems reasonable to me. There might as well be a redirect for Nudgee Crematorium as I guess sooner or later that will appear in some article. And a happy new year to you too! Kerry (talk) 08:31, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Welcome 2015![edit]

You have created the very first page of 2015, congrats! Lgcsmasamiya (talk) 00:03, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year Kerry Raymond![edit]

IdeaLab proposal[edit]

There is a proposal at the IdeaLab that may interest you. Lightbreather (talk) 20:12, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Oscar de Satge[edit]

Hi Kerry,I was about to put up an Infobox for Oscar but Googled his name first to try and find his burial details first and came up with a discrepancy in regards to his place of birth.

Both ADB and the Queensland Parliament give it as England with QP adding Norwich as well. However, I have found a couple of sites that say he was born in Switzerland.'S.pdf (page 21)

What is your opinion? ADB and QP should be the preferred references but it does leave me puzzled. Rocketrod1960 (talk) 03:35, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Yet again, you seem to have found another curly question. Biographers (like ADB and QP) are more interested in what you did in your life, whereas family historians really care about when/where birth/marriage/death occurred so I'd tend to trust family historians. Indeed, in the 1891 UK census, we find him living at Bridge Place House in Kent, where he describes himself as:

Oscar de Satge, male, age 54 years, retired Australian squatter and sheep farmer, born Switzerland Lausanne

If he really was born on 20 November 1836 (as his WP article says), he would indeed be 54 years old on 5 April 1891 (the date of the 1891 census) as he would not have had his birthday that year, so everything checks out. In the 1901 census, he is now 64 years old and this time he gives his birthplace as "Switzerland (British subject)". So, he seems pretty clear in his own mind that he was born in Switzerland. So I'd be going with Lausanne, Switzerland and "1891 UK Census" and "1901 UK Census" as sources.

BTW, not sure if I told you, I have now seen Bertram Steele's death certificate in his probate file in Queensland State Archives and it confirms burial in Lutwyche Cemetery (with witnesses in the usual way). So he was definitely buried at the time of his death and then exhumed at some subsequent time and then cremated a few years later for some mysterious reason, but I am still no closer to solving the riddle of "why". Kerry (talk) 04:28, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

And, check out this which gives even more detail. Elysee and d'Ouchy are both in Lausanne ("pres" just means "near"). And, for bonus points, what did he call his home in Folkestone where he died? He called it Elysee, the place he was born. It all ties together. Kerry (talk) 04:53, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

You know, I was kinda thinking he may have said he was born in Switzerland to impress people, however your usual excellent research seems to show that it is in fact correct. I often email ADB with corrections (providing good sources of course) and they do appreciate me letting them know as they strive to have their articles as accurate as possible. And seeing as I am forever using ADB as a reference it is the least I can do.

I have changed the article to suit and added the three references. Thanks for the help on this one and yes, my questions are fun, it's what makes editing WP so enjoyable!

Also, you did tell me about Bertram Steele ages ago. Maybe his family reinterred him elsewhere to be near other relatives..... Who knows. Rocketrod1960 (talk) 09:58, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

South East Queensland station formats[edit]

There is a discussion at Talk:Rail transport in Queensland you may or may not have an opinion on. Coomera81 (talk) 22:02, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Test Kaffeeklatsch area for women-only[edit]

Since WikiProject Women as proposed at the IdeaLab may take some time to realize, and based on a discussion on the proposal's talk page, I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch area for women only (cisgender or trans-woman, regardless of sexual orientation).

It is a place where women can go and be sure they'll be able to participate in discussions without being dominated by men's advice, criticism, and explanations. If interested, your participation would be most welcome. Lightbreather (talk) 23:13, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Former Members Register[edit]

Hi Kerry, I have been redirecting all the broken links to the Qld Government website for all the politicians I have been working on and guess what.

They have once again redirected all the links!!! Rocketrod1960 (talk) 05:00, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

This is bad. It's not that the URL has changed (that wouldn't be so bad as we could just run through with AutoWikiBrowser and fix them up) but what they have done is change the numbering system for the entries. As an example Bunny Adair used to be entry 135 but now he has number 2719334794. This is NOT good news as I cannot think (off the top of my head) of an easy way to fix that kind of change. Even if we were using a template (which is what I had been intending to set up for some time), we would not be protected from this change. Let's sit back and think about this. It's too mind-boggling tedious to fix each one up by hand, so we need to be smarter about this. Kerry (talk) 05:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
I notice that their Search Former Members box isn't working either. I wonder if we are seeing some kind of temporary transitional problem. Kerry (talk) 05:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
It might be worth writing to the office responsible about this. We had a problem a couple of months ago when the Victorian geographic naming authority redid their links in a way that stuffed a template on hundreds if not thousands of articles, and they actually wound up working with us to find a solution. Alternatively, if they keep stuffing up the links, it may be worth just directing them all to the base Re-member page: it's not ideal but it's only one click to the actual page. The Drover's Wife (talk) 06:59, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
I have already emailed them and the response was not encouraging. Pointed to the disclaimer on their website saying anything can change at any time. The "base page" solution is what is currently happening with the Queensland Place Names website as they have also recently developed their website so it is no longer possible to see any entry as a single web page; despite our requests, they've sympathised but done nothing to help fix the problem. Kerry (talk) 21:18, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
Update. I am now in contact with one of the members of their IT team, who appears friendly. Let's hope we can find a solution. Kerry (talk) 01:21, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]

Cucciolo gatto Bibo.jpg

Thank you for your warm welcome to Wikipedia Kerry. I am stumbling and bumbling my way around but am heartened by your kind words.

Alexdaw 22:43, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


Dear Kerry - yes I would be interested in your offer - thanks. A colleague and I did a half day at State Library about 3 years ago so I'm a tad rusty. Alexdaw 23:48, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Tramway Substations[edit]

Thanks Kerry Raymond, my area of research is substations. I will make the changes to the other entries, as my changes are mostly identifying all of the tramway substations, and their order of construction etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris from Mt Gravatt (talkcontribs) 21:47, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Bill D'Arcy[edit]

Hi Kerry, would you like to have a look at the article for Bill D'Arcy? I am sure the person who did all the edits in the last couple of days was well meaning but not too sure about the article's NPOV. Rocketrod1960 (talk) 10:45, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh god, what a mess. They basically all need to be torched and started again from scratch. The Drover's Wife (talk) 13:20, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
My quick assessment (sorry in the middle of meta: WikiConference Australia 2015 organising at the moment) is WP:UNDUE. The notability is being a politician not being a sex offender and the article balance should reflect that, so there's way too much on the sex offending. The current legal position is a conviction. That there may be a possible appeal of some sort (the source was a "living dead" link -- news site that no longer appeared to have the content -- so I cannot say exactly). The undue weight argument says that grounds for the possible appeal (or whatever) should not have more than the conviction. The grounds for the appeal mentions other living people; possible BLP issues, especially allegations that they lied etc. Most of the citations have no links -- difficult to check if what is said in the article is a fair claim against the source (which is not required, but we are in BLP here so I think there is a greater need for verifiability). The citation used multiple several times that has a live link appears to be some online forum (hardly a reliable source for BLP). The contributor claims not to have a POV and (if we take that claim in good faith) I think they have got so involved in the thrill of the chase of tracking down this information (and I understand that feeling!) that without intending to do so, they have gone beyond a reasonable "encyclopedic" coverage, particiularly wrt to undue weight. Kerry (talk) 21:54, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Bill D'Arcy[edit]

The article on Bill D'Arcy was well researched with sources quoted for every factual report. My research revealed that the history of Bill D'Arcy since his incarceration has been the rising movement to chronicle the mistakes made in the Criminal Trial - the contrary conclusions of the Civil Proceedings, the evidence which has remerged since the trials, and the increasing number of people who wish the process certified as a Miscarriage of Justice. This is the story of Bill D'Arcy. It is not a facile entry. It has notability in the light of how the criminal justice system works on Queensland and in the rest of Australia. It is a notable example of a case of a person convicted by means of "recovered memory". It is important element in the legal and political history of Australia and Queensland. I have the citations for everything - the Australian, The Courier Mail, The New York Times, Hansard, websites, a video interview of a fellow teacher etc. Documents to the CJC CMC and CCC are available form FOI Freedom of Information. Transcripts of court proceedings are available from the courts or on the internet. If you wish to check my sources in an encyclopaedic manner please do so. I respectfully request that you restore my contribution and do whatever research you want to provide an alternative to any factual account I make. The entry I made is factual. It is not a "mess". Please respect. Gladiator-Citizen (talk) 00:24, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

QLDMLA needs infobox[edit]

Sam Piantadosi and John Vaughan? Hopefully someone in South Australia and Western Australia will have the same urge as I did.  :)

Other than those two, my mission is accomplished. I am going to next look at each electoral district and check for accuracy. Rocketrod1960 (talk) 12:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

I wonder what they were doing in Category:Members of the Queensland Legislative Assembly? Oh well, they will soon be gone ... Kerry (talk) 22:01, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
This is bemusing, but I wrote the Piantadosi article and the current version of the Vaughan article, so either I was copying categories from a Queensland pollie or I had a couple of very absent-minded moments. The Drover's Wife (talk) 23:14, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
If you were using HotCat (as I do), sometimes a slip of the finger creates some interesting mis-categorisations. I've done a few of those myself! Speaking of which, RocketRod, I notice you don't seem to be using HotCat (it mentions itself in the edit summary so you generally know if someone is using it). If you want to give it a go, enable it at Preferences > Gadget > Editing. You can also enable it on Commons (where it is more sophisticated and even more useful). Kerry (talk) 23:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

I've seen HotCat used by many people but never knew how to access it! I am going to give it a go tonight and see how it works. Rocketrod1960 (talk) 01:31, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Albert Callan[edit]

Slow, slow, slow day at work so adding a couple more former members. :)

You are rocketing through the MLCs! Kerry (talk) 03:06, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but I really do wish that Ted Theodore didn't go bezerk and appoint all those labor guys to vote on abolishing the Council right near the end! Rocketrod1960 (talk) 03:47, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

BTW, if you want a hand on Theodore's Suicide Squad, feel free to point of them my way - they're a bunch of people I'm quite interested in and happy to do a thorough job on my own. The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:22, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
There's plenty still to do on the MLAs, I don't think you will find yourself with nothing to do any time soon! :-) Kerry (talk) 04:30, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I have noticed you busily redlinking all those MLA'S.  :) Rocketrod1960 (talk) 04:46, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Politician categories[edit]

Hi Kerry! As someone who knows much less about early Queensland politics than you do, I'd really appreciate your input here on their categorisation in the party system. Frickeg (talk) 07:32, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm someone who is a lot more interested in the MPs as people rather than the political parties they belong to, which is why I stayed out of the initial discussion which seemed to be driven more by the modern political parties than the historic situation. But I have added my 10c (which is to limit the categorisation to where there definitely is a political party and side-step the vague affiliations). Kerry (talk) 23:29, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your input. Would you say there is a defined point at which the party system really emerged in Queensland? (By this I mean the non-Labor forces organised into actual definable parties.) Looking at the member lists it seems to be 1901-ish? Frickeg (talk) 00:12, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Based on this (pages 2-3 of PDF, I would say the 1908 Liberal Party and the 1912 Queensland Farmers Union are the first non-Labour parties and appear to be genuine fore-runners of the present Liberal and National parties. Everything before that seems more of a loose conservative alliance than a party IMHO. Kerry (talk)

Thank you for contributing to Let's Talk Diversity Campaign![edit]

Learning and Evaluation Barnstar.svg The Learning & Evaluation Barnstar
Hi Kerry Raymond, we are happy to award you a Learning and Evaluation barnstar, for your efforts in contributing to the ongoing conversation on Let's Talk Diversity!

We hope to see you around, sharing what you know on the Learning Pattern Library. I'll get in touch soon with some ideas as to where you can contribute. Cheers, María (talk) 21:21, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Members of the Queensland Legislative Assembly[edit]

That would be a great idea - thank you! I hadn't thought of that - I don't know much about those automated processes. The Drover's Wife (talk) 09:46, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

I'll have to do it in two phases. First adding the category, then removing the category. I can't do both in one pass. Watch this space ... Kerry (talk) 09:57, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! Will save a good bit of work if it works. The Drover's Wife (talk) 10:45, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Done. I think it worked. The thing you have to be careful with is removing the "politician" category when the pollie is a member of multiple parliaments, as you can't remove it until the new category has been added for all parliaments. I noticed this on Yvette D'Ath where the politician category had been removed when added to the new Parliament of Australia category, without regard to her service in the Qld parliament. Now I just happened to catch that one "by eye" but I suspect there are others. Also spotted "by eye" Ted Theodore in the same situation, so there may be others that had been removed too soon from the politician category. Are there any more that need doing? I think I have the process more-or-less down pat (the only tricky ones being the multiple parliament people). Kerry (talk) 11:53, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
There are equivalent categories for every party for every state and territory that need populating, and only the NT and ACT have been done so far. If you'd be willing to have a crack at any other others, that'd be amazing, but I know you have a ton of projects, so no pressure. The multiple parliament one is a tricky situation, and good catch with that - I'll have a run through and grab any that stand out (my memory of these things at least is pretty good). The Drover's Wife (talk) 12:34, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm the girl who can't say No :-) I'll see what I can do tomorrow. Kerry (talk) 12:42, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Wow. Thank you so much for doing these. I'd been putting off doing them manually because the federal ones took so long. You're the best. (The multiple parliaments thing is my fault, btw; I had been intending to go through them all by hand and so had removed the "politicians" category when doing the federal ones intending to come back around once the Qld/other states were created. I will certainly help trying to catch the ones that might have been missed.) Frickeg (talk) 22:16, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
I have just about finished adding the new categories for the ALP. I will then start removing the old "ALP politicians" category when I am sure it is OK to do it. What this means is that anyone "complicated" (multiple parties, multiple parliaments, or mayor/councillor) will get left in the ALP politicians category for others to review manually (which probably involves reading the article) to work out what categories should/shouldn't be in use. Kerry (talk) 22:20, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
OK, I have finished what I can easily do by semi-automated means. Although I have changed the categories on several hundred ALP pollies, there are still 203 articles left in Category:Australian Labor Party politicians because they were "complicated" and need someone else to take a look at their categorisation. I might have another go with one of the other parties (not today, I am sick of pollies for the moment); let me know if you have a preference. Kerry (talk) 01:44, 31 March 2015 (UTC) 
Great job! The Libs and Nats should be mostly done, so what remains is (a) the minor parties, (b) the independents, and, most dauntingly, (c) the historical parties. I will try and get some categories going for some of these soon. Frickeg (talk) 02:03, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
That's brilliant. Thank you so much, Kerry - and that was a great solution re: the multiple parliament issue. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:16, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


My watchlist has been alight from your good work. You could save yourself a lot of extra work by simply opening the article and changing the text of the categories inside the article, rather than double category changing from outside of the article. satusuro 01:01, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, but it's a bit more complicated than that. See the conversation immediately above for a bit of a discussion of the problem. I have to add the new category first and then later come back and see if it is safe to remove the old category. I'm not manually opening them in any case, AWB is doing it for me - I'm just manually hitting Skip/Save depending on what I think needs to happen to deal with the easy cases (one party, one parliament). Kerry (talk) 01:06, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


Ooh, that's a hard one. How about Dunwich Privy Pit and Convict Archeological Site? It'd be good to capture both aspects of it, but I don't think Dunwich Convict Site is specific enough considering that there's also the convict causeway. It's a little bit of a mouthful, but not as much as the official title (!) and it works to disambiguate from the causeway because that isn't (at least as far as the QHR is concerned) an archaeological site.

The causeway is one article that could really do with a picture, too. I read the article a couple of times and I still have no idea what it actually is apart from a thing that is now part of the docking facilities there. The Drover's Wife (talk) 07:45, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

My reading of it is that the causeway is the finger of dirt that points out to the sea from which the jetty projects, as seen in the foreground of [5]. It looks like they have more recently expanded that area (looks like a land reclamation). I wonder what where is actually left to see and I'm finding it hard to get very excited about it, but maybe you have to see it to fully appreciate its charms. Ditto the privy pits :-) Re the name. I don't like "and" titles very much. I could do it as Dunwich Privy Pits (there's a certain amusement value in that name) and make Dunwich Convict Site a redirect or vice versa. The article will list all the other names in the lede para as usual in any case. Kerry (talk) 12:03, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
That makes more sense. I was quite confused! Dunwich Privy Pits works just as well. I can't think of any alternatives besides what you suggested. The Drover's Wife (talk) 13:41, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Arthur Hawthorn[edit]

Your thank you was very quick, I had only saved it about two minutes ago!

I recently turned on notifications for new links created to articles on my watchlist, so your politician articles invariably link to something on my watchlist (e.g. the electorate) and that alerts me to it. It's unfortunate that there is no way to watch a category (so I get notified if there is a new article in a category of interest to me) so this notify-on-link is the next best thing. It's in "Preferences > Notification > Page link" if you are interested in using it yourself. For me, it's been the best way to be aware of new articles in areas of interest to me. Kerry (talk) 00:49, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Gerald Page-Hanify[edit]

Hi Kerry, good work on finding the photo! I have had loads of trouble finding photos of the Council members who were appointed from 1917 onwards. Rocketrod1960 (talk) 01:31, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I look in the obituaries in the newspapers when I'm desperate for photos. Often there is a photo, although they can be pretty dark and grainy. But I had no joy with Perel at all. Can't be many MLCs left to go now! Keep up the fantastic work!Kerry (talk) 01:47, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
I do the same, look up the papers the day after the person died for photos and information, but didn't think to look up the deal old Tele! And yes, just 5 more members to go! Then it is on to the Legislative Assembly....... Rocketrod1960 (talk) 02:01, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
The Tele is just rolling out in Trove at the moment so you find more of it all athe time, but it's often pretty much the same article and photo as in the Courier-Mail. But with two of them, you can pick the "least worst" of the photos. Kerry (talk) 02:04, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Oh, and when I do start on the Assembly, the first person I will do an article for is Albert Edward Victor Whitford, who was only in parliament for two years but was shot dead in the city, apparently over a lady he was playing up with. He was of course a Labor member. :) Much more interesting than most of the Council members who owned loads of pastoral land but never did anything controversial as such. Rocketrod1960 (talk) 02:51, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Indeed! Looks like there is a lot of source material to work with e.g [6] Kerry (talk) 03:19, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

One to go.......... Rocketrod1960 (talk) 00:08, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

I am chilling the champagne and preparing the fireworks extravaganza! Kerry (talk) 05:44, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Ta daaaa!! All finished, finally. Now for the Assembly......

Sisters of St. Joseph of the Sacred Heart[edit]

Face-smile.svg You're welcome!

Norman Hotel[edit]

Hi Kerry, congrats on the good work done on this article. I enjoyed a fair few steaks there before heading off to see the footy at The Gabba. Maybe not quite as nice as the steaks at the Breaky Creek, but still very nice! Rocketrod1960 (talk) 04:21, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind words. Funnily enough, I have a bit of history with the Breakfast Creek Hotel. I built it in Lego several years ago. Kerry (talk) 05:06, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Lego? That would have taken ages! I used to go there alot for the meals. It certainly has a colorful history, starting way back with William McNaughton Galloway's death there. Rocketrod1960 (talk) 07:17, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you![edit]

Cup-o-coffee-simple.svg Well,this is a thanks for a thanks. Ddrap14 (talk) 03:34, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints[edit]

Recently created Residence, 50 Guy Street, Warwick and Interwiki linked Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I wanted to let you know I have change that Interwiki link. I just thought I would share why, so that in the future you could avoid some of the very common mistake I see all the time, when it comes the name of the LDS Church.

Per MOS:LDS, WP:NCLDS, WP:The and Talk:The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the name of the LDS Church in Utah, for all articles after the 1844 "Succession Crisis", is spelled and Interwiki link as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". Please notice that the word "The" is included and capitalized, the letter "D" in "day" is not capitalized and the inclusion of the "-". The "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" should only be used when referring to events/People/places when the relevant time frame is between 1838 and 1844.--- ARTEST4ECHO(Talk) 16:31, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you![edit]

Meissen-teacup pinkrose01.jpg Keep adding that Australian heritage content - it's fantastic Flat Out talk to me 03:50, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

WMAU Symposium on MassMessage Usage[edit]

Wikimedia Australia.svg

You are invited, to a conference at the University of Eucla, to discuss how MassMessage might be more effectively used to organise events in Australia. Please indicate your acceptance of this offer via the usual method (carrier pidgeon). MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:17, 23 May 2015 (UTC).

A kitten for you![edit]

Kitten (06) by Ron.jpg

Thank you for thanking me for my edit at Meta:WikiConference Australia 2015. :) I hope to get to meet you one day. From the looks of your user page, you seem like a mighty wiki woman. :)

Anna Koval (WMF) (talk) 21:44, 3 June 2015 (UTC)


Lovely to see you picking up the QHR transfers again - I always enjoy reading them as they come across! The Drover's Wife (talk) 09:26, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

I've been away on the Darling Downs taking photos so creating new QHR articles had to take a back seat. But it means we will have better photo coverage of the QHR sites on the Darling Downs as well as a lot of general photos of that region. I'm getting close to the end of the City of Ipswich QHR sites. I think the next LGA for QHR articles will be Moreton Bay Region. I am prioritising SE Qld since that is the area where I can probably take photos as needed. Beyond that, we will just have to depend on the random chance of finding something in Commons. In terms of the project overall, there are about 1700 QHR sites. On Wikipedia, there are now about 685 articles that were created or expanded using the CC-BY QHR material, plus a further 236 articles that already existed and have not yet been expanded (where it may or may not make sense to incorporate QHR material depending on their existing level of development). So in terms of QHR coverage on Wikipedia, we are at about halfway. In terms of incorporating as much QHR material as possible we are over about a third of the journey. Kerry (talk) 21:55, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
And of course the QHR material provides content for a number of biographies and material for sections on local history of various towns, suburbs and localities, so there is a lot more to be squeezed out of it. I've done a few bios along the way but there's a lot more potential. That's the trouble with editing Wikipedia, one thing tends to lead to another, and starting the day with a plan to sort out one article finds me working on something about 3 hops away from where I started. :-) Kerry (talk) 21:59, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

10th anniversary[edit]


Today is my 10th anniversary on Wikipedia! Kerry (talk) 06:49, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


Hi, I have done literally thousands of trove cites in the last 4 to 5 years, your editing suggests a problem.

Please show me something somewhere that explains the issue, please. JarrahTree 00:59, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Also when creating stubs, could you be so kind to at least put the australian project tag on the talk page, it really helps...

Also the change in Trove citing is a major issue and really should be explained at the national noticeboard (if I havent missed it)JarrahTree 01:05, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

The Trove URL that appear in the address bar of the browser is not guaranteed persistent (although they do seem to continue to work in practice); these are the ones with "ndp/del" in them. If you are using a Trove URL generated by their "Cite" button, then that is guaranteed persistent and all is OK. Not sure where they formally document all of this, but it comes up from time to time in discussion, e.g. [7]. None of this is new; as far as I know, this is how it has always been, but I agree the NLA don't do enough to point it out. Nothing is actually broken at this time, but I was being pro-active to prevent those URLs breaking in the future. Kerry (talk) 01:32, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Article Title[edit]

Hi, thanks for your message. The_High_School,_Dublin is an important example. Unless the name becomes ambiguous without "The", it is not required in the article title. Handsdown.1 (talk) 06:22, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

In Wikipedia:Naming conventions (definite or indefinite article at beginning of name), it specifically says "if the definite or indefinite article would be capitalized in running text, then include it at the beginning of the page name" and "These conditions are sometimes met if the page name is ... the official or commonly used name or nickname". I agree that there may be many situations where "The" is not needed at the start of an article title and that there is the general principle that the common name (likely to be used as search terms) trumps the official name, but in the case of The Southport School, the "The" is used both officially and in common usage and is normally written capitalised in running text. I note I have no conflict of interest in relation to this school, merely a lifetime of hearing this school being referred to as "The Southport School" in common usage, probably because in the same suburb there is also the Southport State School and the Southport High School. Kerry (talk) 07:15, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Date format changes[edit]

Hi Kerry, I've noticed your date format changes at articles like Charleville, Queensland. Are you aware of this date-formatting script? Graham87 03:09, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

No, I didn't know about it. I am using an AWB script that I wrote. I will take a look at the one you've pointed out and see if it meets my needs better. Thanks Kerry (talk) 03:48, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Brisbane Meetup[edit]

Hi there! I'm dropping you this notice as you've indicated at Wikipedia:Meetup/Brisbane that you are interested in attending a Wiki meetup in Brisbane. Assuming significant interest, I'm organising an event for August 22 at the SLQ Café in South Brisbane, and we'd love for you to come along. A list of people interested in coming, and a discussion space has been created at Wikipedia:Meetup/Brisbane/8. Hope to see you there! Lankiveil (speak to me) 11:56, 4 August 2015 (UTC).

Brisbane Meetup[edit]

Hi there! I'm dropping you this notice as you've indicated on your userpage that you're a Wikipedian in the Brisbane area. Assuming significant interest, I'm organising an event for August 22 at the SLQ Café in South Brisbane, and we'd love for you to come along. A list of people interested in coming, and a discussion space has been created at Wikipedia:Meetup/Brisbane/8. Hope to see you there! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:39, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

This message has been automatically sent to all users in Category:Wikipedians in Brisbane. If you do not wish to receive further messages like this, please either remove your user page from this category, or add yourself to Category:Opted-out of message delivery


I loved your "skin" comment at WP:VEF today. Thanks for sharing it.  :-)   Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:35, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Skin matters where I live. [8] So Slip-Slop-Slap! Kerry (talk) 21:58, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

updating trove links, heritage too ?[edit]

as you used the AWB on Gundagai for the multiple find/replace of links ... could the same be done for heritage nsw links that are now environment gov links like in,_New_South_Wales#1900s - the first one (10), i left the dead link in for reference. Dave Rave (talk) 23:43, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

@Dave Rave: Just to confirm that I understand what you want. You want to replace all links of the form

replaced with

I think that's do-able. A quick check shows there's only 58 of them. However, I think a better strategy though is to convert them all to a template parameterised by the name of the heritage site and the DDDDDDD registration number e.g

{{cite NSWHR|5012023|Goulburn Viaduct|accessdate=12 August 2015}}

This is how we do the Qld Heritage Register citations, which have the same problem of frequent changes to the URLs every year or so (most recently last month). With a template you only need to fix the URL in the template definition and not in every individual citation, which saves a lot of work! It is more work to replace the individual citations with templates, but it pays off in the long run. Your thoughts? Kerry (talk) 00:04, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Actually I think the problem is bigger than the 58. There are over 250 articlesto the NSW heritage site more generally (but not that specific URL), most of which are probably going to be references to entries in the heritage register glancing at the article titles. So I am guessing that there might be a few different old URLs out there. All the more reason to go the template route, I think. Kerry (talk) 00:11, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Visual Editor[edit]

Hi! Thanks for dropping me a note!

Yes, the Visual Editor made it sooooo much easier for me to edit. I discovered that I love editing Wikipedia... it makes me feel useful. LOL. Thanks for your kind words. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 23:48, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the mention on the other page. :) I guess I could also add that building an article from scratch is a lot easier too. I also like the article wizard. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 03:33, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for that! I am sure the folks who are building those tools appreciate hearing it. I suspect they get to hear the criticisms more than the praise. Kerry (talk) 04:27, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Next Brisbane Meetup[edit]

It was lovely to catch up with you today. As discussed, I've created a discussion page for our next meetup at Wikipedia:Meetup/Brisbane/9. Ideas and discussion are of course very welcome. Lankiveil (speak to me) 10:18, 22 August 2015 (UTC).

Why people don't edit[edit]

Ha Kerry Raymond, you are really good! "My prediction is that a survey of “why don’t you edit” would probably produce the following responses in this roughly this order:

1. Never even thought about it
2. Don’t have the time
3. Don’t have any knowledge to share
4. I’m not enough of an expert
5. I don’t know how to contribute
6. I don’t see the benefit to me from contributing"
B5. Why don't you edit Wikipedia? (Base: 3461) Readers Survey 2011: Reasons for not editing
"What stopped you from editing Wikipedia?" Philippines Wikipedia Reader Survey January 2012 (see also [1])

See more stats at de:user:Atlasowa/editor_motivation. --Atlasowa (talk) 21:44, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

+ UNU-MERIT 2009: [9] Table 8: Reasons of non-contributors for not contributing to Wikipedia. --Atlasowa (talk) 21:52, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
Nice to see I haven't lost my touch since retiring (I worked in research and research management). Kerry (talk) 22:00, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
Although I would have been better if I had found the readers' survey in the first place! So much for my lit review. Kerry (talk) 22:02, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Reg Inglis[edit]

Well, my "interest" in the article at this point is limited to the fact that it was filed in inappropriately overgeneral categories that needed to be refined. I happened to be cleaning that category up a few minutes ago, and came at the band's article from that end of the equation — but I have no other interest in or knowledge about the band. But looking at the original article about the bloodstock agent, which was apparently created a grand total of seven minutes before being overwritten with the band, I'm not seeing that it made any particularly strong claim of encyclopedic notability — it just asserted his existence, and parked it on a single source that wasn't necessarily sufficient to satisfy WP:GNG.

Disambiguating them would probably be the right approach, if more substantive sourcing can be located to support a stronger article about the Australian horsebreeding figure — but the original version didn't really demonstrate that he merits a Wikipedia article at all, so I wouldn't disambiguate them just to restore that version without any improvement to bolster his notability. Bearcat (talk) 21:21, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, the more I look at the band article the more it looks like just a weird WP:HOAXy rewrite of The Orb — and I'm not finding any evidence on the web of real sourcing to support that they ever really existed at all. I'm going to restore the horseracer and lock down the article for the time being, but I am still going to have to tag the horseracer for notability and sourcing improvement. Bearcat (talk) 21:30, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. No problem about tagging the horseracing one. This is being developed by a new user who is struggling with how to create citations (see their User Talk page where I am trying to show them how to use the cite templates). The Inglis family is well known in Australia for being in the bloodstock business over a number of generations (plenty of source material exists - just needs adding). Kerry (talk) 21:38, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
I accidentally locked it at "administrator only" at first, which would have interfered with the editor's ability to improve the article — but I've dropped it back down to "autoconfirmed status" now (which the horseracing editor already has, while the band guy shouldn't yet.) Once one or two more sources have been added, the notability and referencing tags can come back off, so don't worry too much about those. If the band guy causes any further problems, let me know and I'll figure out what the next step should be. Thanks for letting me know. Bearcat (talk) 21:51, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

I've restored the article without Harkkomanita's edits, and I've posted to Velella's talk page to explain that you weren't the sock/vandal. The redirect from the disambiguated "dance act" title was probably just an accidental oversight, though — if an article gets deleted (speedy or otherwise), then any redirects to it are supposed to get deleted at the same time, rather than needing to be nominated or handled as a separate issue. The deleter most likely just missed them, rather than anybody deliberately leaving them in place for any specific reason — so I've dealt with those already as well. Bearcat (talk) 14:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Kerry - Thanks ever so much for protecting my page. I had no idea what was happening and would have had it deleted without you. I've added some more links to media to show why Reg Inglis is notable despite being a lowly (and retired) auctioneer. It has to do with the connections that his job gives him, and which results in his significant appointments. I picked up on his story with the death of Bart Cummins (no argument that he's significant) where the rumours were finally confirmed that Reg had saved Bart's business by not pursuing a legitimate debt that William Inglis and Son were owed. I hope that I've done enough. Rod mcinnes (talk) 21:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rod mcinnes (talkcontribs) 20:52, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Rod! But the credit for unscrambling the omelette must go to User:Bearcat. Unfortunately the actions of User:Harkkomanita (now unmasked as a sockpuppet) in overwriting the Reg Inglis article with what appears to be some kind of hoax article about a dance act caused people to think the Reg Inglis article was suspect (unaware it had been hijacked). This is the first time I've seen an article hijacked in this way so it's not a regular occurrence in Wikipedia. But do please keep up the good work on contributing to the Reg Inglis article. Just a suggestion, but do you think it might be better to build the article around the Inglis family/business as a whole? (Note it is possible to redirect the names of the individual members of the family onto the business article so anyone searching for the individuals would still find the information on them - I can help set up the redirections if needed). That way you could cover the story of the business and the individual family members involved; I think one large article would be better than several small articles on the individual family members. There's plenty of material about the family in Trove] and the Australian Dictionary of Biography. Kerry (talk) 23:51, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks to both of you as well. I've taken the notability and sourcing tags back off the article now, since I'm satisfied that an adequate level of sourcing has been provided (and just so you know, Harkkomanita's sockmaster is actually a notorious problem editor who's apparently been doing things like this since at least 2013, but keeps at it no matter how many times his puppets get blocked — though this was actually only my second time directly encountering him myself, which is why I didn't twig to it right away.) Glad it's gotten sorted out, at any rate, and of course I'll still be around to help if anything flares up again.
Since I don't know how either of you identify yourselves politically, I won't presume to know whether I should congratulate or console you on your new Prime Minister — but that was certainly interesting news to wake up to this morning (and yes, it really did make the news up here.) Bearcat (talk) 00:12, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
Our fourth prime minister in three years! But not as surprising as it might seem. Because we have compulsory voting, no Australian political party can afford to be too far from the political centre, and this leadership change repositions the Liberal party to be closer to the centre in the leadup to the next federal election. The public opinion polls have shown Turnbull preferred to Abbott for some time now, so there was an inevitability about the change. Kerry (talk) 01:42, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Re Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_New_South_Wales_railway_station_codes_(2nd_nomination)[edit]

Kerry, an official current (February 2015) list of codes is here. Hydronium Hydroxide (talk) 07:01, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

James Morgan (Queensland politician)[edit]

I notice that you created this stub for training purposes. Are you still using it or can I expand it? Derek Andrews (talk) 17:12, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Please expand it as much as you like! I created more stubs than I had trainees that day. Kerry (talk) 21:40, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Will do. May I ask what sort of training you do? I was thinking of trying to organize something here in my local library and have been wondering if there are any resources / ideas / training plans that I could tap into. Derek Andrews (talk) 21:55, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Mostly I have done training using the source editor, typically half day to full day workshop, which covers the basic mechanics of entering text, formatting text, adding links and citations. Sometimes I cover uploading photos (own work and Public Domain Australia) to Commons. Usually to groups ranging from about 5-15 people, usually organised through libraries which have some kind of "computer room" or "training room" facility. Generally as part of it, I identify a set of articles that might be of interest to the group (generally the groups have some common element - live in a certain town, work for a certain employer, etc) that they can expand as exercises. Because the exercise has to be easily achievable, I tend to pick articles (or create them) that are underdeveloped and for which I can point to a few well-known sources that provide easy factoids for new contributors to add. To take James Morgan as an example, the Members of the Queensland Legislative Assembly all have some basic documentation in the Queensland Parliament's Former Members Register, e.g. for James Morgan. My most recent training class was using the new Visual Editor. As it was only 2 people, I did it by demonstration rather than with a Powerpoint presentation. I would say that new contributors probably should be taught Visual Editor as it is much easier for them to learn (the downside is that Visual Editor cannot be used on Talk pages). Happy to share any of my Powerpoints with you but it's easier to do it by email so can you contact me by "Email this user" (left side bar). Any particular reason for your interest in James Morgan? Kerry (talk) 23:15, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your reply. I gave up on Visual Editor, it just doesn't seem to work very well on my older computer / slow internet connection, but I will give it another try maybe next time I am at the library. I would probably be doing this as an ongoing series of workshops that I can spread out for as long as it takes, but it is a good idea to have some pages identified for people to work on. I came across James Morgan in Special:DeadendPages, somewhere I lurk when I'm looking for something new to work on, or something that can be easily tidied up / deleted / passed on to a wikiproject over coffee. I think I have come across a few other Australian politicians in the recent past, so I would guess that they were yours too, but I haven't in the past always checked the page history. I'm quite happy to leave them alone if you think that they might be useful to you in the future. Derek Andrews (talk) 10:43, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
Happy for anyone to work on them. There's always plenty more unwritten ones! Kerry (talk) 12:15, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Citations from NLA Trove[edit]

Hello Kerry! You have visited a number of articles initiated by me, and done some useful housekeeping by converting citations based on NLA Trove to a persistent URL. For example - see this diff. I'm not fully aware of the significance of these changes, nor am I capable of using WP:AWB. The following articles were also initiated by me, contain many citations of NLA Trove, but have not been up-dated with the persistent URL:


I would be grateful if you would visit these three articles and work your magic. Many thanks. Dolphin (t) 10:50, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Done. You're welcome! Let me know if you have others you would like fixed. Kerry (talk) 03:55, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your work on the above three articles; and thanks for your advice. Dolphin (t) 12:16, 23 October 2015 (UTC)


It must've been wild in the Foreign Office with Carr in charge! But yes, I'll certainly be having a bit of a period of decreased activity - once the MLC bios are done, that is. :) Frickeg (talk) 05:30, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 04 November 2015[edit]

A barnstar for you![edit]

Writers Barnstar Hires.png The Writer's Barnstar
Dear Kerry Raymond, thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia, especially your recent creation of Maryborough Government Office Building. Keep up the good work! You are making a difference here! With regards, AnupamTalk 04:35, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 11[edit]

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The Signpost: 11 November 2015[edit]

Wheat Creek Culvert[edit]

You're probably right - it's just that when I see "destroyed", I like to go looking for what happened to it (couldn't turn up a thing on that clock?), and was a bit surprised to find the bit about the moved so tried to explain it. The source didn't reference that most of it would be demolished, but looking at the picture more closely you're probably right that it has been and the rest of it is just imaging. The Drover's Wife (talk) 06:56, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks on both counts! I figure we've got the answer for the culvert, but I'm really curious about that clock: it's rare to have a heritage site that I can't find anything about its current fate and I hope you can dig up an answer! At some point we probably should go back and look at those Toowoomba articles from the start too, because I've noticed a number of the big developments on those sites (e.g. the foundry) seem to be picking up pace. The Drover's Wife (talk) 03:56, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
You are, as ever, an absolute champion. This project has been such a delight to watch take shape, and I really appreciate that you've been willing to help chase down answers to some of these questions. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:01, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Brisbane meetup this Saturday[edit]

This is just a friendly reminder of the Brisbane meetup that is occurring this Saturday at the Queensland Art Gallery café, which you have expressed an interest in attending. Please check the meetup page as some of the details may have changed since you last looked. I look forward to seeing you there! Lankiveil (speak to me) 11:28, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi Kerry, It's nice to meet you today. Please email me about your contact, and I can provide you with the photos today.

Regards, User: goodtiming8871 04:08, 21 November 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Goodtiming8871 (talkcontribs)

The Signpost: 18 November 2015[edit]

Ipswich possible link spam[edit]

Hi Kerry. Could I please have a second opinion on this edit, since I removed that link along with several others yesterday? Thanks. --Scott Davis Talk 10:16, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

@ScottDavis: @The Drover's Wife:
College's Crossing Jan 2012.JPG
I think you made the right call on this one. I had a look at the website in question. I don't think there is any reason to include an external link to the website as a whole as I cannot see the that coincidence of places having the same name as being of sufficient relevance to meet criteria 3 of "What can normally be linked" in WP:EL, but I did wonder if the specific webpage that dealt with Ipswich, Queensland might be reasonably included as an external link under criteria 3. However, looking at the content of the page, it seems to contain (in part) text and images taken from Wikipedia without attribution. As a concrete example, one of the photos of College's Crossing on the Ipswich, Queensland page of that website is uploaded as own work on Wikimedia Commons by User:Kgbo (personally known to me) under CC-BY-SA yet appears without attribution on this webpage. Some of the text about the bora rings appears to be copied from Bora (Australian) and so on. This disqualifies the site from being externally linked from Wikipedia as "material that violates the copyrights of others per contributors' rights and obligations should not be linked" (WP:EL). Kerry (talk) 21:55, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
I saw this request last night and thought I'd take a look, felt it was obvious enough to revert without further commentary, for what it's worth (which is why I didn't bother chipping in). Though Kerry's rationale makes that even clearer. The Drover's Wife (talk) 22:48, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks both. I deleted it the first time, along with several others. Since just one came back, I wanted a second opinion just to make sure I wasn't the one being the prat. I didn't do Kerry's full analysis, just felt it didn't feel helpful as a set of places with the same name. --Scott Davis Talk 23:32, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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The Signpost: 25 November 2015[edit]

The Signpost: 02 December 2015[edit]


Hi Kerry, I have replied to your question on my talk page. Summerdrought (talk) 06:50, 10 December 2015 (UTC)


LOL! Very good! --Canley (talk) 01:27, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 09 December 2015[edit]

Speedy deletion nomination of Rockhampton School of Arts[edit]

Hello Kerry Raymond,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Rockhampton School of Arts for deletion, because it seems to be copied from another source.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to rewrite it in your own words, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Dat GuyWiki (talk) 09:06, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Not a copyright violation, derived from CC-BY source as clearly stated in edit summary and in Rockhampton School of Arts#Attribution. Kerry (talk) 09:13, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 16 December 2015[edit]

Thank you for taking part in the Community Health learning campaign![edit]

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Thank you!

apologies for writing in English, if this is not your first language.
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You might also be interested in taking part in the 2015 Harassment consultation. This is the first of several planned consultations on this topic, intended to provide a place to discuss ideas, concerns, proposals and possible solutions regarding Wikimedia communities’ harassment-related challenges.

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Solstice & Season's greetings[edit]

Clifton Mill Christmas 2005.JPG Merry Christmas and happy New Year
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A better encyclopedia.
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Merry Christmas and happy new year[edit]

Merry Christmas and happy new year. (:


Brisbane Meetup in January 2016[edit]

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Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all my page watchers![edit]

Well, a slightly belated Merry Christmas but a well-in-advance Happy New Year to you all! Kerry (talk) 02:05, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Rockhampton Hospital[edit]

Considering that we have the pre-existing Rockhampton Base Hospital, what would you think about moving Rockhampton Hospital to Medical Superintendent's Cottage and Therapies Block, Rockhampton Base Hospital (or something of that nature)? Having both articles notionally about the entire hospital seems a bit messy and confusing, and trying to merge them or mesh the QHR content into something on the modern hospital could be a bit of a challenge. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:35, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I just discovered the Rockhampton Base Hospital and am doing a bit of tidy-up there in preparation to see what I might do to merge them. Kerry (talk) 02:38, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
OK, I have had a look and I think (like some other articles), it's better to have two articles: one to deal with information about the current hospital Rockhampton Base Hospital and one to deal with its history and heritage History of Rockhampton Base Hospital (which is the one derived from the QHR) and Rockhampton Hospital now redirects to Rockhampton Base Hospital, but appropriate cross-linking between them. What do you think? Kerry (talk) 03:26, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
Looks good! Nice work. The Drover's Wife (talk) 03:41, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 December 2015[edit]

Thank you![edit]

Hi Kerry - thanks for your assistance and all the 'thank you' notes you send me. I should really be thanking you - just about everywhere I go on the (history) internet I see your excellent work and contributions - thank goodness for people like you who are working so diligently to record our history and in an eminently readable style. I'd give you some sort of Wiki star, but I'm a bit of a Wikipedia gumby and don't know how to do that! ;) Regards Peter Peter Eedy (talk) 01:17, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Old St Stephen's Church[edit]

Hi again Kerry - I was reading the Old St Stephen's article and remembering that some people dispute that Pugin designed it - I then found this research paper from the 'Pugin Foundation', which appears to confirm his authorship of the design: The chapel is of interest to me - as a young architecture student, I prepared (long lost) measured drawings of it in the early 1970s. Amongst other things, I recall the badly weathered hardwood shingles 'peeping out' from under the then corrugated iron roof. Regards Peter Peter Eedy (talk) 01:24, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

thanks and help request[edit]

Hi, I see you made Mount Pleasant, Queensland into a disambiguation page, which looks like a good thing. I see it though because I am participating in wp:DPL group that works to eliminate ambiguous terms, and the change transformed a number of inbound links to become ambiguous links. I am not at all familiar with which ones should be edited to link to Mount Pleasant, Queensland (Moreton Bay Region) vs. Mount Pleasant, Queensland (Mackay Region). Could you possibly please edit them?

The links to fix are most of the inbound links.

An easy way to fix them (if you are familiar with the facts and can identify which target is intended) is to use this "dab fix list" report. Just click on "Fix" for each of them and select the proper target.

Maybe too much info? or you know it?

Anyhow, thanks for improving Wikipedia already. --doncram 02:48, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

I think there is something broken in dabfix. It insists that Mount Pleasant, Queensland (Mackay Region) is a redlink on the disambiguation page, but when I look at the disambiguation page, it is a blue link (as it should be). I think something is not updating correctly somewhere. Kerry (talk) 03:51, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 06 January 2016[edit]

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A barnstar for you :)[edit]

Barnstar of Humour.svg Humour Barnstar!
Thank you for making me laugh out loud with your comment in this bug rerport. Thryduulf (talk) 00:58, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 13 January 2016[edit]


Hi Kerry, thanks for adding links to articles about Queensland people, but sometimes you're adding too many, which goes against the manual of style's guidance about linking. According to the above-linked section, links shouldn't be repeated in the body of an article (but an extra link in the lead section, an image caption, etc) is fine. I've fixed your edits at Townsville twice. Graham87 13:09, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Graham, for fixing them, but I'm happy to fix them myself if you just want to point it out if I have failed to notice myself. Kerry (talk) 20:56, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

RfC announce: Religion in infoboxes[edit]

There is an RfC at Template talk:Infobox#RfC: Religion in infoboxes concerning what should be allowed in the religion entry in infoboxes. Please join the discussion and help us to arrive at a consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 22:29, 17 January 2016 (UTC)


Thanks Kerry!
Be good if I got the correct company name per the source though [10].
About time Queensland Nickel has its own page perhaps? Or is the Palmer Nickel and Cobalt Refinery all it runs? 220 of Borg 03:38, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

If you have the sources, go for it. Our coverage of industry in Australia isn't too good so more would be better. Kerry (talk) 03:42, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Having just watched the TV news, it might be around much longer ... Kerry (talk) 09:35, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Not around, did you mean? I am spending too much time here already, and am in the throws of moving 'residence', so not too much time available. IIRC they haven't been paying their workers superannuation recently either! 220 of Borg 10:58, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
AusLondonder has done the 'duty' [11]. 220 of Borg 11:06, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, yes, I meant "not around". Thanks AusLondonder! Kerry (talk) 22:01, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

These are for you...[edit]


Hi Kerry, I'm grateful for your "thank-you" for South African War Memorial...the flowers are for you (I like them too!). SethWhales talk 13:27, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 January 2016[edit]

Royal Society of Queensland[edit]

Hello Kerry,

I hope you will not mind if I revert your edits to Eremophila cordatisepala, Melaleuca formosa and M. groveana. There was a link to Proceedings of the Royal Society of Queensland which in turn has a link to Royal Society of Queensland. Your edits unfortunately produce: "[[Proceedings of the Royal Society of Queensland]]" (including the [[ ]]). Gderrin (talk) 00:43, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

No worries at all. I had been adding links to both the society and its proceedings. I thought I had been careful to prevent the scenario you found but evidently not careful enough. I just went back now and double-checked and found one other case that had slipped through, so thanks for letting me know. Kerry (talk) 01:04, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 January 2016[edit]

You failed to note[edit]

This replaces User:Peter Horn of which I lost the password. Peter Horn.2 (talk) 04:09, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Actually I did notice. I tried to find out if there was a way to get your accounts merged (still waiting for an answer though). But I welcomed your new account, as otherwise Twinkle would keep nagging me and other Twinkle people to do so. Sooner or later someone would have welcomed your new account so I figured it might as well be me. Kerry (talk) 04:16, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
Technology is wonderful...when it works. Peter Horn.2 (talk) 15:36, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

articles for use in training class[edit]

Eg William Salkeld (politician) and others ...

Perhaps it would be better/safer to create them as subpages of your sandbox, and move them at the start of the training class, rather than relying on editors reading the edit summary. Mitch Ames (talk) 01:16, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

First thing Monday morning, I will busy with sorting out all the on-site arrangements, including the all the local IT arrangements, photocopying, etc, and then running the session, so I need to get this prep work done this morning as there is no other time available to me before the class. I wish we had a better way to "ring fence" articles being used for training but we don't unfortunately. This is the latest I can do the prep work on the articles given I have other commitments the rest of today. Kerry (talk) 01:24, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
best of luck with the new project - hope it all goes well! as for the suggestion from mitch I would second that - put it in a sandbox JarrahTree 01:30, 7 February 2016 (UTC)


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Your trainees[edit]

See George Davenport (Queensland politician). The various users with almost identical user pages that are apparently participating in this training are attracting some attention. As a CheckUser, I was contacted about this privately. It would be better if each user had a short note on their user page about their participation in the training. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:08, 8 February 2016 (UTC)\

What basis did these various users propose as Grounds for checking? Vandalism? Sock puppetry? Disruption? I hope you refused and referred these users to WP:AGF and WP:NOBITE. It's really sad that some members of our community were aware of these new users, yet thought that seeking to invade their privacy by requesting a CheckUser was more appropriate course of action than bothering to write a message of welcome to these new users (a one-click action in Twinkle) yet none of them appear to have received any message of welcome (apart from the ones I added hours later). And we wonder why we have declining numbers of active editors when we treat our new contributors in this way?! Certainly I find it highly demotivating given the volunteer time and effort I put into it. Kerry (talk) 08:17, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
What members of our community were "aware of these new users"? And how?--Bbb23 (talk) 12:36, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
Clearly they were "aware of these new users" enough to contact you, but not to, say, welcome them to the project considering they were all making plainly good-faith (and not even problematic) edits. The Drover's Wife (talk) 13:11, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
I interpret this was a 2-day course and it's over now. I have done a copyedit over the George Davenport (Queensland politician) article, and provided some comments on its talk page, if the new editor is interested to keep working on it. I think it's great to encourage new people to help contribute, and hope that I have demonstrated the collaborative nature of a wiki. --Scott Davis Talk 14:19, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, Scott Davis. Yes, you are right about the training being over now. Actually it was two half-day training classes on separate days. It was originally scheduled for Monday but we were oversubscribed relative to the number of PCs in the room so the group was then split over 2 days to accommodate everyone. I gave a talk about Wikipedia at the venue last week, which generated a high level of interest in the editing training. We spend most of the half-day session developing their User Page to learn the basics of text formatting, adding links and citations. Then I let them loose on new stub articles that I have created (we have a lot of redlinked Qld MLAs still and they provide me with a great set of topics for the new users to develop their skills). Incidentally this is the first group where I have taught the Visual Editor rather than the source editor. I think the Visual Editor was much easier for them to learn; previous training groups have struggled with the markup. Thanks all! Kerry (talk) 21:12, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 03 February 2016[edit]

My apologies for accidental rollback[edit]

Hi. This roll back was an accident: [12]. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 06:52, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

No worries. I had guessed it was an accident as I couldn't think of any good reason why someone would have objected to it. I've made the same mistake on occasion (too many windows open at once, etc). Kerry (talk) 06:56, 10 February 2016 (UTC)