User talk:Neonorange

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Hindenburg logotype[edit]

hello Neonorange, thank you for your edits/comments. I updated the logotype based on the images here -->

Maybe one of those photos would be a better add to the page?

I'm building my own model Hindenburg and wanted a graphic that would be authentic. I created the logotype svg graphic because the prior one on the page was abysmally poor (it looked to be a photo of a decal applied to a model kit). The version now very close (imho), but as you said, it's admittedly not 100% accurate because it's a recreation.

I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks. SK — Preceding unsigned comment added by SistineKid (talkcontribs) 03:19, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

SistineKid, thanks for you note—it is a model for the collaborative nature Wikipedia should embody. I looked at the images at the link you posted. The first image (Georg Wagners Entwurf für den Hindenburg-Schriftzug) would be ideal since it combines several types of information (designing the logotype, producing a guide for painting the airship's name, a step in construction). The image would, of course, need to have no copyright restrictions. There are Wikipedians who have great skill in copyright clearances—you or I could ask for help. Another idea for illustration could be an image of an advertisement (flyer, newspaper, magazine) or ticket that shows the logo. That would have multiple advantages—relatively high resolution, accurate depiction of the logo, image of an artifact associated with the airship.
Please post an image of your Hindenburg on your talk page! Phil — Neonorange (talk) 15:54, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
PS When you post on a talk page, add four ~ in a row (no spaces) and your message will be automatically signed and date; also,, your IP address will not be exposed. P — Neonorange (talk) 15:54, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Books & Bytes - Issue 17[edit]

Wikipedia Library owl.svg The Wikipedia Library


Books & Bytes
Issue 17, April-May 2016
by The Interior, Ocaasi, UY Scuti, Sadads, and Nikkimaria

  • New donations this month - a German-language legal resource
  • Wikipedia referals to academic citations - news from CrossRef and WikiCite2016
  • New library stats, WikiCon news, a bot to reveal Open Access versions of citations, and more!

Read the full newsletter

The Interior via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:36, 16 June 2016 (UTC)


Hi, I wanted to stop by and thank you for pulling curating duty on Hemingway in my absence. I haven't fully decided whether or not to return to editing (I'm enjoying being gone too much!), but I have finally managed to take a look at the article and see that it's disintegrated a lot. In fairness, it's been deteriorating for a while, but it seems to me that there have been a lot of changes since I had to stop editing. I'm considering a full rewrite and wouldn't refuse any help or suggestions you might have. Victoria (tk) 02:21, 18 June 2016 (UTC) P.s - I've pulled out a lot of material added since I stopped editing, and wondered if you could have a look at the edits I've made there, just to have another opinion. The material I removed was based on sourcing issues (not up to standard with FA sourcing for such an article), or because I thought it material not necessarily germane to the biography, better for the subarticles and to link into the biography. I'm hoping there won't be complaints on the talk page. Victoria (tk) 03:20, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Victoria, thank you for your generous note. I will pay close attention to your suggestions. I will enjoy watching your rewrite, and hope to make some minor contributions.
I have watched the internal processes of Wikipedia the past few months—and language has eaten itself comes to mind. Thank you for continuing to contribute. — Neonorange (talk) 15:23, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! I'm in and out, more out that in these days, so it will be a very slow rewrite. Victoria (tk) 23:47, 18 June 2016 (UTC)


The comma wars have come to the main Martin Luther King, Jr. talk page. Interesting Hemingway discussion above, I'll check it out. Randy Kryn 12:10, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Langston Hughes other media[edit]


Thanks for taking the time to review my addition to the Langston Hughes page concerning "Harlem Mosaics." As I mentioned in the talk section, I am the author of the novel, and wanted to make that clear from the outset. If it is against Wikipedia policy to put up mention of one's own work, then I am happy to offer my apologies and leave it at that.

However, if I can make a case for the novel's cultural legitimacy despite the unfortunate lack of professional reviews (as you can imagine, it's very difficult to get professional reviews for a self-published novel about the Harlem Renaissance), I'd at least like to try. The first case I'd make for it is that my novel has a preface by Marc Primus, who knew Hughes and Hurston personally, and has even been invited by National Public Radio in New York City to speak on the very theme which my novel concerns. See the following links: and

Futhermore, I was invited to speak about the subject and do a reading by the very well established Eatonville, Restaurant (Now Mulebone Restaurant) in Washington, DC:

Thirdly, I was asked to do a reading of the novel by the very well established German-American Center in Stuttgart, Germany this past spring for their "American Days" festival:

Therefore, while I understand your concerns, I do think -- or at least hope -- that mention of my work has some cultural value beyond pure self-promotion.

Thanks again for your time,

Whit — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whitfrazier (talkcontribs) 16:46, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Books & Bytes - Issue 18[edit]

Wikipedia Library owl.svg The Wikipedia Library


Books & Bytes
Issue 18, June–July 2016
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi, Samwalton9, UY Scuti, and Sadads

  • New donations - Edinburgh University Press, American Psychological Association, Nomos (a German-language database), and more!
  • Spotlight: GLAM and Wikidata
  • TWL attends and presents at International Federation of Library Associations conference, meets with Association of Research Libraries
  • OCLC wins grant to train librarians on Wikimedia contribution

Read the full newsletter

The Interior via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:25, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 9 September[edit]

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RfC for page patroller qualifications[edit]

Following up from the consensus reached here, the community will now establish the user right criteria. You may wish to participate in this discussion. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:55, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Rollback granted[edit]

Wikipedia Rollbacker.svg

Hi Neonorange. After reviewing your request for "rollbacker", I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback:

  • Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
  • Rollback should be used to revert clear cases of vandalism only, and not good faith edits.
  • Rollback should never be used to edit war.
  • If abused, rollback rights can be revoked.
  • Use common sense.

If you no longer want rollback, contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some more information on how to use rollback, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback (even though you're not an admin). I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, but feel free to leave me a message on my talk page if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of rollback. Thank you for helping to reduce vandalism. Happy editing! ~ Rob13Talk 14:13, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Jack London[edit]

Hi Neonorange. [I lost the original composition of this text, due to an internet break, so this is a reconstitution, not as 'perfect' as the original]

I was tempted to ignore your message and the whole issue as I feel that when one seeks dialogue you enter into it with sincere intent, but not by first reverting. Having first reverted already tells me that this is the version that you want to prevail. But that is now closed, it could have been an honest oversight, we are all guilty or victim of those from time to time, so, no hard feelings.

To the matter at hand, firstly, this is not a defence of a specific position, it is more on an illustrative text on the difficulties of defining what is a short story. There is no definite rule to define what constitutes a short story. There are a number of elements and characterists that in various combinations are used in an attempt to define boundaries between the different lengths of prose fiction and based on those to build up a corpus of (non-fiction) work, critique, studies etc. to describe the short story as a genre. As this set of parameters evolves, so newer short stories tend to converge towards the mean, contributing to a clearer separation between the short story and the novel. However, the two often still conflate or straddle whatever boundaries there are. Which forces any attempts at categorisation to rely on arbitrary conventions, often nuanced and entertaining exceptions on various grounds or even 'creating' new categories when a work resists pigeon-holing, such as The Old Man and the Sea, described here in the Wikipedia as a "short novel", albeit that a category for works loosely falling between a short story and a novel — the novella — exists. Franz Kafka's The Metamorphosis and The Death of Ivan Ilyich are described as novellas. On the other hand, Billy Budd is described here in the Wikipedia as a short novel, a novella and a novel. Interestingly, I Heard the Owl Call My Name is here and there on the internet called a novel, but in most cases referred to simply as "a book" by Margaret Craven. St Mawr and The Virgin and the Gypsy are both described here as "a short novel (or novella)"

The convention of resorting to inverted commas to differentiate between the two genres arises from the need to distinguish between titles and secondary titles when a work encloses smaller sub-units, such as in anthologies. Examples would be Goodbye, Columbus, by Philip Roth, containing — besides the eponymous tale — the short stories "Defender of the Faith", "The Conversion of the Jews", "Epstein", etc.. Therefore, works such as Goodbye, Columbus and The Country of the Blind and Other Stories would contain individual stories called "Goodbye, Columbus" and "The Country of the Blind".

Given the above exposition, I changed the titles from "Title of Book" to Title of Book because they are independent works, published on their own, not anthologies, not reprints of serialised works in newpapers. If my interpretation is wrong, then I have no problem accpeting it. I would however, for my own edification, welcome additional voices if you can rally such, to come to bear on this discussion.

Regards and looking forward to future rewarding collaboration, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 13:43, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 19[edit]

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Books & Bytes
Issue 19, September–October 2016
by Nikkimaria, Sadads and UY Scuti

  • New and expanded donations - Foreign Affairs, Open Edition, and many more
  • New Library Card Platform and Conference news
  • Spotlight: Fixing one million broken links

Read the full newsletter

19:07, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Re:2020 Football at the Olympics[edit]

I am sorry for reverting those. Sometimes I just jump to conclusions. Anyway, the redirect is actually a good idea looking at the article's history. The Ninja5 Empire (Talk) 04:14, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

List of African-American firsts (and Dave Benton)[edit]

I completely agree with you. I wanted to delete it myself, but from what I could see it predated the previous editor and I didn't feel like getting into a big thing. But I absolutely agree with your reasoning, and I would certainly support its removal. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:44, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Dave Benton[edit]

I do agree to an extent on Dave Benton, as the Eurovision Song Contest is a European event rather than an American event; However, he was also from Aruba and had lived in New York City for a time according to his page, so he could be considered an African-American and therefore be considered a first for an African-American. If I am wrong, correct me, but I do believe he should be on the list as it is a notable achievement in general to win that. --PootisHeavy (talk) 01:13, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Quoting from the lede of the list:

"The first achievements by African Americans in various fields historically marked footholds, often leading to more widespread cultural change. The shorthand phrase for this is "breaking the color barrier." (Juguo, Zhang (2001). W. E. B. Du Bois: The Quest for the Abolition of the Color Line. Routledge. ISBN 978-0-415-93087-1) and (Herbst, Philip H (1997). The Color of Words: An Encyclopaedic Dictionary of Ethnic Bias in the United States. Intercultural Press. p. 57. ISBN 978-1-877864-97-1)

This has a specific meaning in the U.S. because of institutionalized enslavement of Africans in the U.S. led to continued discrimination after the abolition of slavery and after the passage of various civil rights acts. Europe, in general, did not have institutionalized slavery of Africans, and certainly never had the extensive system that developed in the Southern United States. In Europe, some countries were colonizers, and developed barriers based on that type for national oppression. The "barriers" for African Americans in the U.S. are remnants of the institution of slavery. The requirement for inclusion in the list is that the accomplishment break a barrier to full participation for African Americans in the U.S. Winning the Eurovison Contest does not materially affect barriers in the U.S. If you scan the entries in this list you'll find that all of the entries are either accomplishments in the U.S. or by Olympians who are members of a U.S. team (see Jesse Owens). As far as Dave Benton, the question of whether or not he is an African American does not arise. According to his Wikipedia article, he spent perhaps twenty years in the U.S. after his twentieth birthday. The article does not characterize his nationality—he'd be the best source.
I'm not trying to plead American exceotionalism here, in the sense of a special mission. I am saying that institutionalized slavery of black Africans in the U.S., the formation of an African-American nationality in the U.S., and the continuing barriers to full participation do make this list exceptional.
If you'd like to continue this discussion, my I suggest that it all be moved to your talk page, my talk page, or the article talk page? — Neonorange (talk) 02:30, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
Firstly, if there is any continued discussion, then it'd preferably be here, but importantly, I was just wondering why Mr. Benton was removed from the page. Thank you for the answer! --PootisHeavy (talk) 04:07, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
The U.S. component is critical, since an African-American doing something first in Sweden or in France isn't bucking the institutionalized barriers created by American slavery. --Tenebrae (talk) 14:31, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

Scale of justice 2.svg Hello, Neonorange. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer - RfC[edit]

Hi Neonorange. You are invited to comment at a further discussion on the implementation of this user right to patrol and review new pages that is taking place at Wikipedia:New pages patrol/RfC on patrolling without user right. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:35, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Just want to say...[edit]

...that this is beautiful phrasing you used at that anon IP's 3RR report — you spoke with understanding and you were explicative and to-the-point yet diplomatic. "It would be impossible without the policies and guidelines for so many people to work together. You can turn this into a good learning experience and pathway to helping build the world's largest and most consulted encyclopedia."

I hope you don't mind if I use it or a variant in the rare instances where this needs to be explained. I literally could not have put it better myself. With great regards, --Tenebrae (talk) 17:20, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. I'd like to more actively contribute to Wikipedia, and plan to gather explanations of Wikipedia mores and policies from editors I respect. I hope you'll allow me the use of your words also. — Phil — Neonorange (talk) 20:43, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Season's Greetings![edit]

Second Life Museum of Nuclear Warfare[edit]


This museum is an experiment designed to test the functionality and practicality of the virtual world as an educational platform. Also show promise in paving the way for accessible museum environments designed to cater to individuals with physical disabilities. I invite you to visit it in the Second Life Virtual World. (

Thanks so much for your interest in our institution! :) Otaku155 (talk) 08:32, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia appreciates your edits that help to build an encyclopedia. However, adding an experiment at Second Life Virtual World seems to be promotional, not encyclopedic content. The citation you give does not point to the subject, just the home page of the project. Encyclopedic content must be verifiable and the sources must be independent. You use the phrase "Thanks so much for your interest in our institution!" This phrase implies that you have a connection with the project, and have a conflict of interest. Please read WP:COI. — Neonorange (talk) 08:53, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
WP:COI states that COI is an assessment of the situation, and has no bearing on the integrity of the individual making the contribution. The institution is real and the information added to the article is truthful; should this not resolve the matter? I am asking this question with the goal in mind of making wiki content better for everyone. :) Otaku155 (talk) 18:14, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
The opening paragraphs of the guideline WP:COI state
Conflict of interest (COI) editing involves contributing to Wikipedia about yourself, family, friends, clients, employers, or your financial and other relationships. Any external relationship can trigger a conflict of interest.[a] That someone has a conflict of interest is a description of a situation, not a judgment about that person's opinions or integrity.[b]
COI editing is strongly discouraged on Wikipedia. It undermines public confidence, and risks causing public embarrassment to the individuals being promoted. If such editing causes disruption, an administrator may opt to place blocks on the involved accounts.
I do not think I can explain the guideline any better. You yourself repeated a statement from this section. It is a judgement of the situation, not of you. Please recognize this. Wikipedia is a collaborative process involving thousands of editors, most of whom never meet face-to-face. This means certain principles, guidelines, and policies are necessary to build a pleasant working environment in which to build a reliable encyclopedia build by editors who have no COIs. It appears that you do have a connection with the virtual museums for which you advocate. Wikipedia is not a place for advocacy. — Neonorange (talk) 22:49, 8 January 2017 (UTC)


If you believe that Cynulliad3 is related to Motivação, and the evidence is strong enough, you might want to open an SPI. Thanks, GABgab 18:04, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

GeneralizationsAreBad, thanks for the note. I'd noticed the similarities for several days—you did the heavy lifting. — Neonorange (talk) 03:38, 16 January 2017 (UTC)