Trout this user

User talk:Kevjonesin

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Howdy human! :  }[edit]

Seems you've found my talk page.
Feel free to leave comments, questions, musings, and messages of most any sort.
If you feel you have something to add/interject to existing or ongoing entries that's 'ok' by me as well.

--Kevjonesin (talk) 16:20, 27 April 2013 (UTC)


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Are you a WP:Dick?








Dont panic.svg

  ... ... Don't panic.


[ Talk Archive ]



Post new entries below preceding ones, please.[edit]

Thanks. :  }

--Kevjonesin (talk) 04:20, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Motto of the Day Help Request April 2014[edit]

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NewAmerican.com[edit]

I hope I'm not offending your beliefs, but the John Birch Society publication shouldn't be used for such factual statements. In virtually every case where they may be correct there will be a better source. Like the flashing star on the hat! Dougweller (talk) 10:57, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

By all means, if you have a better source at hand which covers the same info, feel free to insert it as a replacement and remove the 'The New American' reference. I'll confess I was unaware of the publication's John Birch Society association. However, the content of the specific article appears sound regardless of the possibility of 'tin-foil hats' elsewhere. Suggestion: Dougweller, as it's you who has chosen to object to the source (but not presumably the content), perhaps it might be apropos for you to take on the task of finding a replacement. Cheers! --Kevjonesin (talk) 12:15, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
I spent some time searching and when I found probably the best source realised it was already in that paragraph. I've added it to the first sentence also, but Philip S. Foner covers the entire history. Dougweller (talk) 12:35, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
Thumbs up cool!
... ... ... bonus trivia 4 U: Thums Up
:  } --Kevjonesin (talk) 13:22, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

I am involved[edit]

To explain and answer you question see this RfC -- PBS (talk) 23:32, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Notepad ++ system[edit]

Hi. I'm glad to see someone eventually noticed that page. :) To compare the Notepad++ syntax I posted with the WikEd software, you're going to find that WikEd comes out ahead in most regards. This is because it's a browser plugin, using the power of your browser to drive previewing and linking. The offering in my userspace is -for now, at least- nothing but a set of rules for syntax highlighting in an existing code-oriented text editor. The two big advantages my system offers is that it enables off-line editing, and saving drafts to your computer, as it uses a piece of standalone software (Notepad++) as it's base. The WikEd system runs in your browser, requires internet connectivity to work, and doesn't allow you to save.

If you're looking for the most powerful editing system, WikEd is going to be your choice. However, if you prefer to be able to work offline and save your drafts locally, Notepad++ with the language extension I created will serve you well. Note that a lot of the features on my page are potential future features, not current features. Right now, it only does syntax highlighting, although I've worked it so that this also accounts for some of the basic formatting (bold text appears bold, links are bold and colored, headings are larger and a different font, etc). However, there's nothing stopping you from using both. I do. I hope that answers your questions, and if you have any more just let me know. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 12:37, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

MjolnirPants, Thanks for responding (to link). Led me to snoop around a bit. Found Wikipedia:Text editor support. You may want to link to your stuff there. Noticed highlight code for vim there. Wonder if anyone is working on similar for (GUI based) *nix editors like gedit and geany? --Kevjonesin (talk) 14:30, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
No problem at all. I've updated the list, not only with my page, but with an external link to a full plugin for editing mediawiki (I just discovered this, and I'm going to download and test it soon, to see if I can incorporate my syntax highlighting into it). MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 15:26, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the recent heads up about a merge discussion[edit]

Patrol[edit]

I was notified, probably as creator of the page, that you'd 'patrolled' BlueMountain Capital. Seeing no trace on the page history or Talk there I'm guessing nothing too wrong was found and finding no result for wiki:patrol I was left wondering about the process, if you'd care to enlighten. Thanks. Swliv (talk) 20:42, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

  • @Swliv: Ha! Hi, Funny enough I recall having once been the one asking someone pretty much the same question ... and ironically I just (minutes ago on another's talk page edit mode hatnote of all places) discovered that it's so common there's even a template for answering it: {{subst:Whydidyoudothat}} ... which renders as a new section titled "Explaining" ...

Explaining[edit]

I patrolled your page. I went through the enormously-backlogged list of newly-created pages and confirmed that your page was okay: not spam, not an attack page, not a copyright violation, not any of the other reasons for which I would delete someone's page without asking. Then I clicked "patrolled" to remove it from the list of "pages that have not yet been patrolled", and moved on to the next entry. That's all. Kevjonesin (talk) 21:26, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Swliv 'Patrol' discussion continued[edit]

  • p.s.— There seems to be some unnecessary obscurity. Or maybe not enough obscurity ... Does it really serve any purpose to notify folks? Other than leading to questions like you've asked here, has anything actionable or substantially informative been conveyed? Personally, I'd go for skipping the personal notifications and having a publicly viewable automated note dropped into the relevant page's edit history instead. --Kevjonesin (talk) 21:26, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for doing the patrol work, the explaining and the reflection. I was lazy; if I'd gone to Wikipedia:Patrol or WP:Patrol instead of my 'wiki' link-try above I'd have probably found the 'new pages' intro. I agree that an auto-note to the edit history would be a good addition. I don't mind the notification to the article creator -- as it happened it was just fleeting and not easily traceable. (Somehow I got here.) All's probably pretty much fine as is; I like to poke around/learn-test the ways. Thanks again. Swliv (talk) 15:19, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

ECESR[edit]

[Kev Note: Discussion continued from User_talk:DragonflySixtyseven#ECESR_deletion --Kevjonesin (talk) 22:08, 23 April 2015 (UTC)]

The article as it was did not make any assertions of notability aside from "it exists". It had been around nearly a month, plenty of time for someone to expand it. Just as I could have added a deletion tag to it and left it for another admin, you could have added an "major edits in progress" tag.

Also, if it was — as you said — "copy/pasted from an About page with rough English", then that's copyvio and it has to be deleted. You're more than welcome to write a fresh article about it, though. I look forward to reading it. DS (talk) 21:19, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

  • @DragonflySixtyseven: As to ECESR, FWIW, my comments on your page weren't intended to imply you did anything wrong or violated any 'WikiLaws' or such. I was hoping to court empathy, not necessarily to drop chastisement. Regarding "that's copyvio and it has to be deleted", perhaps the offending text might have been replaced rather than the whole article removed ... as shown in the screenshot I linked in my initial message on your page. In retrospect ('hindsight's 20/20' and all that), it seems there might have been room for a bit more finesse. And in the future, please give some consideration to the 'turn signals' idea as a good faith courtesy.
I was unaware of a "major edits in progress" tag. It sounds useful though, so glad I broached the subject. An opportunity for me to apply "turn signals" on my part. What's the template? ({{major edits in progress}} doesn't render)
On the template topic ... if you glance up at the preceding few comments (here on my talk page) you'll see I found the {{subst:whydidyoudothat}} template I found on your talk page handy. Timely. Thanks.
--Kevjonesin (talk) 22:08, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

p.s.— Is there anyway to get the edit history and such from the deleted Ecesr page? If I start it fresh under ECESR I'd like to notify previous editors and check for links and such. ... Or perhaps it might be easier to simply restore the previous stub with its associated records and let me continue from where I left off? --Kevjonesin (talk) 22:29, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, that's template:Inuse. And I'll check. DS (talk) 22:31, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Okay, let's see. Edits by: user:Mostafty, plus two other users who added a references tag (although the only reference provided is ECESR's own site) and an 'uncategorized' tag. So we can ignore that. And Mostafty's five edits were: creating the content that you already had, adding the reference to ECESR's own site, moving the reference around, adding boldface, and adding more boldface. Just start from scratch, okay? DS (talk) 22:42, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

'kay --Kevjonesin (talk) 01:36, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
@DragonflySixtyseven: The seedling has been planted (i.e. ECESR). Care to patrol it? --Kevjonesin (talk) 19:06, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

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User name curiosity[edit]

Thanks for patrolling, and thanks for asking! My username is the first track on Norwegian black metal band Dimmu Borgir's 2nd album, Stormblåst. It translates to "All light has faded away." <> Alt lys er svunnet hen (talk) 22:25, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

The Sugar Hill Suite[edit]

[Regards User talk:DISEman#Oops? --Kevjonesin (talk) 02:45, 1 May 2015 (UTC)]

Check now (thanks for looking) DISEman (talk) 02:27, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Edit warring[edit]

Pasted content
Stop icon
Your recent editing history at Depraved-heart murder shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you get reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
This warning has been placed in regards to your recent 'See also' section wikilink removals. --Kevjonesin (talk) 04:47, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by MdCriminalAttorney (talkcontribs) 04:55, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

  • Tit-for-tat, copy/paste (via [1]). Classy. User:MdCriminalAttorney, in the future please don't sign my name to your entries as you did above. --Kevjonesin (talk) 05:20, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

I wanted to give you due credit for the text. This edit warning certainly applies to your conduct as well. It would not have been me to appropriate to just switch your name for mine. I would not want to be accused of plagiarism.

I feel you are trying to bully me into consenting to your referring to pending cases in an article about a principal of law, which is completely inappropriate. Looking at the page edit history, it has been a long line of you battling with other editors in order to advance your goal of connecting the Freddie Gray case to the depraved heart article. Why can't you just wait for the case to conclude before putting this stuff in? I am not defending the officer's conduct in this case, but they are cloaked with a presumption of innocence until a conviction, as every person charges with a crime is. If the officers plead guilty to a lesser charge, were convicted of only lesser charges, or acquitted, were you planning on going back and undoing these links/edits yourself? Because at that point, the links/edits would be factually incorrect. If someone is convicted of 2nd degree murder, there will eventually be an appellate opinion discussing the facts and law of the case. You could then write a whole article about that opinion.MdCriminalAttorney (talk) 06:06, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

  • @MdCriminalAttorney: I feel you side-stepped an on going discussion amongst multiple editors, plunging in like a new religion. And may be overindulging in imagining motivations for me beyond what I've stated. Note that while I've argued against removal of all traces of the Gray case I've also argued against inclusion beyond a brief mention and eventually as a practical matter have conceded that now that there is another case example in the 'Well-known cases' section it's probably best to leave the Gray case out of the main body of the article. However, I'm frustrated by your failure to grasp that 'See also' links do not act as references for an article. They serve a different purpose. Hence they have a section separate from those of 'Notes' and 'References'. 'External links' are also judged under different criteria and have their own section and are not seen as somehow backwards citing the body of the article. They are different things.


As to your copy/paste entry above, the original characters I placed on your talk page were:

{{subst:uw-3rr|Depraved-heart murder|This warning has been placed in regards to your recent 'See also' section wikilink removals. --~~~~}}

... the 'magic of the wiki' did the rest. If, as suggested, you decide take some more time to better familiarize yourself with the medium and the culture of Wikipedia you'll likely pick up a few 'spells' yourself. To start you off here's the grimoire page relevant to my example above: Template:Uw-3rr.
Oh, and please restore the citation you removed without explanation.[2] It links to information directly relevant to the content of the Wiki article. That the linked Vox article also touches upon the Gray case in addition to content explicitly explaining the subject 'depraved-heart murder' is no reason to exorcise it. You've accused me of being on some sort of crusade on behalf of the Freddie Gray case, might not a third-party get the impression at this point that you yourself are on some sort of crusade to white-wash away any trace of it?
Alas, conflict seems to lead to polarization which seems to lead ... to ... ? My feet are certainly made of clay, and frustration with process doesn't always leave me at my best. Good night, MdCriminalAttorney. Perhaps we can find a path to some sort of inclusive consensus at another time. --Kevjonesin (talk) 07:17, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Stop the bloody nonsense?[edit]

It would be appreciated if you do - Cwobeel (talk) 13:56, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

'Ditto'.[3][4]
User:Cwobeel, I do not trust you. Please do not post anymore to my talk page unless explicitly invited—by me—to do so. Effective immediately. --Kevjonesin (talk)
p.s.— And do not under any circumstances refactor anymore of my entries on other talk pages without my express permission. If you wish to request such permission, do not post here, {{ping}} me from your own—or from a relevant article talk page. --Kevjonesin (talk) 22:23, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:United Synagogue[edit]

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Hi, Kev,
If you saw my latest post on the talk page there, you will see that I am throwing in the towel. If you want to pick it up from there, welcome. --Ravpapa (talk) 11:15, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

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Trouted[edit]

Rainbow trout transparent.png Whack!

You've been whacked with a wet trout.

Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know you did something silly.

You have been trouted for: being to awesmoe

Snow close listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

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Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–50)[edit]

If you don't like something, please present your position on the Talk page.Xx236 (talk) 07:05, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps you might avail yourself of this as an opportunity to lead by example. i.e. Please elaborate as to what specifically you wish to address and why it is of concern to you. Tnx, --Kevjonesin (talk) 08:08, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
I'm still waiting for your explanation~on Talk:Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–50). Xx236 (talk) 08:15, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
"I'm still waiting for your explanation" ... Explanation of what? It would be much easier to assist you if you would elaborate as to what specifically you wish to address and why it is of concern to you. If you would prefer to do so on Talk: Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–50) rather than here—here, where you chose to initiate communication (rather than pinging me from elsewhere)—by all means feel free to lead by example and start a thread there explicitly addressing what has caught your interest and why.
[I'm both not psychic and not feeling particularly well today; if you're not just trying to express some sort of controlling territorial dominance behavior and instead actually have some genuine question about edits I've made you're going to need to express yourself with words and ask informed/informative questions. Maybe include links to relative diffs, etc. Otherwise, please pardon me and move on to other things.] --Kevjonesin (talk) 09:57, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
I have reverted your edit. It's your task to explain you are right, not here.Xx236 (talk) 08:02, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of LibreOffice Wiki Publisher Test[edit]

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Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice that the page you created was tagged as a test page under section G2 of the criteria for speedy deletion and has been or soon may be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.

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  • Thanks Omni, 'twas intended to go to my sandbox. I'm trying to figure out usage of LibreOffice's mediawiki extension. --Kevjonesin (talk) 10:50, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

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Disambiguation link notification for April 5[edit]

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My userpage[edit]

I'm wondering why a previous incarnation of my userpage is in your sandbox, and have been wondering for a while. You've probably left Wikipedia, though. -- I dream of horses  If you reply here, please ping me by adding {{U|I dream of horses}} to your message  (talk to me) (My edits) @ 00:04, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

  • I most likely liked some aspect of your formatting and copied it as a reference. I've done similar with various sized source snippets from others' pages; probably grabbed yours en masse out of convenience. If you offer me a link to the specific sandbox page in question I'll give it a closer look. As to whether I've "probably left Wikipedia" ... clicking on the link to my contribution history might offer some indication of my recent level of involvement. --Kevjonesin (talk) 05:29, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
p.s.— oops, forgot to ping: I dream of horses --Kevjonesin (talk) 17:23, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
Okay, thanks. -- I dream of horses  If you reply here, please ping me by adding {{U|I dream of horses}} to your message  (talk to me) (My edits) @ 23:26, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

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ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

Scale of justice 2.svg Hello, Kevjonesin. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

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Etherpad[edit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etherpad

https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Test-Pad_001

--Kevjonesin (talk) 11:36, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Syntax highlighting[edit]

Another note to self:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Samwalton9#Syntax_highlighting https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Remember_the_dot/Syntax_highlighter

Firework GIF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif

--Kevjonesin (talk) 08:05, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Reversion of File:Opened scallop shell (with arrows).png[edit]

Hi, I see you reverted my edit to the above mentioned image on Commons. I am wondering if we are on the same page: did you take the picture yourself? Because my own understand of authorship is that it is generated by the creator of an image and is not changed as the result of any derivative works based on that image. Please clear up for me where our pages are not lining up. Thanks! KDS4444 (talk) 10:49, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi KDS4444, I created the image file myself in GIMP (I've probably even got the working .xcf file on an old hard drive somewhere). I took a public domain image as a starting base image and then digitally altered image characteristics and added notation relevant to a talk page thread in which it was used to further discussion aimed at developing other images for mainspace display.
Basically, as I see it, the public domain image I started with was a 'raw ingredient' in this context which I then seasoned and garnished to bring about something else cooked by me to serve a specific purpose. Hence, for-better-or-worse, the credit/blame for the resultant file belongs to me (I certainly wouldn't want to blame YuryKirienko for my shoddy/hasty freehand annotation arrows; thankfully I've since learned better methods, even when working quickly in drafts).
To put it another way ... Would the author of:
Campbell's Soup with Can Opener.jpg
... be the Campbell Soup Company or Andy Warhol?
[Obviously, an annotated image created to further a discussion about improving some marine biology articles isn't likely to get lauded as 'fine art' anytime soon, but I think the general logic still applies.]
As a matter of custom and courtesy I did note on the Commons file page that I'd used another file from Commons in creating the file I uploaded via a 'derived from' template and the link provided with such takes one to a page noting YuryKirienko's contribution. If Yury would like me to explicitly add his name alongside the 'derived from' filename link I'm happy to do so, but as he gifted the image to the public domain rather than using some sort of CC-attribute license I'm guessing he's not particularly concerned about it. That's just me speculating on his behalf though; as Yuri's tagged above he should receive a notification and is welcome to comment for himself.
Now in looking back at the image history for commons:File:Opened scallop shell.jpg what I do see Yury might have cause to take umbrage with is the fact that graphists (including me, sadly) from the Wikipedia and Commons Photography Workshops radically cropped and altered his original image file and then uploaded the results overtop as replacements in clear violation of COM:OVERWRITE. The official guidelines and the habits-and-culture of the Photography labs have diverged over time in this respect and I've been giving thought lately to ways we might adapt both to better preserve a file page originator's composition and to accommodate pragmatic workflow at the Photography Workshops – as the present system—or lack thereof—leads at times to conflict and confusion.
Anyway, KDS4444, thanks for asking for my thoughts on this and I hope my reply doesn't feel too lengthy; I felt inspired to be thorough and speak to detail.
--Kevjonesin (talk) 19:50, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
p.s.-- Here's the actual image YuryKirienko entered into the public domain via Wikimedia Commons:
... and here's the one I did ...
While there certainly are obvious similarities, I think if one views them side by side significant differences should also become readily apparent. --Kevjonesin (talk) 21:29, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
    • Hi folks! A public domain is a public domain, so I think that everybody's free to do everything he wants with free pictures. -- YuryKirienko (talk) 11:25, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, Yury --Kevjonesin (talk) 12:25, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
All excellent points! Let me make a counter argument: the Campbell's soup can is "authored" by Warhol because it is a derivative work-- which is, it contains new creative content and is not simply a reiteration of a soup can. Along with this, the fact that an image is in the public domain does not give a person the rights to claim that he or she is in fact the author when someone else created the original work-- there may not be a lawsuit on the horizon, but authorship doesn't vanish when a work is placed in the public domain. I am not sure I believe that adding notation to an image constitutes new, original, creative input: I think it represents only writing letters and arrows on another image. I guess my point is that by claiming you are the author, you imply that you "created" the work (i.e., the creative part of it, the choice of lighting, the choice of angle, the choice of subject, the choice of color tones, etc., even if you did not consciously make any of these choices) whereas the only choices you did make were with regard to where to place the letters (difficult to argue that this is creative) or how to place the arrows (same problem). I, too, care rather passionately about this subject, and I want to get it hashed out at least for myself so that, if it turns out I did in fact make a mistake, I won't repeat it! Your thoughts on the above?? KDS4444 (talk) 08:04, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
Also, I left a note at the Village Pump on Commons explaining the confusion we are having over this and inviting others to have a look at it and help us figure out what the answer is. Am hoping someone will be along soon to offer their insights! KDS4444 (talk) 11:45, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── KDS4444, I'm a bit dumbfounded as the reasons you give to rule out my authorship are in large part reasons I feel actually establish my authorship. Did you compare the image I made in GIMP with the image YuryKirienko uploaded as I suggested?

p.s.-- Here's the actual image YuryKirienko entered into the public domain via Wikimedia Commons:
... and here's the one I did ...
While there certainly are obvious similarities, I think if one views them side by side significant differences should also become readily apparent. --Kevjonesin (talk) 21:29, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

My version clearly "contains new creative content and is not simply a reiteration" as evidenced by means of comparing "the creative part of it, the choice of lighting, the choice of angle, the choice of subject, the choice of color tones, etc.". Compared to Yury's photo file my creation has been cropped, rotated, the background has been both dimmed and blurred, color and contrast levels have been pushed to exaggerate detail, and then to top it off I added annotation indicating points off reference in red lines and letters. Jeez man, have you even been looking at stuff I've been citing – the file histories on Commons, the scallop article talk page discussion where my image is used, specific image links, official Commons guidelines, and such? Have you looked at Yury's photo next to my GIMP image?
[Compare the photo Yury posted and claims authorship of, not the cropped and altered digital image by User:Centpacrr that currently stands in its place (in violation of Commons guidelines). If you're feeling particularly thorough and want to look more into how File:Opened scallop shell.jpg's messy upload history came about feel free to have a poke around in the Wikipedia Photography Workshop's June 2013 archive and read the comments accompanying the file's edit request. And please note that even compared to Centpacrr's version there are additions and alterations performed by me evident in the image I put in place at File:Opened scallop shell (with arrows).png.

KDS4444, I've put a good bit of effort into laying the situation out in detail here with links, visual aids, and my own thoughts at some length. I'm left feeling that you've not been putting comparable effort into following up on the references I've presented. Please pardon me if I'm starting to come off as pissy, but I find it quite frustrating to have come here and found you attempting to cite the very details which distinguish Yury's photo from my GIMP creation as somehow evidential of their similarity. It implies a failure on your part to effectively explore the provenance I've painstakingly presented. Perhaps in the future it may help if you'd make more of an effort to provide specific links as citations along with the elements of your 'counter arguments' — such may help better establish whether apples-to-apples comparisons have been made, among other things.

--Kevjonesin (talk) 12:14, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Kev, please don't become angry. I am sorry that I have not been thoroughly attentive, and yes, you have put more into this interaction than I have, though this is only because I am very busy with a number of other things at the moment and dividing my time between then appropriately can sometimes be difficult for me. Please understand that I am trying to take this issue very seriously, and will henceforth be making an effort to be more present and thorough here for you. You have clearly given this a great deal of thought and have moved carefully through the process. Let me see if I am able to respond in kind. It's no fun dancing with a partner who is on the phone or responding to emails, and no one learns anything that way either. So let us try to dance. You have my attention, and I do not want to turn out to have been a jerk here to you.

Okay, then. There is a lot to respond to. Let's see if I can hold the A.D.D. in check (!). I have now compared the original photo taken by Yuri with the one you ended up producing with the annotations (you may or may not recall that I myself was the editor with whom you interacted in attempting to figure out what all those scallop organs were back in the talk page! It was me!! Me! And I thought we did a pretty good job of figuring them all out, and your annotations to the image certainly helped us do that). I can see that you cropped it and enhanced the colors, and then added the annotations (of course). The other changes you made are more subtle, but I do not disagree with your claim to have made them, all of them.

And so, we now stand on a point, comparing the two, where we ask ourselves, "Is the second image a derivative work with sufficient new creative content to warrant a new copyright claim and a new claim of authorship?" The Wikipedia article on the subject states, "A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work”." It also says, "A typical example of a derivative work received for registration in the Copyright Office is one that is primarily a new work but incorporates some previously published material. " and it says, "To be copyrightable, a derivative work must be different enough from the original to be regarded as a "new work" or must contain a substantial amount of new material. Making minor changes or additions of little substance to a preexisting work will not qualify the work as a new version for copyright purposes." Another thing I am looking at there is the degree to which the second/ derivative work is somehow "transformative" of the first-- does it take the earlier work and genuinely transform it in ways that are not merely technical and that demonstrate the creative personality of the person who makes the second work? I am still not certain your changes to Yuri's image qualify on those grounds.

As a counterpoint regarding paying attention to what the other has written, you never responded to my comment regarding the Campbell's soup can, which you and I both agree belongs to Warhol but don't seem to agree on why. Since the can is a subject you brought up, and on which I feel I have a pretty firm footing for explaining why it is a derivative work entitled to its own authorship which is different from your own claim of new authorship for the scallop, perhaps we can continue to use that as out framework for comparison? Maybe the answer lies that way (or maybe it does not-- what do you think?).

It doesn't look like anyone from Commons has decided to drop in, but there is still time. Let's be sure we don't generate too large of a wall of text before they get here :-) Okay? Am looking forward to hearing back from you. Let's keep this friendly. I like you, Kev. KDS4444 (talk) 02:21, 19 January 2017 (UTC)