User talk:Kyoko/Archive7

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Kyoko's talk page / la page de discussion de Kyoko

I have the flu, so I'm not feeling at my best right now. Despite that, I'm too addicted to Wikipedia to stay away. Please understand if I don't respond to your message immediately or if I sound irritated.
Welcome to my talk page!

Messages from January 2006 - July 2006
Messages from August 2006 - September 18, 2006
Messages from September 19, 2006 - October 15, 2006
Messages from October 16, 2006 - October 29, 2006
Messages from October 29, 2006 - November 4, 2006
Messages from November 5, 2006 - November 14, 2006
Messages from November 15, 2006 - December 2, 2006

I love seeing that little bar that says "You have new messages."

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I will ordinarily answer on your talk page, unless requested to do otherwise. Thank you!


Re : Regardless of any differences in opinion...

I fear I am sounding far too reactionary or hostile. That being said, I think that any struggle, any dance along the edge of the knife, makes something stronger. I could apply that to Esperanza, assuming it survives, or Wikipedia, either way. I could apply it to you or to me. I gained my faith in a higher power when I tried to kill myself and the gun jammed. I can understand how some Esperanzans want to reach out to people who need help or at least a kind word, and THAT part of the program only a lunatic would say needs to be deleted.

But no matter. Just as others have convinced me by their actions that they are what they are, you have convinced me by yours that there is still nobility or goodness in the project. I have no images of mountains or uplifting poetry (although I could easily write some), merely my honest thanks for your words and the hope that my own give you the strength to perservere. I burn too bright to surrender to darkness, and so do you. --Elaragirl ||||||Talk|Count 17:41, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Aye, och. Just a quick word to say that it's good to see you back, and that I was impressed by the maturity of your comments at the MFD - something there just isn't enough of, lamentably. Cheers, Moreschi 18:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


I'm sorry your pages were blanked. I didn't do it, though, but I think I know who did it! Hope you believe me and we can still stay friends. Randfan 23:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for trusting me and I most certainly will not let it happen again. I thik I know who did it (let's just say he isn't one of my best...friends) so I'll make sure he doesn't go on. It might have been revenge of some kind, I don't know. Anyways our comunity has only a few computers, all sharing the same IP, so it won't be haard to keep an eye onhim. Randfan 12:48, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
The few computer thing is kind of a blessing, now I can monitor if he goes on any more (it's at a public place, obviously, so I can make sure other people keep an eye out for him). Don't worry, I won't do anything serious. Randfan 00:23, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


Thank you, it's been a tough day.
It's okay, as long as you understand. Some of the less considerate idiots in my class think I'm just insane, whereas the more intelligent ones understand... and still think I'm insane. At least I have my friends to support me. I'm sure that I already said this, but especially during dark times, friends are the most valuable thing you can have. Thanks for understanding. I'm going to sleep now, that will rest my mind (somewhat). Good night. Fredil Shadows of Darkness 02:47, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

fact messup

Sorry, I checked my map yesterday and the Phillipines is just north of the equator. Have you been anywhere in the southern hemisphere? AstroBoy 05:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC) >(←watch the signature, it's dangerous...)

Something funny for you :)

Did you know that you're among the 100 most popular people on Wikipedia? Or, at least, that's what this says... you're #52! I'm friends with somebody famous! :) riana_dzasta 11:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Hooray! I know a popular, famous person. And I can see why you are sopopular. Randfan 12:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Editor Review

I did indeed respond to your editor review. I think you are an excellent contributor (way better than me) and that you are going through a period where it's always easiest to blame yourself for anything that goes wrong in life. In any event, I hope to read more articles from you soon. smile --Elaragirl ||||||Talk|Count 14:06, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


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Thank you for your support of the Medicine Collaboration of the Week.
This week Myocardial infarction was selected.
Hope you can help…

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Re: Goals of Esperanza?

Thanks for reading my thoughts on that Wikipedia_talk:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Esperanza page. As the only Esperanzan who's commented so far, I'd love to hear more of your point of view. I've had a quick look at the Wikipedia:Esperanza page to compare the rules there with my suggestions. The only main difference I've noticed so far seems to be the issue of self-policing, with these two points quoted off Esperanza's website:

  1. Similarly, Esperanza is not an enforcement or disciplinary body of any kind. There are plenty of outlets for addressing users who act in incivil or other inappropriate ways.
  2. Esperanza does not resolve user conflicts or POV issues, and will not accept requests to do so.

Is there a set procedure for dealing with people who don't qualify for membership, but add Esperanza to their profile anyway? What about members who get into a flame war, and start making inappropriate comments, while claiming that they are speaking on behalf of your community? Is there an official way of stating that their personal statements do not reflect the views of Esperanza? There doesn't seem to be much point in listing any rules if there is no method of enforcement or sanction. (I'm talking about within the group itself - Esperanzans shouldn't be responsible for deciding if fellow Esperanzans are banned or sanctioned by Wikipedia. But can members be suspended for repeated acts of bad faith?)

Also, are there any other goals you believe Esperanza should be aiming for that I haven't listed?

Finally, is there another thread where it would be appropriate for me to post or link to what I wrote, and get some thoughts from other Esperanzans? Or are all these threads still getting read by lurking Esperanzans?

Thanks again for your time! Cheers! Quack 688 16:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughts - I'm editing my spiel and posting it on Wikipedia:Esperanza/Overhaul/Charter - I've tried to add that idea you mentioned about promoting co-operation between Wikis, hope I got it right. Best wishes! Quack 688 03:12, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Talk Page

Is there a set length for your archives? Or do you just archive it randomly? Each of my archives has 50 sections, and I like it that way. Fredil Shadows of Darkness 23:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Randfan content

Sorry for the long heading. And why would people laugh at you? You're probably the kindest, nicest, caring, (insert many other synonyms here), and most sympathetic person I've ever met. You're an inspiration! And, about your "I didn't think you'd do anything violent" comment, may I ask what you were thinking, because I have no idea hat else was implied. No offence. Man, you're cool! Just had to get that off my chest. Randfan 00:37, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind the heading and I would never do that to somebody. Also, I can't believe you have self-estee issues, I know... stuff happened to you, but with being so nice and having so many fans and friends on WP, I don't know how that can happen. (By the way, that was meant to be a good thing, not a sentence about a dark subject, just to let you know in case you misunderstood). Randfan 00:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
By the way, how did we first meet? I would have remembered, but when I first saw you, I knew you were nice, but not this nice! Randfan 00:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
You might want to rename this section so it doesn't use up to lines in your TOC. Randfan 00:55, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Just catchup

Hi Kyoko. This is just to say that although I've been busying myself with other WP stuff, I haven't meant to be neglectful. I hope you're still feeling that life is getting better, bit by bit. Recoveries are painful and the inevitable setbacks can be demoralising. I was so glad you found time to alert us to E@L's need. Hoping that all your WP experiences are positive ones. Itsmejudith 00:59, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Ditto! If anybodies does it's you ad E@L. I'm sorry for what happened in your past and hope that something really, eally good will happen in the future (hopefully soon). If good things happen to good people, than you have a lot comin' your way! Randfan 01:19, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Resilient Barnstar.png The Resilient Barnstar
After being all that you've been through, you desrve this. It perfectly describes you! Randfan 01:22, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh, no I'm not getting stressed about WP. I'm back in the thick of some real controversies but, I hope, acting in a consistently positive way and working for the good of the 'pedia. NPOV disputes are hard work, though, and soon I will go back to just wikifying for a bit. I liked Randfan's comments. I don't think particularly that good things happen to good people; they happen to everyone - exactly at the moment that they're least expecting them. If you are in the mood to read a nice book by any chance there are lots I could recommend, and there have been recommendations in the coffee lounge before. Just a thought. Itsmejudith 01:28, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
No problem at all if no reply. War and Peace sounds like an excellent choice. I started it but abandoned it (like lots of people do), will pick it up again some time. I always hated writing about books but later came to like it in a way, although I find it does change the way I read. Enjoy your reading. Itsmejudith 01:47, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

My archives

No, no that's fine. But thanks so much for offering, you're so sweet! I was referring to replying to everyone, actually: so many people wrote me I am utterly overwhelmed! And I'm OCD, I need to do my archives myself :-)
I sent you an e-mail, verdict is exactly what I thought. Relieving, really, now I can say for certain that's what it is. *sigh of relief*Editor at Large(speak) 04:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


Your userpage states that you are a member, so please list yourself on Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Participants, which was merged with the participants list of WP:CLINMED.--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 20:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Editor review

Hey Kyoko, sorry about the late reply to your message - good God, I'm actually developing a message backlog. What's going on?!! Anyway, I'm glad you appreciated my review, and thanks for your kind note. I know that you may not enjoy AfD, so I don't encourage you towards that direction - if you don't enjoy it, it's REALLY stressful. I do think that you should give peer review and featured article candidates a go, though, for the reasons I stated in your review. Take care of yourself - I hope you're feeling better? xx riana_dzasta 16:39, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Ask away, my e-mail is on my userpage (unfortunately - I just got a really bizarre e-mail from somebody I don't know). riana_dzasta 17:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Replied. riana_dzasta 18:05, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


I might be around Commons. --Fang Aili talk 17:35, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

You deserve the most thanks of all, and I'm sure I don't need to say why. Although you're probably sick of hearing this now, thank you for being supportive during my times of need, and remember that I'll always be here for you. Don't worry about me; I won't do anything drastic and I can take care of myself (somewhat). Fredil Shadows of Darkness 01:35, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Courtesy message

You're in the list of users that I respect, on my userpage. I don't harbour any bad feelings over what happened three weeks ago at all. Will (Tell me, is something eluding you, sunshine?) 21:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't have a list of two thousand users under friends, it would appear to be too love-bombish, so I reserve the friends section for really special friends, and less special friends go in the respect section. Will (Tell me, is something eluding you, sunshine?) 22:53, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, if I respect someone, then they're my friend. Will (Tell me, is something eluding you, sunshine?) 23:07, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks (breast health, feminism)

I appreciate your comments and support, especially as a new user. Hope I have the hang of replying now! Mgoodyear 22:56, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

And now thanks again for spotting the personal vandalism. Some vandals clearly don't like being called out, but if we don't stand up to them, they win. Mgoodyear 19:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
More research on prevention I suspect is necessary. Greetings from Halifax. Mgoodyear 20:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Saying Hi

Hello. I know you may not know me, but I'm a friend of Ed's. Anyways, I saw your name on his page, and decided to see your page. I read your clinical deppresion thing on Windows Live Spaces, and I just wanted to say that you were really brave to undergo that stuff—or as I like to put it, crap. I also saw that you've visited Utah. Good job, we are the best state in the Union :P Just kidding, but seriously... well, I hope you recover! Cheers! The RSJ ¿Qué? 01:44, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for replying, and of course I don't mind being called "The RSJ," why would I have it on my sig :D Anyways, thanks again - The RSJ ¿Qué? 22:42, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I almost forgot!

Colour change

What was that colour called? I liked it. Fredil Shadows of Darkness 21:53, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, all right. Thanks :P Fredil Shadows of Darkness 01:54, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Kyoko, I love your color change to your user page. Why the sudden change? Bearly541 03:27, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
LOL, everything has a symbol. Happy Turkey Day! Do you have a Turkey Day in Canada? Bearly541 02:16, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
I like it as well. Purple is a very calming colour. Will (Tell me, is something eluding you, sunshine?) 12:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
LOVE IT! Very calming and you, not saying I know you, just that it seems like it's what you are....or something.... Any ways, it's great! Cheers! —Randfan!! 02:45, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


I still think the merge idea you had was a good one. The more radically you change Esperanza the less likely someone can accuse the organization of doing nothing. Concordia had admirable goals (but abominable management and poor public relations capability). I think incorporating the ideals they had about civility and working together would be a good way to expand Esperanza to more of Wikipedia in a useful, encyclopedia building fashion. The Harmonious Editing Club and the Kindness Campaign, on the other hand, seem a bit too narrowly focused to benefit much from such a broad-based merge. Not sure where things will go from here, but I thought it was a good idea. --ElaragirlTalk|Count 15:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I agree. The MfD's currently dismembering Esperanza are not giving the organization enough time to get it's act together. Unfortunately, it seems to be proceeding apace. There's not much many of us can do, as it would be blatantly hypocritical to start defending the very programs we said needed to go, but more time is probably needed. I tried to point that out on the Coffee Lounge MfD but was pretty much ignored. It's times like this when a Deletionist Cabal would actually come in handy to prevent the lynching of miscellania like this. --ElaragirlTalk|Count 15:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


Hi Kyoko, I've left an review for you. Please stick around :) I know that sounds a little hypocritical, but you do a fantastic job in the most important parts of Wikipedia, and I value your work. I might not be editing, but I still read :) Pursey 19:09, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

More Wikiphilosophies

This user is a Reviewist, and wishes Wikipedia spent more time working on Deletion Review and RfA than those pesky encyclopedia articles.


This user is a Wikifist, and could care less about all these inclusionist or deletionist thingies, as long as the article is formatted according to the Manual of Style. --ElaragirlTalk|Count 00:21, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

You are Welcome

You are welcome Kyoku, you have been a strong "asset" to the wikipedia community. Also I hope your depression settles down...Have a nice day.__Seadog 14:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

You helped choose Rosetta Stone as this week's WP:AID winner

Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive.
This week Rosetta Stone was selected to be improved to featured article status.
Hope you can help.
AzaBot 16:35, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Opera articles

Couldn't help might like to check us out at the Opera Project. There are some good people to collaborate with and some helpful ideas on that page. Cheers, Moreschi 18:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Welcome! Rousseau and Lully, right? That era of French opera is NOT my speciality, to say the least - for future reference, I do know a bit more about English opera of this period - Purcell, Blow, Handel, etc - but you might like to talk to Folantin and Makemi, who know more about this than I do and are also great guys/girls. Cheers, Moreschi 19:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


I have added the comment I made to Elara's page to a a subpage of my own, so I'm not concerned about any intrusion of privacy. I do not agree with editor review, so I will not be commenting on it, but I wish you well with it. And you have my deepest, deepest sympathy regarding your recent depression, and I sincerely hope you come out the other side of that black, black abyss.

On the subject of Esperanza though, as I have been made very aware by other editors, including Elaragirl, and as I have noticed myself by perusing the member list, not all Esperanzans can be tarred with the same brush. I could never, for example, accuse Essjay on working on Esperanza at the expense of the Encyclopedia, or Angela of being completely against Wikipedian norms, or Kirill Lokshin of not contributing enough. :D And I would not want to.

But I would venture to say that these people are not massively involved in Esperanza on a day to day level(I don't know how Essjay ended up admin general, so I may be wrong on this one). And the people who are... let's say they don't have the experience of editing as a Wikipedian. No, that's not right, because I believe that a lot of Esperanzans are perfectly competent editors - but for some reason they switch their caps when they enter Esperanza. What works for Wikipedia suddenly does not work for Esperanza. Wikipedia has virtually no decision makers, only a process to guide consensus by: on Esperanza, this somehow evolved into a seven member council who hold closed meetings on IRC. It is actions like that that cause me to wonder at what point Esperanzans began to believe themslves different from the rest of us. And why they think this is OK.

Esperanza only has 700 members (and I bet under half of them are in any way active) but Esperazans believe they are completely indispensable, and insult the rest of us accordingly. I am "robotic", "cold-hearted", "heartless", "made of stone" and in some way inhumane because I do not agree with Esperanza's existence and do not participate in it. I cannot do anything about this, just like I cannot do anything about Esperanza's constant belief that bureaucracy is good. And that, I think, is the true problem. I can advocate deleting the council, but I cannot stop an Esperanzan thinking it is a marvellous idea. I can insist massive disclaimers be put everywhere saying "ESPERANZA IS NOT BETTER THAN WIKIPEDIA", but I cannot stop an Esperanzan thinking me "made of stone" because I act on my beliefs rather than join an organisation that stands for them. I can change Esperanza, or try to, but I cannot change an Esperanzan. I can edit their pages, but not their hearts.

On a more personal note, I do not recall saying it was arrogant to propose a merger. I did however say it was arrogant to suggest that the Birthday Committee should merge to Esperanza than the other way around, so I assume it was something like that. What I meant by that is that, in my view, if Esperanza, or any other organisation, sets up a program, which is then consequently developed on Wikipedia as a standalone program, then Esperanza should give that program up: its job is done. What others, and I assume you, were suggesting, if someone sets up a program, than it should be brought under the jurisdiction of Esperanza, which I utterly disagree with. Esperanza is, and by its existence always will be, a part of the community, rather than the community itself. If the community undertakes to run its own program, than Esperanza should not muscle in and claim a monopoly, or a merger. Using the Birthday Committee as an example, the letter sent to BDC was dismissive and basically said "We're better at this than you, give in to us". As I have mentioned previously, Esperanza carries far more bureaucratical baggage than any non-Esperanzan would be prepared to tolerate, which is why the Kindness Campaign have consistently turned down the prospect of a merger, and will always do so - they cannot stomach the concept of having decisions made for them. You may notice that they have absolutely no leadership of any kind. Why would they want to merge with an organisation that insists on elections every four months, totally distracting them from the main purpose of their membership? I do not know why The Kindness Campaign was set up, but I strongly suspect it was because Esperanza does not spread Wikilove, only green "e"s, and insists on stifling bureaucracy. You should notice here, that an Esperanzan posted asking if the project was dead, because he couldn't understand why he was seeing no activity on the talkpage - it took a KC member to remind him that KC members carry out their campaign into Wikipedia, rather than build an insulated sub-community.

I suspect this was somewhat longer than you intended, but I really wanted to explain in a compassionate way where I think Esperanza is going so very wrong, and why I think it would take an act of God to change it. I hope He has mercy on all of us. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:46, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


Hypothetical question. Which is most important in keeping Wikipedia running smoothly? Kindness, common sense, civility, using policy correctly, good faith, maintaining humor, or engaging in ridiculous circle-jerks at AN/I? --ElaragirlTalk|Count 22:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd say all of them except the last one :) Will (Tell me, is something eluding you, sunshine?) 23:35, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


Pumpkin Pie.jpg
Meleagris ocellata 1.jpg I wish you a very merry Thanksgiving! Hope you and your family have a magnificent day! So, what are you thankful for? Hooray and happy gormandiziŋ! --Randfan please talk talk to me!
Happy Turkeyday! Cheers! :)Randfan!!
Have a great day! Please respond on my talk page (the red "fan" link in my signature). Cheers! :)Randfan!!


Hope everything's going okay (actually Great!). If you need any help or support just tell me. Cheers! :)Randfan!! 17:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


I think I like it! It doesn't seem as though you got rid of much in the way of content - just reshuffled, right? I think I'll put the thing about Grimani's ownership in a footnote. Cheers, Moreschi 19:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey, you know more about opera than you let on! Anyway, no problemo. Thanks for helping out. Now...can someone please PASS the frigging article? Cheers, Moreschi 20:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Agrippina (opera)

Thanks for your clever solution. / Fred-Chess 20:32, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

My userpage

Do you like my new userpage? The pink reminds me of strawberry ice cream :P Fredil Shadows of Darkness 00:30, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

My name

Hi. When I registered, I used the "Chess" part to remind me I had to take some time off to do something else (like study chess). I like that it is ambiguous, Chess could be my name too. I didn't know that Fred was a character of the musical Chess -- that's nice, more possibilities for ambiguity...

Take care, Fred-Chess 10:37, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Editor Review

Just curious, why are you on editor review? I thought you didn't want to be an administrator? Oh, and please take some tylenol flu/cold. Bearly541 01:09, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Are you sick? If so I hope you feel better and I'll get yousome wiki-medicine! Well, cheers, mate! :)Randfan!! 03:42, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
...or not... :) —¡Randfan! 00:04, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


I think I have something similar, though it's probably the dry winter air (stuffy nose, nosebleeds, general tiredness, etc.). Fredil 17:04, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

fine... I was hoping I could! Well, cheers, mate! :)Randfan!! 17:40, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh, it's okay! It was kind of a joke! Should of put " :) " by it. Hope you feel better soon! Well, cheers, mate! :)Randfan!! 17:48, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Wow, Randfan, that's one helluva sig. Anyway... hope you get better, Kyoko. I know how much it sucks to not be able to go to sales! I had my exams during the pre-summer sales here, and... arrrrgh. A predicament only a woman could understand :) Take care of yourself. riana_dzasta 17:53, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, my mom shops waaaaay too much, so I've been partially converted into a woman, so I think I would understand :D Fredil 18:18, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
I hope you get to feeling better. Cheers!__Seadog 20:35, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
I hope you don't mind me recomending you for help to this Wikipedian and I hpe you feel better soon. Riana, how do you like this, one, it's not too long now, is it? I wuld put the <nowiki> thing around the code, but I don't want to get it so you'll have to edit this page to see it. —¡Randfan! 00:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
This may cheer you up, we (Llama Man, Seadog, and myself) want to make a "Kyoko Barnstar"! Don't try to resist or stop it, because we're are going to do it no matter what, if we want to. Just givin you a heads up. Besides, you, of all people, deserve one! —¡Randfan! 01:30, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Hope you start feeling not like crap :^) better soon! —¡Randfan! 20:51, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Medicine Collaboration of the Week

Star of life2.svg
Thank you for your support of the Medicine Collaboration of the Week.
This week Malaria was selected.
Hope you can help…

NCurse work 13:37, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


Just a quick note to say thanks a bundle for all the help at Agrippina. Much obliged, and good luck with your other projects. See you round! Cheers, Moreschi 15:13, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


Haha, looks like we both posted about Eowbotm on AN/I. My apologies as I did not see your post. Glad to see somebody else is on top of these things! —Lantoka ( talk | contrib) 00:07, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Esperanza Discussion on Governance

You know, it's sweet of you to bring my ideas up at EA, but I think my name invokes images of rage with some of your membership, so maybe you should simply present these ideas as your own.

To be honest, there are a lot of people watching Esperanza right now. I've gotten at least a dozen emails from different people asking me what I "plan to do about it" (as if I had some kind of super power). My advice to them I'll share with you. As long as Esperanza fufills a goal and a purpose in Wikipedia that can't be done without such an organization, it will stay. Too many Esperanzans are trying to defend programs that no one outside of Esperanza uses. Too many of them are resistant to change because they think the original MfD was unfair. And too many of them seem to expect that users will give them the benefit of the doubt. Has the organization changed, yes. But if you want to spread a sense of community, it takes more than mint-colored pages. It takes people who actually reach out to help the Encyclopedia.

If you want to inspire, Esperanza should spend very little time at all on it's own subpages, and it's members should be conspiciously visible on talk, AN, and the Village Pump, with ideas. Preface these with things such as "As an Esperanzan, it would be best for the community if..." and try to counteract the constant problems which wrack the encyclopedia. When many people are worried about increasing amounts of spam, uneasy with the direction policy is going, and unhappy enough to start insane sites like Wikitruth, then what most people see as community may not be the same thing as Esperanza sees as community.

Part of my dismissal of them stems, I think, from the fact that I dragged myself out of my sucicidal and depressed state through sheer force of will, which I have learned that most people cannot do. I know a lot of my commentary on them seems unneccesarily harsh, and I should qualify it by saying I admire several EA people like yourself and Natalya, and I equally dislike several EA people -- but I won't mention who. I don't like attacking people. So I'm left with this.

I'm sorry to ramble all over your talk page, but I had these thoughts on my mind and we've communicated before. --ElaragirlTalk|Count 14:45, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for supporting me during my times of need. Sometimes I feel that here, on Wikipedia, is the only place where I can actually be myself, be accepted by others, be what I can and want to be. In real life, everyone pushes you around and eventually they get corrupted. Here, even though certain people are corrupt and there is policy, it is not as strict as it can be and I have freedom to do what I want to do and be what I want to be. True happiness and friendship is the most important thing that you can have, and you and I both have a lot of it :P Fredil 15:51, 2 December 2006 (UTC)