User talk:MONGO/Archive09

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Mongo, the Walmarting article we corresponded about in March attracted contributions today from Alan Aycock, the University of Milwaukee anthropology prof whose course I cited as an example of the term. Pretty neat, huh?

He just wrote a note on my talk page and I've responded, asking if he can add references, since I'm sure he has loads. Hope you're well.--Beth Wellington 02:26, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thank you, dear Dave !

Your concern in my absence and your get-well wishes really mean a lot to me. Sometimes, well - life can be tough on us, but as long as good friends like you are there, I'll always have a reason to cheer up. Thank you, my sweet, dear Dave!!

Phædriel tell me - 17:56, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

A landslide victory for The JPS (aka RFA thanks)

Hey, MONGO/Archive09, thank you so much for your vote and comments in my RfA, which passed with an overwhelming consensus of 95/2/2. I was very surprised and flattered that the community has entrusted me with these lovely new toys. I ripped open the box and started playing with them as soon as I got them, and I've already had the pleasure of deleting random nonsense/attacks/copyvios tonight.
If I ever do anything wrong, or can help in some way, please feel free to drop me a line on my talk page, and I will do my best to correct my mistake, or whatever...
Now, to that bottle of wine waiting for me...

The JPS talk to me 22:31, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Red Wine Glass.jpg

Possible reference approach

Tell me what you think about User talk:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters/Hidden refs. It has a certain fugliness to it; but it might be plausible to try on some article to avoid the "cluttered edit window" issue that bothers you. LotLE×talk 17:09, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I tried this at User talk:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters/Shoshone National Forest. What do you think? Better or worse than the prior version? LotLE×talk 21:51, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I found another way of tagging the "hidden refs" idea, and I think it looks much better, and easier for non-coders to deal with. Wanna take a new look at the "Hidden refs" and "Shoshone" pages I mention. Actually, I think it might be good enough to actual do on Shoshone (I'd be happy to re-do it for the latest version of that page, if you think it's desirable).

Along the same lines, do you have any idea how to contact actual Wikimedia developers. I looked through the code for m:Cite.php, and actually provided a specific change at Wikipedia talk:Footnotes and cite.php metawiki. But it fell on utterly deaf ears... which makes me think I'm talking in the wrong place. The idea is, if this code was (first tested then) implemented, we could put the hidden reference block wherever we wanted, including in a friendly "References" section near the bottom. LotLE×talk 17:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


You seem to be pretty upset over this guys appeal to authoirty on the part of one arbitor speaking casualy. Personally I hate vote stacking; such votes may be discounted, and an RfC may be needed for the spammer. In a "Splash" sort of way, I do agree that no clear policy over this has been laid out, and blocks, especially by those involved in the vote may be a bit out of line. Nevertheless, try not get angry over this kind of will all play out sooner or later.Voice-of-AllT|@|ESP 05:49, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Rationales for not voting for Hillary Clinton in 2008

Blame my laziness on this one, but I only saw you had restored it after I deleted it. Am I missing any reason to keep the text in the history? After the Brian Chase thing I'm just thinking Wikipedia would like to avoid this sort of thing. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 06:59, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

References font-size

The references font-size proposal was resurrected [1], and I notice it has actually been implemented. [2] Not entirely sure it will last, though. Either way, you can go into your monobook.css (e.g. User:MONGO/monobook.css) and set your preference for font-size, by adding:

ol.references { font-size: 100%; }

and setting font-size percentage to whatever you want (if you don't like the default). This overrides the sitewide default. --Aude (talk | contribs) 18:45, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the support on my RfA!

File:Danavecpurpletiger.jpg A belated thank you to you for Supporting my RFA! It passed 54/2/3, much better than I expected! I am still finding my feet as an Administrator, and so far I am enjoying the experience. I am honoured that you felt I was ready to take up this position, and wish to thank you formally! I hope I can live up to your expectations of me. Once again, thank you! --Darth Deskana (talk page) 19:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for unblocking me. thewolfstar 11:48, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Impeachment article imbroglio

I wonder if I could get your opinion at: Talk:Rationales provided by advocates of the impeachment of George W. Bush#What to do post-AfD?. LotLE×talk 17:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Esperanza Newsletter, Issue #3

The Administrator Coaching program is a program aimed at preparing Wikipedians for Adminship or helping them understand the intricacies of Wikipedia better. Recently, changes have been made to the requirements of coachees. Please review them before requesting this service.
This would be something like the Welcoming Committee, but for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. Some might like suggestions about how to learn vandal patrol, or mentoring on taking an article to featured status, or guidance with a proposal they plan to make at the Village Pump, for example. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins.
The Stressbusters are a subset of Esperanza aiming to investigate the causes of stress. New eyes on the situation are always welcome!
Note from the editor
As always, MiszaBot handled this delivery. Thank you! Also, congratulations go to Pschemp, Titoxd and Freakofnurture for being elected in the last elections! An Esperanzial May to all of the readership!
  1. Posting logs of the Esperanza IRC channel are explicitly banned anywhere. Violation of this rule results in deletion and a ban from the channel.
  2. A disclaimer is going to be added to the Esperanza main page. We are humans and, as such, are imperfect.
  3. Various revisions have been made to the Code of Conduct. Please see them, as the proposal is ready to be ratified by the community and enacted. All members will members to have to re-confirm their membership after accepting the Code of Conduct.
  4. Referendums are to be held on whether terms of AC members should be lengthened and whether we should abolish votes full stop.
  5. Admin Coaching reform is agreed upon.
Celestianpower, JoanneB, Titoxd, Pschemp and Freakofnurture
20:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)



I am sending this message to editors I know who have done work on articles related to communism.

Adam Carr recently started bringing the Cuba article up to standard, gradually rewriting each section. In the meantime, his work has been resisted for several weeks by a group of Castro supporters who dispute, among other things, that the fact that Cuba is not a democracy. Adam Carr is now at a conference for a couple of weeks, meaning his work will likely be undone. If you have the time and the interest, please take a look.

Best regards. 172 | Talk 05:25, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Talk:7 World Trade Center

You said: "That's not a POV..that's a mission statement. I don't edit war on the article. As you evolve as a Wikipedian, maybe you'll understand that we don't link to self promoting websites that exist to promote nonsense and make a buck. I really cannot explain it any better than that, so bye."

I find that rather patronising, and just a little arrogant. If there is really no more to debate about, as you imply with your 'bye', I find it rather sad as it means we will have to ask for help to sort out the dispute and I had hoped we could do that ourselves. I thought I'd drop you a note here and see if you want to reconsider. By the way, I also do not appreciate language like "That is a bunch of crap."; I would be grateful if we could keep this civil. Even though we may disagree (and I'm not even sure we don't have a similar POV but different ways of expressing it), I think we should leave the language of the schoolyard behind. Thanks for your consideration. Guinnog 18:55, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Mongo, I was interested in this which you wrote:

"Looks like it's time to do something more about the articles related to 9/11...POV pushers of nonsense are determined to have their link, even though it vilates a number of wikipedia policies. I am inclined to have a zero tolerance now even in the conspiracy theory pages that relate to this junk science. I am also about ready to start blocking folks for disruption of the talk pages.--MONGO 07:31, 8 May 2006 (UTC)"

and then

"By all means, do what matters the most to you...just encourage you to keep tabs on what's going on and glad to see you participating...don't let it take over one more minute than you feel is necessary, for in my opinion, we are arguing with trolls mostly...sorry for the bluntness...just my style at times. Happy editing.--MONGO 01:28, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[3]"

On reading this, which seems to seriously violate WP:NPA and WP:AGF, I was quite insulted. Is anyone arguing against your exclusion of all but the single official link in this article regarded by you as "POV pushers of nonsense" and trolls? When you rebuffed my attempt to engage you in civil dialogue, and to gently remind you to stay civil with the curt message that "I don't compromise if it means policy is to be violated", taken in conjunction with the above, I began to wonder if you were letting your POV rule your editing behaviour. The only reason I bring it up here is because I think it affects your credibility in this debate. Is it really about photo copyright and commercialism? I think I need you to reassure me that you are not letting your passionate POV rule you here.

Specifically, could you also please withdraw your threat above to "block folks for disruption of the talk page", as I don't think anyone is doing so. Even if they were, in your opinion, it would obviously be inappropriate for you to take admin action like this regarding a page you have been editing. Thanks in advance, Guinnog 22:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

You replied: If adding a link to a website violates policy, then we don't add it. If people are disruptive on talk pages, then a block is justified. My POV, as you wish to call it, is based on the proven evidence, not on nonsense that is based on opinions or junk science that misinformed individuals have gathered from unscientific websites, whose sole or certainly secondary purpose is to make a profit. I don't think I can clarify it more clearly than that. There isn't much room for dialogue if folks keep trying to force policy violating websites into the articles.--MONGO 00:48, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Your reply worries me deeply. I find your use of "if" here very disingenuous. The question of whether any particular link "violates policy" was what we were discussing in the talk page. In what sense did you consider that was "disruptive"?

Howver, my most serious worry is that as an admin you would make this threat. Do you or do you not know that to carry out the threat would have been a flat-out breach of policy? If you accept it was a mistake, it would show courage and integrity to admit it. Guinnog 06:40, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

In response to your edit summary "read the policy", I obviously had already read the policy, which is how I knew your threat to be wrong. There was no 'if' in your comment that you were "just about ready to start blocking folks", as you well know. Such a threat, in a public place where participants in the discussion were likely to read it as I did, seems to me to be potentially disruptive in its own right. There is nothing in the blocking policy about blocking editors whose arguments or opinions you don't like, as you also must know. Perhaps a quick review of the contents of WP:HAR might be in order? As I believe I've mentioned before, WP:AGF and WP:CIVIL are paramount Wiki policies. Please respect them as I have tried to do. Thank you. Guinnog 07:07, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
I will not assume any good faith when POV pushers try to add nonsense to the articles. makes your position clear all right. If you are not prepared to edit in good faith and accept others' right to do so, I don't know what else to say! With the greatest respect, can't you see that your edits can be seen as POV-pushing too?! Guinnog 14:08, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


I don't disagree, but a widespread, across the board action would take a lot of time to sort through. I think it would have to be done on a case by case basis. That'd be a full time job considering the debating styles of some of the proponets and their tireless devotion to conspiracy. If I had time I'd love to root that crap out, a large pertcentage of it doesn't belong here. But I find 7wtc taking up what little time I have these days...I don't mind because it's important but I'm not sure how much more personally I can devote to it. But, I'd support you as far as I could if you did want to open up a wide front on junk 911 conspiracy theories. There would be some that are probably notable enough to include in conspiracy pages, but almost none of them belong on the main topic pages. Rx StrangeLove 21:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

You being blunt is no secret ;) I just put a long response in at 7wtc....40 minutes I'll never get back and it won't make a bit of difference. Let me know if you do open up a larger front on junk 9/11 theories, I'll help out as much as I can. Rx StrangeLove 04:50, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank You!

Thanks for the note. I'm Bett and really new here. With regards to the Wilderness stuff that I'm doing I was trying to help get rid of the red links and give a bit of info. Still nosing around and learning alot. I'm from Ontario, Canada. LdyDragonfly 04:45, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

External links - You've helped me alot but am a bit confused. On the links you've put date link was accessed. Is this necessary because I haven't seen that done anywhere else or is that to help me? Showing me some templates is a really big help as well. I really like the fact I can preview before submitting. Thanks! LdyDragonfly 07:29, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if I stepped on someone's toes with regards to the Wilderness template. I didn't mean to offend anyone working on the project. Is it alright to fill in a red lined subject with a couple of lines of info and an external link or two...for starters? I'm still new and you did kind of blow me away with all the template stuff. LdyDragonfly 01:08, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

What I meant by messing up anything was a setup that you wanted as a style(?) for your pages. They seem to differ in different sections. Ya I'm getting the knowhow of the embedded links but seem to worry when things in one section don't seem to be following the lead. What drives me nuts is the titles like....External links. I almost want to change them all to External Links. I'm learning though. I also edit on Netscape's Dining Directory and have edited on ODP for Netscape This is the first HTML based one that I've done so it's interesting and gives me a kick in the butt to make my own page. :) LdyDragonfly 01:59, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


Just one question - How was I vandalizing Wikipedia?

Actually, I didn't realize my changes weren't encyclopedic. According to Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, encyclopedic is defined as:

of, relating to, or suggestive of an encyclopedia or its methods of treating or covering a subject

And encyclopedia is defined as:

a work that contains information on all branches of knowledge or treats comprehensively a particular branch of knowledge usually in articles arranged alphabetically often by subject

How was that not being encyclopedic?

So, I also gather that you're an Administrator. May I therefore assume you have read the Vandalism and Resolving disputes articles? If I may say, and I quote:

Bullying or Stubbornness

Some users cannot come to agreement with others who are willing to talk to them on an article's talk page, and repeatedly make changes opposed by everyone else. This is a matter of regret - you may wish to see our dispute resolution pages to get help. However, it is not vandalism.

Again I quote:

Be respectful to others and their points of view. This means primarily: Do not simply revert changes in a dispute.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Uweretheone (talkcontribs) Uweretheone (talk · contribs) [4]

Changing "God's wonderful hand" to "70 million years of volcanism, migration, and evolution—processes" is not encyclopedic. It's your opinion, and if you do it again, I'll simply find a way to block you. Uweretheone 11:08, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

No response, I got your tongue, eh? Uweretheone 01:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Whoa, whoa, whoa- back up there...scientific information? So you think evolution is scientific? Ha! Sorry to break it to you, but evolution is false. Give me good, genuine, solid proof that evolution is true, and good, genuine, solid proof that Christianity is false, and then I'll stop bothering you. Uweretheone 02:42, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Check this out

I promise you will love it. [5]--Jersey Devil 06:32, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Also see my comment here.--Jersey Devil 07:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Reliable Sources talk discussion

I've started a topic on WP:RS on the claims that Seabchan makes about the validity of the 9/11 commision report and the FEMA and NIST reports.[6]

As you have been dealing it with him longer, I think you might be able to give more insight.--DCAnderson 10:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)


I've replied on my talkpage. -ZeroTalk 11:04, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, thank you for the e-mail. I've responded with one and on my talkpage again, and despite it being unsuccessful, thank you for nominating me. -ZeroTalk 13:39, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for voting in my RfA!

Thanks for the vote in my RfA! It did not gain consensus, but I'm happy with having accepted it. Good learning experience. - Amgine 17:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

A tribute

Mingo National Wildlife Refuge

I've written an article in your honor! Check out the Mingo National Wildlife Refuge. Mingo/Mongo, Mongo/Mingo... It was close enough! ClarkBHM 19:36, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Laura Chapman

MONGO, today you speedied this article as a non notable character. Surely you know the non notable speedy criteria is for real people, not characters? CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 04:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Ollanta Humala

Careful on the delete, the AOL anon vandal tricked you. -- Curps 04:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Ollanta Humala can you undelete the talk page? God, these vandals really piss me off.--Jersey Devil 04:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, please semi-protect again. These people aren't going to stop. Another incident amongst the countless others showing why IPs shouldn't be allowed to edit.--Jersey Devil 04:36, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Lastly, please block these IPs for vandalism. User talk: and User talk: Devil 04:41, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I hereby award MONGO the rouge admin award for his deletion of Wikipedia's article on a current Presidential candidate. Keep up the good work! :P --TantalumTelluride 05:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

:P--Jersey Devil 05:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

And for my next act...yes, that's right folks! I'm gonna speedy George W Bush!!!--MONGO 05:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow! Do you do children's parties too? Bishonen | talk 02:37, 12 May 2006 (UTC).

User talk:

Why did you delete this page? It had a significant history of warnings, etc. greater than a simple redirect. Snoutwood (talk) 06:13, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

No, that's cool. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. O.K. if I undelete it? Snoutwood (talk) 07:21, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

RFC Against You

User talk:EyesAllMine#Mongo's behaviour and User_talk:Seabhcan#rfc, They were apparently plotting an RFC against you, didn't know if you realized it.--Jersey Devil 02:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

NP article

Hi, I was admiring the new pictures last night. I think the gallery is great, but it'd look better if you could connect the pics, see Flag of Australia where we ended up putting the images we wanted to display together in a table rather than using the gallery markup. You might need to mess around with the number of pixels to get them all the same size. One other thing, why is climate a subsection of ecology - it seems more like a geography subsection to me.--Peta 02:48, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

MOGO (talk · contribs)

typo or impersonator?--J-edgar 16:39, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Hum...I'll watchlist and see where he goes, thanks for the heads up.--MONGO 16:41, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Request for Editor / User Page Review


You opposed my last RfA in March on rationale I believe may have been related to my user page. In the time since then, I have changed my page to be more universalist (which still conforms with my personal beliefs) and removed the majority of information regarding my conversion to Islam in favor of a section on my philosophy (as well as yours if you desire). Now, I'm looking for your feedback on what you think of the redesign of the page and whether it is sufficient in quelling the March controversy over the page as well as solving the issue about possible inability to maintain a neutral point of view, especially in religion-related articles. For what it's worth, the reason I kept a condensed version of the timeline was because there were, and still are, many people who find it interesting instead of a form of proselytization. Many people have also given me positive feedback on my talk page regarding the look of the page. I personally believe that it is okay to insert individuality onto user pages, especially if it still promotes a sense of community. That is what I was going for with this current version of my user page.

Please make comments regarding the user page on my editor review page. Thanks in advance. joturner 15:08, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


can you please block User talk:, he keeps vandalizing my userpage. Karrmann 12:40, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

He vandalized my talk page again. Karrmann 10:53, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Dear MONGO — Thank you for your support on my recent RfA. It succeeded with a final tally of 72/2/0 and I am now an administrator. I'll be taking things slowly at first and getting used to the new tools, but please let me know if there's any adminnery I can help you with in the future. —Whouk (talk) 18:16, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


I got one of these things on my talk page. I suppose I should pass it on since I'm an Esperanzan.


Hey, nice job there of trying to talk with me first before undoing my admin actions. It's not as if I haven't been online all night. --Cyde Weys 04:30, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, Cuba is still protected; I'm not certain whether you were attempting to revert Cyde's protection or simply to return the {{citation style}} tag, which Cyde removed in protecting (ostensibly inadvertently, but perhaps purposefully, in view of his views apropos of citation style, with which views I generally agree). In any case, thought I'd let you know; it's probably best that you return the protected tag, in order that some editor who happens upon the article and finds no "edit this page" link knows what's going on. Joe 05:55, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
As Joe says, Cuba is protected but you removed the protected tag. This doesn't seem right. -- Beardo 07:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Lulu of the Lotus Eaters' block

I've restored it as an uninvolved admin. Despite Cyde's involvement, Lulu did violate 3RR, and was deserving of a block. I'm opening a thread up at WP:AN; I'll link it here when I'm done writing it. Regards, Ral315 (talk) 06:19, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive248#Request for block review of Lulu of the Lotus Eaters. Ral315 (talk) 06:23, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Re: Signatures

Hey, no problem. Don't worry about it, this whole thing has brought up a lot more than just one person's sig and one person's block and it's become too heated (which is why I removed myself from the RFC in fact). No hard feelings, and thanks for the comment, Chuck(척뉴넘) 12:32, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

RfC 19

Thanks for making me giggle. As I think you suggested, having read your message I've removed it so as to minimise potential for further offence. --Tony Sidaway 14:03, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

A lost "national monument" and an administrative request

FYI, I thought you might be interested in a non-"National Monument" national monument I came across. I just started the article: National Monument to the Forefathers.

I also have a request for help from an administrator. As you know, last week I made the Template:Part-of. It occured to me that the few templates that put content in title space should somehow be grouped as a class, so I made the Category:Title templates. My problem is that two of the more prominent title templates, Template:featured article and [{{Coor title d]], are locked to non-administrators. I left messages on the template talk pages to add the category within NOINCLUDE tags, but no one seems to be checking the talk pages. Can/would you do this? — Eoghanacht talk 14:39, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

okay...I have to check this out...I added the category to the featured article template and it showed up on every featured article, so I guess I need to put it inbetween the noinclude brackerts?--MONGO 19:18, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, see the code for {{part-of}} for an example. The <noinclude> </noinclude> tags are already be there. Just place the new code above the interwikis for "featured" and below the other category for "coor title d".

For "featured article" add:

[[Category:Miscellaneous templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Title templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]

For "coor title d", just add

[[Category:Title templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]

Thanks. — Eoghanacht talk 19:29, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Noticed you were having trouble. See full code for templates at User:Eoghanacht/sandbox.
Yes, what you just did seems to work. For some reason many featured articles are now appearing in Category:Title templates, but I think they will go away as the database refreshes. Thanks again. — Eoghanacht talk 19:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Wiki's SVG Image Handling

Why do some SVG images display thumbnails, and others simply refuse to display thumbnails? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbaker6953 (talkcontribs)

Notice that it works fine at Interstate 210. The identical tag does not work for my SVG image. That's what I can't figure out.

I figured it out. It's bug 5463 in the wiki bugzilla. You have to do an action=purge on the image page first. Works fine now. - Jbaker6953 20:02, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Interested in so many things that I could spend 16 hours a day writing in Wikipedia and not cover everything. I do have a strong interest in public lands issues and environmental causes. - Jbaker6953 20:21, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Successful Request!

Thank you!
Hello, MONGO/Archive09 — and from the bottom of my heart, Thank you for your support on my recent Request for Adminship. We succeeded with a final tally of 85/11/6 and I am now an administrator. Don't forget to let me know what I can do for you. Bastiqueparlervoir 11:47, 17 May 2006 (UTC) Icon tools.png

User Page Changes

Per the numerous comments regarding potential proselytization on my user page, I have decided to remove entirely the section regarding the steps in my conversion to Islam. I welcome additional comments on what you believe may be construed as proselytization. Thanks in advance. joturner 23:04, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


Sorry it took me so long to get back to the Glacier national park article--I've been busy as all heck the past couple of days. Good job on the article, too. --RobthTalk 15:13, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

You bastard

I filled my dacks when I saw the octagon of doom. I mean, I wasn't fooled for five second, I'm talking at least twenty seconds before the "Awww... no way" kicked in. You bastard. ^_^
brenneman{L} 10:57, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Ha!--MONGO 11:11, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

That thing again

I was totally not going to bother you anymore with the ever annoying Churchill stuff. But then I saw you did some edits yourself, without my even prompting... so I felt less guilty about mentioning something :-).

Anyway, over at Ward Churchill misconduct allegations, there is an anonymous editor who repeatedly blanks all the parts where Churchill (or Churchill's defenders) make any comments in his own defense. Inasmuch as some "grounds" were stated in the edit summaries (and eventually on the talk page), they amounted to: "I don't like Churchill's tone". Well, actually, the blanking has narrowed over the course of several edits. It started out with about a dozen different paragraphs, then it went down to fewer. One of the blankings was a comment by Churchill on Thomas Brown, which I left deleted, since it's relevance was not pressing (and Churchill's tone was indeed particularly intemperate... though that should not automatically disqualify a direct quote). This editor has the IP addresses and (I assume the different IP addresses are innocent enough; either different locations or reassignment by his/her ISP... but the edit comments refer to each other in first person).

Now it's mostly narrowed to some comments by Churchill that aren't at all intemperate, that simply observe that Churchill is widely listed in the Citation index, and a critic named LaVelle is hardly listed at all. The IP editor rants hysterically about how Churchill's claims are libel/slander and nonesense like that, which hardly helps discussion. FWIW, I actually think Churchill's argument here is slightly ad hominem, or at least a not-completely-compelling, argument from authority. But as editors, it's not our job to present only "good" arguements made by directly involved parties to some issue. However Churchill himself decides to make his case is prima facie germane, just not necessarily convincing. And actually, I don't think an "argument from citation-index" is completely off base; relative prestige of scholars is sort of what we use to decide encyclopedic value, after all.

Anyway, I'm thinking maybe you can give a little nudge to the IP editor about the fact mass blanking at least borders on vandalism. I mean, it's not quite like the editors who replace an article with the word "gay" repeated a thousand times (have you seen Raul's Law about this?). But it is deletion of rather large swatches of material added by a number of editors (not just me), that have been in there for a while. I'm not sure if the fact the deletions obviously follow a political agenda make them more or less like vandalism. LotLE×talk 20:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


Hi, I'm not sure why you reverted my text adds to the Felix Rodriguez page but I've re-added it. Your edit was marked "anonymous" contribution but that is hardly true. I am a longtime prolific contributor to Wikipedia. If you would like to discuss why you think the material from the Miami Herald is not relevant or why you don't think my edit is best, I welcome hearing from you. Skywriter 21:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


I am pretty sure stuff like this is not aloud on Wikipedia, think you can do something about it... some people may take offense to this. [7] --GorillazFan Adam 21:19, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Request for Arbitration

I have filed a request for arbitration regarding TruthSeeker1234. [8]--DCAnderson 21:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow, this arbitration request is really turning into a circus.--DCAnderson 19:21, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

My User Page

Is there any way to get my userpage restored? Cyde deleted it without warning. Jerry G. Sweeton Jr. 03:33, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe ask him about it...I prefer not to wheel war over the issue.--MONGO 03:37, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks anyway Jerry G. Sweeton Jr. 03:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


Did you send me one..? If so, please do re-send it. -ZeroTalk 17:59, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay. The brief glimse I saw must have pertained to the WIKI-EN mailing list. I'm always in such haste to remove the hundreds upon hundereds of replies, sometimes I neglect to open legitimate e-mail. -ZeroTalk 18:11, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Oh believe me, I'm better off this way. Its encouragement like yours and Tony's that make bouncing back all the easier when stuff like this transpires. Why, if I quit wikipedia because of a troll, where would I be..? Why depriving the project of good and productive contributions, and no good character. Think of me as a car engine's piston if it helps. I keep going for the greater good, but everyonce in awhile, I'll rust out and need some oil. And then I'm back at it. I cannot cease; there are many other things that need to be done. -ZeroTalk 20:57, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


Wikipedia:Requests for Comment/Elkman is about a fiasco I caused on Esperanza two weeks ago, as cited in User talk:Dot Bitch just recently. I'm still working on it; my apologies for posting something that's not finished yet. --Elkman - (talk) 04:30, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Truthseeker Block

Mongo, I invite you to reconsider blocking Truthseeker. It is completely unwarranted. Seabhcán 20:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Chavez and Glacier

Hi, Mongo ... I've been traveling a lot and have only been able to semi-keep up in maintenance mode. I'm seriously jet-lagged, but will look at Glacier in the morning. Thanks for the reminder ! Sandy 01:07, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I had a look only at the lead section tonight, as I recall thinking it had too much detail. It still contains, "Of the 150 glaciers believed to exist in the park in 1850, only 27 glaciers remain and they are all in a state of rapid retreat.[2] This well documented glacier retreat has inspired climatologists to make the park a center for climate change research." which would seem to be better placed in the body rather than in the lead - it just seems to provide more detail than called for in a lead. My only objection earlier was that the lead contained too much detail ... Sandy 03:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


Since you edit the article, I thought you would be interested that Scholars for 9/11 Truth is up for Afd. Morton devonshire 01:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


Take a look at this sneakiness: [9] and subsequently this. Cheers! --HappyCamper 14:27, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Yup, I thought that was rather funny actually. I had quite a bit of fun today...first WoW, then WiC, then a bunch of cut and paste vandals...Today was quite an adventure! --HappyCamper 17:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Your hidden Past

I had no idea you were a communist. Should I be worried? Please help! --D-Day(Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too?) 19:25, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Merci beaucoup!

Thank you, MONGO/Archive09!
Thank you for voting for my recent RfA, which passed (to my extreme surprise and shock) with a total tally of 66/15/2. For that, I would like to thank you and offer a helping hand in any admin-related tasks that may be required -- it's as simple as leaving a message on my talkpage. Thanks again! -→Buchanan-Hermit/!? 22:34, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

TruthSeeker1234 Journalism

I am indeed writing an article about my experience here, about Wikipedia in general, and about 9/11 articles in particular. I did write a draft a few weeks ago, however there is much more to write about now, so I have held off on seeking a publisher. Since you and other administrators are partly the subject, I offer you the opportunity to dialog with me, to be interviewed by phone or email. Prior to seeking publication, I will make a copy available to you, and ask for any corrections, clarifications, or comments that you wish to make.

Contrary to your concerns, this is not meant to be a "threat" of any kind. I am merely exercising free speech, and of the press. I find WIkipedia very interesting. Many people enjoy being the subject of articles.

Of course you are under no obligation to dialog with me at all, and I would never violate your privacy. I hope this clears up the questions you have voiced on other pages.

TruthSeeker1234 22:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I understand you equate my journalism with a legal threat. I am baffled at the comparison, and I repeat it is not my intention to threaten you or anyone. I am sincere that you will have every opportunity to review anything I write that concerns you. I will also make my real name and contact information available to you. I hope that is reassuring that my writing will be of a high journalistic standard. I have been published in the past (on subjects unrelated to 9/11 and Wikipedia), but I do not currently have a publisher for this piece. I will seek one at the appropriate time.

I bring all of this up now, so as to be above board, so that it does not come as a surprise to you TruthSeeker1234 01:10, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

MONGO, you have voiced your opinion that my jounalism would be grounds for a permanent block. I certainly don't want that! Nor do I want to give up my Constitutional right to free speech, and of the press. I don't see any WP policy on the subject. Is there any policy you can link me to?

TruthSeeker1234 21:52, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

You have a constitutional right to free speech.

You don't have a constitutional right to edit Wikipedia.

Decide what is more valuable to you.--DCAnderson 22:07, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

But if you're interested, this same issue is under debate at Wikipedia talk:No personal attacks.--DCAnderson 22:10, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't see anything about journalism on the No Personal Attacks page. Am I missing something?TruthSeeker1234 22:23, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Off Wiki Personal Attacks--DCAnderson 22:31, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Let me be very clear. It is not my intent to issue personal attacks against MONGO, Tom Harrison, DCAnderson, or anyone else. This holds for what I write here, and for what I write anywhere else. My journalism will have nothing whatsoever to do with the personal lives of the editors here. It will strictly focus on the issues. Again, I am interested in Wikipedia in general, and 9/11 in particular. It's very interesting.
I have no idea why DCAnderson or anyone would ask me to "decide what is more valuable" to me - editing Wikipedia or my Constitutional rights. This seems like a false choice, and I wonder if DCAnderson feels that he/she has to give up his/her Constitutional rights in order to edit Wikipedia. I am very confused. TruthSeeker1234 22:34, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Well I was just trying to direct you to a debate on policy that I thought you might find interesting because it is relevant to you and what you want to do.

The issue is, is that whether or not you have the right to do something is irrelevant. You can go ahead and publish your book, no one is stopping you.

However, Wikipedia is a private organisation and can kick people out for whatever reason they feel like, so if you publish your book, and you mention Wikipedia users, and it comes across as a personal attack, Wikipedia can ban you. This is perfectly legal.

You stil have your right to free speech though, you published your book. Now just because you havea Right to do something, doesn't mean you can't suffer consequences for doing it. All that means is the US Government can't pass legislation to stop you.

Wikipedia is not the US Government, so it doesn't apply to them.

And I'm not trying to say whether it is right or wrong, I'm just telling you what the situation is.--DCAnderson 22:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes I understand. WIkipedia does indeed have the right to include or exclude anyone for any reason, or for no reason at all. No argument. Wikipedia does claim to be bound by its internal policy. I was asking which policy of WP you thought might be violated by my jounalistic efforts. You have answered that, thank you. I will not issue personal attacks against anyone, here or anywhere. It's all about the relevant issues. I would be happy for someone to write an article about my efforts here, so long as I was quoted in context. MONGO, Tom Harrison, DCAnderson, I still intend to write about my experience here. I will not attack you personally. I will give you the opportunity to respond and make clarifications, as I have promised.
Other than NPA, is there any other policy that any of you are concerned about?TruthSeeker1234 00:22, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

EWS23's RfA

Hi MONGO! I was honored to have your support at my request for adminship. When I got support from very experienced editors such as yourself, I knew I must've been doing at least something right. :o) Thanks again, and if there's ever anything you feel I could be doing better, please leave me a message. EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 23:59, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

NWR proposal

I responded to your proposal on my talk page. ClarkBHM 01:12, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Re: Glacier

Yeah! We did it! Congratulations! I'm always willing to help out with other articles, if you're interested. --Elkman 02:15, 24 May 2006 (UTC) Congratulations! What a fine article. Best wishes, Walter Siegmund (talk) 05:17, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Moby Dick RFC deleted

Since the Moby Dick rfc was deleted due to technical reasons and you had participated on it, you may want to look at WP:ANB/I#Sock_investigation. --Cat out 08:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


Thanks, I'll check it out. Tom Harrison Talk 12:10, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Probation related query.

As you may have noticed, Hamster Sandwich is currently unable to regularly access Wikipedia, hence I feel that it would be best for me to direct any questions regarding my Probation to you-since you have been most involved with me during my time on Wikipedia. For the past two weeks since I was unblocked, I have confined my edits solely to Articlespace and have steered clear of any trouble. Do you think it is time for me to be allowed to edit other areas of Wikipedia excluding user-talk pages, user-pages, RfAs or talk-pages which have a dispute warning mentioned on them? Perhaps I may initially be allowed to edit the Wikipedia namespace to assess my conduct there. Also can you confirm whether my probation is in fact only scheduled to be in place for one month following the date of my unblocking? Thank you.User:Prasi90Flag of India.svg 12:40, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Oooh pretty

Thank you - that is a beautiful woodpecker. Thank you! I've got a few new pictures of the Chrysler Bldg and environs (including one from right out front - very dramatic) if you're not already on image overload :) -- User:RyanFreisling @ 23:53, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Does this ever happen to you?

Is there a bug in the edit counter? For instance, it says that my "top number of edits" is on the Carlsten Fortress article. From the page history of that page you can clearly see that I have never once editted it. When I click "contributions" on the edit counter I see that they actually mixed up the Ollanta Humala page (for which I have made a considerable number of edits) with that page.--Jersey Devil 01:09, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

  • I think there's been some kind of database problem with the toolserver not correctly replicating the enwiki_p database. I haven't relied on it lately, but I just checked it. Apparently, all of my RfA votes have been posted to Diglossia in the Philippines, and Niko Williams is a bridge in St. Paul. On the other hand, the largest number of edits I've made has been to Glacier National Park (US), which is correct. Weird. --Elkman 04:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

What I really came here to comment on...

I've taken a look at Redwood National and State Parks, and I'll keep an eye on it for things I can add to it. I haven't traveled to the park, so I'm not familiar with it -- but I can do some research. I don't know if I'll have a lot of time to work on it because I'm kind of busy with some other projects (on Wikipedia, as well as around my house), but I'll do what I can. --Elkman 04:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Nice work

Really excellent job on Glacier National Park and the large number of associated pages. Congrats! --Geologyguy 14:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Different bats

Apparently the ones I see down here are Mexican Free-tailed bats, not Gray bats. Who knew? Still, bats should have a bat cave, not a bat bridge. Tom Harrison Talk 13:07, 27 May 2006 (UTC)



Though I have to say, you've done quite a fine job of defending Wikipedia too.

--DCAnderson 04:25, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Cited you on 'Election' RfAr

FYI. You are welcome to comment, etc, as you see fit. I thought it appropriate to inform you I was using your words. Thanks! -- User:RyanFreisling @ 04:31, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

That Chrysler Building image I mentioned

Keep looking up!


Links to the sites critical of Phil/WP

If you think maintaining the links is bad form, I'll remove them. I don't want to appear to support unfair off-wiki accusations, no matter how acrimonious my current dispute with Phil may be. Thanks for the constructive advice. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 05:20, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh I see. I must confess to a real cluelessness about these intrigues, trying to assiduously avoid any off-wiki WP-related places. And Kate's departure was a real loss, and a pretty needless one imho. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 05:27, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Don't get me started with the Empire State Building

New York's cityscape, looking South from 57th Street
From the same vantage point, looking North
A bit earlier in the day. Lovely shading.

I'm going to have to do some nature shots besides NYC flowerboxes... perhaps a tour of America's great national parks :) -- User:RyanFreisling @ 06:13, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments in Lar's RfA!

Legobrick.pngWe are here to build an encyclopedia!

Hi MONGO, and thank you for your succinctly positive comments in my request for adminship! With a final tally of (109/5/1), I have been entrusted with adminship. It's been several weeks since the conclusion of the process, so hopefully you've had a chance to see me in action. Please let me know what you think! I hope to live up to the trust that "no reservations" implies. Thanks again! Oh, and please keep pranking Brenny, it cracks me up... (Better him than me!) ++Lar: t/c 03:25, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Adverts: Like The Beatles?... Like LEGO?... In a WikiProject that classifies?... Are you an accountable admin?... Got DYK?...

You're FAST!!!

Hi Mongo is it against wikipedia rules to promote people like brian bruns even if he is notable in the internet community? Please let me know and if I broke the rules im sorry I will erase what I wrote. C.B

User Page Award

  • I appreciate your comments about my userpage...but most of the credit goes to Phaedriel who designed the layout...all I have done is add to the existing template she used for the page. Anyway, thanks again, and hope you have a fine day. Happy editing!

You are welcome. :) I enjoy good user pages and think they help create a more pleasant and useful WP community. So, thanks for the effort (even if you didn't originate the design). –Frater5 (talk/con) 17:49, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Your revert on User:Thewolfstar

What was this for? It clearly says on Category:Wikipedia indefinitely blocked users with a significant edit history that it's consensus that pages of such users should be preserved - Thewolfstar (talk · contribs) obviously fits into this category, even if the later edits were more of the POV-pushing kind. I appreciate if you're involved in a previous dispute with that user personally, or just wanted to gain brownie points by supporting Bishonen, but it would be more civil if you at least discussed before reverting. --Col. Hauler 21:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Your revert on User:Sgrayban

You cannot say with a straight face that the user didn't make a sizable amount of positive contributions, personal conflicts aside: - He clearly belongs in Category:Wikipedia indefinitely blocked users with a significant edit history. --Col. Hauler 22:01, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I know *I* could say it with a straight face. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Blnguyen's RfA

100px Hello MONGO. Thank you for your support at request for adminship which ended at the overwhelming and flattering result of (160/1/0), and leaves me in a position of having to live up to a high standard of community expectation, especially with so many veteran users like yourself supporting it. Naturally, if I make any procedural mistakes, feel free to point them out and I look forward to working with you in the future, Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 06:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Seabchan is officially better than every one else


It's true.--DCAnderson 15:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Instead of wasting time here, you might try actually reading the reports. Seabhcán 16:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the nighttime view of Omaha!

Looks like a pretty fun town :) And the blurriness made me feel like I had already had a night on the town :) One tip (you probably know this already, feel free to ignore): use a tripod for night shots, 'cause you'd have to be heavily sedated not to move the camera during the longer exposure. Or rest the camera on a flat surface and use a timer if you can. Night shots are amazingly better. And your advice about fleshing out some articles on notable NYC spots with photos is a good idea. I'm going to do some content spelunking! I've also got lots of great photos of other places, so I'm always on the lookout for other articles to adorn as well. The trick for me - don't put too many photos on an article, and make sure each picture stands on its own. :) Anyway thanks for the tantalizing view of nighttime Nebraska, and try to take one with a tripod (they can be had for very little money these days, and mine is a portable that folds to less than 6 inches x 1 inch. Talk to you soon! -- User:RyanFreisling @ 16:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I've got to party with you in that town, buddy. :) -- User:RyanFreisling @ 04:14, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


Just to let you know, I'm deeply offended and disturbed by your conduct on 7 World Trade Center, and I've taken my complaint to Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Problems_with_User:MONGO. --Hyperbole 07:18, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Friendly warning

REgarding large-scale deletions of comments from AN/I, let me just give you a friendly reminder that NPA policy on removal of comments indicates that the preferable option is to remove or comment out the offending words, if the commentary as a whole is viable.

As I consider that a fair comment on Slimvirgin's behavior, I have removed the two obvious personal attack words from it. Please do not remove the user's comments, however. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 12:26, 31 May 2006


(Here's a message that isn't about admin stuff or flamewars.) I haven't had a lot of time to look at the Redwood National and State Parks article lately -- it seems like I've had too many other things to work on. I checked my local library to see if they had any books on the national parks, but I didn't find anything appropriate. I'll keep an eye on the article anyway, and contribute if I have time, but I just wanted to let you know that I probably won't be able to put a major amount of work into it. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 20:40, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

"POV fork"

A POV fork is a version of an article rewritten to fit a certain POV. A list of people who prefer a certain version isn't the same thing. I don't think what you're doing fits in WP:CSD rules; you need to take it to WP:MFD. Ashibaka tock 23:30, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

The page you deleted isn't a POV fork of any article, though, it's just a little petition of his. Look at it yourself. Ashibaka tock 00:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:No personal attacks Ashibaka tock 00:29, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

8 World Trade Center

There never was an 8 World Trade Center. If the Zogby poll asked questions about it, my guess is that people would have wanted the destruction of 8, 9, and 10 World Trade Center investigated as well by the 9/11 Commission. patsw 04:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

With the way they phrased the WTC7 question, yah probably. That poll was complete BS. But effective BS: we'll probably have someone use "Well half America believes this!" as justification for including whatever crap they just read on a blog at least every three days from now until the end of time.--DCAnderson 04:12, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that is correct. These people aren't here to make the article better, they are just here to force their POV...but you already knew that. It is just hijacking attempts, but unfortunately, a few of them I fear, either hate the U.S. they want to believe the conspiracy theory nonsense, or they are simply not very intelligent and can't understand the truth. It's not like I go around misrepresenting the evidence as they I don't really have much reason to feel very embarrassed by my commentary.--MONGO 04:20, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Of course it is my goal to improve every article I work on, MONGO. Your assumption of bad faith is insulting. You might take note that I wrote nearly the entire "collapse" section of that article in its current, agreed-upon incarnation and was also the first to list the tenants of the building. My reason for persistently trying to get the demolition POV represented is that I have concluded that a sufficient number of people hold that POV that Wikipedia demands more weight than a mere link for it. In other words, I continue to try to improve the article, despite your endless barrage of personal attacks, insults, assumptions of bad faith, sarcasm, and general nastiness. --Hyperbole 00:19, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Well I don't necescarily think that the other side really makes their edits out of sheer maliciousness. As near as I can tell, they really honestly believe that they are helping. Which is noble in and of itself, but it unfortunately makes editing Wikipedia very dificult. But hey, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that.

The other problem is that they make it very dificult to judge legitimate criticism that should be included in articles because of the signal/noise ratio that they create and which makes us have to be extra bitchy gatekeepers.--DCAnderson 06:39, 1 June 2006 (UTC)