User talk:Mangoe

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search


I have decided that I will no longer archive my talk page. Most sections will be deleted within one week of their conclusion. Mangoe (talk) 03:40, 1 April 2013 (UTC)


Hi Mangoe,

thanks for your offer to work together in the article. I am working now in Fjords and channels of Chile. I try to put all the channels in one map, it is not easy. I will talk to you when I have more time. Thanks, --Best regards, Keysanger (what?) 14:22, 15 April 2013 (UTC)


This place is beyond redemption. Even after I'd pointed out that Tsering Dolma Gyaltong is pretending to be the Dalai Lama's sister, the articles still get kept, even though they were written by the same person who and based upon the same sources which told us this lie. All these people should be banned for spreading misinformation. (talk) 02:11, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for that, Mangoe. However, the entire paragraph is false. Compare the WIkipedia passage…
Due to the Invasion of Tibet by the Chinese and the ongoing treatment of the Tibetans. On the 17th of March 1959, the day that the Dalai Lama began his escape from the Norbulingka Palace, The Tibetan Women’s Association, of which Tsering was a Founding Member carried out a street demonstration with 500 of its members. Due to this, Tsering is said to have been 'instrumental' in creating the diversion to get Dalai Lama out of Tibet in 1959.[4] Tsering is also the sister of the Dalai Lama."
…to the sketch biography given on the Grandmothers' website:
"Tsering Dolma was born in Tibet in 1929. Because of the Communist invasion of Tibet, she escaped along with her family from Tibet in 1958 to India. In 1972, she and her family (four children) came to Canada as refugees. She returned to India and became one of the founding members who revived the Tibetan Women’s Association (TWA).During the next ten years, she served as an executive member of TWA and established over 30 branch offices worldwide. In 1995, Tsering Dolma attended the Fourth World Women’s Conference held in Beijing, China. She faced many threats and dangers as she along with others openly criticized the Chinese government and its treatment of the Tibetan people and especially Tibetan women. She now resides in Toronto and remains as an advisor to the TWA.[1]
None of those dates match, do they? Note the switch of the original Tibetan Women's Association (which may not have even existed) for its revival. That's pretty much the entire lead, all fabricated.
This sketch bio contradicts both summaries:
“Tsering Dolma completed her schooling from CST Dalhousie, India. She worked as a teacher at Lekshedh-Tsal school in Pokhara, Nepal for more than a decade before joining Central Tibetan Women’s Association (TWA) as a Joint Secretary.She is the founding member and the President of Regional Tibetan Women’s Association, Jampaling. “[2]
Here's another sketch, from the Schafer book:[3]
So was she born in 1929 or 1933?
The source for the sister claim was none other than Agnes Baker-Pilgrim:[4]
Neither the Grandmothers nor the Wikipedia contributor who wrote these articles can be trusted. This is a huge problem as almost all of the material is based upon their self-published sources24.22.129.215 (talk) 20:46, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
Looking at some of these web pages (and it's been years since I saw that cloud background— I'm having 1990s flashbacks) it seems likely that we've got a conflation of several different people. The TWA picture and the one from the Schafer-quoting page don't look like the same person (and the TWA picture is of someone who is surely way too young). Googling for "Tsering Dolma" seems to pull up at least two if now five or six different people.
The sister claim isn't actually cited to Baker-Pilgrim in the MailTribune article. It doesn't show up in the nativevillage page either. At any rate it's plainly false so there's no need to worry about its source anyway.
Thank you for keeping on this. It looks as though I'm going to have to go after each of these pages, one at a time. Mangoe (talk) 21:55, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
If it's a conflation, it's one perpetuated by the Grandmothers themselves. From 12:30-12:50 of this interview with Baker-Pilgrim:
“Tsering Gyaltong, who is a Tibetan grandma who was instrumental in 1959 in creating a diversion to get His Holiness [Dalai Lama] out of Tibet…she is the one that started the Tibetan Women's Society…”
See also this page, and follow the links:[5] > "who we are". Unquestionably this is supposed to be the same person.
I think they're grifters playing to the childish preconceptions of a naïve crowd. Reconciling their various bio details may be impossible.. (talk) 23:09, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
Also, the articles are rife with plagiarism. These contributors need to be banned. Compare:
Wikipedia: “She has been honored as a "Living Treasure" by the Confederated Tribes of Siletz, and as a "Living Cultural Legend" by the Oregon Council of the Arts”
Evergreen bio: "She has been honored as a "Living Treasure" by her tribe the Confederated Tribes of Siletz, and as a "Living Cultural Legend" by the Oregon Council of the Arts.”[6]
Apropos, I would definitely not consider a write-up on Evergreen to be a reliable source. Anyone who's done this knows that they ask you what you want on your page, and you write it up (and Evergreen ain't Oxford.) (talk) 23:46, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
From Bernadette Rebienot: "Jyoti [Jeneane Pravatt], an American spiritual teacher who holds a PhD in clinical psychology…"
Not really:[7] [8][9] etc. This "degree" means nothing as it is illegal for her to practice. Well, it means that she's a fraudster, who else would run around bragging about a fake doctorate? (talk) 18:24, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

List of lighthouses in the States and state lists[edit]

There is a simple solution as implemented at List of casinos in the United States. Just include the data portion of the individual state lists into the master list. That way there is only one list to maintain and it appears the same in both places. The casino list is a sortable table which requires all of the state pages to have the same headings. If you are doing a simple list, the included text can be simpler. Your choice on how to move forward. If you need help, ask. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:50, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Re: Sula Benet[edit]

Aloha. I noticed you raised some interesting points about Benet on the recent ANI thread. When you have some free time, I was wondering if you might copy and paste the primary points here or on her talk page so they can be addressed at some point. For what it's worth, the academic community has fought long and hard against the simple idea that religion and religious beliefs may have origins in the cognitive archaeological and ethnobotoanical theories related to shamanism. This is probably because up until the secularization of the 20th century, the academic community was intimately connected to the religious community. However, I think the tide has turned, and these ideas are finally being accepted as these older academics reach the end of their life. While Benet may be wrong about many things, her central thesis isn't as fringe as you make it out to be. It is generally accepted that one of the simplest explanations for the origin of religion isn't the arrival of sky gods bearing laws and lessons, but the ingestion of psychoactive plants which altered consciousness and gave early humans new insights and novel ways of seeing the world. As strange as it sounds, this has actually been empirically tested, first with the Marsh Chapel Experiment and then with a followup study by Rick Doblin more than two decades later. The literature also seems to suggest that some people have endogenous mystical experiences without drugs (often due to physiological stress like an illness or NDE), which would probably be classified as mental illness due to the current abnormal psychology paradigm. Furthermore, when this type of stressful experience occurs in groups (such as military training), one can see firsthand how religions could have formed close bonds between adherents. Perhaps this kind of experience explains the Eleusinian Mysteries and its practice for a millennium. It's also possible that over time, ceremonies involving drug ingestion became profane, with empty ritual replacing the sacred rites. This seems likely when one considers the syncretism inherent in major world religions, and how their most basic, shared ideas (creation myths, fall of man, flood myths, etc.) can be traced to earlier cultures and religions which they adopted, modified, and changed to suit their circumstances. In any case, with or without drugs, altered consciousness, whether drug-induced or endogenous, provides a simple explanatory theory for the origins of religions and religious beliefs. Viriditas (talk) 06:41, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Regarding Qutbi Bohra[edit]

You are right there may be many succession issues that keep comming up and i agree that if this was just a succession issue it should not make it to the Wikipedia but if you see carefully what is going on under the guise of a succession issue. The concerned persons are creating a spiritual leader for a group, Progressive Dawoodi Bohra and its factions, which is a religious group but does not have spiritual leader. A strange situation which is being tried to be rectified by this succession issue, which is not a succession issue at all but a carefully planned strategy. Please read the article to understand what the issue is and please reconsider your opinion regarding the article. I have given all possible references in that regard. Araz5152 (talk) 16:42, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Red Bird River Shelter Petroglyphs[edit]

Just wanted to let you know that I'll be attempting a photo here in a few days. I'm to be driving from metro Chattanooga to Ohio on Saturday, and I'm planning on detouring through Clay County so I can try to get this site and the Fish Trap Rock as well. Now let's see if I can find them; I'll only get photos if I can find the sites from the road. Nyttend (talk) 04:36, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Research Invitation[edit]

Hello Mangoe,

We’d like to invite you to participate in a study that aims to explore how WikiProject members coordinate activities of distributed group members to complete project goals. We are specifically seeking to talk to people who have been active in at least one WikiProject in their time in Wikipedia. Compensation will be provided to each participant in the form of a $10 Amazon gift card.

The purpose of this study is to better understanding the coordination practices of Wikipedians active within WikiProjects, and to explore the potential for tool-mediated coordination to improve those practices. Interviews will be semi-structured, and should last between 45-60 minutes. If you decide to participate, we will schedule an appointment for the online chat session. During the appointment you will be asked some basic questions about your experience interacting in WikiProjects, how that process has worked for you in the past and what ideas you might have to improve the future.

You must be over 18 years old, speak English, and you must currently be or have been at one time an active member of a WikiProject. The interview can be conducted over an audio chatting channel such as Skype or Google Hangouts, or via an instant messaging client. If you have questions about the research or are interested in participating, please contact Michael Gilbert at (206) 354-3741 or by email at

We cannot guarantee the confidentiality of information sent by email.

Link to Research Page: m:Research:Means_and_methods_of_coordination_in_WikiProjects

Marge6914 (talk) 21:06, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

RfC List of Pantheists[edit]

Hi Mangoe, do you have experience starting RfCs? I haven't done it in a while and want to start one regarding Carl Sagan in List of Pantheists. I discovered that his son said he believed in the God of Spinoza/Einstein and added him back, only to be reverted by the same person who took him out a couple years ago (along with Einstein). If you're good at that sort of thing would you mind doing it? Thanks. NaturaNaturans (talk)

Hillary Rodham Clinton - Move Discussion[edit]


This is a notification to let you know that there is a requested move discussion ongoing at Talk:Hillary_Rodham_Clinton/April_2015_move_request#Requested_move. You are receiving this notification because you have previously participated in some capacity in naming discussions related to the article in question.

Thanks. And have a nice day. NickCT (talk) 18:44, 26 April 2015 (UTC)