User talk:Nealmcb

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Useful places for me and fellow Wikipedians[edit]

WikiProject Cryptography[edit]

Hi there, welcome to WikiProject Cryptography! (An introduction: I'm Matt, I've been editing at Wikipedia for a couple of months, and my most detailed knowledge is about block ciphers, though I like to read/edit other stuff too.) If you have any thoughts on how we can improve cryptography articles, I'd be keen to hear them (we can put them in the "List of open tasks" section). — Matt 12:00, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, Matt, for organizing the project and getting people involved. I've been following crypto on and off since reading the RSA Technical Memo in 1977. I analyzed the PGP web of trust in 1996, and have helped organize the PKI R&D Workshop the last three years. NealMcB 18:38, 2004 May 24 (UTC)


Neal, We now have a formal discussion page for the TT issue, cypher v cipher. It's at the WikiProject Cryptography under discussions. I've taken the liberty of summarizing folks views on the question insofar as I know them under current standings. You might want to chime (or chyme) in there. ww 17:54, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

Finnegan "breakthrough"[edit]

Neal, Thanks for reverting the 'news'. I spent 20 minutes searching and couldn't turn up even a hint. Looks like sneaky vandalism, and some extended editing effort to do it, too. So thanks again.

And thanks for the line at treecat. It made the warning much more apparent. ww 17:39, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

WikiProject Cryptography mailshot[edit]

Hi, quick note to let you know about what's happening with the WikiReader in Cryptography. There's now a provisional Table of Contents to work with, and for the next 68 days or so there'll be an "Article of the Day" scheme: each day there'll be a particular article highlighted for reviewing and fixing. There's two templates for this purpose: Template:WikiReaderCryptographyAOTD and Template:WikiReaderCryptographyAOTD-Verbose. The smaller one looks like this:

WikiReader Cryptography — article of the day edit
Sunday, 24 July Playfair cipher (Talk) (History)
Monday, 25 July Message authentication code (Talk) (History)
Tuesday, 26 July Digital signature (Talk) (History)
Wednesday, 27 July Block cipher modes of operation (Talk) (History)
Thursday, 28 July Export of cryptography (Talk) (History)
Notes: If you find problems that you can't fix (or it's too much effort), it would be very helpful if you could place a note on the Talk: page. Articles need to be checked for 1) Accuracy (Factchecking: Are there any mistakes? Is the writing precise? Are sources cited?), 2) Completeness (Any obvious omissions? Does it need illustration?) 3) Quality of writing (Copyedits: Grammar and spelling, phrasing, structure) 4) Neutrality (Is it written from the NPOV? Do we document all relevant points of view?) — Thanks!
Clipboard.svgTo-do list for Digital signature edit
  • Describe cryptanalysis of digital signatures -- what are the various notions of security for a signature scheme?
  • Mention the common association of message encryption with digital signatures.
(See all to-do lists for this WikiReader)

These articles are likely to be some of the earliest English Wikipedia content to get turned into a print version, and any help in making them as good as possible would be much appreciated. Thanks! — Matt 01:51, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Something to read[edit]

Please consider reading this:

and then voting here:

-- orthogonal 18:23, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

New Mathematics Wikiportal[edit]

I noticed you've done some work on Mathematics articles. I wanted to point out to you the new Mathematics Wikiportal- more specifically, to the Mathematics Collaboration of the Week page. I'm looking for any math-related stubs or non-existant articles that you would like to see on Wikipedia. Additionally, I wondered if you'd be willing to help out on some of the Collaboration of the Week pages.

I encourage you to vote on the current Collaboration of the Week, because I'm very interested in which articles you think need to be written or added to, and because I understand that I cannot do the enormous amount of work required on some of the Math stubs alone. I'm asking for your help, and also your critiques on the way the portal is set up.

Please direct all comments to my user-talk page, the Math Wikiportal talk page, or the Math Collaboration of the Week talk page. Thanks a lot for your support! ral315 02:54, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

Getting Psychotherapy into This Week's Improvement Drive[edit]

Hi there! I noticed that at one time or another you helped contribute to the article on Psychotherapy. As it stands this article could use a lot of help, and thus I've taken the liberty of trying to get it to be the focus of a week's improvement drive. All we need to get it for a week's worth of focus and improvement is enough votes, so go to Psychotherapy's vote page and help out this very needing article! JoeSmack (talk) 18:16, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Phaeno Science Center[edit]

Please note two things from Wikipedia:Manual of Style: (1) The title phrase should be bolded at its first appearance, and (2) Don't use too many capital initial letters in section headings---in particular, it should say External links with a lower-case initial "L", not a capital. I fixed these problems in Phaeno Science Center and also in the section heading you added to The Wisdom of Crowds. Michael Hardy 00:23, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

...same two things at James Stoll; again I fixed them. Michael Hardy 00:25, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

...same thing with the See also heading; the a in also should be lower-case. I've fixed this in about a half-dozen article where you added "see also" sections. Michael Hardy 00:30, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, thanks, thanks, Michael. I often get to the point where after researching all the content, I'm tired and/or forget some of the details of editorial style. So I appreciate it when someone who is more up-to-date on such things helps out like this. --NealMcB 23:43, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Initial capitals for standard protocol names[edit]

JA: With regard to your message:

You changed the name of Border Gateway Protocol to Border gateway protocol. But the article is about a specific, named, standardized protocol which is always written with initial capitals. In accordance with the Wikipedia:Naming conventions It should be changed back, along with other similar articles. --NealMcB 05:16, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

JA: The way I read "most common usage" (MCU), it does not apply to orthography, and does not override local standards of orthography, as all sorts of people think that it's MCU to capitalize all of the major words in article headings, and then again we would have every condition in DSM being capitalized, for example, "Passive-Aggressive Personality Disorder", but we don't do the likes of that here in a host of similar cases. Jon Awbrey 05:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I (and others) disagree, as discussed in the Requested move discussions at Talk:Border gateway protocol. --NealMcB 18:23, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


Hi Neal - You're pretty clearly not a Wikipedia addict, but I was wondering if you might have any interest in becoming an administrator. If so, I'd be happy to nominate you (I've been one for nearly a year). -- Rick Block (talk) 14:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Howdy, Rick! Thanks for your hard work here, and the offer! From looking at RFA, it seems that many folks want more edits than I have. For now I'll stick to content. --NealMcB 18:42, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
OK. I won't really push it, but I think edit history dating from 2002-09-28 (!) provides ample evidence that you're not a troll. -- Rick Block (talk) 23:10, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

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Capitalization for Titles[edit]

Sorry my position was unclear. I say all of this in the full awareness that language is malleable and the product of group consensus. I'd just as soon not get bogged down in a debate about the sociology of linguistics. If you open any grammar book (Chicago, Harbrace, whatever) it tells you that titles for articles, books, whatever are capitalized in a particular way (barring exceptions for things like eBay or e.e. cummings). Ordinarily, you capitalize the first and last word of the title (regardless of whether they're direct articles or verbs) and any words in the body of the title that are important (typically the verbs and the nouns). I moved Criticism of Atheism to Critique of Atheism. Shortly thereafter, someone changed it to Critique of atheism and directed me to the naming conventions for Wikipedia, which state that only the first word of a title and Proper nouns are capitalized. Being someone who writes, is published, and works in a library, I found that convention to be amateurish. MerricMaker 19:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

RE:NASA Budget fraction of US budget, population effects[edit]

In response to your comments posted on the NASA Budget discussion page in March 2006, please visit the page at your first convenience once again and provide any additional comments or suggestions for improvement. Regards, ~JS~ WSpaceport 17:10, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks - the changes are helpful! Some lines in the graph would be even nicer, of course. --NealMcB 23:38, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind[edit] -Wafulz 17:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! I think I figured that interwiki syntax out later on, but forgot that I wanted to use it here. --NealMcB 17:25, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Polo Shirt[edit]

Mea Culpa, I thought I had moved the talkpage as well. Thanks for the note, I have fixed. (Preserving both edit histories) Brian | (Talk) 04:09, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Election Markup Language[edit]


This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Election Markup Language, and it appears to include a substantial copy of For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 21:59, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the well-presented tips. The text in question (one phrase) was marked as a quote, and the page I got it from was listed in the external links section. But now I've moved the citation to be a proper reference directly after the quote. --NealMcB (talk) 22:36, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Parliamentary Procedure[edit]

I just wanted to let you know about the formation of WikiProject Parliamentary Procedure. We hope to cover all the major motions and parliamentary procedure terms. You are welcome to join. Thanks, Obuibo Mbstpo (talk) 19:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


Thank you for your reversion of the vandalism on the Eye of Horus article. Please continue the great work. Sephiroth storm (talk) 14:08, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Internet Communications Engine - Advertisement ?[edit]

Internet Communications Engine How come ! This is free s/w. I am a software architect in the finance industry and use not only this product but also a set of others. I did not create the article; I have rebuilt most of it to describe important mechanism and concepts in the field of middleware. The article needs improvements, but it should not at all be subject for deletion. --Malin Randstrom (talk) 08:52, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

updated the article I have changed the article to be less advertisy Internet Communications Engine. What do u think? --Malin Randstrom (talk) 04:45, 1 February 2009 (UTC)?
I responded on the ICD talk page --NealMcB (talk) 00:27, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Replied to you on the ICE talk page. --Malin Randstrom (talk) 11:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Edits to EML page...[edit]

Heya Neal, I just wanted to point out that EML expert and extraordinaire David Webber has just made massive changes for the best to the EML page. Thanks for starting it... and may it grow. Joebeone (Talk) 23:40, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Regarding your post on the BLP RFC[edit]

Hey there. I saw this post of yours. If you would like to email me the article name, I'd be happy to take a look at it. I'd of course apply the same rules of confidentiality that I do when dealing with OTRS work. NW (Talk) 06:07, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for you offer. It all worked out fine in this case. Viewing this from the viewpoint of a particular "living person" gives me more respect for people's privacy and prompt me to ask more critically why any given person merits an article on Wikipedia, where messy things can happen to innocent people who deserve relative obscurity. --NealMcB (talk) 20:50, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

VLC and SHOUTcast[edit]

FYI - someone from VLC posted on Slashdot (not a reliable source, I know) that there's been a big misunderstanding and that they're going to 'reach out' to the VLC folks to get it resolved. It sounds to me like perhaps either serious backpedaling, or maybe just a case of the suits screwing up and the rank-and-file rushing in to fix it. Anyway, I hope you're keeping an eye out for news from reliable sources re: VLC's point of view.

Also, it's not clear from the edits you made what kind of SHOUTcast support has been removed. Is it no longer possible to listen to SHOUTcast streams in VLC, or did they just remove more advanced features like accessing the directory (SHOUTcast Radio) and/or creating a stream? Thanks. —mjb (talk) 20:28, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Journal of Physical Security[edit]

Ambox warning yellow.svg

The article Journal of Physical Security has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Irregularly appearing journal (4 issues produced since 2004) with only few articles published (and several of those not peer-reviewed). Apparently not indexed anywhere, does not even seem to have an ISSN. Does not meet WP:Notability (academic journals) or WP:GNG.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Crusio (talk) 04:51, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

I couldn't find much more to add, and guess that deletion is what the current policy calls for. But his makes me wonder whether the policy is overly restrictive. It is a highly important field, and this is the best source of information in it. Hopefully JPS will mature and we can revisit this then. Thanks, --NealMcB (talk) 20:58, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, this was unfortunate... we'll just have to see it published more frequently, I suppose. --Joebeone (Talk) 12:09, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
The Journal of Physical Security now has ISSN 2157-8443 and has come out 4 times in the last 2 years. Maybe time to resurrect the article? ★NealMcB★ (talk) 14:00, 29 August 2015 (UTC)


Sorry about pulling out worthy citations from NTLM. So much of it low quality, it was hard to find the good/relevant stuff.

Not to be argumentative, but I'm not apologetic for the freetard comments. I've donated time to a GNU project, and I know exactly how they operate.

Jeff (talk) 00:37, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Damn, forgot to log in before signing.
Jeff Noloader (talk) 00:40, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Pending changes/Straw poll on interim usage[edit]

Hi. As you recently commented in the straw poll regarding the ongoing usage and trial of Pending changes, this is to notify you that there is an interim straw poll with regard to keeping the tool switched on or switching it off while improvements are worked on and due for release on November 9, 2010. This new poll is only in regard to this issue and sets no precedent for any future usage. Your input on this issue is greatly appreciated. Off2riorob (talk) 23:42, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Web document[edit]

Web document is a old (2006) article and there are some relevant articles linking to it. Please help us to do a better article. --Krauss (talk) 15:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Invitation to join WikiProject United States[edit]

Flag of the United States.svg

Hello, Nealmcb! WikiProject United States, an outreach effort supporting development of United States related articles in Wikipedia, has recently been restarted after a long period of inactivity. As a user who has shown an interest in United States related topics we wanted to invite you to join us in developing content relating to the United States. If you are interested please add your Username and area of interest to the members page here. Thank you!!!

--Kumioko (talk) 03:58, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Colorado[edit]

The year 2011 has brought many changes to the State of Colorado. Several users have asked us to reactivate WikiProject Colorado. We have a new Governor and other state officers, two new U.S. Representatives, many new state legislators, and a new Mayor of Denver. Many articles about Colorado need to be updated and many Colorado places, people, and organizations need new articles. Portal:Colorado needs some new featured articles.

Can you help us? Please see our list of some requested articles. If you would like to remain an active member of WikiProject Colorado, please leave me a message at User talk:Buaidh or e-mail me at Special:EmailUser/Buaidh. If you cannot help right now, you can go to inactive status and then reactivate your status later. Thanks for any help you can provide. Yours aye,  Buaidh  17:22, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia 10th Anniversary Celebration[edit]

Don't forget the Wikipedia 10th Anniversary event in Boulder tomorrow. Yours aye,  Buaidh  22:18, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Neal[edit]

  • Hello from the Wikipedia Celebration. -- Scarpy (talk) 19:24, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Yeah, hi! It was fun! —Preceding signed comment added by Nicky Nouse (talkcontribswikia) 01:48, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
    • Thanks for helping out, folks! Sorry I didn't get to display your comment on the big screen. ★NealMcB★ (talk) 04:35, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Colorado Wiknic[edit]

All Wikipedians are cordially invited to the Colorado celebration of the 2011 Great American Wiknic on June 25. We will meet Saturday afternoon from 3:00 to 5:00 at the D Note, 7519 Grandview Avenue in Arvada. Please e-mail Jacques Delaguerre at Special:EmailUser/Jaxdelaguerre if you plan to attend. Be there or be square! –  Buaidh  22:06, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Fun party - thanks! Next time I hope we find a more quiet spot though. ★NealMcB★ (talk) 15:37, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion for WikiProject United States to support WikiProject Colorado[edit]

It was recently suggested that WikiProject Colorado, to which you are a member, may be inactive or semi-active and it might be beneficial to include it in the list of projects supported by WikiProject United States. After reviewing the project it appears that there haven't been much active discussion on the talk page in some time and the only content updates appear to be simple maintenance so being supported by a larger project might be beneficial. I have begun a discussion on the projects talk page to see how the members of the project feel about this suggestion. Another user has added the project to the WPUS template and I added it to the list of supported projects in the WPUS main project page but before I take any further action I wanted to contact each of the active members for their input. --Kumioko (talk) 23:36, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification[edit]

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Lockman Hole[edit]

It looks good to me. I always feel hesitant about removing tags, especially ones saying a page is too technical. This is mainly because I've had a couple of articles that I contributed to get tagged as too technical, even when I was trying not to. That said, I would support the removal of both tags. James McBride (talk) 16:22, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you[edit]

Modest Barnstar.png The Modest Barnstar
In recognition of all the work you’ve done lately! (talk) 13:49, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Great American Wiknic 2012[edit]

Want to organize something for the Great American Wiknic 2012? I've set up a page for Boulder --> Wikipedia:Meetup/Boulder/June 2012. -- Gaurav (talk) 03:13, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Ports[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Ports has been nominated for deletion. This template creates a floating portal linkbox. You are invited to comment on the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:Ports. Yours aye,  Buaidh  20:27, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Serious issue in bcrypt page?[edit]

Hi Neal! In Bcrypt which you edited, this fragment "(.. bcrypt computes..) a hash from a given input as follows: bcrypt(cost, salt, key, input)" suggests that the password is fed in input. But the intend in the original definition, and many implementations, is feeding password in key, with input a constant derived from "OrpheanBeholderScryDoubt" broken as three 64-bit blocks. Do you agree/disagree? I suggest a follow-up in Talk:Bcrypt if necessary. Fgrieu (talk) 12:50, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the alert. Looks like you've already fixed it - and that looks good, offhand. Cheers! ★NealMcB★ (talk) 17:32, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Terribly short notice: Boulder WLM on 15 September[edit]

Apologies for getting this out so late, but this is all Pharos' fault. Please blame everything on Pharos.

That said, this message is just to let you know that we're having a photo hunt for Wiki Loves Monuments at 11:00 in the morning of Saturday the 15th in Boulder, probably somewhere around CU, though the exact location hasn't yet been decided. Since you have previously attended or expressed interest in other meetups in the area, hopefully you might be able to come.

Please sign up as soon as possible if you're interested; we'd love to have you along to help postpone the squirrel apocalypse. Or at least get some decent images. -— Isarra 05:02, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Colorado wikipedian mailing list[edit]

This might be of interest. Meant to poke you before, but then I got attacked by a dragon. It was really big and stuff. -— Isarra 07:26, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks - looks good. Except for the 'poke' itself - save those for dragons, and only in self-defense :) ★NealMcB★ (talk) 14:12, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks to Isarra, this is now reality -- mail:Wikimedia-US-CO! -- Gaurav (talk) 07:33, 24 September 2012 (UTC)


Regarding Samsara (2011 film), the wording in the lead section is based on the "Critical reception" section, not the "Themes" section. RT reports that among the consensus, that narrative flaws have been mentioned. Erik (talk | contribs) 20:02, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

I assume by "RT" you mean "Rotten Tomatoes"? The section from them says 'Rotten Tomatoes gives the film a score of 72% based on reviews from 53 critics, and reports a rating average of 6.8 out of 10. It reports the critics' consensus, "It's a tad heavy-handed in its message, but Samsara's overwhelmingly beautiful visuals more than compensate for any narrative flaws."' That is very different than the lead section statement which I deleted, and you reinstated with a revert, saying "but felt that it lacked a particular message". That statement does come from the NY Times review mentioned in the Themes section, where it is more praise than criticism, and in contradiction to the RT "consensus" that the message is "heavy handed". So I think it would be better to again drop the text I deleted, and I can't think of something suitable for the lead section to say about the message - it's complicated and understanding it requires knowing more about the history. OK? ★NealMcB★ (talk) 20:19, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
You're right, the wording could be better. I was too focused on the last part of the RT consensus passage. I did a search engine test to see if there was another kind of meta-analysis but did not find anything useful. Maybe we can just quote Rotten Tomatoes in the lead section? And replace it with another overview whenever it comes along? Erik (talk | contribs) 13:47, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
I could live with that, but I'd still prefer leaving that out of the intro since the whole notion of "narrative flaws" in a movie without words seems distracting that early in the article. ★NealMcB★ (talk) 14:02, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
We could just leave the critical reception out of the lead section. I just think that only having the wording about the images is too positively slanted when the film was not quite that universally acclaimed. Erik (talk | contribs) 14:20, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
That seems ok, though the consensus on the images is very strong. Perhaps some mention of the overall numerical ratings/reception combined with a statement on the images? ★NealMcB★ (talk) 15:58, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia Meetup in Boulder this Saturday![edit]

Hello! I just wanted to make sure you knew about the Boulder Wikipedia meetup this Saturday at the Southern Sun. Hope to see you there! -- Gaurav (talk) 05:59, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks - I'll be there to see you off! ★NealMcB★ (talk) 15:41, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
WOOHOO! :-D! -- Gaurav (talk) 16:02, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Sea slug[edit]

You beat me to the punch with this edit. I had the same thing in mind. Nice going. —Steve98052 (talk) 01:53, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Finding the right wording for that one is tricky.... I love connecting the news with wikipedia, especially science news. ★NealMcB★ (talk) 02:01, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia Wiknic 2013[edit]

Are you coming for the Wiknic in Aurora next month? Wikipedia:Meetup/Colorado/Wiknic/2013 -- if not, we should organize something in Boulder before and/or after! -- Gaurav (talk) 22:10, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
Looks good, but there is another event that morning - I'll see.... Thanks for the heads up! Something in Boulder would be fun also. ★NealMcB★ (talk) 15:10, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia Meetup in Boulder this Saturday![edit]

Hi Neal! We're thinking about a photohunt in Denver this weekend, but the response has been ... lacklustre so far. Would you be interested if we shifted the venue to Boulder instead? -- Gaurav (talk) 06:40, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi, Gaurav! I've been following the discussion on, but I'm overloaded already from teaching this semester, along with a lot of other stuff, so I doubt it. ★NealMcB★ (talk) 13:23, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
Aw, shucks. We'll miss you! -- Gaurav (talk) 00:57, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

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Test alternate doi for fmri page[edit]

Bennett, C. M.; Miller, M. B.; Wolford, G. L. (2009). "Neural correlates of interspecies perspective taking in the post-mortem Atlantic Salmon: An argument for multiple comparisons correction" (PDF). NeuroImage 47: S125. doi:10.1016/S1053-8119(09)71202-9.  edit

Sortition/demarchy merger[edit]

I see no consensus in two votes for and two votes against/doubtful. I would have voted against if I knew there would be a snap decision like this made out of nowhere. Considering the lack of interest in the merger proposal over a couple years now it seemed unnecessary. Is it really wise to go ahead and merge an article like this without clear interest and clear consensus or even a warning? --Shabidoo | Talk 20:47, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry you didn't get your opinion in earlier. But it was not a hasty decision - the proposal has been out there for years, and something needed to be done. There was significant activity in 2014 which seemed to be enough consensus to me, especially after some more investigation. There were four votes to merge (fela Winkelmolen, Rpm2004, vagary (who preferred to merge the other way), and nealmcb, and two opposed (Mikedonovan2011 and 138.251). It was a bit confusing since Rpm2004 agreed with "winkelmolen", which is a different name for fela. It seems clear that the term "demarchy" is ill-defined, whereas sortition has a long, clearer history. Most of the links to Demarchy that I reviewed were about sortition. We clearly needed some sort of change since having a Merge proposal up on both pages, which are mostly duplication, for years doesn't help the encyclopedia. I doubt that today an article that tried to focus on just Demarchy (i.e. the various divergent meanings of it from Hayek, Burnheim etc) without the more well-established material on random selection as a general procedure for a variety of decision-making circumstances, it wouldn't be considered notable, but someone could try. But having two articles both talking about random selection clearly seems wrong to me. Mostly it seemed to me that no one had taken the time to dig in and do the merge. ★NealMcB★ (talk) 21:14, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Sorry but I don't understand how you can read six votes on a merge request that only has five votes. One of the votes was based on a distaste of headers and the user admitted that they hadn't even read the articles. Liking or not liking headers should never dictate whether to go ahead and ignore policy and merge two articles after only 19 days of discussion (even if there have been rehashed proposals over several years or not). It's the strength of the arguments made in the discussion which counts rather than impatience. The fact that few people have bothered to participate anymore in these so far unsuccessful merger discussions can just as easily point to editors seeing it as a waste of time. You'll note that I myself said that I don't think they should be merged in a comment just above the merger proposal on the talk page and that users have spent a considerable amount of time recently in 2014 trying to improve it which I see was a waste of time. There are countless examples of pages which talk about similar subjects but cover them from different angles. Sortition covers the random selection of members or representatives for a variety of purposes while demarchy is a form of government where a form of sortition is used. That's not the same thing . The merged article doesn't even include a subsection on demarchy. I looked up the stats of article visits which show about 4000 visits per month to demarchy and about 5000 to sortition. There is clearly no small amount of reader who want particular information about demarchy and will probably be rather confused in their attempt to find it now burried in the sortition article. --Shabidoo | Talk 13:43, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
The discussion (at was started on 2012-12-08, over 2 years ago. Discussion has mostly taken place in 2014, in April, July, August, October and December. Perhaps in counting 19 days you misread the start of the discussion (and header tagging) as 2014? Which of the 6 votes which I identified do you not consider a vote? Given that there were more people in favor of a merge than not, and the vast duplication between the pages, it seems to me that the thing that needed to happen was for someone to actually step forward and implement the merge, so I took it upon myself to do so. Declaring the merge proposal a failure would seem to be much worse, and it didn't seem likely to me that we'd get much more clarity by asking for help, but perhaps I was wrong. Most of the material in the Demarchy article was about sortition, and the rest reflected differing uses of the term by a very small set of writers with different opinions about what it meant. Everyone who click on a Demarchy link now will get the same information, in what seems to me to be a better-written and better-referenced form on the Sortition article. Does your view change given the understanding that this merge process has been ongoing for over 2 years? ★NealMcB★ (talk) 15:00, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

You are invited to the Great Colorado Wiknic 2015[edit]

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Don't forget the Colorado Wiknic this Sunday afternoon. We hope to see you there.  Buaidh  16:40, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
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Your submission at Articles for creation: Matrix (communication protocol) has been accepted[edit]

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Proposed deletion of World Intellectual Wealth Organisation[edit]

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ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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