User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz/Archive 40

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Archive 39 Archive 40 Archive 41


Hey gorgeous!

I'm working on (someone else's) little project at the moment, just because it kinda appeals to me. It's getting a real-newbie-type basic introduction to the why's and how's of a few WikiPolicies across, in (hopefully) the shortest terms that the reasons and absolute basics can be got across, in a format which can't be readily misunderstood or misconstrued by anyone at all. It doesn't aim to cover the entire policies in all the detail, but links to them as a "read more" kinda thing. Could you take a look over here and give me some feedback, when you have a spare moment? Pesky (talk) 02:51, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi Pesky!
I've been sorry for not helping you with the horse article, and I also need to help mentor a Berkeley cooperator. I'm behind on my keeping my pledges.
The page looks very good. My comment would be that we should avoid "cutesy names" as examples. They sound "very American", and are not easy for non-native-English speakers to understand. Also, the tone should appeal to encyclopedia writers, who should be adult-level readers and writers, and that page sounds a bit too sing-song. But I like the spirit of it all and most of the implementation. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:29, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

COI+ certification proposal

I've thought of an idea that might break our current logjam with paid editing. I'd love your sincere feedback and opinion.

Feel free to circulate this to anyone you think should know about it, but please recognize that it hasn't agreed upon by either PR organizations or WikiProjects or the wider community. It's also just a draft, so any/many changes can still be made.

Thanks and cheers,


EdwardsBot (talk) 15:01, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

A policy should be crafted. One wishes that the medieval aristocratic abhorrence of commerce shall be replaced by the enlightenment respect for placing the passions under the control of the interests. Input from professional associations of public relations associations is indeed well solicited. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 05:48, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Some baklava for you!

Baklava - Turkish special, 80-ply.JPEG Hey Kiefer whats up for me it is going very WELL Respond on my page THANKS meeting you Kelenna (talk) 23:28, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 July 2012

The Signpost: 06 August 2012

Age template

Paternalist reaction as usual
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Again Kiefer seems to be over-compensating about the young 'uns.

Hi Kiefer. I was wondering if you could draft a template that could be substituted to leave a message to younger editors who choose to display their age on their user page that informs them of reasons not to use it/directs them to Wikipedia:Guidance for younger editors (which sadly says nothing about displaying your age). I want to make sure it isn't something that scares them, but it should have enough information so that the decision they make is informed. Ryan Vesey 20:37, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

This might be a good idea, but usually it is better to email the user and suggest that he contact oversight. You might ask NewYorkBrad (who has drafted an essay for young editors) or WormThatTurned (who is now clerking and has mentored many young editors) or anybody listed at oversight. I have strong opinions, but this an area where experience, knowledge, and service matter, and you should ask somebody better equipped than me to help. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:44, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll do so, sorry for not getting back to you earlier. Ryan Vesey 02:59, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Finally wandering over to say I will look into this as soon as I can. KW, I actually stopped clerking quite quickly, it felt like bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy, drudge work that I didn't feel made a difference. All power to those who do it, but I'd rather spend my time more productively! WormTT(talk) 09:57, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Sorry to hear that it was less interesting and engaging than you'd believed it would be. Nonetheless, it may have given you perspective as to whether you really want to deal with knuckleheads showing up at ArbCom---especially the hard cases that do their work via e-mail.
Good luck! :) Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:57, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Are we talking about children (under 16s) or people my age? (21 and 24 months) Thanks Jenova20 (email) 10:26, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
I wrote about persons who are not legally adults. I had not intended adults. I suppose wards (under the legally authorized care/protection of an adult) should not be displaying personal information; those with health conditions (e.g., Asperger's syndrome) should not display such information. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 12:46, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
[Pesky pins KW to the floor, jumps up and down on him, and administers a small dose of friendly sadism...] D'oh! I have many "health conditions", but HFA, and all its relations, is not one of them! I really think that if adults wish to identify as Aspergers, HFA, etc., then it may be helpful to do so. Of course I don't for one moment approve of outing someone else as being so if they choose not to self-identify, but it's possible that non-self-identifiers might find it easier to get (for example) plain English policy explanations or some other kind of help by noting who is both an experienced editor and also somewhere in the non-neurotypical area of the autism-spectrum continuum. It's also possible that editors with a flawed understanding of ASD's may actually gain a greater (and more enlightened and appreciative) understanding by noting that there are respected editors who self-identify as being in this area. Summary: it's not a "health condition", its a pre-loaded software difference. Pesky (talk) 08:03, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
Others may wish to avoid exposure to hurtful comments, particularly by stalkers.Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:06, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
They are responsible for the information they post here though and to an extent some infomartion is fine to give out. Like me, i actually stuck on my talk page that i'm dyslexic and sovisitors shouldn't bite if i do something wrong. We need a balance between what's realistic and what's unrealistic. Mobile numbers and addresses are incredibly inappropriate but knowing of health conditions like dyslexia, autism, aspergers etc will help you deal with another editor better and without writing a message they won't understand.
As Pesky says though, we shouldn't be so accepting "outing" someone else with this stuff. Thanks Jenova20 (email) 08:24, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm (personally) relatively happy (for which read "prepared to accept the risk") to be in the line of fire for unwanted comments and attacks, but it always has to be a personal choice. But such things as dyslexia, ASD's, and so on really aren't "health" issues, as such. They're not "mental illnesses", despite a very commonly-held mythconception of them as being so. Yes, they can make a big difference, but so can colour-blindness or deafness, and nobody classifies those (or at least I hope they don't!) as a "mental illness". Some extra research (beyond the article) on Temple Grandin is educational. Pesky (talk) 08:28, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
A self-identification of an editor as having Asperger's syndrome has led (twice I think) to my asking another (irritated) editor to be understanding in private emails. It does some good. However, I don't think other editors use AS information as I have; I have never received such a request, although it may be that I have a sweeter nature than those I've mailed. I agree with Jenova20 about the importance of privacy for some information. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:42, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
As and when Real Life issues permit, I'm always happy to act as interpreter between A-spectrum and neurotypical editors. I, too, am in complete agreement that privacy is of vital importance for some information, particularly (and obviously) as regards minors. You might like to read this thing, just out of interest. Pesky (talk) 08:46, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

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My RfA

Good candidate who will be a good administrator in a few months
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended content

Thank you for participating in my RfA, I really appreciate it.

Oh, and for the record, I've seen you around quite a bit in recent times. You sure have come a long way over the past several months. Keep up the good work. =) Master&Expert (Talk) 00:02, 8 August 2012 (UTC)


Thank you, Master&Expert, and good luck with the use of the powers inherent to your ascension to the next level of this RPG.
About your polysemic words: From a humble seed, I have grown to a blossoming flower and lately to a fruit bearer. ;) Thanks for noticing. :)
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:18, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
I didn't actually succeed at RfA, so I haven't quite earned enough EXP to gain a level. But I'm working at it! Hard at work. ;)
Yes, I can tell. I remember last year, you were quite the different character than you are now. It's like you made a dramatic 180° turn. Keep it up, you're doing great. =) Master&Expert (Talk) 12:20, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
I have no idea what you're writing about, when you suggest a change of character.
You should be happy with my approval. :D What do you care what the puling masses think? ;) Kiefer.Wolfowitz 12:31, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

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Credo Reference

I'm sorry to report that there were not enough accounts available for you to have one. I have you on our list though and if more become available we will notify you promptly.

We're continually working to bring resources like Credo to Wikipedia editors, and this will very hopefully not be your last opportunity to sign up for one. If you haven't already, please check out WP:HighBeam and WP:Questia, where accounts are still available. Cheers, Ocaasi 19:14, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Picking names from the end of the alphabet does not constitute a random sample, btw. It may have been haphazard and free from conscious foreseen bias, but usually a random sample would be preferable.
What conclusions can be drawn from a trial without randomization? That persons with later names are chosen first?
For a justified conclusion that Credo accounts are likely to improve articles or increase retention of writers, randomization has been recommended since the 1870s. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:49, 30 August 2012 (UTC)


Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Kiefer.Wolfowitz. You have new messages at Jason Quinn's talk page.
Message added 12:54, 28 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Jason Quinn (talk) 12:54, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, and explanation. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:48, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 August 2012


"It is said that a Shaolin priest can walk through walls.

Looked for, he cannot be seen.

Listened for, he cannot be heard.

Touched, he cannot be felt."

Hi Kiefer. Any reason you don't have email communications enabled? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 16:37, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

I have tried to reduce my WP involvement to spend more time with my family, and sometimes to play guitar. Reducing email contact is part of that decision. I had thought that you had my email address in real life. I shall send it to you. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:46, 29 August 2012 (UTC)


Id guess that like Colonel Smith you dont subscribe to the theory of random chance, and perhaps lean towards viewing coincidences as elements of the great plan? The quote you posted to me is from a section called Chance. The lines immediately preceding it are "Everything which has value is the product of a meeting, last throughout this meeting and cease when those things which met are separated. That is the central idea of Buddhism (the thought of Heraclitus). It leads straight to God."

By chance I was visiting her grave only last Sunday, just added some pics to the article. Im still hoping to totally rewrite it one day. Maybe not for a year or two, there are over a hundred thousand sources to sample, and its not easy to pick out the best ones to show the applicability of her ideas to the great problems. The need for her to be properly understood is greater now than ever before, with the global decline in religiosity, the "return of hunger" to which over a billion now suffer from, and with the rapidly expanding precariat to which millions (billions) more belong.

Eliot wrote that only the young are likely to have the clarity to grasp the applicability of her thought, so Ive been sending copies of Need for Roots to some up and coming politicians. One of them told me its been keeping her awake at night, and that she's recommended her to one of Ed Milibands senior advisers. So things are slowly happening. If they come together, it will be a kinder more just world that your beatutiful daughter grows up into, where she'll feel less need to take up the burden of the tzzadik, and be more free to enjoy the beauty of life. FeydHuxtable (talk) 19:14, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

I shall write more later, but I am touched by your message.
I rarely touch liquor, but I understand the appeal of a shot of vodka in the morning. For my part, I find reading Trotskyists and Roman Catholics invigorating. Ralph Miliband wrote a nice paragraph about the role of the working class (now paywalled, alas)] which is worth reading (but probably not worth tattooing on oneself).23:43, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, tried to sign up to buy the article, but the site kept saying Id failed to enter the anti spam code. Not sure about Miliband, but many left wing commentators in the 80s seemed almost too shell shocked to grasp what had happened. They did a lot pointless soul searching, not seeming to realise the underlying cause of the lefts fall from grace was the rightward shift of the global political centre that had took place between about 68 & 83. This article has quite a good overview of the main forces driving the change. And Embedded liberalism is not bad at indicating the quasi cyclical nature of these big shifts. If Im not misreading the political unconscious, we're almost due for another sea change, with the tipping point maybe in 2017. There's a risk that US republican insanity could derail things, but I tend to think the biggest danger is too far a shift to the left.
Another reason why her work is now so relevant. She was one of the first left winger thinkers to suggest that the totalitarian left could be just as oppressive as the worst capitalists. The problem is always with the elite. She wrote that before there could be a revolution that generally improved conditions for regular people, it would be necessary to accurately understand the mechanics of social oppression. She came probably closer than anyone to doing this with her essay on Oppression and Liberty. Camus and dozens of others have called it the greatest political essay of the 20th century. Its interesting you mention Trotsky, although he was far closer to her thinking than Stalin, she still strongly disagreed with him both in print and in person. Apparently she was one of the very few who the better of him in debate, he was spluttering with rage and shouting, while she was calmly making her points. Have added this to the article, though made the claim more neutrally as Im not sure whether witnesses sympathetic to Trotsky would agree.
Anyway, hope my message didnt come across as moribund. While the selfish elite are now causing more distress than ever, the fact that its now being felt by hundreds of millions of middle class folk, not just the inarticulate, means that the prospects for lasting positive change are better than in normal times. FeydHuxtable (talk) 11:44, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
I shall try to write later today or tomorrow. When we correspond we usually discuss serious matters, and I try to write with due care. Without attentiveness, affection does not suffice.
Simone Weil's beautiful writings always strike me like Karen Carpenter's singing---so beautiful and so sad. Why the self-hatred and anti-Jewish writing for Weil? Why the anorexia for both, and for Gödel? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:48, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

The pleasures of the community of Wikipedians

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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

How about actually using the talk page rather than slap your bullshit tags all over the article? Or do you really think that it needs two NPOV tags? All the sources are also reliable, disagree? Take it to the appropriate board. Slapping tags all over an article and not using the talk page is disruptive and pointy editing, so use the talk page. Facts, not fiction (talk) 13:00, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

You are damaging the reputation of Wikipedia because of your tendentious editing regarding Pakistan.
Somebody who can parse English syntax should help in the clean up of your latest "article". One (first?) citation is to an article warning that it is based on a convenience sample that cannot be used to generalize to any population.
Hit the road. You are blocked or banned. You just don't know it yet. (Watch Donnie Darko and consider whether somebody can know the future....)
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:06, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
As I thought, no actual reasonable discussion, just sound and fury. Read WP:TE again before accusing me of it. WP:AOTE in particular. I have supplied reliable secondary academic sources, you have provided hot air. Facts, not fiction (talk) 13:11, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
You have recently returned from a block for tendentious editing on Pakistan, and you have now violated your indefinite 1RR restriction. I won't waste time discussing anything with you, until you are ready to admit your errors and improve. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:13, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Accusations of "disruptive editing" comparable to "domestic violence" and ANI threats from an administrator
From Orlady's talk page
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Domestic violence in Pakistan

Pumpkin Sky closed out the nom for DYK as rejected, he has reopened it now however. Do you think the article is now suitable to go ahead? Facts, not fiction (talk) 19:39, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

KW is off again, the nomination may as well be withdrawn he will not drop it. I had hoped to bring a serious issue to public attention, all I got in return was abuse. I shall not bother with further DYK's. Thank you for your help. Facts, not fiction (talk) 21:11, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm not dropping it. Kiefer's disruptive behavior (including his harassment of you and his disruption of DYK) is unacceptable. If he continues, he'll be at WP:ANI very soon. The situation is a lot like domestic violence; if Wikipedia gives in to disruptive behavior, it will only continue -- and get worse. --Orlady (talk) 23:04, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
I suggest you withdraw your improper remarks. Domestic violence, indeed. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:09, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
From DYK Archive 82
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

DYK hook fails verification but promoted

The above DYK hook fails verification, but it got verified (I guess that was an error) and now it is promoted. The hook says "that between 70 and 90 percent of women in Pakistan have suffered some form of sexual violence" but the actual source says "According to Human Rights Watch, studies on violence against women estimate that a woman in Pakistan is raped every two hours; approximately 70 to 90 percent of women suffer from some form of intimate partner violence". Can somebody please take a look into the matter please? The hook is currently in Queue 1. --SMS Talk 18:57, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

I am the one who approved the hook. I want to point out that at the time I reviewed it, no Google book URLs had been provided and all of the sources were offline. I AGF'd it. Since then, URLs which allow for better verification have been added. I have no control over moving this out of Queue 1, but for what I knew when I was able to know it the hook seemed fine. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:12, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Irresponsible DYK claim about Pakistan rape incidence;;

The Pakistani rape-claim needs to be tabled until it is properly vetted.

70%-90% of women is a rather large confidence interval for a proportion. It is difficult to imagine a human-subjects board allowing such a crappy study that would have so few subjects.

On checking the poor reference

one finds vague references to "studies" by Humans Right Watch, which is an advocacy organization rather than a conventional reliable source.

What the fuck is this doing on the queue for the main page of Wikipedia?

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:10, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree entirely. In fact, if you look at the DYK hook review (Template:Did you know nominations/Rape in Pakistan: Revision), I specifically mentioned that I'd want others' input on whether it's even a suitable topic for Wikipedia's front page. Slightly more than just 7 hours after I reviewed the hook, User:PumpkinSky promoted it, not waiting for others to chime in. That was a grossly irresponsible promotion. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:14, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
I think whether the topic is suitable for the Main Page is a different issue from whether the hook is verified. (I also have some doubts about the article being sufficiently neutral in tone). Going to pull it out of the queue and replace it with another hook now, unless someone else gets there first. It can then be reconsidered. (BTW I'm the one added the URLs; I was able to see all but one of the cited articles/book pages, but that may vary depending where one is.) Yngvadottir (talk) 19:33, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
That is absolute bollocks. Human Rights Watch are cited by academics and governments worldwide. They are a very reliable source for all manner of human rights abuses. The book used is from an academic publisher also. Take it to the RSN board if you think the source is of no use. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:56, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
They do have a POV, and this needed much better handling. Secretlondon (talk) 02:25, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Hook pulled, nomination template reopened, author notified

I think I've set it all up so we can all discuss this expeditiously at Template:Did you know nominations/Rape in Pakistan: Revision. But I will note, Jrcla2, that either of the checkmarks/ticks means you believe it's ready. If you have a serious concern that you believe should be discussed first, next time please use one of the "there's a problem that needs resolving first" symbols. (Of course, part of the problem is that we've had less than a flood of passed articles of late, so they're getting promoted relatively soon after they are given the go-ahead. I had to scramble to do a QPQ review for my last one before it actually hit the Main Page, ahem :-) ) Yngvadottir (talk) 19:52, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

In hindsight I agree, I should have chosen a different symbol. At least the issue was caught ahead of time. This would have been bad news bears if it had made the main page as is. Jrcla2 (talk) 20:00, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Darkness Shines, the author, has now added another reference and proposed an alternate hook based on it. May I recommend we talk about it at the nomination page? (although I'll be afk soon for sleep; but I also think I've shoved my oar in on this.) Yngvadottir (talk) 20:16, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Earlier DYK that was pulled: Misrepresentation of intimate-partner violence as "sexual violence" with link to rape
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Created/expanded by Darkness Shines (talk). Self nom at 17:37, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 03 September 2012

The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)

Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page.

Steven Zhang's Fellowship Slideshow

In this issue:

  • Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
  • Research: The most recent DR data
  • Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
  • Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
  • DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
  • Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
  • Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?
Read the entire first edition of The Olive Branch -->

--The Olive Branch 19:12, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Need to change your signature.

The powers that be are turning on HTML5 in two weeks on WikiPedia. This should mean the elimination of <font> tag. Going thru my talk page and I noticed you used the font tag. There Is a page that helps out with formatting text or give me a buzz if you need help. Bgwhite (talk) 04:30, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the personalized heads-up! :)
You directed me to a page that describes the font tag, so I am not worried yet. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:03, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

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User talk:Jarble#Your duplication tags


Hi, Kiefer.Wolfowitz. Since you've had to advise Jarble on Wikipedia formatting issues before (in your case WP:OVERLINKING), would you mind weighing in on the linked discussion? (talk) 18:24, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi Friendly Neighborhood IP-man!
(1) I think that Jarble, like the rest of, will respond best to empathy and appeal to his good sense.
I could have better empathized before, regardless of the hour or the number of articles from which I'd removed his excessive linking.... Since I was terse and firm, I don't think I'm a good intermediary to help you.
Jarble did not respond to me, and doesn't seem to respond much on his talk page. I would suggest finding an editor with whom Jarble has had productive discussions in the past.
(2) WP does have policies on importing text from other articles, which at minimum require an edit summary noting such borrowing. I've borrowed from articles I've written (or that Hyacinth has written) and I try to acknowledge the source in the edit summary. In cases of translation from other language Wikipedia to English WP, WP has templates.
Jarble may be right on policy, although I suspect his communications could be better written (as mine could be). I would ask the copyright experts. There are some links on my user page to projects on copyright, etc.
Good luck! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:52, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm aware of guidelines on taking information from one Wikipedia article and using it in two or more other Wikipedia articles, but not any policy on it. Not to mention, some people write text that they are going to use for more than one Wikipedia article, and it's not a case of borrowing in those instances. Like I told Jarble: "There are plenty of articles that duplicate text because the text is relevant to more than just one article." ... I also extended that to articles that share more than just the WP:Summary style text. Your continued use of the duplication tag still doesn't seem completely correct because, from what I can see, the articles are applying WP:Summary style. However, some of their sections are pointing to sections of other articles where the section isn't even going over anything new -- that is, they aren't extensively elaborating on the topic; as such, in those cases, the tag may be okay to use. But it just seems like a useless tag to me because so many Wikipedia articles have a small, meduim or large overlap. The duplication tag could apply to most of the articles on Wikipedia. Whatever the case, it definitely shouldn't be placed at the top of articles; it's a section tag, at least the one you're using, not a "whole article" tag.
But, anyway, thanks for the reply, Kiefer.Wolfowitz. (talk) 00:30, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I agree with you on all of your main points. It's just good to tread cautiously around copyright issues. It's also good to write early in the day rather then late at night when delivering advice!
Good luck! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:37, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks again. (talk) 17:31, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your message about stats by Henryk

Resolved: StatsGrok is again groking the fullness...
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended content

Thanks for your message about stats by Henrik but these informations

"Emw's version is a visual tool written by Emw, based off of Henrik's data. Trending Topics, provides detailed view. Also does not go as far back in time as WikiRoll: top viewed pages of the day/week/month/year on some Wikipedias, by Maciej Smoleński. WikiTrends: articles with biggest view increases (only Wikipedia) Wiki-Watch: Last 30 days, also works when is down. For Wikipedia English. For Wikipedia German: Raw data used for third party programs or analyzing (Henrik's source); see also User:Emijrp/Wikipedia_Archive#Domas_visits_logs"

aren't useful. Stats by Henrik are out of order. And we don't know why... That's a pity. Thanks a lot again and best regards.

IP, 8 September 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:47, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

This be the message: Man hands on misery to man

Mushrooms get kept in the dark and fed shit. Swedes love mushrooms.
Life is unfair, and full of bitter disappointments.
Hendrik is away, and repeating complaints on his page is unlikely to summon him.
Try leaving a bunch of mushrooms on his talk page. Swedes cannot resist mushrooms in the fall.
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:34, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Invitation to comment at Monty Hall problem RfC

You are invited to comment on the following probability-related RfC: Talk:Monty Hall problem#Conditional or Simple solutions for the Monty Hall problem? --Guy Macon (talk) 17:14, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, but this seems like a headache. I trust Richard Gill's judgment. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:43, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
RfCs usually should be a last resort. The Information Technology RfC seems to have been premature, and two edits counter-productive:
  • Unless you are aiming to escalate irritation into conflict, please do not blue-link policy to established editors, particularly late at night.
  • Also, unless you are being deliberately provocative, do not put templates on the talk pages of established editors.
We all make mistakes. I wish you luck with IT and MHP. Sincerely, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:41, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Grooveshark screenshot of King Crimson work.png)

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IP editor at work again

Hi Sven and bot!

An IP editor removed the screen-shot, along with discussion of copyright infringement from the lede.

Same old, same old.

Maybe somebody should add Fripp's statement that UMG is worse than Grooveshark?

Sincerely, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:34, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 September 2012

Hey K-Wolf

Good to hear from you. On to political guitarists, eh? I've been working on Oregon pioneer history over the last week or so. What they did to the Native American population here in the 1840s and 1850s was flat out genocide, it would seem. Pretty interesting, I'm learning as I go. best, Carrite (talk) 03:08, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Patt was an honest geologist, in my judgment, and he just said that some DOE models made unrealistic or unsupported assumptions, which might seriously understate the risks for contamination. This is usually what scientists do when consulting! ;)
The Argentinian Indian Wars were pretty bad, also. I think that the USA's Native American population has recovered its pre-conquest numbers, about 2 million. (How does one count mestizos?)
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Vital articles

Just an FYI, I undid your BOLD edits to the page until the discussion plays out, and also added an unsigned template to the discussion you started pbp 15:00, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Von Neumann and Kolmogorov are orders of magnitude more important than Gödel or Turing, so I have trouble imagining that revert as supported by any mathematician.
The others could have some discussion, I suppose, although Gibbs and Fourier and either Pearson or Fisher should be added. Peirce should be added also. It's hard to imagine Nietzsche or Freud, etc., being judged important in comparison. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:19, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 September 2012

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Major thirds tuning: Fair-image pictures from Patt

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended content

I've removed the image from the article once again. Talk page or no talk page, good article review or no good article review, the image lacks a rationale for this usage (and thus fails NFCC#10c) and it is not clear what readers are losing by not seeing this particular guitar (and so it seemingly fails NFCC#8). I'm happy to discuss it, but it unambiguously fails at least one of the NFCC, and so does not belong in the article at this time, and, in any case, the burden of proof falls on you to demonstrate that it does meet the criteria, not to me to prove that it doesn't. J Milburn (talk) 15:28, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

And now I see that you have reverted my edits at Ralph Patt‎. It'd be nice if you'd provide a policy-basis for your edits, rather than just attacking my intentions. J Milburn (talk) 15:30, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

You need to cool your jets.
You stated that the guitar appears in the lead picture, which suggests you have either vision problems or other problems.
The article has been reviewed (for more than a few minutes, a habit you would do well to acquire) by User:Reaper Eternal, who is familiar with licensing standards, as am I. You can discuss why the rationale given on the talk page is inadequate, but your thrill-kill spree of fair-use images shall not include this article. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:34, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
There's no way I'm going to be able to have anything resembling a reasonable dialogue with you when you're approaching the situation with that attitude. I am a highly experienced good/featured article reviewer, and so your review jibe has absolutely no place here (and no, I'm not an expert on guitars.). I severely doubt that you are familiar with "licensing standards" if you believe that plastering these book covers on the article is completely acceptable. I have already explained why the images do not meet the policy, and I have pointed out that the burden of proof lies with you. Do you want me to explain it again? What more do you want from me? J Milburn (talk) 15:43, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Your deletion rationale for the guitar was ridiculous, and demonstrated that you had not understood the images and their role in the article. Are you saying that you had bothered to read the articles before removing images and proposing their deletion from en:WP willy nilly? Your contributions log shows you had little time to do so....
The covers for the booklets may be deleted, but the on-line Vanilla Book does serve a useful role and it should be preserved if possible. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:05, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok. I'm not an expert on guitars. I assumed it was the same one as was used on the lead image, because, glancing through the article, it said that that guitar was used by the subject. If I was wrong, I apologise. I don't think that justifies you labelling everything I say as heresy. I didn't read every word of the article, but I did try to get an idea of the subject matter in order to judge the usage of the images. Even if it's not the same guitar as the one in the lead image, it's still not clear to me that it is necessary for the article. The NFCC require that removal of an image be detrimental to reader understanding of an article- I'm not clear on why seeing this particular guitar is so important to reader understanding that not seeing it would be a bad thing. As for the Vanilla Book, what do you feel the cover adds? Sure, the book is important, but that doesn't necessarily mean that its cover is. J Milburn (talk) 16:12, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
"The article has been reviewed (for more than a few minutes, a habit you would do well to acquire) by User:Reaper Eternal, who is familiar with licensing standards." I actually haven't yet checked the copyright status of any of the images. (I commonly review the prose first, since that takes the most time, and review the images when the prose is settled.) I did take the time to review the image copyrights, and I have to agree that the covers of the two booklets do not really belong in the article since they do not add much to the understanding of the article. Furthermore, their removal would benefit the article by reducing the excessively large number of images (I believe I commented about this in the GA review), and it would leave your created images which do benefit the article by demonstrating the various aspects of major-thirds tuning. Concerning the unfree image of the guitar, I am currently uncertain about whether it is necessary for understanding the article. Personally, if this were my article, I would remove it because I dislike non-free content. The image of Ralph Patt is necessary, since no free alternative could be made (he has died), and none appear to exist, thus passing WP:NFCC #8. Reaper Eternal (talk) 16:24, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I added the second guitar because the Patt--guitar image is blurry (and it appears to be a six-string guitar, to this non-expert). I used to have difficulty imagining what an eight-string guitar looks like. Most 8-string guitars are heavy-metal axes (not jazz guitars), so imagining what Patt's guitar looks like is very difficult. (You can look at the articles on 9-10 string guitars to see that they look much weirder, than Patt's or other 8-string guitars.)
Regarding the Vanilla book. Its subtitle and explanation of the title are visible on the cover, which provide valuable information. The subtitle and explanation (from Lester Young) are not discussed in reliable sources (or if my memory is correct, the "color" source from the Yahoo guitarist group, with a death notice).
Again, it may be reasonable to delete both images, although I think it would be erroneous to delete the eight-string guitar from the article. I could certainly understand a talk-page consensus to delete the Vanilla book cover from the article. I trust that it would be reasonable nominate the images for deletion only after the talk page consensus had recommended such deletion. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:27, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
There remains a fair use rationale for the major-thirds tuning article to have a picture of Patt's guitar, since he was the founder and because multiple reliable sources discuss the use of 7- and 8-string guitars for major-thirds tuning.
I understood fair use to allow only one use per image, and so two different guitars are used in the Patt and M3 articles.
I again would ask that you discuss this on the talk page and allow consensus to form before nominating the picture for deletion. Please remove the 2 premature templates. Sorry. I misread the time-stamp, and thought that you had re-inserted the templates despite this discussion. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:32, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
I accept that the guitar itself is probably significant, but that doesn't necessarily mean that an image is required- it just means that it should be talked about. If we're using the image to show what an 8-string guitar would look like, then it would be replaceable. It may be replaceable anyway- where's the guitar now? Alternatively, to cut down on non-free content, you could use a lead image of Patt with the instrument- two birds, one stone? That sounds like it would be a good compromise for our respective positions, at least with regards to the Patt article. J Milburn (talk) 19:18, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Also, there's no need to have both File:Eight-string acoustic-electric guitar of Ralph Patt.jpg and File:Eight-string acoustic-electric hollow-body guitar by Jim DiSerio 1960s for Ralph Patt .JPG. Nothing stops the same non-free image being used in two articles, provided both usages meet the NFCC (including both usages having detailed, specific and separate rationales). J Milburn (talk) 19:21, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
I agree with your idea about combining Patt with his guitar. Unfortunately, none of the Patt pictures on the website show a clear 8-string guitar. My guess is that each was worth 20 thousand USD, which would make him use them for recording but perhaps not when posing with friends.
I shall write a second fair-use rationale for one guitar and delete the other, then. It seemed to me that there was "one photo, one page" language on the uploading form. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:38, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Vanilla book

Displaying the cover allows the reader to understand the meaning of "vanilla" and avoids OR. Without the cover displayed, I would add a sentence about Lester Young and cite the book-cover. Would that be acceptable to you, Reaper Eternal? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:54, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

It's done. I've also renominated the image for deletion. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:06, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
That looks a lot better. Thanks! Reaper Eternal (talk) 17:36, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! You should feel free to object to the inclusion of its details, per WP:RS. However, I think that the vanilla book discussion is useful to the readers, especially if they are guitarists. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:52, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Done! Thanks for your help. I appreciate your taking the time to discuss the issues. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:15, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The Signpost: 24 September 2012

If you could review this really quick

Done. Reliably sourced, NPOV
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Since User:Bouchecl doesn't appear to have edited for a few days, I need a second opinion on User:PParmley's draft before implementing it. The requested edit is for the article Pacific Gas and Electric Company, which PParmley has been steadily improving over the past few months through userspace drafts and requests for implementation at PAIDHELP. The talk page section for the most recent requested change is here. And the requested draft to be implemented is at User:PParmley/PG&E History part 5. draft.

It's a lot simpler than past drafts PParmley has made because it's not replacing or rewriting info, but adding in missing info, namely info about the 1950's to the 1980's, which is completely missing from the current history section in the article. If you could look everything over and leave a comment in the talk page section on whether anything needs to be changed in the draft or whether it's good to be implemented, I would appreciate it. SilverserenC 01:24, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I'll try to look at this today. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:15, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
I gave feedback, almost all praise. Hobbes Goodyear spot-checked the sources, and I have never had cause to second guess his judgment. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:01, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

What do you mean?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended content

I understand you want it "given a rest" but I disagree, given the charge and countercharges. However, I did not understand these remarks:


It is unconstructive for you to post this template,
which invites somebody to block you. Neither Malleus nor other non-administrators can block you: I know; I've tried."

Why would filing an Arbcom request notice be a invitation to block and what does whether anyone can block, matter for posting the standard arbitration notice? Alanscottwalker (talk) 15:58, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi Alanscottwalker,
So you think that this is worth NYBrad's time? Elen's? If I want Elen's time wasted, I should be the first to drive her up the wall, thank you.
Review the template's output, which includes the invitation "block user".
Straight men get paid more than buffoons, and so (not minimizing my income) I omit the customary wink, wishing that most readers will eventually chuckle.
Sometimes a koan can diffuse ill-will and bewilderment, even if en ko rarely defuses explosive devices or situations.
This is not a situation.
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:17, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for your comments on the arbitration request, I shall take them to heart. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:16, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
No problem, Mark.
I have tremendous respect, even affection for you as an editor, as I do for Malleus, and my main concern has been that everything is okay in personal life.
If I see an editor who seems to be having trouble, I have several times invited the editor to call me, day or night. But this is not one of those times.
Just take it easy, and don't read too much at arbitration. This will pass, soon. :::You have done enough explaining what happened and apologizing. Malleus doesn't hold grudges, and I hope you two will cooperate again. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:22, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
I appreciate your words here, very good advice. I hope this will pass soon, so we can all get back to doing what we do best. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:35, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Say my name and like the Devil I appear. Srsly, I hope you are right and we'll see these two editors working together again in the future. And you could point Alanscottwalker at Template:User-multi/template#Other_user_information_templates if encouraging him to pick a better one. Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:38, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Your slightest wish ... --RexxS (talk) 00:52, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
"Mother Earth is pregnant for the third time, for you'll have knocked her up.". Listen! Be not afraid Kiefer.Wolfowitz has seen enough bollocks flying from poles for this life-time.
Indeed I don't hold grudges, haven't really got the memory for it. I think the proposed ArbCom case is quite simply ridiculous, I have no intention of taking part in it, and I'd advise Mark to ignore it as well. We had a minor disagreement, water under the bridge. I certainly won't be losing any sleep over it and neither should Mark. I would though like to see Bongwarrior's bollocks flying from a flag pole, but that's just me. Malleus Fatuorum 22:53, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for not holding a grudge, hope I run into you at FAC sometime. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:57, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
Bollocks flying from polls and phalluses penetrating Mother Earth do not seem to be efficacious as fertility rituals, unless one wishes to farm rocks. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:03, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Fair play

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Greetings friend. It would be great to see more thoughtful consideration from you when you feign interest in an important site-wide discussion. I know when you are feigning because I know what you are capable of; and I weigh that against your edits. Cutting to the chase, I'd like you to reduce the text wall you added here which detracts, to a concise statement regarding your point. I hope to hear from you or simply see this reduction soon, if you are around. I appreciate your understanding. 76Strat String da Broke da (talk) 04:07, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

I guess you are not around, no problem. I'll see if I can help you; it is a time sensitive matter. 76Strat String da Broke da (talk) 04:41, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
Notice that the Westminster Catechism does not use the words "professionalism" or "civility" but is a reliable guide to proper communication. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:12, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
I am getting a crash course on the matter. Do you think the Bible book of Psalms could help us guide by our moral compass as we discuss these important questions that are before ArbCom? 76Strat String da Broke da (talk) 08:17, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
Psalm 109 [1] does have a dramatic effect. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:09, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 01 October 2012

Guitars: Tunings and chords

Regular tunings

I made the images File:Tritone in the chromatic circle.png, File:Augmented chord in the chromatic circle.png, and File:Diminished seventh chord in the chromatic circle.png for use in place of the image of the chromatic circle in the regular tunings section. Hyacinth (talk) 06:06, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Geometry of repetitive, regular guitar-tunings

You are a beautiful human-being, Hyacinth!
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 06:22, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. Would you be interested in a similar picture for all fourths, all fifths, and new standard tunings? Hyacinth (talk) 01:52, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
The tunings you mentioned are not associated with regular polygons, so that they would be messy. Maybe you could find a good-looking spiral for the non-repetitive regular tunings...?
There are regular tunings that are not discussed. It would be interesting to have symmetric-star pictures for the "unison" (a big dot at the C note), half-note (a regular 12-gon), and whole-note (a regular hexagon) tunings. Sethares states that these tunings are less interesting, although it is possible to play e.g. major chords in the whole-note tuning. An article on regular tunings could mention them briefly, and illustrate them. Wikipedia has an article calling "unison" tuning ostrich tuning.
Sethares also discusses augmented-fifths and sixths tunings, perhaps because he composes electronic music. All-fifths C-G-D-A-E-B already exceeds the range of guitars (perhaps even with Gary Goodman's Octave4Plus strings ...). I can briefly mention the really weird tunings in a separate section in the regular-tunings spin-off article.
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:36, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Hi Hyacinth! Your drawings look even better on a MacBook Pro! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:53, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Non-repetitive regular guitar-tunings

See File:All fifths tuning in the chromatic circle.png, File:All fourths tuning in the chromatic circle.png, and File:New standard tuning in the chromatic circle.png. Hyacinth (talk) 23:13, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Lefty–righty tunings: Ordering the notes
These are very good, once again!
From graphs to directed graphs?
A confession: I scratched my head—waiting for the morning coffee to caffeinate my neural network—to see the same note-sequence in all-fourths and all-fifths tunings.
Then I remembered, duh! The all-fifths and all-fourths tunings are righty-lefty inversions, so that one reverses the order of the sequences. I had planned to write more about righty-lefty tunings, following Sethares, but your diagram illustrates the importance of such inversions.
Perhaps one could replace the edges with arcs/arrowss? Arcs/arrows would make the illustrations self-explanatory.
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 07:54, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

A new spin-off article

The regular-tunings section has grown so that it can be a spin-off article, and has been moved to regular tunings. In the original article, I shortened the guitar tunings#Regular to be in summary style.
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:36, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

A good-article collaboration?

Regular tunings
Who would like to help improve this article to GA status?
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 14:04, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Take Five: All-fifths tuning for orchestral-instruments

You have new message/s Hello. You have a new message at Gilderien's talk page.

--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 19:00, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

A thoughtful and courteous discussion took place at the WikiProject Music Theory. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:48, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Infobox: Not too shabby

Major thirds
Augmented chord in the chromatic circle.png
For every major-thirds tuning, the consecutive open-notes are separated by four semitones, and so three strings cover the twelve semitones of the octave.
Aliases All thirds
Interval Major third
Semitones 4
Example(s) E-G-c-e-g-c'-e'


Other instruments Seven-string guitar
Repetition After 3 strings
Advantages Reduced hand-stretching: major and minor chords on 2 consecutive frets
Disadvantages Reduced range on 6 strings
Left-handed tuning Minor sixths tuning
Associated musician
Guitarist Ralph Patt
Regular tunings (semitones)
Trivial (0)
Minor thirds (3)
Major thirds (4)
All fourths (5)
Augmented fourths (6)
New standard (7, 3)
All fifths (7)
Minor sixths (8)
Guitar tunings

For your viewing pleasure. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:54, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Major-thirds tuning: A gallery

An illustration of minor, major, and seventh chords for A, B, C
Illustrations for the article "major-thirds tuning", additional illustrations, and a basic chord-dictionary for major-thirds tuning are available in a PDF document at the Wikimedia Foundation.

The good, ...

Major-thirds tuning: Avoiding the mind- and tendon-debilitating chaos of standard tuning!
The fingerboard is covered by four-finger segments, reducing finger-stretching. 
Chords may be shifted three strings, just changing the octave. 
Inverting chords is easy. 
Notes and chords may be shifted diagonally. 
Major and minor chords may be played on three consecutive strings on two consecutive frets. 
A progression of three chords in major-thirds tuning. 

..., the bad, and the ugly!: The CAGED syndrome

Let us quote from Guitar chords:

Notice that the shapes are different for each of these so-called major chords. In truth, none of these chords are major chords, according to the definitions taught in music for other instruments: No wonder guitarists have difficulty discussing music!

Worse, for each of these chords, there are three other shapes that must be learned, according to the position on the fretboard.

Trying to play a C7 in standard tuning will put you in physical therapy.

Playing in standard tuning cripples the mind (and often the body) and its teaching should be criminalized.

(after E. W. Dijkstra's remark on COBOL)

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:36, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Ralph Patt, inventor of major-thirds tuning

DYK for Ralph Patt

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:03, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Good-article nomination: Review of Ralph Patt

Ralph Patt

I have begun the GA review. Cheers! Reaper Eternal (talk) 18:00, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi Reaper Eternal!
I noticed that you'd begun, and it brought me great pleasure---following delayed dinner after our daughter was crying and then only able to sleep on me and now has awoken hungry---so my dinner is further delayed!
I agree with your comments. I'm disappointed that I had not caught the syntax snafu in the lede. I shall have to learn about notes and references. Geometry guy and Malleus had tried previously to teach me; I think Malleus's page has had a recent discussion that could serve as a tutorial.
As always, best regards, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:04, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
It's actually not that difficult, and I can do that part if you would like. Basically, you use two reference lists, one with {{Reflist|group="note"}} and the other would remain the standard {{Reflist}}. For what is currently Ref 3, you would write as <ref name="whatever" group="note">...</ref>. For all the other references, you simply would not use the group parameter. Reaper Eternal (talk) 20:51, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Hey, I know you've been busy, but could you give me a timeline on when you'll get back to my review? Thanks! Reaper Eternal (talk) 18:12, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your patience, Reaper.
I finished what I want to change. I should wait a day and proofread it for new typos, and make sure that the syntax is English. :)
I want to keep the Williams death-notice as a secondary source for the date of death and as a secondary source for The Vanilla Book, which cites Patt's description; it gives the cause of death. The Death Notice source uses the USA's Social Security database of deaths, and at least one similar site gives the same information, and so this does not seem problematic to me; in principle, for 1500 USD I could get the database, or I could beg somebody from Oregon or the BLP projects to provide a more precise source---which would also be difficult to check. Alternatively, we could remove the death date and the cause of death, but these seem standard for biographies. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:24, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Repetitive tuning

Category:Repetitive guitar-tunings

A category led to an article, so lemons do make lemonade

Category:Repetitive guitar-tunings, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 21:25, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Nominator's rationale: No clear inclusion for what's "repetitive". Is EADGBE "repetitive" because it has two E's? Repetitive tuning doesn't have an article. This seems completely arbitrary and non-defining. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 21:25, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Oppose. Repetition is discussed in the articles with reference to William Sethares's and other reliable sources. For example, unison tuning CCCCCC, major-thirds tuning E-G♯-c-e-g♯-c', augmented fourths tuning BFBFBF, cittern tuning CGCGCG, etc. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:46, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

The discussion continued....

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Do not get disillusioned

The work you are doing looks to me to be valid for the encyclopaedia. We simply suffer form the wisdom of crowds not always being true wisdom. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 10:16, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. (TPH may be a crowd of one!)
Hyacinth has a lot of experience on Wikipedia, and his cat (if he has one) has forgotten more about music than I'll never know. He's made a lot of contributions to articles and has provided a lot of personal help and kindnesses to me, also.
I think that the issue justly raised by the possible-neologism template is better addressed by a discussion of WP:OR/Synthesis policy. (I had hesitated to write the article because of my own concerns about Synthesis; I wrote the introductory paragraph to help the reader per WP:IAR, even though there are no known references sufficiently abstract to cite for that paragraph. Well, now the paragraph is removed, and the world continues....)
Thanks for the kind note and 'attaboy!
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:29, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Repetitive tuning

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Guitar chord

A barnstar for you!

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
For your efforts to date in improving Guitar chords. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:11, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, Dr. Blofeld!
This means a lot coming from an expert on guitar chords! :)
Did you know that Adrian Belew is from Covington, Kentucky?
Best regards, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:48, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

"She will outstrip all praise, And make it halt behind her."

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:06, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Horticulture: Nearing harvest

Just butting in to say I've noticed (and been really pleased by) the changes in you, as well. So have others. How's the "fruit" doing? Pesky (talk) 08:45, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Well. The fruit is ripe for the picking, but as a Rastafarian I must wait for it to fall from the tree. ;D Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:40, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Tim Minchin
Heh! Well, judging from personal experience in the issues, don't hold your breath! Meanwhile, this link is one you should keep. It may stop insanity. (Adding: besides which, the guy is an awesomely talented musician.) Pesky (talk) 10:04, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
I can't quite recall how I ended up here, but thanks, Pesky for that introduction to Tim Minchin. I'd never heard of him. Bielle (talk) 01:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


I shall be away for a few days. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 06:51, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Wheeeee! Pesky (talk) 06:51, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
I need sleep. My wife and daughter are awesome! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:17, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
Gods and all Good Things bless the baby girl :o) What are you calling her? Pesky (talk) 04:32, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Statue of the Greek Goddess Diana in Lviv, Ukraine.
Diana watches over Lviv.
My wife was so very happy that when I called our unborn daughter "Little Honey" when I started talking to her that "Little Honey" is her nickname. ;)
"Diana" honors a mathematician who catalyzed my writing my wife, on her birthday it turned out; I am happy that "DiaNA" also recognizes with my wife, who is a geneticist. Diana is also international and mythologically a strong woman.
"Sandra" honors my mother's best friend and our neighbor, whose house has always been open to me and my family. It is a feminization of Alexander, and so means "she who rules men (andros)". She is ruling me, already! :D It also connotes Cassandra, "she who ensnares men", and of course the beautiful prophet who maintained her integrity and told Apollo that she was not interested; may she have greater serenity to shut her mouth when she knows she is right but others are not ready to listen than her father!
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:07, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


Genuine barnstar.jpg The Genuine Barnstar
KW, I present this barnstar in commemoration of the recent birth in your family. Petaluma, California was the center of the universe for Jewish socialist chicken ranchers 100 years ago. That was the environment where my father-in-law was born. That's where I took this photograph. Thank you for all that you do for Wikipedia, and I bid you peace. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:44, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, dear Jim!
We're very tired but my wife and daughter are doing great!
Warm regards, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:19, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
I was so tired that I forgot to note that "barn" means "child" in Swedish, so your award was---to sound like Frenchie in "Small Time Crooks" as she finished the first letter in the dictionary---apposite!
Cheers, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:03, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

For the little one

Bernhard Plockhorst - Schutzengel.jpg Blessings
May she be happy;

May the spirits of Love and Laughter walk alongside her all her life;
May she walk with them when the path is smooth and light;
May they take her by the hand and guide her when the way is unclear or the going is rough;
May they carry her if she tires or stumbles;
May they teach her spirit to take wings. Pesky (talk) 04:55, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Pesky!
That is beautiful!
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:46, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
This is great! Congratulations to you and your wife Kiefer! Ryan Vesey 13:49, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Give her some cuddles from me :o) Pesky (talk) 06:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


Father holding daughter in swaddling clothes
Kiefer.Wolfowitz holds his newborn baby daughter.

I saw your mention of your news on Drmies's talk page. Congratulations to you also! LadyofShalott 00:53, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, my Lady! :)
Congratulations! All the best! We had our 3rd (grandchild) last month :)...Modernist (talk) 00:54, 1 8 August 2012 (UTC)
Best wishes to your children and congratulations to you. I think that grandchildren add years to their grandparents' lives---more than offsetting the years lost due to the stressors and sleep-deprivation of the grandparents' becoming parents, first! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Just got back off hols and seen your news. Congratulations - daughters are wonderful (I have three). --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:14, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
    Thank you, Elen! I am so happy that we were lucky enough to have a daughter first! She will mature faster and help her mom to keep me in line! :) Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
    • Ha, good werk, Elen--I screwed up on the third one, which turns out to be of the male persuasion. Drmies (talk) 02:29, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
      Thanks Drmies! I had lost count of your children. Perhaps you once counted your son before he was born? Congratulations to you and your wife, and give extra hugs to your daughters, who finally have a little brother to dress up! :)10:00, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Congrats, Kiefer!! --Dylan620 (I'm all ears) 01:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, so much Dylan! :) Warm regards, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:00, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Whoa Kiefer, you procreated! Congratulations! Nothing beats the very first one--but I have to say that I thought that number three wouldn't move as much, and then he came out, and I still well up thinking about it. After two girls we now have a boy, and I promise to raise them all as manly as possible. My best and much love to you and Mrs. Wolfowitz, and to junior of course. Now get some sleep, as much as possible. Call me if you need anything. ;) Drmies (talk) 01:57, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
    Thanks again Drmies! The first days were trying on me, and even on the Mrs. Wolfowitz, whom (having thrived despite my efforts) I'd never seen cry before. She'd at most teared when watching "The Thornbirds", etc. I wasn't allowed to stay overnight the first two nights, and the first night our daughter was awake almost the whole night---surveying her new kingdom! :)
  • Congrats to you! Dennis Brown - © Join WER 02:00, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
    Thanks, Dennis! :) Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:00, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
    Please see Father. Dennis Brown - © Join WER 12:49, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
    Mrs. KW and I are very touched and flattered and humbled by your edit, Dennis! Thanks so much! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
    Objectively, there is no doubt it adds depth, emotion and quality to the article. I'm just happy for your contribution in helping me improve that article. Dennis Brown - © Join WER 00:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
  • How wonderful, another new life (after the daughter of Khazar and the son of Drmies), there is nothing more precious, and nothing as revolutionary as the first time (days, weeks ...) together, enjoy every minute with your ladies! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:37, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
    My world has been turned upside down, happily, as you predicted, Gerda! Thanks for the thoughts! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
  • congratulations from me too! Sasha (talk) 20:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
    Thank you very much, Sasha! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
  • She's beautiful Kiefer! Ryan Vesey 13:36, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
    Thanks so much, Ryan! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Support .. errr .. I mean - Congratulations KW!! Absolutely beautiful. Always so great to see such beauty and wonder amid the noise and haste of WP. — ChedZILLA 14:09, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
    Thanks so much for the good wishes and appreciation of our daughter! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Aaaahhhh, she's gorgeous! Pesky (talk) 07:58, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
    Thanks again! I'm blushing on her behalf! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Congratulations to the both of you! WormTT(talk) 08:06, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
    Thanks so much David! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
  • So cute! God bless you and your family. FeydHuxtable (talk) 16:22, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
    Thank you FeydHuxtable! "Meditation on the chance which led to the meeting of my mother and father is even more salutary than meditation on death." Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:08, 30 August 2012 (UTC)


Schnuller.JPG A binky for your little one
Looks like you'll need a few of these! Congratulations on your newest family member! SarahStierch (talk) 20:48, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much, Sarah!
I've already had use of the dummy/pacifiers. I've had to bite down really hard when she doesn't want to sleep at 3 a.m.! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:52, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
That's why God gave us bourbon. FWIW, we never used pacifiers, though at ages 3 and 6 they make me change my mind. That's a nice photo, Kiefer. It's an indescribable feeling, isn't it. Enjoy, and make sure you teach her rock and roll--they don't do that in school. Drmies (talk) 05:00, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
She seems to enjoy Barney's songs the most, and listening to running water. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:02, 4 October 2012 (UTC)


Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg tuning
Thank you for quality articles on tuning and mathematicians, even fictitious ones, for tuned comments to well-wishers, and for striving for serenity when you are "right but others are not ready to listen", - you are an awesome Wikipedian! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:43, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much!
I should clarify that I just copy-edited the article on Mikhail Kadets, which was written by Sodin ("Sasha"), on whose articles its always a pleasure to work. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:16, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
I used to play dobro in an open D tuning, tuned down a step to C (CGCGCE I believe). Down tuned to make it sound a little "sloppier" for blues. For some odd reason, I found it quite comfortable although I'm guessing that is not a common tuning for slide. That was back in my younger days, before the tendons went bad. Dennis Brown - © Join WER 00:21, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
I love the sound of Dobro (resonator) guitar and its depiction on the Dire Straits album, Brothers in Arms, one of my favorites. Sorry to hear about your pains. I wish I had written major thirds tuning earlier, to save your tendons! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:27, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Started before I could read, irregular gigs from 16 up until I was 40, in the finest dives and holes in the wall America has to offer, mainly blues and country music. The tendon damage was well earned, although apparently irreparable as I've seen a dozen specialists. And I am a Fender man, customized "93 Telecaster + Hot Rod Deluxe or Laney LC50, plus other toys from the 60-70s, and keys, bass, etc. I had my time, I have no regrets. Dennis Brown - © Join WER 10:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

File:Grooveshark screenshot of King Crimson work.png

I've uploaded the screenshot you sent me. Since you know better than I what its intended use is, I'll leave placing the image to you. Cheers, Sven Manguard Wha? 01:39, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Oh, wow... congratulations on the baby! Sven Manguard Wha? 02:39, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your help with the file and especially for your congratulating me!  :)
Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:23, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks again, Sven. It seems that that image gets 30 viewers a day, which is substantial given its fair-use restriction to only Grooveshark. The uploading does seem to have been useful. Thanks again for all of your help. You are a great editor! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:29, 26 August 2012 (UTC)