User talk:Metaknowledge

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Greetings Metaknowledge. Interesting page you have. SmartTofu (talk) 02:05, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I second that. --43?9enter ☭msg☭contribs 02:09, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
Just complimenting you. --43?9enter ☭msg☭contribs 04:32, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Changed my name to SmartRice - Bchu — Preceding unsigned comment added by SmartRice (talkcontribs) 04:28, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Will you kill SmartTofu or leave it hanging? Metaknowledge (talk) 12:59, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
Don't know what you mean by leaving it hanging, but I think I'm going to kill it because of copyright infringement. Funny how I'm typing this response in China. SmartRice 08:22, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
Copyright infringement???? How? And either way, I'd bet you a lot of Wikipedians are editing from China right now anyway... you're not alone. Metaknowledge (talk) 14:48, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Mouse deer[edit]

I would like an identification of the animal in my photo. How do I get the photo to you? It doesn't match the animal in any mouse deer photos I have seen, but it was definitely found in the wild in Rumbai, an oil company town 3 km north of Pekan Baru in 1958, where the photo was taken by my father. Please respond on my talkpage. --Irrgang 17:40, 12 June 2011 (UTC) <

i put the picture on my talkpage Irrgang (talk) 18:05, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the info on the deer, and I would indeed appreciate knowing if you ever see a reference similar to it. Interesting that it is so different ... And also, you are right, the extinctions in Sumatra are terrible. When I was there (1957-1964) we had tigers, elephants, clouded leopards, river otters, siamangs, bears, and Sumatran hairy rhinos, all within a few miles of our house. Also, weird stuff ... see page 410 of this book referring to my father and a friend of his [1]. And the three of us also discovered a particular rhino in Buatan, near Pekan Baru, which the friend later captured -- see pp 144-147 of [2]. Harry Gilmore, my father and I used to feed Dimples the rhino bottles of beer; she would come up to the fence you see in the pictures and beg for a bottle of Heineken, which she would grab with her jaws, tip her head back, and chug it down. I was in Pekan Baru last week, and it is so sad to see the environmental devastation today. Irrgang (talk) 20:20, 15 June 2012 (UTC)


Could you please please remember to add reliable sources in citations when you add info to articles? --Saddhiyama (talk) 21:31, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, will try.Metaknowledge (talk) 21:35, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Much appreciated. --Saddhiyama (talk) 21:36, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]


Ich bin also homi-G!

Xorianth (talk) 20:43, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

...for your comment on my essay. Really appreciate it. Always makes me happy when someone lets me know they've found it useful; it was fun to write. Cheers, Antandrus (talk) 03:42, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

No, definitely thank you. I must also mention that all your other subpages are excellent as well. Eventually, you may become a common name around en.wiktionary (at least one other person has already taken one of your quotes, the great one about a vandal's insults, to put in their 'Favorite quotes' list). --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 14:35, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Ministry of Finance and Economic Development (Mauritius) listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]


An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Ministry of Finance and Economic Development (Mauritius). Since you had some involvement with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development (Mauritius) redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Kingroyos (talk) 08:51, 27 December 2012 (UTC)


Its me! venomxx i was banned of editing on Wiktionary. please talk to semperblotto about him banning me. he did not give me a warning to stop what i didn't know was bad.Venomxx (talk) 21:27, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

What? Last I heard, he unblocked you. Go and check. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 05:11, 3 January 2013 (UTC)yeah he did, i asked vanischenu, he convinced him.

Re: EdwardsBot at English Wiktionary[edit]

Hey. It looks like this was already fixed. :-) Let me know if you encounter any other issues. For reference, global message delivery is controlled from this page: m:Global message delivery/Spam. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:40, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Transliteration of Ge'ez script[edit]

No, that was good. Currently, wikipedia does not have any standards for Ge'ez script. Do you have a sources for transliteration (journals, PDFs, and reference books). I am trying to write a guide for IPA for Amharic, transliteration for all languages written in Ge'ez script and restart the now defunct Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Ethiopia-related_articles — አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk) 03:13, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Greetings, Abel! (Did I get that right?) Not sure about Amharic; currently I'm only working with Tigrinya. I use wikt:WT:TI TR as a standard, same as the table at Tigrinya language. Could you recommend a standard for us to use for Amharic? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:09, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
That was perfect! And so is the table; there is no variation with Amharic, except that a few more of the letters in the last five columns would be darkened out. Amharic does not commonly use as many labialized velar consonants. Also ቐ and its vowel variants are not used at all. I believe that is because the Arabic influence in Amharic is not as strong. The table here is a good guide of the differences. However, if you are going from Amharic to Roman script then there is no problem. Going the other way using that table, may create use of letters not used in Amharic.— አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk) 04:38, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Watching, so go ahead and just respond. — አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk)
So could I just create a master table for all the languages, you think, and not run into any problems? Also, what's going on with the macra over vowels in Amharic transliteration? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:44, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
You have discovered the biggest problem, I am having explaining this to people. The idea is that any word transliterated into roman script can be transliterated back with no loss. So ሀ -> hä and ሃ -> ha, even though both letters are pronounced identically as [ha]. Similarly, አ -> ʾä and ኣ -> ʾa, even though both letters are pronounced as [a]. To add further confusion, you have ሐ -> ḥä and ሓ -> ḥa are also pronounced as [ha]; and ዐ -> ʿä and ዓ -> ʿa are also pronounced as [a] (notice the slight difference indicated by the change in direction of the apostrophe or ʾ vs ʿ <-- these are links check them out).
There are even more confusing things about the script and the pronunciation involving other consonants that is better left unsaid for now.
Note however, that the rest of the letters in the first column (i.e. except for ሀ, ሐ, አ, and ዐ) are pronounce with a [ə] while the sixth column commonly transliterated stupidly as ə is pronounced [ɨ]. I wish I could change this, because with the advent of IPA which people are becoming very familiar with this creates a confusion. But that would amount to original research. — አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk) 05:33, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Ah, but on Wiktionary there are no rules against original research! Please edit wikt:WT:TI TR as you see fit, and if you could create a table for Amharic with your preferred transliterations, I will add that. I still don't understand the macra, and if there is more confusion, please explain. I am glad to learn from you. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 05:44, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
  1. When you say macra, do you mean the difference between ä vs a? Or the difference between ʾ vs ʿ ?
  2. I forgot to say it would be a bad idea to create a separate guide for ALL the languages written in Ge'ez script. One slightly larger guide will do. You have a good start.
What you should do is:
  • Add the row of letters that start with that is used in Blin. You can find them here. They are transliterated as ŋʷ and I would say they should go right under and above .
  • Also add a column for yä only for ፙ, ፘ, ፚ; again to accommodate Blin.
  • Fill in almost the entire tenth row as is done here.
  • Then you can rename the whole thing as Transliteration for all languages written in Ge'ez.
— አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk) 07:10, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
OK, done. Please see wikt:WT:ETHI and make sure that everything is correct and complete. When I say "macra", I mean the difference between a and ā. Is this a vowel length difference (in IPA, [a] vs. [aː])? Should it be included in the transliteration? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:34, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
I am not too familiar with the use of ā, but I do not see any situation where it should be needed. Like I said before, transliteration should serve no other purpose than to allow transformation of words from Ge'ez script to Latin script and back. Vowel length has no baring on how a word is written in Ge'ez therefore should have no change on its transliteration. Pronunciation would take a much more complex system, doubly complex because it would have to be specific to each language. I believe in the past writers tried to include some pronunciation information by using things like macra and diacritics. But I believe that is counter-productive to the goal here.
Actually, towards that point: I don't think I like giving editors the option to omit (ə). I think they should be forced to use a vowel or consonantvowel after every consonant. Think of the two English words ADD and AD. If we wrote them in Ge'ez just as they are pronounced (ignoring vowel length which is the norm), they would ኣድ (actually, to the best of my knowledge no Ethiopian semitic language has the /æ/ only [a], but this is the closest). Now, imagine instead a reader saw the transliteration ʾadd. The "transliterator" intended this to be ኣድድ according to this guide. However, a reader familiar with western norms of orthography may confuse "dd" as a combination and not as two independent letters. I think the preferred transliteration should be ʾadədə always making it clear that each consonant-vowel pair and consonant-consonant-vowel triplet represents a distinct glyph in Ge'ez.
I have corrected a mistake I found on wikt:WT:ETHI. The mistake was mine and Ge'ez script article's bad wording and tables. Otherwise, that is a perfect table. I did notice that it seems that different fonts render differently. Or it might be a by-product of the Template:Ethi used in the transliteration table. I am not sure if there is a difference between ፙ and as I do not speak the language it is used in. But this glyph is probably the most rare of the entire table and could be sorted out later. — አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk) 01:38, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Is there a way to determine vowel length in Amharic? Just out of curiosity. Are there any other features of Amharic or Tigrinya that can be found in the IPA pronunciation that would not be predictable from the transliteration?
Re omission of (ə): I did not make this clear, but I meant that so that it is not transliterated when it is not pronounced. I'll try to clarify that.
Re mistake on wikt:WT:ETHI: Thank you. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 02:12, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
  1. As far as I know there is no way to determine vowel length from the Ge'ez script itself. At the same time, I must admit, I do not completely understand the concept of vowel length. The idea is still kinda foreign to me even now that I am a essentially-native speaker of English. I believe this is because there is only a single vowel length for every vowel, or at least that is true in Amharic. For example, my name is አቤል is pronounced with (what I believe is a long) [a]. It is the same sound found in አዲስ አበባ (ʾAdisə Abäba), or አበበ (ʾAbäbä BTW a common Amharic name traditionally used as an example almost like John Smith). Although, I can now pronounce vowels of different, I cannot identify one their lengths. I think because I have only learn to imitate them. If I am correct, there is no need determine length, because there is only one length per vowel (i.e. per column of the Ge'ez abugida).
  2. Another thing that is not indicated by the glyphs but is in IPA is stress. This also relates to your second comment about omitting (ə). You should relize the letters in the sixth column are always pronounced but are often not stressed. For example, the name አስቴር አወቀ (transliterated ʾAsəterə ʾAwäḳä which is close to her name's spelling Aster Aweke). The and are not stressed but still pronounced. We could transliterate this as ʾAster ʾAwäḳä with no confusion but that is not the case where letters are repeated as in the case above. I cannot think of a specific example of that at this time. But I will think on it. BTW the names ʾAwäḳä and ʾAbäbä are always pronounced with a stress on every sound and if not stressed that way lose meaning. Actually, there are words written identically in Ge'ez script that have different meanings which is only distinguished from how the letters are pronounce (i.e. stressed). Again, examples escape me at the time. It is actually the most difficult part of reading Amharic, a skill I had not mastered when I left Ethiopia and still lack at first attempt at reading a word. — አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk) 03:53, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, very interesting. It tempts me to try to learn basic Amharic, but the internet resources seem somewhat weak... I still think that ʾAster ʾAwäḳä is the best and closest to real pronunciation while allowing for re-transcription correctly into Ge'ez script. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 05:06, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
A few more things, I realized:
  • It is probably best to never capitalize any part of a transliteration. Even in proper names. Two reasons: one, Ge'ez script has no concept of capitalization and it would be an introduction of a foreign concept not present in the script. Two, Ge'ez script essentially treats vowels as variations the consonants ʾ and ʿ. There are no vowels, just several vowel-variations of consonants. So, when you capitalized the name ʾIsayyas ʾAfäwärḳi, you were really capitalizing the wrong letters. In both cases the ʾ should have been capitalized. Since, there is no way of doing that, it is best to just not.
  • Thinking on it further perhaps the very strict transliteration is not necessary. I think for now if you clarify that the omission is only allowable when the letter is unstressed (not "when it is not pronounced" as you had said because it is always pronounced) then it should be OK for now. If I think of a word where this is would still be very confusing, we may have to revisit this. The example with ADD was invented. I apologize if some of my statements are contradictory. But I thinking out loud will best demonstrate my line of reasoning. Stop me and ask for clarification if any of it is really not clear.
  • There is also a caveat involving the near-vowel consonants y and h. Sometimes, these sounds are pronounced as part of a word but are omitted in its writing in Ge'ez script. For example, I know in Amharic that the name ኢሳይያስ ኣፈወርቂ (Isaias Afewerki) is written as ኢሳያስ. So ኢሳይያስ, if strictly transliterated would be ʾi sa yə ya sə. But the yə is short as is always the case and in this case it is also unstressed (so is sə). I know in Amharic, in these kind of situations that the is omitted. I believe this would not be surprising to a linguist, as ə is a root sound. I am not sure if this applies to Tigrigna however. I have changed it in the article to see if I get reverted.
  • Most importantly, I hate the term Ethiopic. It is imprecise. Also, Eritreans who also use this script might see it as excluding them. I think the term Ge'ez script is better and NPOV. I don't know how deep the use of this term goes on wiktionary but I think it is best to nip it in the bud. — አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk) 05:32, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
It is common to capitalize transliterations in a way that will make English speakers feel more comfortable, so I disagree with you here. At both Wikipedia and Wiktionary there are many languages written in writing systems that do not use capital letters (Hebrew, Arabic, Mandarin, Korean, Japanese, Burmese, Thai just to name a few) but transliterations are always capitalized when the English version (like "Afewerki") is. The problem with ʾ and capitalization is solved the same way in Arabic transliteration, by capitalizing the next possible letter (I or A). Remember that it is still possible to convert back and forth accurately.
OK, I will change the page to say "noticeably unstressed" instead.
Re "Ethiopic": It could be changed on en.wiktionary but it could only be done if people would be convinced that one term is more common in the literature than the other when referring to the writing system. This is impossible, because it is not true. Search for "Ethiopic script" and it will say "About 1900 results". Search for "Ge'ez script" and it will say "About 500 results". On Wiktionary, NPOV is considered much less important than using the most common unique name for every language and script. Sorry :( --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 05:47, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Cool, makes sense to me. — አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk) 06:02, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Article Feedback deployment[edit]

Hey Metaknowledge; I'm dropping you this note because you've used the article feedback tool in the last month or so. On Thursday and Friday the tool will be down for a major deployment; it should be up by Saturday, failing anything going wrong, and by Monday if something does :). Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 22:40, 13 March 2013 (UTC)


No, a disfix isn't just removing an affix, but more generally part of a stem. Lots of languages have zero affixes, but AFAIK they are never analyzed as disfixes. Now, if the plural of ufagio were agio, with the loss of both the *n and the *f, then that would be a disfix, but otherwise people just set up paradigms with zeros in them.

Now, it's possible yours would be a productive approach. I'm thinking also of Hadza, where you remove the feminine suffix to derive the masculine. We might even want to use the word this way in our own writing. But unless the word is actually used in this way in the lit, we'd be misleading our readers to give such examples. — kwami (talk) 21:25, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:03, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


To answer your question, no, null prefixes are distinct from disfixes. A disfix is when an integral part of the root is removed in order to inflect, and is incredibly rare. It would be like if the plural of "child" were "chil" and "adult" were "adul" - English would then have a plural disfix. But a form marked by the lack of overt prefix would simply be a null prefix. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 21:32, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

And thank you as well! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:03, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Author contested proposed deletion of Waj (language)[edit]

The main contributor of the article on Waj (language) tried to contest the proposed deletion by placing a speedy hangon template under it. I removed the prod template and the hangon as a curtesy, but thought that I should let you know in case you wanted to take it to AfD. TonyBallioni (talk) 07:11, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you; I've never done an AfD, but I thought that the article would be in the shoot-on-sight category. (I mean, it blatantly fails WP:N.) Could you please point me toward how to go about doing an AfD correctly? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:50, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
I normally use Wikipedia:Twinkle to nominate an article for AfD. There is a manual way to do it as described at WP:AFD but I find Twinkle easier. If you decide to use twinkle, after it is enabled, you just go to the TW drop down menu next to the search bar, and select XFD, and fill in your rationale. It is pretty simple. TonyBallioni (talk) 20:12, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the tip.  Done --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:35, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

hi again[edit]

its the new well venomxx. its been a year or two. i forgot most of what i learned and when i saw my old user page, [ venomxx ], i was embarrassed at how immature it was. well, if you could send me links on pages or picture that need to be edited, it would be appreciated. i have created the page sedge grass and is just explaining the link to carex. Arbadarxx (talk) 17:07, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

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December 2016[edit]

Information icon Hello, I'm Doniago. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Inception, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. DonIago (talk) 09:20, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

@Doniago: there really aren't reliable sources for modern slang, unless you're willing to accept Urban Dictionary. However, you can see evidence of use in durably archived media at wikt:Citations:-ception, so if it makes you feel better, I can readd the sentence without the definition, merely stating that the suffix exists and linking to its Wiktionary entry. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:13, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
I think we really need evidence that Inception is to blame for this, and I don't believe Urban Dictionary would constitute a reliable source. For us to insert this claim without a source would be original research and inappropriate. Perhaps one of the references provided at wiktionary can be applied here? Cheers. DonIago (talk) 19:20, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
@Doniago: Wiktionary works differently. Anyway, I found a source that'll do. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:36, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

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