User talk:Mathglot

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My editing tips.


Let's try SuggestBot once[edit]

This ( {{User:SuggestBot/suggest}}) should get me some suggested articles to work on, if I've followed the SuggestBot doc correctly.

Now let's see what happens. Mathglot (talk) 09:31, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

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3 1.0 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Unassessed, Predicted class: Stub Middleton Cemetery (talk) 0.0 Please add more content 0.0 Please create proper section headings 2.0 0.0 Please add more wikilinks 0.0 Please add more sources Stub
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List of state leaders in 1947 - French Co-Prince[edit]

Note to self: User talk:Zoltan Bukovszky edits many articles about world leaders. He claims Léon Blum was French Co-Prince of Andorra and I claim there's no WP:RS that supports that

Mathglot (talk) 03:19, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Re: following[edit]

My sincerest apologies. I just couldn't believe Sandra would go out of her way to repeat her claims on a topic that had nothing to do with the train attack article (and therefore, herself (she didn't even get herself involved before then)). I was pretty frustrated. Versus001 (talk) 06:06, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi @Versus001:, in response to your message: No need to apologize to me, I didn't see anything offensive to me personally, I just thought you'd be a more effective advocate for your own cause by staying calm. I understand your frustration, but believe me, it's the best course of action. After you log off, you can go crush a beer can, but try to keep a lid on it while in Talk. Again, I'm not castigating you, it's not my place to do so, and there's no reason to. This is just friendly advice, you'll be happier for it.
By the way, check the note at the top of my page; if we interact again, I prefer to keep conversations in one place, so if I talk to you on your page, just respond there with a ping, and if you talk to me on my page, I'll respond here (like I'm doing now) and ping you (like this: {{ping|Versus001}}) so you'll know there's something here for you to read. Mathglot (talk) 07:35, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

May I ...[edit]

ask if you do paid editing? Smallbones(smalltalk) 15:07, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

@Smallbones: Not a chance, sorry. Not sure whether to be insulted, or complimented because you feel my writing is of such quality that you think highly enough to want to compensate me to promote your company or for whatever pet project you have going on. Or are you picking editors randomly, and asking them this? I think WP policy seriously frowns on this sort of thing. Whatever possessed you to contact me about this? Mathglot (talk) 20:31, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Now I see what this is about; an accusation—of me!—being a paid editor! See User talk:Smallbones#Recant your accusation of Paid editing immediately. Mathglot (talk) 01:38, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
That's a question anyone can ask, it is not a slur we just ask that if you were a paid editor to point out the COI. It's a matter of good faith that works in both ways, SPA (Single Purpose Accounts) are allowed here if they edit within the guidelines. Demanding apologies for earnest and good faith questions is as ludicrous as forsaking those other editors merely because they are paid to be here. This place is like a fungus and grows on you so one day a paid editor may sample the other roses and just as often some take medication to eradicate the fungus that has grown ;). There are a few long term editors very esteemed (depending on who you ask ) that are paid to edit. An example is one of our site admins User:Jehochman I'm linking his userpage as you can see he puts what he conflict of interests are which is a little different then paid editing it just puts it on the table for everyone. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 01:57, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
I reject your analysis that "it is not a slur [if] we just ask if you were a paid editor." It's only natural that a statement like that appearing on this page might lead respected editors reading it to stop and wonder about my possible status as a paid editor, and wonder why anybody would ask such a question if there were no truth to it, whereas up until now no one has had any reason to wonder about that. "Where there's smoke, there's fire", right? Of course it's a slur if made without evidence, it's absurd to imagine that it is not.
I don't believe that there is any decent, respectful way to ask "Are you (or, were you) a paid editor" on someone's talk page with zero evidence, that doesn't leave a taint or odor of possible serious misbehavior. (However, I would totally be fine with the placing of such a statement if instead one had written, "We believe you may be a paid editor based on your work on Article due to these diffs[1][2][3][4][5], are you?" if a good-faith effort had been made to investigate and find evidence and include it on the talk page along with the question.) However, this was not what happened. No effort was spent, no investigation was done, it's a bare question/accusation with no evidence whatever. Perhaps (and this is pure speculation on my part) it was done out of a desire to save time by skipping the time-consuming investigative part on the part of a busy editor who has done plenty of good work rooting out paid editors, based on their sixth sense of who is likely to edit on a certain type of article (Vemma, for example). However, nobody is perfect, and they made a mistake in this case by skipping the minimal investigation which would have quickly demonstrated the truth of the matter. By their misstep, they harmed my reputation, and they must take responsibility for undoing the harm, as I cannot credibly delete the accusation myself. I'm simply asking for recantation of a baseless accusation and an apology for the bother; that's it.
If you believe someone might be a paid editor, the proper way to do that, imho, is to do a bit of investigation, find some evidence of paid editing, and only then make the accusation (or "ask the polite question" if you prefer). I affirm your statement of "good faith works both ways" if by that you mean that when I defend my reputation and demand a retraction for a baseless accusation I am entitled to the very same assumption of good faith that I am making my demand for legitimate reasons based on policies and guidelines, and that it is right and proper for me to do so. The other editor has accused me falsely of something which is a violation of WP policy, however I have not accused the other editor of anything at all other than making a mistake, which is something we all do on occasion. Furthermore, this error can easily be rectified and it should be rectified, and then we can all go back to editing with no harm done. Mathglot (talk) 06:49, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────That's your choice I suppose but its a mountain out of a molehill in all reality, none the less its up to you how you percieve it, most members here will think it is a non issue. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 21:09, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

  • I agree with the comment immediately above. I just saw this discussion, such as it is, referenced on Smallbones' talk page. I don't know the background to this or how it came up, but sometimes one has to ask questions like that. I don't understand why you are making a fuss, and doing so seems to be an unwarranted accusation of bad faith on the part of the questioner. Coretheapple (talk) 18:34, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
"sometimes one has to ask questions like that"? How about... What is your real name, Coretheapple? I just have to ask. - Mister 2001:558:1400:10:B15A:74E8:F4BB:162B (talk) 14:40, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Template talk:Incoherent[edit]

There's movement at Template talk:Incoherent which needs my feedback. Mathglot (talk) 06:40, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:21, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

The Man from Snowy River[edit]

I have now added a special section to The Man from Snowy River (poem) article about the various adaptations of the poem, with a link leading to the disambiguation page. Hopefully this will cover the situation of the films and other adaptations being recognised - rather than just relying on the template for the information (as has been the case up to now). I hope that this helps. All the best. Figaro (talk) 11:08, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

I have now expanded the section for the adaptations of the poem, and have removed the link to the disambiguation page. I'd be interested to know what you think. Cheers. Figaro (talk) 10:47, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

April 2016[edit]

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  • publicized the cause of Tibetan resistance, with the Dalai Lama's eldest brother, [[Thubten Norbu]]), playing an active role in that organization. The Dalai Lama's second-eldest brother, [[Gyalo

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Copying within Wikipedia requires proper attribution[edit]

Information icon Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from 1959 Tibetan uprising into History of Tibet (1950–present). While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 19:46, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@Diannaa: Thanks for linking the guideline, it has some useful ideas and links to templates and suggested edit summaries. Actually, I thought I already did attribute my change to History of Tibet (1950–present). Previously unaware of the WP:CWW guideline, I simply followed my own instincts based on my general awareness of WP attribution policies, and provided the following edit summary for that edit:
Since this section previously began, "Reprisals for the 1959 uprising" without any indication of what it was, I adapted 5 sentences and 3 refs from 1959 Tibetan uprising to briefly describe it.
So now I'm confused. What else specifically would you have me do, that I have not already done? My edit summary seems rather more specific than the one suggested at the guideline, which is this:
copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution..
I named the source page, I counted the precise amount of content moved, and I gave the reason why. How is that not even stronger than the guideline calls for?
Now that I'm aware of WP:RIA and I'm happy to make any needed attributes ex post facto, but given the current situation, I'm at a loss to see what to do that I haven't already done. Copying was not extensive, so a note on the source page seems unnecessary, per the guideline intro. Unless you're talking about the stronger edit summary attribution example given in section List of authors, but since the source article was created in 2007 and has hundreds of edits since then it would be like searching for a needle in a haystack to find the exact edit that added that text to the source page. If it were simple to do, I suppose WP:CWW would have included a link or instructions on how to do it. If you know how to find the author of a specific edit in the past other than by a tedious search, please let me know. Is there a way to search previous history of an article for a specific string of characters?
I'll certainly keep the CWW guideline in mind in future edits, now that I know about it. For me, by far the most common case of text reuses is when I do translations, but a different attribution mechanism exists for that, namely use of the {{Translated page}} template; see for example here based on the Translation guideline.
If you have specific recommendations about how to improve the attribution per RIA or otherwise, please add or link them here. Thanks. Mathglot (talk) 20:48, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
The edit that triggered a bot report was not the one you mention, but rather this one. It's not necessary to list the individual authors of the source page. All you need to do is say in your edit summary where you got the content. For example, like I did here. Please do this in the edit summary each time you copy material from one Wikipedia article to another. — Diannaa (talk) 20:56, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
@Diannaa: Hm, that's odd, must've been a glitch of some sort; I almost never omit edit summaries on article changes, something must've happened there. Thanks for the link to the edit that triggered the bot report, it would have made things clearer and obviated the need for this exchange had the bot had originally reported to me the offending diff like you just did. If you know who maintains the bot, it would be helpful to pass that along as a suggestion. Mathglot (talk)

Censorship of the article about David Reimer[edit]

Removed the comment that was formerly here to avoid confusion, as it is a word-for-word duplicate of the comment already posted at User talk: under a different section header title. Mathglot (talk) 09:23, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Notre-Dame de la Garde[edit]

Hi, you reverted 1 link to a dead link, 1 link to an French site. Could You explain? bkb (talk) 05:41, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi, @Bussakendle:. Sure. The External links guideline requires that URLs listed in External links link to an existing website, i.e., links that do not exist on the internet or that never resolve are not helpful for improving the article. I dropped two links that were previously there: one link that 404s (webpage does not exist) and the other one that never resolves (spinner spins forever, browser cannot get the page from the server) as mentioned in the Edit summary for that change.
The removal was actually lenient and probably should have deleted one more link which still remains, because the External links guideline also discourages use of foreign language sites in External links, although there are some exceptions. I'm not sure that the French language link qualifies as an exception, but I've left it in for now.
Does this answer your question? Mathglot (talk) 07:21, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, really not, because of
whereas replacement for #3 Photos personnelles de Notre dame de la Garde. Photographies prisent par Thierry.A des Docks.{{'''deadlink'''}} is dead link!
bkb (talk) 09:04, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
Hi again, @Bussakendle:. Both External links at the article work perfectly since before you commented here. I'm sorry. I really don't quite understand what you're trying to say. I speak French (I assume that's your mother tongue); please repeat your question in French. Mathglot (talk) 09:17, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
@Mathglot: Bonjour, non, ma langue maternelle, c'est l'allemand. Regardez svp. en:WP, de:WP et aussi :fr:WP.
Selon ma opinion, les reverts etaient faux, parce qu'il vaut mieux donner des liens externes en langue anglaise qu'en langue francaise (si faisible, au moins partiellement}. De plus, le lien externe #3 se presente comme 'dead link', il n'existe pas. A bientôt.
bkb (talk) 10:35, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
@Bussakendle: Okay now I understand your language. With respect to your point, "It's better to provide external links in English" I agree completley, per WP:NONENGEL. That guideline does however allow for exceptions and this link may be one of them. If you want to delete it however, please be my guest, no need to get my approval for it.
The rest of what what you said makes no sense to me, although I understand your words perfectly. It's as though we are looking at two completely different article pages. In particular, this makes no sense to me:
"Furthermore, external link #3 is a dead link; it doesn't exist."
Whatever are you talking about? What page are you looking at? Do you have a browser cache problem showing an old version?
Look, this mutual confusion doesn't merit too many more words. Why don't you just go ahead and just make a bold edit to the external links section, and change it in any way you want to suit your taste. When you're done, tell me, and if I have a problem with it, I'll either change it back if there's something clearly against policy, or I'll raise any questions I have about it here.
Cordially, Mathglot (talk) 05:17, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Linking to sections with embedded slash[edit]

Hello Mathglot - I am the instructor for Writing in Women's and Gender Studies. You were kind enough to offer thorough, thoughtful and respectful comments to Student1543 on the Social construction of gender Talk Page this week. I thank you. You also offered very sound advice about linking to sections when engaging in extended conversations about article revisions. This is my first experience with Wikipedia, so I am learning along with the rest of the class. I want to share your advice about Anchor links, but when I look at the instructions at WP:Anchor, they don't seem to jive with the code I see you using in your response to Student1543. Could you clarify a point for me, please? When you are linking to the section titled "Gender identity and sexuality/sexual orientation, you use this code: (brackets eliminated so you see the code and not the link) -

Social_construction_of_gender#Gender identity and sexuality.2Fsexual orientation|GI&SSO

Since the section is the second time that title appears (once in the index), the Anchor instructions lead me to believe that the syntax should be:

Social_construction_of_gender#Gender identity and sexuality/sexual orientation_2|GI&SSO

But, of course, that doesn't work. Can you point me to instructions about the use of the ".2F" in your link? I can't seem to find it anywhere. I see that the auto-link feature has inserted a "(F)" in my own text above, but I don't know why and don't know how to identify a section. Apologies for not going to the teahouse. Since you know where you were and what you did, I thought this might be an easy and not too time consuming question. Thank you for any direction you can offer. Jagrif02 (talk) 17:26, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

@Jagrif02: You're very welcome. This is kind of an advanced topic, but basically WP sometimes acts differently in the Talk Namespace when it sees a slash character, depending on context. In simple text, a '/' is just a character like any other and is displayed as such. So you could write 'and/or' or '4/4 time' and so on, and it's all fine. Inside a link in Talk Space, however, Wikimedia software (which underlies Wikipedia and other project families) assumes by default that a slash is a subpage indicator, as in the name of your course for example, which is under the 'Univ' subpage (which is itself a subpage).
Now, in the article, someone chose a Section header with a slash in it, i.e., Gender identity and sexuality/sexual orientation and any section header in Wikipedia can be the target of a link. However, you cannot link to that section in the normal way because the slash will be interpreted as a subpage indicator. (In addition, the Manual of Style frowns on this usage for stylistic reasons, but that's not germane here.) What you need to do, is to tell the software NOT to interpret the slash character as special, but as a 'normal' slash character. (The software process of exceptionally treating a metacharacter as normal and not special is called escaping the character. Computer jocks in your class can explain more about this if interested.) So you need to escape the slash, and in this case the escaped slash is .2F.
If you want to know more about this topic, you could start at Help:Link#Disallowed characters, WP:WIKICODE, Wikipedia:Page name#Technical restrictions and limitations, and WP:NCTR especially section #Forward slashes and periods but this issue won't arise very often.
Hope this helps!
P.S. I've taken the liberty of adding a section name above your question, to set it off. Please see Help:Using_talk_pages#Sections.
P.P.S. When you want to see just the code and not the rendered link, use Template:Nowiki:
  • <nowiki>[[Social_construction_of_gender#Gender identity and sexuality.2Fsexual orientation|GI&SSO]]</nowiki>
Generally when doing that, I also add the {{code}} Template, which makes it look more like markup and less like running text:
  • <code><nowiki>[[Social_construction_of_gender#Gender identity and sexuality.2Fsexual orientation|GI&SSO]]</nowiki></code>
yields [[Social_construction_of_gender#Gender identity and sexuality.2Fsexual orientation|GI&SSO]] on the rendered page.
Mathglot (talk) 19:24, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank You[edit]

I just want to say thank you for your feedback in Social construction of gender. I appreciate your willingness to benefit and assist new editors through our process of learning. I plan to continue digging deeper into this article and could use your assistance if you are interested, but overall, just wanted to say thank you for your contribution. Student1543 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:34, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

@Student1543: You're welcome. P.S. Please use the 4-tilde version of the Signature which will automatically time stamp your edit. Mathglot (talk) 19:30, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Union de Todos (or, you say Potato and I say patata)[edit]

Hey mathglot what did I get wrong? I have been trying to do the neutral article about this obscure Spanish party from WP:PNT. I know it wasn't perfect but am doing it bit by bit as I usually do. Why did you just blank it? I was in the middle of doing the bottom fiddly bits. I am trying to keep it as neutral as I can. Si Trew (talk) 07:04, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

I can understand why you reverted it and I think you were right to say "Oh, oh". I thought the same myself. This was up at WP:PNT and so I tried to put the pieces of the puzzle together, and deliberately tried to convey it in a neutral way. I hope you can helpme with improving the article, some of the translations are very difficult when dealing with politics, but as I said at PNT I do think it needs an article on WP in the most neutral way we can. Si Trew (talk) 07:08, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
@SimonTrew: The problem is the WP:COI-taint. You realize that a translated article takes on the COI taint of the original, right? It's way too risky to throw away your time on this, as the whole thing will likely have to be deleted; or at least, anything that was written by Helen (founder of the party) which is just about everything. Why waste your time? (Ref: PNT) Mathglot (talk) 07:20, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
@SimonTrew: Two more edits since then? It makes me sad to see you waste your time like this, Simon. This is my last try. Please save your valuable time; don't throw it away on this! I'm going to bed.
P.S. I renamed the section header above; hope that's okay! Mathglot (talk) 07:31, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

!No problemo senor! We just had essentially an edit conflict but not an actual one, sorry I can't do the inverse ! and the cedilla and so on on this KB. I agree with you that it is a pile of junk, but sometimes to translate it shows it up to be a pile of junk – the thing is, you need to kinda delete it as a pile of junk and not because you disagree with any political view. That is going to be the hard one, but I reckon if you or I whack the leader of the party to CSD as non notable WP:POLITICIAN then the ladder is taken from under her feet. To my own view it sounds very kinda General Franco and what did he ever do for Spain? Okay reinstated the monarchy, got the trains running on time, etc... Si Trew (talk) 12:40, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Dear Mathglot, I have just been kinda rehabilitad into Wikipedia today so I said I would take a backwater of doing something at PNT or so forth rather than anything controversial... Not much luck there then! Si Trew (talk) 12:52, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
Oh, it totally might be notable, that's not the issue at all. And I'm not making any judgment on whether it's a pile of junk or not, as far as content is concerned. My only concern is that it may have to be removed purely for COI reasons, as it seems so transparently against the guideline. If, given all that, you don't *mind* spending your time translating it, well then, have fun! Mathglot (talk) 18:21, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
But we don't have an article at ES:WP for this, so where is the "original" to which you refer? Was it deleted at ES:WP? Wikidata gives me, without the accent on "Unión", just for gnoming I have marked the existing Union de Todos as {{R from title without diacritics}}, User:Noyster I think moved the page over to that with the diacritic, but I can't find any mention of it on ES:WP at all, where was the "original" then? ES:WP doesn't show it as a deleted page to me and I can't see any conflict of interest discussion about it neither at ES:WP nor EN:WP but I am probably looking in the wrong places... Is it because it was created with a username cunningly similar to the name of the president (User:HELEN MUKORO). ? That is not in itself a COI, I think, unless you take the view that someone is not allowed to write about anything they know about... User:Noyster has done some useful tidy up here while I have been out, it was very much a first pass translation when I left it, so may that user may have a view, too... we might want to move this discussion to its talk page? Si Trew (talk) 21:21, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
Hi, @SimonTrew:. The original version, as far as I can tell, is the article authored by party leader User:Helen Mukoro on English Wikipedia and which started out as a single sentence written in English. It was quickly expanded in Spanish by her and by others, notably by SPA account Aeccspain in this Spanish edit, and in others. Please see the numerous COI and other warnings on her Talk page regarding this article. Please feel free to move this discussion if you wish; I think it's a good idea. Mathglot (talk) 00:13, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Nomination of Transgender history (disambiguation) for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Transgender history (disambiguation) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Transgender history (disambiguation) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 01:50, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Pinged you at Talk:Transvestism[edit]

Hey, Mathglot. In case you have your ping notification turned off (some people might choose to turn it off), I'm letting you know that I pinged you about a matter at Talk:Transvestism. If you'd rather not weigh in, that's fine. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 11:29, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Template:Ill changes[edit]

Hi. {{Ill}} was recently redirected to {{Illm}} after a TfD discussion closed as merge, and the ordering of the parameters has slightly changed. I noticed that you used the old parameter order in an article after the change, and it's been corrected. You can read about the very small changes in the first section of the documentation at Template:Interlanguage link multi. Thanks! ~ Rob13Talk 20:58, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. Mathglot (talk) 21:05, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

Scale of justice 2.svg Hello, Mathglot. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)


Everybody is invited to the November 30 Bay Area WikiSalon[edit]

Details and RSVP here.

Bay Area WikiSalon series: Everybody is invited this Wednesday evening at 6[edit]

For details and to RSVP see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, December 2016

Reminder invitation to the December Bay Area WikiSalon[edit]

this Wednesday evening at 6 p.m.

  • Details (RSVP suggested) here

The full title of Jim's presentation was: Welcoming and Helping New Editors: A Month at the Wikipedia Teahouse: an overview of the Teahouse and an analysis of over 300 Teahouse conversations during the month of August, 2016

You are invited to a birthday bash to Celebrate Wikipedia's 16th Birthday![edit]

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The Bay Area WikiSalon is an unSalon this month![edit]

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See you soon! Ben Creasy, Nikikana, and Wayne | ( Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice ) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:30, 14 November 2017 (UTC)


Glad that someone is active at this much neglected page....I would say that you could just be bold and delist the articles you think are ready to be delisted without pinging the users who listed them in the first place; I for one would not be able to remember why I listed something in 2014. So, thanks again, and keep up the good work. Cheeers and happy editing. Lectonar (talk) 08:42, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Good point, thanks. Now that I have asked, I'll wait for a decent interval, and then delist if I haven't heard back. Mathglot (talk) 09:34, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Admin help for page move[edit]

Template:HelpMe-helped I need admin help for the following page move:

My attempt to move the article failed, because the target name exists (it's a redirect). Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 11:16, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

I've completed the move for you. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:06, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, User:RickinBaltimore! Mathglot (talk) 21:45, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Talk page move needed[edit]

This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can ask another question on your talk page, contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse.

Can User:RickinBaltimore or another admin help me move the Talk page over as well? (I assumed that would happen automatically with the previous request.)

What we have now, is an odd-couple, with the newly renamed article (now called Anti-Hungarian sentiment after the move) paired with an old Talk page with that name. To complete the move, we need Talk:Hungarophobia to be moved to Talk:Anti-Hungarian sentiment, and the current page occupying that spot being moved somewhere or archived. Thanks. Mathglot (talk) 21:57, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

 Done Huon (talk) 22:27, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Template requests[edit]

This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can ask another question on your talk page, contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse.

Where do I advertise a request for a change to a template?

I've already described my desired changes to {{Duflu}} here. Now, I want to advertise it so Template writers can find it. (I've already seen Wikipedia:Edit requests#Requests for templates and it's not relevant because the template is not protected and I don't have a COI; nor does it answer the question.) Where do I do that? Mathglot (talk) 08:43, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

You can try Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Templates, but in general, if a template is not protected, we're supposed to figure it out ourselves. The only difficult part here is getting from the language to the code, and I would assume a template for that already exists somewhere. Huon (talk) 14:10, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
I took another look, and we have Template:ISO 639 name which translates the ISO code into the name, but not a template that does the other direction. That template relies on a huge number of sub-templates given in Category:ISO 639 name from code templates, and some of those sub-templates in the other direction exist in Category:ISO 639 code from name templates. So it would be possible to create a duplicate of the "ISO 639 name" template for the other direction with a scope limited to (right now) 26 languages. Huon (talk) 20:04, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, Huon, that was helpful. I followed the breadcrumbs, and ended up listing the request at WP:RT, so we'll see what happens. If ISO 639 template doesn't already exist in the reverse direction, I'd hate to burden someone with it just for this one template, especially since there's a workaround. Mathglot (talk) 22:38, 18 February 2017 (UTC)


A warm Thank you! for your comments at ro.wikipedia regarding the Luizianashop article :) Wintereu 23:12, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

A cookie for you![edit]

Choco chip cookie.png Thank you for the help and suggestions! :D TheSandDoctor (talk) 06:33, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

N. a pris les dés...[edit]

Hi. Mind translating this short article from the Italian wiki? If it would be possible, could you please also kindly upload the film's poster? Many thanks in advance!-- (talk) 18:15, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

PS: My IP address just changed, so, please contact me at-- (talk) 10:34, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
Saw you undid my deletion. Just wanted to say that the article has already been translated by another editor.-- (talk) 19:50, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
Noted, thank you. Mathglot (talk) 20:38, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Adding an accent to a Subject Title[edit]

On the Wikipage Adela Vazquez there should be an accent over the a in Vazquez, or Vázquez. But I don't know how to change the title. I am hoping you can help. Thank you! Juamari (talk) 17:48, 29 March 2017 (UTC)Juamari

@Juamari: Done. Read details on how to do that at WP:MOVE. Mathglot (talk) 17:59, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

translation tool discussion[edit]

look here Elinruby (talk) 00:39, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

@Elinruby: Oops, I think. Hadn't really seen your last before I added a comment, and, um, not sure I helped; looks like I might've hindered. Hope you're not mad you pointed me there. Don't want to be a thorn; I can shut up over there, if you want. As I look into it a bit more, it seems to be about a pretty arcane point regarding a temp speedy delete policy, that S Marshall wants to see adopted. What do you think should happen to all these (3,500?) articles?
Note to self: WP:ANB#WP:AN/CXT referring to the "X2" temp speedy deletion policy revision in order to handle a backlog of crappy translations introduced by people using mw:ContentTranslation tool during a several month period in which MT was enabled, and crap flooded into en wiki. Mathglot (talk) 08:48, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
@Mathglot: Yes but. While that is a true statement for certain values of "true" and "crap", the thing is, what is being described as "crap" is often not in fact crap. I believe they are using the term as a shorthand for "unsourced BLP", and sure, those present a problem. But the reason for the BLP policy is libel, and the BLP is being applied to articles about Renaissance astronomers.The corollary being posited, that if these articles were any good they would not have been created with the content tool, is simply false in my opinion. Are we better off knowing that the Nazis staged an art exhibit to "educate" the French public on identifying "Jews and other unwholesome elements", supposedly? At a time when the word propaganda is being bandied about/ I think so personally, although there are some on that list that I myself flagged as issues, and in the case of the man named as a Nazi collaborator, possibly libelous. Interestingly, the same person making this proposal wanted to keep that one, but let's not read anything into that since I also wound up concluding that the sources were sufficient to support the statement. *That* article is still on this list. The guy is simply tired of plowing through these articles, and in some cases who could blame him? That one on the animal magnetism of Jesus really needed to go. In others, it is less certain. There are a number of stublets about various 16th century mathematicians. Maybe we should combine these. Not sure. But is the Medici equivalent of Dr Dee (I think) a notable figure? I am inclined to think so, but I don't speak either Hungarian or Italian and I don't want to pay three figure JSTOR fees to rescue the topic. Bear in mind that once there is a speedy delete the burden of proof shifts and the article cannot be created in future unless some wiki bureaucracy approves. Assuming that should be true of certain articles, the set of articles that should be deleted is not identical to this list.
I am open to negotiation on any strategy that does not involved deleting them all. Some may well belong on WP:PNT or something like it. If that means putting some of them in a temporary draft space until they are assessed/fixed, because they are considered to not meet a minimum standard, then so be it. Make it so. Some of them definitely need work. But *my* point -- I haven't yet looked to see what if anything happened there, just responding to the notification of your question at the moment --- is that wholesale deletion of all of these articles, including the one I worked on full-time for days, does not solve the problem of too few translators. The tools are out there, people will use them. Some of the articles on the list not written by me are excellent as well. Is my opinion of double-ratchet algorithm not meaningful and if that is the case why are we burning translator time working on these articles if the consensus is that automation bad, nuke them all. C'est trop façile. If English Wikipedia doesn't want to listen to its very few translators about the translation process -- then why bother working on it, and I *really* don't want to hear any more crap about demographic diversity on Wikipedia. Let me go read the noticeboard now -- sorry to drag you into this but doesn't it seem to you that it would be easier to recruit more translators than ot guard Wikipedia against .. bah. Biting my tongue. Elinruby (talk) 21:10, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Hi Elinruby, and thanks for your thoughts. I'm still new to this board, so I have to try and understand more about what's going on there, and think about how best to help, and support you, but I need time to try and understand it all. The part that's easy to understand, is yes to getting more translators, and yes to any strategy that avoids deleting all the articles. The other thing that was an easy yes, was this: "But the corollary being posited, that if these articles were any good they would not have been created with the content tool, is simply false in my opinion." Agree with you, that corollary is obviously false. Where do I go to weigh in on that and support you?
The part about WP not wanting to listen to translators, can you explain more about that? I've certainly run into that outside WP, people who aren't multilingual think they understand but they just don't. I can imagine that more general phenomenon reflected in WP as Rfc's or votes or opinions by people in various Talk pages opining on things that they just have no idea about. But that's just it, I haven't been involved, so I don't know what WP is or isn't doing as far as listening to translators. If you have a handy reading list with a bunch of links to get me up to speed (as in, "Here, read these 20 discussions: link, link, ....") I'd love to have it. I can see that you've been involved for some time in this, and perhaps getting jaded by it, don't be; I'll try and help out, I just feel I have a learning curve to deal with here, as far as the history of discussions about this on WP, who's who, and all that.
I speak some Italian (and less Hungarian) so might possibly be able to have a look at those articles, if you want to tell me which they are, and what needs to be looked at.
One specific thing I didn't understand: "it would be easier to recruit more translators than to guard Wikipedia against .. bah. Biting my tongue." To guard WP against what? Why bite your tongue? Btw--feel free to write me privately via email for anything you'd rather not share publicly, if there's anything on your mind (about this, or anything else).
Don't be sorry. How do I best help you on this? Mathglot (talk) 21:47, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
@Mathglot: Feeling patronized and undervalued by the one dude. The other guy less so but I HAVE SAID ALL THIS BEFORE. I actually don't see why I need to notice this discussion or tell you about it...or have this discussion again. If we need a translation policy well then let's have a good one. Let's talk to some translators, hmm? Why is that hard? If the problem is scale the issue isn't tools, it's making it so the tools are better employed. Just remembered that your page is where I saw the Noisebridge meetup. Is that still on? Are you in the area? Need to take my own advice and take a break from this. Headed back into Dada for a bit. Elinruby (talk) 22:22, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
What one dude; what other guy? You don't have to have the discussion again, I'm just trying to understand. Is "one dude" and "the other guy" someone who replied at WP:ANB#WP:AN/CXT, or is this a different discussion? The one thing I did understand from what you said, was: "If we need a translation policy well then let's have a good one. Let's talk to some translators, hmm?" Yes, of course; do you need me to weigh in on a particular point in that discussion?
Noisebridge was Wednesday. Normally WikiSalon is held every last Wednesday of the month downtown. You can sign up to get notifications here; would be nice to see you at one of them. Mathglot (talk) 23:04, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
I have to be in BC the weekend before that but I will come if I am back. If not the following month, most likely.... Going to get serious about this CXT thing now Elinruby (talk) 03:19, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Le Juif et la France[edit]

I believe "public affairs" is intended to mean an announcement in the public interest. It bothered me the first time through but I could not think of a better translation. I believe "public service announcement" may cover it; just letting you know I made this change, in case you disagree. Elinruby (talk) 03:47, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

It's considerate of you to mention this, but you needn't worry about changing stuff I write, regardless whether I agree with you, as in the end it's about consensus, not about my pearls of wisdom. As it happens, this change of yours is very much an improvement, so even less to worry about. Carry on being bold! And thanks, Mathglot (talk) 05:35, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
I can do the French translation and I can wander around the mathematics but I am an engineer not a mathematician so I would need some help on it and we do it together. I know my way about logical caculus and stuff like that, but give me a sigma and I run away. Si Trew (talk) 20:46, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
No math in this one, but thanks for the offer. Mathglot (talk) 23:43, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

the article that needs hungarian, italian and Jstor[edit]

See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/CXT/Pages_to_review#2001-2100 and my comments there about Giorgio Raguseo, which are longer than the article itself. As best I can tell, he was the Medici equivalent of Dr Dee; a somewhat shady and maybe interesting alchemist/philosopher/charlatan-maybe. But I blew out my fuses just confirming that he actually existed. No worries if you don't want to do it; it's just that you asked me which article I was talking about and I have been going through that list tonight so I found it. There are a bunch on that list that are very short stublets about Renaissance figures. Considering merging them into a list until someone who wants to work on them comes along. Elinruby (talk) 10:35, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

User:Elinruby I can do the Hungarian for you, but I haven't jstor to look it up. Which article did you mean, you listed a hundred there (or 101 depending on your arithmetic.) Si Trew (talk) 20:48, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
To e clear, I lived in four or five different countries, I currently for the last four years lived in Budapest. I can do normal everyday Hungarian and idiomatic and I have translated many Hungarian articles here. I am probably the source to come to when you want to know what the Hungarian says, as WP is as it stands, I don't have a degree in it but since Hungarian authorities manage to spell my naeme wrong on my passport I have a healthy disregard for them. But you have to do the maths, I'll do the copy and can have it all copy-proofed by virtue of speaking it napi. Erted? Si Trew (talk) 20:53, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Can't be Alternative_theories_of_the_Hungarian_language_relations cos that is well sourced and all right. Must I guess? There are thousands on that list. If you want help with translation ping me, I imagine I got some automatic ping from WP, which is about as much use as a snake in an arse kicking competition. Or just take me off your list of wulling translators. We get no credit for our translations anyway. We don't get any thanks at WP:PNT, it just gets taken off the list when done. We come here voluntarily to translate, and then WP says "send us ten quid". Sorry, I already paid. Si Trew (talk) 20:59, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
I am considering quitting myself. But the article is Giorgio Raguseo ;) I did say that ;) It's on that list of things they want to delete (near the top) and I included that link because what I said there is longer than the whole article as it stands, lol. I don't actually care much whether the article gets expanded, as I am floating the idea that we combine all the one-liners about Renaissance academics in a list until someone wants to expand the individual entries...seems like a better idea than deleting them as BLPs, egad.... anyway he was my test case for do these people exist in the first place and apparently he does, but what I found was either in Hungarian or Italian or on JStor with huge access fees. It seems like he might be a fun guy to research as he may be a scientist or he may be a charlatan, but I found nothing in my languages (mostly French, some Spanish and a very itty bit of Portuguese reading ability, ditto German but that didn't come up either. Check him out, do what you like. If he moves to a list I'll do a redirect. Elinruby (talk) 21:16, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
@SimonTrew:, funny you should mention that article, I was just editing 1501-1600 where it is listed. See also Talk:Alternative theories of the Hungarian language relations#Title rename. Mathglot (talk) 21:21, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
I really fail to see your point. I came at the top of the conversation to which WP invited me, I do not know where from and said so. There is no point listing that I already put that there in this very converastion. If you don't think that I don't have a bookshelf of hungarian, english, and french dictionaris then your glottis is bigger than you elucation, if you want to mix greek and latin like in your nick (Oh I forgot, I can translate those too.) Any good translator will say I can do ths and I can't do that, exactly as I said at the top of the conversation, because I was asked by Wikipedia to do it, that is the only reason I asked here, otherwise I would ask you to not bother me. I said the qualifiers because I know a bit of maths and was being a little polite, I spent a couple of years in school adding up to the angle A, and can do a bit of housework bookeeping and know the difference on an imaginary IQ angle ni radians or the frac on a book when second horse comes in at I 100/30. I am not quite the thick shit that you may think I am, but I I put out an offer to [[User::Elinruby]] that if you have a text in Hungarian, I will understand the maths, I will do the tops and tails and together we will make sure it is OK, because a lot gets lost in translation. That is just a translator being humble. Strange, you must know everything. Si Trew (talk) 23:38, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
@Elinruby: I have access to JSTOR through my public library, so if you can give me a full citation I might be able to download and email you stuff. Mathglot (talk) 21:23, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
maybe. I'll keep it in mind, especially for that article if SimonTrew decides not to work on it. Working on the egregiousness of Dilma Rousseff articles right now, that's way overdue and worse than anything on that list. In my darker moments I think S Marshall just needs a change of scenery and let's not start on the dude who tried to explain to me that translation is hard. Elinruby (talk) 21:32, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Wait, someone's explaining that translation is hard over there? I'm really going to have to go out and look for that, maybe I can learn something. (As for S Marshall, don't be too hard on him. He puts stuff out there, is unfailingly polite, doesn't get in your face, won't act without consensus—in short, if all editors were like him, we could delete the guidelines about AGF, 3WW, and CIVIL. Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, he's a pleasure to deal with.) Mathglot (talk) 21:54, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

@Mathglot: the translation is hard when one don't know which of a hundred articles one is supposed to translate. Still haven't a clue. Do you want me to translate "Math" into "Idiot" and "glot" into "throat, talk, likes to speak?" I can translate it that way. A good translator is hard to find, and it does not become you to denigrate people who spend their time translating for free at Wikipedia. Anything is easy if you don't know how to do it "number incantation apeaker". No, speaking a language is not hard, translating it is hard. One more denigration of people who translate. By the way, you have no idea what "egregious" means. Si Trew (talk) 23:29, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

And you'd be very welcome "Over there" and I mean it sincerely. I should love to have a good argument with you and show you around. Don't put on people you've never met. I gave out a genuine offer to User:Elinruby that I can translate the text but not the mathematics. I can understand the mathematics, I can set it up in type, on a proper typography machine not this nonense that Donald E. Knuth came up with in 1974, but I would not pretend to know the mathematics in it until I saw it. You may be a mathglot and I may be a polyglot but that still don't balance. I was only asked here from WP and I couldn't understand why, and I guess because although I have nothing on my page it guesses I edited from Hungary. Erted? Nem besyelek WP-ban "kerem, itt, en, a nom és keren a hlye editorban itt, kerem, szivesen". Nem en a beszelni. The offer stands to User:Elnruby. I have nothing more to say. Look up in the first reply here, I said it already. Many textbooks in Hungarian mathematics are quite in an old stzle. I'm a typographer, not a mathematician. What do you do. Si Trew (talk) 23:49, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
@SimonTrew: Lol, I think you missed who said what; that wasn't about you!! Look just above, Elinruby said:

...and let's not start on the dude who tried to explain to me that translation is hard.

but you must have missed that, or you would've realized that my "Wait, wait..." comment was my responding to him, and dripping with snark.
And once again, ditto about 'egregious' which is not on this page anywhere, above my sig. Keep cool, all is well. Mathglot (talk) 23:54, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) @SimonTrew:As to your second comment, which I didn't see due to the edit conflict, I still think you're mixing up who said what. I haven't denigrated anybody. I'm not putting you on. I translate as well, and agree with your comments about translation. And my Hungarian is not very good, but enough to know that if by "Nem en a beszelni" you're trying to say, "It's not for me to say" that sounds very much like MT, and it would be different in Hungarian, or I miss my bet. Mathglot (talk) 00:00, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
And 'hlye' has a missing 'u' ;-) Mathglot (talk) 00:04, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
Response from my hu source, says: no exact equivalent, but in this context, would say, "Nem tartozik ram," (lit., 'not my business'). Mathglot (talk) 09:22, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
put the knives away guys. I love you both. @SimonTrew:, your help is welcome anywhere on that list you want to weigh in, at least as far as I am concerned. @Mathglot: you are right about S Marshall of course; I just don't understand why he gets so vehement because someone tried to write an article, but yes, he does listen, that's true, and I have come to think of it been less civil than he. Actually. So thanks. Meanwhile, both of you, since there is now a conversation and I just posted a long answer with several suggestions (like Google neural nets), let's see if we can go for consensus. Elinruby (talk) 01:42, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── No knives here, I've always been impressed with User:SimonTrew and am kind of mystified about what just happened, as I see no disagreement with anything he said, just felt kind of called on the carpet for things I never said at all; I find it funny more than anything else (hence the 'Lol'). But he's got a point about providing links, and when you say things like, "I just posted blah-blah." I will go look in your revision history and figure out what you are talking about, but a link is the courteous thing to do.  ;-) Mathglot (talk) 01:55, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Couldn't figure out which one it was. On top of everything else, there's a time zone difference between UTC posts here, and the TZ of Revision History when I look at it, which appears to be in my local TZ; no doubt some preference setting somewhere, but makes it more confusing to figure out. Mathglot (talk) 09:30, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── This whole thread is just a comedic series of miscues and miscommunication. No need to quit. Relax, enjoy, have fun; laugh; life is short. I'm gonna have a drink, suggest y'all do the same.  :-) Mathglot (talk) 09:34, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Wikisalon, and translation[edit]


Thank you for your invitation to the WikiSalon! I just now received it. Sometimes I'm not on Wikipedia for a few days. I look forward to more dialogue with you and others on the topic of increasing translation accuracy and efficiency. Would you be interested in a brief call anytime?

Best, Daniel.inform (talk) 20:45, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi @Daniel.inform:, It's usually held the last Wednesday of the month, but as that would fall on Memorial Day, I imagine they will move it but I haven't heard anything yet. Keep your eyes and ears peeled.
Also, last meeting I met someone who is also interested in translation (as well as other topics) and maybe we could all get together and talk about translation topics. It would be nice to get a few additional people involved, and make a little task group or something to discuss Translation issues at WikiSalon, and/or in other Wiki-venues.
Off-wiki, I'm a member of a Meetup that draws several dozen foreign language speakers who want to perfect their English, as well as English speakers looking to practice their languages downtown on Tuesdays; if you'd like to know about it, shoot me an email (click 'email this user' in left sidebar) and I'll fill you in. You don't have to speak a foreign language to attend, it's enough to be interested. Plus, since it's held at a bar, after a beer or two, you might find yourself speaking in some languages you didn't know you knew. ;-)
P.S., I've taken the liberty of changing the section title to something that is more reminiscent of the topic, hope you don't mind. Mathglot (talk) 01:26, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello, Mathglot. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Daniel.inform (talk) 11:50, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

catala for your pen perhaps?[edit]

  • Neus Català (current english not that bad)
  • La antrada de la flor (current english pretty bad)

Elinruby (talk) 10:02, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

also: Friedrich Ludwig Seidel (ca)

Mental disorder defdinition???[edit]

You, for no reason, reverted the DSM-5 definition I carefully updated on our mental disorder article and left a you don't own it type comment, which I didn't appreciate. Seems inflammatory to me. Care explaining what's going on with that comment and your revert? It sure isn't helpful. You do realize that the DSM-5 has superseded DSM-4 in 2013, right? Would you mind discussing on the talk page before leaving insulting messages and making reverts to much needed edits. Thanks.Charlotte135 (talk) 04:35, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Charlotte135, The revert of your last edit at Mental disorder was completely appropriate, and was not done for "no reason". I'm sorry you were upset by it, but it's understandable that you would be; no one likes to be reverted, especially when you've taken the time to carefully find references and compose your text.
And yes, I would be happy to explain what I meant by it, and in fact I have already done so on the Talk page of the article within minutes of the revert. And yes, I know all about DSM-5, and that's certainly an appropriate thing to discuss at the article talk page, but not here. What we can talk about here, is how the editing process works at WP, and how you fit into that.
  • WP:CONS - Please refamiliarize yourself with how the editing process actually works here at Wikipedia, which is by consensus. This is by nature, a collaborative process. You won't get very far as a lone cowboy. Insisting on getting your text into an article in the face of opposition isn't going to work. Talk with other editors. Find out how to work out any disagreements, to arrive at a solution amenable to all, or at least, most.
  • WP:AGF - A core principle when talking with other editors here, is to assume good faith. This means that other editors are probably acting for the good of the project, unless there's a very good reason to assume otherwise. If something happens you don't like, it's probably for good reason, and not because they don't like you, so there's no reason to take it personally. When you start off an entry on a user's Talk page, as you did above, with a comment starting, You, for no reason ... you really don't have to read any further than that, to see that you aren't assuming good faith. In fact, there's a very good reason that I reverted your edit, and it is explained on the talk page. Of course, it took me all of nine minutes to do that, but by that time you were already here, busily composing your message, so you probably didn't see it. Assume that I reverted you, for a good reason. Maybe I was wrong; we don't know. Let's find out, on the article talk page. In the meantime, please assume good faith on my part, as I assume it on yours.
  • WP:BRD - When you try to insert or delete material in an article, and it gets reverted, this is all part of the normal collaborative editing process. You boldly deleted some material at Mental disorder (and added a bit), and that's fine. Someone else came along and reverted your edit; that's also fine. Those are the first two parts of the bold, revert, discuss cycle. After you tried, and were reverted, it's now up to you to go to the Talk page and attempt to discuss your changes. When instead of discussing, you chose to delete the same material again, that's not fine. Doubly so because you were removing well-sourced material that touched on the history of the development of the concept of Mental disorders. it's normal that you got reverted. If you reinsert the same material, without attaining consensus on the talk page about it, it's quite possible someone will revert you again.
  • WP:OWN - The burden of proof is on the editor adding new material, or removing existing sourced material, to provide justification for it. When in your second attempt to delete the same material, contrary to WP:BRD, that is acting like you own the article, and can do whatever you want. When you add an Edit summary that includes, "Don't revert without discussion please" that is inappropriate; it's not for you to tell other editors not to take an action that is completely appropriate, as it was in this case, according to existing policies and guidelines. Including a "Don't revert" comment visible in the edit history may even spook a lot of inexperienced editors, who may be cowed by your assertiveness, but I am not and I wasn't. The tone and speed of your reply here, and the inappropriate accusations and apparent lack of assumption of good faith only strengthen this impression of your sense of ownership of this article. That's why I responded in my edit summary the way I did; your assertive actions and declarations seemed to require an equally assertive declaration to make it clear that your actions would not fly. I'm sorry if that edit summary came across as harsh to you, I can certainly see why it would; but I thought it was warranted, under the circumstances.
I do believe that you sincerely are trying to improve the article, and I appreciate your efforts. I do believe that DSM-5 definitions are certainly appropriate to the article, and should be included. I know that it isn't very pleasant to be reverted, or to read these words, but they are intended to reflect how your own words and actions might be seen by others, and to remind you that you have to work with others here, and one can't get their way by sheer force or insistence. It has to be by consensus. I'm sorry if my previous actions were upsetting to you, or if this response is, but I mean them with a sincere desire to help. As long as you work with other editors, I'm sure you will be able to add your DSM-5 definition to the article without any objection. I'm much less sure that you will be able to remove the history of the earlier, DSM-4 definition, but that is not for me to say. That's something for you to raise on the Talk page, and attempt to persuade your fellow editors. Best of luck with your editing at Mental disorder, and at Wikipedia more generally. Cordially, Mathglot (talk) 05:50, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
Save your patronising for someone else Mathglot, just because I picked you up on your editing. I've been an editor here for 2 years and a Top 200 medical editor. My edit was much needed. You deleted the new definition of a mental disorder based on the current DSM-5. You left our mental disorder article with an outdated definition of mental disorder based on the DSM-4. Are you going to put the definition that you deleted back into our article? Reverting a good edit is not helpful. Removing commentary on the outdated DSM-4 manual was not "absurd" either. Please be civil.Charlotte135 (talk) 10:49, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
Mental disorder is actually a really important article. The definition of a mental disorder is really important too. Given your concerns with me simply using the current DSM-5 definition of a mental disorder in our article, rather than the definition from the now outdated DSM-IV or any earlier version of the DSM could I please suggest we use dispute resolution to resolve your issues?Charlotte135 (talk) 12:37, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
The proper place to discuss content of the article, is at the article talk page, Talk:Mental disorder. If you feel your edit was much needed and requires no alteration, then you should have no trouble at all finding consensus about that on the talk page. No one questions the notability of the topic, or the importance of the article, least of all me. The first step in dispute resolution is to discuss any issues about how to improve the article on the Talk page, and a discussion is already going on there, which you have participated in. I'm not sure what you hope to achieve by further conversation here. Although you've responded there more than once, I wonder if you're really reading what others are saying, because any disagreement there is rather minor, and I've made already made a couple of suggestions on how you might achieve your goal in a way that should be amenable to everyone. The rest of your comments here about me personally are inaccurate, and irrelevant to improving of the article. Congratulations on your two years and top 200 ranking, although I'm sure you're aware that that gives you no additional weight or authority in a content dispute, if there is one, which I'm not sure there even is. I hope you continue improving the Mental disorder article, and many others. Cordially, Mathglot (talk) 05:42, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
I have obviously taken the conversation to the Talk:Mental disorder page Mathglot. Consensus is exactly what I aim to achieve in our article's definition section, before I make any new edit. I'm just waiting for Doc James' final say and anyone else who may like to add an opinion. There's no rush in our articles. Consensus is what I hope to achieve, so any new edit I make to the definition section sticks. I won't comment here again, as I was only responding to your comments and tips. Good luck in your future editing and thank you for the discussion.Charlotte135 (talk) 12:51, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

what's your objection to Iberophone?[edit]

I'm not necessarily taking issue, just enquiring. Looks like data to me. As an aside, had a good laugh at your comment about the government of something and Leon. Elinruby (talk) 04:47, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

@Elinruby: It's kind of a double-neologism-whammy; it could be attacked in Spanish as a neologism, and to translate a neologism from another language into a language (English) that definitely doesn't have it, is beyond the pale. We have Iberian, yes; also Hispanophone, Lusophone; but not Iberophone. No Basqueophone, or Aragonophones, or Estramenyophones, either, though it's perfectly obvious what they mean; it all comes down to WP:V and WP:RS, really.
Re laugh: I imagine you're talking about #1804–1807? Hey, we gotta have some fun, sometimes... Mathglot (talk) 05:14, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
ya those are the ones; I blanked on "Castile". Alright, so on Iberophone it's the word itself you disagree with? Not sure whether I agree or care, but that answers the question, thanks. Elinruby (talk) 05:21, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
@Elinruby: I see what you mean: I think you got me on this one: yes, it's the word itself, and I'm not supposed to be judging notability, neologisms, or anything else right now, this is *strictly* about X2 MT-translation. Of course, I suppose one could argue that "Iberophone" *has* no translation into English, therefore it's wrong, although that seems a bit of a stretch. Technically, you're right: if the translation's okay, then it should be struck, even if the word doesn't exist in English—go ahead and do so, or I will. Apparently, a neologism is not even a criterion for speedy deletion, which rather surprises me. So it would have to go to Afd I guess. But it's not an X2 candidate, you're quite right. Mathglot (talk) 05:30, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
I wasn't even implying that. I just had been puzzled about what you disliked about the table of demographics. As for the neologism, well, english does this all the time, but I guess you are saying that spanish disapproves? French frowns on imports from english also so I guess I see that issue. Whether it still applies when we translate to english, meh... I am not sure I care. I for sure have other fish to fry, at least right now. Elinruby (talk) 05:36, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Convent of Nossa Senhora da Conceição (Angra)[edit]

This conversation has been consolidated at User talk:Zeorymer for continuity.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hello Mathglot. Yes, I will be happy to review and edit the article later today. ruben jc ZEORYMER (talk) 07:41, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

MX Articles[edit]

The beginning of this discussion can be found here.

Hi, most of the articles I struck were already on my watchlist so have already checked them out, have some basic foreign languages but will not be striking anymore, thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 14:15, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Trans woman piping correction[edit]

Thanks for correcting and simplifying my piping change on the Trans woman article. I should have known the simpler way to do it, and it is good to be reminded. -- ArglebargleIV (talk) 05:56, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

@ArglebargleIV:  ;-) Mathglot (talk) 06:35, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Page mover granted[edit]

Wikipedia page mover.svg

Hello, Mathglot. Your account has been granted the "extendedmover" user right, either following a request for it or demonstrating familiarity with working with article names and moving pages. You are now able to rename pages without leaving behind a redirect, and move subpages when moving the parent page(s).

Please take a moment to review Wikipedia:Page mover for more information on this user right, especially the criteria for moving pages without leaving redirect. Please remember to follow post-move cleanup procedures and make link corrections where necessary, including broken double-redirects when suppressredirect is used. This can be done using Special:WhatLinksHere. It is also very important that no one else be allowed to access your account, so you should consider taking a few moments to secure your password. As with all user rights, be aware that if abused, or used in controversial ways without consensus, your page mover status can be revoked.

Useful links:

If you do not want the page mover right anymore, just let me know, and I'll remove it. Thank you, and happy editing! Mz7 (talk) 05:40, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Mz7: I wonder if you could review my first use of page mover status, to ensure that I have done everything correclty. This involved a swap of Remensa (formerly a redirect) and Remença (formerly an article page, now a redirect) using the temp location Draft:Move/Remensa-PM-C4 (now vacant again), and three moves with redirect suppression, following the instructions at WP:PM/C#4 for a round-robin move. The optional Atalk to Btalk redirect creation did not apply. Cleanup at Remensa afterward involved rejiggering the WP:BOLDTITLE and some changes to italicization. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 04:25, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
Looks good to me! I actually did not hold the page mover flag prior to becoming an administrator, and as an administrator, I do not need to do round robin swaps because I can directly delete most target pages under G6, so you technically have more experience now than I do at these swaps. Face-smile.svg Though complicated at first, it's fairly simple once you get your mind around it, I think. I wonder if we could create a flowchart that would make understanding the process a little bit easier. Mz7 (talk) 13:51, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

27 and 348[edit]

?is the point just that they go together or is ther something else I should be seeing here? ta. let me know at your convenience? Elinruby (talk) 10:48, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

They go together. Mathglot (talk) 18:12, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

My Talk page.[edit]

There is nothing saying I can't remove content from my talk page. I agreed with you. Which I stated on summary. I decided to remove it. I have that right. See WP:OWNTALK Reb1981 (talk) 22:40, 23 May 2017 (UTC)\

@Reb1981: Interesting; you are referring to this removal and this one. The latter links to WP:TPO which lists 19 bullet points covering specific circumstances under which a user may edit other users' comments on their talk page, and removing warnings is not one of them. However, it would appear that that guideline is in conflict with WP:OWNTALK, which says that warnings may be removed. In addition, WP:REMOVED supports your position as well, although it recommends archiving over removal. I'll mention this to the wikignomes who monitor the Talk page guidelines, and see if I can get them to make sure that all the guidelines are internally consistent. I learned something, as well. Cordially, Mathglot (talk) 23:14, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
The talk page guideline you mentioned is for the talk page of articles, not the user talk pages. That is why it may seem conflicting. I have been around for a while myself and I am always learning. Reb1981 (talk) 23:31, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
@Reb1981: Indeed, that page does start out that way at the top, but section 1.6 #Editing comments includes points about user talk page editing, and section 3 is entitled #User talk pages and is entirely about them. So, it's not quite that simple. There is still an inconsistency that they will have to address. In addition, that page should be clearer at the top that it applies to both user and article talk pages, or it should be split into two. Mathglot (talk) 00:00, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Tunis wikipedia project to document souks[edit]

See the PBS documentary "How a new generation is reviving the old heart of Tunis"[1] for a story about how the city of Tunis is documenting their city and preserving their hertiage and adding information to Wikipedia via the MedinaPedia project.[2]


  1. ^ Judy Woodruff (May 22, 2017). "PBS Newshour How a new generation is reviving the old heart of Tunis". PBS. Retrieved May 23, 2017. And then there’s a project called MedinaPedia in the belly of an old Christian church, where another group of volunteers is documenting every building and monument in the area, researching famous residents, and uploading that information to Wikipedia, a variety of projects, committed people, young and old. 
  2. ^ Emna Mizouni (December 8, 2015), "Documenting Tunis for future generations", WikiMedia, retrieved May 23, 2017 

BLP prod of Annett Renneberg[edit]

Hello, I have removed the BLP prod tag you placed on Annett Renneberg because it has at least one source in the external links. The bar for removal of a BLP prod tag is pretty low (for example the sources don't necessarily have to be reliable), and I wouldn't oppose a regular prod or AfD on this article. —KuyaBriBriTalk 13:59, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

I struck part of my comment above after another re-read of the BLP prod policy. The standards for initial placement of the tag and removal of the tag are different. The tag can be added only if there are no sources, reliable or otherwise, that verify something in the article; however, it can only be removed in the presence of a reliable source. —KuyaBriBriTalk 17:22, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments, KuyaBriBri; I wasn't aware of the slight distinction in criteria between addition and removal, so that's good to know. In the meantime, someone else has restored the tag, and I thought criteria for that were pretty strict (socks, etc.) but they gave a rationale and I won't fight it, either way. Thanks for taking the time to enlighten me about this, and happy editing. Mathglot (talk) 17:59, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Verify translations of articles from Hungarian[edit]


I checked the first two articles, they are fine. I have no more time for this. Misibacsi (talk) 17:09, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

@Misibacsi: Thank you! Mathglot (talk) 17:28, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

checking in[edit]

I had a call on Saturday that my mother was very ill and not expected to live till morning so I jumped on a plane to Victoria. She's actually rallied a bit, but is still definitely terminal, and this is only about six weeks after my father died, so other family members are not only shocked but already mourning him. Bottom line, this is where I have been/am now, but I do have internet access this trip and likely will be able to work on this tonight. I have not yet read all of your messages, but briefly, yes, there are some articles I worked on but did not strike. Some I was thinking about and it was still early in this process. I do trust your judgement on the whole and you seem to be striking or not and pinging me either way if I am in the history, which is good. Back later, need to deal with some domesticness. Elinruby (talk) 09:12, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Oh my gosh, that's so sad and difficult. Real life takes priority, take care of what you need to, and don't worry about this little project, it'll be fine. If it takes your mind off things to come back here and mess around a bit, then by all means do, but please don't feel any sense of obligation about it. I really appreciate your taking the time to let me know what's going on at such a difficult time. My thoughts are with you; virtual hugs, and take care. Mathglot (talk) 09:27, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Re: Can you help verify translations of articles from Arabic[edit]


Yes, I will help with the reviews. I will start with the samples you provided. Is there a timeline or so?

--Mervat Salman (talk) 09:56, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Translate Verification[edit]

Hi! As you've asked me if I can asses the translations of articles from Romanian to English, I'd like to know how to do this properly, moreover, I'd like to know if there are any guidelines so the assessments are as accurate as possible. Thanks :).Justfun23 (talk) 10:00, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Justfun23! Fair question, and I'm not aware of any guidelines for this. As this is for a very specific purpose, namely, assessing quality of translations created by users using the Content Translation tool, the task is narrower than the general question of what constitutes a good translation. For this narrow task, we only care that whatever the English article says, is a faithful translation of the Romanian, as far as the facts are concerned, and by "facts" we mean whatever was in the original article. We don't care about notability, verifiability, or truth, for this task. Also, I wouldn't sweat too much on being "as accurate as possible": we're not assessing if the article is accurate, but if the translation is. Here's what we're afraid of: that a monolingual English user used Google translate with no clue what the original said, and thinks that as long as they smooth out the English afterward, then it's a good translation. We both know that's not the case, as it can mangle the facts, and a monolingual won't see that, they'll only see the quality of the English, and decide whether it's "good" based on that. As a native speaker, if you put the two articles side-by-side, you'll probably get a feel for whether it's just machine translation that's been whitewashed with some good English on top, or whether it's actually a translation by someone that knows what they are doing.
Oh, also: the English article needn't be complete; if it is only 10% of the original article, and that 10% is a faithful translation of some part of the original, then that's still a PASS because the translation, as far as it goes, is accurate. If you have the time to add a comment like, "good, but lacking 90% of the original," that would be helpful, but it isn't strictly necessary. Does that clear it up for you? Mathglot (talk) 10:36, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Re: Can you help verify translations of articles from Farsi[edit]

Hi. I will try to fix and pass the pages you suggested. If there are more pages like them, let me know.

Gav1991 (talk) 20:30, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Filaret Barbu[edit]

First one of these translations from Romanian I've encountered that's got serious problems. It's a reasonably accurate translation, but of a poor article about someone who deserves a better one. See my remarks at Talk:Filaret Barbu.

I don't maintain a watchlist on en-wiki these days, so if you want to discuss further please ping me or use {{talkback}} on my user talk page. Thanks. - Jmabel | Talk 04:12, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Will do; thanks, Jmabel! I look forward to working with you. Mathglot (talk) 04:16, 31 May 2017 (UTC)


I just stumbled on this edit, as I'd half-remembered seeing someone post a ready-made query to find CXT edits that overwrote their article instead of creating a new one. (I'm not sure whether it's still out there and I didn't find it, or if it was your edit there; and writing my own turned out to be easy enough.) In any case, access to Quarry is as easy as going to, clicking the big blue "Login with Wikimedia" button, and clicking "Allow" when it redirects you to meta to authorize it. Schema's at mediawikiwiki:Manual:Database layout, but see also wikitech:Help:MySQL queries#Alternative Views for tables where the indices don't get clobbered by the need to redact deleted or oversighted revisions. —Cryptic 10:49, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Cryptic, wow! I didn't know this, thanks! The only problem now, is whether there's enough time left to take advantage of it; I wish I'd known this a couple of months ago. Plus I'm so busy with trying to find editors for Asian and other queries, as Elinruby suggested. I'll see if I can come up with something, if I can find a minute. Mathglot (talk) 18:26, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Just a little help with translation (awards section)[edit]

Currently, I am working on a draft about an american actress. As of now, she doesnt have an article on enwiki, but she has an article on spanish wiki ( I got stuck only on awards section. Here are the words that I need to be translated:

"Año", "Ceremonia", "Resultado", "Premio", "Trabajo".

Kindly note that these words are the headings of the award sections. Upon using google translate I am getting odd results. Any help would be appriciated a lot. Kindly ping me when replying. Thanks. —usernamekiran(talk) 12:09, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

@Usernamekiran: Looks to me like you've already translated them just fine. I checked Google, and it did a fine job on these five words, as well. Can you describe what odd results were you seeing, or what it was that caused you some doubt? Mathglot (talk) 13:44, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I got the reference from another pornstar's article. Draft talk:Anna Bell Peaks#Awards section. Unfortunately, as discussed on the talkpage, this is going to be my third draft not going in the mainspace/article space. —usernamekiran(talk) 13:53, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Ano was fine, year. Ceremonia showed as "ritual", but I made a guess that it would be "ceremony". Resulatado showed "consequence", but I again made a guess that it must be result. It was actually Premio, and Trabajo that I first translated, as the first three were quite obvious. Primio was translated as "premium", and Trabajo came up as "toil". Because of these, I translated other words, and that made me doubt the Google translate lol. —usernamekiran(talk) 14:01, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
@Usernamekiran: I took a look at the talk page you linked to. It looks like the problem with the article has nothing to do with translation. Do you understand what Hullaballoo Wolfowitz is trying to tell you about the article, and how to reduce the risk of your drafts not going into mainspace afterwards?
As for the translations: that's not at all what I see when I use Google translate for those words; it gets all of them right. However, in general, you'll do right by doubting Google translate; if you don't speak Spanish at all, I'd steer clear of trying to work on these. Mathglot (talk) 14:11, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
erm... I am not sure what you said lol. Here is what I know/think:
  1. There is no connection between the translation, and the quality of the draft/article.
  2. The article will not survive cuz it fails GNG, and WP:PORNBIO.
    On the other note, I think google translate works similar to all other google products: giving the user results based on their previous searches/activities. Currently web's greatest stalker is fb, then its google. Face-grin.svgusernamekiran(talk) 14:19, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

We're on Twitter![edit]

Hello Mathglot! Follow the Wikimedia LGBT user group on Twitter at @wikilgbt for news, photos, and other topics of interest to LGBT Wikipedans and allies. Use #wikiLGBT to share any Wiki Loves Pride stuff that you would like to share (whether this month or any day of the year) or to alert folks to things that the LGBT Wikipedan community should know. RachelWex (talk)
For more information about Wiki Loves Pride: Wikipedia:Wiki Loves Pride.

Translation Request Reply[edit]

(This is in response to my request here.)

Hey Mathglot, I have read your request for my evaluation of the three translations of English articles from the Chinese articles. I have evaluated the three articles and marked the first two as  Pass and the last one  Fail. The reason being there were a lot newly added information to the translated page and some parts from the original one that's missing(especially in the synopsis). There were many sections missing from the Chinese page but is filled in the English page, which I don't think is a problem. However I suggest you to check if all sources in the English page are reliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OscarSong (talkcontribs) 00:34 04 June 2017 (UTC)

Hey Matgglot. I would love to help out for more — Preceding unsigned comment added by OscarSong (talkcontribs) 04:05, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

request to check Chinese to English pages[edit]

(This is in response to my request here.)

I can try, but I don't have much time except for weekends, so it'll be a slow process.--little Alex (talk) 04:49, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Placement of "Expand language" templates[edit]

I've just found your comments User_talk:Ettrig#Please_stop_repositioning_language_templates_immediately here. I came across this edit on my watchlist, and looked for guidance at WP:ORDER but found nothing - have added a note at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Layout#Position_of_.7B.7BExpand_French.7D.7D_etc. PamD 08:06, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi, @PamD: In the note that you added at MOS:Layout pinging Ettrig, where you quoted what the documentation at Expand French says about positioning of the template, you realize you are quoting Ettrig's own words back to him, that he added to that template? That was an alteration he made, seemingly in preparation for the subsequent moves of hundreds of language templates to his position of preference.
I don't know that I necessarily have a position what the right position of that template is. I may even end up agreeing with Ettrig (or not) but forcing the issue through unilateral action, both in altering many articles to his preference, and the doc to match, seems disingenuous at the very least.
I held off reverting Etrig's doc change because he announced on his talk page that he would be away for a month, and I did not want the appearance of acting behind his back. But now that he is back, I will likely revert that edit, and wait to see if there is a change in the existing consensus that would support his change.
My own position at this point, is weak support for the template at the top, but in an altered format that would reduce its vertical height to the equivalent of a {{Refimprove}} or similar. Much of the boilerplate in the Expand Language template is completely unnecessary and should be removed. Secondarily, I don't support Ettrig's claim that it "marks an opportunity, not a fault," because in fact translation introduces the possibility of factual error, and to me, an Expand Language template is a big fat red warning flag, saying, "Warning: material ahead, including sourced material with references (!) may be factually incorrect because it is translated." That is not the primary intent of the Expand Language template, but it is definitely a secondary effect of it, and most editors, I suspect, (including myself) will not place both a {{Expand French}} and {{Rough translation}} on the same article (although logically, maybe we should); at least, I don't recall seeing both of those templates on any one article. So, in reality, the "Expand" series of templates aren't just indicators of opportunity, in fact, they are warnings about verifiability. If that view gains consensus, then they should remain at the top (in reduced form) to match other, similar warnings. I may change my opinion the template placement, as more facts emerge, but that's my current feeling having been heavily involved in a number of translation-related articles and issues, and having viewed or edited many translated articles, and translated some myself. See for example, WP:PNT and WP:CXT/PTR, where I contribute a good deal, as well as WP:CXT/PTR/Clobbers and WP:CXT/PTR/BL where I am lead contributor.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Mathglot (talk) 08:43, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Translation Verification[edit]

hi, i finished the assignment. if there are other articles, i'll be happy to help. --HamedH94 (talk) 16:03, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Translation verification[edit]

Sure, I can help! Kiteinthewind Leave a message! 18:35, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

i need a break, kinda badly Comment[edit]

If you get a chance can you check on the people I invited last night? It looks like we're going to be doing this for a while yet, just out of draft space?. Elinruby (talk)

Yes, I'll be happy to check on them. I'm just a little scatter-brained right now, so remind me in a day or so. Yep, looks like we'll just be doing it out of draft space. I'm kind of excited about this whole editor recruitment thing. It also occurs to me, that some of the monolinguals who enjoy hanging out at WP:PNT or even CXT/PTR would be perfect volunteers to help on this, because you don't need to know Chinese to speak to a Chinese-English translator. So if we could 10 more people helping us invite translators, that would really leverage our efforts.
Anyway, go take a break. You really deserve it. We'll be fine, come back when you're refreshed. @Elinruby: Mathglot (talk) 09:38, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the invite[edit]

You'd be very welcome at WP:PNT; hope you stop by. Cordially, Mathglot (talk) 1:36 am, 11 April 2017, Tuesday (1 month, 26 days ago) (UTC−5)

Thanks for seeing my work and for the invite, life outside Wikipedia has gotten quite busy lately. Once things slow down I may take you up on your offer. Cheers.Dig deeper talk 13:49, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
(Note to self: In reference to a note about a good translation at User talk:Dig deeper#Tours Amphitheatre.) Mathglot (talk) 17:20, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

peace out for a few days probably[edit]

I need to starting getting myself back up to Canada and have major triage to do first so I am going to stop obsessing over that list, although I crossed off a couple of perfectly respectable African BLPs just yesterday that needed only the mildest of copyedits.... Can you update the lists etc if you get a chance -- also I have someone named Rui_Gabriel_Correia (pt-5, en-5) who seems interested and isn't in the lists yet. On Dilma Rousseff perhaps the answer I just gave to Saturnalia0 gives you an end of the string where you can start unravelling? Alternately, the Michel Temer proceedings have breaking news and updating that should be a place to start. Let me see if I can formulate a TL;DR summary -- Eduardo Cunha procedurally had a choice of whether to accept an impeachment petition. Rousseff said he did so because she refused to block an investigation into his corruption charges. She said the impeachment was intended to let the kickbacks continue. The economy tanked and there were protests. She was impeached. Cunha is now in jail, many investigations still ongoing. Rousseff still not accused of corruption, just a somewhat arcane violation of the budget law. Elinruby (talk) 22:08, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

@Elinruby: By pure coincidence, I made three edits to Dilma, and added a new section on Talk:Dilma in the last few minutes, didn't know if you were writing now cuz of that or not. I've interacted with Rui before, can't remember where, but maybe we should recruit him (or others) to Dilma, now that we have some experience with the recruitment procedure from PTR/BL. I'll look at your response to Saturnalia0 and see what I can do. Relax, disconnect, don't think about WP, come back refreshed. Mathglot (talk) 22:32, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
@Elinruby: I'm off as of now till Saturday late. I'll check in on my phone to answer any pings and see how things are going, but I can't do any recruiting or results collation while I'm out. Hope you have a good break, too. Mathglot (talk) 02:02, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Translation verification of articles from German[edit]

Hi Mathglot, I examined the two articles that you mentioned in your communication to me. However I am not familiar with the templates that you suggested, and at the moment am too busy to start learning how to use them. My recommendations are: Fail for Markus Dürager, Pass for Matthias Berking. If you are happy with this method of communication, I can carry out further verifications for you. Hohenloh + 16:30, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Dutch evaluation[edit]

  • On the same topic: thanks for asking me. I'm not a native speaker (I'm Dutch, not German). While I can read German reasonably well thanks to a good secondary school, that was 40 years ago. So reviewing German articles for quality of translation is not something I feel I can do well enough. Paul Koning (talk) 19:03, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Kindness Barnstar Hires.png The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
For your effort to work with User:Henia Perlman. Thank you for helping an editor who obviously wanted to collaborate, but might have a bit of difficulty to do so at first. RickinBaltimore (talk) 20:40, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

prayers for prisoners on ctx list[edit]

I am starting to follow up on some things now: You asked me why I struck this one. In general I tend to want to keep articles about cultural practices, although I grant you that the translation is pretty bad and I don't speak Polish. The one Polish speaker I got an answer from (kind of an authority on the military history I am told) passed all five of his articles and said the process was a waste of time. I told him I mostly agreed but it was not my idea. Possibly I'll be able to interest him in this one, which is er, definitely not a pass. But. I am vaguely interested in the topic, is why. On the other hand I myself cannot fix the article. This update is fyi and does not require a replay unless you really really wanna. I'll try to come back and add the number of the article on the list in case you want to look. Elinruby (talk) 10:30, 21 June 2017 (UTC) It's 1039 Elinruby (talk) 10:31, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi, User:Elinruby, I've always been in favor of anyone being able to strike an item, with the promise of "adopting" it and promising to take care of it after the temp X2 period is over. I think I've done that with a couple of Catalan ones maybe. So, that goes equally for this one: just add a comment at #1039, "I'm adopting this one" and strike it. If you don't speak Polish, you'll have to find allies to fix it up, and since we don't know how long that might take, I would say the best compromise solution is to move it to your user draft space and invite the Polish translators to fix it up there. Or, move it there now, and then you don't have to give an explanation at the item.
Btw: if the Polish translator passed all five of his articles, that's definitely not a waste of time to the project, although he might not have liked the task. That's five more articles that don't have to be struck for X2. I see what we are doing as protecting the integrity of the encyclopedia: just look at all the articles in the scientific and mainstream press trying to tear it down for inaccuracy and other reasons. So not allowing junk translations into the encyclopedia is a very valuable task, and I appreciate the time that you and everyone has put in. That doesn't always mean it's a fun task, but it's definitely a valuable one.
So, back to Prayers for Prisoners Day: if you want it, please either strike #1039 and leave a note about adoption, or just move it to your user drafts and then you don't have to give an explanation as it won't be there to be nuked. Mathglot (talk) 17:09, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Whatever...I'll do something. Maybe. I am not passionate about this article; was just answering the question. I personally don't think this project has been a good use of time tho, except perhaps that it may have sparked some good movement in the right direction. Not to argue with you or anything but I don't see it as a big problem (per se) if the tool gets confused about his vs hers or about word order -- although that one is annoying, yes. So we're catching some fairly bad stuff, some of which can be fixed if someone cares enough, and it's taken months... to identify a batch of articles that could as easily been identified by following up on particular editors. But it's all good, we're almost done with this now and I think the point has been made that it's not the tool that makes the bad translation. And perhaps we are closer to working out a better process, so yay. More people are involved, so yay.Elinruby (talk) 17:28, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
I agree with you about the inefficiency, and in that sense it hasn't been a good use of our time, although a useful one to the encyclopedia. More than the his/hers stuff, I'm concerned about the "he's a scientist"—No, "he's a journalist", stuff. (From a Pootis example.) I had always intended to open a post-mortem thread when it's over, and still do, so we can talk about what we have learned. But things like this are always clearer with 20-20 hindsight. I look forward to leveraging the infrastructure tools we've created and the budding translator community that we've started to accumulate for bigger and better things, like the #Clearing the backlog discussion you've already commented on. Definitely "yay!" Mathglot (talk) 17:40, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Yup, which is why I said per se because those problems *can* lead to all sorts of errors about who influenced who or what exactly happened, esp since, with a lot of other wikis seem to have a sort of flowery "academic" tone with needlessly complex sentences with lots of subordinate clauses and conditional tenses. Incidentally, I just saw one I know you'll like -- Joan Looked. I give you three guesses and the first two don't count. And yes, it is a name. Elinruby (talk) 17:47, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
@Elinruby: HA-ha-ha-ha! I've got it! At least, I'm 99% sure I have, but I haven't miroed the article yet, so I can't be 100% certain till I do. Mathglot (talk) 17:59, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
yep ;) but you forgot the accent. New rule - you can be cranky about word order if I get to be cranky about accents :) I am thinking of rescuing that one just in honor of the giggle hehe. Elinruby (talk) 18:07, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Henia is respectfully requesting not to block her[edit]

Thank you all for your thoughts and support.

Carole, I am respectfully asking you to cancel your request to block me. You could see that my request for your help with template conflicted with your request to block me. I thank you for your infinite patience.

Mathglot, I welcome your help, so I can continue to be involved in the Holocaust articles. I have improved, slowly, but surely. I sincerely mean that.

I have been learning to collaborate in a constructive way, and reading wiki rules. And I am trying to do things slowly: Today, I saw that Ealdgyth couldn’t find some sources, and deleted sentences. I made some research and I think that I found sources supporting the deleted sentences. Tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, I will present my citations in the Talk of the article, and ask Eadgyth if they are appropriate. Not today: because I want to think about them, and make sure that the citations are historically relevant, and “actually supports ALL of the information in the sentence”, like Ealdgyth asked about “euphemism” (I think that I did find a full sentence for that!)

I did truly show “intention to try to work with others”, and get along (I have moved a lot in my life!): I notice when people corrected my formatting or statements, and I thank them publicly. If I am reverted, I don’t put back my contribution, but discuss it in the Talk of the Article, as Ealdgyth told me to do. After my change of “German-occupied Poland” was reverted, by Ealdgyth , I admitted I was wrong, because I remembered that Poland was divided between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.

Thank you all for your kind consideration.

Be well, and be grateful for everyday.Henia Perlman (talk) 23:52, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Henia's proposal after reading your suggestion, Rivertorch's suggestion, and last message of Carole[edit]

Mathglot, here the new suggestion, after I read last message of Carole, about article being too long (I agree)

For the time being, I will only make modifications, together with CaroleI (not adding) and see:

Carole and Henia will work through the wording (template, style) Henia would like to modify

-- getting it wikipedia ready, and posting it as a modification in the right format.

In the Talk page of the article, I will explain that I just posted a modification, explain the reason, and welcome comments/discussion/objections.

It will be like Ealdgyth posting modification (since Carole will be formating); if people who don't agree to the modification, we can discuss the modification in Talk of the article.

I think that Carole and Henia could be be both good collaborators for a modification, ready to be made in the article.

Let's try the one step process of modification of what is already in the article and see!

Thanks again so much for helping me out! Henia Perlman (talk) 04:55, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Henia, Thanks for your reply. I see that this discussion topic is going on in three or four places, and it's better to just keep it one place, and although normally it should be your talk page, de facto it seems to be going on now at Carole's talk page, so unless she has an objection, let's keep the discussion there for now.
Also, please learn the talk page procedures. I left you some links on Carole's page. Please learn how to respond to discussions without opening a new section every time. Again, thanks for your comment; let's continue the discussion at Carole's page for now, until she suggests it be moved somewhere. Mathglot (talk) 05:18, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Documents and works[edit]

I was merely trying to narrow the rather large miscellaneous year works, with year documents. I your edit because you had pointed out that I had put the document in the wrong year. However, it was still in "1962 works", I wanted to put it in "1962 documents".--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 01:16, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Mathglot, this all seems like a tempest in a teapot. One character was wrong in what should be an obvious routine edit while sorting categories. You reverted it, replacing it with the correct year, but the broader cat that I was trying to narrow down. Eventually we discussed the issue and put it in the right category. Do you really think anyone reading the article cares about the minutia of this edit conflict?:) I think we should devote our time and energy to more pressing matters.--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 02:00, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
For the record: this refers to this discussion about Bellerophon5685's edit at 70,000 Character Petition. Mathglot (talk) 00:00, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Articles about Levant Women[edit]

Hello Mathglot;

I thought of sharing my initiative to add articles about Levant Women with you. We need editors to add some articles from the lists provided in the meta page in French. How can you help with this?

Thank for your cooperation. --Mervat Salman (talk) 11:53, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi Mervat, I'll be happy to look into this, thanks for adding me to your list. I may be able to help you in other ways, too, besides just working on specific articles myself. For another project, we have a translation infrastructure set up to manage article translations. I might be help to leverage your efforts, and find multiple people to help you with specific languages, if you tell me which languages you need help with.
I could maybe also help you in another way, by creating an invitation template for you. Remember the invitation I sent to you on your page? That invitation was based on the template {{X2 review help}} which I created for our project. If you can write up the text of an invitation for your Levant Women project, I can create a template for you to use. This will make it easier and faster for you to send out invitations. For example, one afternoon a couple of weeks ago, I sent out 52 invitations to people who speak German to help with some German translations. That would take a long time if you had to do it by hand.
Anyway, thanks again, and I'll be happy to create some articles for your project. Mathglot (talk) 08:05, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
I really appreciate your help, you can also spread the word among other wikipedians. Looking forward for more collaboration. Regards. --Mervat Salman (talk) 19:14, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Possible death of Aleshia Brevard[edit]

Hi Mathglot, a number of IP editors have been adding details of Aleshia Brevard's death to her article, however I've been unable to find any news, death notices or obituaries concerning her death. I'm unsure as to what to do as it feels a bit silly to fight to remove references of her death when it's most likely that these IP editors are connected with her in some way and she truly has passed away, but it's an unverified claim, so it should be removed, right? I thought you may have some insight. Thank you, Cjhard (talk) 02:58, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Cjhard: That would be sad news, indeed. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, and will look into it. Mathglot (talk) 04:07, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Cjhard: The guideline on living persons (which also applies to recently deceased persons btw) is very clear on this: such material should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion. If you see something like this, either at this article or any BLP article on Wikipedia, revert first, notify someone second.
Even if you happen to be wrong on the facts, it is never wrong to revert until reliable sources have been provided. I believe there may even be an exception to the 3 revert rule in this case, so the first thing to do is revert, then maybe notify the user on their talk page, then seek instance. You can always ask a question on your own talk page and add {{HelpMe}} to your post, and an admin will come along to answer and assist if need be. Mathglot (talk) 04:59, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Cjhard I thought so; here it is: WP:3RRBLP. Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 11:05, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
I note that IMDb has now retracted this information from their site. TransGriot still has it listed, but Monica Roberts did not respond to an enquiry. Andrea James still has it listed, and claims Gwendolyn Anne Smith as her source, and Ms Smith did not respond to an inquiry. Mathglot (talk) 00:38, 20 July 2017 (UTC)


Redirects have different deletion criteria than articles. I created this redirect because I came across this term elsewhere and did a little web research to understand what it meant. At one point if I recall correctly, the LGBT article mentioned FABGLITTER as a variant of LGBT+. The variant has a short history, and might not be particularly notable, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't help people figure out what things mean, or once meant, or once tried to mean. I'll update the redirect so it points to the "Other variant" section of LGBT. It is a harmless redirect that may be helpful to someone (it would have been helpful to me before I created it). -- SamuelWantman 00:41, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi Sam, thanks for the comment. Yeah, I just learned that you can't Prod a redirect, and also that redirects are very cheap in terms of server space and other things, and that it's mostly not worth the bother to delete them. On the flip side, I looked it up, too, and it seemed to be just some guy with a blog and his friends having a lark making up new acronyms for LGBT, and I assumed they wanted to "see if they could get it into Wikipedia" (I once snuck a fake word into Urban dictionary, and it was mostly thumbs-upped by my friends and lasted about 9 months) and I Prodded for that reason, basically, to discourage that sort of behavior, since as "the encyclopedia anyone can edit", anyone sometimes *does* edit. But given the other considerations, this hardly seems worth any additional attention on our part. If you would have found it helpful at some point, then fine, as long as there's something about it in the article; one thing I really hate, is getting redirected into the middle of some article, and having no clue why I'm there. Pointing it to "other variant" should solve that. Btw, did you notice the FABGLITTERHAT that I also tried to Prod? I see nothing at all on the internet for that one, and it probably is just someone having a giggle after having seen FABGLITTER, and wanting to join the party (with a hat). But per the above, not worth spending the time to delete that one, either. Thanks for taking the time to explain, and happy editing! Mathglot (talk) 00:51, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

What this points out is something I hadn't really thought much about before, and that is that a redirect can be used to point out a topic's lack of notability. So in this case, looking up FABGLITTER (and finding that it is a variant that isn't even mentioned in the article) does that. -- SamuelWantman 05:38, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Barthélemy Hervart) has been reviewed![edit]

Thanks for creating Barthélemy Hervart, Mathglot!

Wikipedia editor Boleyn just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Thanks for creating this. Could you please see if you can address the WP:INLINECITE tag?

To reply, leave a comment on Boleyn's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Boleyn (talk) 07:23, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

The Black Woman is God Edit-a-Thon in San Francisco, July 22[edit]

You're invited to The Black Woman is God Edit-a-Thon at SOMArts in San Francisco on Saturday July 22, 1-4 pm. It'll be at 934 Brannan Street (between 8th & 9th). Everyone is welcome to join this editing event, held in conjunction with The Black Woman is God exhibition to raise the online visibility of Black women artists and challenge the gaps in art history that erase or minimize Black women’s contributions as artists, activists and social change-makers. (Message requested by Dreamyshade and delivered on 14:23, 9 July 2017 (UTC). You can subscribe/unsubscribe to San Francisco event talk page notices here.)

Aleshia Brevard revert[edit]

I noticed you reverted my changes to Aleshia Brevard. I used the same citation as in July 1, 2017 and that has yet to be challenged. I've noticed a few blog posts referencing the same material, but nothing concrete. User:EternalNomad is the one who added that citation so perhaps talk to them? Snickers2686 (talk) 20:25, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi, User:Snickers2686, and thanks for calling my attention to Deaths in 2017. No need to talk to them, at least not first: WP:BLP is very clear about this, and unsourced or improperly sourced material positive, negative, or neutral "should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." (emphasis in the original). The correct procedure here, is to immediately remove the material, which I've now done, and if anyone wants to discuss, they may do so on the talk page. However as a courtesy, one should ping @EternalNomad: so they are aware of the situation, and also to let them know not to restore any information about Aleshia without an impeccable source, per the guideline. This means a published newspaper obituary, a listing in the SSDI death index, or similar.
I have reverted the listing for Aleshia at Deaths in 2017. The guideline at WP:BLP is much stricter than normal citation requirements, and a blog run by an individual is not a reliable source even under the more relaxed rules for general articles, let alone for a BLP. If the blog cited an obit in a published paper, then of course, no problem; but it doesn't. The information may well be correct, but Wikipedia requires reliable sources, and this just doesn't meet that standard. Even for example if you were family and present at bedside at t.o.d., we still couldn't use it; it *must* be sourced; that is non-negotiable. There is no record in the SSDI index, no obit in local newspapers, nothing but an imdb listing (anybody can edit imdb; I have) and a blog, and now a tweet, as people see the other notices, and start multiplying them around. None of them are relialbe—so far.
Note that I am not saying the information isn't true, just that it isn't publishable at Wikipedia under the requirements of WP:BLP until there is a reliable source about it. The minute we get a good source about this, the material may be readded. Thanks again, Mathglot (talk) 23:46, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Acoustic Room Orchestration[edit]

Hi Mathglot. Can you explain why you marked the article as advertisement? i can't understand why you see it like that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phishmaker (talkcontribs) 12:20, 19 July 2017 (UTC) (Phishmaker (talk) 13:34, 19 July 2017 (UTC))

de to en translations[edit]

@Xaosflux: I'm an interested party to the conversation you intiated at User:Degeno's talk page regarding de to en translations, as I also do occasional translations from de-wiki (and from others; most recently ca-wiki).

So far, I use the standard attribution recommended at Wikipedia:Translation#How to translate adding the edit summary listed at (a) (per edit, if more than one) and also add the {{translated page}} template suggested at (b) on the Talk page (once; when done). Is there any reason to stop doing that and instead import the history as you mention at Degeno's TP? Mathglot (talk) 04:07, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Mathglot, both can be used, and either is sufficient - I think I was confusing a few people when I messaged Degeno, thinking that he had more dewiki edits than enwiki ones. On dewiki history imports and merges (even dewiki-->dewiki for forks) are more encouraged in their community. If you plan on doing some dewiki ones in advance, importing them do User:Mathglot/dewikititle can be done for you to translate at your leisure. enwiki does not require the import, but it doesn't hurt. WP:RFPI requests are normally turned over in a day. — xaosflux Talk 12:41, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
Got it, thanks. (thanked). Mathglot (talk) 01:06, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Your removal of an example of Reappropriation[edit]

Hi there, I am fairly new to Wikipedia so I don't pretend to have any proficiency in article creation/ modification and can't say that I am completely familiarised with all protocols, rules, etiquette etc. For those reasons, I invite you to correct me on anything I get wrong in the following discussion and to not feel in any way criticised by my suggestions and questions :)

I was wondering why you decided to remove the following contribution to the "Reappropriation" article. I understand that it is a sensitive subject however I think it's fair to say that the example given here is a prevalent one and the sources (such as the rap group N.W.A.) are clear and explicit examples of it's use. I agree that at least one impeccably reliable source should be given and think that such a source/s could be found (by myself even) without too much difficulty. If you think that the example could be re-enstated given that water-tight sources were given, may I make that edit? Thanks for reading and considering this point of view. Here is the contribution to which I refer:

Reappropriation 347 BYTES REMOVED, 1 MONTH AGO →‎Race and ethnicity: Remove unsourced examples. Especially for a sensitive topic like this one, every example *must* have an impeccably reliable source, and preferably more than one. To a lesser extent, and more controversially among the groups referred to, many racial, ethnic, and class terms have been reappropriated:


  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference Slurs was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ For example, the band N.W.A., or the titles of several of Richard Pryor's recordings. Or listen to a wide range of 90's-2000's hip hop music.
Hi, TheWolfMoose, and welcome to Wikipedia! It does indeed take a while to catch up with all the many rules around here, and it's perfectly okay for you to question why someone did something affecting your edit. I'll add some additional useful info on your talk page a little later, but basically the answer your specific question has to do with Wikipedia's core policies on Neutral point of view and verifiability.
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and a cardinal rule is that all statements made must be verifiable. The normal way to demonstrate verifiability is through citations to reliable sources. Not every single thing has to be footnoted, but anything non-obvious or likely to be challenged must have a citation; sensitive or contentious information needs footnoting with impeccable sourcing, preferably more than one. Wikipedia is not censored, so the removal of the information you added had nothing to do with the words being offensive, and if properly cited, you can add the information back.
Okay, so much for rules; what does this mean in practice? It means you should go find some reliable sources that document what you wanted to add to the article, then add your information back in again, with the reliable sources noted in footnotes. The Help:Footnotes page will explain how to do this, using the <ref> tag. If you want to experiment creating text with footnotes, you can try using your user sandbox (click 'Sandbox') at the top of any page when you are logged in). If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask!
By the way: your reference #1 above doesn't show up above and throws a warning, because it's an invocation of a "named reference" whose definition is in the article, not here on this talk page. You don't have to worry about this when editing the article and adding your sources, I just wanted to explain why you're not seeing the footnote you expected to see above. See Help:Footnotes#Footnotes: using a source more than once for details. Mathglot (talk) 18:12, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
Hi, @TheWolfMoose: Thought you'd like to know that User:Florian Blaschke has restored your example, with a claim that it is referenced. It's true that there is a named citation ("Slurs") there, however I don't believe that that reference actually supports this example. I am looking into this now, and if there's any change required I'll take it up on the Talk page of the article. Cordially, Mathglot (talk) 23:56, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Mathglot, thanks for your reply. I apologise for such a late reply myself; I have just got back from holiday. It's interesting to here about the example restoration however I thought that I would point out that it wasn't actually me who added the example in the first place. I am unsure as to who it was, perhaps it was the recent restorer FlorianBlaschke. I just happened to be browsing the article and was suprised not to see the example in question and so decided to look through the history of the article to see if it had ever been added and then, as it had in fact been added, I decided to ask why it had been removed, hence my correspondance with you. I hope this clears things up. Thanks again for how helpful you have been. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheWolfMoose (talkcontribs) 00:34, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi again, TheWolfMoose I didn't assume you had added it, I took your question at face value and answered it as well as I could. Just wanted to keep you informed in case you were still interested.
By the way: please read up on talk page procedures at WP:TALK, and especially indentation and signing your talk page comments using four tildes (~~~~). Mathglot (talk) 01:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Oh I see, thank you. And will do :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheWolfMoose (talkcontribs) 07:03, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

cisgender restored content[edit]

Content restored and collapsed. Suggestion noted for future reference. Edaham (talk) 11:59, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

@Edaham: Yep, that's the way to go. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 12:01, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
if you happen to look at the page history - apologies for the multiple edits. Apple iphone helped me mess up the syntax and wiki markup a few times before I sorted t out. Edaham (talk) 12:08, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
@Edaham: I did, and I was (slightly). ;-) Happens to me all the time while mobile, so np, all good. Thanks for the word. Mathglot (talk) 20:12, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Menorca or Minorca?[edit]

You have recently participated in a discussion of the title of the Minorca/Menorca article. A move request discussion concerning the issue is currently open at Talk:Minorca if you care to participate. —  AjaxSmack  21:23, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Civility Barnstar Hires.png The Civility Barnstar
thanks for the feedback on the GoogleTrans gadget Endo999 (talk) 23:50, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

albert tonelli needs a enwiki translation from the itwiki[edit]

Hi there,

I noticed you are a translator from itwiki to enwiki. I don't know whether your 'mathglot' name means you are mathematically trained.

I have updated the talk pages of it:Alberto Tonelli and Tonelli–Shanks algorithm recently.

I've looked at Dickson's History of Numbers vol 1 p215, and decided that Tonelli's modular square root algorithm of 1891 also does modular square roots of powers of primes (p^3) and not just primes as Shanks 1973 algorithm does.

This means that Tonnelli is more prominent than first appears. Even his itwiki article doesn't mention that he did the modular square root algorithm, which is used widely today because modular arithmetic is used in the secure web.

There are two Tonnelli's, Alberto and Claudio, Alberto is the one who did the modular square root algorithm.

In any case, an article translation from itwiki on Alberto Tonnelli to the enwiki would be a good idea, and would improve the reputation of an old Italian mathematician who deserves more exposure now than he currently does.

Endo999 (talk) 23:58, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi @Endo999:, once upon a time (many moons ago) I might have claimed some facility with advanced mathematical topics, but this is one of those fields that if you don't keep up, you start getting rusty. Nevertheless, I'll have a look, to see if I feel competent to contribute. If not, I'll gracefully bow out, or just help, if I can, on the less math-oriented portions. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Mathglot (talk) 06:43, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Dasein ohne Leben[edit]

«do not link common words like 'fate', 'professor'» As there is a systematic difference in the meaning e.g. 'professor' between de and us-en, I think, this should be expressed by linking. Also 'fate' should be explained by linking, 'presentation' I linked, as this modification is contrasting to the before used 'representation', same case 'suggestive'. As the article obviously is also read by non-native speakers, linking should be handled rather generously. And what about doing some sourcing and checking the facts? AVS (talk) 21:06, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Ya beat me to it! Reply can be found here. Mathglot (talk) 21:56, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Sergeants' Revolt has been nominated for Did You Know[edit]

Updated DYK query.svg Hello, Mathglot. Sergeants' Revolt, an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page as part of Did you knowDYK comment symbol. You can see the hook and the discussion here. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 12:01, 28 September 2017 (UTC)


  • 04:25, 17. Dez. 2014 (Unterschied | Versionen) . . (+700)‎ . . Benutzer:Mathglot ‎ (Andere projekten verbinden.) (aktuell) [2 Versionen zurücksetzen] : P, n
  • Anscheinend, dass : Concours de Genève, nur auf französich statt de, denn es in Genf (Genève) statt findet. Mathglot (Diskussion) 01:10, 12. Jun. 2017 (CEST) das, französisch, denn es findet in Genf (Genève) statt
  • 21:40, 3. Jun. 2015 (Unterschied | Versionen) . . (-41)‎ . . K Boris Wladimirowitsch Sachoder ‎ (Nur die englische Link existiert.) der englische Link

A little help 😁 bkb (talk) 08:13, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

@Bussakendle: Thanks, I usually don't bother with proofing der/die/das in edit summaries because I don't remember the noun genders and it's too much bother to look it up; also didn't bother looking up the trennbar status of stattfinden. I'm more careful in article text. französich is just a typo, there's no language I can think of offhand that ends in -ich. Also, all nouns are capitalized, and edit summaries are not editable, so even if you know there's a problem, once it's out there, it's out there. It's hardly worth adding a dummy edit just to advertise that you know something was a typo, so I just leave it alone. Thanks for the tips, Face-smile.svg Mathglot (talk) 17:22, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
It's the same for me in French, as the provenience is different (celtic vs germanic). Deutsches Sprach der Teufel hol. Das(s) die 'der' 'die' 'das' der Teufel hol. bkb (talk) 07:44, 13 October 2017 (UTC)


As the disc page is for article improvement:
The reference is given by the header – which is your edit summary, so what: the clever one gives way. AVS (talk) 05:58, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

I'm entirely flummoxed by this bafflegab; care to elaborate? Mathglot (talk) 19:36, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Sergeants' Revolt[edit]

Updated DYK query.svg On 14 October 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Sergeants' Revolt, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that student activists joined forces with the military to overthrow the Cuban government during the 1933 Sergeants' Revolt? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Sergeants' Revolt. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Sergeants' Revolt), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 01:17, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Directorio Estudiantil Universitario[edit]

Updated DYK query.svg On 14 October 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Directorio Estudiantil Universitario, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that student activists joined forces with the military to overthrow the Cuban government during the 1933 Sergeants' Revolt? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Directorio Estudiantil Universitario), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 01:17, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Sexual objectification[edit]

Hi - I'm going to ping you in a discussion at the page for sexual objectification. I saw that you had reverted the student's edits because they were a newer user and it was a relatively big edit, however this came across as a bit WP:BITE-y to the student and their educator. (I know you meant well - it just struck them the wrong way.) I think that it was likely done because this article's topic is, to put it mildly, a fairly sensitive topic area and smaller edits are more likely to stand up against criticism and make it easier to make any corrections or changes to the new additions, however the student isn't as familiar with this and the change felt fairly abrupt and sudden. They'd left some notes in the article's talk page about their plans and had been working on this for a while in their sandbox, so they likely felt that there had already been enough setup. At Wiki Education we do encourage smaller edits, but they may have thought that their change wasn't that large. The educator is aware that the student's contribution isn't perfect and needed some editing, and that the summary explanation was lacking, but they just didn't feel that this was a valid reason to revert the edits.

Can you go weigh in on the talk page? Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:42, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

@Shalor (Wiki Ed): Hi, and thanks for letting me know. I will reply there eventually, but I have a few other things on my plate just now, so it may not be right away. In the revert, I treaded more gently than I normally would have precisely because they are new here: I welcomed them to try again, and offered specific suggestions on how to proceed. Even an experienced editor would not likely get such a large edit through without pushback on an article in a delicate area like this. Nobody likes having their stuff reverted, so I understand their feeling miffed, however they might consider how such an edit effectively reverts the efforts of other editors (nothing personal here—it did not affect any contribution of mine). In addition, it wouldn't be uncommon for a new editor to have most, even all, of their edits reverted when just starting out, especially in a controversial area. This is a very tough area for someone to start to learn Wikipedia, and I wouldn't recommend it to a new editor. (I was recently involved along with some other experienced editors in trying to help a PhD professor new to Wikipedia contribute to articles in her subject area of expertise which happened to be a controversial one; she got reverted a lot, and mostly ignored recommendations by numerous experienced editors to change subject area while learning, but she just couldn't do it though we begged her to, and she was eventually blocked indefinitely, much to the chagrin of several experienced mentors trying very hard to smooth the path for her.) If the course material requires a student to contribute in this subject area, then of course they should, but they should step very lightly, even more so than an experienced user would. Having a thick skin, especially with respect to reverts while they learn the ropes, is a necessary attribute, or they won't last. Most student editors doing it as part of a course requirement don't remain anyway, so that would hardly be unexpected, but it would still be unfortunate because Wikipedia needs good editors. I will respond at Talk:Sexual objectification when I get a chance. I may leave a brief teaser there as an ack in the meantime. Mathglot (talk) 22:52, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Thanks! We do try to get them to make smaller edits, but sometimes we will get people who make the larger edits for whatever reason (not paying attention, wrapped up in the edit, cut/pasting content, etc). Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:46, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Клуб Центральная станция[edit]

Клуб Центральная станция не соответствует русским Wikipedia:Notability. А у нас даже значимые статьи удаляют Терпр (talk) 13:15, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Терпр, Большое спасибо за ваш ответ! Mathglot (talk) 20:53, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Reference system[edit]

Hi Mathglot. I'm assuming this wasn't preparatory to switching the whole article over to Harvard refs. Or was it? RivertorchFIREWATER 15:12, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi Rivertorch, it depends what you mean by switching over. I was planning on adding {{harvnb}} inside the existing named (or unnamed) refs, so that the footnotes would link to their sources, and named references would continue to work as before. The only change visible at the level of the rendered page would be that, e.g., "Carter" would turn blue and link to his book in the source section, so no change in style as far as what the reader sees. Do you see a problem with this? Mathglot (talk) 20:49, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
If I understand you correctly, I guess not. I've never taken the time and trouble to learn Harvard refs, so I tend to avoid editing or even watching articles that use that format. So it's not the rendered page that concerns me; it's feeling confident that I know what I'm doing when editing the page in the first place. RivertorchFIREWATER 15:39, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

November 2017[edit]

Stop icon You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you make personal attacks on other people, as you did at User talk: Comment on content, not on fellow editors.

I refer to your unwarranted personal attack with this edit. did absolutely nothing wrong and is almost as far from edit warring as it is possible to get.'s original edit was clearly a good faith (and in the circumstances reasonable) revert as the article is tagged as being written in British English. It is therefore not an unreasonable asumption that someone has changed the language variant since the tag was added as our American users regularly do (although I accept that this has not, in fact, happened in this case).

However, what I find particularly dispicable about your rant was the accompanying hypocrisy. You, my friend, are guilty of everything of which you accuse You are perilously close to edit warring having made three reverts to the article in five days (four is edit warring and liable to a block (the block is guaranteed if the four reverts take place within 24 hours)). For your information, the reverts were;

1 A bad faith revert given the ENGVAR tag.

2 A bad faith revert claiming that was not entitled to do exactly what he was entitled to do (and the edit comments suggest a report was filed which seems to be the case as Cluebot did not revert him again).

3 A bad faith revert following someone else performing a minor copy edit. You don't have ownersip of the article format or layout. If you had a problem, you should have taken it to talk.

As far as consensus goes, if anything is added to an article or its talk page, it has de facto consensus if no one challenges it (especially after four years plus) though the case for a tag of this type is not a particularly strong one.

You falsley accused of ignoring your points over the English variant of the article. In reality, he or she never pushed the point beyond the original revert but confined any further discussion to the tag. Sparkingplugs (talk) 17:41, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Belly Laugh, Dassanech, Ethiopia (22294760894).jpg
Ha, ha, ha; very amusing, thanks for the laugh! I'm shaking in my boots. Trying to avoid responsibility for your anti-consensus behavior by casting aspersions and inventing false accusations, that's a good one; I'll have to remember that.
Everything is right there in the history of the article, and anyone interested can just look it up. A good, recounting of this affair and the part you played in it can be found at User talk: France Flight 447 (permalink).
As far as blocking, I already told you here that "if you want to go for a block, the AN/I is that-a-way ➥ ➨ , but you might want to read WP:BOOMERANG first." But I guess you didn't like that comment, as I see that it's not there anymore.
Oh, I see; you referred to in the third person, so I guess that's not you? Oh well, you seem to know all about Wikipedia policies, blocks, and level 4 warning templates, bravo, that's truly impressive for a brand new user with only four edits, two of them here on my talk page. So please allow me to be the first to Welcome you to Wikipedia! Cordially, Mathglot (talk) 21:42, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
This is a new account but only because I create new accounts for warnings and feedback such as this. I have had problems in the past with a particular user (now mercifully indef blocked) attempting to pursue vendettas so this is how I do it these days. Since this is a new account and I haven't crossed swords with you on my main account, you can't possibly have told me anything.
You are correct that the full history is in the article's edit history, and I fail to see how that history tells a different story to that which I have given above. (See's edits) has made but two edits to the article (effectively one edit after the Cluebot revert is discounted) and you have made three reversions this month. If I have misinterpreted this apparently clear edit history, then please enlighten me and tell me where? Sparkingplugs (talk) 18:05, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
It had just occurred to me, given your implied accusation above, whether you were assuming that who made the first Brit Eng revision and were the same person. An IP address link chase reveals that they are highly unlikely to be. is an EE static fixed line broadband address that resolves to Bexhill on Sea, UK. is a Vodafone dynamic fixed landline broadband address that resolves only to the UK (the city field is blank), but is currently unallocated (which fits with the subsequent posts to's talk page coming from different but related IP addresses). Sparkingplugs (talk) 18:45, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

might want to stroll by NPOV board[edit]

There is a dispute about Catalan supremacism which may interest you. I commented but am too over-committed to seriously attempt to help. Also, I asked a question about whether School of Paris, the one we worked on in the context of Annees Folles, should be renamed to Jewish School of Paris, since I am getting the impression it is what they were called at the time. (The painters, not the medieval manuscript illustrators). I don't necessarily advocate either way and would of course want to nail this down in the sources before making changes, but if this is what they were called at the's sort of profiling, and yet, it's pertinent if they were all in Paris as refugees. Your thoughts on the subject are invited if you would like to opined. Elinruby (talk) 12:18, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

@Elinruby: Thanks, but per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Catalan supremacism it looks like it had already been deleted before you got to to make your comment. Keep sending me Catalan stuff, though. Mathglot (talk) 11:00, 12 November 2017 (UTC)