User talk:Lycurgus

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first edit 2006-04-23 - 2017-01-19 last mainspace edit
many/most were by ip, no ips are me after winter '16
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Simple Principles for World Revolution[edit]

  • Disintermediation of the relation between the lead workers and the consumer of ihr labor so that it is that of one sovereign to another.
  • Production for use¹ (at cost) of socially necessary goods and services transparently accounted in a common money based on labor time which working people create themselves.
  • A pragmatic transitional Program but one that never compromises the most rapid advancement to the realization of these two end goals (political disintermediation and de-privatisation of the basis of subsistence/production).

    So for example the first principle might be worked out at lower levels than provincial or national level before regionally or internationally but from the beginning it should sweep clean private tyrannies and conspiracies from the bottom up. And it might not be able to be applied at the local level until there is sufficient understanding of how to do so. But an advancement in understanding is itself a sufficient gain that its solidification can be associated with a more or less sudden collapse rather than a slow withering away of structures of the old society can be anticipated. Similarly the fiat money of the nation-state system can co-exist with the new relegated to its proper sphere.

Lycurgus (talk) 23:39, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

¹Bifurcated post revolutionary situation where the sphere of reproduction and unnecessary production separate.

Reply to struth on an Article by E.J.Dionne[edit]

WaPo closes comments after two weeks so I'm compulsively responding to this reply to my comment on E.J. Dionne's article Capitalists should listen to Bernie Sanders.

In another place I will comment on the careful use of language, but yes that's right, that's a main sense of the term "Capitalist". It's also true of course that I would be committing a fallacy of composition if I asserted that the owner of a factor of a thing was the owner of the thing. It's also true there is no cheat or exploitation when labor is fairly compensated for its factor in production, by established market values, presuming those market values are in fact fair.

However as Marx and Marxists will explain, the essence of this system is 1) the expropriation of the surplus value (which is called "profit") in the struck price of the house or car and 2) the basing of all production and indeed all of society on this scheme of expropriation, as an "ism" (cf Heilbroner, Nature of Capitalism).

Moreover, the lie or cheat and attempt at domination are clear in the general failure of honest accounting which is at the core of this system. In principle, the Marxists complaints could and can be dismissed where there is open and clear accounting, at least insofar as a narrow focus on the deal in production is concerned, which for that matter are to some extent required at least at the level of monopoly/big Capital. In that case the Capitalist is not distinct from the worker and charges a known amount for her factor of organizing production.

But the entire system is based on subverting such openness in accounting which is why I wanted the current POTUS to be in a contest with Sanders, although the latter is a poor anti partner to the former, who is more or less an epitome of the system, a pure brand rentier with not even the role in production common to a Gates or in speculation to a Buffet. It is also a poor basis for the structuring of society, substituting what is appropriate to individual motivation as an organizing principle for a collective without an actual means of reconciling the different interests.

When labor is relatively simple and easily commodified such as in manufacturing line workers the model can work fairly well. However when such commodification is impossible as for example in the intellectual worker, or when collective interests can't be reduced to individual gain the system fails and blocks needed responses.

Excellent as an economic regime under enlightened leadership as the Chinese Communist Party has shown and was the case here when it was in planetary opposition.

A disaster qualified success for some at best as a basis for society per se.

Lycurgus (talk) 21:37, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

A Religious Definition of Communisms[edit]

That spectrum of conceptions of the organization of society, in which it, society as a whole, has effectively reached full self-consciousness, transcending those objectifications of the other vestigial in socialisms and which are the hallmark of primitive social orders, in a pure relation of the individual to society, not just the nation state, local power elites, revolutionary cadres, etc. but the totality of living beings of at least one's species of origin. (talk) 15:11, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

about CANDE[edit]

I wrote the B6500 version of CANDE, which was quite different from the 5500 version, and both have been heavily modified over the years. You can contact me at ivan at ootbcomp dot com.

noting Igodard wrote above, so there's no confusion I'm saying I wrote the CANDE MCS. (talk) 13:13, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

End of IP editing[edit]

The situation with ip edits is like the failure of Socialism with the current human stock, the masses of the old society, this being borne to me by the recent need to block such from the US Congress. Until now I felt that it was preferable to defend anonymous editing in the spirit of wiki but I see the wrongheadedness of this now so will only edit mainspace with this account which is the only named one I've ever used to edit here. Lycurgus (talk) 05:54, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Followed this policy until end of 2015 then gradually reverted to mostly by the ipv4 address used for 2y or so up to this point and whose talk page I've reset back so it can be released/reused. Lycurgus (talk) 06:18, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
Probably will, and do want to stop completely at some point, still compulsively correcting, responding to tags, the more egregious distortion/falsehoods, mostly by IP for last 6 mo or so, and always clearly traceable back to here. (talk) 22:22, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

The Future of an Illusion[edit]

I don't have time to defend content from attack such as this article is currently under. There's a modicum of social service I will perform here but pretty much at or past my limit in dealing with the individual attacking this article. Will pull this into my space and change the link on my user page to point to it rather than conflict with the individual FreeKnowledge-Something. The established and ongoing policy, otherwise my wiki editing service would be a horror of dealing with such individuals. Don't want. I will work with others to defend the public content, otherwise TRTTD is the course mentioned/taken. Lycurgus (talk) 09:02, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

In closing (I hope) noting that I didn't carefully read everything the individual had to say, in particular didn't read all the text he put on the talk thread I opened. Lycurgus (talk) 09:53, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Help fix the gender bias on Wikipedia?[edit]

Hi there - I'm working on four fix-the-Gender-Bias articles, listed here User:LeoRomero/scxc. Could use your expertise. - Thanks and Mabuhay! - LoRETta/LeoRomero 18:59, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi LeoRomero :) I am sympathetic to your cause but I have a new year's resolution for 2016 to sharply reduce the time I spend in general internet/social media, such as wikimedia. It's just for a year, so I will revisit this at the end of 2016. However, SFAIK, outside of whatever the ambient culture has, there's no such bias known to me in the English wikipedia. Lycurgus (talk) 03:08, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
I'm not planning to resume editing so responding now. Since the response above have learned that wiki recognizes WP:BIAS but basically it's what I allude to, namely a result of the demographics of the primary contributors. Nonetheless acknowledging it is a thing. Since there's a whole set of projects addressing it ... . Lycurgus (talk) 21:36, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

On the sogennante 'Fermi Paradox'[edit]

It's only a paradox because we are just at the point where we can ask the question, having only had language and what is called thinking, civilization, and science for successively shorter periods of time. Today there is still no human culture based on scientific values and only 1 known to me with any program to have such a basing. So in a way even asking the question is presumptuous, given the current state of cultural development of the questioner.

I think the most cogent analogy is to the so-called uncontacted peoples, a few of which remain. It's only approximate of course because no human population has ever had a comparable isolation but from the point of view of the posing of the question/paradox it's pretty direct.

Uncontacted peoples of today exist in the same human environment that, from the point of view of persons reading this text, is saturated with communications. These communications are all around them but they simply are not at a stage where they can access them and the larger human culture is finally at a stage where it will allow them to develop at their own pace, remain uncontacted, at least to the extent it can control itself in such things as habitat conservation.

There is surely a cosmic civilization which is possibly older than the solar system, certainly much older than the entire human lineage, and likely has had some interaction with it, is aware of the development of life in this system. The new details found on planet formation and thus the basis for intelligent life make this clear. For the same reasons that we do not contact the uncontacted peoples, including the burdens such contacts would impose on the superior culture, we are not contacted by that civilization. We are probably still pretty uninteresting (or worse) at this point, except to developers, researchers, or tourists, so why would the vastly superior cosmic culture want to contact us?

Nothing stops us from developing to the point where we can, if you will, discover radio and stop listening for jungle drums or looking for smoke signals. A substantial advance in physics will be required to understand this of course (as opposed to just use it, here the analogy is to the masses in world culture that use semi-conductor based technology but are oblivious to the principles of quantum mechanics upon which it is based), but at least we have a physics, primitive peoples only have their religion. Lycurgus (talk) 03:53, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Axion brand PEMS Unit, Portable Emissions Measurement System.jpg[edit]

Thanks for uploading File:Axion brand PEMS Unit, Portable Emissions Measurement System.jpg. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file has agreed to release it under the given license.

If you are the copyright holder for this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either

  • make a note permitting reuse under the CC-BY-SA or another acceptable free license (see this list) at the site of the original publication; or
  • Send an email from an address associated with the original publication to, stating your ownership of the material and your intention to publish it under a free license. You can find a sample permission letter here. If you take this step, add {{OTRS pending}} to the file description page to prevent premature deletion.

If you did not create it entirely yourself, please ask the person who created the file to take one of the two steps listed above, or if the owner of the file has already given their permission to you via email, please forward that email to

If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Non-free content, use a tag such as {{non-free fair use}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:File copyright tags#Fair use, and add a rationale justifying the file's use on the article or articles where it is included. See Wikipedia:File copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have provided evidence that their copyright owners have agreed to license their works under the tags you supplied, too. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Files lacking evidence of permission may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. You may wish to read Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 17:56, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Please refer to GMRV on this, I do not have a current biz relationship with them, was a W2/4 employee at the time, and the action was approved by Earl (COO and I think the person who captured the image) and implicitly the ownership. I believe the admin (Michele Simmons) was supposed to supply anything needed in terms of what you may be asking for. I believe they are still in biz, still the only actual thing matching the article subject (PEMS), and likely will still want the image (or another) prominent in the article. Lycurgus (talk) 10:45, 13 March 2016 (UTC) is the only web presence I could find working right now. They should be reachable if you leave a message at some provided contact, earl.leatherland and michele.simmons @ and should work unless they're no longer in biz, in which case you can decide. (talk) 11:36, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
Also shows the next generation thing which may be an alternate for the image which was placed upon request. I do believe GMRV personnel have had a hand in the text of the article, and that an individual (departed long b4 my involvement) may have done the original article, but I only placed the image. Lycurgus (talk) 12:50, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
Haven't received any active feedback, but my sense is they were sold/moved. So fine to let the automation delete the image I think. (talk) 04:51, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I did speak to Michelle and she indicated they were aware. (talk) 13:20, 15 March 2016 (UTC)