User talk:Moni3/Dedham

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Sources[edit]

I'm not having any luck finding any. Where are you finding them. By the way, [1], o dear. Ceoil (talk) 23:49, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Right now, the newspapers I found on Lexis Nexis. Next I'm going to do a search of Google News, since Lexis Nexis is not picking up The Wall Street Journal and the New York Times, both of which have done stories on MOBA. Michael Frank sent me the introduction to one of the books. I bought both, but it will be a few days until I receive them. The intro says the museum didn't get a lot of attention until an article was published in The National Enquirer. Now I want to find that article...and it may be the first FA ever to have a citation from The National Enquirer. --Moni3 (talk) 23:54, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
It takes me about a week to get books from Amazon. I'm finding bits and pieces on google news, but the info tends to be repeaditive. The National Enquirer? O Ealdgyth is going to love you. Ceoil (talk) 00:05, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Would you mind emailing a copy of the introduction? Ceoil (talk) 00:07, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Not at all. Send me an email and I'll forward what Frank sent me. --Moni3 (talk) 00:08, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
I have access to EBSCO, I'll search within there. We're doing awesome so far. Ceranthor 00:09, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

hey, just thought I would let you know that according to my sources, "Masterworks," the other painting that was stolen in "Self-Portrait as a Drainpipe" not a bird.--Found5dollar (talk) 00:14, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, no doubt some of this will be cleaned up, hence the draft here. I've read 5 sources that say the collection is near the men's restroom, and apparently Ceranthor read one that says it's IN the restroom...I wanna see that source. --Moni3 (talk) 00:17, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
hahaha... definatly not IN the bahtroom, but all that seperates it is a flimsly yellow partition hehehe. P.S. i upleaded the picture of Louise Rilley Sacco and Eileen to the article.--Found5dollar (talk) 00:20, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
never mind.. im deleting it... turns out the copyright istn what i thout it was.--Found5dollar (talk) 00:27, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
The National Treasury of Dubious Home Decoration seems to be someone's future aspiration, not a real place.[1] Strike? LeadSongDog (talk) 16:03, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

should we include anyreferences to other museums such as the Veleteria?--Found5dollar (talk) 17:23, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Images[edit]

Museum
  1. Warning: These premises are protected by a fake security camera or version 2
  2. Kool aid and cheese curls at the Somerville gallery opening
Art

Images held in the current collection can be found here. In addition to the esteemed Lucy and Eileen, I suggest the following for consideration:

  1. Sunday on the Pot with George (or version 2 to show presentation)
  2. More (note the author willingly provided more 'worse' pieces for an exhibition)
  3. The Athlete (note the longstanding controversy detailed on the page)
  4. Reef Garden
  5. In the Cat's Mouth
  6. Mary Todd Lincoln

These are not listed on their website as being in the current collection, but are possible candidates for inclusion:

  1. Alien Adam and Eve
  2. Pablo Presley
  3. Blue Meanie
  4. unknown title - green meanie
  5. unknown title - dog a la orange

Of course, we'll have to go with what we can get permissions for, but we should figure out which we'd prefer. Maralia (talk) 00:12, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

EBSCO search reveals 326 results... holy cow! I was expecting 10, if even that. This may take more time than I thought, but that's okay. Ceranthor 00:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Too Bad to be Ignored[edit]

Anybody know how to get a cool floating TM mark after the Too Bad to be Ignored bit from the logo mentioned in the lead. It seems toungh in cheek to me, and a nice irony. Ceoil (talk) 01:38, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Will it survive FAC? --Moni3 (talk) 01:42, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Ask and ye shall receive. ;) Kafka Liz (talk) 01:46, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
I would say so as it is part of the logo. If not; what about it. Oh and Liz, nice. Ceoil (talk) 01:56, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Doling out jobs?[edit]

Shall we start doing this?

  • Louise Sacco released MOBA's images to Wikipedia, but they should be uploaded with a GFDL, and emailed to Wikipedia.org. Anyone interested in doing that? I would like 5: Lucy, Eileen, and George on the Pot, for starters. I would like to see if others are highlighted by reliable sources so we can decide what to include of those later this week.
  • As for the Flickr images, I would love to have the fake camera image, and one of the outer facade to be at the top of the article, above the logo.
  • Ceoil, since you're formatting citations, shall that be one of your tasks to ensure citations are the same? Apparently the way I format them and the way you do it is different, but I don't care how they appear.
  • I hope to expand the "Artistic commentary" when the two books I purchased arrive. I would like to depend on more than the website for this information.
  • Let's not count chickens before they hatch. I can hear my mother saying that...my God...I am old. This may not qualify for FA per the unending conversations about article size and whatnot. Any main page blurb we write should be kept off of FAC. Once the time comes to nominate this for FAC, we'll have to divulge that this is a prospect for April 1: not for haste of reviewing, but for transparency.
  • Remember, it still has to be an FA. It can still say something about art, and it already is, according to the New York Times. We should highlight what bad art says about why people enjoy it so much. --Moni3 (talk) 02:03, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Is there a picture of the facade on fickr? If not, I could easily make a field trip to obtain one. Kafka Liz (talk) 02:15, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Are you in Boston? You are awesome! I would, actually, like an image of the outer facade of the theater, and perhaps one inside to showcase how the artworks are displayed. If I may request...sorry if this is old hat to you, but please try not to use a flash, if at all possible. When do you think you might be able to get these? --Moni3 (talk) 02:18, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Great; formating citations, thanks ;-) How many sources are out there though have you judged? How much can we grow the page. Ceoil (talk) 02:20, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
And really, given the job he done with the Ima Hogg blag last yr, TFMWNCB should really summarise this one, too. Ceoil (talk) 02:24, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
By FA standards, this will be a small article, and I think 50 citations will probably be necessary. Some of those will be from the MOBA books, as well, so they won't all be magazines and newspapers like the ones we have now. This article won't take a lot of summary, but the Fat Man has not been around lately. Too bad. We may have to try to summarize this ourselves. --Moni3 (talk) 02:27, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
(ec) re:Boston - Yes, or close enough, anyway. I remember when the museum was in its Somerville location. I can probably get up there this weekend, unless we have another big snowstorm like we did today. I'm not an expert photographer by any means, but I figured I'd offer, since I am so close and it would make for a fun weekend. I'll see what I can do. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 02:30, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Wow. I have been completly outpaced by you guys. If you need help let me know, but this freshman editor will just leave it now to the profesionals hehehe.--Found5dollar (talk) 02:50, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Please don't forget that most of us have not been to this museum. Your input is just as essential as anyone else's. --Moni3 (talk) 03:53, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

References[edit]

Planning for dabs[edit]

Several other MOBA exist to sort through including:

Not sure how these should be presented (or when).LeadSongDog (talk) 16:55, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Disambiguation pages are not my forte. Anyone want to start a MOBA disambig page? --Moni3 (talk) 16:57, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
i remember reading somewhere that the Museum of Biblical Art was angry with the Museum of Bad Art becasue the Bad Art establishment used the acronym MOBA and they couldn't.... ill try to find where i read that.--Found5dollar (talk) 18:36, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

pulbications section?[edit]

is there a need for a section on the museums publications? they have put out two books and a CD-ROM virtural Museum.--Found5dollar (talk) 19:37, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, is it redundant since the books are going to be listed in the bibliography, and the website does the same as the CD-ROM? --Moni3 (talk) 19:49, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
thats why i was asking hehe. It could be redundant, but it seems like the way you just stated is alot of searching though an article that has already become very dense just to find out if MOBA has any books out. --Found5dollar (talk) 19:59, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Another thing.... shouldn't the bit about the stolen works be under "History"? I was about to move it, but wondered if there was a reason it was under "influences" instead. --Found5dollar (talk) 03:12, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

My initial reasoning is that some sad person was influenced enough by the art to want to steal it. I hope to be able to add more to the Infuences section. If I can, I'll move the theft info to History. --Moni3 (talk) 03:18, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

On sources[edit]

Ok, I am poring through a list of hundreds of publications that have featured MOBA in some way. About 90% of these entries are very short blurbs that say a lot less than what we already have. I would like to stay away from those right now, if we can. One major disadvantage to using primarily newspaper sources from so many different publications is the lack of consistency. Some of our facts are wrong, and above all, accuracy is what I'm most concerned with.

What I would like more of is any recognition that MOBA has influenced the public or larger art trends, as in the Influence section.

My library does not have the May 2006 issue of Boston Architecture. I would like to see if there is anything significant in there. Anyone have access to this? I get too interrupted throughout the day to be able to listen to all the radio sources. Is there anyone who can listen to about 4 or 5 radio sources for the article?

The information is still being shifted and processed. We may decide to move stuff around still. I'm waiting to get the books before expanding the section on the artistic commentary.

I would like to expand the lead a bit. We should probably start collecting the weirdest quotes that are not in the article for any prospective main page blurb. --Moni3 (talk) 21:49, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I have a publication called Architecture Boston -- all the Boston Architectures I'm finding in my library are books. Kafka Liz (talk) 21:54, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it's Architecture Boston, because my reading comprehension skillz are awesome. May 2006, an article titled "Pretty Ugly". --Moni3 (talk) 21:56, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
I'll see if I can't pick it up on my way home. If it's worth it, I'll make a scan to send you. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 22:00, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
(update) Got it now, though I haven't had a chance to read it yet. Kafka Liz (talk) 18:09, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Is it possible to scan and send to me? I can email you. Let me know, and thanks! --Moni3 (talk) 18:34, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Sure thing - just drop me a line. It's a short enough article, and you'll probably get more out of it than I would, since I'll not quite "up to speed" on this article yet. I won't be able to send it until tomorrow, though, because I haven't got a scanner at home, and the one at work looks to be tied up for the next few hours. :-/ Kafka Liz (talk) 20:42, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Lots of hits at Scholar to check out.LeadSongDog (talk) 02:53, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm a doofus because I forget about Google Scholar. I will check out these sources within the next couple of days. --Moni3 (talk) 03:00, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Also interesting is the wayback view of moba's old web presence in versions back to December 1, 1998. Note the change of url on April 8, 2004.LeadSongDog (talk) 03:27, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Anyone got free access to this source?:

Kaufman, Jason. "So Bad It’s Good: The Museum of Bad Art", Contexts. University of California Press. (November 2007) 6(4): 81-4. doi:10.1525/ctx.2007.6.4.81 Certainly looks promising.LeadSongDog (talk) 04:38, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Kaufman was included. Good stuff. --Moni3 (talk) 18:34, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Practice[edit]

Tonight I thought this was funny. Tomorrow I may not fee the same .--Moni3 (talk) 03:58, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

The Museum of Bad Art (MOBA), is a private art museum with two branches located in Dedham and ... wait a minute. Did someone paint that? My stars, that is the worst thing I have ever seen. Is that really a painting? Is she sitting? Half of her looks like she's dancing and the other half ... um. Somerville, Massachusetts. It was, ah, established in order to showcase ... Where is her left breast? I don't even think I want to know. Why would someone be seated in a big red chair in a field of flowers? Is she dancing in those monstrous orthopedic shoes? What? Oh! At any rate, MOBA was started in 1994 by an antiques dealer, who... Seriously, someone has got to tell me what is going on with that sky! Is she dancing in front of a nuclear apocalypse, while clutching a fistful of daisies with her inhuman vise grip? Is she Satan? Ok, hold on. I got it. I got it! .. The museum has strict standards for art they will accept: works must be... What are those behind her head? Birds? Military aircraft? What does all of this mean? Why am I hypnotized by the updraft in her skirt? (more….)

Sacco[edit]

I just realized the director's surname coincides with that of Ferdinando Nicola Sacco, tried and convicted at the nearby Norfolk County Courthouse in the infamous Sacco and Vanzetti trials. Can/should we source a connection?LeadSongDog (talk) 06:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

We would need a reliable source to connect them, and we would need several to ensure that the connection is relevant to the topic. So far, nothing I have read has done that. --Moni3 (talk) 13:04, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
We can easily source that Spencer Sacco, his grandson, was with Mass Governor Dukakis (sp?) in 1976 for the related proclamation. See for example:

Charles A. Zappia (January, 1996). "Review of Avrich, Paul, Anarchist Voices: An Oral History of Anarchism in America". H-Ethnic. H-Net Reviews.  Check date values in: |date= (help)

Not sure yet beyond that if the director is connected to him. The gallery is in the center of the historic district (listed in the National Register of Historic Places), which includes the courthouse (see googlemap with wikipedia annotation enabled). It borders on inconceivable that people in a small town like Dedham would be unaware of the historic case and it is a rather uncommon name. LeadSongDog (talk) 14:16, 4 March 2009 (UTC)