User talk:Neonorange

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Re:2020 Football at the Olympics[edit]

I am sorry for reverting those. Sometimes I just jump to conclusions. Anyway, the redirect is actually a good idea looking at the article's history. The Ninja5 Empire (Talk) 04:14, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

List of African-American firsts (and Dave Benton)[edit]

I completely agree with you. I wanted to delete it myself, but from what I could see it predated the previous editor and I didn't feel like getting into a big thing. But I absolutely agree with your reasoning, and I would certainly support its removal. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:44, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Dave Benton[edit]

I do agree to an extent on Dave Benton, as the Eurovision Song Contest is a European event rather than an American event; However, he was also from Aruba and had lived in New York City for a time according to his page, so he could be considered an African-American and therefore be considered a first for an African-American. If I am wrong, correct me, but I do believe he should be on the list as it is a notable achievement in general to win that. --PootisHeavy (talk) 01:13, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Quoting from the lede of the list:

"The first achievements by African Americans in various fields historically marked footholds, often leading to more widespread cultural change. The shorthand phrase for this is "breaking the color barrier." (Juguo, Zhang (2001). W. E. B. Du Bois: The Quest for the Abolition of the Color Line. Routledge. ISBN 978-0-415-93087-1) and (Herbst, Philip H (1997). The Color of Words: An Encyclopaedic Dictionary of Ethnic Bias in the United States. Intercultural Press. p. 57. ISBN 978-1-877864-97-1)

This has a specific meaning in the U.S. because of institutionalized enslavement of Africans in the U.S. led to continued discrimination after the abolition of slavery and after the passage of various civil rights acts. Europe, in general, did not have institutionalized slavery of Africans, and certainly never had the extensive system that developed in the Southern United States. In Europe, some countries were colonizers, and developed barriers based on that type for national oppression. The "barriers" for African Americans in the U.S. are remnants of the institution of slavery. The requirement for inclusion in the list is that the accomplishment break a barrier to full participation for African Americans in the U.S. Winning the Eurovison Contest does not materially affect barriers in the U.S. If you scan the entries in this list you'll find that all of the entries are either accomplishments in the U.S. or by Olympians who are members of a U.S. team (see Jesse Owens). As far as Dave Benton, the question of whether or not he is an African American does not arise. According to his Wikipedia article, he spent perhaps twenty years in the U.S. after his twentieth birthday. The article does not characterize his nationality—he'd be the best source.
I'm not trying to plead American exceotionalism here, in the sense of a special mission. I am saying that institutionalized slavery of black Africans in the U.S., the formation of an African-American nationality in the U.S., and the continuing barriers to full participation do make this list exceptional.
If you'd like to continue this discussion, my I suggest that it all be moved to your talk page, my talk page, or the article talk page? — Neonorange (talk) 02:30, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
Firstly, if there is any continued discussion, then it'd preferably be here, but importantly, I was just wondering why Mr. Benton was removed from the page. Thank you for the answer! --PootisHeavy (talk) 04:07, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
The U.S. component is critical, since an African-American doing something first in Sweden or in France isn't bucking the institutionalized barriers created by American slavery. --Tenebrae (talk) 14:31, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

Scale of justice 2.svg Hello, Neonorange. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer - RfC[edit]

Hi Neonorange. You are invited to comment at a further discussion on the implementation of this user right to patrol and review new pages that is taking place at Wikipedia:New pages patrol/RfC on patrolling without user right. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:35, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Just want to say...[edit]

...that this is beautiful phrasing you used at that anon IP's 3RR report — you spoke with understanding and you were explicative and to-the-point yet diplomatic. "It would be impossible without the policies and guidelines for so many people to work together. You can turn this into a good learning experience and pathway to helping build the world's largest and most consulted encyclopedia."

I hope you don't mind if I use it or a variant in the rare instances where this needs to be explained. I literally could not have put it better myself. With great regards, --Tenebrae (talk) 17:20, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. I'd like to more actively contribute to Wikipedia, and plan to gather explanations of Wikipedia mores and policies from editors I respect. I hope you'll allow me the use of your words also. — Phil — Neonorange (talk) 20:43, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Season's Greetings![edit]

Second Life Museum of Nuclear Warfare[edit]


This museum is an experiment designed to test the functionality and practicality of the virtual world as an educational platform. Also show promise in paving the way for accessible museum environments designed to cater to individuals with physical disabilities. I invite you to visit it in the Second Life Virtual World. (

Thanks so much for your interest in our institution! :) Otaku155 (talk) 08:32, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia appreciates your edits that help to build an encyclopedia. However, adding an experiment at Second Life Virtual World seems to be promotional, not encyclopedic content. The citation you give does not point to the subject, just the home page of the project. Encyclopedic content must be verifiable and the sources must be independent. You use the phrase "Thanks so much for your interest in our institution!" This phrase implies that you have a connection with the project, and have a conflict of interest. Please read WP:COI. — Neonorange (talk) 08:53, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
WP:COI states that COI is an assessment of the situation, and has no bearing on the integrity of the individual making the contribution. The institution is real and the information added to the article is truthful; should this not resolve the matter? I am asking this question with the goal in mind of making wiki content better for everyone. :) Otaku155 (talk) 18:14, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
The opening paragraphs of the guideline WP:COI state
Conflict of interest (COI) editing involves contributing to Wikipedia about yourself, family, friends, clients, employers, or your financial and other relationships. Any external relationship can trigger a conflict of interest.[a] That someone has a conflict of interest is a description of a situation, not a judgment about that person's opinions or integrity.[b]
COI editing is strongly discouraged on Wikipedia. It undermines public confidence, and risks causing public embarrassment to the individuals being promoted. If such editing causes disruption, an administrator may opt to place blocks on the involved accounts.
I do not think I can explain the guideline any better. You yourself repeated a statement from this section. It is a judgement of the situation, not of you. Please recognize this. Wikipedia is a collaborative process involving thousands of editors, most of whom never meet face-to-face. This means certain principles, guidelines, and policies are necessary to build a pleasant working environment in which to build a reliable encyclopedia build by editors who have no COIs. It appears that you do have a connection with the virtual museums for which you advocate. Wikipedia is not a place for advocacy. — Neonorange (talk) 22:49, 8 January 2017 (UTC)


If you believe that Cynulliad3 is related to Motivação, and the evidence is strong enough, you might want to open an SPI. Thanks, GABgab 18:04, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

GeneralizationsAreBad, thanks for the note. I'd noticed the similarities for several days—you did the heavy lifting. — Neonorange (talk) 03:38, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 20[edit]

Wikipedia Library owl.svg The Wikipedia Library


Books & Bytes
Issue 20, November-December 2016
by Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs), Samwalton9 (talk · contribs)

  • Partner resource expansions
  • New search tool for finding TWL resources
  • #1lib1ref 2017
  • Wikidata Visiting Scholar

Read the full newsletter

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:00, 18 January 2017 (UTC)


Have you seen this one (History of computing hardware)? I haven't read much of it yet, but thought of you. Randy Kryn 13:05, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Bill Belichick[edit]

My understanding is that when listing a high school for an individual, the last school attended applies. Phillips was a high school, and he attended, specifically as a high school, in hopes of improving his college chances. That makes Phillips his final high school. The fact that he'd attended (and graduated) from another high school earlier does not change the fact that his final high school was Phillips. Tarl N. (discuss) 06:40, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Tarl, it's an interesting question. I had just earlier in the day reviewed a pending change that replaced Andover with Annapolis, accepting the change. Here's my thinking:
  • What is the intention of the 'High school' parameter in Template:Infobox NFL biography? My conclusion is that the intention is to show the it as part of the playing career of the subject. It doesn't make sense to show the high school that prominently for the academic information.
  • Andover (in the Wikipedia article, anyway) is described with "is a co-educational university-preparatory school for boarding and day students in grades 9–12, along with a post-graduate (PG) year." My assumption is that Belichick's high school is the four years leading to a high school diploma. His year at Andover had the purpose of getting into more selective college that his grades from Annapolis H.S. would have allowed.
  • Belichick NFL career is entirely as a coach, not a player.
  • Best solution—eliminate the 'High school' parameter for this particular biographical article, it isn't meaningful in the context of his career.
  • I'm pretty sure I don't want to dig any deeper, and I'm fine with whatever you may decide. — Neonorange (Phil) 12:54, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
I'm good with your best solution. I agree it's not meaningful, and this avoids the perpetual back-and-forth on it. I'll do that later today (have to rush out right now). Tarl N. (discuss) 16:59, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Neonorange/global.js[edit]

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice that the page you created, Neonorange/global.js, was tagged as a test page under section G2 of the criteria for speedy deletion and has been or soon may be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Kevin12xd 11:20, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

The page was a .js file for use with META:TemplateScript; I forgot to place 'User:' before 'Neonorange/global.js'. It wasn't a test page, just a misnamed page which caused it to appear in the wrong name space. I've moved the page to the correct namespace. (You might want to avoid canned notifications—or better yet, recognize java script). Any way, your notification let me correct my error mor quickly than otherwise. — Neonorange (talk) 12:23, 25 March 2017 (UTC)



You reverted on of my edits that I am working at User:CaroleHenson/sandbox2 - due to an unhappy editor who was going and removing all of her added images, some of which has been worked by other editors to be formatted correctly.

Your edit], reverting my clean-up is fine, though. I won't change it. I just wanted to let you know what's going on. I'm not the blocked user.–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:09, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

CaroleHenson: yes I just read the train wreck at elisa.rolle's talk page, but after reverting your edit to remove the image. It's good of you to work on fitting each each image in harmony with the rest of the layout. The initial edit placing the building image in the Hemingway article was, I thought, problematic—too bright and sunny for the overall graphic tone, and too large. Especially since the section heading was 'Idaho and suicide'. The caption bothered me too. I Googled the address and found [Hemingway's rental just sold]. I did not feel strongly enough to open a discussion with the editor who had made the image, so I saw a chance to quietly delete. Which I did, without looking at new version that does work. — Neonorange (Phil) 18:12, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
CaroleHenson (attempt to get a ping) — Neonorange (Phil) 18:23, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
Hi, thanks! It's all good. I hadn't thought of the image looking too sunny.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:24, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 21[edit]

Wikipedia Library owl.svg The Wikipedia Library


Books & Bytes
Issue 21, January-March 2017
by Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs), Samwalton9 (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

  • #1lib1ref 2017
  • Wikipedia Library User Group
  • Wikipedia + Libraries at Wikimedia Conference 2017
  • Spotlight: Library Card Platform

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:54, 6 April 2017 (UTC)


Thanks, though I only just noticed it as you broke the notification. For it to work you have to include it at the same time as signing; if it’s broken and you re-do it you have to sign again. Seems odd, but the notification system uses on the signature to fill in the 'who mentioned' bit of a notification.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 21:52, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 22[edit]

Wikipedia Library owl.svg The Wikipedia Library


Books & Bytes
Issue 22, April-May 2017

  • New and expanded research accounts
  • Global branches update
  • Spotlight: OCLC Partnership
  • Bytes in brief

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:35, 20 June 2017 (UTC)


I'm new to all this, can you please tell me how I can use a source to back up my information?Slug like you (talk) 19:58, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Growing storms[edit]

Hello Neonorange,

You are correct in assuming that I forgot that I had a previous Wikipedia ID and created a new one. When the librarian created my page she asked me to check some entries she'd made and it is true that I made changes. At the time, I was unaware that people were not supposed to make changes to their own pages. When I found that out, I never did it again. That's why it lingered with incomplete information for so long. That is also why I never tried to hide my identity by creating some fake ID. But the larger question here is, why does this John person have the right to block perfectly legitimate entries by perfectly legitimate people?

Janna — Preceding unsigned comment added by JannaMc (talkcontribs) 16:48, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

It is quite all right—even customary—for a Wikipedia editor to use a pseudonym.
  • A pseudonym protects identity better than a bare IP address that reveals the general location from which an user edits.
  • Some editors wish to protect their real-life identity for work or other reasons.
  • Content in Wikipedia articles is justified by quality of expression and strength of supporting references, not by subject expertise, so a name isn't important.
  • Even if an editor begins to edit with a pseudonym, it is always possible, at their choice, to link to their real-life identity (though the reverse is rarely possible). I am, after three or four years of activity, beginning to my real name given name in addition to my pseudonym.
It is quite easy for a user to contribute to a Wikipedia article in a way that avoids conflict of interest. For you, in the particular case of this article, just make a request for an edit on the article's talk page, being as specific as possible—even pointing out reference material and citations.
Wikipedia has a huge kettle of policies and guidelines that seem to be necessary for an all volunteer organization producing the world's most accessed encyclopedia. I think the best way I can help is by example at first and then by pointing to the most useful policies and guide lines if necessary. I will read the recent activity on the article and then place on your first talk page and your second talk page an example of a requested edit that you can use either as is or as a guide for your own request.
I'd like to make a suggestion—having two or more Wikipedia user accounts is permissible, but cross-linking the accounts is a good idea. All that is necessary is to place User:JannaMc is a legitimate alternative account of User:JannaMcMahan on the user page for JannaMcMahan and User:JannaMcMahan is a legitimate alternative account of User:JannaMc on the user page for JannaMc. Some editors may hide multiple accounts so as to weigh in on discussions as if more than one editor were supporting a position. As you can see, since Wikipedia has tens of thousands of editors who rarely meet face-to-face, some guidelines and policies are necessary that are not immediately obvious. I've tried to make this reply as straightforward as possible. I'm sure I've failed—concision wars with unambiguity. I hope that I've eased your concerns, and that you might even contribute material on other subjects.
  • When you post on a talk page please sign the message with a space followed by four tildes ~~~~ (or you can click on the box, in the tool bar below the message editing window, containing four tildes).
  • You might wish to place a short "who I am" sentence on your user pages (which do not exist at the moment—that's why the links are red rather than blue. It is best, for now, to use a sentence or two that in plain words describe yourself as a novelist. The purpose of an editor's user page is to further their work as an editor here. On my user page I've included the countries where I've worked plus some useful tools. It is up to the editor to create their own page. Neonorange (Phil) 19:11, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Did you...[edit]

...plan to go to Wikimania? Randy Kryn (talk) 11:28, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Want to, yes. Plan to, no. Much as I wish to be more productive in the Wikipedia movement, Montreal is a bridge too far (and actual planning is involved B^(
Do you have plans?
The only trip I have planned is to Athens, Tennessee on August 21st for the solar eclipse. Atlanta is just shy of totality at 98% while Athens has 150 seconds. — Neonorange (talk) 13:59, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
Wikimania should be enjoyable, was hoping to see you and others there. Would like to see the full eclipse but won't, a friend and I were going to go but he fears the highway back-ups the media is warning people about (which should keep a good percentage off the highways), but I'd still suggest some leeway for massive traffic going towards the totality areas. You could grab a tent and go a couple days ahead of time if you're driving. Flying would work, but probably expensive on short notice. I hope all is well with you and yours. Randy Kryn (talk) 16:18, 9 August 2017 (UTC)