User talk:Ltwin

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Disambiguation link notification for January 6[edit]

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Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
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Disambiguation link notification for January 19[edit]

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Disambiguation link notification for February 6[edit]

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February 2015 GOCE newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors February 2015 Newsletter
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Drive: Thanks to everyone who participated in January's Backlog Elimination Drive. Of the 38 people who signed up for this drive, 21 copyedited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

Progress report: We were able to remove August 2013 from the general copyediting backlog and November 2014 from the request-page backlog. Many thanks, everyone!

Blitz: The February Blitz will run from February 15–21 and again focuses on the requests page. Awards will be given to everyone who copyedits at least one request article. Sign up here!

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Miniapolis, Jonesey95, Biblioworm and Philg88.

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GOCE March newsletter[edit]

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Blitz: Thanks to everyone who participated in the February Blitz. Of the 21 people who signed up, eight copyedited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

Progress report: The blitz removed 16 articles from the requests list, and we're almost done with December 2014. Many thanks, everyone!

Drive: The month-long March drive begins in about a week. Awards will be given to everyone who copyedits at least one article from the backlog. Sign up here!

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April 2015 GOCE newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors April 2015 Newsletter
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March drive: Thanks to everyone who participated in last month's backlog-reduction drive. Of the 38 people who signed up, 18 copyedited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

April blitz: The one-week April blitz, again targeting our long requests list, will run from April 19–25. Awards will be given to everyone who copyedits at least one article from the requests page. Sign up here!

May drive: The month-long May backlog-reduction drive, with extra credit for articles tagged in December 2013, January and February 2014 and all request articles, begins soon. Sign up now!

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Miniapolis, Jonesey95, Biblioworm and Philg88.

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Pat Robertson[edit]

"Robertson is charismatic, not Pentecostal. These are different movements." I'm surprised at you. This isn't about "movements" -- and Pentecostalism is no longer a movement and hasn't been for decades. Charismatics are Pentecostals who belong to other denominations or churches other than pentecostal denominations. On the Pentecostalism article, "Charismatic" is mentioned 37 times, including: "This initially became known as New or Neo-Pentecostalism (in contrast to the older classical Pentecostalism) but eventually became known as the Charismatic Movement." and "David du Plessis (1905–87) South-African Pentecostal church leader, one of the founders of the Charismatic movement" And the first source on that article gives this definition: "Christians who ... describe themselves as “charismatic Christians”; or (2) they describe themselves as “pentecostal Christians” but do not belong to pentecostal denominations". So, how does Robertson describe himself? This what he said in a source on his article: "in terms of the priesthood of believers and baptism, I'm a Baptist; in terms of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I'm a Pentecostal" So, that's from the "horses mouth". I will wait for your reply before readding it along with the source. One added thing, if you said that he is "charismatic, not Pentecostal", then you should have moved his name to the Charismatic Movement article, instead of just removed it entirely. --Musdan77 (talk) 03:28, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

While its common to use "Pentecostal" and "charismatic" as interchangeable, they are different. Read any scholarly source or material published by the classical Pentecostal and charismatic communities. Lines might have become blurred over the decades, but distinctions still exist. Pat Robertson claims that he is a Baptist, which means he is not a classical Pentecostal but charismatic. Even more, he has advocated over the years doctrines that place him even further from classical Pentecostalism, namely Dominionism. If everyone who is charismatic is also Pentecostal, then we should just merge this article with Charismatic Christianity. Ltwin (talk) 21:09, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Everything that I wrote (and quoted) and that's what you get? Nothing is saying that the terms are "interchangeable" or anything about merging articles (though I hadn't seen that one before and it looks to me like there's hardly any unique material there - but that's a complete other issue). And the article is not "Classical Pentecostalism", it's Pentecostalism. I repeat: Charismatics are Pentecostals who belong to other denominations or churches other than pentecostal denominations. That is not just me saying that. I also quoted from reliable source already used in the article. As well as a quote from Robertson himself. I don't see how there can be a dispute. Think of it this way: there are classifications that come under other classifications (like genres). Charismatic --, classical --, and Oneness -- all come under the banner of Pentecostalism. You also didn't respond to my last sentence. Also, Robertson had been on the list for 3 years! You had plenty of time to remove it if you didn't think it should be there, but instead, you decide to wait to revert my reversion. Furthermore, Robertson is listed in the Pentecostalism template (almost 2 years) -- but now that I said that, I suppose you'd want to remove it -- and this time I'd revert you. :) --Musdan77 (talk) 04:28, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
"And the article is not 'Classical Pentecostalism', it's Pentecostalism." Actually, the article is very much about Classical Pentecostalism, which is what most people mean when they say "Pentecostal" or "Pentecostalism" without any other sort of clarification. It even says this is what the article is about in the Lead section. All of the theology, history, and denominations discussed are classical Pentecostal theology, history, and denominations. When charismatic theology or people are mentioned, it's clear that they are distinct from classical Pentecostalism.
You seem to be using "Pentecostal" to be any charismatic Christian who belongs to an historical Pentecostal denomination and "charismatic" for any charismatic Christian who belongs to any other type church that is not historically Pentecostal. So, essentially, the only difference between George O. Wood and Pat Robertson is that Wood has membership in a Pentecostal denomination and Robertson does not.
My understanding of the term "Pentecostal", which as far as I know is still generally accepted, is that a Pentecostal is a member of a classical Pentecostal denomination and/or adheres to classical Pentecostal theology. It's not enough to be a charismatic Christian in the Baptist church or the Episcopal church or the non-denominational community church. Neo-Pentecostals (what are now commonly called charismatics) generally don't believe in initial evidence, whereas classical Pentecostals typically do. Charismatics place less emphasis on tongues than do classical Pentecostals, and they generally have less stringent lifestyle taboos (such as alcohol use).
In my opinion, you have it backwards when you say, "Charismatics are Pentecostals who belong to other denominations or churches other than pentecostal denominations." I would reverse this: Pentecostals are Charismatics who belong to historical Pentecostal denominations or churches. So, you say that Pat Robertson is "Pentecostal" because he is charismatic. I say that Pat Robertson is not Pentecostal because he is JUST charismatic.
In regards to Robertson's quote, I don't discount it. Nevertheless, it doesn't say what you think it does. He is not identifying as a classical Pentecostal. He is saying he is a Baptist with Pentecostal beliefs concerning Pneumatology. This, in common terminology and in regards to the Pentecostal article, makes him a charismatic Christian-not a classical Pentecostal. Ltwin (talk) 08:14, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
P.S. While we're talking, Kathryn Kuhlman should come off this list too since she was not a classical Pentecostal. Ltwin (talk) 08:28, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
The intro sentence should not say "classical Pentecostal" -- and certainly not in bold -- because that is not (and shouldn't be) what the article in whole is about. And you keep repeating that. There's a distinct difference. If "Pentecostals are Charismatics" then the Charismatic article would be the larger one and there would be a template with the title "Part of a series on 'Charismaticism'". Pentecostals are charismatic; they are not (necessarily) Charismatics. Also, the "People" section does not contain any sources. At least I have a source (and I consider it a very good one). --Musdan77 (talk) 15:50, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Classical Pentecostalism has always been what the article is about. Back in 2004, it was clear that this article was about classical Pentecostalism because editors were discussing whether they should describe Pentecostals as a subset of the Charismatic Movement. It has always been about classical Pentecostalism. Even today, it is focused entirely on the beliefs and history of the classical movement. When "charismatic" or neo-charismatics" are mentioned it is in reference to how they relate to or influence or were influenced by classical Pentecostals.
If you are looking for an article that encompasses all of global Pentecostalism and Charismatic Christianity, Wikipedia already has that article. It's called Charismatic Christianity (which is different from Charismatic Movement), which discusses Pentecostals, the Charismatic Movement, and [[Neo-charismatic churches] as a single sector of world Christianity. This is why Charismatic Christianity is shorter because it intentionally directs readers to the more specific articles.
As for sources, the Encyclopedia of Evangelicalism's article for Pentecostalism covers classical Pentecostalism. Charismatics are addressed in the article "Charismatic Movement." In the introduction of 'The New International Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements, the editors write the following explanation of their categorization scheme:
There are two approaches to differentiating between pentecostal and charismatic, one theological, the other ecclesiastical. A theological differentiation can be found especially in the doctrine concerning Spirit baptism (also called the baptism in, or of, the Holy Spirit). It is oversimplified, but perhaps useful, to say that pentecostals subscribe to a work of grace subsequent to conversion, in which Spirit baptism is evidenced by glossolalia (speaking in tongues); for some, this baptism must also follow another act of grace, namely, sanctification. Charismatics, on the other hand, do not always advocate either the necessity of a second work of grace or the evidence of glossolalia as an affirmation of Spirit baptism. Yet both emphasize the present work of the Spirit through gifts in the life of the individual and the church.
Ecclesiastical differentiation is based on denominational affiliation. Thus, pentecostals refers to those participating in classical pentecostal denominations, such as the Assemblies of God, the Church of God (Cleveland, TN), the Church of God in Christ, the United Pentecostal Church, and the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel. Charismatics, on the other hand, refers to persons outside these classical pentecostal denominations but with connections to mainline denominations. Neocharismatics are participants in independent, postdenominational, nondenominational, or indigenous groups or organizations, such as the Vineyard Christian Fellowship.::::
If Pat Robertson attended a Pentecostal church we could say he is a Pentecostal. But to my knowledge he does not and is not a "leader" of classical Pentecostals. Ltwin (talk) 17:56, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Presbyterian Church in the United States of America[edit]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Presbyterian Church in the United States of America you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. Time2wait.svg This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Relentlessly -- Relentlessly (talk) 17:21, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

GOCE June 2015 newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors June 2015 News
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May drive: Thanks to everyone who participated in last month's backlog-reduction drive. Of the 38 people who signed up, 29 copyedited at least one article, and we got within 50 articles of our all-time low in the backlog. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

Coordinator elections: Nominations are open through June 15 for GOCE coordinators, with voting from June 16–30. Self-nominations are welcome and encouraged.

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Lagos Province[edit]

Could you please give your opinion about the deletion proposal of the article concerning Lagos Province, one of the 14 ecclesiastical provinces of the Church of Nigeria? Thank you. [1]Mistico (talk) 15:56, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

GOCE August 2015 newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors August 2015 Newsletter
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July drive: Thanks to everyone who participated in last month's backlog-reduction drive. Of the 24 people who signed up, 17 copyedited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

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Will be taking up a GA review on an article you nominated[edit]

Just wanted to know if you were active (I don't see many edits over the last two months) and will be around the next few days as I've decided to take up the GA review of Presbyterian Church in the United States of America. I should have the beginnings of my review up this weekend. Do let me know. JackTheVicar (talk) 22:05, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

October 2015 GOCE newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors October 2015 Newsletter
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September drive: Thanks to everyone who participated in last month's backlog-reduction drive. Of the 25 editors who signed up, 18 copyedited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

October blitz: The one-week October blitz, targeting requests, has just concluded. Of the nine editors who signed up, seven copyedited at least one request; check your talk page for your barnstar!

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PCUSA GAN[edit]

Hi Ltwin,

Please let me know if you are planning to address what I brought up at Talk:Presbyterian Church in the United States of America/GA2.

Thanks --JFH (talk) 20:35, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry to hear about your health; I'll pray for your recovery. I'll go ahead and close the nomination and you can renominate it when you're able to work on it. --JFH (talk) 01:23, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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Your GA nomination of Presbyterian Church in the United States of America[edit]

The article Presbyterian Church in the United States of America you nominated as a good article has failed Symbol oppose vote.svg; see Talk:Presbyterian Church in the United States of America for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Relentlessly -- Relentlessly (talk) 22:41, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Guild of Copy Editors 2015 End of Year Report[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors 2015 End of Year Report
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Our 2015 End of Year Report is now ready for review.

Highlights:

  • Summary of Drives, Blitzes, and the Requests page;
  • New record lows in the article backlog and on the Requests page;
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Guild of Copy Editors April 2016 Newsletter[edit]

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March drive: Thanks to everyone who participated in last month's backlog-reduction drive. Of the 28 people who signed up, 21 copyedited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

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Disambiguation link notification for May 28[edit]

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Mainline Protestant
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June 2016 Guild of Copy Editors Newsletter[edit]

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Hello everyone, welcome to the June 2016 GOCE newsletter. It's been a few months since we sent one out; we hope y'all haven't forgotten about the Guild! Your coordinators have been busy behind the scenes as usual, though real life has a habit of reducing our personal wiki-time. The May backlog reduction drive, the usual coordinating tasks and preparations for the June election are keeping us on our toes!

May drive: Thanks to everyone who participated in last month's record-setting backlog reduction drive. Of the 29 people who signed up, 16 copyedited at least one article, 197 copyedits were recorded on the drive page, and the copyedit backlog fell below 1,500 for the first time! Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

June Blitz: this one-week copy-editing blitz will occur from 12 June through 18 June; the themes will be video games and Asian geography.

Coordinator elections: It's election time again; how quickly they seem to roll around! Nominations for the next tranche of Guild coordinators, who will serve a six-month term that begins at 00:01 UTC on 1 July and ends at 23:59 UTC on 31 December, opens at 00:01 UTC on 1 June and closes at 23:59 UTC on 15 June. Voting takes place between 00:01 UTC on 16 June and 23:59 UTC on 30 June. If you'd like to assist behind the scenes, please consider stepping forward; self-nominations are welcomed and encouraged. All Wikipedia editors in good standing are eligible; remember it's your Guild, and it doesn't run itself!

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Disambiguation link notification for June 16[edit]

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A barnstar for you![edit]

Tireless Contributor Barnstar Hires.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
Dear Ltwin, thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia, especially your recent improvement of the Christian perfection article. Keep up the good work! You are making a difference here! With regards, AnupamTalk 19:18, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Re:Thank you![edit]

Dear User:Ltwin, I'm glad that you got around to working on it because your edits have substantially improved the article! All the best, AnupamTalk 04:53, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 23[edit]

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Reference errors on 27 June[edit]

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Guild of Copy Editors July 2016 News[edit]

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Hello everyone, and welcome to the July 2016 GOCE newsletter.

June Blitz: this one-week copy-editing blitz ran from 12 through 18 June; the themes were video games and Asian geography. Of the 18 editors who signed up, 11 removed 47 articles from the backlog. Barnstars and rollover totals are located here. Thanks to all editors who took part.

Coordinator elections: The second tranche of Guild coordinators for 2016, who will serve a six-month term until 23:59 UTC on 31 December, have been elected. Jonesey95 remains as your drama-free Lead Coordinator, and Corinne and Tdslk are your new assistant coordinators. For her long service to the Guild, Miniapolis has been enrolled in the GOCE Hall of Fame. Thanks to everyone who voted in the election; our next scheduled one occurs in December 2016. All Wikipedia editors in good standing are eligible; self-nominations are welcome and encouraged.

July Drive: Our month-long July Copy Editing Backlog Elimination Drive is now underway. Our aim is to remove articles tagged for copy-edit in April, May and June 2015, and to complete all requests on the GOCE Requests page from June 2016. The drive ends at 23:59 on 31 July 2016 (UTC).

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Charismatic Christianity WikiProject[edit]

Hi Ltwin, I am reviving the Charismatic Christianity WikiProject and noticed you were active in the past so i am inviting you to come back and help me get it going again. Callsignpink (talk) 13:52, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

@Callsignpink: Sure, I'll do anything I can to help. Ltwin (talk) 04:07, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Guild of Copy Editors September 2016 News[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors September 2016 News
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Hello everyone, and welcome to the September 2016 GOCE newsletter.

>>> Sign up for the September Drive, already in progress! <<<

July Drive: The July drive was a roaring success. We set out to remove April, May, and June 2015 from our backlog (our 149 oldest articles), and by 23 July, we were done with those months. We added July 2015 (66 articles) and copy-edited 37 of those. We also handled all of the remaining Requests from June 2016. Well done! Overall, we recorded copy edits to 240 articles by 20 editors, reducing our total backlog to 13 months and 1,656 articles, the second-lowest month-end total ever.

August Blitz: this one-week copy-editing blitz ran from 21 through 27 August; the theme was sports-related articles in honor of the 2016 Summer Olympics. Of the eight editors who signed up, five editors removed 11 articles from the backlog. A quiet blitz – everyone must be on vacation. Barnstars and rollover totals are located here. Thanks to all editors who took part.

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Minor referencing errors[edit]

There are minor referencing errors in Baptism with the Holy Spirit:

  • There is a Bromiley 2000 in Notes, but Bromiley 2002 in References
  • There is Arrington in References but no such citations in Notes
  • I've fixed the missing anchor in Wurzburger 2007

– Finnusertop (talkcontribs) 00:27, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

The Southern Baptists, the Confederate South, and Evangelicals vs Mainline[edit]

You're probably well-aware of the Southern Baptists, but here – Southern_Baptist_Convention#Divisions_over_slavery – The Northern Baptists split from them on the issue of slavery (and therefore, abolition). Southern Baptists – nowadays – refer to themself, and are referred to as, "Evangelicals", so it's disingenuous to just use the term like a blanket. That would mean granting (at least) one particular denomination the "Evangelical" blanket to hide under, while clouding the truth about their past. The Southern Baptist "Evangelicals" had nothing to do with supporting abolition, but instead, kept it around, using the Bible to justify slavery (which was especially effective, since the Bible does not condemn it, and in some cases, condones it). If one is going to claim "Evangelicals" supported abolition, they ought to specify which, and whom, during which time frame. 3/4 of the Founding Fathers were Anglicans, which was a strong denomination in the North (the Liberals, later the Union), as was the Episcopal Church. Many of these old "Liberal" denominations, which supported abolition, were generally Mainline Protestant, not Evangelical. It wasn't even until almost 30 years after the Civil War (the 1890s) that Evangelicalism gained a real foothold. Now yes, of course there were some Evangelicals who supported abolition, but abolition was largely opposed by the South, and was largely being pushed by the Radical Republicans and Socialists of the North, in the old Republican Party, during their times. That's not to do with Evangelicalism, but rather, political philosophies. Or do you feel you know something I haven't mentioned here? KnowledgeBattle (Talk) | GodlessInfidel ︻╦╤── 21:07, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

@Knowledgebattle: I am aware of the history of the Southern Baptist Convention over slavery. All of the evangelical denominations during the Antebellum period split over slavery: the Baptists, the Presbyterians, and the Methodists. The fact that southern evangelicals accommodated themselves quite well to the South's slave culture is quite well known and studied. Nevertheless, this does not change the fact that it is Evangelicalism that is credited in numerous reliable sources for being a (if not the) impetus to the trans-Atlantic abolitionist movement.
Honestly, yes I do think I know "something" that you haven't mentioned. Namely, the fact that the "old 'Liberal' denominations" you cite as being Mainline were in fact evangelical at this time. As the history section of the Mainline Protestant article points out, during the Civil War Mainline Protestantism was virtually indistinguishable from Evangelical religion. It was only later that liberal theology took over the formerly evangelical institutions that we now know as the Mainline churches.
But I don't expect you to take my word for it. Check out the Encyclopedia of Antislavery and Abolition, which states in the introduction to "Antislavery Evangelical Protestantism", page 42 the following:

Antislavery evangelical Protestantism emerged in Great Britain and the United States in the last quarter of the eighteenth century within an environment of changing theological doctrines. While evangelicalism alone did not cause antislavery, there is little doubt that it contributed significantly to its rise and to a variety of other social reform efforts. The demand for immediate emancipation after 1830 sustained an especially strong link with evangelicalism. Many leading abolitionists employed Biblical language, and evangelical Protestants led the drive to found antislavery organizations. Yet, pronounced divisions within American Protestantism after 1840 revealed that not all evangelicals advocated immediate emancipation. Nevertheless, antislavery evangelicals on both sides of the Atlantic shaped the movement in significant ways. Not only did they draw attention to slavery's immoral nature, but they agitated politically for an end to the international slave trade and for slavery's abolition. In the United States, their involvement in both radical and moderate antislavery efforts subsequently coincided with the collapse of the Second Party System and the increasingly divisive sectionalism that ultimately resulted in the Civil War.

In short, American Protestantism was American Evangelicalism before the late 1800s. Therefore, you can't give "the Mainline" credit for abolitionism without giving credit to evangelicals because they were essentially the same people in the 1850s. I'll leave you with another quote just for some added context, Jason Lantzer, Mainline Christianity: The Past and Future of America's Majority Faith, page 31:

Too, the Second Great Awakening was not just a revival of religion; it was also a launching pad for reforms. In many ways, reformist zeal contributed to the success of the Mainline’s evangelical denominations. Evangelicals not only talked about sin, they sought to identify and eliminate specific sins that affected both individuals and all of society. America’s churches thus became places where the rights of women were discussed, where efforts were launched to reform prisons and asylums, where initiatives were started to create a system of free, public schools, where alcohol was openly condemned, and where slavery (at least in the North) was openly blasted as an abomination against both God and man.

The reform heritage of your "old 'Liberal' denominations" is actually a product of their evangelical heritage. Imagine that. Ltwin (talk) 22:59, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
@Ltwin: I see. Wonderful description on the shift of Evangelical thought over time, and thank you for taking the time to prove it. I didn't realize it when I typed my message to you, but with your response ("Honestly, yes I do think I know 'something'..."), I had to look back at my own message to see what elicited that tone... realized it was my fault, right there with the ending question. Sorry, I have a tendency to type the way I speak, and so now with this reply, I'm trying to be more careful about not sounding like a douche.
So, correct me if I'm wrong (that's probably how I should've phrased it, before), but what I hear you saying is – the old-school Evangelicalism (which is responsible for abolitionism) is what evolved into the modern-day Mainline Protestantism? Is that correct? KnowledgeBattle (Talk) | GodlessInfidel ︻╦╤── 03:03, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
@Knowledgebattle: I think it would be more accurate to say that the dominant 19th century evangelical consensus fragmented into several different trajectories. One part morphed into modern-day liberal or ecumenical Protestantism (and eventually won the fights for institutional control over most of the major US denominations, with the exception of the Southern Baptist Convention). It is interesting that one of the predecessors to the National Council of Churches was an interdenominational organization named the Evangelical Alliance.
Another part morphed into Christian fundamentalism (mainly from the Baptist and Presbyterian churches), while another part morphed into the Holiness Movement and modern-day Pentecostalism (mainly from Methodist backgrounds). It was moderate fundamentalists like Billy Graham who invited the Holiness and Pentecostal churches into the postwar "Neo-Evangelical" consensus that basically represents contemporary mainstream Evangelicalism in the US, such as you see represented by the National Association of Evangelicals or Christianity Today. However, many commentators and researches have noted that we seem to have entered another period of fragmentation in which the Neo-Evangelical consensus no longer appears to be holding evangelicals together—and this at a time when the Mainline denominations appear to be numerically imploding.
I would caution against assuming that contemporary evangelicalism does not have a social justice or social reform component any longer. The Pro-Life Movement should properly be seen as being in continuity with earlier reforming impulses, since it isn't about oppressing women but about saving what they believe to be human lives. Also, evangelicals are heavily involved in anti-human trafficking movements today. Just to name a few.
There is a difference though. 19th-century evangelicals were postmillennial—they believed Jesus Christ would only return to earth after a period of human fostered peace and prosperity (the millennium). Mainliners have retained this postmillennial eschatology, which is why they speak of "the Reign of God" as if its identical to the UN Millennium Development Goals, LOL. 20th-century evangelicals have tended to be (not all of them are) premillennial—they believe Jesus is going to come back before the Millennium and the world will just keep getting worse and worse until he does return. This helps explain why some segments of contemporary Evangelicalism are less engaged in social reform activities than they were in the past.
That was all very simplified LOL. American Protestantism is very complex and not always easily compartmentalized. Evangelicals and Mainline Protestants can appear completely different, but in reality their roots are in the same soil. The United Methodist Church is a great example, since its often described as both mainline and evangelical. Ltwin (talk) 04:08, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Presbyterian Church in the United States of America[edit]

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Guild of Copy Editors December 2016 News[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors December 2016 News
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Hello everyone, and welcome to the December 2016 GOCE newsletter. We had an October newsletter all set to go, but it looks like we never pushed the button to deliver it, so this one contains a few months of updates. We have been busy and successful!

Coordinator elections for the first half of 2017: Nominations are open for election of Coordinators for the first half of 2017. Please visit the election page to nominate yourself or another editor, and then return after December 15 to vote. Thanks for participating!

September Drive: The September drive was fruitful. We set out to remove July through October 2015 from our backlog (an ambitious 269 articles), and by the end of the month, we had cut that pile of oldest articles to just 83. We reduced our overall backlog by 97 articles, even with new copyedit tags being added to articles every day. We also handled 75% of the remaining Requests from August 2016. Overall, 19 editors recorded copy edits to 233 articles (over 378,000 words).

October Blitz: this one-week copy-editing blitz ran from 16 through 22 October; the theme was Requests, since the backlog was getting a bit long. Of the 16 editors who signed up, 10 editors completed 29 requests. Barnstars and rollover totals are located here. Thanks to all editors who took part.

November Drive: The November drive was a record-breaker! We set out to remove September through December 2015 from our backlog (239 articles), and by the end of the month, we had cut that pile of old articles to just 66, eliminating the two oldest months! We reduced our overall backlog by 523 articles, to a new record low of 1,414 articles, even with new tags being added to articles every day, which means we removed copy-editing tags from over 800 articles. We also handled all of the remaining Requests from October 2016. Officially, 14 editors recorded copy edits to 200 articles (over 312,000 words), but over 600 articles, usually quick fixes and short articles, were not recorded on the drive page.

Housekeeping note: we do not send a newsletter before every drive or blitz. To have a better chance of knowing when the next event will start, add the GOCE's message box to your Watchlist.

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators: Jonesey95, Corinne and Tdslk.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:30, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Guild of Copy Editors February 2017 News[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors February 2017 News
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Hello everyone, and welcome to the February 2017 GOCE newsletter. The Guild has been busy since the last time your coordinators sent out a newsletter!

December blitz: This one-week copy-editing blitz ran from 11 through 17 December; the themes were Requests and eliminating the November 2015 backlog. Of the 14 editors who signed up, nine editors completed 29 articles. Barnstars and rollover totals are located here. Thanks to all who took part.

January drive: The January drive was a great success. We set out to remove December 2015 and January and February 2016 from our backlog (195 articles), and by 22 January we had cleared those and had to add a third month (March 2016). At the end of the month we had almost cleared out that last month as well, for a total of 180 old articles removed from the backlog! We reduced our overall backlog by 337 articles, to a low of 1,465 articles, our second-lowest month-end total ever. We also handled all of the remaining requests from December 2016. Officially, 19 editors recorded 337 copy edits (over 679,000 words).

February blitz: The one-week February blitz, focusing on the remaining March 2016 backlog and January 2017 requests, ran from 12 to 18 February. Seven editors reduced the total in those two backlog segments from 32 to 10 articles, leaving us in good shape going in to the March drive.

Coordinator elections for the first half of 2017: In December, coordinators for the first half of 2017 were elected. Jonesey95 stepped aside as lead coordinator, remaining as coordinator and allowing Miniapolis to be the lead, and Tdslk and Corinne returned as coordinators. Thanks to all who participated!

Speaking of coordinators, congratulations to Jonesey95 on their well-deserved induction into the Guild of Copy Editors Hall of Fame. The plaque reads: "For dedicated service as lead coordinator (2014, 1 July – 31 December 2015 and all of 2016) and coordinator (1 January – 30 June 2015 and 1 January – 30 June 2017); exceptional template-creation work (considerably streamlining project administration), and their emphasis on keeping the GOCE a drama-free zone."

Housekeeping note: We do not send a newsletter before every drive or blitz. To have a better chance of knowing when the next event will start, add the GOCE's message box to your watchlist.

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators: Miniapolis, Jonesey95, Corinne and Tdslk.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:21, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message[edit]

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Guild of Copy Editors December 2017 News[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors December 2017 News
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Hello copy editors! Welcome to the December 2017 GOCE newsletter, which contains nine months(!) of updates. The Guild has been busy and successful; your diligent efforts in 2017 has brought the backlog of articles requiring copy edit to below 1,000 articles for the first time. Thanks to all editors who have contributed their time and energy to help make this happen.

Our copy-editing drives (month-long backlog-reduction drives held in odd-numbered months) and blitzes (week-long themed editing in even-numbered months) have been very successful this year.

March drive: We set out to remove April, May, and June 2016 from our backlog and all February 2017 Requests (a total of 304 articles). By the end of the month, all but 22 of these articles were cleared. Officially, of the 28 who signed up, 22 editors recorded 257 copy edits (439,952 words). (These numbers do not always make sense when you compare them to the overall reduction in the backlog, because not all editors record every copy edit on the drive page.)

April blitz: This one-week copy-editing blitz ran from 16 through 22 April; the theme was Requests. Of the 15 who signed up, 9 editors completed 43 articles (81,822 words).

May drive: The goals were to remove July, August, and September 2016 from the backlog and to complete all March 2017 Requests (a total of 300 articles). By the end of the month, we had reduced our overall backlog to an all-time low of 1,388 articles. Of the 28 who signed up, 17 editors completed 187 articles (321,810 words).

June blitz: This one-week copy-editing blitz ran from 18 through 24 June; the theme was Requests. Of the 16 who signed up, 9 editors completed 28 copy edits (117,089 words).

2017 Coordinator elections: In June, coordinators for the second half of 2017 were elected. Jonesey95 moved back into the lead coordinator position, with Miniapolis stepping down to remain as coordinator; Tdslk and Corinne returned as coordinators, and Keira1996 rejoined after an extended absence. Thanks to all who participated!

July drive: We set out to remove August, September, October, and November 2016 from the backlog and to complete all May and June 2017 Requests (a total of 242 articles). The drive was an enormous success, and the target was nearly achieved within three weeks, so that December 2016 was added to the "old articles" list used as a goal for the drive. By the end of the month, only three articles from 2016 remained, and for the second drive in a row, the backlog was reduced to a new all-time low, this time to 1,363 articles. Of the 33 who signed up, 21 editors completed 337 articles (556,482 words).

August blitz: This one-week copy-editing blitz ran from 20 through 26 August; the theme was biographical articles tagged for copy editing for more than six months (47 articles). Of the 13 who signed up, 11 editors completed 38 copy edits (42,589 words).

September drive: The goals were to remove January, February, and March 2017 from the backlog and to complete all August 2017 Requests (a total of 338 articles). Of the 19 who signed up, 14 editors completed 121 copy edits (267,227 words).

October blitz: This one-week copy-editing blitz ran from 22 through 28 October; the theme was Requests. Of the 14 who signed up, 8 editors completed 20 articles (55,642 words).

November drive: We set out again to remove January, February, and March 2017 from the backlog and to complete all October 2017 Requests (a total of 207 articles). By the end of the month, these goals were reached and the backlog shrank to its lowest total ever, 997 articles, the first time it had fallen under one thousand (click on the graph above to see this amazing feat in graphical form). It was also the first time that the oldest copy-edit tag was less than eight months old. Of the 25 who signed up, 16 editors completed 159 articles (285,929 words).

2018 Coordinator elections: Voting is open for the election of coordinators for the first half of 2018. Please visit the election page to vote between now and December 31 at 23:59 (UTC). Thanks for participating!

Housekeeping note: We do not send a newsletter before (or after) every drive or blitz. To have a better chance of knowing when the next event will start, add the GOCE's message box to your watchlist.

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators: Jonesey95, Miniapolis, Corinne, Tdslk, and Keira1996.

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GOCE February 2018 news[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors February 2018 News
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Welcome to the February 2018 GOCE newsletter in which you will find Guild updates since the December edition. We got to a great start for the year, holding the backlog at nine months. 100 requests were submitted in the first 6 weeks of the year and were swiftly handled with an average completion time of 9 days.

Coordinator elections: In December, coordinators for the first half of 2018 were elected. Jonesey95 remained as lead coordinator and Corrine, Miniapolis and Tdslk as assistant coordinators. Keira1996 stepped down as assistant coordinator and was replaced by Reidgreg. Thanks to all who participated!

End of year reports were prepared for 2016 and 2017, providing a detailed look at the Guild's long-term progress.

January drive: We set out to remove April, May, and June 2017 from our backlog and all December 2017 Requests (a total of 275 articles). As with previous years, the January drive was an outstanding success and by the end of the month all but 57 of these articles were cleared. Officially, of the 38 who signed up, 21 editors recorded 259 copy edits (490,256 words).

February blitz: This one-week copy-editing blitz ran from 11 through 17 February, focusing on Requests and the last articles tagged in May 2017. At the end of the week there were only 14 pending requests, with none older than 20 days. Of the 11 who signed up, 10 editors completed 35 copy edits (98,538 words).

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators: Jonesey95, Miniapolis, Corinne, Tdslk, and Reidgreg.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:00, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Ichthus April 2018[edit]

Ichthus dark yellow.png

ICHTHUS

April 2018

Project News
By Lionelt

Belated Happy Easter and Kalo Pascha! We're excited to announce the return of our newsletter Ichthus! Getting this issue out was touch-and-go for a while. Check out what's happening at the Project:


Achievements

Hedy Lamarr as Delilah
Hedy Lamarr as Delilah

In March the Project saw four articles promoted to GA-Class. They were the oh-so-irresistible Delilah (nom. MagicatthemovieS) (pictured), Edict of Torda (nom. Borsoka), David Meade (author) (nom. LovelyGirl7) and last but not least Black Christmas (2006 film) (nom. Drown_Soda). Black Christmas? How did that get in there lol? Congratulations to all of the nominators for a job well done!


Did You Know
Nominated by The C of E

... that some people know Christ the Lord is risen today from Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch?"

Featured article
Nominated by FutureTrillionaire

Jesus of Nazareth

Jesus (7–2 BC to 30–33 AD) is the central figure of Christianity, whom the teachings of most Christian denominations hold to be the Son of God and the awaited Messiah of the Old Testament. Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that a historical Jesus existed, although there is little agreement on the reliability of the gospel narratives and how closely the biblical Jesus reflects the historical Jesus. Most scholars agree that Jesus was a Jewish preacher from Galilee, was baptized by John the Baptist, and was crucified in Jerusalem on the orders of the Roman prefect, Pontius Pilate. Christians generally believe that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, performed miracles, founded the Church, died by crucifixion as a sacrifice to achieve atonement, rose from the dead, and ascended into heaven, from which he will return. The great majority of Christians worship Jesus as the incarnation of God the Son, the second of three Persons of a Divine Trinity. A few Christian groups reject Trinitarianism, wholly or partly, as non-scriptural. In Islam, Jesus is considered one of God's important prophets and the Messiah. (Full article...)


Help wanted

We're looking for writers to contribute to Ichthus. Do you have a project that you'd like to highlight? An issue that you'd like to bring to light? Post your inquiries or submission here. And if the publication of this issue is any indication, you're in for the ride of a lifetime!


Ichthus is published by WikiProject Christianity • Get answers to questions about Christianity here
Discuss any of the above stories here • For submissions contact the Newsroom
To unsubscribe add yourself to the list here
Delivered: 00:13, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Ichthus: May 2018[edit]

Ichthus dark yellow.png

ICHTHUS

May 2018

Project News
By Lionelt

Last month's auspicious relaunch of our newsletter precipitated something of an uproar in the Wikipedia community. What started as a localized edit war over censorship spilled over onto the Administrator's Noticeboard finally ending up at Wikipedia's supreme judicial body ArbCom. Their ruling resulted in the admonishment of administrator Future Perfect at Sunrise for his involvement in the dispute. The story was reported by Wikipedia's venerable flagship newspaper The Signpost.

The question of whether to delete all portals--including the 27 Christianity-related portals--was put to the Wikipedia community. Approximately 400 editors have participated in the protracted discussion. Going by !votes, Oppose deletion has a distinct majority. The original Christianity Portal was created on November 5, 2005 by Brisvegas and the following year he successfully nominated the portal for Featured Portal. The Transhumanist has revived WikiProject Portals with hopes of revitalizing Wikipedia's system of 1,515 portals.

Stay up-to-date on the latest happenings at the Project Watch


Achievements

Four articles in the Project were promoted to GA: Edict of Torda nom. by Borsoka, Jim Bakker nom. by LovelyGirl7, Ralph Abernathy nom. by Coffee and Psalm 84 nom. by Gerda_Arendt. The Psalm ends with "O Lord of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee." Words to live by. Please support our members and send some WikiLove to the nominators!

Featured article
Nominated by Spangineer

The reconstructed frame of Nate Saint's plane used in Operation Auca

Operation Auca was an attempt by five Evangelical Christian missionaries from the United States to make contact with the Huaorani people of the rainforest of Ecuador. The Huaorani, also known as the Aucas, were an isolated tribe known for their violence, both against their own people and outsiders who entered their territory. With the intention of being the first Protestants to evangelize the Huaorani, the missionaries began making regular flights over Huaorani settlements in September 1955, dropping gifts. After several months of exchanging gifts, on January 2, 1956, the missionaries established a camp at "Palm Beach", a sandbar along the Curaray River, a few miles from Huaorani settlements. Their efforts culminated on January 8, 1956, when all five—Jim Elliot, Nate Saint, Ed McCully, Peter Fleming, and Roger Youderian—were attacked and speared by a group of Huaorani warriors. The news of their deaths was broadcast around the world, and Life magazine covered the event with a photo essay. The deaths of the men galvanized the missionary effort in the United States, sparking an outpouring of funding for evangelization efforts around the world. Their work is still frequently remembered in evangelical publications, and in 2006, was the subject of the film production End of the Spear. (more...)


Did You Know
Nominated by Dahn

"... that, shortly after being sentenced to death for treason, Ioan C. Filitti became manager of the National Theatre Bucharest?"


Ichthus is published by WikiProject Christianity • Get answers to questions about Christianity here
Discuss any of the above stories here • For submissions contact the Newsroom• Unsubscribe here
Delivered: 19:15, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Christian Barnstar Hires.png The Christianity Barnstar
is hereby awarded to Ltwin for their tremendous contribution to Christianity-related articles. – Lionel(talk) 12:21, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

June 2018 GOCE newsletter[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors June 2018 News
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Welcome to the June 2018 GOCE newsletter, in which you will find Guild updates since the February edition. Progress continues to be made on the copyediting backlog, which has been reduced to 7 months and reached a new all-time low. Requests continue to be handled efficiently this year, with 272 completed by the end of May (an average completion time of 10.5 days). Fewer than 10% of these waited longer than 20 days, and the longest wait time was 29 days.

Wikipedia in general, and the Guild in particular, experienced a deep loss with the death on 20 March of Corinne. Corinne (a GOCE coordinator since 1 July 2016) was a tireless aide on the requests page, and her peerless copyediting is a part of innumerable GAs and FAs. Her good cheer, courtesy and tact are very much missed.

March drive: The goal was to remove June, July and August 2017 from our backlog and all February 2018 Requests (a total of 219 articles). This drive was an outstanding success, and by the end of the month all but eight of these articles were cleared. Of the 33 editors who signed up, 19 recorded 277 copy edits (425,758 words).

April blitz: This one-week copy-editing blitz ran from 15 through 21 April, focusing on Requests and the last eight articles tagged in August 2017. At the end of the week there were only 17 pending requests, with none older than 17 days. Of the nine editors who signed up, eight editors completed 22 copy edits (62,412 words).

May drive: We set out to remove September, October and November 2017 from our backlog and all April 2018 Requests (a total of 298 articles). There was great success this month with the backlog more than halved from 1,449 articles at the beginning of the month to a record low of 716 articles. Officially, of the 20 who signed up, 15 editors recorded 151 copy edits (248,813 words).

Coordinator elections: It's election time again. Nominations for Guild coordinators (who will serve a six-month term for the second half of 2018) have begun, and will close at 23:59 UTC on 15 June. All Wikipedia editors in good standing are eligible, and self-nominations are encouraged. Voting will take place between 00:01 UTC on 16 June and 23:59 UTC on 30 June.

June blitz: Stay tuned for this one-week copy-editing blitz, which will take place in mid-June.

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators: Corinne, Jonesey95, Miniapolis, Reidgreg and Tdslk.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:26, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Ichthus June 2018[edit]

Ichthus dark yellow.png

ICHTHUS

June 2018

Project news
By Lionelt

Here are discussions relevant to the Project:

The following articles need reviewers for GA-class: Type of Constans nom. by Gog the Mild, Tian Feng (magazine) nom. by Finnusertop. Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

Stay up-to-date on the latest happenings at the Project Watch


Did You Know
Nominated by Gonzonoir

... that in 1636, Phineas Hodson, Chancellor of York Minster, lost his 38-year-old wife Jane during the birth of the couple's 24th child?

Featured article
Nominated by Cliftonian

The Kidnapping of Edgardo Mortara, painting by Moritz Daniel Oppenheim, 1862. This depiction departs significantly from the historical record of how Mortara was taken—no clergy were present, for example.
The Kidnapping of Edgardo Mortara

The Mortara case was a controversy precipitated by the Papal States' seizure of Edgardo Mortara, a six-year-old Jewish child, from his family in Bologna, Italy, in 1858. The city's inquisitor, Father Pier Feletti, heard from a servant that she had administered emergency baptism to the boy when he fell sick as an infant, and the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition held that this made the child irrevocably a Catholic. Because the Papal States had forbidden the raising of Christians by members of other faiths, it was ordered that he be taken from his family and brought up by the Church. After visits from the child's father, international protests mounted, but Pope Pius IX would not be moved. The boy grew up as a Catholic with the Pope as a substitute father, trained for the priesthood in Rome until 1870, and was ordained in France three years later. In 1870 the Kingdom of Italy captured Rome during the unification of Italy, ending the pontifical state; opposition across Italy, Europe and the United States over Mortara's treatment may have contributed to its downfall. (Full article...)


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